Who Do the Tier One Teams Want to Avoid in the Playoffs? | OM3 THINGS w/ TIM LEGLER

Who Do the Tier One Teams Want to Avoid in the Playoffs? | OM3 THINGS w/ TIM LEGLER

Welcome to the old man of the three things with JJ reic and Tim legler uh Tim one housekeeping note uh we did not name and number the episodes of the old man of 3 things for last year um so we started numbering them earlier this fall this happens to be officially

Episode 200 of the old man in the three uh just a moment momentous occasion we haven’t been canceled yet which is fantastic um we’ve had you on now for a number of episodes so I’m I’m just happy you get to be part of episode 200 this is T actually I would expect maybe

Balloons to be falling down or like I get something I remember when I had my 100th stay at the Double Tree in Bristol Connecticut across from ESPN’s campus I I got a I got a couple nights in the presidential suite so do I get anything for this uh being the 200th episode and

I’m the guest I’m gonna use the Don Draper line that he gave to Peggy that’s what the money is for Tim excellent that’s that’s well played well played uh all right let’s get into this uh Tim I I thought it’d be interesting we were going to cover this

Uh on the last episode The Old Man of the three that we had you on around Christmas and we just didn’t have time to get to it but I wanted to talk about the bad teams in the NBA and our personal experiences playing on bad teams so right now there are four teams

With a net rating over -10 and I think in NBA history there’s only been a couple of times where there’s been two teams and right now the Spurs the Pistons the Hornets and the Wizards all with a negative -10 or higher uh plus minus net rating uh these teams are

Objectively bad they’re bad teams uh Spurs with five wins Pistons with three wins look I don’t know that either team uh sets the all-time record for most losses but you played on a team in 1993 1994 the Dallas Mavericks that went 13- 69 real quick you guys started one and

Three then you went on a 20- game losing streak to go one and 23 you won a game then you had a 16 game losing streak you were 2 and 39 at the halfway point you were 8 and 46 and then you had a 17 game losing streak Now you won your ninth

Game there’s 10 games to go you’ve tied the all-time record I want to know what those last 10 games were like what was what was the dialogue in the locker room as you guys had these incredibly long losing streaks and truthfully were in danger of setting the all-time record

Well all right so this is interesting going back to this time in my life because it was like you know I did three years laying on a psychiatrist couch to forget about all this um you know money well spent by the way to get rid of the

PTSD from it but so it’s interesting when you’re on a team that bad and we were the youngest team in the league and and so we had some young guys that were still trying to get their feet wet in the NBA um we did have some lottery

Picks on that team though and we had one veteran player that everybody looked up to and dererk Harper who was our starting point guard and by that time you course he played on a team that went to the Western Conference finals and now here he is a few years later and this

The worst team in the NBA he eventually gets moved out but as the year’s going on JJ you start off obviously you’re losing a ton of games early you mentioned you the way you put it you know went on a 20 game losing streak I think that’s funny usually you say went

On a winning streak we endured a 20 game losing streak early in the year so at that point you kind of know your season’s cooked and you’re really just playing for like personal pride and to try to establish yourself and the organizations making whatever decisions they are but here’s the thing you’re

Still kind of showing up every night you know it’s a little bit light-hearted you know you’re not very good but and you’re just going out there playing Loosey Goosey because you got nothing to lose until JJ you start getting into that territory where you’re talking about record setting

Ineptitude okay when that when that starts becoming a topic of conversation with the media a national storyline you’re putting on Sports Center they’re talking about this every time you lose a game then it starts to feel a little bit like kind of like panic mode is setting

In because you have you have a feeling I mean you might be on a roster that ends up winning less games than any team in the history of the league so if you look at that 8 and 63 with 11 games to play We Are One game

Short of tying uh the all time in aptitude and then of course we win two games we’re out of that conversation and we go we went we I think five and six in our last 11 games so we got hot late I love it five and

Six is going being hot yeah yeah five and six red hot to avoid infamy um and I just I do remember the weight once it started to get into that territory that second long losing streak that we had that’s when you started really you worrying and getting

Concerned that you you were going to be part of this team and it’s hard if you’re associated with something like that man it’s gonna come up every now and then and you’re going to be Associated your name’s on that roster so I just remember the sense of relief

Incredible amount of relief when we got that 10th win and we didn’t have to worry about it and then we actually won the last two games of the year as I guess everybody was kind of getting ready for uh for the summer we uh played extremely loose and free and we won the

Last two games to get to 13 there’s an interesting Dynamic here when you play on a bad team and I want to get to the competitive aspect of it the the weight of winning and losing in a second but you one of the things that happens and

You touched on this a little bit is you you want to play for the team you want your team to win and there’s some reality of our team sucks uh and then so you have to balance that with your own personal Ambitions and and I think to a

