Miami Heat: Concerns about Jimmy Butler’s missed time? | Five on the Floor

Miami Heat: Concerns about Jimmy Butler’s missed time? | Five on the Floor

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Insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan scholet Greg sander and Alex Toledo plus others from the five reasons Sports Network all right welcome back to five on the floor here in the Five Reasons YouTube channel and also on the five reasons Sports Network podcast feeds I

Me that’s going follow me at Ethan J scolnick and at five reason Sports and we’ve got Alex Leo can follow me at Tropical blanket today’s floor plan talk about Jimmy Butler here who Jimmy’s gonna be missing another game uh this one because of a toe injury he’s gonna

Be missing the game against uh Phoenix Suns which closes the Heat’s five game Road Trip they’re two and two on this trip which actually looks pretty good right now considering the way that they looked against the Clippers to rebound against the Lakers they got big performances from hakz yic and love but

Again Jimmy’s not ready to play at this stage and right now as we speak he’s on Pace to play 56 games now he hasn’t played the fewest games of the Heats so-called or I don’t know core three players because that’s Tyler hero but now with Jimmy missing this game bam who

Missed time will actually have the most games played of the three of them so far this season and again the games that Jimmy has projected to play this will be the least if he keeps up this pace that he’s played in any regular season with

The heat so what we wanted to do today on Jimmy Butler specifically but on the team as a whole is to look at whether this matters right and it whether it matters in the context of a whole bunch of different things because when I tweeted out that Jimmy was gonna miss

The game there’s a bunch of people who are like I don’t care as long as he shows up for the playoffs it doesn’t matter right but there’s others who are concerned and we should discuss these concerns that that core three has finished and has started and finished

Only six games together this season they they’ve started eight but actually only finished six because Jimmy came out early in the first half in one and Tyler herro came out early in the first half of another so only six we’re talking six games out of what do they heat now 34 20

And 14 on the season and really they’re there because of the performances of guys like hakz love right down the line which has helped overcome not just the absences of bam Jimmy and Tyler but also the absence of Caleb Martin for a good portion of the season and the absence of

Haywood heith for a good portion of the season so there are some that are concerned about that the chemistry between the three of them and there are others that just concerned generally about someone who’s making this kind of salary who’s not playing a ton in the regular season when you’re trying to

Play for seeding and so the team maybe gets in a bigger hole than it has to which causes him to have to dig out of that hole when they maybe might not have homec court advantage in a first round series or certainly not a second round

Series or a third round series as we get to April through June so I’ll just ask you this before we get into the minutia of it Alex are you concerned about the time that Jimmy has missed this year um I guess if you just ask about the the total time that he’s like

Looking like he’s going to miss just at this rate uh I’d say no right because I think it’s kind of at about where he’s been throughout um his heat tenure even if it ends up being worse I think what’s more concerning is his play not that I

Think he’s you know in full decline or anything like that I’m not in panic mode but I do think it’s like if both things are happening and all of a sudden he’s just like not nearly as effective as he’s been for the whole season then I start to get a little bit concerned

Because I I think like even though Jimmy has taken it easy you know um throughout the season before I think it’s there’s a difference between taking it easy and you know you’re struggling because of injuries and I I think ever since last year and and others have pointed this out as well

Ever since he he hurt his ankle in the playoffs I feel like uh he’s been a little bit more conservative about his his Rim attacks and the numbers reflect that and then this year he this season he’s been dealing with the the calf issue right and not to mention the you

Know the the the knee stuff he’s had throughout his heat ten throughout his career I mean yeah like I said like the ankle stuff I just think he he’s he’s looked different ever since and I can completely understand why as somebody who still hasn’t recovered from

A bad anery not to throw myself in there but just in general like what I’m saying is I it’s one thing to play conservative and it’s another thing where it’s like okay this is affecting me so I think that’s what I’m going to be monitoring throughout the season right is how much

Of it is him and his I guess effort versus um you know just is this where he’s at now because like we talked about it before we did a podcast about it I want to say a couple weeks back but like a lot of the stuff that was

