Michael Jordan vs Lebron James Debate Review #nba #basketball #goat #chicagobulls #losangeleslakers

Michael Jordan vs Lebron James Debate Review #nba #basketball #goat #chicagobulls #losangeleslakers

Deep in the Heart of Texas we’re in the business of winning don’t bet against me I don’t lose your life all right everyone thank you for all the help uh you gave me with the debate as you can see behind me on the screen this is all my notes that I was

Writing down as people were putting them in the comment section so I just want to say thank you to everybody again you guys really helped out you know I I work you know 8 n hours a day and uh you guys really came through for me 15 pages of

Notes Here uh some of it spaced out but again thanks to everybody uh as you can see I I took what all of you guys said and was making notes so I appreciate that a lot you guys brought a lot of good stuff and again Robert Terell big

Thank you I’m G to have to hire him as my stat man or or something he was giving me a lot of good stuff uh but I thought i’ just do a review of the debate just more content go over some stuff and you again overall uh big

Thanks to Dart and to the guys over at Goat James Kingdom again anytime someone actually comes prepared and debates and you know takes it seriously and comes to win right you have to appreciate that so uh I do want to say that and remember guys we could we could have we could

Have tug or we could have the goat James Kingdom guys if that makes sense everyone who knows my history with tug right uh it could be tug or it could be these guys right so we’ll definitely take the goat James Kingdom guys over

Tug uh 99 times out of a 100 right so I I did want to say though that I didn’t know beely said I was lying about stuff I don’t know what he meant again stretch the truth or however he wants to put it I wish he would give an example instead

Of you know again if someone says something you don’t agree with and just just point it out right so that was the only thing I that out out of the entire debate right that was the only thing that I didn’t really like but it it’s

Whatever it’s not not a big deal I don’t think he was trying to be like malicious with it but the same time I don’t like being called a liar you know I can be wrong I can admit I’m wrong I have no problem saying oh I missed an Allstar

Here or I missed a category here or something like that but to be in a in a debate that he wasn’t even in and to come in at the end just be like well I feel like you’re lying like all right dude whatever but anyways that was the

Only thing that I didn’t like but other than that it overall it was very good um and again I’m more than willing to admit I’m wrong on something right so uh but I wanted to go over some things just just more content a little postmortem right

Uh just seeing where we were at and some things that were said uh so one thing I did miss is that there was in in terms of these Advanced analytics and let me speak on the advanced analytics real quick the whole point of me bringing up the advanced

Analytics wasn’t so much to talk about Advanced analytics right I am actually one of these guys that I think Advanced analytics can be a little overrated I do agree with that uh I can I can you know they can sort of paint a picture and and in spots

They might be able to be helpful but I’m not a big Advanced analytics guy per se the reason why I brought up the advanced analytics right was again not so much to bring up Advanced analytics but it was to point out all the times Jordan had led the league in these advanced

Analytics right that was really the main point I should have drove home that point more uh which was what I was trying to do and it is the picture that I painted right uh so the reason why I wanted to bring him up right was to just

Simply point out how many times Jordan had led the league in these statistics uh again I was trying to point out the dominance right the the being the complete Alpha of the league for 11 years essentially uh was my argument right his 11 full healthy years with the bulls compared

To uh compared to J or LeBron’s 20 right that was the picture I was trying to paint uh so that was that’s that’s that and I did miss one if without counting um usage rate because Jordan did has a has an overall higher usage rate and led

The league several times in usage rate more than LeBron has not counting that one again usage rate is it’s okay I one thing I wish they would throw into usage rate is assists which they don’t usage rate is only the end of a possession so in other

Words when you when you were invol when were you involved in the end of a possession so either a a score a bucket uh free throw attempts or a turnover right the the end of a possession right that’s what usage raid essentially goes over if I’m not mistaken I wish they

Would throw assist in there but then again they have Assist rates um you know they have turnover rates so uh and for what it’s worth Jordan has a higher usage rate with a lower turnover rate which I think is important right so in other words the

