Knicks & Raptors Both Winners, Veteran Superstar Struggles | The Hoop Collective

Knicks & Raptors Both Winners, Veteran Superstar Struggles | The Hoop Collective

Hello welcome to the hoop collector podcast we talk about the NBA which we’re doing on Sunday evening actually Monday morning a little after midnight Monday morning joining us from New York City where he I believe went to the Nets Trailblazers game today where the Nets lost like they’re sixth out of seven or

Seventh out of eight right before flying to Paris Tim bontemps they lost their sixth out of seven in overtime game where there were some interesting choices made in the final 30 seconds just like they were in Cleveland to start the day with Victor wanyama and

Just like they were in the last game of the day where you were in La it’s an interesting Sunday of Hoops today joining us from Dallas Texas where I believe he attended the Timberwolves getting defeated by the Dallas Mavericks I think uh Kyrie and Luca donic could

Buy him for like 69 points it was a nice performance was it not ban McMahon oh it was was a nice performance Wendy howdy Partners uh I would say the best win of the season for the Mavericks I think certainly right up there fellas um I’m G

Tell you something just real quick I know we’re not gonna dig too deep into the Mavericks but they’ve been playing defense here for a little stretch and if they are a decent defensive team they have a chance to be dangerous Luca is playing defense quite proudly

Just something to keep an eye on that’s actually a that’s actually one of the most important games on the Slate today I thought no it was a like I said it really was a big win for the mass um you know Kyrie and Luca as you mentioned

Both were cooking but this is they they LED most of the game the wolves and a was awesome the wolves come back they go up six about Midway through the fourth quarter the Mavs close it out I’m telling you the Mavericks are getting the job done on the defensive end

Despite the fact they didn’t have Dante exom who’s one of the best on ball Defenders they didn’t have Derek Livy the second who’s obviously their best rim protector but you know Lucas taken the challenge defensively he had a couple stops in the post on on cat where he’s snarling and

Just puffing his chest out he he forced the key turnover the game where a didn’t make a great decision and gave Rudy the ball too far out on a pick and Ro and kind of put Rudy in a situation where he had to make a play

It’s not his strength he ends up tossing it back out bad pass a uh half court violation and boy Luca he he wouldn’t tell me exactly what he said to Rudy but he had some words I don’t even know what language they were but I bet you they were

Profane to your point McMahon Dallas last 10 games third in the league defensive rating exactly exactly hey and J kid was really hammering on this uh Derrik Jones Jr has been a phenomenal pickup for them on a minimum contract he is you know their stopper like I’m not

Saying he’s all defense or anything like that but two through four sometimes even one occasionally even fives he’s getting the toughest defens defensive assignment and uh he’s been huge for him so I mean there’s some some really good things starting to happen for the Mavericks on

That end of the floor and and a big part of that is Luca is playing hard defensively he’s as Jak kid often says participating and tonight was a big step because a lot of the times Luca gets himself in trouble defensively by just not Crossing half court because he’s

Bitching at the ref so much this man I mean even by Luca standards it was an impressive performance as far as bitching at the refs I mean it was nonstop old Brandon aare great straint did not hand out a te he complained the whole game and still got back on

Defense it sounds like a joke I’m not kidding I’m not kidding if luk because you’re not gonna stop him from yelling at refs the fact he did it the whole game but it did not affect his ability to get back on defense yep that’s a step in the right direction Hey listen that’s

The kind of analysis we have you on to talk about um I attended the Laker Clipper game tonight the Clipper at Laker game uh very La evening here here in Downtown LA we had the Emmys going on across the street Golden Globes to be clear my wife clear to be clear the

Emmy I don’t know the difference to be clear em and the gold gos are both happening today I don’t know what to tell you the Emmys were happening next door to the Staples to crypto.com Arena okay people walking around in my hotel with Emmys I don’t know what you want me to

Say you get one no you got robbed I don’t think you’re correct about think the gold cloes but I could be wrong maybe maybe there’s something else going on I don’t know how could how could what’s going on with Utah not get an Emmy dude it should should Jackson is telling me I

Know that the Golden Globes were happening godamn it I am telling you the emies we going on tonight nobody cares it is very La night they had the chick Hearn Court Drive whatever close down to make the red carpet I I to tell you Jackson saying their next weekend what

Bro I don’t know what emies were going on there was 500 we talk about the NBA yeah we do we doig I being persecuted here you think I don’t I granted I have been on some high power drugs the last few days I’m telling was the emys were going on at

Peacock I don’t know what emms they were but there was it was 500 people in tux Jackson Jackson has more updates so many updates from Jackson the creative arts emms were today I have no idea what that is but I’m just tell there was some em

What kind what kind of dope did you get no I don’t no I was using opiates I should I should prescribed legal legal op it’s uh to be clear but before I before I had painkillers um the other day when I was doing the pot I was I