There is still there like he his his steals percentage is so down from where it’s been in the heat tenure and that’s something that we’ we’ve talked about plenty you just that’s somewhere that you see you know when he’s locked in and even throughout him taking it easy quote

Unquote throughout his heat tenure he’s been a lead at that right that’s he’s doing about half of what he’s done uh throughout his heat tenure as far as like uh steals per per game and and steals per um just steals percentage but then you look at like the the rim

Attacks that’s also down as well that’s the stuff that starts worrying me a little bit and then funny enough like shout out to dunks 3.com you look at their defensive estimated plus minus stat um this is his first negative year on the defensive end according to that

Stat he’s never been a negative and is has been an overwhelming positive um throughout his his career so like a lot of the stats are just backing up what we’re seeing that he just hasn’t been as effective I don’t think he’s like I said he’s not I don’t think he’s in a full

Decline or anything but that stuff his play on the court worries me more than how much time he misses I think like if he needs to if he feels like he needs to miss time and I know he was playing a little bit more when Tyler and Bam were

Out and doing having to do more than he maybe wants to um then I get it I get it like if he might just be nursing something right now I’m glad that you brought that up about when he does play because I I’m we’re going to stay with when he doesn’t

Play right now but I I think think that that’s a big part of the Heat fan psyche right now related to to him because he has had some performances that have just not been like him uh in a heat uniform and I’m going to get into some of them

Specifically but let let me go through the number of games missed here throughout his heat tenure because it’s a little skewed because some of these were shortened Seasons right so the 1920 season he played 58 the team played 73 okay because that was the covid break

And all the rest so he missed 15 out of 73 the next season he missed 20 out of 72 okay because they played 72 when they came back from Co so the season after that he missed 25 of 82 that was the 2122 season last season he missed 18 of

82 and this season he’s gonna miss as of the Suns game he’s gonna miss 11 out of 35 so he is missing a higher percentage of games than those other games because even if people were like well no even if he plays 56 games games he’s played you

Know a couple Seasons that were close to that yes the 57 out of 82 but the 52 was again out of 72 the 58 was at of 73 so there were fewer games in those Seasons he was missing a smaller percentage so he he’s missing more time this year and

It’s more different kind of things some of those misses in previous years were for personal reasons that they weren’t injury related and so I I do start to wonder what you’re getting into a little bit is not as much decline it’s more wear and tear that again when he was

Signed with Miami I downplayed that because everybody was like oh tibs wor him out tibs wor him out and yes there were a couple of minutes where he led the league in minutes per game I think once he was first and once he was second

And yes tibs rode him hard okay but also there weren’t a ton of deep playoff runs and early in his career he didn’t play a ton like his first first season he didn’t play much at all second season he didn’t he came into the league as an

Older player we talk about hakz all the time um so it’s not like LeBron’s wear and tear where LeBron LeBron is a freak of nature obviously but LeBron was also playing I mean has played what into June how many can how many of his years in

His career so if you add in the playoff minutes which to me are more grueling the regular season minutes at least emotionally and mentally like LeBron should have much more wear on him right now than Jimmy especially because he’s older than Jimmy so I I have always kind of downplayed it

But this year year is the first time I have some concern okay and it’s because of what you’re saying it’s because of how he’s looked when he’s played it’s not because of the time he’s missed it’s because there have been certain games he’s just looked disconnected I we

Talked about the Milwaukee game the Boston game earlier in the year uh the one recently where he came back I don’t know if he just didn’t feel comfortable coming back off the calf but he looked lifeless honestly like there were none of the game turning plays he was just

Kind of going through he was doing cardio essentially and we’re not used it’s one thing to say he’s downshifting before the playoffs and there’s another thing to say that the that the engines turned off and there have been some games this year where it looks like it’s

Turned off even some halves the Indiana game where he went nuts in the first second half he did nothing in that first half we’re kind of like was he gonna engage and and again I don’t think it’s because he’s a personality Pro I don’t think it’s any of the stuff that maybe

