Stats from [https://www.fantasylabs.com/nba/on-off/](https://www.fantasylabs.com/nba/on-off/)
||With both Pascal/Yak|Without both Pascal/Yak|With Pascal, No Yak|With Yak, No Pascal|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Minutes|239|153|128|29|
|Usage Rate|20.6%|28.2%|24.9%|31.5%|
|Net Rating|\-0.2|\-8.7|\+14.3|\-24.0|
|FG%|51.2%|37.7%|55.2%|47.1%|
|2PT%|57.3%|43.1%|56.8%|43.8%|
|3PT%|40.6%|29.4%|50.0%|100.0%|
|TS%|59.7%|45.1%|67.0%|56.0%|
|Points/Poss|0.97|0.82|1.21|0.97|
|AST%|20.1%|34.4%|24.1%|30.8%|
|FT Rate|16.3%|12.9%|53.4%|23.5%|
|3PT Rate|37.2%|40.0%|24.1%|5.6%|
|Points/36|16.5|19.0|26.8|25.7|
Thoughts?
by The_SaltShaker
17 Comments
My only thought is there’s not enough minutes for Scottie plus Yak
Without both is also playing with the bench unit. For context.
Pascal Siakam and Scottie Barnes can and do fit well together. Pascal and Scottie open up the floor for each other by being huge offensive threats, and great playmakers. That’s saying something considering Siakam’s shooting slump.
A 2 way playmaking 6’8 wing is one of the most valuable players in this league, and unless we can trade Pascal for a great package we should re-sign him.
Do you know the offensive and defensive ratings of these on/off splits?
The big caveat is that minutes with Siakam, Barnes, and not Poeltl tend to be when the other team goes small (or at least doesn’t have a traditional big starting center out there). And yeah, Siakam and Barnes should and do tend to torch those lineups.
I really liked the Barnes/Siakam/Achiuwa/Flynn/GTJ lineup we’ve seen occasionally. Looks like that unit has played a super-small sample-size of 9 minutes together, with five of those minutes coming last night. Net rating of +35, but again, the sample size. Nonetheless, it’s a great lineup to punish teams that can’t bring a mobile rim-protecting C off the bench.
at the beginning of the season we had a Siakam + bench lineup. and that wasn’t working.
when the team started focusing more on Siakam because of his bad start, they started putting Scottie with that bench lineup instead.
Siakam gets to play with the more competent players but Scottie plays a good amount of time with the bench.
lately we’ve put OG with Scottie and that lineup which should help.
But I was never a fan of that Scottie + bench lineup.
The Scottie/Pascal mins trend similarly dating back to last year and year prior. Scottie tends to perform better when Pascal is on the court.
As much as we talk shit about our bench… 16 games in and it looks a lot better than it did a month ago, and seems to improve every game (minus some of the sluggish starts). And Siakam and Scottie seem to be jelling more each game. That’s very encouraging.
Can someone please explain the idea that Scottie and Pascal don’t fit together?
I don’t think there’s been a point in Scottie’s career where he’s been better off playing without Pascal.
These kinds of stats are really, really noisy, especially when you don’t have a full season to look at. Especially the yak/no pascal sample. Like, consider that he shot 100% from 3 in that sample, that’s probably what, 4 attempts? It’s so hard to learn anything meaningful from this.
I think it’s more useful to just observe that Pascal and Scottie don’t really have a dynamic halfcourt option that involves both of them. They can both use Yak as a vertical spacer and Scottie can be a ball handler in PnRs with Yak. But we don’t really see Scottie/Pascal PnRs; they don’t really have a good opportunity to elevate each other. When Pascal has the ball, Scottie has to spot up in the perimeter most of the time because Pascal needs the space to operate and doesn’t benefit as much from Scottie’s cutting and off-ball motion. Similarly, Pascal is not good as a spot-up shooter; and he’s good as a cutter but it’s not like he’s better cutting off-ball than any number of other forwards in the league. So when Scottie has the ball, Pascal isn’t really adding value to that possession.
-24 and +14
I just can’t understand how people are saying Jak is the answer. Have him come off the bench or in matchup situations or fucking trade him.
I was so confused by all the Scottie vs Pascal shitposting on this sub until I accidentally saw this ESPN post talking about Pascal in the context of fantasy basketball. Then, it hit me: a lot of you dudes are fantasy “owners” of Barnes, so you naturally have a selfish interest in his counting stats. (OP, this isn’t about you personally.)
I actually feel a lot better about it now, but I do wish folks would contain their fantasy-based discussions to “Fantasy” flaired posts. Oh, but there isn’t a “fantasy” flair because this sub is supposed to be about the Toronto Raptors, not about that crap. I’m really not sorry that Pascal is stealing those precious shot attempts and points from folks’ fantasy totals.
The drop off in talent is just ludicrous between the starters and the bench. Of course he’s going to be better offensively with normal nba players. I hate
using this stats to prove that Scottie and siakam work. Yea they are passable but the argument is that if Scottie had efficient shooters we could run one of the top 5 offenses in the league.
Scottie “being more aggressive” with g league players is not the solution. Good players are playing with other good players in the nba, nobody is consistently offensively efficient with the bench players the raptors are running. Tyrese haliburton and Malachi, precious and Boucher would not be some elite lineup either.
Literally doesn’t matter.
So it’s not about trading pascal because he is a bum and can’t play. He is a nba champion and 2 time all-nba player. The real issue is contracts and cap space, do you think this team is good enough to go into the tax. I think the consensus answer is no, we have to sign him and OG ( who has rumours about being unhappy in his offensive role). Trading pascal makes way more sense when you take a step back and look at things, that’s just my view.
The real question is whta are siakams numbers with barnes on/off
Those minutes are so fucking low I dont see how its even relevant.