I saw the thread yesterday comparing the FTR(free throw rate) of Harden to Butler and I decided to do some more research on the topic. The results were actually pretty interesting.
[Thread](https://www.np.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13u7dmg/jimmy_butler_has_a_free_throw_rate_of_608_since/)
Butler since joining Miami has been Top 5 in FTR twice, 6th once, and did not qualify once due to missed games(would’ve placed Top 5). For the most part his FTR is only comparable to players you foul on purpose. Embiid was the only other player with similar usage and FTR.
[https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA\_2023\_advanced.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_advanced.html)
I decided to compare Miami Butler to 2016-2020(Prime) Harden because most people tend to complain the most about the flopping during that time period. I picked a 4 year span for Harden because Butler has been in Miami for 4 years(2019-2023).
[FTA Chart Link](https://imgur.com/a/bQ7RSny)
In terms of just attempts at the line Harden clearly has the edge, but that does not really tell the full story. Harden was shooting and handling the ball far more often than Butler. This chart here provides much more context.
[FTA + FGA Combo](https://imgur.com/a/i2HZEHi)
Harden was shooting a few more free throws a game, but was also attempting far more shots per game. Just from looking at this chart you can tell Jimmy Butler has a far higher FTR.
I saw a lot of people saying “Well Jimmy goes to the rim and Harden just shoots threes,” So I looked into the shooting stats.
[% of FGs at Rim](https://imgur.com/rhVnGJP)
Jimmy did take a higher percentage of shots near the rim, but that doesn’t really matter once you do the actual math.
[# of FGs at Rim](https://imgur.com/a/oDqmyQK)
Harden was actually taking more shots at the rim and it was only really close for one season. So Butler takes fewer shots by a wide margin of 7.5 shots, shoots less at the rim in comparison to Harden, how does he manage to shoot even close to the amount of free throws Harden was getting?
[USG %](https://imgur.com/a/mtcILvG)
I thought maybe usage could help me understand why Butler was shooting free throws at a higher rate than Harden at his prime but that made me even more confused. Even his USG % isn’t close to Harden.
[% of FGs from 3-10 ft](https://imgur.com/a/g1fKC0v)
Butler did shoot a lot more often from the intermediate range. Maybe he was just getting fouled quite often in this range.
[# of FGs from 3-10 ft](https://imgur.com/a/EDFQVFH)
It is clear Butler did shoot from this range more often than Harden. Maybe that range is where he gets the free throws.
[Free Throw Rate](https://imgur.com/a/WPJFJif)
Butler manages to destroy Harden when it comes to Free throw rate and Harden has the reputation of being one of the biggest floppers in league history. I don’t think there is a reasonable explanation for Butler having a FTR comparable to guys who get fouled on purpose like Giannis, Gobert, and Plumlee. Unfortunately, I could not find a leaderboard for highest FTR in a season but .693 in the 2019-2020 season is the highest I have seen from a wing player.
* Butler has a free throw rate of .608 in his time in Miami, Shaq’s career average was .578
* Shot profile really does not account for the insane difference in FTR between Harden and Butler
* Butler has been the only wing player to consistently be top 5 in FTR for the past few seasons.
Harden has this reputation of being a flopper and being horrible to watch, yet Butler is literally statistically better than Harden at drawing fouls. For his entire Heat career Butler has made 6.85 field goals per game and made 7.2 free throws per game. LeBron has only broken over .5 once in his entire 20 year career.
by MyNameIsAMeme
29 Comments
Fire
Harden was hooking people’s arms to manipulate calls. Jimmy creates contact then pretends he didn’t.
Jimmy may get to the line more, Harden was still the more bullshit foul baiter.
The difference is one of them flops and one of them draws actual contact 85% of the time.
Butler don’t really flop though he just know how to get contact and his And 1 percentage gotta be top 10 in the league…
Harden, Trae, CP3, Embiid, and Smart look for bailouts
Butler is more on the Jovic tier
>how does he manage to shoot even close to the amount of free throws Harden was getting?