Degree when you and I’m not saying this is happening in Detroit or San Antonio or any these places I I’m just speaking of my own personal experience and I want to get your perspective specifically with that team where that sort of balance gets out of whack and there’s a Schism in the locker

Room and and people start playing for themselves like did you did you feel that did you experience that at all on that Mavs team oh absolutely without question we experienced that um it was it was brutal and and it’s so hard when you know you’re you’re a player like I

Was I always considered myself a guy that you know I was always you know I worked hard I was prepared I had fought at that point to kind of establish myself after being in Europe and being in the CBA and now year before that I

Join the Mavs and now this is year two and so I’m still trying to establish what I think I am as an NBA player and but you’re used to being a good teammate playing the right way and making making you know pretty obvious decisions on the

Court of how you’re supposed to play and that kind of goes out the window you know even practices become chaotic at that point and and it doesn’t feel like professional it feels like you’re very much out there for yourself and and look if you don’t adopt some of that

Mentality as a player yourself no matter how you’ve been taught or what you believe in and all of the things that are your core princip as an athlete as a player as a human being if if you can ascribe to all of those things but if

You don’t at some point have some of that in you where you’re playing for yourself as well you are going to get swallowed up in this situation and you’re going to be not only on a bad team you’re also going to be a guy that’s irrelevant on a bad team because

You’re not noticed because you’re the one guy that’s trying to do things the right way so there’s no question that seeps in and as the deeper you go into the year the more it does and and as you get closer toward the end of the season season you when you’re like six weeks

Out and now so here we are like early March and we’re still in this period where we don’t know if we’re going to end up with the worst record in history and and guys are already starting to think about getting to the off season you know some cases guys know they’re

Not going to be there anymore whatever you talk about a relaxed atmosphere and it just becomes a situation that’s really tough man you’ve got to have a little bit of selfishness you in that situation to continue to go out because you’re not just playing at that point for the Dallas Mavericks you’re playing

For the entire league every single time you go in the court because you know there’s a good chance this entire thing’s about to be blown up and you want to prove to some people what you’re capable of doing as a player so it does go against what you believe in if if

You’ve been raised a certain way and taught and coached a certain way you have to get away from that a little bit and have a little bit of narcissism in what you’re doing in order to survive it and to continue to have a career beyond that season we touched on the Pistons

Earlier this year when they were going through that losing streak and we brought up the word I think I said it you you you lose a sense of purpose um because I think the purpose of a of an NBA basketball season is winning and losing for sure and then it’s also

Growth and so you sort of I I found it when I played on the Orlando team the first year after we had fired Stan we we trade away Dwight we we’ve got a youth movement but we’ve still got some vets hanging around from the from those sort

Of Glory years I know we didn’t win but th those were Glory years for the Orlando Magic and in that in that run with Stan uh you know we’ve got me we’ve got Turk we’ve got Jamir uh we brought in Aaron alalo um Glenn Davis was on the

Team as well so like we we there was this we we knew the youth movement was coming we we knew they were trying to rebuild through the draft and there was a real sense I think from the vets of like frustration because we were used to things going a certain way and I

Remember you know we we started that season uh 12 and 13 we win a home game against Washington but baby gets hurt and we went on a 10 10 game losing streak we win a game in uh in La a day game versus the Clippers uh that Lob

City team before I got there uh then a few games later we start another losing streak we lose 12 in a row uh win a home game against Portland I was traded shortly thereafter I remember thinking at some point during that first losing streak because you start 12 and 13 and

You’re like we we were supposed to be a lottery team maybe there’s a chance we can sneak in the playoffs Management’s probably not going to be excited about that but maybe there’s a chance and then sort of reality sinks and and you almost have to reframe your

Purpose and for me it wasn’t it wasn’t about like stats on that team it was the first year where I felt like I got to play like how I want to play Jac Von came to to me he’s like I’m going to run plays for you all right you know you

Might start some games you might be he he referenced Manu jobi you might be our Manu sometimes coming off the bench but the offense is going to run through you I I had career high and assists that year so I got to play the way I wanted

So it wasn’t for me on that team it wasn’t like oh I’ve got to go out of my way to put up stats because when I was on the court like I was very involved in the offense I reframe the winning and losing part as as the growth of me as a

Player but more importantly that year specifically it was like how do I become a better leader and and look there was a couple weeks there where we were losing games and I was not happy I was orary dayto day and it was one of the few

Times in my career where I can say I wasn’t the same guy every day right so I sort of had to reframe my brain I had to reframe the purpose all right I’m going to really lean into being a leader I’m going to be a leader for Andrew

Nicholson for Nick vich for for ichan Moore for moh harkless like that’s what I’m going to kylo Quinn was on that team too that’s I’m going to lean into that and it gave me a sense of purpose I I think something else you said that really sticks out to me is the feeling