Has dogged him in other places or we’ve heard about I just wonder if he’s at this point with where his body is he doesn’t want to push it because he’s afraid of hurting something is that fair that’s exactly what I think it is and and maybe that’s you know some

People might think that’s naive right if you’re somebody who thinks that this is just a start of of a declining player where like he’s still very good and of course Heat fans have seen this before um you know specifically with Dwayne right you saw how you know like I think

Like the perfect example that comes to mind when talking about this is like the the last year that he was here before he left where he still had you know All-Star performances in him throughout the season but he wasn’t the the old Dwayne I don’t think Jimmy’s at that

Level yet but like that stuff happens can happen gradually and there’s some parallels there obviously not the same right like we know the context of of W’s KNE and how he had the meniscus procedure which you’ve touched on Plenty through um as far as how he had that

Removed in college all of that uh it’s not the same but what I’m saying is you know it is fair to say hey maybe this is it’s it’s fair to question that maybe this is just the beginning of a superstar and decline but maybe the the

The the the glass have full I almost screwed up another commonly used phrase there the glass have full take is he’s just taking it easy and and I know I keep saying that but it’s like that’s what it comes off as it’s like he’s showing up he’s trying to do as much as

He can to still affect the game but never really wants to take over and I feel like like we have said that throughout the season throughout the years but I’ve never seen it to this level like he’s had plenty of like stinkers throughout the years right like

He’s had bad games throughout the the years but as far as like consistent stretches where I’m just like okay Jimmy’s not really that engaged for constant stretches throughout the game like he’s just kind of showing up and you know um it gives off some quiet

Quitting Vibes and no I don’t mean it in a way like he wants to leave I just mean it like um you know I I I do think he is just going through it like he’s going through the motions with his with his body and I think he’s very much just

Trying to get to the end of the marathon and get to what really matters that’s what it feels like right it it does to a large degree I I’ll say this um when you look at it this is one of those cases where the ey test and the stats match up like what

We’ve seen and then how it’s projected in the numbers and the biggest number that I look at and then on the other side of this break I want we’re going to quickly get into two things which is one can they win big with him this way okay

And the second question is can they extend him at this level at this financial level these are two big big questions okay because I think one ties into the other um but the thing when I watch him is to me the field goal percentage is a thing like we can talk

About the specifics of the rim attacks and the rim percentages and all that but this is a guy who was shooting basically like 60% from the field after the All-Star break last year okay like he was LeBron level efficient from essentially Allstar break until Josh

Hart like you can re I mean it’s it’s pretty clear you like you can draw the line right there his efficiency his impact on the game changed there and because he’s the type and I respect this about him that he doesn’t blame injuries that he doesn’t want to talk about them

And all that we’ll never know the significance of some of the things that he’s dealt with and and you know I look at you know the wrist in Philadelphia if you talk to people in Philly they say that that was not handled properly and that that’s always affected him and

Affected his three-point shooting since he will not blame that for anything you don’t hear him do that okay it’s the same as Darin ham coming out after a game where the heat didn’t have Jimmy Butler Caleb Martin and hood heith and saying that their Lakers role player absences were more significant than that

Where the coach on the other side Eric spuler always says we have enough okay Eric and Jimmy share that philosophy okay which again I think Heat fans respect but because of that you never get to the bottom of anything so I I do want to get to this question after the

Break though Alex because I I wna these two things real quick here because we’re going to do longer podcasts on both but it ties into this topic because if he’s just downshifting and he’s just trying to preserve his body and he can pick it up in the playoffs again I don’t think

Most Heat fans will care I think the Heat fans who go to around the country like we have there’s some Heat fans who are in Phoenix and like oh we’re not going to get to see Jimmy I saw some of that on Twitter tonight that obviously

Is always going to be a thing but I don’t think that the majority of Heat fans will care if they get the Jimmy Butler from the playoffs last year prior to the Joshua injury but if they’re gonna get the Jimmy that we’ve seen since then then I think some questions

