Miami Heat: Halfway point at 24-17; what must improve? | Five on the Floor

Miami Heat: Halfway point at 24-17; what must improve? | Five on the Floor

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Directly at 305 748 0112 that’s 305 748 0112 and now today’s episode five on the floor ride for my dogs where here the thing you can check the score Hustle Hard couple SCS we bubble frog just like bu said you in trouble y check the Flor plan got it all

B y’all seen the block stop with one hand and Pat trust it’s F have the guts we here to bring the heat y’all can hang it up welcome to five on the floor a daily Insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan scholet Greg sander

And Alex Toledo plus others from the five reasons Sports Network all right welcome back to5 on the floor it’s been a while since I’ve been on the podcast here I’m Ethan skck you follow me at Ethan J skck and at five reason Sports a floor plan I got

Brady Hawk you can follow him at Brady Hawk 305 and Greg slander you can follow him at Greg slander what are we doing the obvious the Miami heater one half of the way into their season they bring it in at 24 and 17 a dis pointing end to

The first half of the Season complete noow in Toronto outscored by 20 what was it 22 in the first quarter had one three-pointer at the half uh and made a little bit of a late charge but they were never really In Contention to win that game that came after a come come

From behind win against Brooklyn which was another poor offensive performance early uh that they settled down late and made enough plays to get it into overtime and then won it in overtime but overall they’re now on a 48 win Pace I will tell you that’s ahead of their

Vegas projections prior to this season they were typically on the 46 and a half to 47 and a half range uh looking at the books and I think overall guys I think it’s been a more entertaining first half than we saw last year and not just entertaining in terms of play style but

Just entertaining in terms of storylines you’ve had that the emergence of haime hakz the Resurgence of Duncan Robinson obviously a lot of drama as always around Tyler hero which included a lengthy absence this time around yet Jimmy Butler kind of working his way into the season in the same way he seems

To be working his way into games and they’ve had he had a really good first half from guys again like Kevin Love The Return of Josh Richardson would has been a little bit uneven and Caleb Martin who seems to be getting it together a little

Bit now after missing a lot of time due to injuries but the heat right now they sit you know I I almost hate to say where they sit because it’s really could be anywhere between fourth and sixth or fourth and seventh uh on you know depending on the day but they clearly

Sit in tier two in the East and Greg and I did a whole episode on tiers where pretty much so far this season these unlike the West it’s kind of gone according to form which is Boston Milwaukee Philadelphia at the top Miami in a group with uh Cleveland which is

Had its own share of injuries the Knicks who’ve made a major trade Orlando been one of the interesting surprises of this season and Indiana which just made a major trade to get Pascal cakam and that seems to be the five team group behind the top three and then you have teams

That are starting to sell off for at least should be considering to Toronto Atlanta Chicago Brooklyn the teams in that mix and then we’ve talked about the three teams at the bottom in Charlotte Washington and Detroit but they come in at 24 and 17 and I’m going to go to you

Guys with some numbers before we get into the five things that maybe need to change here in the second half of the season in the Jimmy Butler ERA this is the third best record they’ve taken into the halfway point out of the five the first year of the Jimmy

Butler era they were 20 excuse me they were 29 and 12 wow at the break they were on a 58 win Pace it was right after this that they started to fall off and they really struggled for a three or four- week period even though that included a trade for Iguodala Crowder

Moved out some of the pieces and then they kind of got saved in a way by the co break and then of course came back went three and five in the bubble but then positioned themselves in the Five Spot and made the run all the way to the

Finals where they lost to the Lakers year two which was an extension of year one they were 22 and 19 at the break so they’re better this year than they were that year 2122 season they were 2 6 and 15 at the break and that included some M

Time I think by that stage for bam uh where actually Kyle Lowry stepped up in a lot of those situations they were on a 52 win pace so they were at a better Pace that year than this year and last year they were 21- 20 and they ended up going from the

Playin all the way to the finals here’s some other comparisons just for those who may be interested in this stuff from previous eras four years of the big three first year of the big three 201 10 2011 30 and 11 that was after the 9 and8 start if

You remember they ripped off 21 22 uh at that point then they lost a couple games going into the Midway point 201122 which was the season that started late because of the lockout it started on Christmas day in Dallas right the the rematch game where they they obliterated

The Mavs okay in that first game 31 and 10 year three of The Big Three which actually turned out to be their biggest win season at 66 wins they were 28 and 13 at the halfway point that was actually their worst stretch at the halfway going to the halfway point but