Of irrelevance that was really the first time in my career where I felt that that irrelevance and I remember specifically Monday of free agency the the second day of free agency I had a sushi dinner in LA with Doc Rivers and my agent and Greg Lawrence uh AR tellum was there and the

Thing I said to Doc I was like you have to make this sign in trade happen I don’t want to be irrelevant I want to play on a relevant basketball team and the other teams I was deciding uh to to you know potentially sign with I I I

Didn’t get the sense that they were going to be relevant teams I didn’t get the sense that they were going to be true contenders and that feeling of irrelevance to me was the big like not being a part of a team that mattered that is a different experience you’re on

The Boston Celtics you’re on the LA Lakers you’re on the Pistons or the Hornets those are two different NBA experiences no it’s so true you know we one of the things I can relate to in you talk about being becoming a better leader so let me just tell you a couple

Things about that season 9394 first uh we have Derrik Harper on the team is our only real veteran proven player at that point Jimmy Jackson we had drafted the year before as a lottery Pick and this was a different time when you know before you had the uh the rookie scale

Slotted in so he held out uh for most of the Season he didn’t joined the team the previous year till March so Jimmy Jackson comes in plays like the last six weeks of the Season plays great the city thinks that okay maybe we have you know you know franchise type player um a

Lottery pick the following year the 9394 season that we’re talking about we draft Jamal Mashburn so now mash comes in as a high Lottery Pick and he clearly was a Transcendent offensive Talent you could see that immediately and we have Derek Harper on the team it there’s a little

Bit of Hope at the start of the year but then the losing starts kicking in right away and dere Harper at that point been around a while been on good teams was like look and he he and Quinn Buckner who had just been hired to coach that

Year they kind of buted heads and so Derek Harper wants out we trade him to the Knicks he goes to the Knicks and I think the year after they go to the NBA finals as they’re a starting point guard for Derrick Harper I was so happy for

Him because he’s one of my favorite teammates of all time um and so Harper leaves and now it’s really just a bunch of young guys all in this chaotic situation um a lot of selfishness I felt like kicked in but talk about leadership moment so we’re at practice one day and

The coaching staff is so disgusted with how things are going at practice I guess the lack of seriousness they basically leave say you know what you guys go coach yourselves we’re out they walk out of the gym the entire staff and we’re all looking around at each other and you

Know what the players are like ready to go like leave and I’m like losing my mind like no we’re going to stay here we’re GNA we’re going to get something done man are you kidding me you guys is embarrassing let’s play let’s work we ended up just playing like basically

Some really intense pickup basketball but it felt like it was like the first time that I experienced it in a while guys wanted to win like it was pickup Ball but that like that mentality kicked in and every player who’s ever played and got to that level you know what it

Feels like to play pickup game you lose you know you got you’re not you got Five Guys waiting you’re not in the next game like you want to hold court and that’s what it felt like that day but it was like I remember I was the one that got

Very vocal about it like know we’re not walking out of the gym because the coaches left we’re gonna get something done here because I was so sick of losing and sick of the embarrassment and sick of like just the environment that we were in on a daily basis even with

Our home crowds it was crazy and all the different side stories that happened throughout the year that just things get very bizarre and weird and you’re just trying to survive JJ at that point you’re trying to survive and you know something better is coming for

You um and the one good thing about that year for me was I think people got to see that I could I could you know shoot the ball at the level I needed to at that at the NBA level I could do that I could compete at that level athletically

I could do all those things because I think I had some doubters going into that probably the year before I really started to prove it but then that year getting an entire season so and I think a lot of guys at locker room were that were playing for themselves kind of felt

That way if they proved something or they didn’t it was really about yourself in a bubble that’s what it felt like the second half of the year and it’s a terrible feeling in a team sport because the best feeling in the world as a basketball player is when when all guys

Are connected and you’re playing for the same thing and it’s us against the world everybody in this locker room like all that matters like that mentality very hard to hold on to that when you’re losing night after night my first year in New Orleans we we started six and n

And then we had a 13 game losing streak and during that losing streak I I saw some of the things you’re talking about sort start popping up right uh body language uh individualism some selfishness so I go to Alvin Gentry before practice I’m like I don’t know

How long this is going to take but we’re going to meet as a team just the players and I don’t know your experience with players only meeting sometimes they’re productive sometimes they’re not I can say that was probably the the most productive player meeting that I was

Ever a part of um Drew and I you know we we sort of let it but we opened the Forum and everybody got to talk and the end of that season we end up play Zion comes back in January we end up playing really well all the way up until covid

Hits uh we’re in a position to compete for a playoff spot uh we didn’t play particularly well in the bubble um but in my exit interview with Alvin Gentry and Chris Finch what this is one one of the greatest things a coach has ever said to me you know they they they said

Our locker room could easily have been lost you know the fact that this season actually turned out to be an enjoyable one uh with with with the the group is a Real Testament to you and Drew and that moment like it meant a lot to me and I