Times that he was involved in the end of a possession you know less likely it was a turnover and more likely it was a bucket or a free throw uh but I did miss one LeBron one time led the league in assist rate assist assist percentage so you can add one more

Advanced uh stat to LeBron’s uh total which again doesn’t really change anything in terms of the argument I was trying to make right and again the main point of the argument right was I was trying to let me zoom in a little bit here I was trying to point

Out again just how dominant uh Jordan was in those 11 years correct uh so that that’s what I was trying to do with that I did I didn’t mean for it to boil down into like an analytic statistics argument per se I was just trying to show in terms of leading the league

Right in all these different categories uh you know that Jordan essentially was more dominant right his Peak led to more times of him dominating the league in these certain things and just to be clear on the blocks per game and again uh he was saying it’s rounded to the nearest 10th which you

Know is technically true but if we’re going to get if we’re going to get technical here right and we look at their total blocks for the amount of games that they played make sure you guys can see that Jordan actually has uh almost 883 blocks right LeBron has 75 right so again just

To be Technical and if you add playoffs Jordan still leads and blocks per game right just just technically right again if we’re going to give field goal percentage to LeBron then it’s important we get this this right too as well and again you it’s I’m just pointing it out

Right it’s just is what it is so the other thing I wanted to go over was some of the shooting percentages in ter terms of effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage now again the fact that a shooting guard is only 0.008 difference or different in their field goal

Percentage is really more of a testament to Jordan than is LeBron right uh given how they played where they played things like that where they got their shots from more than the other and again LeBron leads it’s fine but no again the fact that you would think a shooting

Guard essentially has the same field goal percentage as a small forward especially one like LeBron who gets you know over a third of his shots or a dunk or a layup you know being 69 with the 40in vertical or whatever it is uh you know it’s really more of a testament to

Jordan now in terms of the effective field goal percentage and for those who don’t know effective field goal percentage essentially adds in your three-point shooting right so it makes sense that LeBron has a higher effective field goal percentage and one thing I wanted to look at that I found uh I

Found a good little article here and again it is what it is I’m not making excuses or anything right but as an example right let’s say me me player a and player B 10 possessions we come down and we go 10 for 10 from the three-point

Line right and we have the exact same effective field goal percentage and field goal percentage let’s say however on a defensive on a defensive possession I get a steal and I’m going down the other way and I either get a layup or let’s say I even get fouled and I go to shoot

Two free throws my effective field goal percentage would actually drop compared to my uh player because again it’s looking at per possession right so on his possessions he’s getting three points every possession I had another possession where I didn’t get three points and so essentially it dropped

Even if I even if I have the same field goal goal percentage correct and with that being said you can even have a higher field goal percentage as this one’s kind of pointing out here you can have a higher field goal percentage and still have a lower effective field goal

Percentage right because a guy who maybe takes a few more three-point attempts and hits him he’s going to have a higher effective field goal percentage he might even have uh less points right than than you as well but it’ll have a higher effective field goal percentage I mean

Much like LeBron and Jordan that’s why I’m bringing it up and so given the fact that Michael Jordan essentially 95 to 99% of his game was within the arc right uh it makes sense that he has he has more attempts to get to 30 plus points

Uh and that he has a lower effective field goal percentage correct if you break up their points per attempt per 100 shots their difference is like five to six points including playoffs and regular season right it’s like five uh five for the reg six for the regular season five for the playoffs something

Like that or vice versa uh so again what does that boil down to I mean that boils down to essentially a few more threes per 100 attempts being shot by LeBron right uh and so in terms of the effective and true shooting percentage you know it is what it is but again if

If you give it more context right and you add another layer to it it sort of makes sense right it explains it and it’s not really a knock on Jordan or a knock on LeBron it’s just sort of explaining why one might be higher than the other correct again LeBron in his

Time shoots way more threes as made way more threes right he shoots a slightly better percentage for his career and that effective field goal percentage difference can largely be explained by that as well as the points per 100 attempts right it’s only a difference of five or six points right and giving it

Context and over the career over your career right or even a 100 attempts that’s a lot of of attempts really that’s like that’s three or four games for these guys on average right uh so again it it that can be explained right that’s not really that big of a deal uh