Then of course they they that started the 27 game winning streak kind of started around then and they ended up having this uh great finish to it and then 29 and 12 in the last year of the big three which we always talk about is the season when they were tired of each

Other frustrated with everything and yet they still were 29 and 12 at the halfway point even with Dwayne missing lot of time but we knew that they had problems even though they were 29 and 12 and then just going back a little bit guys the Shaq era okay forget 07 0607 and 0708

But the first two years after Shaq arrived 29 and 12 in the first year under Stan Van Gundy 24 and 17 in the second year and I mentioned that because that’s the year the pat took over for Stan and they ended up winning the championship 24 and 17 same record that

They have right now Greg what sticks out to you about that before we get to this year’s team that that was a team that had pieces that didn’t fit that won a championship and this team may have some pieces that don’t fit and they’re still going to try to win a championship I

Think that that’s the first thing that jumps out just I’m referencing that 06 data point that you pointed out there because it’s just so on the nose with the record now I think uh another downloading moment for me is damn it felt a lot harder to be great than it

Actually was for the big three right because it felt like it was like a Herculean effort but they were getting 30 win halfway point starts pretty customary you know it was customary for them I um it’s been a better year than last year there’s no doubt it’s been

More exciting it’s been haime hakz has helped a ton I mean we have to just be honest about that and also I think that the Ascension of bam Duncan’s research these things are all moments uh that have been awesome to watch I think also seeing some of what

Um some of the bench guys have brought at different moments yic stepping into the starting lineup there’s lots of stories that we can go to that last year I felt like were absent from the run and it was a lot of just question marks and less moments where you saw answers to

Those question marks I feel like the first half of this season we saw some of the answers it doesn’t mean the questions don’t still exist but I just feel like we we saw a little bit more of what um would make a Heat fan smile in the first half of this

Year let me go to you on this on this team um glass half full had glass half empty okay so on a 48 win pace which again is a ahead of you know Vegas’s projection barely right their neet rating is slightly above middle of the pack for for all teams in the

NBA and yet it feels so if you if you project out what their net rating is they really should be like 22 and 19 honestly like that’s where they should be based on that basally on a 43 44 win pace and yet it feels to me like they’ve left games on the

Table like like which way would you look at it like should they have more than 24 wins right now or fewer I mean I think good coaching feeds into that where it kind of overrides the the net rating a lot of the time where where that kind of kicks in I mean this

Team is barely in the top 10 of of defensive rating so I mean that tells you where they are offensively but it also shows that as much as we’ve kind of looked into the uh specifics lately as a whole they’ve stepped up defensively even with guys out and that’s kind of

Been the key here it’s like now looking at this this moment right now and moving forward I we keep talking about it and I feel like we talked about this in every podcast but as much as we’re going to make this offense thing a thing the defense is where Eric spuls is going

To lean eventually so the players have to lean there as well and they’re going to eventually have to lean there with rotations and I know we’re going to get into that but in terms of them leaving more games on the table I don’t this doesn’t last year I

Felt like they should have won more but I feel like this year it’s pretty much where they should have like pretty much where they should be like I don’t last year I remember there were a lot of games where we because specifically because they were clutch games and there

Were games where it was a lot of decision-making lat in games that were deciding things this year it’s been like I feel like it’s been a lot of deciding games except for the one I forgot who they played but they had one game where they pretty much had the game in hand

And they just the other team came back and won other than that I feel like they’re pretty much where they’re where they’re kind of supposed to be so once again that feeds into the good coaching that’s with even though we’re looking at this team now with the top players they

Have not had their guys that’s another thing to kick into the fact of the standings even though they’re not going to use that excuse but I will say in a lot of the the examples that you’re using and I know like last year like yeah they they were in a worse spot and

They still ended up getting to the finals but like they ended up getting to the playin so like yeah like they made the incredible run and they could easily do that again and I’m not like knocking that but in terms of what their goal is

Their goal is to not be in the playin their goal is to be in the top six so in order to do that you better not be losing these games in the middle of the season and trying to fight for your lives at the end of the regular season

Try to put yourself in position so I think that’s the difference even though they’ve done it before it’s more so like learn from your mistakes and kind of feed into that this year I think that’s why our expoler keeps mentioning seaing which I I’ve not heard