Mean I’m still not in the greatest uh condition but I was I was uh in a lot of pain as we were doing that podcast the other day and I flat out forgot that we didn’t talk about the Nicks Raptors trait uh so um you really missed the boat on that one anyway

[Laughter] sorry anyway oh man uh the problem I I needed to miss the boat I I I I hit the damn boat I I if I had have gone in the water it wouldn’t had as much of a problem I’d have been wet but I wouldn’t had a broken oh God not

Broken that’s true I I subsequently got x-rays and they they just deeply bruised I don’t know if it’s not broken I feel bad for people had broken ribs because it hurts like hell anyway the Knicks uh performing pretty well since the Trey picking up ojan noi I don’t think they’ve lost yet more

No uh and uh bonts I think you were at um the game that they won in Philly on Friday night and that was a very impressive Victory um just totally smack the Sixers from start to finish in that game um and then they turn around and Julius Randall had a big game on

Saturday um and they won a couple games over the weekend um what do you think has been a a a key here for the Knicks uh because hasn’t just been o anobi um but they’ve uh they’ve got some good play going on right now yeah so Brian to me this is a

True definition of a win-win trade in the NBA just something you don’t see happen a lot when you have teams primarily trading players back and forth and a lot of times when you got pretty significant names like in this trade but for the Nick side of it o and anobi just

Fits perfectly within what the Knicks are trying to do like you’ve got Jaylen Brunson and Julius Randle who are super high usage players and when you had amanuel quickley who is a terrific player who I think’s got a chance to be have an impact like the one Jaylen

Brunson has had in New York with Toronto but tibs has decided rightly or wrongly depending on your Viewpoint of it that those guys were not guys you could play together him and Jaylen Brunson for 30 plus minutes a game so quickley was essentially playing 20 to 25 minutes a

Night was more or less playing when Jaylen wasn’t playing and then he was playing RJ Barrett a lot and RJ is an awkward fit with those guys he sort of needs the ball in his hands to be effective he’s not a great catch and shoot guy and it just was a clunky fit

And now you put an ogn and Obi who is one of the best true three and D Wings in the league one of the best corner three-point Shooters in the league I think he’s top in percentage in makes in the corner this year might be up to top

Three now and doesn’t need the ball is really truly a catch and shoot and cut guy and then on top of that the Knicks had whether it was Barrett or Dante D venzo or Josh Hart or quicklee or Quinton Grimes they had all these basically shooting guard sized guys that

Were playing small forward and oftentimes RJ or Josh Hart would be power forward on the second unit after the Obi toppen trade this summer when Julius Rand would leave the court now you have o G who’s a true three and when he goes out there they just are a way

Bigger team and they have somebody who can actually guard guys like Giannis tupo guys like Jason Tatum guys like Anthony Edwards like they didn’t have a true weapon to go guard those kind of guys which is why the Knicks despite being a Tom Tibido team were 19th in

Defense last year and we 19th in defense when they made this trade so it not only gives them a weapon to throw at the best offensive player on the other team it spaces the for him he’s probably their second best shooter behind Jaylen might be their best shooter and it just

Completely balances out their team and right from the jump you seen Jaylen and Julius play great and the pieces have really fit really nicely they got to make some changes on the second unit they got to figure some stuff out but it’s worked through the first week it’s

Gone about as well as it possibly could if you’re the Knicks with the way the steel is played out then they backed it up by giving Duce McBride a contract extension and he came and he came out and had like one of his best games of the Season probably

His best game of the season against Philly on Friday you know McBride is a guy that a lot of Nicks fans have wanted to see more playing time and now that quickly has been traded there’s a window for him the lick the Knicks lock him up and he’s already starting to take

Advantage of that playing time he’s not the talent that quickly is he doesn’t have the size that quickly does but um the Knicks have shown over the last couple Seasons that they have depth and so if they’re going to make a trade that red es their depth uh which this did you

Know there’s more opportunities for guys which also is taking place really quick on the quick on the McBride thing because it was an interesting little thing they made that trade and before they even had got through 24 hours after making the trade they side dece McBride who played 100 total minutes this year

At the time to this threeyear $1 13 million contract it was a clear sign that he they think he could step in and be the backup point guard first two games he was minus 25 and 17 minutes did not go great then he comes out in Philly

Hits four threes in the first quarter help completely turn the game around and you know is going to have a chance to settle into that job but tibs has liked him for a long time he’s had a lot of success with small guards he’s definitely going to get a chance to play

A lot and like you said we’ll see if the knck were right to make that bet on him let’s not act like it was a huge bet though right I mean he he’s not being paid sixthman type of money he’s being paid 10th Man type of money right 11th type of money

