Source: https://streamable.com/pej83f
Full transcript:
> KOC: I mean the Celtics are the interesting one there because, whether it means anything or not, BetOnline has them as the favorites… The odds makers’ favorites to land Dame behind Miami. And I don’t think that necessarily matters a whole lot here, but it’s at least interesting considering the fact that, you know, Spears reported earlier in the Summer that Tatum was recruiting Dame.
> KOC: I’ve been saying that Boston should go after him since those rumors started in July. They can put together an interesting offer at the least.
> KOC: The Celtics can trade up to four first round picks, two in ’24, one in ’26, one in 2030. They have eight second round picks they can deal in the future. It’s tough to come up with the money, but they could do it. Brogdon, Robert Williams, Payton Pritchard, Luke Kornet, Sam Hauser, Jordan Walsh. Walsh was just an early second round draft pick that some teams had ranked as a first rounder. So really like five first round picks, plus a young guy in Robert Williams. Maybe you flip him to Phoenix in the Ayton situation. I don’t think the offer is better than what the Raptors could do or what some other teams can do, but I do think it’s better than what the Heat could do. And that’s the interesting thing here.
> VERNON: Well, there’s no better player than Herro in that deal.
> KOC: But it’s not about how a player is valued in a vacuum. It’s about how they’re valued to the Portland Trail Blazers. Herro does not have a lot of value to the Blazers. They are invested in Shaedon Sharpe. They have young players in that backcourt. Herro just doesn’t make sense for that team. He’s redundant. That’s why they’re so adamant about trying to flip him elsewhere. By the way, if Herro had a lot of value league-wide, he would have been flipped for multiple first-round draft picks. Teams don’t see the value in Herro at this point. He’s been a Dud in the playoffs other than his bubble series against the Celtics. He has not produced. They went to the finals without him.
> VERNON: Well in fairness, he didn’t play.
> KOC: They didn’t want him back! Because they were better off without him! He has been a Dud in the playoffs since the bubble his rookie year.
> VERNON: Hold on. Now, did they not want him back or they didn’t want him back if they could get Damian Lillard? There’s a big difference.
> KOC: No, I’m saying in the Finals… In the Finals, they did not want him back.
I decided to work the trade machine to see how a Phoenix/Portland/Boston trade would work under these parameters and this is what I came with:
Boston receives:
* Damian Lillard
Phoenix receives:
* Jusuf Nurkic
* Robert Williams III
* Payton Pritchard
* Luke Kornet
Portland receives:
* Deandre Ayton
* Jordan Walsh
* Sam Hauser
* Malcolm Brogdon
* 4 first round picks from BOS
* 4 second round picks from BOS
Boston gets another big name to pair with Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Kristaps Porzingis while managing to have Al Horford and Derrick White with them. Bench gets kinda rough though.
Phoenix gets to re-tool their center rotation with 3 capable guys (Nurkic, Williams III, Eubanks) and gets a young backup PG.
Portland gets a young center, a young 6’7 wing, a veteran they can get mentorship from and flip later, and an insane amount of draft capital.
[EDIT: I’m not condoning the trade or saying it should get done, just trying to find the logic behind it for each team and seeing what works salary-wise.]
by UnbiasedNBAFan_
30 Comments
They’re not getting him, Kevin. Move the fuck on.
Jesus Christ Al Horford????
Dame Brown Tatum Kristaps is nuts
Brogdon is a 30 year old, injury-prone guard who would take touches away from Portland’s young, developing cadre. So really it’s draft picks and Rob Williams, who on his own doesn’t remotely beat an offer of OG + Dick or Dick + Scottie
KOC really learned a lot from Bill lol
I don’t like this trade for the Celtics at all. As nice as a disgruntled Dame is, having Kornet as our starting center will be a ceiling dropper.
This would be one of the worst trades of all time
Aye that’s exactly the trade I proposed in the Celtics sub
I feel like surely brogdon would get rerouted too?
If I’m the blazers honestly Ayton, Walsh, whatever they can get for brogdon and 4 firsts is pretty good
He’ll no, don’t want this, I don’t want to move anyone except Brogdon maybe if he doesn’t wish to stay anymore
Celtics would package together Pritchard, Hauser and whatever else they can scrap together for salary matching before they move Horford.
The heat not wanting Herro back in the finals is def not true. Also now Jordan Walsh makes it “really like 5 firsts” but if the Heat trade 3 picks after freeing up one from OKC + Jovic and JJJ (two actual first round picks) wouldn’t that also be 5 firsts? Not even getting into Herro/Caleb Martin inclusion or the idea that those BOS picks would be due with Tatum/Brown still in prime years but yeah BOS totally has a better offer…
Ok now I know Toronto isn’t doing this, no way Masai does that many picks lol
So Celtics trade away all their bigs?
The kind of stuff you write when you work for Bill Simmons.
Jordan Walsh being basically another first round pick in value because some GMs had him as a late first is some redditor-level mental gymnastics
If they want to keep Barnes but Siakam is redundant, then send Siakam to ATL and we’ll reroute assets to Portland
Celtics don’t have the right coach for playoffs. They’ll have a strong regular season and underperform in the playoffs. They will also have leadership problems. Tatum, Brown, Porzingis are not natural leaders. This take some people won’t understand or think isn’t important, but I always say if your top players can’t go out to dinner regularly and have a great time you aren’t winning anything.
Miami tried bringing Herro back in the Finals but he hadn’t recovered yet. There were talks he was going to play G3 but couldn’t get on the court. Wild to think that your leading scorer during the regular season wasn’t wanted back because we were better without him. Just wild amounts of cope because we beat them without him
This is a terrible trade for the Celtics. You are trading all rotation guys and strong defenders for an aging small guard on a massive contract plus 4!!! Firsts. Dame Lilliard is not 93 Barkley or 08 KG.
Why would the Celtics need to trade Rob Williams *and* Al Horford?
I don’t want Dame, but the money can absolutely work without both big men.
for a logic nerd who loves elon, grimes and the movie Superbad, i dono he just kinda freestyles these takes i think
Are you calling the co host of the pod Chris Vernon a “guest”? The disrespect 💀
Suns dont do this. They end up with 3 roster spots they have to cut. They just did a fantastic job getting a bunch of people to come on vet minimums just to cut all of them? Nah.
Celtics FRPs will be worth less than ours years from now and no way would I be happy as a blazers fan getting those players back.
The Herro hate is absolutely wild these days. One of the best young guards in the league, and everyone acts like he’s trash. I understand why Portland doesn’t need him, but the idea that he has no value is wild.
I don’t really understand why PHX would agree to this, but this seems like a great value for Portland. That’s a HAUL in return for Dame
Those are trash first-rounders though…Why would a rebuilding Portland want four late picks?
You either want those picks as far into the future as possible to give the team more time to age / fall apart or you want them from a team that is either outright bad or already old and about to fall apart.
Boston’s are for next year where they will be good, and in 26 where they will still be good. Miami is already old and short of depth so I would argue that Miami’s future picks are way more valuable than Boston’s.
This is why NBA fans clown on the Ringer staff. It’s just non-sense. I get it, it’s late Sept. and you need people to listen to the pod, but come on, be a professional and stop this trash.
Reminder that KOC doesn’t have any sources.
Heat fans doing some real mental gymnastics trying to pretend they have a better package. Ayton plus 4 FRPs is better than Jaquez, Jovic, and the Heats 2 FRPs.