Chase Down Podcast Live, presented by fubo: New-Look Raptors Drop Cavaliers

Chase Down Podcast Live, presented by fubo: New-Look Raptors Drop Cavaliers

He This crowd Rises to its feet Theo slammed it home garlet left wing free ball perfect G one of the lane lock the boldly pow and Allen blocked the shot at The Rim Pow with the left hand and a foul welcome to the chased down podcast part of the Cavs media family I’m your

Host Justin Rowan the chase down is presented by fubo the official streaming partner of the Cavs watch over 350 channels of live sports and TV including Bal Sports Ohio without cable there’s no cost and no commitment try for free at fubotv.com Cavs the Cleveland Cavaliers have lost two straight games against the

Milwaukee Buck and Toronto Raptors in similar fashion and joining me today to discuss it is my co-host Carter Rodriguez Carter how you doing buddy I’m dragging ass buddy uh uh your boy went out for New Year’s last night with the wife he got a hotel room and everything

First night away uh since uh since the little ones been around uh so you know uh got after a little bit not too much but you know I could have used an early I could have used an early bedtime uh tonight but here we are you know I’m I’m

Here though you know I’m playing hurt um but you know like the like the great I feel like the the best case scenario is you don’t even notice it on once we get rolling I mean you you sound great still so that that’s that’s a plus usually

When I’m I’m out and about uh my voice tends to suffer for a few days so well I didn’t go to like a rager I I I went to a nice uh a nice dinner uh that just extended into the into the latter stages and you are an animal I’m I’m a very

Person I’m a very loud person happy New Year Carter Happy New Year to our listeners unfortunately we did not start the new year on the right foot as the Cavs lost to the Toronto Raptors always a tough one for me personally I believe the Cavs are now 1 and 10 in their last

11 games in Toronto which sounds right uh often you know we have been uh short-handed in a lot of these matchups or in weird scheduling situation so I’m going to break out excuses right off the bat uh cuz my pride won’t let me to not

I think God just hates you I I can’t rule that out I really cannot rule that out but it is interesting so I I look at these two losses that the Cavs have had um Donovan Mitchell has returned for the Cleveland Cavaliers obviously a big plus

I think he has been terrific in both of these games I’ve really liked his overall game um but you look at the two losses and in both of them the Cav struggled from behind the three-point line generated good offensive looks I think uh a lot of nice open looks from

Three that just didn’t go down and the other thing has been they haven’t got to the free throw line at the same rate as their opponents uh Toronto had 14 more attempts uh than them uh and Milwaukee I believe was 19 19 they’re minus 33 in free throw attempt differential the last

Two games not a lot of fun and 79 18 of 79 from three the last two games so you know as we are often a process over results podcast I I think we will live with a lot of the process especially with the three-point looks that they’ve

Generated but you know this was a tough loss because this was a game that even though the Cavs were a underdog uh from a betting standpoint coming into this game it was a game that the Cavs could have won um and they gave themselves opportunities down the stretch they got

Consecutive stops when they needed to uh and just weren’t able to convert some of those looks uh Donovan Mitchell post game um did mention that you know some of that’s on him uh both from you know a decision making and shot making standpoint um but you know It’s just

Tough because the Cavs have done such a good job over this stretch navigating the injuries overcoming showing a lot of toughness I thought they showed toughness coming back from down 19 and not letting some of the calls and bad breaks get to them in this one but they

Just ultimately weren’t able to come away with a win yeah I do think it’s probably for the best that we differentiate a little bit between the Milwaukee game and this one just in so far as I thought they played an A+ game in Milwaukee I really did uh they just didn’t

Finish plays they just didn’t hit their shots and that’s tough you know no one likes to see that but I thought they played a great game pretty much start to finish uh in Milwaukee is obscenely talented and um you know they got they got some breaks down the stretch and

They were able to win this one I think was a bit more of an up and down performance to be sure um you know a little slop uh I you know and it kind of felt like at various times just certain things Toronto was doing the the Caps

Just didn’t have the Personnel to match I mean the that first quarter the second unit just got run off the floor you know that wasn’t that wasn’t shop making that wasn’t um you know bad breaks that was oh we don’t have the personnel and and you are attacking us in all the right

Ways and it’s it’s it’s interesting too because you look at that like this matchup in general I I think is tough because Toronto is a team that has a lot of length and they put a lot of pressure on you at the rim and obviously without Evan Mobley you’re not going to be

Playing with one of those Elite Rim protectors at all times so that second uh or that first quarter uh stretch where the the second unit really kind of gave Toronto their lead and was ultimately the the hole that was toughest to overcome for the Cav this in

This game that I I really felt like the point of attack defense was kind of letting them down because Tristan isn’t going to be the type of guy that um cleans everything up uh I didn’t think it was a particularly good shift uh from Craig Porter Jr from that standpoint I

Thought he was being a little too active but not in the best position like he he let his guy get by him a couple times I think Gary Trent jior blew by him and then got him on a pump fake uh to get to the free throw line um you know yangang

Really really struggled in in those minutes and that’s that’s one of those good thank goodness he had such a nice run in the fourth because this I think I think we might even be open in the game talking about how rough those n minutes were to start the game right and when

You don’t have strong point of attack defense against a team with this kind of length that that can get to the rim at will pretty much that’s really going to make things tough and W with the trade that Toronto made like I know OG and

Noi’s a very good play but I truly feel like Toronto became a better team as a result of the the deal because they have two guys that are now actual C actually capable of putting the ball on the floor I think quickly is the most dynamic

Guard they’ve had in a very long time uh Fred Van vet some of it was he didn’t have a a pick and roll partner but he would just kind of float outside the three-point line a lot of those games and quickly is someone that runs a good

Pick and roll with with purle um right off the bat they had chemistry he just he has that floater game uh he still gives them them length RJ Barrett even though his playmaking isn’t strong he is one of the few wings that will post up a

