Does Joel Embiid Need a Ring To Validate His Regular Season Dominance? | JJ Redick and Tim Legler

Does Joel Embiid Need a Ring To Validate His Regular Season Dominance? | JJ Redick and Tim Legler

Um I actually want to start with a conversation uh around Joel embiid because I’ve I’ve tried to acknowledge how [ __ ] good this guy has been this season yeah better even specifically offensively I think better even than he was in previous years when he won the MVP and came in second two

Times in a row he is dominating and this stretch that he’s been on where he’s scoring 36 plus 3840 and sitting out the fourth quarter now granted and we’re going to get into this a little later but granted some of those games were against the Pistons and the Wizards but can’t deny the

Greatness and I feel like some of the conversation we falling into the same trap that we had around Giannis in 19 and 20 and around joic in 22 and 23 which is like ignoring the greatness and just saying until he wins I don’t want to

Hear it yeah is that fair is that doing is that doing basketball a disservice much less Joel embiid I first of all I I agree that I think he’s making us numb to it a little bit right and that’s not necessarily doing him a favor in the National conversation about what he’s

Doing right now to put in perspective in month of December right now the guy’s averaging 403 and6 in 33 minutes right so he and here’s the thing I personally thought I know how great he is but I thought I’d seen the best he can be like

He’s done it for how many years he’s kind of at that age there’s no uptick from what we’ve seen he’s just going to be that good for a while until at some point you know he slows down or injuries get him or something down the road like

Several years down down the road I didn’t see this another step for him to take and he’s significantly better than he has been the last couple of years when he’s you know right there in the in the race for MVP coming down the stretch of the Season very short listed guys

He’s been that much better because it’s that easy for him right now and part of it is their team I think they’ve got a good Rhythm to what they’re doing offensively I think he’s got great chemistry with maxi um it it’s just he’s got more space to do what he wants and

And the time the timing of what they’re running and when he’s getting the ball he seems so comfortable that this is just completely his show and there’s no answer for it the combination of of power and touch don’t really make a lot of sense it’s it’s it defies what I know

About biome mechanics yeah for a guy to be that powerful that big and and have that kind of touch and finesse so yeah it’s off the charts insane what he’s doing right now and it’s like we are kind of like numb to these numbers because he doesn’t have that thing at

The end that Giannis eventually got that yic got and now I think embiid is going to be part of that narrative it’s great man it’s great big numbers yeah we’ve seen it before hasn’t won and a lot of people don’t necessarily think they can this year because you’ve got two teams

In the East that most people think are better so yeah I I agree with you that that conversation is very similar to what we heard about Giannis and yic the point you brought up about the combination of power and touch I I whenever I whenever I’ve done a Philly

Game I I call it like oh Joel has decided to go into Mash mode which is where he’s just going to overpower you and he’s going to get deep position on a on a seal or he’s going to rim run early or he’s going to get an offensive

Rebound and just out physical you and then the combination of that with just the feathery touch from the elbow and the footwork Giannis you I don’t want to necess compare players but I’m saying like with Giannis it’s it’s a lot of power and Speed and Agility and some of

The best footwork in NBA history um his ability to get out like get out and transition after the defensive rebound and score him and LeBron right now I think are the top two in transition points um and then there’s joic who who’s definitely still has that power

And touch combo I just think physically Joel is maybe a little bit you know stronger maybe a little I don’t know maybe a little but those two guys I think have that combination that I don’t know that we’ve really seen a ton of that in the NBA yeah I love that power

And touch yeah totally and I think I honestly think for embiid in terms of just getting a guy on your back in the low post and and really having absolutely no answer for what to do in that situation I think this is the most dominant back to the basket low post

Player in that setting since Shaq yeah I think that’s the best comparison because he literally just throws guys around and he gets them sealed and there’s nothing they can do but foul him and so he’s got that but then he’s got that mid-range area that he operates in that’s more

