Reacting to the OG Anunoby Trade | The Bill Simmons Podcast

Reacting to the OG Anunoby Trade | The Bill Simmons Podcast

This is one of my favorite trades in a while because we we have no answers yet on all four of these guys and I feel like both teams won the trade but I’m excited to hear what what you guys think yeah where do we want to start Justin do

You do you want to lay out the specifics sure we can we can go through the details so out of nowhere there’s really no Prelude to this trade as there typically is for most of these trades uh the Knicks get ogn anobi precious atua Malachi Flynn the Raptors get RJ Barrett

Emanuel quickley and a 2024 second round pick uh it’s interesting from from Detroit so that’s almost definitely the 31st pick in the draft I’m guessing so that’s a that’s a pretty good asset right and so now this isn’t Prime Shaquille O’Neal which is what we thought was the price for OJ and anobi

For the past two years uh but it seems like this is a pretty good trade for both sides Bill what did you think here I’m excited to kind of have answers on all these guys that was my first thought ogan anobi the chemistry’s been off with the Raptors for three years they keep

Changing the guys but him and SE yakum and maybe two others have been there the whole time so at some point maybe maybe it’s you um is he just a 15 points a game three rebounds a couple threes and great defense guy is there a little more

There I don’t know uh quickly really want to see him have his own have his own team RJ I have no idea and we could talk about him later and then precious and tibs just feels like a match made in heaven so I watched the Raptors coincidentally last night play the

Celtics as the Celtics tried to keep their undefeated home streak alive which I know you guys are riveted by it’s true and we had we’re missing half of our starters somehow Outlast the Raptors but it was the same feeling I’ve gotten watching the Raptors All Year Rob it’s

Like this team’s off the pieces don’t totally work we felt this way this is year three of that now and it was just like what is this team so it was clear they were going to do something did you think this was the most they could get for an and

Obi interesting question cuz yeah Justin you framed it in terms of the Shaquille O’Neal level Hall we’ve all been talking about I think a lot of that stems from the Raptors reportedly turning down I think it was three first round picks from Memphis a few seasons ago in in

Terms of that kind of trade negotiation and that’s kind of set the market and the conversation around anobi for a long time I wonder if we misread that not as the Raptor saying three picks isn’t enough enough but just categorically as a franchise we’re not interested in

Starting from scratch what we want is players like this you know admittedly a wild card and RJ Barrett a guy who I yeah I don’t know how to forecast his future at all but I’m most excited young playerwise at quickley fit here like quickley and Scotty Barnes that is a

Match made in heaven in terms of a point guard who is never going to be a super highle playmaker but a good shooter a good Defender a guy who knows how to play without the ball pairing him with your ball dominant creat Wing who’s a great passer that makes a lot of sense

And then RJ kind of slotting in as we’ll see what we can get between those two so maybe it’s more along those lines where Toronto look I’m pleased as hell that they Honestly made a trade that feels like a Christmas miracle in itself so I’m I’m happy to kind of Judge these

Returns and see what quickly can do there did I miss Emanuel quickley becoming the new Chris Paul because everything that I seen coming off of this trade is that quickly is the best player in the trade he needs a new start in order to really show what his value

Is I am a big quickly fan I always kind of thought of him more as the microwave Jamal Crawford late stage sort of player than he is maybe Nick’s level Jamal Crawford and so I guess what is quickly at this point well that’s the thing is

He doesn’t have to be the guy coming off the bench to put up points he can do that and he can slot in next to Jaylen Brunson as he like he was a part of the Knick’s best lineups this season with Brunson and Randall playing more of a

Ter role but now we get to see kind of what he has as more of a lead guard or at least kind of a secondary Creator alongside guys like Barnes and seak which that feels like a pretty comfortable spot for him I’ll tell you one thing quickly is a guy who sucked in

The playoffs for the nck and it’s tough because and we saw the warriors were in this spot with Jordan P who did not suck in the playoffs for them at least two years ago because he was one of the reasons they won the title you get in

This spot where you don’t want to pay $30 million a year for a guy who’s like a little too good to be your sixthman but not quite good enough to be your your lead guy and the guy who has the ball in the last five minutes into the

Game I also feel like I look at this from a Nick’s side I tweeted this today can you get can you find 80 to 90% of what quickly did for you with other players that are available in the trade market like we know Utah wants to trade

Jordan Clarkson at this point they have all these guards that need to play could you could you turn an expiring into Jordan Clarkson and then hope he’s 880 to 85 5% is as as good as quickly was um also had he was restricted free agent coming up

And is the type of guy that I think another team would have come in and been like we’re gonna put the Knicks to the fire here here’s a here’s 110 million or whatever the max was are you guys ready to pay $25 million a year for a six-man

Then there’s the Brunson piece of it Justin where the Brunson has the ball the time and if you’re at the end of games and you’re playing Brunson and quickly together I’m going to be able to get whatever shot I want on the other side right so your offense has to be

Spectacular and this is what I said last week on my pot I just F like the Knicks were between they weren’t explosive enough but then they also weren’t big enough without Robinson so it’s like what is this team this is a team that’s just not a threat in the East so now you

Have anobi now you’re better defensively and there’s still one move one more move coming right if they’re really serious about this year I don’t feel like they’re done yet yeah enobi definitely feels like he fits the next type where anobi at his best offensively despite the fact that he thinks he should have

This different role be able to handle the ball more he needs to be able to play bully ball and stand in the corner and shoot threes that’s what he’s good at and that fits what tibs wants to do he just wants to outmuscle teams a lot

Of the time and it does clear up as you were saying Bill opportunities for Brunson to just be magical which he has at various points in this season uh the flip side of this is it also opens up opportunities for Julius Randall to be magical and I think that’s more like

Dark magic that nobody wants in their lives but at the same time this does feel like it clarifies that starting Nicks lineup a little bit and I think you hit the key point there bill I think it also gives them Runway to figure out the next move down the line it it might

Be disappointing for Nicks fans at this point they’re waiting for a superstar finally we talk about embiid we talk about Mitchell and it’s a star role player in OG and noobi but if anything I think this just makes it easier to bring on someone like even a Mitchell maybe