Are going to be raised at that point I do want to mention a great sponsor of the five reason Sports Network our friends over at Water cleanup of Florida you can find them at wcu that’s wcu.com your onstop water and mold cleanup shop Michael Robert and his team

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The Schmutz they got the guts all right two questions here Alex and again we’re not going to devote a ton of time because I want to dig into these deeper but one this level of Jimmy Butler that we’ve seen with say a little bit more of a spike because he’s obviously going to

Turn on an intensity level in the playoffs that we haven’t seen yet uh with this team now what you have haime Haw is now that you’ve got you know Kevin love playing at a pretty high level some of what we’ve seen again not factoring in a

Trade but what we have now can they win the East like they did last year with Jimmy playing like a very good player but not like the elite Superstar we saw for the first month of the playoffs last year um I’m gonna go ahead and might and say a

Quick no I think that’s my instant reaction um it’s just I it feels very skeptical right like like I feel excuse me I feel very skeptical that if he really is just like a little bit worse than he has been and it’s just like you know he’s a tier below right

He’s a tier lower than than you’ve thought of him in the past as a playoff player where he can’t just flip a switch and turn into you know a top seven top five type of player impact wise On Any Given night I’m I’m skeptical I’m skeptical because I think that’s been a

Big big blueprint of how they’ve gotten there in the especially in the recent past because you don’t I mean you know the first season you had Goron who who helped with that and not that he was like averaging 30 for you and carrying your offense but he was such a huge help

Because he had so many big games and because he was a steady um a a steady scorer and playmaker for them as the number three guy I think there’s obviously questions about Tyler um being that guy for you in the playoffs because we haven’t seen it and then at the same

Time you have the role stuff going on where Tyler and Bam are like playing as he like 1A 1B scoring rules that they’ve never really been in for a full year things still feel like they’re they’re being molded there we don’t know if they’re going if like everything is

Going into the right in the right direction there and then at the same time like I don’t know how I feel about the rest of them being enough if Jimmy is not GNA be Jimmy and so if you’re saying like H I don’t know Jimmy’s 5%

Worse than he has been in the past I think that might be enough right but like you said it like a tier below right that’s kind of like the implication there and I don’t think that’s enough for them I think like if if he’s the Jimmy Butler that people how about this

The the Jimmy Butler that people thought he was when he first got to the heat I don’t think that’s enough like I think him playing to the level that he was when he was a Chicago Bull or Minnesota timberwol or like even as a sixer I don’t think that’s enough for them I

Think like the the the formula the blueprint of this build that I’ve this season that I’ve been a fan of is like okay with the re emergence and allaround this of Duncan and him being back into you know what they do you have hakz you have more sides with the wings all of

That sounds really good but I feel like it just it falls apart if Jimmy can’t be Jimmy so I don’t need like I think they have a roster where he doesn’t need to go and give you 40 every night if they’re healthy in the playoffs obviously because that would mean Tyler

Is there but of course because of the other guys I’ve mentioned but if he if he is struggling if he is having more of those games where it’s like okay what are you getting out of Jimmy I’m I’m very very skeptical and they’re going to end up looking like the team that I

Think people have thought they they were supposed to be uh when he first got here where it’s just like a mediocre team I think they could get closer to that even though I’m a fan of this roster but it can’t H like Jimmy having a sudden big

Decline just ends all like the optimism for me yeah I’m with you and I’ll I’ll put it uh like this I I think that this build could get there but I don’t think they’d be there this year so I I think that ultimately and this again plays

Into a contract you’re going to give Jimmy going forward um but I think ultimately if Jimmy you know becomes their second or third guy who can be their first guy on a given night if their other guys have developed to that point and they add more reinforcements I

Think it’s possible but what they have right now as much as you and I are both fans of this build and I believe this roster and I said it from the very beginning was better than last year’s and I think we’ve seen that play out the