And I still think that you know Leon Rose Gerson Rose s the Nick’s front office needs to be on the phone canvasing the trade market finding other potential replacements for uh Emanuel quickly in the rotation you know I’m if I’m them I’m on the phone with the Utah Jazz talking Jordan

Clarkson talking Colin seon although I guess there’s some can’t be a clutch client and go to the Nick type of thing but Whatever by the way I don’t believe that for a second if it benefits the Knicks they’re getting they’re trading for a clutch guy also by they wanted

Oobi last year when he was a clutch guy and the only reason OG and and Obi left clutch was because his agent left the business so look you know the Knicks just did a deal with the Raptors who were suing them right if you or vice

Versa who they’re suing if you in the NBA you have to do business with who you do business with you can’t hold grudges like that it’s just never going to get you anywhere by the way the Jazz have won 10 of 13 games D are playing great I

Mean I know that they’re not uh they’re in a tough part of their schedule right now they did win in Philly on Saturday I don’t know if um yeah they did that was a great win yeah I don’t I don’t think uh the Jazz are headed for greatness but

I don’t I mean this season uh but I don’t necessarily think that the Jazz are looking to slice off core players I mean if they ja the Jazz won a a lot of games and were competitive before last trade deadline and they still sold half the rotation I’m just telling you Danny

That’s true but they also signed Clarkson to an extension subsequently an extension that is a balloon payment this year and then the salary goes down the next couple of years an extremely tradable contract I’m not I’m just saying I would be calling them I would be calling Washington about a tias

Jones I actually I actually think the more interesting the more likely path I think they’ll take if they’re going to add one piece is to get a big and I the guy that I think would be really interesting for the Knicks is another guy in Washington who Daniel

Gafford and if the if the wizers do look to move Gafford you pair him with Isaiah hartstein you get back to what was one of the real Nick strengths before Mitchell Robinson got hurt which say you had 48 minutes of high quality above average to really good Center play and

Whether it’s precious Chua or Jericho Sims they don’t really have the same thing now even though Isaiah hartstein has been awesome since taking off the starting job for Mitchell Rob son so that to me while they I agree with you they might look to add a perimeter guy

They’ve got a lot of guys who can score I think once they get the rotation sorted out they’ve got Dante D chitsu they can give the ball to Josh har can do some stuff OG can do some stuff um you know they’ve got a bunch of guys

They can throw the ball to they want to give McBride a chance to play I could see them going to get a big um to add to that rotation but look the Knicks are going to be a road to bottom on Friday the Knicks are they they’ve been methodically adding rotation players

They got Josh Hart at the trade deadline they got divon chenzo in the summer thought that was a really good mid-level pickup for them they now go get OG it would not Shock Me obviously they’d love to get a star everyone’s talked about that for a long time they can add

Another piece or two like that here coming up to the deadline they’ve done a really good job just methodic methodically deepening this roster making themselves better if you look at Leon Rose’s tenure his track record and his moves the Evan forier contract didn’t work

Out go look at the the rest of the moves and tell me what hasn’t been a smart move well there’s one gigantic Miss they drafted the wrong CA guy in the 2020 draft because they they could have drafted Tyrese Alberton and they drafted Obi toen that’s the one real Miss other

Than that and the funny thing about that is not only did they draft Obby toppen but they turned down the off from the Mavericks which they were J right but when it comes Totton there’s like eight teams that are in that no I know but I’m just saying they that’s the one

High pick they’ve had that I’m I’m saying the same thing they’ve done a really good job they’ve done a really good job the body of work is certainly pretty good um and now the 48 contract it was a Miss but it’s a trade ship now yeah even

Might be a trade ship next year too if they don’t trade him at the deadline Jaylen Brunson signing and um the Julius Randall extension which you know look at Randall’s contract relative to his production he’s not maybe the player night in and night out that the Knicks

Fans want but look at that contract in today’s day and age versus his production it’s it’s it’s pretty good yeah he’s been he’s been really good uh it’s from the Raptor standpoint um if I was a raptor fan I’d be thrilled that they that my team did this deal and

Finally did a deal instead of letting a player potentially walk in free agency um msiri has routinely crushed trades dating back to when he was running the Nuggets he has crushed trade after trade after trade and then for some reason he stopped making trades with the Raptors he just

Stopped um and dealing with the Raptors is challenging they are very demanding in trades although the interesting thing about this is that it sounds like this trade actually happened relatively smoothly and quickly um so to speak yeah well it’s just such a logical fit on both

Sides I know said they should have done other deals trust me I know this from what I understand in talking to the parties here this trade negotiation was actually relatively smooth and quick despite the fact that they’re in litigation against each other despite the fact that the Raptors have been very

Deliberate just to put it nicely uh for some reason it all sort of fell into place um well I think there’s a couple reasons why Toronto is motivated to do this deal now one was you now get runway for the next month to see what your team