In terms of that and again LeBron’s true shooting percentage is essentially 59% for his career Jordan’s True True shooting percentage is 57% for his career right so again when you throw in free throws uh and the three as well which which is what true shooting percentage is true true shooting percentage

Accounts for the points per possession on threes and when you add in free throws as well so again the effective field goal percentage is like 3.7 or whatever it was and then when you throw in free throws it gets down to like 2% right so again over the course of a

Career not that big of a deal when you think about how they played and the styles that they played in ETC right so there’s that and and again true one thing and one thing they do in the true shooting percentage is free throws are are counted as like0

44% right if you make one and essentially they’re accounting for like n1’s or if you shoot if you shoot uh you know three free throws on a on a foul on a three-pointer correct so you know you could you could point out a flaw here or there or something like that but it’s

Not it’s not a big deal right another thing I didn’t understand that they disagree with was yeah using their their competition chart here uh if you look at the again Jordan in his first four years there was no third team he overall played more first team uh in in 37

Playoff series compared to LeBron’s 53 LeBron has played 55% more playoff series than Jordan right and again I don’t know if they’re getting confused when I say on average right on average Jordan played more uh all NBA selections more all defensive selections on average he played more six man of the years more

More fi more MVPs more runnerup MVPs and one thing they didn’t do in their competition chart was that they didn’t uh they didn’t use who got second right like Jordan shouldn’t be penalized because he led the league in scoring 10 times and steals three times right who

Got second you should count that as well and especially when you count that Jordan played a much higher average of those guys than LeBron uh because Carl Malone got second one year in scoring mookie balock got one year with second in steals and there was one other

Scorer behind there was one other scorer behind Jordan I can’t remember who it is and the other one was Dominique Wilkins Dominique wiin one year with second in points as well behind Jordan okay so this video was 10 months ago so that that would that would en compus last

Year okay so again this is their competition chart right here right and you know again what they do is they do totals right but if you look at on average right because remember essentially essentially LeBron played 50% more playoff series than Jordan right so if LeBron doesn’t have if you

Take take Jordan’s number divide it by two add it on to Jordan’s total if LeBron doesn’t have more than that for whatever respective category then essentially Jordan on average faced a higher competition right so if we look at their comp here just looking at their comp right and I think they missed a

Sixth Man of the Year in Ricky Pierce I think it was in 91 1990 Eastern Conference first round yeah 1989 96 Man of the Year for those who can’t see that so they missed they missed Ricky Pierce in terms of a six-man maybe I’m missing something

There I looked it up I think they played each other uh he was healthy for that for that um time right but again you look at the MVPs right so they each have three in terms of who they played right so on average Jordan face more MVPs all NBAs on average Jordan face

More all NBAs on average you face more all defenses the allstar what so that’s like 30 so they’ve played roughly about the same amount of All Stars although I think if you were to be technical about it that would be like 29 more allars technically Jordan I think has a few

More just going off of this on average right uh Defensive Player of the Year Jordan faced more on average and again six man of the year I think they missed Ricky Pierce here uh because he also because Jordan also played Bill Walton uh who was six-man as well maybe for

Some reason they didn’t count that but either way on average still more six-man of the year and then you go to 20 point per game scorers more on average 10 or 10 plus rebounds per game more on average 10 assists per game more on average more steals more blocks per game

Average uh and again they they do the scoring champ again if we throw in what was it two more scoring champs for uh Jordan that would because of Malone and Dominique that would be two that would he would have three total so that would be moreon average and there’d be one more steals

Leader if we count balock who got second one year behind Jordan and they would essentially three yeah so they’d be about the same on that on average as well and again I think using the rebound leader assist leader block leader I think using the leaders I think that’s something they

Kind of fish for in my opinion or or maybe they did go in wanting to uh honestly look at it I suppose it just kind of comes off as a weird one because it’s only one player right so you know what are you going to do if that if the best rebounder David

Robinson or AEM or whatever was constantly in the in the west right just I don’t know it seems kind of like not important right th this was also another point was like Pippen was an Allstar in all NBA and in all defensive NBA right that’s still only one player right one