Fact that they are 20 and 14 when they’ve had their top three together for six full games they have as many wins as starting lineups right it’s insane okay so and and the SPO deserves enormous credit for that and so to the players who’ve obviously contributed to it um

And you mentioned Duncan who I should have mentioned uh for sure as a centerpiece of that but look in the Eastern Conference this year there are legitimate stars on Boston and Milwaukee okay and Philadelphia for that matter and if you’re going to get past those three teams Jimmy Butler has to play at

Their level he has to like he has to play at that level on and and here’s the thing last year he was he was he played at giannis’s level right uh in that in that series and look with Tatum he was playing at Tatum’s level he just wasn’t

He couldn’t Elevate above him because of he wasn’t quite right by that point but but he has to be he can’t be even at Jaylen Brown’s level he has to be at Tatum’s level he can’t be at Maxi’s level he’s got to shoot he’s got to

Shoot better than 54% at The Rim he has to impact the game consistently as he has done for the most part in his heat career and now that you’ve got Dame there and look Milwaukee is seriously flawed and I wi horse was on ESPN this morning talking about their defense and

We talked about it and the heat believed that Milwaukee I can tell you top level heat officials maybe not all of them but some believe Milwaukee went backwards this off season because and it wasn’t just spite over Dame it was because they had such they have such high regard for

Drew holiday and what he provided we’ve seen Brook Lopez has taken a step back defensively too but one quick thing ultimately in a playoff series though ultimately you can’t have Giannis and Dame playing at extremely high level okay together especially with shortened rotations where these guys are going to

Play more minutes and having Jimmy be pretty good you can’t because I don’t know that bam and Tyler are ready to take the mantle and I don’t think obviously hwz can be expected to do that at this point certainly not Duncan and so you’re at a stage now where the other

Problem is that as long as Jimmy’s out there bam and Tyler are gonna defer at times to him to do things and or Jimmy is just gonna take the Reigns himself as we’ve seen him do at the end of games this year even when he was not the most

Effective player on the floor for the first three quarters and so as long as he’s there and expected to be in that position he has to deliver in that position at that kind of level Ethan one more thing before we close because I know we got to go here um the other

Thing that uh might seem a little bit paranoid right to say but it it’s just to me objectively true is these Celtics and Bucks teams right for however you feel about them because obviously the Heat have um gone past them before even even if it’s a different iteration

Different teams for both sides even if you don’t even if you’re not afraid of those teams as a Heat fan those teams both of them have like depth concerns and I wouldn’t be surprised if both of them like made some sort of you know depth trade by the deadline where

They’re not adding like a game changer but like they add one or two rotation pieces and all of a sudden it just makes them that much stronger because I feel like both of them have those types of teams where it’s like you know yes they they’re they’re very uh topheavy but you

Don’t love the death and I feel like those two teams have shown you in the recent past that they’re willing to make those types of moves and that I think that would make people feel even worse then you talk about like what Jimmy can or can’t play at at what level he he

Like they can get away with him playing at I don’t know what I do know is he cannot be shooting 54% at The Rim it’s insane like I was looking at his uh Rim uh his Rim percentage throughout his career and 10 out of 13 Seasons it’s

Been 60 or higher and he’s at 54 which is his second lowest um only behind his rookie season and then like I said before the rim attempts are down marginally as well about a couple per game or a couple per 75 possessions is this the sign of the

Beginning of a decline or is it like you said earlier is this just a guy who is really just trying to make it to the Finish Line maybe a little both I mean again we’ll be able to evaluate that later but his numbers do look like it does look

Like the top of a decline it’s just with him he’s such a troll and he has been dealing with some injuries that you just don’t know but I I think if you if you just empirically look at it yes it it is I I mean there’s no there’s no question

That that’s what the stats are starting to say you mentioned shooting 54% from the rim he shot 60% overall from the field after the All-Star break including his jumpers including everything so for him to be at that level um you know again it’s one thing with LeBron there’s