Don’t think I would have been prepared for that moment if it wasn’t for that last year in Orlando where I sort of embraced the leadership aspect um Tim I want to get two uh we had a great slate of games you called it weird when we

First got on uh before we started airing great slate of games last night a lot of movement right now in the standings a lot of teams in both conferences bunched together uh in the Eastern Conference seeds 4 through eight uh all with 15 losses uh Orlando Cleveland New York

With 21 wins Indian Miami with 20 uh and then over in the Western Conference the Clippers losing to the Lakers last night with 13 losses in fourth place place and Phoenix uh in ninth place with 17 a number of teams uh playing I would say inconsistently I want to touch on both

Conferences though and just get your overall sense of the team in the Eastern Conference that you are the most high on be in that group between the Knicks Cleveland Miami Indiana and Orlando man this is tough because I did I think there’s uh it’s a fine line between the

Five teams you just mentioned magic Cavs Nicks Pacers Heat I think those five teams was a very fine line I absolutely love the Knicks acquisition of OG anobi and I think they’re their best their best days are ahead of them they’re four and0 since they got him um you know RJ

Barrett is is a talented offensive player but he’s inconsistent and I think ogan noi he’s not a guy that necessarily you’re gonna have to run things through the way you really did RJ Barrett in order to you know I think keep his rhythm get him going that’s the type of

Player that he is oan anobi can go long straight stretches be super effective without having to have anything run for him and guard at an elite level four positions on the other end of the floor so he gives you the the top shelf like all League defensive caliber effort

Every night on that end and on the other end he’s a pretty consistent open three-point shooter he’s a pretty good slasher and the good thing is he’s GNA give you very valuable production even if you’re not running anything for him that’s why I love that trade I think the

Knicks and now are going to start to start to steadily climb would not be shocked whatsoever Nicks end up in the four spot in the Eastern Conference I also think Indiana is a team that is absolutely built for the regular season they’re incredibly difficult to prepare

For the pace at which they come at you and the way they spread you out immediately when they get over half court and and halton’s vision and and just the way they make you pay very difficult to prepare for with one day like a film session and a shoot route

Okay let’s talk about the Pacers it’s very tough now you get into a seven game series it’s a little different you can start to really lock in on what you need to do to make them just a little bit less efficient and they’re not very good defensively although they’ve gotten

Better so that that that’s a different story we’ll deal with that when we get there in a seven game series for the Pacers but in the regular season they’re going to win a ton of games because the pace is just too much for you to to to

Be ready for it so different than way a lot of teams play in this league so I think Indiana actually has a really good chance as well to continue to climb up Cleveland’s an interesting story they’re 21- 15 and you would think the way they’ve been talked

About JJ that they had they’ve had a horrible year but they’re six games over 500 they’re sitting in the five spot right and they’re still within Striking Distance of like the three spot and you feel like they’ve been a disappointment but look they’re there they’ve had some

Injuries to deal with and let’s see what happens with them I don’t love them as much um I don’t know if I feel like I’ve already seen their ceiling maybe that’s why and I still think there’s more for Indiana more for the Knicks more for the

Magic to grab but I’m looking at the Knicks and Pacers and and and actually Miami as well they they’ve been a great story because they just haven’t been talked about all year yet here they are and and and they got a little winning streak recently had some really good

Quality wins particularly on the road and again they’ve dealt with injuries so I think the Heat’s best days are ahead of them if you want me to flush it out I think I would go with the New York Knicks or Miami probably most likely to

End up in that fourth spot and host a home series that’s all feel about it okay um was hoping we could disagree on this but um we’re going to agree we’re gonna agree let me say this let me say this I’m not hating on any of these

Teams I actually really like all five of these teams um they’re good basketball teams all five of them are um Cleveland’s interesting because you know they they’ve had a bunch of injuries even when they’ve been whole they’ve they’ve underperformed I think relative to expectations uh they had these

Injuries they’re 18 and 15 they’re sitting I think at tied for eighth or ninth uh you know in the in the East and then Jared Allen all of a sudden returns to form and it looks like an All-Star player again the last seven games 21- 16

The last seven uh they’ve won three in a row they’re back up uh you know essentially tied for fourth with the magic um I’m not willing to sell all my Cleveland stock and and I know Moy and Garland are going to be out for a little

Bit I’m not willing to sell my Cleveland stock I still think you you know in a in a in a potential playoff series uh when they’re whole with the addition of Max stru they’re a good basketball team for me it it is the Knicks uh they have been

Uh a top 10 offense for most of the season um in the last four games since acquiring OG and anobi they are the number two defense in the league they really struggled defensively after the Mitchell Robinson in injury I mean really they were they were you know around top 10