Him mention as much in previous years as he has this year says well I think we’re in the fourth I think we’re in the fifth uh that’s a message obviously that’s been expressed his team behind the scenes when I talked to Kevin Love after game a couple weeks ago I asked him do

You ever seen the East quite like this he said no uh to have all of these teams bunched up the way that they are again the West is a different animal the West has some of the old guard hyped teams are not there at the top right now with

The exception of Denver which obviously you got to call them old guardar because they won a championship but Phoenix the Lakers uh Golden State these teams have struggled a little bit whereas Sacramento has kind of maintained a little bit of what they did last year which I don’t know if everybody was

Expecting that OKC of course has been uh the huge upside and Minnesota been the two huge upsides I wouldn’t say surprises because they both have a lot of talent but you didn’t know when they would put those things together I think particularly Minnesota uh because they

Have been choppy with this group in the past and and so I think that the West is is very unpredictable whereas the East has kind of settled in and I think Miami knows okay this is where we have to stay right like we can reach for number three

But we can’t drop before below four five we do not as BR said we don’t want to be in that six spot and having to push Jimmy push maybe Kevin Love push Kyle Lowry if he’s still here in the last couple of weeks of the Season that is

Not where they want to be and that’s why when you have a noow in Toronto it is hard to feel good about what you should feel good about which is that this team is on a 48 win Pace when they’ve had their core three guys whatever we talk about fit we’ll get to

That in the second part of this episode their core three guys have finished what eight games together now this season um I guess started 10 together they’re I think I think their preferred closing lineup uh with this group has not played a minute yet together which when I talk

About what they might prefer as a closing lineup what I thought they were trying to work towards was bam Jimmy Tyler CB and haime not a single minute that they’ve played together and so I think again there is a very easy way to look at this glass half full and glass

Half empty and I think people are picking sides on that based on whether or not they want the team to make a move like it feels like the people who who are desperate for them to make a move whether it’s for clicks or for attention or just for really because they just

Want them to make a move uh they’re going to look at this as a glass half empty first half they’re they’re going to say this team is not good enough uh they can’t stay healthy they’re never going to stay healthy we have discussed that and to a certain degree I’ve agreed

With some of that uh but I think the team the guy team the people who are not as pushy to make a move I think are looking at this in a more of a glass half full way where they’re saying all right 48 win Pace they’ve been in this

Spot before last year they were worse they did make it to the finals they’re more talented they have upside players this year in hakz and yovic contributing which they did not have last year um whatever we thought of Max and Gabe we thought they were pretty close to their

Ceilings and in Duncan’s case although he’s slowed down a little lately since going to the bench he has shown that his ceiling is higher uh I think than most thought it would be ever again in his career or at any stage of his career so I think there are positives and

Negatives to be taken from the first half I will just say this I think if they can keep reasonable Health through the rest of the season they will win more than 24 in the second half of the Season uh Eric is typically been a March

Coach and he starts to find a handle on things and I think that I my project ction right now would be 50 I think they can go 26 and 15 in the second half of the season and get to 50 but on the other side of this break we’re gonna

Talk about five things that they do need to fix to get there okay and how how they get there uh and we’ll get to that right after word from a sponsor and this sponsor is tub culture you can find them at shop tub culture.com these are friends of ours uh they follow the

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Of it let’s get to it number one thing Greg that they need to fix here well these kind of you’re going to see that they all Impact each other it’s a domino effect here but I’m going to start here I think they really need to think about um what’s going on with the

Moments between Tyler hero and Jimmy Butler on the floor that’s where I’m starting in the second half of the year we need to come to some finality on what works what doesn’t um it’s so weird that in year five we’re asking if this works I think that the results would tell us

It does work but if you look into the details and the devil is in the details here you would see that they haven’t been on the court very much when all the winnings happened um in all of these different runs it’s just been weird circumstantial stuff but we just that’s

Where I’m going to start in terms of things that need to change or what we need to see different in the second half we need to fix those moments they need to operate in different parts of the floor Jimmy can’t stand in the corner uh as as Alpha Sydney says Jimmy stands in

The quarter every time Tyler gets the ball and Tyler can’t help that well they need to work on that kind of stuff um so that’s where I’m going to start I think that that’s something that needs to be fixed if we’re going to start to poke

Holes in in in in the team at least to a degree uh in this first half of the Year assuming that there’s no trade of any of them and I don’t believe there’s going to be a trade to Jimmy Butler obviously and I still don’t believe