Certain things he can’t do that he used to do and he’s not trying to score at that kind of prolific rate and LeBron’s one of one okay so it’s difficult to compare anybody to him but I I haven’t seen the efficiency drop off consistently with LeBron or it didn’t it

Age 34 the way it is with Jimmy so it is a little bit it’s a little bit concerning the efficiency part of it the last part of this and again we’re gonna save this for future podcast but I’ll just I’ll just jump in on this in the

Close the heat are gonna want to take care of Jimmy Butler as long as he wants to play for everything that he’s given to the franchise because he rescued them from the dead okay there’s no question I mean look was Hassan wh signed James Johnson and Deion waiters okay they

Needed a guy who was going to come here and essentially kind of force his way here we know what happened with DNE but Jimmy they got it done it took two two different tries because they didn’t get it done in Minnesota but they got it done after he went to Philadelphia he

Came and as you said he’s exceeded the expectations we thought he was a very good player Pat called him a top 10 player in the league and I don’t know that we necessarily agreed with that okay but with the way SPO has used him the way that Jimmy has developed as a

Player here what he’s given to the organization he has been a top 10 player when it’s mattered okay since he’s been here all right so for that you want to reward it and the heat will want to reward because they didn’t reward Dwayne in 16 and we saw how that played out and

You don’t want to go down that road again but if the numbers keep declining it’s going to start to become more of a conversation as you go forward I don’t think Jimmy doesn’t want to go anywhere I know that anybody you talk to around him talks about how much he reveres

Especially SPO but but also Pat okay and the organization he wants to be here they want him to retire with them but the numbers are going to get huge and then it becomes a weird deal if he’s missing 30 Games a season and you get to the

Playoffs and you don’t know if you have any rhythm and he can’t save you or he can’t be one of your top one or two guys consistently in a playoff series and you start and you’re paying north of $50 million for that and I think that’s where

I I I think I want to see in the second half of this season right now okay up to the all-star break can he come close to replicating after the All-Star break what he did after the All-Star break last year can he ramp up going into the playoffs because when he went into

Playoff can he be what it was what he was before the allstar break I’m saying no I don’t think it’s gonna happen before the allstar break this year I don’t I with everything he’s dealing with right now saying can he be that the level that he was at before the

AL last year well let’s see let’s see he’s got to be at least that but more I’m just saying like you can’t win a championship okay without an A1 you can’t and for those who question whether Jimmy can be an A1 he’s been an A1 okay

But you can’t you you don’t win titles that way look the P the Detroit Pistons of 04 or whatever were an anomal they were always going to be an anomaly or two just like Trent dord won a w and Jeff Hostetler won Super Bowls as quarterbacks but it is not the way to

Win okay joic is the way to win all right embiid hasn’t proven it yet but you would think so right Giannis yes he did it in a fluky year but LeBron yes okay when he’s at a peak level Tatum will’ll see he hasn’t gotten him over the Finish

Line Curry yes it’s a very short list okay Kobe was Shaq was okay Dwayne was in various uh circumstances Duncan certainly was you need that kind of guy there’s only so many whove won championships as the number one guy and Jimmy can do that if he’s playing at the

Level that we’ve seen him play in past postseasons but if you just watched him when he’s been out there and you mentioned it through the first 24 that he’s played you wouldn’t think of him as that kind of player so I I just think we need to see doesn’t need

To be every night but I think you need to see more flashes of it than we’ve seen so far this season that’s all I think to make everybody feel better about it all right Alex thank you thanks our sponsors better Edge use code 5 RSN water cleanup again reach out to wcu.com

And of course sign up for off the floor have a good night everybody thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the fireing sports network after all someone needs to listen to

Jimmy Butler will sit again Friday, this time due to a toe injury, which puts him on a pace for 56 games, his lowest number (by percentage) of games played for the Heat in a season. Is this a concern? Or is it more about how Butler has been inconsistent with his performance when he has played? And can the Heat win big in the playoffs with Butler being good, but not great? Ethan Skolnick and Alex Toledo discuss.

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