At the time of his injury they were a bottom five team for a number of weeks OG has completely changed that you bring up the RJ trade look I you know I said this on air when I called uh OG’s second game which was the the Bulls game uh in

MSG last Wednesday I think the fit is better it’s not a knock on RJ you have two ball dominant players in jayen Brunson and Julius Randall Jaylen Brunson is I I think second in the NBA in touches this year uh Julius Randall uh is a top three ISO player in terms of

Volume those guys have the ball in their hands a ton RJ Barrett is not a good off ball player he’s just not he’s not’s he’s never really found that consistency from three-point range outside of his second year OG is a better fit it’s a better fit on this team they needed a

True defensive stopper a bigger Wing they got that in OG they needed a guy who can play off the ball in terms of a spot up shooter one thing that is has always stood out to me about OG he’s always been a great cutter and we’ve

Seen him him as a cutter in New York having a lot of success um I and I think Brunson and Randle are that good I I I do they I think they’re that good the question for me on the Knicks will ultimately be sort of the rotations and

And the bench production that Philly game the other night you saw MCB you saw Quinton Grimes if those guys can consistently at least one of them give you 10 to 15 points Off the Bench um this Knicks team has a has a real chance

To to be in that number four spot um I also want to say Isaiah hartstein hartenstein has been incredible incredible for the New York Knicks filling in for Mitchell Robinson uh the other teams so I love Orlando I think B banero is going to be an All-Star this

Year I think there’s no doubt he just absolutely controlled and dominated that game last night against the Atlanta Hawks um with Indie they’re one of the most fun teams their off offense is incredible all of that stuff I I love your take they’re going to win a lot of

Games they’re going to be in a position to be in the playoffs Miami to me is sort of the the wild card here um I think there’s three guys on their team that are having career years in bam Tyler herro and Duncan Robinson uh haime

Hakz Jr who we’ve talked about a ton has been the third best rookie in the NBA uh in terms of efficiency and winning impact You could argue maybe he’s to B uh he’s been that good uh the question around Jimmy Butler’s health and his availability in the regular season he’s

Missed seven of the last eight games I I think that that could determine where they land in the Eastern Conference that’s my big question mark with them a healthy Miami team in the playoffs nobody wants to see them nobody wants to see them no listen the heat

It’s it’s it’s just amazing to me because I don’t know how deep we went into the season now the Heat have played uh 35 games I probably went 25 games before I even mentioned the Miami Heat and all of the stuff that I’m doing right all the different platforms I’m

Talking about they just weren’t coming up because they didn’t have a great start to the year they had guys hurt and then they start getting hot and they’re and they’re beating really quality teams and the way that they’re doing it looks different than the way a lot of teams

Are winning every night because if you look at if just look at on a random night you know we had recently last Wednesday right we had uh five teams score 140 points we had 10 teams score 130 points that night right and there’s a lot of 133 127 games in the NBA right

Now and then you look at the Heat and the way that they start to climb uh the rungs in the ladder in the East and they’re not doing it that way they’re winning games 108 101 and you’re going okay see now this is what like a playoff

Tested team looks like because you might have to win some games like that when you get there and so now all of a sudden here you are you’re third of the way into the season and you’re starting to talk about Miami and I go look we know

How good Boston A’s been and they’re I think that’s the best team in the NBA and they can beat you on both ends of the floor I think Milwaukee’s got some real issues right now defensively it’s glaring how much they have dropped off defensively from the team that won the

Championship and I think they’ve got some real issues in stopping people right now so I’ve got some question marks about them Philadelphia um I think with the way they play now stylistically uh with maxi having the basketball they just look like they all fit better there

Seems like there’s more of a bounce and an energy with this team but do they have enough ultimately to contend with those teams I look at the Heat JJ and I say man you said nobody wants them I and I think you mean nobody as in Boston Milwaukee Philly even the top teams

Don’t want to see the Miami Heat in the seven game series because of how well coached they are how hard they’re going to make you work you know that they’re never gonna beat themselves they don’t like mail it in they are going to make you earn it and work possession after

Possession and grind you down and that’s why you don’t want to play them so I look up now and I say would you be shocked JJ would you be shocked if the Miami Heat ended up in the finals again I mean I’m not gonna it’s not gonna be

Some crazy thing if the heat end up doing that because of who they are and who coaches them um now I wouldn’t put money on that I think Boston ends up in the NBA Finals barring some sort of an injury but I’m just saying it’s not out

Of the question to think they’re in the mix again to return to the NBA finals and we have barely discussed this team all year absolutely they’ve beat all three of those teams Milwaukee Philly and and Boston in in the last two seasons in the playoffs they there’s a

There’s a there’s just a a like a corporate knowledge there there’s a corporate knowledge when it comes to how to win in the playoffs with the Miami Heat um let’s get to this Western Conference uh lineup of teams Clippers in fourth sack in fifth Dallas in six