Not the best fit but like the next guy who is going to lead the next Nicks era I think OJ’s a perfect fit for that sort of Team yeah and RJ was not going to be a fit for that kind of team just by skill set you know it’s not even just

The difference in their percentages shooting but how they’re guarded and teams just don’t respect RJ’s jumper at all it leads to a lot of clutter in the lane which is why the Knicks have to outm muscle people because it’s the only way they’re ever going to get to the

Basket with kind of the spacing they had set up you’re losing a good shooter in quickly but you’re gaining a good shooter who’s Big in anobi and the time in of this trade does not feel like an accident like the Knicks just got absolutely bodied by the magic fron

Vagner Apollo banero the exact kind of game where you could use OG an anobi the Raptors just had a starting lineup change earlier this week where they took Dennis shuder out of their starting lineup to try to get more spacing on the floor more shooting on the floor now

Both teams are kind of getting what they need for the moment but they’re moves that could serve both franchises long term ultimately and I I like the idea of anobi as a stepping stone toward what this team can ultimately be and wouldn’t you know it another CA client in New

York like how how does this keep happening isn’t iton Rose’s son who is OG’s agent I think that’s true so I would flip that around the other way they had like real ties to quickly because I’ve heard the ca thing a few time quickley was a very difficult guy

For those I think they knew quickly since he was like a you know a junior in high school um the RJ let’s take these guys one at a time y cuz all the Knicks fans that I know were super frustrated and kind of like either half out three

Fource out or all the way out on RJ because you know he’s not a guy that necessarily if you ISO them you can’t do anything they and now we have cool stats where you can look all this stuff up right not awesome as the as the ball

Hinder and pick and roll not awesome as a niceo guy okay at post-ups spotty three-point shooter but a guy that if you watch on the right night you’re like oh he’s interesting he plays really hard there’s something here like I liked him for a while but now it’s

It’s year four and you kind of you start becoming who you are in year four and to me he’s not consistent enough I thought he needed to change his scenery so good gamble for Toronto and he’s Canadian which you know leads us toward maybe this is the Gateway for the

Wig and seum trade that I’ve been pushing forever and just put more Canadians on that team but I guess I what do you guys think ultimately about RJ like is he ever an Allstar is he ever the third best guy a finals team like I don’t see either of those things for him

Well Bill I’m just glad you’re here for this historic moment of bringing the Canadian diaspora a little bit closer to home I know this has been a passion of yours for a long time so for years for literally 25 years I’ve wanted it and now we’re getting closer yeah but I’m

I’m pretty flaky on uh RJ Justin like I again there are nights where you believe in it but it feels like just about the most Hollow and the least reliable 18 to 19 points a game you’re going to find in the ba yeah well the other thing is and

Rillo has been talking about this on his pod for I think two years it was weird that he didn’t play crunch time at all like I think he was seventh in crunchtime minutes for them rill said two weeks ago which to me is the ultimate red flag if your coach is

Thinking in the last five minutes of games you’re not one of my five then it’s time for you to probably get traded and then if quickley and Brunson were two year five what are you going to do you’re not winning four playoff rounds with that so you mentioned this was the

Stepping stone type of trade I I can’t wait to bring the Celtics into this guys you know it’s it’s been almost what 11 minutes had how are they related well we traded for Ray Allen in 2007 and me and all the other Celtic fans were like what

Are we doing we Paul Pearson Ray Allen and no what is this team why did we do this but it was the gateway to the kg trade I always thought that was like the best Gateway trade this is probably will not have the same results as that but

This is a trade now where you have Brunson you have anobi who’s a three not a two but now A Mitchell trade makes more sense or somebody like that because they kept all their picks they still have the fora expiring which is like almost 19 million they still have the Mitchell

Robinson it sucks to trade a guy who’s hurt but he’s still making 160 in a year and you could package basically any combination of anything now for a guy making 40 and all your picks and really make a move and they’re a little close closer than they were I think 24 hours

Ago it’s my takeaway yeah that’s why I like it for the Knicks if only because RJ always felt like a placeholder for the player that was ultimately going to fill that role he has done an admiral job of forcing whatever he was whatever star potential he had into a box to become a

Role player he has really excelled better than I ever expected of kind of being an ancillary option for the Knicks and I’m curious to see how he’s going to evolve on that with the r Raptors I think it’s a it makes sense that he doesn’t really shoot threes that well

And so in that sense it makes him a perfect Raptor but he always just seemed a little out of sorts uh for that Nicks team and so I do feel like maybe giving him some more space to roam with the Raptors where they could rip and run might actually lead him to something

That he’s going to be but honestly I just I I I don’t know what his future holds and if it is going to be at this level that contract is pretty arduous because it’s going to go on for another two three seasons after this Rob did you

Notice what Justin just did there it was very nice and diplomatic but he called RJ a good stats bad team guy with but he didn’t say it but he did it for 90 seconds but you’re basically you’re saying I want to see this guy on bad

Teams yeah I mean he’s actually a good he’s like a decent stats good team guy I guess would would be the evolution of that with maybe that that’s the ceiling decent stats good team guy I mean the the precious piece of this I don’t I

Don’t know if it should be in the first 50 minutes of this podcast but I don’t want to sleep on that because we’ve seen tibs hang on to Taj Gibson here like like a binky blanket for 15 years and precious is we I mean Rob don’t you

Think Precious on this Nick team is just an immediate we’re g to be watching a week from now like oh my God this is like the perfect tibs guy Jesus okay I I I kind of want the isolated tibs cam during every precious auua minute because he is definitely the kind of

Player who will make a coach pull their hair out and yet because like the Knicks are playing Taj Gibson as their backup center right now you almost have to play him like he has to be a meaningful part of this team and I’m kind of curious to

See how the benches for both of these teams play out now because New York’s bench had been pretty solid for them solid to the point that they started kind of messing with their starting lineup you know Dante Dean chenzo goes in there Josh Hart closes in place of RJ

Barrett as you were alluding to Bill like they they’ve had all these options because of their bench but now everything’s a little more shallow now everything’s a little more reliant on the precious AAS to make everything go and make everything work that kind of suits tibs in some ways because he only

Wants to play seven guys in the first place but precious is now a cenal Personnel for the New York Knicks and I I don’t feel great about that but here we are we do you think Biggest Loser surgically repaired OJ and an noi’s knee being on a tips team although I guess he