Player having even even if you were going to argue that Pippen is better than Dwayne Wade or Chris Bosch individually comparing them right having Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosch as two other options out of five players right is a bigger difference than just having the other guy who might be slightly better

Than both of them right again you’re trying to put your best five on the floor and so having another allar even if those so if you have two Allstars and I only have one other allar right even if my one other Allstar might be slightly better than your other twos on

An individual basis your other two still uh you know compensate for more players more production more things that they are able to do matchups situations right all kinds of different things you’re able to do with more players right uh again K coach got a Man of the Year yeah

LeBron so in in for all the defensive help you could say that Jordan might have had in terms of Pippen being a stopper and Rodman being a rebounder right LeBron’s had way more offensive help correct and I will stand by this right in terms of just a year-to-year singular

Basis uh Anthony Davis in 2019 2020 again in my opinion is easily the best player in just in just one year snapshots right if you go by any one year Anthony Davis was by far the best player either of them ever had for that one year Anthony Davis was an absolute

Monster he got six in MVP voting by himself that year uh and he was uh First Team all defense First Team all NBA he was like top 10 in points Anthony Davis was incredible in 2019 2020 so again even going I this is where B

Lee said I was lying I don’t I maybe he was thinking of this I’m not quite sure maybe it was the advanced statistics again the advanced statistics I was going Year bye how many times they led the league in advanced statistics I missed one time that LeBron led the

League uh in assist percentage again I didn’t I was using the Main advanced metrics but again even if you want to throw that in it doesn’t really change the argument uh and again Jordan played against more competition on average in terms of the in terms of the help you

Know this is where getting getting into the titles can be a little misleading right because again like in 2016 uh Kyrie wasn’t an Allstar or all NBA Kyrie Irving was an all NBA in 2015 and I understand he got hurt in the finals but in 2016 right it goes the

Other way right like he absolutely balled out in 2016 you could say he was an All-Star level Talent he was an all NBA talent for that year in 2016 during you know uh when they won it right so sometimes getting the all NBA and the all defense and the All Star requires a

Little bit more of a of a um a deeper dive a little bit but yeah I mean just looking at this right essentially this is Pippen and Rodman all the help which is just two players and he only had one of those guys guys for the second three

Pat and again Jordan only ever played with one other Allstar his entire career and that was that was Pippen even on the Wizards no one made an All-Star for what it’s worth and another interesting fact I’d heard is that once Jordan got another Allstar on his team once Pippen

Made his first All-Star Team Jordan never lost another playoff series which I think is pretty remarkable and I want to double check that cuz that sounds almost too good to be true let’s see an 8990 he was an Allstar they lost in the Conference Finals okay so he lost he

Lost uh he lost one series with Pippen once Pippen made an All-Star Team Jordan lost one playoff series which is pretty incredible right I’m trying to think of anything else I missed during the debate that was brought up he he talked about the four Allstar teams right and Boston

And Atlanta and again the reason why no one or why no one no one really thought of them uh I believe three out of the four Boston guys were bench picks and all four of the Atlanta Hawks guys were bench picks right and I think even one of the Boston

Guys was written in because Dwayne Wade was hurt that year oh my God there’s 454 comments on this video last time I looked at it it was like 50 I didn’t really get I wasn’t able to dive into this I didn’t do the best job during the debate in terms of relaying

This uh but of the 24 series during their playoff runs uh I saw a graph that kind of broke it down I I guess I could find it but it’s on NBA Reddit somewhere and essentially of the 24 playoff series Mike and Pippen played together on their finals runs Jordan guarded the tougher

Assignment more times than Pippen and just a quick rundown of some of the things I looked up with Jordan right and these defensive uh times that people think of him right again LeBron has the chase down block on Iguodala which didn’t even really matter in the end Iguodala could have made that shot

And they still would have won with Kyrie I believe it was game six Kyrie Irving still would have won the game for him with or without that block and even if Iguodala makes it it doesn’t matter uh they bring up Derrick Rose all the time that was literally within like it was