Mismatch at any time and and can get to the free throw line so I think they bring a lot of what Toronto needed and makes their entire roster make more sense like cakam makes more sense now that he has actual Playmakers to play off of yeah and he was awesome and I

Agree it was a great trade um for Toronto I think Toronto got a lot better and maybe New York got better too I’m not sure um uh I’m less on that front but I mean they looked very very good today and beating the the best team in

The West in Minnesota um so you know you got to give them their flowers there they certainly got harder for the Cavs to beat because OG is a nightmare for a matchup for Donnie historically um you know going back I do want to go back to the Nang thing because I was thinking

Like you know why obviously embiid is a defensive player of the year level Defender he is an just a monstrous figure in the paint and you know cleans up a lot of Gunk but what you know why why does it feel so much more challenging with Nang and I think a big

Part of it especially with their lineups the Cavs are playing right now is that the Sixers always had like another really big wing and Tobias Harris out there you know uh that that was playing a lot of those minutes alongside Nang and you know like what I and we also

Have the problem of we we’re not often playing a big Wing that can go guard a guy like cakam so guess who’s got to do it it’s got to be Jared so guess who’s guarding yaka peral and acting as your primary rim protector George Nang like the like this team really stresses a

Little bit of the lack of lineup versatility the Cavs have uh they’re so small in the perimeter still and you know for all the calls for more Marl minutes for more cpj minutes guess what you’re going to be even smaller so it’s like it’s just I feel like it’s a really

Hard context for a guy like Nang to succeed in defensively and then obviously the offense is just come and gone you know he only got up one three-point attempt tonight um and some some odd uh some odd drives that just kind of didn’t work uh he threw up some

Floaters that did work uh later in the game which was awesome but yeah I was just thinking about like I just feel like this this Raptor team is kind of tailor made to expose that like they just aren’t well built to protect a guy like Nang now uh being as thin as they

Are and when Nang was added to this team we acknowledge right off the bat that there’s going to be matchups where it’s going to be harder to play them against and I think Toronto is one of those it’s just unfortunate that you know you’re down mob so your four spot rotation

Becomes a little more difficult I think this is one Wade had a bad game yeah Wade had a bad game and honestly you look at the three-point volume for Nang stru and Wade I think to some extent it’s reflective of the ball movement or lack thereof from the Cavs tonight I I

Thought in the second half even though the Cavs had their run um where where they were hitting some threes it was pretty stagnant I didn’t feel like they were getting a lot of good offense and after what maxu did to Toronto in the last matchup where he just absolutely

Exploded in that third quarter it really seemed like it was a point of emphasis for them to Shadow him off ball to stay in his jersey to not allow him to kind of get free and that of course also takes away the second playmaking from streu because he he’s not catching the

Ball with advantage or attacking close outs or things of that nature so I I think when you see the lack of three-point volume from those guys you got to give Toronto some credit uh for for their off ball defense and the length that they have but it also makes

The lack of shooting or or the poor shooting I should say the 12 of 36 on the looks that you did get so much more painful because you know a lot of those were open Clean looks that the Cavs just weren’t able to convert on yeah man it’s

Just uh it was a weird game um and and I think your your spot on the stru stuff I I really think he’s been missing moyy recently I think he’s like something like 20% over his last five games uh from three um uh it’s it’s just not it’s

Not he’s not hidden um and uh five tonight and uh he had the tough one waved off where I think that was the first time I’ve ever seen in transition where they they said that he had stepped out of bounds I would have L to see rep

I don’t think he was out of bounds I we didn’t have a clean angle uh but it looked pretty pretty clean to me I I got the Toronto broadcast so um I was never shown a replay of that there there I was so mad at the factual erors like they

They said that the Cavs had blown a 15-point fourth quarter lead against Milwaukee um which obviously the Cavs won the fourth quarter against Milwaukee so that’s not exactly possible um and then they also said the uh 4-2 stretch that they had prior to that was Donovan Mitchell uh carrying the team which of

Course he did not play the majority of those games so I was I was frustrated throughout the night for for I can’t believe you don’t watch on mute buddy this this this is so built to to to trigger you um I know but but yeah I mean ultimately it just it’s one of

Those things where it’s really hard to you know part of you does want to just say hey they’re not getting to the line and they’re not hitting their threes and that’s a that’s a pretty deadly combo though they got to the line quite a bit tonight they just didn’t get to the line

Uh 40 times though there was there was there was some intentional fouling there at the end that that pads those numbers if we’re going to if we’re going to be fair so I I I don’t know I would say the the of of the losses I would say the

Milwaukee one was certainly the more in encouraging one um but like I do think there’s just a little bit of the fact that it’s just hard to lose any games that you think you should probably win right now I know again they were dogs but like the Raptors were 12 and 20

Yeah and the reality of this stretch is the Cavs have to play very hard and they have to play very consistently with you know short-handed Personnel in order to have a chance to win like that Dallas game you you as much as we talk about you know poor shooting Lucky in some of

These games they shot the lights out against Dallas like they were phenomenal they had positive shooting luck in that game uh Luca donic you know was limping around in the second half and just wasn’t as effective he he missed the next game or two after that I

Um so like there was a lot of things that went their way in a season that hasn’t gone their way um but you just can’t have a stretch like you had tonight where you know the the second unit um was just so bad um that it

Really put them in a hole that was tough to overcome because the starters by and large were really good but you just had uneven play whether it’s you know Nang having a tough first shift and then uh playing better in the third quarter Isaac okoro had a really quiet first

Half and this is another one of those kind of tough matchups for a Coro on the other end of the floor where it’s tough for him to get going offensively but he was a big part of the Cavs comeback where you know his point of attack

Defense was on point uh he was really really good on Barrett in quickly yeah and Barrett had five turnovers in this game a lot of I think almost all of those were live ball turnovers that led to transition points uh ororo was fantastic finishing in transition there