Played for Nick nurse who was like kind of tips 2.0 with running guys into the ground so maybe maybe he’s used to it maybe the biggest winner though because whatever wink wink nudge nudge deal OJ an anobi is probably getting to remain a member of the New York Knicks is

Probably good for a guy with a surgically repaired knee yeah I do love that Mitchell Robinson’s injury has sent tibs into this existential crisis where he’s reaching back to his old life with Taj Gibson he just needs a center in this deal because God forbid if he ever

Plays small ball and like tries to do things that are a little bit more inventive this guy has to play big and physical no matter what it’s just like it’s so perfect where was Joe Noah he’s got to be like what am I chop liver I can’t get brought back I one inob

Question I had for you guys yeah could they have done better than this like if Messiah had called us and said hey I’m gonna trade an anobi this weekend like I always thought and I don’t know where Indiana is and maybe maybe they’re not they’re not uh they’re kind of in no

Man’s land trying to figure out are we buyers or sellers but I always thought if they wanted to put mathine on the table with uh jarus Walker something like that or Philly if Philly wanted to um I guess just put a bunch of picks in who knows darl’s probably going to play

Till February but I just I’m surprised that this was the best deal but at the same time I really do like quickly and and I think for what this Toronto team needed especially watching them last night and the other times I’ve watched them it just feels like the last five

Minutes of the game even dating back to the van Ved era the last couple years they just never had closers they would always any close game you just always felt like they were going to come up short so I get the seduction with with quickly but I it is kind of crazy that

We were talking three first round picks and an asset for him a year ago this does feel less than what we thought some of that might be the difference in that timing where yes you could get more a year or two ago but now staring down an expiring contract for ogn and Obi

Whereare a player like that is going to have an incredible Market there’s going to be a lot of interested teams and yeah I I think it does come down to what the Raptors wanted and this is a team that as much as possible has tried to Stave

Off rebuilds going back to the end of the Rudy Gay era you know like they have not wanted to bottom out for a variety of reasons and so maybe they were just staring down those first round picks and saying honestly we’d rather have young Talent we’d rather have guys who can

Step in especially once they got Barns and be a part of something that’s growing as to whether that’s growing in the immediate like I think they are they’re better positioned they’re better like the structure of this team feels better than it did a day ago I don’t

Know if the Raptors are going to be a great team this season or a dramatically better team this season but they don’t have to be dramatically better to make a run at the final few playin spots either like there there is ground here for the

Taking for them so SE yakum has to be the next trade then like I I don’t I don’t see how he makes sense at this point yeah especially with RJ in there yeah I feel like he hasn’t made sense for there for the last two or three

Seasons and and we’ve been here so at this point nothing will surprise me but I would hope this is the first Domino to fall Rob had do you feel just in your head about us spacing with RJ Barrett and cakam how’s that what what kind of

Defenses are we throwing at a at a team of two of those five guys out there don’t forget yaka purle another part of their spacing oh my God this is like the anti-s spacing team Shooter’s but look just having quickly plus Gary Trent Jr shooting has turned a little bit plus

Scotty Barnes has been hitting threes well this season I mean that might be the best shooting Raptors team in years at this point so yeah Fair onward and upward for Toronto well maybe that’s why they targeted players over picks here I wonder if Scotty Barnes at this point is

Just too good in order to bottom out and that you all be always be in the like 10 to 12 range with this team that actually trying to play for picks isn’t really the way to go there well hold on on that point don’t don’t they have San Antonio

Gets their top six protected first right from the so you either have to like crater or be a little bit better where you don’t want us to give them like the seventh pick in the draft that would suck right true right so I don’t know I also wonder

Like are we overvaluing first round picks at this point we’ve we’re coming off an era where they’re like everyone is going for five to six first round picks and you look at the teams that have been accumulating them and like what have they actually done with any of

These look at Oklahoma City they have drafted so well with virtually like 10% of the draft Hall that they have that what are they going to do with all these guys that are piling up behind them I wonder if it actually makes sense and we’re getting into an era where like

Actually going for younger distressed assets is actually the better thing and that’s why to me the most interesting part of this trade is that like this is kind of a Messi challenge trade to himself like he’s kind of been missing over the past couple years holding on to

Guys for too long I wonder if actually finding something and quickly and Barett might rehab his own value as a GM here because like those are the type of guys that I think might be undervalued and might be the market in efficiency right now yeah even if they had gotten three

First back for OG at this stage that still puts them what third maybe fourth in terms of acquired draft Capital if some if some big trade came available you know the Thunder are ahead of them in line the Jazz are ahead of them in line I think the Pelicans are probably

Still ahead of them in line with their assets and so what what do three first really get you unless any of those individual picks is going to get you straight up at the top of the lottery if they’re just kind of mid to late first that kind of capital doesn’t go very far

Right now um I mean as you were talking I was thinking Biggest Loser of not getting anobi and I think we all think anobi is a good player but I I don’t think he’s I don’t think he’s a $40 million guy I don’t think he’s like

Special but I think he’s a really good three and D guy but watching OKC beat the living [ __ ] out of Denver last night and you think like all right how do you improve this team without messing with it and you know you have like basically the the wiggin spot there there’s a

Couple like their seventh day ninth guys if you could just put an awesome guy and give that awesome guy their 30 minutes an awesome fourth fifth sixth guy instead of like some of their uh some of their bench guys that would have been a really interesting anobi spot just like

Throw him on that team without them just with a bunch of picks but I as as you said Justin it doesn’t seem like Messiah wanted picks he wanted players which was one of the cool things about this trade it was like an old school basketball trade it’s two for two the Detroit

Second round picks an asset but for the most part it’s like H not sure about our two guys here what about those two guys you’re not sure and we’re just swapping two for two the Malachi Flynn eraser happening on this podcast is I didn’t know he was in the trade till Justin

Mentioned it but yeah sorry sorry Malachi well you’re talking about losers I think Philly probably has to be up there too because not only are you taking him off the market probably because I assume the Knicks are going to sign OG to a big extension this summer

But you’re keeping him away from the Sixers who probably need him more than they need a Zack LaVine or or Donovan Mitchell they don’t need star power they need ancillary star role players and OG’s the best one of those we have in the league yeah we’re in a weird place