Like a small forward right that he can get up into his shot from 15 to 18 feet off the bounce and Elevate over guys and shoot with that feathery touch Giannis it’s like I always say he’s a center with Straight Ahead speed coming at you because ultimately he’s going to score

Like a center he’s going to score at The Rim lead league in pain points overwhelm you that way like like the dominant centers in this league have but he’s not starting down there he’s starting with a live handle coming at you with a straight out of speed right in these

Giant strides so it’s totally different but he’s not going to beat you like a small forward in the middle of the floor he’s not going to beat you like a Kevin Durant kind of player right with a step back elbow jumper that Joel hit like Jo and that’s why there’s Joker yeah it’s

Just it’s just an incredible thing to watch what he’s doing right now actually what for him what I’m really enjoying he seems to be having a hell of a lot of fun 100% with this group and that’s been refreshing too I the body language has has been better he doesn’t get down when

Things aren’t going right because I think there’s just a better buoyancy to them so um no man like catch it now because because it’s like you’re penciling in ridiculous numbers right now um for this guy pretty much every night and the efficiency with level is

He doing it so you have to you have to check this show out now I made uh the comparison obviously very different players but I made the comparison I think Giannis is this generation he’s the modern day Shack like in terms of the the will to just get to the rim over

And over and over again and you know Joel does that to an extent at times and I think the two of them are are because they can overpower you because of their physicality ultimately that leads to a lot of free throws which is I think part

Of the reason a small part of the reason Beyond just the playoff stuff that there’s so much uh at times it seems like negativity towards Joelle because he’s been called a foul Merchant because there’s montage videos on Twitter of him you know taking a bump a slight bump and

Acting and falling so I I I think and Harden went through that too think about when Harden was at his Peak with Houston all that stuff it just like the constant complaining about the foul drawing I think some that factors into this discussion around Joel embiid one thing I find very interesting

Is this has never been said publicly of course but like I think to a degree there was a sense that Harden helped Joel get the MVP right because of that two-man game it was very proficient and efficient um in that pick and role and the ability to for Harden to just come

Off a screen throw a little bounce pack bounce pocket pass Joel the elbow bang right it it was part of the conversation for him to just come back the next year and be like oh now now we put the ball on Maxi who’s a great player but now

I’ve just I’ve elevated Maxi for me too I played there it was like I get to play Twan with Joel oh my game’s going to be better right right he he made me a better player the one point I want to make that I I I just it hit me this

Morning when we when I was prepping for this it was like we have talked about a number of players over the last 5 years and we have certainly give given flowers to a number of players and there’s been a guy like Steph Curry who was the best player

On the championship team in 22 still playing at an all alltime Level Kevin Durant LeBron Luca magic Shay of course it’s like who who right now are the three most dominant players in the league again it’s Giannis joic and embi yeah exactly they are the three most

Dominant players in the league again for what seems like the fourth or fifth straight year yeah three bigs three three basically seven-footers maybe the third straight year for sure maybe I’m stretching it but definitely for the third straight three consecutive years those are the three guys you’re talking about it’s interesting because they’re

They’re me Giannis isn’t a center but he’s got the dimensions of a center the other two guys are centers but look at the way that they play and the versatility with which they play and that’s what kind of separates them by the way it’s a seven game sample size I

Understand for December I talked about what he’s averaging um you know look my best splits in any year were 52 52 885 one year I did that pretty proud of that and beid is right now just a notch under 40 from the three or he’s at 60 40 990 splits in December

So he’s he’s going 4013 and six while going 60 4090 splits 60490 has never been done in the history of the league probably never will be done I don’t know if he can you know I don’t know maybe maybe he is maybe he ends up over 40 I think I think

Durant either was right there or or did it last year but games played he didn’t qualify I want to say I we’ll fact check that um but yeah it’s the offensive efficiency it’s it’s it’s unheard of it’s unheard of what to you because I think why this is a conversation why I