There’s going to be a trade to Tyler hero uh during this season so Brady to that end we saw in Brooklyn that they can make it work for pockets of the game I mean the two of them basically carried them back into it offensively at the end

Even though Jimmy took a shot that didn’t go but Tyler made big plays towards the end of that Jimmy got to the line um do you I guess it’s a simple question can they make it work how do they make it work I think they can and

Honestly I it’s not high up on my worrisome meter I’ll say like this isn’t one of the things that worries me most but it definitely is something that is important to discuss because of the the small sample siid we’ve seen this season like we’ve seen it clearly season over

Season over and over so I don’t want to I feel like we talk about it like they haven’t played together before it’s more so about this roster and I think that’s where Greg was kicking with the domino effect that we’re probably going to hit on next but I’ll say this they’re they

Have been running in the last two games more Jimmy hero a ACS that I’ve seen in a long time like I I just haven’t seen them try to force it in this way and what that tells me is that Eric spuls is trying to make it work and it feels like

Now he’s trying to make up for lost time where he knows he at this current moment it’s not about he could he could move the role players around and use different sets and and put them in position but when with the time being with not knowing how long he has with

Jim hero and Bam on the floor together in the regular season he’s going to try to maximize that those times so I felt like I think it’s important to note that I think he’s trying to figure that stuff out as well and how to maximize them

Both and the issue is and it’s always going to be this the regular season Jimmy hero combo doesn’t end up ever mattering because we see a different version in the playoffs and it’s like it’s easy to say that I know it’s going to sound repetitive but it is what it is

Like this this version of Jimmy Butler whether you like it or not whether if he’s he is sitting in the corner a couple times with Tyler has the ball that’s going to be the style that he’s going to play at this time he’s not going to play a crazy High usage in the

Regular season and all of a sudden the playoffs it’s going to turn around so maybe the time played together is kind of overblown because it’s all going to change in the playoffs but there’s no doubt that they need to figure that stuff out to kind of you can’t just be

Thrown in to the mix in a playoff series and expect to kind of figure it all at once now last thing I’ll say is even though we keep saying this the start of that Milwaukee game last year when Tyler year before he got injured Tyler played incredible and the offense looked good

And Jimmy was involved everything kind of looks smooth where that’s the kind of the pockets where I’m glad Ethan you mentioned the word Pockets because I I think it’s not can they play together it’s can they play together consistently like it’s more about the inconsistencies

That pop up I feel like between the two of them over time because now if Tyler’s in a rhythm and he keeps taking you know shot after shot and now Jimmy’s not getting the ball or vice versa that’s the stuff they need to figure out but

Once again that’s not never going to be figured out unless the reps are are there over and over so ideally we get to see a little more of that on this upcoming stretch see I I think this is uh being put all on Tyler where I don’t

Think it should be and I I was on a spaces uh today and we got into it and get to hear a lot of different perspectives on there we we appreciate everybody who joined and of course we do this on playback too and sometimes by

The time we get to the podcast I feel like we’re all taked out uh because we’ve discussed so many of these things but sometimes it does provide a little bit of clarity this is all Being Framed okay particularly by a certain segment of Heat fans as a Tyler problem

And I I I just think that that’s like I said unfair because look we talked so much about how Jimmy doesn’t want the usage in the regular season he doesn’t want the burden in the regular season and so you have somebody who is an ambitious young player when I talked to

Tyler on the side about a week and a half ago that’s the phrasing he used with me I asked him about wanting to score 25 with Five Points five five rebounds five assists he like why not I’m an ambitious young player and then we talked about efficiency and the idea

Of going 50 40 90 which by the way the 40 and 90 parts not a problem for him it’s the question of how he changes his shot distribution so maybe gets closer to the 50 and that’s the issue we talk about it at the rim and I know Sean was

On with us on Spaces today saying that Tyler doesn’t need to take fewer shots he just needs to take a different distribution of shots more threes maybe uh fewer shots at The Rim because you know again we’re kind of forcing him into a role or not or this roster is

Forcing him to a role that maybe he doesn’t fit the best in but we frame it as a Tyler thing when I mean if Tyler if you’re in Tyler’s position and I’m not speaking for Tyler I don’t know how he feels about this I’m just trying to put

Myself in in his shoes to a certain degree you don’t know which Jimmy’s coming out on a given night and so like if there’s gonna be a vacuum in terms of of of usage and scoring and all that Tyler’s gonna try to take it like that’s

