Samson Folk is joined by William Lou to discuss Fred VanVleet’s future, confidence in the front office, hopeful progressions, and more.
0:00 – Introductions
3:45 – Does Fred stay or go?
13:20 – Run it back?
16:40 – Scottie’s Development + future point guard
28:15 – Fred replacements
34:20 – Parasocial Relationships
38:18 – Does Fred’s decision force the Raptors hand?
41:30 – What happens with Pascal?
46:40 – MLE targets
50:55 – Confidence in the front office
1:04:20 – Development on the roster
1:11:20 – Origin of hello and welcome
1:13:20 – Podcasting is weird
1:18:00 – Idolatry & Religion
1:19:30 – RR is the best
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31 Comments
I too was happy with the Dick move
Jeff Dowtin… that is all…
You two have similar power levels.
Its enjoyable!
This is the type of conversation that sets the tone in the Raptorsphere.
You all jealous as hell,FVV going play for the coach 90% of the fan base wanted.Sure he struggled first half,because Raptors run there starters in the ground,playing there starters 40 min plus,every starters was hurt.Even S.B. played first 6 weeks hobbling.Yet raptors still dont address the bench.IMO if he goes i think Jak goes to houston also. Both played well together.Raptors have no guards,wth.Scottie Barnes will never be a guard,isnt between his ears! Rockford baby, we love ya FVV!
L O V E I T !!!
will pushing negative narratives about gradey if he aint traded for kd
samson is a genius and is gracing us with his presence
Always thought "have a blessed day" meant you were Wiccan-adjacent 😂😂 But I really appreciate the deep dive into the nature of podcasting; as someone who works from home after a decade-plus career in restaurants, just having the gentle din of convo in the background is so welcome, though definitively less meaningful than a real-world replacement. I'm glad you name it as "anti-human", and the labour-adjacent part of your pod is honestly what keeps me coming back.
4×30 from.Masai or 2×42 from Houston …. I would take the 4yrs but we will see in a few hours
WAIT,
'have a blessed day'
You arent christian like that?!
The idolatry section certainly shows you have an eye for spirit. The NBA is a giant ritual machine.
Love hearing you two together, a lot of bball knowledge…. my take is that FO have backed themselves into this corner and dont have any leverage and will have less if bag man does indeed leave…? I cant imagine the feeling if Yak also takes a dif direction…
Its time to move on from Fred. He's a good player but we can find another "good" player for far less than that egregious asking price. Fred is too small and he doesnt make his teammates better. Markquis Nowell is small but he is a point general in the truest sense. I would not entertain bringing Fred back at all. He is a liability on offense and defense. Dribbles the air out the ball and cant defend bigger quicker guards. He's a terrific shooter with deep range thats all.
You can always trade off the contract you can’t always get the player back
Rumour has it if by the evening of July 1st we get a Woj bomb saying Fred is leaving the Raptors then the city’s fans will celebrate getting their chemistry back with fireworks. Even if Fred walks for nothing they get their chemistry back, they reset the negative culture he created since Lowry left. They get more Scottie at PG. They get more touches for OG, Barnes, Trent Jr, and Gradey. The Raptors will get a lot of Fred leaves. Addition by subtraction.
So basically we need Kyle Lowry back haha
Lol I like how will Lou completely disregards the fact that scottie played injured like 75 games this year.
Most players probably wouldnt have played 50 games last season the way scottie was hurt.
But whatever…. I very often dont agree with will lou on almost any of his basketball takes.
Also scottie is never going to be a 30 point scorer. Hes waaay more Kyle lowry then he is kevin durant.
Stop looking at him like hes supposed to be a top scorer.
We built around kyle lowry and we won. We dont need guys like siakam and fred who dont play in a team and are anti clutch and highly inefficient.
I just do see scottie doing it…. he snever steps up – Will Lou
Meanwhile the 3 years of Fred and siakam at the Helm its been literally the worst the raptors have been in over a decade.
The team around these guys ruined it for siakam and fred – Will Lou.
How many years of rotating players before you realise these guys aint it?
Kyle and demar had garbage around them and found success. Whats siakam and freds excuse?