With the trade market right now where there are kind of if not a surplus of guys on the market yet a surplus of guys who plausibly could be who are more ball dominant guards or scoring oriented guards and most of the teams that are up there in the standings right now that

Are really contending I mean their scoring is accounted for they’re looking for perimeter defense they’re looking for size and flexibility and switch ability they’re looking for a guy like OG who on the right night in the right matchup he’s guarding opposing centers right like that’s the kind of

Optionality he gives you and so for for a player like that to be taken off the market when now we’re just looking around at the Lavin and the Mitchells a lot of sameness I I think that’s a tough blow for a lot of contenders and would be contenders under these circumstances

Well and you think with the Knicks too who do you have to beat in the East you have to beat Boston who’s 16 and0 at home I’m going to say it again um but you got to go through Boston and you got to be able to defend Tatum and you got

To be able to defend Brown you got to be able to defend Giannis and you have to be able to defend Giannis and Pat htan um and you have to be able to defend Jimmy Butler and you know it’s just always good to have one guy who can uh

Do that and potentially that opens the door for them for two I was looking at to me this H there has to be another Nicks trade because you got to repl place to quickly punch Off the Bench even if if it’s like TJ McConnell who I

Continue to throw in a trade so I continue to like but just say hey TJ can you can you just for eight minutes a half like run the offense for us when brunson’s not playing even that you know could he be 70% of what quickly was I

Like where they’re at but I I still don’t feel like from a Firepower standpoint there has to be a monster trade coming and and it’s you know Mitchell is the guy we’re all staring at does he go to Miami does he go to Brooklyn does he go to the is there’s

Some mystery team we don’t know about but just find it hard to believe Cleveland’s going to keep Mitchell in wait till the summer he’s going to have more value in January and February I think don’t you so potential TJ McConnell Josh Hart Isaiah hardenstein yeah that’s a

Feisty team is this too much of every dad’s favorite player on one team I guess is my question is it is it it’s a feisty fist pump team a lot of slapping floorboards going on that’s for sure Justin TJ McConnell could have got a vain NOA he would have been totally

Happy there oh yeah perfect fit there right next to Dante D venzo yeah I mean do we think that Mitchell is the fit here on the one hand I I personally don’t but I’m not against it yeah I I don’t love him and Brunson together I know Rob doesn’t either but if you’re

Gonna go all in on somebody there’s not that many some buies you know there’s how many top we’re doing we you made me do yet another ringer top 100 list and I’m going through it and you go you do those top 30 guys and just none of them

Are available and If you’re going to trade everything for a top 30 guy even towns isn’t available at this point so who’s the guy yeah that’s the thing and that’s why I kind of don’t think this has to be a move made this season the big the big salary that would be

Outgoing in a potential deal is probably Julius Randall he’s got another year under contract another year to work with maybe this is the kind of thing where you get this together for now you get o ogn and Obi comfortable you figure out what your starting five looks like and

Then you’re playing a longer game with the trade market as as the Knicks always are honestly but there is that glaring hole at the two where divon chenzo is so up and down so streaky as a player his decision- making offensively can really be pretty infuriating sometimes but the

Effort is there he’ll get like have games where he just gets four offensive rebounds that change a quarter he has those performances in him but I don’t know that you want him as a starter and it’s pretty clear at this point that tibs doesn’t want Quinton Grimes as the

SC starter either so if you’re not plugging Josh hardt in there I don’t know who the long-term answer is so whether it’s Donovan Mitchell whether it’s Zack LaVine whether it’s a player to be named later there there is an opening there for sure Zack line the name has been

Dropped well let me ask you guys this question because it’s something I’ve been considering I love Jaylen Brunson as we mentioned he’s gotten even better this year seems like the Knicks fans really love him seems like he’s a Knicks player he has that sort of like grinded

Out Spirit to him are we sure this guy is going to be on the final edition of the Knicks when they hit their ner and they get that big star like are we sure that this guy is a keeper long term Becky Hammond has entered the chat Jesus

I guess so can we believe in short Kings in this era yeah I think the important thing is that he’s not the king he’s a king among Kings you know he’s like one of your best players but maybe not your definitively best player and that that is what handicaps the Knicks right now

And that’s okay like it’s okay that he’s just one of the 20 or so best guys in the league and amazing offensively and improving that’s I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with that and this is a team that given its Talent base does overachieve isn’t that what we like

Isn’t that what we appreciate and love about the Knicks is that they grind out games they probably shouldn’t win that they beat some more talented teams they probably shouldn’t beat like that’s an admirable thing the the issue for them because you mentioned maybe this isn’t the year where they make another move I

Actually think that forier contract at 18.6 which is expiring with the way their contracts are going to work in general and if they pay OJ and no and they’re paying Randle and they’re paying Brunson they’re just not going to have flexibility to add another bigger piece

So they kind of have to move that deal for somebody by February and whether that’s just a smaller Move Like Jordan Clarkson or you got Terry roier as another guy I think would be really good for them um and potentially could even play some crunch time or some you know

Some play next to Brunson um but I think they have to Parlay uh forn is something Justin raised a point before we started the Pod R now that anobi has been traded who is our new trade machine go-to guy oh my gosh who’s gonna be the 2023 24 trade machine

MVP because anobi on FanDuel before this trade was like minus 400 to win the MVP and I don’t think Zack LaVine I you know there’s been action on him but I just don’t I’m not buying it is it de jante Murray I feel like he’s kind of locked

Down the favorite spot right Deonte Murray’s a great one because from a distance a lot of fan bases will think that he’s still playing good defense and they’ll talk themselves into him being a great addition for their team without realizing that that ship has has sailed maybe several seasons sailed or is he

Unhappy because that’s that’s a that’s a tough one to figure out because he’s a weird but he’s he stored it in another in another dock it’s it’s at a distant Pier you have to drive to now to access uh but but that’s a perfect one cuz yeah

Lavine think there’s going to be a lot of people as we’re trade Machining who will talk themselves out of Zack LaVine just on principle he’s just not the kind of player that some teams need he’s not to everyone’s taste based on his shot selection based on his style of play or