The way that this is gonna go and I think I think the biggest the single biggest thing and so I’ll get to this number two and I know we had a list but I’m going to deviate from a little bit single biggest thing that these be

Figured out in in this in the second half of the season is is Jimmy Butler coming to play every night or every other night or every four nights or are we waiting for him to come every night until the second round of the playoffs like where where is that because I I

Think that so much of this feeds from his energy and then they’ll follow suit and we’ve seen at times this year he still has it in him even though the overall Rim numbers are down and the percentages are down and all that it’s in there somewhere like I’m not

Concerned that he can’t play at a high level anymore they just don’t know when it’s going to happen and if that’s the case I think that certain teammates may not know when it’s going to happen and then you have other guys trying to do too much so to me that the one the

Biggest thing is if you’re gonna compete with Giannis and Dame and Tatum and brown and porzingis and embiid and Maxi okay when it matters because those are the teams you’re worried about in the East forget the others okay they’ll handle the Knicks I’m not I’m not I know

That anobi tibs is running them to the ground already if you’re going to be be with those teams Jimmy needs to play at a level where they’re at and he has and he needs to do it again and and they have put a better roster around him this time I

Think than they ever have in this particular build okay so that to me Greg you that to me is a lot of this stuff Falls from that like right we keep saying Tyler needs to be more of an off the ball player right like Alex has

Talked about that I would prefer to see that but you’re not going to turn into Duncan he’s especially not going to turn into Duncan when there’s a void that he thinks he can fill and part of the reason that there’s a void is because Jimmy’s not at that level on a

Consistent basis so when does he need to be at that level Greg soon soon or the roster needs an upgrade because they need someone who can get to the rim like it you see the shot distribution which Sea Rochester has chronicled West Goldberg uh had it in his latest piece I

Suggest everyone read that um as as well this all feeds into one another this team needs someone to get to the rim Jimmy Butler can get to the rim but that’s not going to be where he’s going to operate right now he’s not going to go foul hunting getting 16 free throws

In every game yet he will eventually and he showed he could do it on certain nights but to me they’re gonna need to just find other ways of either other guys and Bam has helped in this department I I don’t want to Short change him uh with his free throw rate

Going up Etc they probably also need a little uh kick in the ass from a move that would be that just they they need an archetype a player that gets to the basket and that can defend and gu and guard his own yard like that I I can’t

Simplify it any further because at least that would take the burden off Jimmy having to get into this gear in February instead of it being March we’ve talked about how some of these these topics blend together so I’ll take yours into another and go to Brady here you mention overall shot distribution

Okay uh this is a 1999 offensive team they intended for it to be that way and I’m not saying that they’re going to play a bunch of games you know in the 80s uh but I mean they’re a mid-range team like that’s that’s what they are and and the shot distribution over the

Course of the Jimmy era has become more and more and more mid-range where uh again Jimmy’s numbers at The Rim are not where they were Ben bam has try to find a comfortable spot has found the dotted line and we know that they don’t get him easy looks like other bigs around the

League get easy looks because they don’t have anybody to throw him a lob Duncan seems to be the only one who consistently can get him into spots that are even more comfortable and once to and so he’s settled in the mid-range Jimmy works a lot in the mid-range Tyler

When he’s not going to the rim we’ve talked about the struggles at The Rim that he’s had this season and all the the percentage of shots that have been blocked Etc he loves the floater he loves the mid-range and i’ I’ve shared this on playback and and Discord but

When I talked to Josh the other day about him getting to the mid-range he said he’s found some of his spots but it took him some time because they’re three best players like to be in the mid-range and then you add uh you know hakz who operates From the Block has has

Developed a little bit of mid-range work and then Duncan who flat out I don’t know who he told I think he told Wes it might have been uh that he would operate more in the mid-range but everybody’s there too like they they have a mid-range team which is like in the

Playoffs that works better because typically most teams are threes and layups or dunks right all the way inside or all the way outside and so that stuff gets taken away in the playoff series and you need to go to the mid-range but in the regular season it sometimes looks clunky because

Everybody’s trying to get to the same spots okay and the analytics tell you those are not the best spots how do they fix that Brady with this current roster I mean number one when you mentioned the playoff thing the the shot distribution I feel like is always going to change in the playoffs

Anyway it’s for a lot of the reasons that we’re discussing with with a different Jimmy and he is going to take o and I I’ve honestly i’ said this before I’ve hear every year that like Jimmy is slowing down at the rim and his efficiency’s gone down and all this