New Orleans in seventh Houston in eighth Phoenix in ninth uh who out of these teams I I actually have a harder time with the Western Conference to be honest with you outside of the Clippers uh but who who who of these teams uh stands out

To you uh I think we both are in agreement that we expect assuming Health the Clippers to ultimately end up as a three or four seed in the Western Conference um but which of these teams are are you willing to sort of bet on yeah look the Clippers right now um have

Completely found a great Rhythm Kawhi Leonard’s been healthy all year he looks as dominant as ever as efficient as ever they they’ve got the depth they’ve got the role players you zubot big night last night that just continues to impress me to how hard he plays and

Again one of those guys you just love because you don’t have to call anything for him and he still just goes out there and busts his rear end on every single trip get you extra possessions Paul George for the most part been healthy playing well James Harden I think it’s a

Great Lane for him he doesn’t have the Press pressure on him to be you option one or option two and I think that was a problem for him I think he would feel some of that pressure and he played differently loses aggressiveness at times he doesn’t have to worry about

That as much he can be more facilitator with this group look it’s seamless right now since he got there you can’t deny it and they have the ability which I don’t think a lot of teams do to be suffocating for a five six minute stretch if that’s what they need to do

Defensively they have that ability so the Clippers to me no-brainer they stay healthy Kawai stays healthy all year uh you know they might end up three I don’t know if they’re going to have a chance to catch Denver or Minnesota but you know they could possibly catch the

Oklahoma City Thunder so I think they’re going to host a home a home court in the first round whether that’s a three or a four seed the other team to look for right now is the Pelicans um that I I brought up an industry question JJ and I

Want to get your take on this because I haven’t talked to you about it when I start talking about all the teams in the league that are like contenders let’s say top 10 teams like you know they’re they’re in that mix they clearly upper tier teams and I ask you about each team

Who’s their best player you have a definitive answer I think within a within a nanc you’re gonna give me a name I don’t they’re the only team in the mix the Pelicans that I don’t think you could say that definitively it should be Zion but I don’t know that

Zion plays with that level of urgency every night to be the best player on the floor every night um but it should be him and I think that concerns me some people might think well that’s a good thing right they got balance at the top mum Ingram Zion could be any one of

Those guys on a given night yeah well I don’t know all those other teams there’s a name that’ll pop off your tongue immediately when I say who their best player is because there’s a standard they’re setting every single night and it look doesn’t mean they’re going to

Shoot great every night and or have great production every night most nights yes they’re gonna have some off shooting nights but the standard they’re set it with the Relentless pressure they’re putting on teams and bringing it every night because the expectations are there every other team in that mix the top 10

Has that guy and I that’s my only concern for New Orleans like they’re playing great right now it’s undeniable but that to me is a question mark about them and it relates around Zion Williamson for me I’m curious to get your take on that I I think you you

Were spoton with your take and I don’t think there is a clear best player and I love Zion at his best I love bi I praise that guy more than anybody I think on the Pelicans I love bi um you know last night’s a great example Z no Zion last

Night they play the Kings in Sacramento uh watch that game when they’re at their best I this is why I I I like refuse to sell any Pelican stock and and why I’m still bullish on this team uh as a contender and I mean that uh when

They’re at their best they have big wings we saw how disruptive they were yesterday with dearon Fox they have shooting they have when they’re spaced and moving the basketball like they were last night they’re a really hard team to guard bi is a playmaker downhill he had

Some passes late at The Rim on time on target to the opposite corner for wideopen threes CJ has sort of now found his his he was awesome last night but he has sort of found where he fits in in the pecking order um you’re bring like you’re bringing at times you’re bringing

I I think he should start but you’re bringing at times Trey Murphy Off the Bench who is another big Wing that can shoot that can attack the rim like they have a very very good roster a very good roster there are uh lineups they can put

Out where they go super big they can go super small they can put in Alvarado to be disruptive like I I think within a play playoff series this team at their best is a very tough out against anyone but I think the big question mark you nailed it it’s like what version of

Zion are you going to get and the hierarchy thing is valid because there have been times this year where Willie Green has sat him in crunch time down the stretch and whether that’s just a matchup thing defensive whatever it is like those are decisions being made Joe

Moua is not doing that with Jason T him Mark Dag’s not not doing that with Shay so I I think it’s a valid point you make um and and the night toight urgency and energy from him it it it varies the best version of him is awesome he’s

An all-nba player the best version him no he had he had a game recently against the Lakers um and he’s going up against that Anthony Davis you know big front line and he was incredible every time he caught the ball everything he did was decisive quick athletic powerful bursts finishing like

He he’s you know he had a couple plays in that game where he’s getting the ball is back to the basket with Anthony Davis on him who’s seven feet tall a legit one of the best post defenders in the league great length great timing and he’s just