Um obviously Sam Merrill uh was was great in the fourth quarter and had a a nice stretch for them like I I do actually want to talk about saml because this has been a bit of a talking Point post game at least in our Discord and whatnot so Merill plays the first six

Minutes of the fourth quarter uh Cavs go up three in that time uh The fivepoint Possession happened immediately after he checked out but so devastating that I thought like that was the play of the game by the way yeah Jared Allen checks in for Sam Merill at the six-minute mark

Because Scotty Barnes was checking in for Toronto so toron was going to their you know fullsize lineup after Merill had played would you have gone back to Merill later in the game uh first off I think alen came for Tristan um no I I looked at the the play byplay it says uh

Allan came in for subbed out at the same time I I’m sure of that because Tristan and Jarett nevern yeah Tristan and Jarrett never played together um except for like a few box out possessions but either way um I think this is a spot where you just kind of have to like I

Think sometimes you ride your hot lineup to the end of the game and sometimes you need to Pivot away and I think JB was right to Pivot away in this instance um the reality and he was already starting to Pivot away where he took Nang out

Like I think a possession or two prior to that or a stoppage or two prior to that um and I think it was the right choice because we saw RJ get into Merl’s chest and finish over him we we saw Scotty get into Merl’s chest and finish over and we

Saw and like you just can’t switch and help you know like you can’t get mismatched in semi-ring this big and I I get it um I don’t think they lost the game cuz Sam RL wasn’t in on down the stretch like they generated clean looks for good

Shooters and those good Shooters did not make those clean looks uh obviously you know Levert also had a little bit of a heroics um on top of that which kept them as close as they were um but yeah I I don’t know that just doesn’t that

Didn’t feel like a a thing and yeah Isaac did take a pretty quick trigger three in the corner but like goes in you know again 37 38% three-point shooter has hit clutch ones in his career I I’m it came off his hand terribly I knew it

Was a miss right away um and it missed back the first one came off his hand terribly the second one I actually thought was going to go in and the first one I think he was a little too open and almost put the ball on the floor and

Then like brought it back up but we would be Hypocrites if we said hey you can’t take those shots because those are the shots that okoro needs to take like I I like seeing him take those shots and to your point like okoro was a big part

Of the The Comeback initially to begin with he had played great in his last shift and it’s just really tough When It’s Quickly RJ Scotty cakam and purle like you can’t switch at all if it’s Donovan and Merill out there and RJ is going to post up Merill every time you

Can’t put Merill on quickly cuz then Donovan with four fouls is on RJ so like it’s just not a position where like you can’t do anything defensively there like I think it was the right call to put a coral back in that game and to your

Point they they had open looks I would say it’s a defensive defensible call you know like I I think like I think this one’s kind of Coker Pepsi I don’t think there is a right call cuz I do think Merill was playing so freaking well and

Like and by the way talk about uh taking the challenge he would he was going chest to chest with quickly quite a bit uh in at the first six minut how he how he competed defensively like I I I really like the minutes from Sam Merill

And um I thought it was the correct call to go to him again uh over Craig Porter Jr because Craig just didn’t have a great shift and U Merill was giving them what they needed on a night where you couldn’t hit threes he was actually going out there and hitting some shots

Yeah absolutely I thought I thought his ISO defense on the guards was really really good whether it was shuder or quickley um it was just you know they were so big they’re so big you know and it’s like okay like if Darius Garland’s out there you’re going to deal with that

And you’re going to help in different ways and you’re going to you’re going to shade and because it’s Darius Garland but like I you know but I get kind of going like hey you know if it’s between Merill and okoro and we need to get two or three

Stops to close this game or up three you know why not you know I get it did you see the Dan fali tweet about Merill oh yeah I did I think it’s one of my favorites I I gotta read it out Sam Merill has the shooting form of someone

Who holds Papa shot records at a dozen dve Busters locations across the Midwest yeah I me so true it’s very true and he’s just and I’m really really glad he had this game by the way because me too he goes on this you know when you’re a guy like Sam rrl your

Career can be defined by two or three game stretches you know there were times you know to to call on a former Cavalier Dylan Windler there were two three game stretches where he would get the opportunity and it just didn’t it didn’t happen he was getting clean looks and

They just weren’t going in or he wasn’t taking them and you know he get then he gets hurt again and it doesn’t work out you know so like Merill goes on that two game stretch where he scores 46 points against H Houston and Utah and you’re like okay this you got your chance

You’re making the most of it and now like maybe you’re going to be a guy who just plays for the rest of the year then he hurts his wrist and you go oh no he he you know he guts through like 12 minutes against New Orleans then you know doesn’t shoot particularly well

Against Milwaukee and you’re like oh man did he did did he just get extraordinarily unlucky right as he was starting to break out so the fact that he comes out in this one after a few days off scores 16 points in 17 minutes spaces the floor well rebounds well uh

Prot you know challenged Scotty Barnes at The Rim on one possession which I was really really proud of um cuz he would have been well Justified to make a business decision there but ends up forcing a Miss uh by going straight up guarding the rim uh a really cool game for him and

Again I can’t help but feel like he kind of needs to be getting run you know throughout the rest of the year if he’s going to play like this like because he does provide something a little different even if that means no backup point guard minutes yeah I was

About to say so you would lean towards him if you’re healthy over Craig Porter Jr yeah and if they’re fully healthy I might lean towards him over either Dean or George depending on the uh depending on the match I can see that because the the tricky

Thing for the Cavs and from a rotation standpoint with JB is it’s very tough cuz right now you want to have Mitchell out there for primary ball handling and then when you go to the second unit you want to stagger a bit and have Caris out there and Caris you know had a

Phenomenal game I thought overall tonight it’s very tough to also stagger Carris and Craig and like Craig needs to have the ball in his hands and Carris is comfortable with the ball in his hands so you really start to get into a tough situation with those secondary minutes