If you want to win win games and be in the playoffs may be over like that but sure I I take your point uh but dejonte Murray is the the archetype of a player that I think is more broadly appealing in the same way that OG

Is well is the answer right in front of us where Pascal sakam has to be in the conversation at the very least he’s on the ballot if he’s not at the top of it at this point oh FanDuel I just saw Samad shooting up for Draymond Green you

Could have had him at 50 to1 yesterday he’s now 35 to1 I’m not sure what’s going on here that’s a good one this is a good breakout for us though for for top 100 this is a good breakout for us top 10 trade machine guys just like a

Little little offshoot some side blurbs I think that could do good numbers for us so we think siakam’s won or you think it’s dejon Murray I would say Murray won maybe sakam two in the spirit of a fluid list deante is one but he’s probably gonna drop sakam is a he’s rocking

Steady he’s always going to be top three until he gets eventually moved or signs elsewhere Murray is is very in right now Jeremy Granton there BR is Jared Allen on that list for you because he is for me he’s on the trade machine list where like you don’t actually want to trade

Him but you feel like you have to like nobody wants to make Jared Allen Trad it’s just yeah it’s just like oh I need to Center Jared Allen he makes a lot of and seem out of first of all speak for yourself because I don’t think I haven’t

Tried 17 Jared Allen to OKC trades oh I I’ve tried to trade him everywhere too but I’m reluctant to do it like he seems like a good hang he’s a great Vibes guy he’s a good player but Cleveland needs some kind of shift some kind of answer

And he is the easiest answer to provide for by trading Jared Allen here and there but who exactly needs an extra like pretty traditional Center these days it’s a it’s a tough Market if prey gets really serious it’s going to be like the Scorsese movie when like the

Gimme Shelter starts playing you’re like oh what’s going on are we about to have a montage and then all of a sudden he just starts grabbing it’s like oh my God he traded for Jared Allen my God they got Jordan Clarkson and he just starts cashing in those picks because I think

He should I as you know I am a big your window is your window don’t try to think it’s going to be 12 years long Shay’s one of the best players in the world he’s [ __ ] kicking ass night after night now and he’s staring down the best

Dudes in the league and he’s out playing them more than 50% of the time this team with the way Chet’s playing they have an obligation to go try to chase the title I I don’t even think it’s an argument anymore cash in the [ __ ] picks go for

The title that’s the thing about the Jared Allen type trades though is that Shay is one of the best players in the world Chad holgren is also one of the best players in the world and I I want him playing as much five as he can handle shortterm and long term so but

You need you need a you need some sort of luxury security with that in the playoff series you’re asking a lot from a seconde guy to he’s gonna have to play against Anthony Davis in a in a series potentially and yage a gobear towns combo like they just don’t have enough

Size yet so whether it’s Jared Allen whether it’s purle like they got to get somebody don’t you think who else am I missing Justin they got to get some big body I think the scary thing with OKC is I wonder if they don’t need to make any

Move because they could just use this postseason yeah I I just think that they could use this postseason as almost like a test case to see what they actually have with some of these guys in postseason basketball and it’s just like I watched the game like you guys did

Against the nuggets and it seemed like their style contrast might actually Force certain teams to be out of sorts like I want to see OKC against a team like the Timberwolves who is going to play big and has to play Big be able to keep up with the offensive fire we saw

Minnesota was they were really struggling with that with uh they just spread them out and attack them and yeah you’re right I I still think they could improve those 789 spots though at least they could maybe you do a hybrid model of both of those and add one or two kind

Of lower level guys I don’t know and they do have so many picks too where it’s not like they have to cash in the whole Hall it could just be a couple of Firsts a couple of swaps in addition to a rotation player and that can get you a

Meaningful upgrade you know a more veteran player swapping in for one of these other spots but they have so much young Talent they have so many guys who seem ready I I understand the reluctance but yet they’re they’re going to have to spend these picks on somebody at some

Point the Sha the Shay stuff is just ludicrous now like I was looking up different Advanced stats and I mean he doesn’t have a slew of post-ups but he has enough to at least qualify and he was like the second best postup player of the league on top of like all the

Other crazy sha stats he just gets whatever shot he wants everyone’s on a yo-yo and uh I would to see them do stuff I mean I don’t think they were expecting like like this version I was probably one of the few people that was really

Like I think this could be a 50- win team but nobody saw the chat piece of this unfolding like it’s unfolded I mean wild not only is he one of the most efficient big men in the league but he’s completely unafraid at the end of these

Games and um I I just would I would have thought this would have been the year four version of him not rookie year it’s nuts this is how I know this is a proper group chat episode is we end up spending half our time talking about the thunder

One way or another this is this is who we are here well Justin can we do a bit of because W isn’t here and I’m in W’s spot can we all take a swing on what wasa’s reaction to this trade would have been oh yes because he’s not even awake

Yet it’s not even noon on the Pacific time so he’s he’s still asleep he doesn’t know the trade happened he definitely would have found at least 10 to 20 minutes to take a swipe at Scotty Barnes and say like this guy actually isn’t a superstar why are they building

Around him that would have been part of it he also would have made the point about trading draft picks that we were talking about before because was if there’s anything he hates more than Scotty Barnes is GMS that load up on draft picks what else am I missing Rob I

Mean there definitely would have been a huge Julius Randle side swipe in the middle and about how OG’s not going to get any shots even if he thinks he’s going to get more opportunity in New York I’m trying to think of what was is like personality diagnosis of OG and

Anobi would be I feel like we I should know better by now but we might need to go straight to the source on that one if if he’s really a New York kind of guy is my ultimate question answer on I think there’s a zag I don’t want to make it

Because I like quickly but there is a zag for somebody with quickley where it’s like oh cool you were beating up you know the benches on all these different teams putting up big stats but what’s it going to be like now that you have to play 35 minutes a game

What are your stats to look like we’re watching this now with Jordan p and Washington it’s a little different when you’re the guy when defenses are planning against you versus you just get to come in with three minutes left in the first quarter and you get to torch

You know backup point guard dour on the other team I categorically re want to make that one I reject the quickly pool comparison I I cannot abide it I cannot say sitting there for somebody I I didn’t personally want to do it but it was a take exercise yeah quickly the the