Going into like his you know drop step middle then spin back and shooting his baby hooks as if Anthony Davis wasn’t there but he did it so quickly and so decisively and he was so locked in that night and I was like this if he played that way all the time

And I didn’t watch him for periods of game kind of Shuffle around and and and not look like he’s energized to play and look some of it is just because there’s an unselfishness there about him where it’s not it doesn’t matter to him I guess sometimes when they get a lead

Even he’ll kind of play that way and I go okay you know I played with a guy in in Washington rashed W was just his rookie year I thought I called him the most unselfish Superstar Talent I’ve ever seen because he genuinely didn’t care he had won at every level at high

School the best high school team in the country then he goes to Carolina on a great team comes to Washington all all he known in his life was winning it’s really all he cared about and I always felt like this dude could have been perennial Allstar every year if if

That’s what he cared about was putting up numbers I think there’s some of that with Zion it’s not important to him every night but I think it maybe needs to be more important to him for his team to set that bar because he is their unique for

And the teams that are top teams that expect to win it potentially have a unique force that is a one-off that only they have that’s Zion as much as I love Brandon Ingram and C.J McCollum there are other teams that have guys that sort of replicate what they look like and how

They play there’s nothing like Zion there’s nothing like jic there’s nothing like embiid there’s nothing quite like Giannis right you go up and down the list and and there’s really nothing really like Kawai and that’s not and Zion Williamson has the ability to do that JJ to separate

Himself from everybody else as this unique weapon and when he plays decisively and energized you see it and you go wow how the hell you want to play this team with those three guys and all these great role players that you mentioned you didn’t even get to valent

Tunis and Alvarado they’ve got so many dudes on this team that contribute every single night in their role he’s the he’s the big exactor and there’s a pendulum with and I just if he kept the bar a little higher consistently I think man this team is a legitimate threat in the

Western Conference like get out of the West that’s where I would consider them I’d like to see a little bit more of a consistent stretch out of these things from Zion before I’d really put him in that category and and say okay yeah I can see them going toe-to-toe with

Denver um and maybe toe totoe they could give him a six seven game series Denver is going to win that series Zion has the ability to potentially change that and that’s the guy I think has got a big FOC focus on them the second half of the season because the Pelicans have

Everything in place to contend if they stay healthy it’s you’re the best players in the world every night put their imprint on the game it’s not just about the counting stats it’s the imprint it’s like this is my identity this is what makes me great I’m doing

This tonight and it’s going to help my team win joic is a great example of that last night guy took three shots but Jamaal Murray went off joic has 15 assists or whatever it was like he he’s going to put his imprint on the game and

It’s not always is just about scoring um I wanted to get your take right now on the Dallas Mavericks um because we got some hate last week saying we were calling Luca underrated because we didn’t have him in the top three in the MVP Luca’s is playing as well as anyone

In basketball that doesn’t mean he’s the MVP okay guys um but they beat the Minnesota uh Timberwolves last night Luca and Kyrie both go for over 30 um they’re a top 10 offense uh they’ve been better than at least I expected defensively they’re 17th right now defensive rating sitting at 22 and 15

Kyrie’s missed some time the best version of this team what’s your sort of take on the Dallas Mavericks right now oh man oh man all right so I they’re they’re again they’re one of those teams that consistently isn’t a great defensive team um they certainly can can

Can beat you both of those guys playing they can beat you in a shootout or even when Kyrie hasat Lucas can win games because the way he controls it to a certain extent um and the way he can beat you almost by himself offensively because he’s that dominant uh but

They’re you know they’re not great defensively every night they I think they’ve gotten better I think their role players are fitting in really well and Lucas starting to I think figure out how to play with some of the new faces that he’s got this year

Bottom line is this JJ you put them in a close game you put them in a in a series that has series defining moments where it’s it’s a 2-1 series and it’s a tie game with four minutes left right it’s it’s even even you know you’re in a

One-1 series and it’s tight late and they’ve got those two guys right you said the same thing about the heat who the hell wants to play the Heat who the hell really wants to play Dallas if you got to get those two guys in a seven game series when there’s

Going to be tight games and meaningful possessions late the way that Luca can control the game with his passing or the way that Kyrie Irving uh you know can go get a basket against anybody anytime that he wants I think they’re very very dangerous um I just don’t know if in you

Know when you ultimately get into a seven game series and you can come up with a game after game adjustment to try to figure out how to defend a team that is that ball dominant with one player is that going to be enough ultimately like to really run through

The west and get to the finals with that many quality teams so I think Dallas is very very dangerous uh they’re probably a second round potentially a second round team with a long Series in the second round but I don’t know that I’d put him beyond

That yeah 12 and five in clutch game so far the Dallas Mavericks uh last two teams real quick uh I think what’s interesting about the rockets and and Phoenix is uh the disparity of expectations and performance relative to expectations um I think Phoenix you could probably put in that group along