Where you know if Craig is playing off ball he’s not going to have a lot of gravity and uh in matchups like this where where there’s a lot of length he’s just not able to help in the same ways offensively so I I get the case for that

Because if Carris is your secondary ball handler or your second unit ball handler it does get tougher to to play Craig Porter Jr in those minutes it as much as I like him as a stabilizing presence and I thought he was obviously great down the stretch in Milwaukee which showed

That hey he can bounce back from not making the most of his first half minutes but you know it it’s just one of those things where the Cavs just even though they have talented players even in this injured State the fit and the lineup versatility as you said can be

Tricky at times yeah well they’re just real real small on the perimeter and then they you know kind of you know they only have one big that you know one and a half bigs depending on how you know Tristan is running on a given night um and and it

Just makes things weird for them um you know they they definitely are kind of in search of you know some of that flexibility and like I feel like right now one of the downsides of how beat up they are is every lineup has like one scab to pick at for the opponent you

Know um which like of course of of course you’re missing two of your three best players and uh two two players that you know do very very special and unique things for you so of course uh you’re going to have a lot less versatility and you’re going to have to make more

Difficult choices in the lineups you’re running which I think is kind of the Crux of that should Merill have stayed in and the other reason I think you I’m okay with sitting Merill is he played the first six minutes of the quarter you’re not going to play him the whole

Quarter like there is a degree of which like I guess maybe you could have kept him in a little longer but um but you know I think it’s one of those counterfactuals that people love when they want to when they want to pick at coaches which is to be like well if he

Had stayed in they would have kept scoring it’s like well would they have I don’t know would they have not been able to get stops it’s you know it’s impossible to know um but like I thought the again I thought the call was justifiable I think this is one of those

Games where single game plus minus lies U Isaac was minus 18 worst on the team uh in in his 7 minutes I don’t think that really represented you know reality of how he actually played in this game and I thought he was giving him good minutes so I I totally get him getting

Being out there yeah and you you got to remember that these these guys are humans they do need rest they don’t have unlimited stamina if they’re going to continue to be effective but Noah doesn’t need time off Carter and can just keep going Zoom it’s always there

For us it’s always providing the support it’s got unlimited stamina big shout out to zoom support for this podcast and the following message comes from Zoom half a million businesses Connect using Zoom a single platform for phone chat workspaces events apps and video Zoom enables real-time collaboration for

Teams around the globe Zoom how the world connects I do want to go back because I I think we skipped over it uh just a little too quickly of how Donovan Mitchell has played in these two games it is obviously great to see him come back from the illness um and showing you

Know not being worse for wear I I think he has taken on the primary playmaking duties really well um I I had critiques about him earlier in the year in the minutes that he was playing without Darius and I do think that he has been playing more team basketball and I’ve

Been happy with with just his overall game I think his effort has been phenomenal his defense has been great had four steals tonight I believe he had uh three stocks against Milwaukee as well so he’s doing it on both ends of the Court as well as contributing on the

Glass I the one thing I’ve noticed though with Mitchell being back is I feel like sometimes the players he’s out there are a little they they tend to defer to him a little too much when when they played Without Donovan because they understood that they were without Donovan and they were without Darius

They were willing to take those shots right away when they got them and they’re just half beat slow sometimes they’re a Dean Wade critique the last two games Dean Dean especially Dean is the first player that that comes to mind when it comes to this uh I believe he’s

Even in our show notes here um but I I just feel like they need to be as assertive and they need to take those open shots when they’re available and not just look to give it up to Donovan because that was part of what made them

So effective during this run and it’s a change in you know playing with Donovan but it’s not his fault it’s almost a little bit like you know with with the heedles when LeBron and Wade it took them some time to figure out how to play with one another obviously these guys

Have more of a run together but it’s just one of those things from a a chemistry standpoint where they have to be confident enough in their own games to say I I’m going to remain Asser of no matter who’s out there right I think when the Cavs are at their best that’s

How they’re playing yeah I mean outcome Hunters Among Us will that you know that are you know have an agenda will kind of say something like oh you know Donovan comes back and all of a sudden they’re playing stagnant ball and it’s like are they or did they just miss a bunch of

Threes you know are they or did Deen Wade pass up three three open shots that he had uh on on on kickouts um and I think you know it’s clear where I stand on this CU like you know is Donovan pounding The Rock and keeping Sam Marill

From getting up 11 shots in 17 minutes no Sam has been told hey Sam if you want to play for us on the floor you have to shoot every time you touch the ball with with a with a millimeter of space so guess what when he shared the floor with

Donovan he was getting clean looks that he was taking aggressively so like I do think Donovan’s playmaking has been much improved uh comparatively to the first chef the you know some some earlier lead ball handling stretches in the year that I think we were you know relatively

Critical of um and I do think I mean especially against Milwaukee I thought he was phenomenal uh as a scorer uh you know just absolutely Beyond uh phenomenal 14 is 23th in the field where you know of his nine misses eight of were on threes so he went tough game for the he

Went 12 of 13 he went 12 of 13 from two with nine assists and two turnovers you know he couldn’t make a shot a three to save his life uh which you know welcom to the club he had a lot of lot of friends on that bus uh in that game but

Like you know super efficient in this one a little less so um you know when eight of 21 from the field uh but overall I thought he he had another really really good game and uh it’s been nice to have him back I think this is

One of those things where it’s like you do have to pay closer attention if you want to like I guess if you want to be one of those causality people you could be like well Donovan comes back and then they lose two games in a row it’s like

Well you know sure I guess but like I I I it’s not one of those things were like they were playing a certain way and they completely forgot who they were uh when Donovan returned I think they just haven’t made shots and I think you know

I frankly I think they’ve lost it more on the defensive side of the ball these last two games the than the offensive side in the first place uh I do want to talk about Caris I I think we needed to hit on Caris a little harder in this one