Happens every year we have this discussion and then March happens and then none of it ends up mattering and I’m not until I see differently I’m not going to to go in that direction so I think in the playoffs should go to see him kind of take over that that first

Level and where now it’s more so bam and Tyler trying to take over the mid-range and ideally your role players are are taking over the three-point L but then That’s goes back to your earlier point is that I think you want Tyler and we’ve seen it at points I remember I I think

He was the one who said it when he was uh he said he wants to get up 10 threes a game and we haven’t really seen that I think that it kind of Strays away and a lot of it has to do with the fact that

He sees so much attention that it’s hard for him to get to certain some of those spots and goes back to another point you made that’s when you start to make him more of an off ball player and let him kind of get more spot up looks off uh

And kind of play that game so I think that’s a way to look at it in terms of the shot distribution but you have so many of these guys like you mentioned Hae like that literally is a mid post guy bam becoming a midst that’s all stuff in the mid-range Caleb even though

He’s come back he’s more so threes and at The Rim so I think he might be able to shift some things a little bit uh and Josh I think he’s just a little bit of everywhere like he’s just going to get a shot up no matter where he is on the floor

And then there’s Kyle who should be getting up mostly the threes but he’s not really getting shots a period so you’re not really getting a lot of shots there and Nicole yovic is not a mid-range player so that’s kind of gives you a different kind of different player

As well so a lot of this comes down to I think they’re always going to say they want to shoot more threes because they’ve shot it well this season like they they were they were number one in three-point shooting for a good portion of the year I don’t know where they are

Now they have to be still top five I would think uh maybe not after that game in Toronto but I just think they have to lean on Tyler getting more threes up I think second of all Duncan needs to be a little bit more of a priority I don’t

Want to it’s hard to say because their three guys are back and I know the main reason he was getting shots up before to that degree was because guys were out but seeing what he was able to do on a little bit of a higher volume and when

You can lean on him he opens everything else up for these guys like you could start using Jimmy as a roller and B bam obviously can do that stuff with Duncan already uh and you saw them leaning into some of those Tyler Duncan lineups before as well so so I just think that

That’s an easy way to kind of find uh a different shot meter I guess at times but to your point unless you know what Jimmy you’re getting you’re not going to know what shot distribution you’re looking at and as much as that becomes a problem it’s the same problem that we’ve discussed I

Feel like every year so as much as this is something to discuss I also want to counteract and say this is Jimmy Butler like this is the guy that that does the C crazy stuff in March and April and and this is what we’ve seen every year that

This is nothing different so I don’t want to overdo it I guess and say that like Jimmy needs to do this and that like yes I think he needs to be better and more and I don’t even want to say better because this has been two games

And one of the games he played terrific and so like I don’t want to like overdo this as well because this could just be one of those down games now in two weeks if we’re having this discussion he’s kind of having these up and down games yeah it’s 100% a conversation but right

Now I mean he’s one of he’s one of two and his two certain games so I I can’t really take that away from it’s interesting to me you mentioned guys who are not mid-range guys and that so many of their lineups look really good statistically with either Kevin Love or Nico yic in

Them I I don’t think that’s a coincidence right you have somebody on the or Duncan right you have somebody on the floor and Duncan has obviously done more at The Rim this year did in the past somebody on the floor who’s not clogging the mid-range yeah like that’s

I mean the love lineups are terrific where does Kevin play right I mean Kevin’s face is the full for them like they miss him when he’s not out there uh yic has now been a plus and individual plus minus is wonky but not one it starts to say this the 11 games he’s

Played since he came back into the rotation even before he went to the starting lineup but including the time of the starting lineup he’s been a plus in nine of them he was a plus in the Toronto game A plus six in a game that they got blown out

One of the two minus games he was a minus one and the other one was in Phoenix where everybody was a minus okay the lineups with yic and love are working because there is more space that’s created because they’re not trying to operate in the exact same spots I think that that’s instructive

Well I’m goingon to go to this before we close here because there’s a lot of other things and people are goingon to say how you fix stuff so I’ll throw this at you Greg is it more important to fix this team with changes to to the starting lineup and the closing lineup which

They’ll tell you the closing lineup’s more important or is it more important to to fix this team with a transaction uh frankly with a transaction I just I I will not budge that Kyle Lowry’s $29 million needs to be used in a different manner it doesn’t

