> It is not some crime to be skeptical about the Denver Nuggets defense holding up in the playoffs. Nikola Jokic is not a rim protector. (It is a crime — a basketball crime, anyway — to pretend as if Jokic has had less postseason success than Joel Embiid. Both have been centerpieces on undermanned teams which were dispatched in the first round — Jokic last season against the eventual champions; Embiid in the bubble against the Boston Celtics with Ben Simmons out. Jokic has reached one conference final; Embiid has never been that far. Jokic’s individual postseason numbers are better. None of this should matter in the MVP debate, but there appears to be a misconception in some corners that Jokic’s lack of postseason success should be held against him relative to Embiid.)
Best way to set up a post about Denver’s defense is to immediately bring up Embiid and trash him too, keep the sixers fans at bay
> The Nuggets try to scheme around that. Michael Malone has been much more creative varying up tactics — zones, more conservative dropback coverages, having guards duck screens against so-so shooters, even stashing Jokic on nonthreatening wings. (This toggling was overdue.)
> Jokic makes up for some of his limitations with steals, smart positioning, and sticky defensive rebounding. Denver’s defense is much stingier with Jokic on the floor.
> But Denver opponents have hit 71% at the rim — the second-worst figure among all defenses. That is a lot about Jokic. The Nuggets have gotten somewhat lucky with opponent jump-shooting. Their model is an elite offense carrying a just-good-enough defense. They can win it all that way, but they may be more vulnerable than better defensive teams to the luck of matchups.
> The Nuggets are more fundamentally sound on defense when they replace Porter with Bruce Brown alongside their other four starters; that is their closing lineup on lots of nights. But they are smaller, with less upside on offense.
Source: https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35820904/flaw-undo-lakers-dame-career-scoring-run-preposterous-bol-bol article includes clips too for reference. Pretty good read on how Denver’s helped cover for Jok’s weaknesses, even after starting the paragraph by trashing Embiid over nothing lol
by mastermind208
42 Comments
Holy shit stop
But fr what’s the best team Embiid has ever beaten in the playoffs? The Deangelo Russell Nets? The James Johnson Heat? The Scottie Barnes Raptors? The Russell Westbrook Wizards?
Zach Lowe is such a Jokic homer it’s not even funny, this is something you’d see someone with a Nuggets fan comment on Reddit, trying to bring Embiid up in this conversation to deflect criticism.
Both have 4 playoff series wins and no finals appearances. It’s not like Jokic has had significantly more success either
Who is claiming that Jokic has less postseason success than Embiid? Complete strawman from Zach
..and Embiid is a 0 time mvp / 1st team all NBA player and jokic is about to be a 3x mvp. Should we not be holding Jokic to a higher standard if he is clearly the better player in your eyes Zach?
This Jokic and Embiid MVP comparison is getting tiresome. Just give it to Kawhi and call it a day.
The entire playoff success conversation is absolutely nonsensical. Neither of them have had success. Getting a single round further ONCE really isn’t the flex some people think it is.
Nice strawman, no one associates Embiid with playoff success, people “hold it against Jokic” relative to Giannis
Honestly asking,
Does it really matter who made it to the conference finals? Cool, you made it but you didn’t make it out.
I personally don’t think it should be a talking point.
Media man meat munching before our eyes and we supposed to think Jokic isn’t getting babied to a 3rd MVP in a row
So…….in a discussion about Jokic’s defense as it relates to Embiid, he starts talking about playoff success? And they both have like, four series victories. I know Jokic went to the WCFs once but we really gonna act like that’s some massive difference between him and Joel?
Both have underperformed in the playoffs, different ways for different reasons, but both have underperformed. Both players and teams would tell you that. An MVP level player, which both obviously are, should be able to take their team to the Finals given enough time. I don’t think they are chokers or anything like that as they have plenty of time to change that, but to act like one should be happy with his postseason success while the other should be ashamed is so disingenuous I’m surprised this was written by an actual paid analyst and not a random r/NBA poster after a Sixers loss.
Just give it to Giannis to unite the Jokic and Embiid stans
Jokic has won a total of a single conference finals game.
They’re playoff records are very similar with embiid having the advantage.
Jokic has the more impressive series win between the 2 with the win over the Clippers which he deserves credit for.
But neither has accomplished anything remotely resembling playoff success especially for a 2x mvp
Lowe just can’t stand to see his GoldenBoy be criticized. It’s honestly hilarious at this point how fragile the Jokult is to any sort of criticism. He literally just turned a conversation about Jokic defense into criticizing Embiid. It’s unreal the way these guys work lmao
There is literally nothing in the world zach lowe loves more than arguing against a strawman jokic argument. Embiid is slandered on every platform every day for his lack of postseason success.