Because uh he yet again had a monster game he had 31 points on 20 shots and I’m gonna Little Pop Quiz Justin how many mid-range uh shots did Carris lever take tonight I’m going to guess zero that is correct he went uh in in the strict in

The area he went seven of nine uh in the rest of the paint he went three of four uh top of the break three he went two of five and corner he went over two um I thought this was a really cool game for Caris for a couple of reasons one uh

Obviously the shot diet was awesome he did exact you know he he with with the Raptors playing that high pressure in your chest kind of defense like dribbling into mid-rangers is really not the move you need to get because they going open them because they’re you theying you so hard um and I

Thought his finishing was phenomenal tonight you know I think Carris has been one of those guys that can be a little maddening as a scorer because he’ll get this clean angle to the rim and then just put the wrong kind of English on the layup or or take a bad bad kind of

Shot trajectory against a big or not dunk it when he just needs to dunk it and he was finishing in all sorts of ways he was floating it up over purle he was ducking in for reverses he had that one absolutely should have been an and

One on his dunk where he got hit in the back of the head um just an awesome awesome paint game for Caris tonight and I thought he deserved a lot of credit because you know this one of those games where it’s like hey just do this this is

This is like you you are such a big two guard uh and you’re a good like you can do this if you just you know attack in straight lines and generate really clean angles for yourself cuz I thought he did a really good job he didn’t have to do a

Lot of circus shots in this one it was a lot of I got to the spot faster than you and I’m 67 and that goes a long way yeah and I’ve liked his willingness to to shoot as well uh taking seven threes is great here the the one area where his

You know his three-point shoot shot has really struggled this year is with those pull-ups uh he’s shooting 29% on pull-up 3es coming into this game for for the season last year was 39% and 36% the previous year so uh you know you’re hoping that that uh get gets a little

Bit better but I just really likeed this game overall uh the Raptors broadcast was was ranting and raving about how much they they like Caris lever and what a luxury he is coming in off the bench and um when when he’s playing this well it does make it harder to to play Craig

Right like I I think in games where where Carris is struggling maybe that’s where you go because you need a bit more of a steady hand out there um but he he was playing really really good basketball I think his defense has been you know consistently undervalued

Throughout his Cav tenure I I really like how he competes on the defensive end of the floor I I just think you know people had already kind of made up their mind on on Caris and don’t give him the same leeway as some of the other players

Some of the younger guys on the Cavs get um but I do think more consistently than not he is a helpful and effective player for for Cleveland yeah absolutely and yeah I just I I just thought he deserved a lot of credit for I mean they he kept

Them in this game just like he kept them in uh in in that Dallas game um when things were rough uh and and I cannot believe you missed that that uh left wing three uh where where Toronto messed up the switch cuz that shot has been just absolute butter for him uh

What did you think of his decision to to go for the quick two uh oh hated it thank you actually I meant to I meant to talk about this the Cavs are a quick two team and I would like them to not be a quick two team uh it is such a low

Percentage play um especially since they they’re not doing a particularly good job against a team like Toronto of forcing the ball to their bad free throw shooters like you got to trap off of purle and force sit into his hands if you’re going to play this kind of

Strategy down the stretch um and the reality is the other reason why the quick 2 is needs to be a dead strategy for the team is because of the honorless pitiful disgusting to the basketball God strategy of fouling up three because that’s what the quick two does what when

You’re down when you’re down three and you go for a quick two what you’re saying is we’re going to foul you and hope you split it so we can we would love for you to miss both but you’re probably not going to do it you’re probably going to split it and maybe

We’ll get a cleaner look at a three later in the game that’s really what you’re looking for but with the foul up three strategy kind of pervasively taking over the league so many times down the stretch of games you just don’t get the chance to shoot the three so

Like this is not new the Cavs have done this quite a bit um uh you know and I don’t think that’s a decision from Caris as much as is it seems to be an organizational philosophy of okay we’re going to try to run a set and if not go

Run towards the hoop and get a two but like especially I thought in this I thought in this instance it might have been a Caris decision only because was guarding him at half maybe but they’ve done this more than once and that’s why I think I think it is a coaching staff

Type of decision uh and of course who knows maybe I’m just way wrong um but like the the fact of the matter is I still think it’s interesting as like a philosophical yeah and and it’s I think it’s a bad I think it’s it needs to be a

Dead philosophy it really does because it just the math has tilted with the foul up three strategy that you’re just you you’re you’re now asking for like 14 factors to get to to to happen for that to Happ making matters worse they INB bounded the ball at half court like you

Can do a quick two if Jarrett sets a screen and slips towards the hoop and you can inbound it straight to him and he dunks it and you burn like a quarter of a second they burned like 8 seconds to get that quick to with 15 seconds

Left yeah you can’t do that it’s it it is a losing strategy and like and I just think this is a spot where you’re going to have to you’re going to have to adjust to the times and I I don’t think it’s going to work yeah I I you’ve sold

Me on this um I hate the foul up three it’s gross and I’m so glad the Cavs don’t do it even if they should oh yeah Max dreu blocking Seth instead of fouling him that that’s that’s what I want to see I I want to see honest basketball out here it is frustrating

That after you got the quick two and you’re up one that cakam travels on the inbound yeah I mean it sucks to have a Mis call of that importance and and he had traveled twice on inbounds in the last two minutes which is infuriating and it kind of seemed like Luke Walton

Was like sent there like hey I told you to look for this dude like it’s it’s enough that he gets to travel in elbow his way to the rim all game like let’s at least enforce it there that that was a little bit frustrating but um yeah I I I agree with

You I I wish teams were were more honest and would would play it straight up the thing that sucks is I don’t even know how you legislate that one out cuz like an intentional foul like yeah like it’s just it it’s one of those things where

It’s like it’s not like a take foul where it’s going to be its own thing um oh I would I would have been mad if you know what I I understood them calling it a clear path foul uh when when Donovan was going for squatty I was going to be