Need to be some Splash but it just needs to be something and I’m not moving off that position I’m not one who’s called for a trade yet I understand how these things progress I don’t want anything to be rushed I’m not looking for an overpay I just saw what um large expiring

Contracts netted last year in the trade market and this trade market is even more reasonable I think from a value perspective so to me there’s no reason to go out be aggressive see what you can get and try to fortify this roster because you never know when Jimmy Butler does

Finally no longer become March and April Jimmy Butler how many more of those years do you have and so like why are you playing with fire and not fortifying the lineup to me that’s the biggest thing all the stuff internally is where the team is going to point to because

Obviously this is a um more of a fand driven take by me to say that it’s a transaction but I just don’t see how they fix the the the stuff getting to the rim and also just finishing at The Rim it’s not just frequency it’s also

Accuracy at the rim and I I just feel like there’s going to have to be an outside player that comes in to fix that all right so I think this is in stages okay um I think they need to change the starting lineup now I I’ll start there okay you can’t

Continue to start KY Lowry at the point you you just you just can’t and and we were having this conversation on on Spaces uh today and the way I put it and we had Siobhan on from Heat beat we were kind of talking this through you know

It’s one thing for Kyle to come to camp and look around and there’s no point guards on the roster and Gabe’s not here anymore and you are going to the hall of fame most likely someday and it’s almost insulting for the media to ask about your starting job when it’s Drew Smith

RJ Hampton and Josh Richardson who’s not a point guard okay and as much as the heat would like to be position L Eric sper does believe in a floor General type if he if he can get one he’d like one and so I understand why Kyle reacted

The way that he did and I understand why the team backed off from its position that he was not gonna start because I can tell you two weeks before training camp I was still being told we don’t project Kyle as a starter right that’s not we know we want to preserve him for

The playoffs we want to monitor his minutes off the bench right whenever I would say well you know you had Wade come off the bench you had drage come off the bench they they did a lot more for this organization uh than Kyle has right but so you know it shouldn’t be

About politics itics okay uh it’s a 41 game sample size now like you gave it half a season okay and you’re getting no production from the position I me I mean you’re getting I mean in in January the most field goals made he’s had in any

Game or three and it’s not because he can’t shoot he won’t shoot and I I do think that when you look at what he provides with some of the bench units or others then some of the things he does do the pointing the organizing kind of

Stuff can be of value but in the starting lineup okay you have to cover for him like we we talk like I think yic should remain a starter but you cannot continue to start yic and Lowry together you’re not pulling Tyler out of the starting lineup I’m sorry that ship has

Sailed and there are politics involved in that one and there should be he’s 23 years old he’s part of the future of the franchise and if you’re not keeping him which they likely are but if you’re not keeping him you have to keep his trade

Value up and moving him to the bench is a six man at this stage I’m sorry that ship sailed two years ago it’s over with that’s not the guy you moved to the bench if it’s not working it’s Kyle’s job in the starting lineup to make it work for Tyler and

Jimmy it’s not happening so try something else okay at this stage and you cannot start him and yic together so if you’re gonna continue to start yic then you need to go with someone else I have three options that would be better all right haime hakz just go with it

Just go with it that’s your future put him and Tyler in the back court together and see how that works shoot roll him Tyler and yic together with bam and Jimmy play your toe four for the future with Jimmy and see where it goes or you play Kaleb Martin as a starter

All right and you try to maximize what you can get for him because you may not be keeping him next season you may be trading him before the deadline but take a look at that or play H play play Hayward heith where you know at least you’re going to cover the point of

Attack defensively I I know that’s a favorite of yours Brady okay these are all options or even start Duncan and get the spacing and and the connection with B but I don’t understand the value of which was yours Duncan trying Duncan yeah okay so Duncan so any of the four okay or and

I’m not saying don’t play Kyle at all I’m saying put him on the bench and look if he takes Josh’s minutes for the time being he takes Josh’s minutes okay if that’s the direction if SPO wants to go with a more veteran hand on the bench I

Can get behind that but this idea of starting first quarters and starting third quarters playing four on five it’s it’s demoralizing and it’s there’s nothing being done to help Brady especially and we keep saying this over and over when Eric spuler is trying to play this defensive style and quoting

The in the mud and saying all the stuff but then having you know Kyle Tyler Jimmy yic bam like that is not a lineup that is going out there to lock up opposing teams in the regular season uh then there’s also the point that I was making yesterday which is you have two