With the Lakers and the Golden State Warriors as underperforming I think relative to expectations coming into the season whereas Houston has overperformed relative to expectations they’ve got a top five defense shenon has been awesome um Dylan Brooks Fred Van Fleet they they’ve given them balance and and and

Leadership uh I I I like this team I like watching this team um I don’t know that they’re a a team that can win a playoff series right now uh and then with phoenix look they’re two and three now when the big three play like last night they lose uh to the Memphis

Grizzlies without John Morant um I just haven’t seen enough from them and this is someone who uh loves watching Kevin Durant play loves watching Devon Booker play like I just haven’t seen enough from them where I right now 36 games in I’m not high on them now if there’s a 20

Game stretch where they have their big three together and they go 14 and six 15 and five whatever it may be like we can start I think talking about them in the same tier as some of these other teams in the Western Conference um I just I’m

Not there yet they’re the biggest wild card in the NBA because they have they have the talent um at the at the top of their roster to win the whole thing and yet here they are been you know really impossible to tell what they are because of the inconsistency with which they’ve

Played together I need to see a 152 game stretch where all three of those guys are healthy and you get a much better idea like is this a team that’s really really good offensively most nights but ultimately they don’t have enough flow they don’t have a real true leader a

Playmaker a guy that puts his ball on the hip and organizes people they’ve got ultimately three really good scorers that can score at all three platforms but sometimes you need somebody to just be out there to organize everything and have a flow to your offense so we need

To see that and I can’t make that determination on them and that’s why they’re they’re such a wild card because they could win it all or they could be in the playin I mean think about the range we’re talking about with the Phoenix Suns and so we’re gonna have to

Wait and just Reserve judgment on them Houston is a team that’s going to be in the mix night after night because the way they defend but one thing I’ll say about them and this is a lot like Sacramento last year Sacramento virtually lost nobody to injury and they they took advantage last

Year of Av void in in the west with all these teams were dealing with major injuries to key guys stars and so everybody was sort of a mess trying to figure out what they were we were trying to figure out what these teams were and

Then here you go with the Kings and at one point they’re top seven guys and this was late in the year I I did the math on it their top seven scorers had missed a total of 17 games total and we’re we’re like in the last 20 games of

The year so they were able to because hey just through sheer continuity and having good enough Talent boom they grabbed the three spot in the Western Conference Houston if you look their top guys haven’t missed any time you wonder if it’s matter of time maybe some guys

Start to miss some time are they going to be able to withstand that um as good as their defense is and as athletic and long as they are can they withstand shenon going out can they withstand FR Leed if he goes out for some time are

They gonna be able to to withstand that um do they have the depth to do that that’s that’s going to be the test for them because to this point they’ve been very very healthy for the most part and while other teams have had guys miss

Time and so they kind of stay in the mix far surpassed expectations I thought this was like a 21n team coming into the season far surpassed expectations I don’t know if they can hold on yeah I I I didn’t think they were very good I didn’t like the roster very much at all

Look I I think you know this is this is a big you know statement on OK he’s had a big impact on them and some of their role players have been better than I thought so you know I miss I miscal cated on them I needed to recalibrate

That once I saw them play but still let’s see if they’re able to hold on to where they are or if if you see teams like Phoenix and the Lakers it start to get it together who knows does Golden State at some point have a run in them

Is Houston able to hold on to where they are right now or they do they ultimately end up in sort of a oneoff playin situation to get into the postseason well it’s interesting because a lot of the discourse around the Western Conference was you know the the top 12

Teams are really good and Houston was not included in those top 12 right we we all had Memphis in there no one could have predicted how bad they would be without John Morant um and tus Jones but the Utah Jazz right now just want to

Mention them before we go off air 10 and four in their last 14 Colin seon’s playing great basketball uh I’m calling their game on Wednesday uh against Denver excited to do that in Utah uh they’re an interesting team too especially with how the Lakers and Golden State have looked maybe they can

Sneak in uh to the play anyways both conferences Lots going on another great conversation Tim always appreciate it we’ll see you in a couple weeks got it DJ all right

Welcome to our 200th episode of The Old Man and the Three! We’re so thankful to all our fans for supporting the show. This week we have Tim Legler joining us to talk about his experience of being on one of the worst teams in NBA history. Then we talk about who has a legit shot to make a deep run in the playoffs from the middle tier teams (Luka Doncic and the Dallas Mavericks, De’Aaron Fox and the Sacramento Kings, Kawhi Leonard and the Los Angeles Clippers, Jimmy Butler and the Miami Heat, Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers, Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks, etc…). Here’s to another 200!

Subscribe to The Old Man and The Three podcast w/ JJ Redick (ESPN / First Take) and Tommy Alter YouTube channel today for more NBA analysis, player interviews and highlights.