Really mad if that was a take foul because um I I think it again it was our our friend of the podcast Ben Cox that said this where if you have to go to review to figure out if it’s a take foul it shouldn’t be like Spirit of it should

Be only when it’s very blatant and obvious um but yeah that that that was very very frustrating to to watch yeah so I I mean it’s one of those things where like yeah like you did you probably should have had a chance to win the game uh and and you didn’t get it

And that sucks but like the but you have to play the percentages here and I just think that that the the if you doing running like a probability model I think finding your way to attempting a three uh is just going to like the the the number of outcomes that lead to a

Made three uh like you know down down three with 14 seconds left I’m sure your win probability is like less than 10% anyway but like I just think you get you get closer if you find a way to jack up a three even if it’s a tough off the

Dribble three for Donovan or Caris I think you have to find a way to get that attempt and then then what you know all sorts of craziness can happen from there you can get Long offensive rebounds that get kicked out for more open threes how often do we see that Justin yeah you

Know Coral game winner against Brooklyn right like the quick two opens up nothing you know it just it just makes it so you have a chance to foul probably their best free throw shooter because they’re probably going to be able to inbound it their best free throw shooter

Uh and and hope they somehow miss both like it’s just like the outcomes are too limited and I think I think that’s something if I’m if I’m on the Cavs coaching staff it’s something I’m I’m I’m taking a hard look at yeah I I I think you raised a good point and also

Just you know having the 14 seconds to get your best possible look cuz when it’s down to that 7 Seconds you can run into the type of situation that the C were on the opposite end of against Dallas where all right you you draw your

Play for the inbound you get the the the the trap a well time trap or something that blows it up there’s just not any opportunities to go to your counters right like it’s similar to how we wanted the Cavs to go earlier in the shot clock of running their offense and that’s been

One of my favorite changes of of the Cavs offense this year is they do go earlier in the shot clock and you are able to get the second and third sets and other looks depending on what the defense is doing so I I I completely agree with that

Um I I think we should also mention that Jared Allen was phenomenal again I I really liked his minutes in this game obviously a career best night for him against the bucks with uh 30 points and I I’ve just been so impressed with how assertive he’s been and he’s another one

Of those guys like when we talk about you know Wade not looking to defer when when he gets the ball with advantage and and everyone else on the perimeter I feel the exact same way with Jared Allen like when Moy comes back whether it’s in you know the 32 minutes where we’re

Playing with just one big on the court and and he’s the primary Center or uh whe whether it’s when they’re together he has the same ability to attack when he has at Advantage when the you know when the opposing Center is looking off him because they’re expecting him to

Pass and set somebody else up I love his attacks and his finish and the touch he’s showing um he had that drop step on on yaka purle late in the game where uh just complet completely got him out of the way and had that nice finish couldn’t believe that that he didn’t get

The and one uh that that it didn’t drop late in the game as well uh but I’ve just been so impressed with him I’ve been so happy with his assertiveness and you know I I I love to see that the conversation around Allen has completely changed amongst the fans they’re like oh

My God this guy’s awesome this is the the top 10 Center like we we do tend to have the the memory of a goldfish when it comes to Cav players sometimes uh but I’ve just been so so impressed and it’s a reminder that hey he just turned 25

Years old he is entering his prime as a player like he’s still on an upward trajectory and sometimes we forget about that with guys that are more finished product already if I may pick some nits uh about his game tonight uh you know as compared to his game uh against

Milwaukee I do think there was a degree of that same tentativeness you know I think tonight was a night where he probably could have gotten up 15 to 20 shots um yakob was playing in such a deep drop you know that possession you cited near the end where you know he was

Running some dho yakob was sitting under the rim so he just drove into his chest and you know pivoted into a like a frankly easy jump hook I thought he had that all night he didn’t take a single mid-ranger tonight uh when when he had

Those with with Toronto in a drop and I think the Cavs could have used some of those attemps um I I just I I do think there was a difference in how he attacked Milwaukee’s drop compared to how he attacked Toronto um and I think that

Level of I think he should rely on that mid-range jumper a little more because I think it’s pretty pure uh I think the numbers back up that he makes them at a good rate I thought I could not believe the extent to which he was taking them against Milwaukee like clearly like he

Was a man possess um taking them from like all parts of the floor you know it was like a full 15t Arc around the hoop it was like his own personal line that he was just kind of operating on an axis when he banked

That one in I was like all right this is just his night y but like I thought he could have done that more you know I I actually think this is the kind of night where he should have finished with you know 20 to 25 points not not 16 so yeah

I mean another efficient night he’s up to 2.7 assists a game full full assist better than his career best um so he he really is taking a leap right now but yeah I think he actually I think he left some meat on the bone tonight compared to how he’s played the

Last couple games yeah and last season he was second on the team in terms of mid-range percentage just behind Donovan Mitchell at 46% uh this year he is up to 57% uh he’s in the 98 percentile when it comes to mid-range jumpers and you know like if that shot is available he needs

To take it it is the exact same thing that we say with with Evan Moy where when the drop is there and they’re giving you that kind of space you have to keep the defense honest you have to take those shots and that that was a bit of the conversation against Milwaukee

Too where it’s like man you know C are six of 43 from three like they should have kept you know maybe they shouldn’t have taken threes maybe they should have gone for other looks and I I think the Cav’s ability to get to the rim was part

Of why they were able to stay in that game to begin with right like I I don’t think it’s like a Boston type offense where if the three isn’t falling they’re not generating looks any other way you need to still take those open threes like when they’re available if you are

Passing up an open three you are not going to generate a good look on offense eight out of 10 times like you have to take those open shots whether it’s the mid-range shot for Allen and Moy or if these open threes I I know it sucks to to miss open

Looks you’re going to have probably 10 games a year that you win because you had great shot luck and you’re going to lose 10 a year because you had bad shot luck that’s just the reality of today’s NBA and I I should give a shout out to