Looks like and you can make a decision on Pascal sakam the other one is the Knicks having Emanual quickly that was sort of an exploding trade asset right around the league people sort of assumed he was going to be traded by the deadline because after the Knicks didn’t

Extend him before the deadline in October you have Jaylen Brunson sitting there quick wanted starting point guard money he deserves starting point guard money I think he’s a starting level point guard he there was a a thought around the league he was going to be traded right and if you’re Toronto you

Do this deal before January 1 that means he’s off the board when all these guys who could be traded on January 15th come online and when dejonte Murray who’s been talked about in trade stuff comes online as a trade possibility in early January right so you do that deal

December 30th you get him off the board you get him on your team and like I said earlier I know RJ RJ Barrett being from Toronto that’s a huge story there they’ve been chasing Canadian guys for a while having one of the stars of the Canadian national team on that team

Going forward is a big deal there quickly was the the Crown Jewel in that trade from the Toronto side I love the fit with him and Scotty Barnes I think going forward they’re going to be a terrific pairing I do think he’s got a chance to be a Jaylen Brunson type

Impact in Toronto long term and I do think RJ playing in a more uptempo system with some more shooting around him can look better than he did with the Knicks so I I truly like the train a lot for both sides yeah RJ bar looked really

Good tonight when he had 37 points six rebounds and six assists and was a plus 26 while they kicked the Warriors ass up and down the floor in San Francisco sure did and sure sure did on all fronts there yeah by the way Steph Curry in this game we’ll talk about the Warriors

In a minute Steph Curry had his second game in a month where he didn’t break 10 points and didn’t make a three wow it hadn’t happened in like three years and then it’s now happened twice in row with with the Warriors are at right now they cannot afford uh defk

Yeah but but you know the Raptors Outlook uh you know changes a little bit here especially with Scotty Barnes um having a much improved third season um and so some say allar bad today some would say but I think it’s going to be hard but um the thing about Barrett

You know the ball hot shooting day today I don’t rect to that he did the ball pretty well the first you know month of the season um then he cooled off a little bit but he has shown some propensity to have an improved outside shot I mean we’ll see whether that lasts but

Um you know and the other thing is when you when you now have Dennis schruder coming off the bench MH he’s a he’s a very impactful guy if he’s coming off your bench well you got shuder you got Gary Trent Jr you got Chris buet I mean they they’ve got a solid

Bench I mean you know one of the reasons why the Lakers have been wheezing although they did get the win tonight is because they missed shuder more than more than it was assumed because some of the stuff that shuder can do turns out to be pretty valuable well they signed Gabe Vincent

And then gab just hasn’t played so they really at this point they’ve just lost shter for nothing is one of those things that he can do dribble well the Lakers are running a five out offense with a lineup that doesn’t have guys who attack off the

Bounce which shuder sure as heck can do um but you know it is fair talk a bit though V isn’t but you know you mentioned this gives the Raptors time to evaluate this group with seum and the the seum trade market is going to be fascinating because they one

Reason they’re able to really get good value for ogan and Obi but there’s a lot of teams that want them obviously but like you you trade him to a team that is awfully confident that they’ll be able to keep him long term Pro not extend but keep him long term resign yes

To say the least I mean I know it’s been written and said many times over it’s been like the most overworked analysis of the week but one of OG’s um agents is Leon Rose’s son so right um who also happens to be one of Jaylen brunson’s agents anyways point is

The the Knicks knew he’s here for the foreseeable future whereas like for example Indiana’s one of the teams that was uh after seak this summer how confident can the Pacers be if they make a deal for seum before the deadline that it’s not just a short Max

Are they offering the 30% Max because that’s that’s a good place to start well they also it’s also at the point where a team like the Pacers who has a ton of cap space this summer could just wait and try to sign this summer too so

That’s sort of the other side of it right on the one hand you’ve got teams that want to potentially trade for him and know he’ll stay you got some other teams that will have the ability to sign players this Summer that might say Well we’d like se yakum but we can also make

A run at him in July because are we sure that Toronto is gonna want to pay him a Max are we sure he’s going to want to stay in Toronto like don’t know maybe he will maybe he won’t but like we’re not going to break the bank to trade for him

Now when we can maybe just sign him outright later so there’s that part of it too it’s it’s a very interesting situation I’m not sure exactly how it’s going to shake out uh right well so the Raptors are uh are interesting they are going they’re coming down here to La where they’ll

Play the Lakers and Clippers here three and one since the trade after that win yeah so we’ll see how they handle uh their time in LA coming up here uh the sun’s also coming um to La uh starting tomorrow Monday they play against the Clippers and then they’re here for a

Couple days and play the Lakers later in the week um the Suns had a rare moment on Sunday they had their whole big three in the lineup but Durant had Bradley Bill had just come back and um then Durant went out with a hamstring and Durant came back and uh they lost at