Started this conversation is because Giannis did win in 21 because joic did win in 23 yeah and now we’ve sort of moved past the the the nonsense of the regular season and we can just acknowledge the greatness and it’s it’s like you have to prove it now for whatever reason you

Have to prove it now to sort of be considered a great right yeah what would it take does it take a championship for Philly this year for us to at least give a little bit more credit to Joel like what does it take does it take a

Championship in a in a finals MVP or is it three dominant performances and a Conference Final fin loss is it getting to the like what does it take and in the context I bring it up almost every time maybe one time Philly fans I’m sorry I

Didn’t bring it up when I talked about Joel’s playoff performance he has been hurt damn near every playoff run whether it’s been a knee a fractured face like he’s been hurt and there was a a Twitter user that did some study on astrological signs and why why you in April but I

Don’t believe all that but what what would it take I think winning it unfortunately for him and I think that’s for the mainstream conversation I don’t think that’s for guys like us I we we already are kind of acknowledging it and here’s the thing with embid I you have

To be realistic about who you have to get past for Giannis they were the number one overall seed in the NBA two years in a row when he won MVPs and they lost both times they lost to Toronto lost to Miami Toronto was more a shift

In what Toronto did defense i l in that series and it really exposed Giannis and their team a little bit because they didn’t know how to beat that wasn’t really a set Zone but they were basically playing one guy at the top two guys at the elbows yeah and daring

Giannis to kind of figure out a way to beat them and he wasn’t prepared to do that at that point go from up 20 oh they they lose four straight Miami injuries played a factor Giannis missed I think a game and a half in that series but I

Still don’t know that they win the series so I think for him the expectation level is wait a second you had the best team in the regular season you’re supposed to win it if you’re the best player in the league so he was kind of carrying that weight and then of

Course obviously year three of that run they don’t get the number one seed and I don’t think they were trying to and he has a healthy run and drops a 50 in the biggest game of his life and they win their championship for Joelle it’s like let’s be real realistic here are they

Going to be picked to beat Boston or Milwaukee in the second round or the Conference Finals if that’s what we’re talking about I don’t think they will be so people I think maybe can we he’ll get another pass in that way he won’t be judged as harshly as Giannis based on

The year he’s having if getting to the second round and taking one of those teams to the Limit and you play close to your regular season Norm that’s what it’s going to take I think for for for NB to not take any hits if they get to

The second round they P Milwaukee or Boston they lose in five or six games he averages 19 you know really struggle right I’m not saying that’s going to happen but I’m saying something like that now people kind of go okay I’m not giving you the benefit of the doubt

Anymore about these regular season numbers that’s kind of where he’s at right now so maybe it takes beating one of those teams maybe losing in the other to the Conference Finals but you play the same way statistically that you did in the regular season but you’re just

Not as good as that team yeah I and by the way and I should have said this at the outset I’m not saying this conversation around MB isn’t Justified yeah because we had a conversation where we talked about uh you know basically which players could end up in

The top 15 of all time and look one of the things that all those guys have have in common they’ve won a championship yep and most of them have won multiple finals MVPs or or multiple championships and multiple regular season MVPs so there is a different uh qualification to

Get into that tier I guess what bothers me at times is how dismissive people are towards what he’s doing because it hasn’t happened in the playoffs right and I just fundamentally I just like being appreciative of basketball and great basketball whether that’s a regular season game or the playoffs yeah and and

Certainly the playoffs matter more I’m not saying that like playoffs definitely matter more I experienced it they matter more but let’s just love it let’s love what we’re seeing right now

In this clip, JJ Redick and Tim Legler talk about Joel Embiid and the Philadelphia 76ers and Legs compares Embiid’s dominance to a young Shaquille O’Neal.

Subscribe to The Old Man and The Three podcast w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter YouTube channel today for more NBA analysis, player interviews and highlights.

#nba #philadelphia76ers