The big thing for him is how bad he was in the playoffs and what the reasons were for that that like he was borderline unplayable yeah so what did that mean is that just the spotlight got big he went from all the Nick Buzz six

Man of the Year oh my God this guy’s amazing he’s the best six-man guard we’ve ever had all that stuff too we can’t play him and it was in two weeks yeah and that that would be the flip side of this trade for the Raptors if you’re looking to be pessimistic

About it is there are a lot of bets that Messiah is making on some of these guys to be more than they have been uh getting any sort of shooting and like supplement supplementary creation next to Scotty Barnes is helpful but like it’s going to take some actual like

Thinking and strategizing in order to bring something else out of these guys Toronto has also had that problem where they’ve tried to install this this different offense this season that’s a lot more kind of whirling action handoffs into handoffs into screens everyone’s getting involved and it’s been a lot of possessions that go

Absolutely nowhere and you put RJ Barrett in those actions you put Emanuel quickley who’s a very good player but not someone who has like overwhelming burst and is going to create something out of nothing you can still see a lot of those possessions going nowhere you can still see their offense kind of

Idling even though these guys are both talented are both capable theoretically your spacing is going to be a little bit better but the Raptors still kind of are who they are and they’re going to need a big jump from someone like quickley coming in not only getting his minute

Stretched out but being a different kind of Creator a little bit they need someone who’s able to force the issue a little bit more it would be funny if msai did the press conference and was like I listen I didn’t tell you guys but I’ve been gone for three

Years when we drafted Scotty Barnes I actually went away and it’s other people have been running the team I came back I was like wow we haven’t made a trade what happened and then we did it um big guys that are left in the market if it’s not Mitchell and it’s not

Murray it does feel like Portland has just too many guys and like that Jeremy Grant that’s probably would be sitting there for the Sixers would be my guest as their Target and then there’s a kozma piece I I personally don’t think kozas look that good this year um and then

Rier and then maybe you could you know bottom feed a little bit like what if the Suns get unhappy with Eric Gordon could you rent Eric Gordon for four months and give them picks back that then they could flip for somebody else who what are the other guys you would bottom feed

On it’s a little tougher now that Memphis is more respectable too like that’s a team you could see them being some rotation pieces you could maybe pick off like Portland has them but their best guys are young in ways they probably want to invest in so yeah you

Can get in on the Brogden Market um I I mean the Rob Rob Williams getting hurt changes things a little bit he could have been one of those guys hypothetically I don’t know Justin who who are you seeing here I mean does this ultimately have to be a Warriors

Discussion like do they hit the eject button material change their team does Klay Thompson become available and not only as like an expiring contract for certain players but does a younger team want to bring him in and say like hey can you just rear our young team like

The Grizzlies for instance could use like a steady hand it might be a little bit of a weird chemistry fit after they would be have been barking at each other for seemingly like five years those two teams but like I’m waiting for the Warriors to do something I think they

Need to do something and if they do I think it changes the Market pretty significantly yeah but they don’t you think they would do the Chris Paul expiring card and kaminga or Wiggins versus like I just I honestly don’t see them trading clay I don’t think they’ll do it I think they

Probably should but they won’t yeah it’s too tough when you when you’re up to four titles with with uh Curry and Clay Draymond is the one that I’m watching because it’s pretty obvious that he needs to move on to a different team and I think the fact that they’ve looked

Differently and better without him that doesn’t mean nothing you know they’re four- nine in their last 13 with him um there’s a couple teams that I think could talk themselves into him and just in general now that Jackson Davis is looking like a guy who could play 25

Minutes a game for them I could see uh I I just feel like something’s gonna happen with them on that front I still I’m not as to me I’m way more worried about the Grizzlies like because people are like they’re back here they come well first of all they shouldn’t have

Won either of those New Orleans games they got killed by the Clippers last night and they can’t [ __ ] rebound like I think Triple J had two rebounds last night and zubats had like 20 so you know the fact that not having Adams and not having Clark for this whole season

It’s fun to have JW back and smarts back and their top four are fun but ultimately like they I just don’t think they’re big enough and have enough rebounding to conceivably go watching them against Clippers last night they just got smoked so they would have to go what 34 and 17

Now to get to 44 wins I with the size that they have I don’t see it Rob I think it’s less by the numbers and more conceptually they’re better positioned right now than the Warriors probably are if we’re being totally honest about where those two teams are headed and

Then the suns are a team that could spiral out of control the Rockets are a team that could regress just given the Youth of the roster who they’re relying on so it’s less about Memphis being so great they do have some ground to make

Up but it’s not a ton of ground and so I I could see them making that 10th spot with an underwhelming record if some of these other teams the bottom falls out but as so they they would have to have Houston Phoenix or Golden State would be the three teams unless there’s some

Major injury to a star but Houston maybe the most likely yeah just because their Road records bad yeah they seem a little flimsy but um I the Phoenix thing I you guys we we could spend five hours on that I would I would have no answers for you who the

[ __ ] knows I’m uh I’m pretty concerned about them can I zag again here yes I’m kind of okay with it like this is sort of what we expected if those three guys weren’t going to be able to play we talked about it all summer yeah they have injuries but when they’re on the

Court together it looks fine and in the interim all of this stuff is just a Prelude to that and I know like injury could strike at any moment with these guys Kevin Durant certainly not a paragon of heal the past couple of years Bradley Beal just struggling to stay on

The court and not just roll an ankle at this point but like the the outline of the team that we all expected to just be supercharged offensively is in there somewhere and now maybe this is just because I saw them just completely wax the Hornets the other night but like

Yeah I I could still see it and I don’t know what would take away from it except for another injury but this is the sun’s experience is you’re saying this is this is what we all expected they’re still really impressive when they’re all together and I’m saying this is what we

All expected they’re probably going to be ninth or 10th place in the Western Conference like that’s that is where they are and that’s who they’re going to be so long as they’re relying on not just those three guys but nurkic but Eric Gordon but a whole cast of guys

With significant injury histories well they bet on Beal which was just nuts it’s just nuts I just didn’t understand that at all who plays 50 games a year nerkach who’s hurt every year and Durant who’s had yeah know kind of a shocking amount of injuries on his body over the