Home to the Grizzlies who um sir they lost it home to the Grizzlies with John Morant sidelined by a shoulder injury right so the Grizzlies have uh had a uh after sputtering a little bit have had a good couple of days um shooting the lights out against the Lakers and then

Beating the Suns and um you know when you look at you know my whole thing on the Suns is I know what bont temps has said about he didn’t like the eighton trade okay got it you know I know that a bunch of their minimum signing guys haven’t

Really worked out got it I don’t think you can even begin to talk about the Suns until those three guys have played at least 20 games together then we can yeah well just again we’ll just pretend that the injury slider just doesn’t count we’ll just turn it off obviously

It does but like I didn’t agree with Darvin Ham’s tact after they lost to the Grizzlies the other day where he said uh hey I wish people would stop living and dying after every win I don’t think that’s what the head coach is role is I think the head coach needs to have

A more level tone than that but I’m not going to freak out in January when you’re dealing with a a bunch of veterans you’re trying to bring together I yeah this this hasn’t gone well for the Suns I get it I’m not debating any of that if they get of sounds

Like I’m just saying I don’t know yet I’m just saying wait and see so so I hear everything you’re saying but also essentially what you’re saying is we can’t really begin to evaluate the Suns until they’re pretty much assured not to have homecourt advantage in the first

Round potentially not even have a chance to to avoid the play in tournament or maybe miss the play entirely well the the Warriors are helping to try to avoid that fate I’m just saying they’re like I agree with your point in theory Brian that you want you’re you’re going to have a much

Better sense of this group when we’ve seen these guys play together for 20 games I obviously agree with that at least 20 okay but the problem is we’re a halfway through the season and they’ve played what four games together I agree it’s I agree it’s a problem

But place in the west right so you can’t say whoa we just can’t we have to just set them over here and not discuss them until these guys have played 20 games okay so right now as we sit here where the standings are the the Suns Warriors and Lakers are all

Playing teams te no I incorrect Warriors are not a playing Team they’re out entirely you got the the Suns at nine the Lakers at 10 and the Warriors at 11 all right nine 10 and 11 all veteran Laden star Laden Gass a lot of their resources massive luxury tax bills yeah

Yes for sure um and it’s not getting done right now um of these three teams let’s take a look at these three teams which of these three teams is in the biggest problem right now I it has to be the Warriors has to be the Warriors because you’ve

Got internal drama I mean you’ve got freaking a young role player indirectly but very clearly coming from him and his people calling out the head coach the Hall of Fame head coach yeah there was a report in the athletic that uh Jonathan kaminga quote has lost faith in Steve

Kerr I mean it’s a it’s a jaw-dropping uh strategy move well and but you know what it worked because Steve Kirk came out hours later and basically apologized for not going back to Jonathan kaminga in the previous game yes and it was a mistake to go away from

Kaminga when Aaron Gordon was lighting them up but that’s not the point you don’t say as a player that you’ve lost faith in not not coach not in a functional team that’s trying to uh accomplish team goals that’s for sure listen man Jonathan Kingo wants to get paid at the

End of the season I understand that that is not the way to go about handling your business even if he’s right right well because the problem is guys say man boy he did that like is he going to cause problems here if we pay him anyways

Exactly but if your point is it’s not an indication of a of a happy situation that is a fair point right and what happens to his like where are his minutes coming from when draymond’s back you know draymond’s not suspended anymore he’s going to ramp up he’s going to be

Back are they I like KR has left the door open keeping kaminga the starting lineup how will Draymond react to that Chris Paul’s out four to six weeks well I think Draymond will be starting at Center in that scenario but maybe not sure um Chris Paul’s out four to six weeks um you

Know how do they manage that situation uh I mean I can you you mentioned Steph and and we can chalk it up as fluky that he’s had these two just God awful shooting performances recently just complete outliers to what’s Norm for him but can you imagine the the mental

Strain that he has right now of just all this crap flying all over the place and they are two games under 500 and if the plan Starts Now their asses in Cancun or if you’re Joe L and you’re playing 400 million for the team well so it’s interesting he bought the team for

400 million yes he did I know it’s a long time ago but I’m just just pointing that out so since you asked the question of how to rank these teams I’ve been I’ve been bouncing them around I would probably have Phoenix as the least concerning however just looking at the

Standings right the Lakers have played 10 games against under 500 teams the Warriors have played nine the Suns have played 23 oh and are 14 and N in those games they’ve played 13 games against above 500 teams the Lakers have played 27 and the Warriors have played

27 so if the Suns stay healthy now that they’ve got their guys out here as they get to a trickier part of the schedule I think they will probably be fine I still would probably have them lowest on the concern meter even though the concern meter is pretty high because they do at

