Derrick White started 69 games this year and Jaylen Brown started 67. The Celtics have a +9.6 net rating differential with White on the court vs. off, and -3.8 with Jaylen.
Derrick White started 69 games this year and Jaylen Brown started 67.
The Celtics have a +9.6 net rating differential with White on the court vs. off, and -3.8 with Jaylen.
— Adam Himmelsbach (@AdamHimmelsbach) April 8, 2023
by horseshoeoverlook
18 Comments
Advanced metrics always loved white and hated JB. The truth is somewhere in between, but not completely off base.
Maybe because there’s nobody on the team who plays the guard role as efficiently and productively as White whereas theres a fucking MVP caliber player who plays JBs role and is often the guy hes subbed out for
Ok?
Hey Adam chill
White is part of each of our top five two-man combos:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2023/lineups/
A few things explain the stats in the original tweet:
* White plays with so much pace — he doesn’t pound the dribble, he rockets off the screens, he cuts as hard as anyone in the league — that it has a knock-on effect for the whole team. He gets guys like JT or JB the ball a beat earlier so that they can attack defenses that are still in rotation rather than defenses that are already set, and his off-ball movement opens up gaps all over the place even tho he’s not a great shooter. Individual stats don’t catch this, but all-in-one stats see it.
* JB and Brogdon are kind of the opposite of that. Both are good-not-great off the ball, and both are so gifted 1v1 that they have a tendency to slow play down and let opposing defenses get set. Consequently, when they’ve played together this season, the offense has cratered.
* JB plays more minutes without JT than any of the other regulars, and while he’s a great secondary scoring option, he’s still not a good enough playmaker (partially because of his tendency to pound the dribble) to prop up five-man units for long stretches.
In the end I do think that the advanced stats overrate White a bit and underrate JB by a good deal, and that JB’s iso scoring becomes more valuable in the postseason. I just wish we could infuse JB with a portion of White’s decisiveness, because if that happened the dude would be unstoppable.
You put Dwhite in JBs body and you created the goat.
Edit or put in Tatum’s body
Why’s it always gotta be white vs brown?? Why can’t we all just get along, whatever color… 😂😂😂
Ok but can Derrick White beat up a glass flower vase?
as a guy who loves statistics i shouldn’t be saying this, but fuck the nerds.
or rather, using statistics without context can be annoying.
Without JB, we don’t win
The advanced stats have always disliked Brown.
All the while we’ve been one of the most successful teams in the league with him. Advanced stats will get funny about some guys, take Klay Thompson for example:
* Career offensive rating
Klay Thompson: 109
Jaylen Brown: 108
* Career defensive rating
Klay Thompson: 109
Jaylen Brown: 109
(fun fact: Klay has never even posted a positive DBPM).
I do think stats can help understand a situation, but they can’t ever be relied on as a standalone.
This makes JB sound way worse than he is. For the record, we outscored teams by 5 points per 100 when he’s on the court and he’s the guy who plays the least amount with Tatum, who is a net rating and +- god (because he’s amazing at basketball).
Why is the Hummer Bach instigating shit?
I don’t give a shit, jb is having the best season of his career and anybody can see that who watches the games. Wtf even is this dumbass tweet trying to imply?
PAY DA MAN
On/off numbers, and all-in-one plus/minus numbers, measure how impactful you are in the role you actually have. If Derrick White were asked to do what Jaylen Brown does (create against the opposition’s best or second-best defender, be a primary target of opponent scouting, etc.) he’d be a significant downgrade over Brown. Someone has to take the tough shots when plays fizzle out, and Brown and Tatum are better at that so they do it.
Mikal Bridges has always been an analytics darling with great on/off numbers, but this year he’s downgraded those significantly despite being widely considered an MIP contender. It’s a lot tougher to look good when you aren’t playing next to Chris Paul and Devin Booker, and likewise it’s a lot harder to look good playing without Tatum than it is with him.
The real MVP here is the Celtics front office, who have maximized nearly everyone on the roster by having Tatum and Brown do the heavy lifting on offense so everyone else can be creating against tilted defenses, and Mazzulla, who puts players like White in lineups that make the best use out of his great decisionmaking, defense, and spacing.
I’ll be honest this is more of a knock on the season Smart has had than it is on Jaylen. White has been excellent in every aspect but he plays a ton of minutes with JT. Hes also been their best defensive guard, probably their best defender overall this season. Jaylen *always* plays the minutes where JT is subbed out.
We’re legit a first round exit without JB every year up to this point and maybe still this year. Like what are you saying, don’t start JB? Lol.
I don’t get why people make posts like this, this is the type of shit that pushes JB away. Just dumb af hating and totally irrelevant.