Years but what they’re asking for him I really think that was one of the reasons he started to get unhappy it wasn’t even like all the different stuff they were asking him to do on both ends because they were depleted but probably him just knowing as an athlete like I I probably

Shouldn’t be playing like this at age 35 where I have this much of a burden on both ends but then on top of it I’m not really in control of the offense as much as I thought I was gonna be I could see the unhappiness thing at the same time

He you chose this Kevin durett this was this was your pick and they had to trade all this [ __ ] for you with Phoenix it’s interesting because I didn’t think they’re going to be a top three team in the west so I’m not surprised they’re not doing well but now it seems like

They’re doing so poorly it’s kind of amazing they’re 16 and 15 like nothing went right for this team all year and the fact that they’re 16 and 15 is is kind of amazing it feels like their record should be worse so I I don’t know

What happens to them if I had to who would you pick Justin between Houston Phoenix Lakers New Orleans those four teams to drop out of the top 10 if you had to bet on one because somebody’s got a move for Golden State and Memphis Yeah Houston seems

Like the easy pick for me like they’ve had a pretty remarkable start to the season but you’re already starting to see the seams kind of Come Undone with that team like yes shenon has been a revelation he is the blog Allstar everybody loves him everyone loves the

Yoka chess kind of whiffed to him but like even Fred Van Le seems to be grinding away at certain young players Jaylen green for instance hasn’t really taken the leap I think we were all expecting to like other than shenon is any Young play player really rising to

The four there and I think that is the long-term issue if you’re talking about the way that they they kind of supercharg and upgraded their their young shitty team is just like did we trade great for pretty good and I wonder even this season if that is is a high

Ceiling that they might not reach I mean I think they traded of [ __ ] team for a much more stable one and one where like you can see what the floor is now and that they’re building something and it’s it’s not just structurally run Shang but like I think I think jabari’s been

Pretty good um we still haven’t seen like any we haven’t seen anything meaningful from am and Thompson yet so that’s a big upside piece who could come into play for them over the next couple Seasons I don’t have any problem with Houston’s longer term trajectory but obviously I agree for this season if

You’re saying who is more likely to make the play in the Houston Rockets led by ALR shenon or the Lakers led by LeBron James even though a lot of the big picture indicators would tell you the Rockets have been a better team to date how do you bet against you know players

Like LeBron even if you’re comparing the Rockets to Kevin Durant and Devon Booker and like more established players like that it’s just a harder cell admittedly I have the Lakers and the Warriors to me are going to be in the play in the at least the play in but they’re going to

Be in the top 10 the Warriors there’s just they have too much talent you know and they still have a top seven guy and it would things would have to go really really wrong I’m with you probably Houston I gotta say I wouldn’t the Dallas piece where Dallas is getting

This insane Luca year and they’re only 18 and 14 I know Kyrie’s missed some games but they’re so Luca dependent it’s one of those things where if he like strains a calf for two weeks that that team’s gonna go one one and eight those nine games um I don’t see it with

Memphis I just don’t think I don’t think they have enough to to get there which brings us back to the trade part where if they don’t have enough to get there do they do guys like Kar and you know some of their rooll guys become a little

More interesting on the uh on the old open market yeah Memphis could be kind of on either side of the trade and like the trade market and Spectra right they could be buyers or sellers conceivably just given everything they have to work with the team we’re kind of jumping

Around in the standings is another trade one to watch the Utah Jazz I don’t really see them going anywhere you could see a contender plucking on a Kelly o Lin for example you could see them plucking off like John Collins has not had a great season but maybe someone

Can talk themselves into him or Colin ston oh poor John Collins he’s back in the trade machine straight back I just left for four years do you think the you think the Nets could be a trade team I mean they’re they’re already basically resting guys during random regular

Season games like maybe maybe some of those guys are getable for teams that are above them in the standings well one thing for them is they have that Ben Simmons contract which is somehow still has another year left after this but it is a giant contract that you can put

Into any trade and take other teams bad contracts back if you get the player you want um yeah it I mean we didn’t mention bogdanovich on Detroit well you can’t trade for him we all know that you can’t trade now you know the hardest I think I saw and I try

To watch every s the game I’ve probably seen 85% of the season hardest I’ve ever seen a team play against them in Boston was that Pistons team the other night like they went all I was actually really impressed it was a really Noble loss by them but bogdanovich is good like he’s

You know he’s somebody offensively that you could go to at the end the games who’s crafty and can create shots and I really wanted them to win because as you know I really care about this home streak and I was scared of bogdanovich and it’s just that guy makes 20 million

A year and could be a somebody on one of these playoff teams we’re talking about that’s probably that’s really the only one I think on other than Isaiah Stewart who I think is another blog guy MVP I think everybody loves Isaiah Stewart pretty cheap contract he’s got a poison pill

Thing but for a team like OKC that to me he’s the perfect OKC guy like if they could get him unbelievable in order to trade for any of the Pistons guys you just have to be so sure that their fit with you is better than the fit with the

Pistons because there is that thing where it’s like if they were this valuable if they were this good wouldn’t the Pistons have won a single game in the last three months so you have to kind of work around those kinds of things logically speaking but yeah

Boon’s been the kind of player who could benefit a lot of teams for a long time and honestly to kind of to kind of close the loop on this conversation the kind of like a weird offensive blueprint for what you would want OG anobi to be right

Like not just a guy who catches in the corner but who can catch and attack who can catch and move who can catch and pass and make the next play and we’ve been waiting for that stuff from OG for a long time he’s flashed he’s flashed

Some of it he it seems like the things he wants to do are not necessarily the things that are contributive to help healthy offense sometimes but he’s so talented he’s so athletic he’s so big like the the bones are there of someone who could be a more interesting

Offensive player if the Pistons trade anyone from this team do you think like the like the entire candelo family just descends upon Detroit and just like starts filling in rolles here like how are the Pistons going to trade off and the NBA be okay with that it’s a great question you were you

Were talking about in anobi it’s year seven you kind of are who you are like we’ve all been working with W for a while W wasn’t going to be up at 10 o’clock for the for the OJ anobi got traded call he’s just he’s can still be asleep with his notifications

Off Oobi it’s year seven you are who you are you’re going to get Steals and blocks you’re going to be a really good defensive player you’re going to make open threes but do I want do I want to ISO you on the right side with four