Least have those three guys and the other two teams have a lot more problems the Lakers like we keep talking about we’ll see what happens over this next stretch they have a tough week ahead to week and a half going up to the trade uh the January 15th trade restriction lift

In a week from when this pod comes out so we’ll see how that goes and we’ll see what the Lakers do in the trade market but if LeBron and AD play 75 games which they’re on Pace to do the Lakers will probably be okay if one of them gets

Hurt they could be in some trouble and then Golden State like sort of the fascinating thing now now you got Mike Dunley Jr got a month of trade deadline first time he’s been in this position and like you just laid out McMahon they got a lot of things on their plate here

For Mike to decide what he wants to do for example do they try to get out of the Andrew Wiggins deal they like like do they just say look for whatever reason this guy is not going to get back to being the player he was in the finals a couple years ago

Trade him somewhere they complicated is that a complicated evaluation well right but you could potentially get out of that money just cut it off your books going forward what do they do with Draymond Green just in general like I don’t think Draymond Green’s going anywhere but

Let’s see what happens with this ramp up let’s see if he can stay on the court let’s see if he can avoid attacking anybody in a game like let’s see what happens there you mentioned Chris Paul being hurt is there something to be done with that Chris Paul contract do you

Potentially flip that for somebody do you try to make some other moves on the margins to try to have this team be competitive with Steph Curry who still is really good like they have a lot of different directions they can go with this group and they’re now playing these

Young guys almost by default pod has been great probably should be starting didn’t start today Trace Jackson Davis who they got late in the second round started today unless they make a move for a big or unless they decide to start Draymond at the five like he should be

Starting over gavon Ludy going forward clearly been better than him kaminga played well the drama from the other day aside I think we all agree that was not the right tack to take he’s still been pretty good lately he should be starting over Wiggins frankly like pods and

Kaminga should be starting on the wing for them so or if you want to have them start with clay and then start Trace at the center like they they’re they’ve just had they’ve got themselves in a a really interesting spot where they can go a lot of directions but I think you

Have to have them the most concerning team because because they just for as up and down as the Lakers have been these guys have the most questions about them well I think Golden State what you’re what you’re what you’ve been battling with here is do you trust that these guys can

Redis because you know the four core players from the title team are still there can you talk yourself into trusting that they can come back together they can get it squared away well maybe but right now they are a half game ahead of the rebuilding Utah Jazz in the west

Standings yep and look let’s just be honest again just to reemphasize it the young guys have been significantly better players this year than all these guys I mean draymond’s been good when he’s played but I mean you just have no way of counting on him at this point the

So all all the guys in the non-step division just to be clear oh right yeah Steph’s in his own Steph’s in his own category over the last three clear over the last three four weeks clay has been better and he had a good game today he’s

He had a little bit of a mini slump he’s been he’s been fine he’s also pretty bad on defense at this point yeah I would have to generally agree that I think the Warriors are in the roughest spot as far as the Lakers go um they there’s some

Indications that they may be playing better than their results that they’re getting the problem is is that I still don’t think Darin ham has lineups that he knows that are going to work I’m well also the problem is playing better than the results they’re getting is an awfully low bar well

What this a huge win from them over the Clippers this was tough opponent you stop the bleeding but man they should have won that game against the grizzly the other night I don’t they let it go through their fingers and I it was almost inex I I think the

Grizzlies just hit a ton of Threes I which obviously they had a factor in the way the Lakers defended but darham is I I think there’s a good team good I think there’s a better team there I just think there he’s having trouble like he’s still like I was I was

At this game tonight and he abandoned the lineup you know when they started the season they started the season with a starting lineup of Austin Reeves D’Angelo Russell um uh why am I forgetting who the LeBron James and AD but I’m try to think who the to Prince tan

Prince they abandoned that lineup because it was a disaster that closed with it tonight and there he’s back playing it again and so I’m like is that now they win tonight’s game because tan Prince hits a three um d’el Russell scored like eight of his 13 points in a 90c stretch

In the fourth quarter too where he came down and hit a three and a couple jumpers in the Lan ha also had his worst game that he’s had basically in a month I there’s a lot of factors going on doesn’t matter though L mcmah said

That’s a that’s a huge win for them the Clippers been rolling they needed a win I I still don’t think he knows who to play when and but I I think the ingredients are there for a competitive team um well what does competitive mean well in all Ser no but in all seriousness

Like we’re back to top six again okay this reminds me of when I was uh when I was post divorce living on my own oh and I’d open up the freezer and I have to decide which Lean Cuisine I was going to eat for dinner sometimes none of the options are

Appealing h i mean that is I mean the problem they have it’s sort of what you were saying before right I mean we talked about this the other day they have a bunch of flunky fitting role players that to your point it’s very difficult to figure out how to best fit