Our our buddy Michael Keef uh from garage beers I was about to bring up this conversation because thought it was interesting I I because he was talking about how he didn’t like the term shot luck and I I know some of our listeners feel the same way um and he says you

Know like it really has to come down to it to execution of hitting those looks and I agree with them there’s a luck component there’s an execution component but whether you side with luck or execution the end result from an analysis standpoint is the same thing they got to make shots like that’s

There’s nothing interesting that you can add to the conversation in my opinion it’s whether or not you make shots and from an analysis standpoint I always just default to are you producing or are you generating wide open looks for yourselves or are you giving up wide open looks for the opponent if the

Answer answer is no and uh you know uh you’re not giving up open looks but the opponents are are hitting everything that’s negative shot luck it sucks it happens you know sometimes throughout a season but like from an offensive standpoint if you’re getting open looks you have to take those looks whether you

Want to call it execution whether you want to call it luck it’s a bit of both but the end result is the same you got to you got to make those looks yeah I think it’s it’s all wallpaper in the end for the same conversation you know one

Thing that I do think is kind of funny is um I do feel like if we started saying uh shot execution instead of shot luck I think people would kind of be would only want us to define the Cavs shooting by execution like it’ll be execution if it’s the Cavs it’s luck if

It’s the other team like if the other team the other team misses a bunch of open threes that we won’t be like oh we got lucky or we we will be like oh we got lucky not uh not not that they didn’t execute well you know um so like

It I just feel like it’s kind of one of those sneaky ways I try to point that out I TR point of course of course I I just think it’s all you know so whether you call it luck whether you call it execution what we’re really trying to

Say is we cannot control how well a shooter shoots on a given night and there is a lot of evidence to suggest that even the best Shooters run hot and run cold on given nights and sometimes it leaves their hands really well sometimes it does Jaylen Brunson went

One of nine from three uh today but you know Steph Curry didn’t he go 0 nine in the finals I’m sure I’m sure Jaylen Brunson would say I shot like you know crap um but like but like you know the reality is over the course of a

Sample I think that’s I think I think it’s kind of an analytical way to describe it as luck we’re not just saying like oh well the gods were against us on this on this day uh you know perhaps the Stars will align for us better no we’re just trying to use a

Statistical term to to to Define kind of the phenomenon so you and this is also where me being you know a Canadian and growing up watching a lot of hockey like that’s a big big part of the conversation like the hockey ADV fan stats is basically did you generate

Enough opportunities on Nets because whether or not it goes in is very often coming down to luck like Puck luck is such a common term and and it’s the exact same thing when it comes to three-point shots like if even for anyone that’s played basketball like you

Can be a good consistent shooter and you know often that’s reflected like in free throw percentage for the most part but there’s some days where it’s like okay everything that’s leaving my hand is dropping like I I’m throwing up junk and it’s going in and then there’s other

Days where it’s you just can’t get the right feel on the ball and you know it feels good sometimes leaving your hand and it doesn’t go in like that’s just the reality of the sport yeah and that’s one of the reasons why we have been harping on three-point volume for so

Many years in a row now which is like hey if we’re if we’re going to kind of live and die by this thing we’d let at least like a large enough sample that reflects our shooting Talent uh over the course of the year that gives us that

Kind of variance that that kind of plays in our favor so when we have a hot shooting night we’re killing teams not we’re just doing well because we only got up 30 attempts um uh regarding volume uh NBA University just tweeted out Sam Merill currently leading the NBA in three-point attempts per 100

Possessions would you believe that 17.1 believe that 17.1 Curry’s at 16.3 Tim Hardaway Junior’s at 14.8 so he’s he’s in first by a lot that shot he took in transition was psychotic like he hit that and I was like I I I’m pretty sure that was probably the one that inspired the fali

Tweet because oh my God like that that was such a confident look and and I’m just I I’m with you I I think as much as I’m a long-term believer of Craig Porter Jr and I I want him to see him you know depending on the matchup continue to get

Opportunities and if he plays well uh earn more minutes throughout those individual games in general I lean Merill in terms of what this team needs and um you know it it’s tough because we do need playmaking like I I look at the the slump that Max dreu is in and uh I

Think it’s reflective of not playing with you know an experienced point guard we are still down our first second and third spring point guard and you look at the difference in shooting percentage for him in games where Garland plays and not it is staggering um but you know

Ultimately I I think getting shooting really matters and I I honestly think Merill runs good offense like he’s not just floating around the three-point line he got to the basket and had some nice finishes in this one he makes the right passes I think he uh competes well

Defensively and is in the right position so I I just I I think from an experience standpoint from an execution standpoint and just understanding what the offense needs in the stretch I I tend to lean Merill yeah I think that’s uh that’s fair and I agree with you buddy uh I think I

Think if if the core lineups are not going to be high three-point shooting lineups then you need to inject it everywhere you you can find it you know I’ve said this you know this was kind of a big part of the thesis of why I liked

The idea of bringing in a struin and a yang this offseason was like hey our starting five are you know we’re going to be starting two dudes and playing two dudes 30 plus minutes that will likely attempt to zero three-point attempts so if we want to be a 40 plus attempt team

Then everyone else has got to be willing to shoot you know um and like I think you know merils clearly demonstrated that in Spades you know I mean leading the league and and uh in Comfort level and letting that thing fly and I I want

To continue to see it MH before we wrap this up Carter I I want to get your thoughts what did you think of the New York Knicks trading their best two young Assets in terms of players uh to the Toronto Raptors it seems a little bit

Odd um you know I it it it’s just such an interesting tra trade you know because yeah they didn’t touch their their pick stash at all um and you know it’s it’s an enorm I think they had eight they have eight tradable firsts correct um which is a lot more than most