Minutes left and have you try to beat somebody no I don’t but I like him yeah like what’s what’s the salary for him Justin is he is it 120 for four do you go higher than that it’s a pretty depressed free agent market and you got

A lot of teams with cap space too that’s the problem I I just think there only takes one or two guys and then all of a sudden this guy is making his max and I think you probably have to trade with him assuming that you’re going to have

Overpay to keep him otherwise Winn why do this yeah I mean I guess the rose family might have a discussion or two over the holidays that where they could maybe not talk about this or pretend that they talked about it so I could see it um well they also have hartenstein is

A Max guy right like is he no question just max him out is it like what is it 250 for five yeah 120 for 120 for OG I’m I’m taking the over on that I think he’s going to make more I don’t know that I

Feel good about it but RJ just made he’s do what 107 or so 108 or so over four years I I think OG’s gonna gonna shoot that market by a pretty wide margin do you guys buy into the theory that when the fans of a certain team seem to be

Aligned on a guy they’re watching every day one way or the other that that has real Stakes for you because I find that I do trust that with people that I know are actually watching and like I said earlier all my Nicks fan friends were

Kind of like H RJ like they they were pretty disgruntled and then you would have a moment where he’d have he’d have he’d have those stretches where he’d have like a good like 10 days and they’d be like R.J it’s happening and then it would kind of fade off again I I don’t

Know a Nicks fan who’s like oh my God I can’t believe we gave up RJ I think you’re describing how kinon took off also it’s just like group think is is is not always the best thing the the origin story of Q andon was a bunch of people

On a subreddit being very angry about Dwight Powell together and then that led to everything you know that led to Pizza gate that led to the whole the whole reel of things so I think we’d be very careful about this kind of radicalization Bill I do feel like

People watch the same players day in and day out like Pritchard who is somebody I think the Celtics might actually potentially trade by February why and I like Pritchard there’s teams with length that he becomes it just is a problem for him when you when he’s playing one of those

Teams that’s just long everywhere it’s really hard for him to get a shot off to get his stuff off in traffic but he’s also he’s he’s such a smart offensive player for what his skill set is like he figures out how to do it but I just there’s certain teams in the playoffs

That I think he’s going to be a liability for them and I wonder if they see it um and you can’t switch with him on defense and smarter teams Target him like that Golden State game was instructive where they kept kept Horford out there and it was like minutes 31

Through 40 really they should have brought in Pritchard and gone a little smaller and just tried to switch but they couldn’t do it with Pritchard so that’s something like I just feel that way because I’ve watched all of pritchard’s career and I don’t know if

That shows up in the stats but I also might have seen too much of them that’s the the flip side of this is when you’re watching the same guys over and over again you start picking things apart and and kind of going glass half empty yeah that’s where the intimacy obviously of

Watching someone repeatedly and seeing the whole Arc of their career you see them against different kinds of matchups you see them in different roles that stuff is all really helpful I think with fan bases where it gets tricky is when you’re talking about just the players

And how did they play in this game the seventh and eighth guys on those teams just get roasted for their weaknesses and then when it comes time for us to make up some fake trades and we’re trying to put the seventh or eighth best player in a deal it’s like we couldn’t

Possibly part with that guy he’s he’s too essential to the infrastructure of our team so it’s almost like the contest of how they’re talking about them is as important as how they actually feel about them so Jus who won the 2019 draft then because RJ just got

Traded J just is coming off a 25 game suspension and Zion is is created the first ever basketball reference page where your stats get worse every year all over the place and he’s getting like off-centered giant crosses tattooed to his body I don’t know if you guys saw that where

Like man that guy should not be taking shirtless photos right now cuz all I saw was like how much extra holiday he probably relax again relax but I mean like J is definitively the best player or the most productive player out of all of these and I still take even though he

He has some interesting choices with his career and his lifestyle I I still think you take the beted on jaw that he could figure that out rather than Zion who needs to be motivated and R.J who let’s just be frank he’s just okay he’s pretty good he’s never going to be great

Yeah he’s a distant number three not exactly a hitters team behind those guys though you know you’re DeAndre Hunters you know your Jared Culver’s your Jackson haes gar Garland’s and hey Kobe white laflama Blanca as we know him Justin off off to a hell of a start this season or really

A hell of a Resurgence this season so there there’s some players to like and more on the role player end of the spectrum some guys to like but at the top it’s tough when even the best most talented prospects the guys who are supposed to be not just franchise

Changers but League Changers have had such huge questions around them and that R.J is just kind of shuffling around in relative anonymity in the biggest Market in the world and now back back on home turf a n a Native Son returned to Canada returned to Toronto or I’ll have I love

It would you rather have Kobe white or RJ Barrett I think I’d rather have Kobe white I think so too now yeah what is our level of confidence that Kobe white is in fact Damien Lillard because it sure seems like it so you would if you redrafted this jaw

First where would you take draft oh my gosh Garland Garland has to be ahead of Zion at this point right like if the if the Pelicans called the Cavs and said we’ll give you we’ll give you Zion for Garland right now no questions asked I don’t think the Cavs do

It what do we think Garland’s ceiling is though I I think higher than what we’ve seen yeah I just think he’s be such a liability in the playoffs that like I he’s a classic example of the type of guy who might be successful and then will surge you to the second round then

All of a sudden he’s getting picked on Justin we’re not inviting you to the lit dares Garland cook barbecue that we’re having in mid January I know Rob Rob you’ll be there you’ll bring some barbecue sauce I’m I’m always in for a Darius Garland barbecue of any kind but

I I can’t pretend I don’t have concerns I can’t pretend that these New York Knicks didn’t put those concerns in my head of just like him feeling so small against those kinds of matchups in the playoffs yeah that’s fair so would you take Garland or

Zion I would take Zion I would too I think iar I think I’d take Garland upside um man Grant Williams was a top 10 guy from that Draft

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons joins Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney on ‘Group Chat’ to react to OG Anunoby getting traded to the Knicks and RJ Barrett heading to Toronto with Immanuel Quickley.

For more from The Ringer:
Shop: https://theringer.com/shop
Website: http://theringer.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ringer
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ringer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ringer
The Ringer on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/theringer