Them all together to have a functioning lineup out there like you you need torian Prince to play because he’s their one reliable shooter right but as you said before if you’re running this five out offense Toren Prince is a you know he’s a lesser version of him but he’s

Like oan and Obi like we talked about earlier right he’s going to guard people and he’s going to hit spot up jumpers like that huge shoty hit to help win them the game today but he’s never going to be a guy who’s going to take anybody

Off the dribble or you’re going to have to worry about attacking anybody and if you have D’Angelo Russell out there he’s going to have some moments where he gets hot and hits shots but he’s going to be an absolute open gate to the basket at

The other end so it like yeah like Darin Ham’s had to change his lineups around a lot because there’s not a lot of reliable pieces for him to choose from so it stands to reason they’re going to be inconsistent rotations there he’s got LeBron ad I’ll put Austin Reeves in the

Plus category and a whole bunch of link quisine I know but sometimes that those that link quisine has had good results at times it’s just um I don’t know good when they had unsustainably hot shooting right that’s when they’ve looked their best here’s my problem my problem is you know this happens with

Golfers sometimes golfers play their best golf when they’re young and dumb because they don’t think about it too much they get over a putt and they’re not worried about they’re not thinking about where they are on the FedEx points list they’re not thinking about their three houses and their Jet and all this

Stuff you see guys get The Yips when they’re in their 30s and 40s when they’re in their 20s they just knock putts in at 100 miles an hour this is my problem my problem is I’ve been around too long and I’ve seen teams that have been a

Mess in January and then everybody goes they’re done forget about it and then come March come April those the old veterans start to show up they come together so you guys can point out problems with the Lakers and the Warriors and the Suns and you can be

Right about all of it I can’t sit here I’m not defending any position but I look at them and I d’ Russell I know but this freaking guyy made a bunch of shots last year when they went deep in the playoffs yeah well again he and ruy hachimura had

Unsustainably hot shooting I think that’s a reasonable argument with with golden state and I think it’s I think be again the sun sealing if those guys are on the court and playing well is really high now will he be healthy we’ll see I do think generally it’s a lot harder to

Make that argument for the Lakers despite the Run they had last year but the the argument is this if LeBron and AD are playing at their Peak peak level they’re gonna have a chance to be dangerous because those guys are that freaking good yes that’s why to me the

The if I’m Rob pinka the priority between now and the deadline is trying to find two more players like torian Prince if they could find two more guys that and probably better than torian Prince but at least guys who could be credible on defense and you can count on

To hit open shots so you’re not playing cam reddish you’re not playing Jared Vanderbilt you’re not playing these guys that are not capable of playing at both ends of the Court then I think you can construct an argument where LeBron at their Peak so yeah that’s my question so

You want him to basically you’re saying find two more quality 3 andd players that every good team’s trying to find listen I’m not saying it’s easy I’m not saying it’s easy but if your choice is like trade for one shiny object or try to find a couple of role players who are

Okay players who could be some f simile of what torian Prince has given them I think they need the lad that’s what I would think they got I think they’re they got to find that from within at least one of them well I if I were them

I’d be playing Max Christ 30 minutes a game just trying iton cam reddish stinks and he shouldn’t be playing we seen the cam raddish experience 100 times I mean I’m not gonna sit here and tried to tell you that that the that the P that the

Balance of the Lakers is going to turn on Max Christie but it’s not the worst idea I’ve ever heard by way there’s at least a chance he turns into something the Lakers signed Dylan Windler yesterday to a two-way contract I was hoping to see him tonight I didn’t the guy is

67 Wing two guard he had a 33 rebound game in the G League this week what yes he’s also he’s also an interesting player because he was a first- round pick a few years ago by Brian’s favorite team the Cavs Northeast Ohio’s favorites he had uh just Progressive ankle

Injuries he’s just always been hurt for years he’s played 80 87 total games he played at Belmont and he was you know on the the three-point gun but he he he is you know for a guy who’s not wide he is a good rebound he’s a good

Rebounder in college he’s been a good rebounder when he’s played in the pros 33 rebounds guard position I thought it was a good swing for them again like maybe they maybe that’s a guy they could turn into something he may never play I’m just saying 33 rebounds I just want to have a

A moment to acknowledge that in a professional basketball game in in America okay the guy 33 rebounds okay we’ve acknowledged it we’ve rebounding from it’s it was a wild stat McMahon is having an appropriate reaction you are I mean I saw the I saw this the other day so I’m not I’m not

Surprised by it that’s all I did not see this it was it’s a very impressive thing and look again that that’s a worthwhile two-way swing for them like maybe they can have him become a guy that can play for them some it’s give him a shot see

If he can play some like I would be trying to play these guys and see if you have something like McMahon pointed this out we talked about the other day this idea that Jared Vanderbilt is the the solve to all the the Lakers problems there was a reason he wasn’t playing by