One quarter at the most again good job for LeBron he got him for that quarter that’s fine but again they think of that and I guess the block on Thiago splitter or whatever when they played San Antonio uh but again these were some of the things I wasn’t really able to bring

Up just because of three minute rounds you got to be quick uh 91 Eastern Conference Finals Detroit averaged only 0.79 points per play with Jordan as the primary Defender and shot just 35% uh 98 Eastern Conference Finals game seven he held Reggie to one shot in the fourth quarter again Reggie coming off

The the you know two three picks in a single set so that does mean something right game three of the 91 finals I brought this one up when Pip when Pippen had fouled out and by the way Magic Johnson cooked both Rodman and Pippen even though Pippen did a slightly better

Job but again you also have to think about the amount of energy exerted by Jordan on the offensive end and to be as good as he was defensively as well is incredible right so putting I think putting Pippen on him on Magic was the right call right even just from that

Standpoint but again uh game three of the 91 finals Pippen fouled out and Jordan essentially held magic to z z and zero with one turnover in overtime uh 92 finals uh Drexler did average his points per game the same as he did in the regular season but he shot seven or 8%

Points less with a lot of those made buckets coming in transition on other players uh for what it’s worth Terry Porter was actually a decent scorer in 92 as well averaging 22 points 52% from the field and 47% three in during the 92 playoffs leading up to the finals and

Essentially Jordan largely guarded Terry held him to 16 points per game 47% from the field but 23% from three uh 93 Finals game three Kevin Johnson at scored 23 points before Jordan guarded him with 7 minutes left in the fourth quarter Kevin Johnson had two points the rest of the game including three

Overtimes so again it wasn’t just seven minutes but also three overtimes Uh Kevin Johnson by the way really underrated player and I think this is still true he’s one of three players to ever average 20 and 10 for three straight years um Penny Hardaway only scored one

Total point with Jordan G ing him during the entire 1996 Eastern Conference Finals that’s a big one uh pyton 96 in the first three rounds was averaging 22 on 50% he only got 18 on 44% in the finals uh in the four playoff series they played the Pistons he held Isaiah Thomas to

Essentially 40% which was about 7even or 8% below his average in the regular season that year in the play offs I think might be more like 6% but essentially holding holding your the main point guard to 40% is always good and then another one I found was

The 97 Steve Smith he was one of the 20 point per game scorers I found uh he had averaged 20 20 points per game on 43% MJ held him to 18 points per game on 32% right so that was another one those were just some notable ones I wanted to

Mention and then also an interesting one that someone had shown me was looking at Pippen versus Oakley right uh Jordan’s first season came in 88 that correlated with Pippen’s rookie season but again people want to say oh like Pippen was the difference and not saying he wasn’t

Right uh but again Jordan scored more Jordan average was averaging uh 35 points per game six assists per game five and a half rebounds 3.2 steals per game and 1.6 blocks per game uh which is most ever by a guard by the way and that was also the year he had

200 plus steals 100 plus blocks the only person that ever do that twice which I think I brought up uh and also won All-Star MVP Defensive Player of the Year an MVP and a scoring champ I believe as well as first team selections on both sides I believe but comparing Pippen to Oakley

Right right Charles Oakley it doesn’t quite fit the narrative right to bring up how good Oakley was right but he played more minutes more points per game definitely more rebounds per game more assists per game slightly less Steals and slightly less blocks shooting a better field goal percentage and free

Throw percentage than Pippen right so again like I really it’s really hard and baffling why people stick so hard to that early part of Jordan’s career where he absolutely baled out and did everything he could and was playing against much better top end teams during the expansion era right again you can

Make that what you will but the whole like oh once Pippen got there well if you actually look at what Pippen did it wasn’t because of Pippen right like Pippen didn’t come in and just start filling up the box score I mean hell he was only playing 20 21 minutes a game

Right so you know it’s just the whole that whole Pippen thing to me is very uh very odd and again I I also brought up this uh comparing both of them them at 1,72 games in which is how many games Jordan played in total in his career including