Last year he wouldn’t stoping preaching about how nobody was talking about jokic’s mvp case while he was the favorite. You can be a jokic fan without living ins fantasy world in which he is underrated or treated unfairly by the media.
Put Bubble Murray on the 2021 Sixers instead of Ben Simmons and they would have been in the finals
>Both have been centerpieces on undermanned teams which were dispatched in the first round — Jokic last season against the eventual champions; Embiid in the bubble against the Boston Celtics with Ben Simmons out. Jokic has reached one conference final; Embiid has never been that far. Jokic’s individual postseason numbers are better.
nah the dickriding is insane here… Let’s not mention that Jokic had Jamal Murray going nuclear, while the Ben Simmons you guys see in the today is the Ben Simmons we got in the second round every single year (ask Celtics, Raptors, and Hawks fans if you disagree). This only further shows that there’s a clear bias lol
Then why we ignore giannis he shitstomps jokic in postseason success and is a way better defender. This guy is SO biased towards jokic is not even funny.
I’m not going to hold the bubble Celtics (with no Simmons), Kawhi Raptors, or Heat last year against Embiid. Those were good teams.
But those losses against Atlanta and the baby Celtics are pretty bad.
Jokic has lost in the postseason to the Lakers (won), Warriors (won), Suns (made finals). So what’s his worst loss, the Blazers in 7 in his first playoffs with Jamal Murray and 33yo Millsap? He’s hardly had a lack of postseason success for the expectations for what they’ve put out on the floor.
Embiid losing to the Hawks and the 2018 Celtics is worse than any postseason Jokic has had so far. I don’t think this is a particularly hot take.
If Jokic loses in the second round to like the Suns/Warriors/Clippers and Embiid finally gets over the hump and beats the Celtics or Bucks to get to the conference finals, sure we can have a discussion about it.
What is he talking about
No one uses that argument. Also what does that have to do with Denver’s postseason defense? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Yall remember when “China” Dwight Howard was absolutely abusing Jokic on the boards and in the paint in 2020?
Pepperidge farm remembers
lmao lowe always excused embiid in the playoffs until it comes to defending jokic
Goddamn Lowe is biased
“Jokic might not be a great defender but have you considered the fact that Embiid also has no playoff success?” Lol what a dumb ass argument
“The Nuggets need to be better on defense; in this essay I will break down the Nuggets defensive struggles by talking about Joel Embiid’s playoff success?????”
I’d be sick if I were a Philly or Milwaukee fan. The way the media has been talking this year it didn’t feel like Joel/Giannis even had a chance to win the MVP. I don’t get it, Jokic isn’t that much better than them offensively to make up for the gap on defense.
History will not be kind to Jokic if he never gets a chip,
I’d love to know how Jokic makes the nuggets defense “much stingier”
So until embiid makes it to the finals jokic is a good defender. Makes sense to me zach
You know who’s made it further in the playoffs than both of these scrubs? Mikal Bridges. Give him the MVP award.
what does the bubble run to conf finals have to do with an regular season mvp vote 3 years later
Came here to talk Nuggets defense, and everything is MVP and playoffs.
No wonder ESPN is pure soap
This sub is really such garbage, even worse than usual. Everyday now people just posy from talking heads about Embiid v Jokic, are they voting for Jokic because he’s white, or similar asinine takes. Who gives a fuck, can’t we just watch the games and enjoy them. Regular season MVP doesn’t really matter compared to the championship.
The MVP debate is toxic and terrible. Stop the count
Tired of the cappin for this no defense playing fat slob.
Thank goodness we now know that Jokic’s defense is directly tied to Embiid’s playoff success. You can find better logic on local sports talk radio.
It sure would be nice if we could just talk about how awesome Jokic, Embid and Giannis are instead of every thread being a circle jerk for one of them.
Why I can’t stand Zach Lowe. What does previous years’ playoffs success have to do with the mvp race?
Lowe is no better than a Reddit user at this point. On what planet does he live on where Embiid doesn’t get trashed for not reaching the ECF?
Yes, Embiid hasn’t reached an ECF. His best team lost to a championship team by one shot on the road. He’s always been injured, and while his counting stats do suffer, his plus minus has been astronomical because he plays defense.
Y’all are tripping, mvp voting is and always has been arbitrary, people can’t even agree on what it means
zach lowe would blow jokic if he was given the opportunity
Wow didn’t know we haven’t been out of the second round. Thank you Zach namaste
Jokic is a career -31 in the playoffs whereas Embiid is a +289… so what is he talking about exactly? Isn’t Jokic 1-9 his last 10 playoff games with TWO ejections?