The end of the most competitive sweep in the history of basketball because on the offensive end he a zero I know and I know in that series he didn’t play because they were playing against the Champions and the Champions were yes that’s sort of the point when you have

LeBron he did play very well in many games yes but not but at the end of the playoffs look again I’m looking at through the prism Lakers are winning the title this year okay well if you have LeBron and AD what else are you trying

To do this has been my point about the Lakers since June trying to get because May nikolic sprains his ankle that’s why Lakers already won the title this year you mean another one you know what I forgot to look up I’ve been in crypto twice in the last three days and I

Forgot to look up to check out the banner iot to see the banner you have many more times over the next week right next to the bronze broom bronze Bruce right bigger than the banner oh my God all right what have I forgotten because um I totally forgot what was what was at

The end of the podcast the other day what have I think I think we have I think we have uh We’ve exhausted it I think we have covered everything I think we have covered everything d’angela Russell did decline to talk to the media after today’s game interesting that’s some

Unfortunate do happy players do that well because why because he had 13 points and so he thought he was Vindicated for I don’t know I guess strange that’s it’s the Laker World by the way there were some people who believed that if Darin ham lost this game he was gonna get

Fired Darin ham was not getting fired would also would have been a completely insane thing for the Lakers to do I mean for is a really good coach and this is not a darham problem put this way there’s been a number of stories in the last few days that have emerged about

Player or agent frustration at the head coach and I agree that there is many examples in the history of the NBA where player frustration with the head coach has led to the head coach being replaced but in this case the organization at least for now fully supports

Darham and of the players who might be frustrated at darham I don’t think that the players who have the power with the frustration are are are in that SP in that space yet so I don’t know what happens when I wake up tomorrow but if there’s a lot of stories or or concepts

That darham saved his job with this win I do not think that’s accurate so I’m calling my shot at 1:00 am on Monday morning well fair fair I love I love when Wendy’s on West Coast but he gives like a passive aggressive windy sleep update by using East Coast time that’s

Right you’re on the west coast bro don’t don’t 1 am it ain’t 1 am Where You Are by the way we we haven’t talked about him on the Pod today and we’re not gonna other than to mention here but just because I was looking at who the Warriors are playing Pelicans beat the

Kings today by 33 they’ve dominated that matchup this season they’ve won five out of six five out of six games they’ve won and they’ve got they’ve got at Golden State Wednesday ABC at Denver Friday ESPN and then in Tim’s toown against Dallas on Saturday it’s gonna be very

Interesting for me a baseball Series in that’s right they play Monday too that’s an interesting week coming up for the Pelicans see if they’re legit Zion stat tonight what what what was the uh what’s Zion dealing with why didn’t he play today is that what you’re asking yeah yeah it’s a good

Question I will I will tell you I think they’ve I think they’ve won six consecutive Road games they’re a very uh hard team to figure out because there are times when they look like they’re on the break of falling apart and then they’ll win like four or five in a row

And then then they get all healthy and then they lose by the way Trey Murphy qu contusion yeah Trey Murphy who’s a very important player for them has had recurring issues with his knee that he had surgery on start of the season that’s not so great but thing about the

Pelicans are like they won in a blowout they were up by 50 in this game yeah in sack and they’re definitely capable of blowing out teams are they capable of closing out teams because they’ve had some real clutch uh cluster Leeps couple against the Grizzlies recently they’re a bad clutch

Team well they don’t really have a pure point guard no no CJ has obviously run a lot of point in his career and you know I’m not taking away away from him but sometimes in clutch situations you like to have a pure point guard they have they have trouble getting into sets and

Clut situations like when it becomes those grinded out type of situation they’ve struggled mightly well because the point guards they have aren’t pure point guards like CJ is sort of an off offense you know looks for his own sometimes well hopefully he Z’s healthy by Wednesday but let’s see what like that’s

That’s a pretty big game for Golden State got a couple days off they got smoked today we’ll see what the lineup is on Wednesday we’ll see where draymond’s at by Wednesday I don’t think he’s playing Wednesday but he’s now eligible to play so you know let’s be

Let’s see if the Pelicans can win these games let’s see what the Warriors can do in a big match up on Wednesday all right well thank you for listening to Collective podcast thank you to Jackson for staying late thank you to bontemps thank you McMahon thank

You for listening and we will talk to you in a few days adios amigos

Knicks & Raptors Both Winners, Veteran Superstar Struggles | The Hoop Collective
Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN’s Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to talk the successful post trade results from the Knicks and Raptors including what other moves may be on the horizon for both teams before talking the struggles of some veteran superstar teams in the Western Conference.
#thehoopcollective #nba

0:00 Intro
6:50 New York Trade An Early Success
17:22 Toronto Positive Trade Outlook
25:03 Struggles For Suns, Lakers and Warriors

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