Teams now a lot of those firsts are you know in of the variety that are like protected for nine years and yeah and and you know predictions are insane on them yes and and are really hard for them to convey and actually turn into first of any value um but with that said

I do think it’s interesting I do think it means that if they were going to try to trade for a true third star because I think even the biggest Oobi fans would tell you he’s a high-end role player um you know he’s he’s kind of a kind of

A great fifth guy in a starting lineup or fourth guy in a starting lineup not not a high volume Superstar um if they want to find that it does seem like they’re going to have to get a lot more creative they’re probably going to have to take you know because most teams

Trading a star are going to want an elite player an elite young Prospect and a boatload of picks these days yeah um and you know like and if if you want to buy a great player with picks only it’s probably going to be in that Deon Murray

Class of you know that sub that guy that might make one or two all stars in their career kind of TI it’s been all the follow-up reporting too right from from Nicks beat writers and whatnot yeah so like it if they want a a super duper

Star it’s going to have to be one of those things where they go get a young Prospect with three or four of those firsts and then get that and re route that to whoever they’re getting the star from with another three first it’s it gets a lot more complicated I think the

Fact that Grimes has kind of stalled out is a real problem for them on that front like you kind of thought Grimes could be that next young stud that you know if he and quickly had equivalent value how nice would that be um and and of course

They’re going to have to pay OG so it’s not like they’re going to be a free agency player anytime soon um so like I think they’re to that star has gotten a little bit more hard even though I think ultimately their flexibility is probably a little bit better just because of the

Fact that OG is so such a great complimentary player you know there was no iteration of the Knicks even when they added a player You Know It’s just tough you know like the Cavs have a hard enough time trying to build a contender with two 61 62 guys in in their best

Five and those and those two are significantly more talented than than you know Brunson and quickly I would say so um yeah I I think it’s an interesting move I think you know uh if you’re a Cavs fan you can read the tea leaves on

Kind of what that might mean um well I mean Carter they it was the worst kept secret in the league that one the Knicks were getting first it was Carl Anthony Towns at the draft then it was embiid then it was Giannis then it was Donovan

Like you know it it’s just one of those reminders that people are going to make assumptions from the outside and there’s always they’re going to be real confidently wrong yeah people are are comfortable with that especially you know content makers like Bill Simmons and whatnot who you know still the best

In the game when it comes to producing content but are going to be loud wrong in the process many times but um you know I I think it it’s definitely interesting from that standpoint and it’s to me it’s a reminder to not let a lot of the noise affect how you view the

League and and your team and whatnot cuz you know people are going to make guesses and people are going to make assumptions But ultimately like all you can really do is focus what on what’s going on on the court um I think that’s why we try to do that on the podcast

Because there’s always going to be rumors it’s going to be noise and whatnot but ultimately what what makes this league great and what why I love this sport is the 82 games and um the speculation is fun and whatnot but we really nobody knows for for for sure

What what’s going on out there absolutely buddy uh and and if I may suggest Cavs fans continue I’ll say it a billion times uh you know watch watch games as a fan um and just enjoy that enjoy the process of of of watching the team try to figure stuff out like I feel

Like focusing on the macro stuff is interesting um conceptually but the second you start letting the macro stuff drive your fanhood like it’s just kind of a road to misery you know because you don’t have any control over it and obviously you don’t have control over

The games but like the games are like what you’re actually spending all your time doing watching so like I just I would always push everyone to that side because it’s just you know in the end like it it’s it’s the more fun way to experience things like it’s nice just to

Watch a Cavs Raptor game and be grumpy about the result without having to worry about like bigger implications oh man we’re we’re just under a month or just over a month away from the the trade deadline we freaking love trade deadline I’m not saying like you can’t have fun with it I’m just

Saying like don’t let that be the number one I I think there is a degree to which it’s just easier for us in our brains as like dorky basketball fans to cosplay as a GM than it is to cosplay as a coach or or a player you know so like you almost

Lean towards what you can relate to better and we all fired up 2K and done the trade finder um so like I do think there’s you know it’s certainly fun it’s certainly interesting it’s just like I’m I’m trying to let just have fun with that side of it in focus more on you

Know for mo more of my analytical mind on the game to game process cuz it’s just frankly like it’s the more interesting thing it’s not only we don’t have control over any of it but you know what happens on the floor is is within the realm of control of the players that

Are on the floor which is a lot more fun than any machinations it’s what we spend 82 nights over a six-month period doing right like I I think that that needs to be remembered uh it’ll you know it’s disappointing that the Cavs weren’t able to to steal either of these games um you

Know I I think bit of bad luck that Toronto had this trade because I I really do feel like it well I’m not even just saying this the broadcast was mentioning it how purle and all those guys were saying it breathe life into the organization like that that Arena

Was the loudest it’s been in a long time uh I think the the Raptors had been kind of stagnant and and they gave them the juice that they needed um but the Cavs now have an opportunity here they you know they’re still a game and a half out

Of fourth even with this loss they have a three-game home stand before they head to Paris with Washington Washington and San Antonio got to take care of business you got to go win these games then after that that Paris trip you’re at the four-week window where a return from

Garland becomes possible uh you know it still may take five or six weeks but you start to get into the possible return for Garland and I I think that’s going to make things a whole lot easier so I I think the worst is behind uh the Cass

When when it comes to the injury luck you know knock on wood uh hopefully we we get healthier from this point on but um I think overall they have navigated this stretch incredibly well uh we will be going live after Wednesday’s game big thanks to everyone that stayed up and

Tuned in after the lost tonight uh make sure you like And subscribe click the notification Bell so you know when we’re going Live on YouTube if you’re listening via podcast and you want support us leave us a reading leave a review subscribe unsubscribe resubscribe and help cook those books if you want to

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The new-look Raptors defeated the Cavaliers 124-121 on New Year’s Day. Justin and Carter react to the loss, Caris LeVert’s big night, trends going against the Cavs and more!

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