>
Unfortunately this is where your ability to answer the question falls apart because you actually have to watch basketball being played rather than throw a bunch of numbers at people.
All that math and not one attempt to actually dissect the differences in Harden and Butler’s game.
This took a lot of work just to be mathematically correct but still wrong. This is why stats alone don’t ever tell the whole story. Jimmy draws fouls as a result of contact, Harden initiates contact to result in fouls.
I mean they had to change the rules because of the bullshit Harden was doing, does that not tell you enough?
Taking a lot of free throws isn’t the same as being a foul merchant. Some players get fouled more than others. Getting fouled a lot results in taking a lot of free throws. Jimmy gets fouled a lot. He’s very good at attacking the rim and on a lot of those drives, gets fouled.
Why do people keep acting like he’s not called a foul merchant, we literally had a Van Gundy call him “Jimmy Freethrow” during a game. Like yes he gets calls, yes, part of his offensive game involves gettin to the line. But he’s the ONLY Heat player that can get to the line consistently and lives in the 0-10 ft range
Basketball discourse is over
So you went and did all that math, yet when it gets to the part where it shows Butler takes more shots than Harden inside 10ft you brushed it off with “maybe this is where it happens, I dunno”
As hated as it may be on this community, the ability to draw fouls and get to the line is a very effective skill to have.
My respect for Jimmy went down the drain. If he loses this series I’ll put him next to kwame brown
He’s transcended foul merchant.
Foul mogul.
With the bulls it didn’t matter who was defending in the paint, he put his head down and went for the drive and had the strength to get through, very often getting all sorts of contact. Huge difference from Harden
Yeah. Jimmy exploits the rules by driving for contact while driving for buckets. It’s a legit nba strategy and a reason why bill simmons complains about Tatum for avoiding contact
Facts 💯
The difference is that Butler doesn’t hook his defender’s arm and/or flails like he was shot after there was contact, but he’s just as crafty drawing a foul. He draws more fouls next to the hoop though. Harden cheesed the bonus minutes way more than Butler. Both are really fucking annoying to watch when they are hunting for fouls, given their talent.
Yep, it was a lot of fun seeing him score 35 on my team while going 6-17 and 23-23 FTM in a 1 point loss.
Btw I didn’t make this post to go after Butler or heat fans. I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy of the reputation Harden has in comparison to Butler. Can’t say I’ve been proven wrong 🤣🤣🤣
Seems obvious just watching that Butler gets the fouls he does by going neck first at the rim. Doesn’t feel cheap with way Harden’s does a lot of the time.
Frequenters of this sub have been aware of this for a long time. I remember those charts that would get posted measuring which stars scored the most of their points off FTs and Jimmy was always #1 if not close. No disrespect intended, this is just his game.
Drawing fouls and being a foul merchant are different though. He’s not pretending there’s contact and flailing like Young and Harden. He seeks out contact.
Now everyone’s calling him a foul merchant. Fuck outta here lmao.
A lot of jimmys fouls are suspect but he’s taking far more shots near the rim and if you watch what harden gets called for vs jimmy you would understand this. Not every foul is the same and jimmy’s moves do draw a lot of contact. I swear half this sub doesn’t actually watch games
Jimmy is actually just really good at drawing fouls. Super smart and doesn’t really flop like the other foul baiters (Reaves, Young, Harden, etc). I don’t mind foul baiting if they’re not flopping and acting like they got sniped every time.
I think the reason one gets hated for doing the same thing than other is their play styles. Jimmy is foul hunting but usually never complains about calls unlike Harden. Also Butler playing on both ends of the floor helps his image people not focusing on his foul hunting as much
Having watched him play I’m supposed to believe Jimmy hunts contact and free throws? Sure, and I suppose next you’ll be telling me guys like Trae & SGA do similar.
Now do Shai
nah hes just got that dawg in him