Washington uh Jordan had more points uh he had more offensive rebounds more steals more blocks uh a better PE more win shares total accumulative uh more titles finals MVPs MVPs more Allstars uh a defensive player of the year and more all first team defense es yeah higher points per game higher

Offensive rebounds per game steals per game blocks per game more win shares per game so that was another one uh and this is one thing I also was going to get into it just kind of didn’t come up in the time that we had um but these are

Like some of the more notable things that Jordan is the best at or number one at right so we’re not even comparing him to LeBron again if we want to talk about being the greatest right we just want to bring up Jordan some of the things that

He’s done obviously points per per game including playoffs regular season and playoffs highest points per game in a single playoff series highest PR ever highest win shares per 48 in both regular season and the playoffs alltime playoff box plus minus offensive box plus minus all time including playoffs

He has the best value over replacement season of all time including seven of the top 15 which is absolutely incredible uh the best singular game score of all time time most points in a single playoff game and winning seven honors in one year which to be honest

Bill Russell probably would have got you know if you throw in uh blocks and rebounds and he probably would have won a lot of the same Awards uh so he Bill Russell probably would have done that as well at some point uh most points per game ever by a

Player is one Defensive Player of the Year only one of three guards to win Defensive Player of the Year most blocks per game for a a season and all time by a guard Wade Dwayne Wade has slightly more blocks for his career but Jordan has more blocks per game I in in my

Opinion Jordan’s the best shot blocking guard of all time oh yeah the EMT Smith a guy came on there and said uh EMT Smith EMT Smith was the best running back of all people consider him the best running back of all time because he has

The most yards per game that is not true man even as a Cowboys fan I can tell you that people do not consider EMT Smith the best running back of all time right and even as me as a Cowboys fan as much as I love EMT I think he’s

Overhated uh because I do think he was smart red holes was patient was tough and durable uh you know he he was what he needed to be and again if you’re going to play against an all-time great offensive line well the least you can do

Is rack up the most yards of all time right uh so again no one re no one considered no one I want to say no one most people who are football fans or or into the game especially comparing running backs no one thinks EMT is the

Best running back of all time for the most part right yes he’s one of the greats absolutely uh as he deserves to be but uh he is not he is not the he’s largely not considered the the greatest running back of all time again this was

The point I was trying to make right is LeBron really a better rebounder than David Robinson no way if you if you put up a 100 shots and you had David Robinson and LeBron James underneath the basket just those two guys and you essentially just said uh you know we’re

Just going to see who gets the most rebounds out of a 100 attempts right I’m you know I’m sorry but David Robinson’s winning that battle nine times out of 10 right Jason kids made more threes than Dirk paesia Durant is he and they literally said that kid is a better

Three-point scorer because of that right it’s just the the they you know this is where like when you go into debates you’re as much as you would like to say you’re going to win the debate no one’s going to change their mind right this is why it’s really for entertainment right

It’s it’s for it’s for the content right give the people what they want is really what it’s about right uh cuz like it might is are any of us really going to uh say something so profound or absolutely btfo our oon our opponent to the point of

Uh you know where they go man my entire my entire worldview and and view on this thing has changed you’re right Jordan is the greatest or you’re right LeBron’s better right it’s not going to happen right so you can’t really go in expecting to change anyone’s mind right

It’s for the it’s for the content right it’s for the it’s for the people uh and so yeah that’s why you kind of have to go in you’re just going to try to make your points right but again I some of those things I disagree on obviously and they disagree with me

But the one one thing the one thing I can’t really agree on right is the uh like is the just uh com constantly saying that more just because you have more of something means you’re better right again like I said in the MJ video they can have a lot of overlap

They can sometimes be very synonymous with each other but at the end of the day they don’t mean the same thing in terms of being uh greater or having the most of something so yeah that’s about it just wanted to do a quick recap uh again it was a good

Debate I appreciate those guys coming on and everything uh but yeah I mean that’s uh yeah that was it that was just some things I wanted to go over just kind of putting a bow on it um and more stuff for you guys to watch over the holidays

So um yeah as always see you guys on the next one

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