Trust me this era of the NN FVV PS will go down as a dark dark era with the only bright spot being they brought us scottie by sucking enough
So why not pick up Cole Anthony, Coby White or Markelle Fultz?
100% agree with Will on Scottie development. Scottie needs to show what he is.
I get Will's and Samson's point about the high level of drama in basketball commentary but that shouldn't erase what we all saw on the basketball court this past year. I don't think it erases Bobby Webster's comments about stat padding, about Masai's comments about selfish play.
asset management, wins/losses this year…whatever; in every way for the future it would be way worse losing Yak than Fred imo
Will with some BS takes. Is he really justifying the way Fred played for much of this season. The guy was looking off open players on our own team. The fact is, the raptors played team ball at times in the season, then they resorted to hero ball when pascal and fred started taking consecutive possessions for themselves. Its the reason why as a fan , we would be frustrated to see different playstyles, one that is team ball oriented, and the other is pascal and fred centered. Many occassions where Fred would be taking some stupid ill advised shots while a teammate is wide open . There was one game where Fred refused to pass the ball to OG anonunby, even fred fans and supporters could spot it. It was frustrating to watch. There is no way a seasoned vet leader like FVV could do that and not be in purpose. The fact is, Fred was playing for his contract, the play on the floor proved it, the interviews off the court with media cemented it.
barnes is in his 2nd year , it will take time to make the jump. But lets not dismiss the role that fred played in this crappy season. I can think of a few games this season which had me pulling my hair out watching fred shoot over traffic and height for a gamewinner, taking stupid illadivsed threes early in the clock when hes been ice cold, missing the roll man on the pnr. If you give scottie the possessions fred has, he would be averageing 20 , 10, and 7, and no one would be talking about his work ethic.
Will asking where this animosity for fred came from, as soon as a player blatantly puts his own interests over the teams, that is enough to get a fanbase enraged. This was in the face of all the fans for the whole goddamn season. You must be watching another game if you cannot see that Fred was stat padding. Fans will never support a stat padder and its insulting to paying fans to watch this crap product.
Apparently everyone in the NBA is worth max money now
We have seen FVV at his worst and his best we are a better team with him it’s not my money let the brain trust figure that out
I enjoyed listening to this discussion. I also thought Samson was a Christian with the “have a blessed day” and with a name like “ Samson.” Blessing normally has a religious connotation.
As a Bible Believer it’s sad to see people idolize other people or things instead of putting their Trust in the Almighty. Especially when other people or things can’t bring everlasting peace or joy. Especially sad to hear Will proudly declare he is an “ Athetist” it takes more Faith/belief to be an Atheist then to be a bible believer. To believe the universe came about by chance rather then an Intelligent Designer takes a lot more faith. Have a blessed day gentlemen.
Raptors last cpl seasons have been unwatchable. Let's not pretend we don't know why. I know y'all cover the team but COME ON. we ain't blind.
P/R is important,but offense will be about .5 sec movement, with more and faster ball movement and player movement first. Not sure Fred fits.
If we lose Fred: who absorbs the points and touches. Does OG get better? Does Scottie get better? On ball defense do we just need a ball stopper at the top to slow paint touches.
Fred's a good player, the piece might not fit with a new coach and playing style
Crazy bias from smart people
Oh boy oh boy, this episode is deep. The philosophical stuff towards the end, the idolatry vs. religion discussion, I totally agree with! I’m even surprised that it wasn’t that obvious that fans treat NBA players as celebrities and so the Fred hate is mainly because of competing fan bases. And Samson calling that out, that some think Fred being a hurdle for the young guys’ development, is like exposing the elephant in the room, so it’s natural that Will Lou thinks the topic is divisive or feels uncomfortable about it. (I’m glad neither of you share that view, and provided arguments to support that.)
The discussions about Fred signing or not and who to replace him if he doesn’t are not the most interesting parts of this pod since the topic is already beaten to death, but these other discussions really make this pod stand out from the others. I sense there’s an additional and different layer of synergy between you two (as Will kinda alluded to at the end), so you two should do this more often. Totally enjoyed this pod.
Legit the best raptors content on yt. Sum of the best in the nba
Will Lou … is Siakam still trash to you? is it still your opinion that Ogie is the best player on the team?