Guys that as good as yic has been is not high volume he’s not a high volume scorer guy that’s gonna put the ball up and we know Kyle is not so now you’re basically saying the stuff that we started this podcast talking about with Jimmy and Tyler it’s essentially all on

Them to be the offensive with them to be the offensive engines uh and it just doesn’t feel like a strong formula now you might be saying well Haywood’s not a high volume guy but he provides something on the opposite end and he’s still G to take that spot of Jumper as

We’ve seen over and over if he has that shot he’s going to take it and the same goes for Caleb Bren the options you discussed so they I keep saying this over and over and as as much as they say and I’ve been a proponent saying closing lineup matters more than starting lineup

But the closing lineup as I said yesterday like if you can’t get to your closing lineup the starting lineup becomes you know a bigger problem you start to look around and saying okay wait maybe we do have to change this and Ethan I said this as a joke yesterday

I’m actually interested to get your opinion because I said if there was a game for them to do it would it not be a game like tomorrow night where there’s there’s going to be other topics floating around like Udonis Haslam and it just seems like there’s going to be

You know we wouldn’t be talking a whole lot about the starting lineup after Udonis HMS the big topic of the night so I don’t know I feel like if especially after that last game if there was a night to do it I feel like it might be

Tomorrow night I mean if you ever going to get a night from Kyle where he was going to bring back the past you would have thought it would have been in Toronto right so that didn’t happen I I agree with you in fact we’ve even disc

I’ve even thinking should we even do a podcast about the game Friday night just be all about UD we actually that’s up to you Greg but that may be a direction that you want to go because you’ll be hosting the Pod this is not personal it’s just this again I talk about ship

Sailing like it is what it is at this stage that the the organization was not planning on Kyle hour being a starting point guard this year and now you got it another half season look at it and I I I don’t understand even running him into the ground with more minutes at this

Stage like you’re 20 he’s still averaging his minutes are down from where they were early in the season he’s still at 28 and a half so whether you’re trading the contract or not preserve him so that he can be of value for you later on the year for what

He still can provide and maybe he gives you a couple of games where he has a throwback where he actually takes five threes because again he’s not a bad spot up shooter he just doesn’t do it consistently he looks like he’s trying to get out of everybody else’s way

That’s not I mean they could have RJ Hampton out there getting out of everybody else’s way okay but at least you know he would be a bulldog on the defensive end I just I’ll let you close with it Greg because I know your thought is trade the contract if you’re not

Trading the contract you need to at least trade your own priorities on this and I I just I I can’t see it I mean he’s last in all statistical categories for starting point guards in the NBA except shooting percentage except effective field goal by the way is his

Best effective field goal percentage of his career just he just won’t shoot so so where are you at right now people point to the lineup data and they say all of Kyle’s lineup data looks great well part of that is is that he does what Kevin Love and those guys do and

That he gets out of the way that’s why Kevin Love’s lineup data looks good too imagine what he could do if what the lineup data could look like if he was actually a threat so to me you’re right this is a progression uh a progressive bunch of fixes first it’s

Adjust the starting lineup get Jimmy and Tyler more minutes together start to create your pecking order and then it’s like then you figure out who’s closing because youve started to get a handle on the rest of the group so that that’s kind of where I lay and that that that

That starts with Kyle Lowry because he has to move out of the starting lineup and any of these options would work but it has to happen and it doesn’t have to be via transaction I think you’re right I think that they’ve given it 41 games

They can easily come to him and say okay now it’s time for us to make a change and see if we can do something different they can always go back to it if they gulp have to I mean they they went back to it last

Year oh we we talked about it at the um when he when he took the extended leave of absence last season and I said I didn’t know if they would go back to him right we didn’t and they they did I mean they they I mean Gabe was the starter

But Kyle got minutes and he had important minutes and he had important games as they went forward but I I again I think and I’m going to say there’s nothing owed to anybody at this stage they they paid him handsomely for three seasons there were very good moments

There obviously it hasn’t worked out here towards the end like you would have hoped I the chemistry between him and Jimmy on the floor has never been I think what what we expected uh in terms of making some of the other stuff worthwhile but it’s not nothing personal

It’s just I mean either keep saying well they won’t have a point guard they don’t have a point guard that’s the thing like he he in terms of initiating offense he’s like the seventh or eighth guy that they use so if that’s the case if he was

A pit bull defensively like he was at certain stages of his career then sure but you’re having to start start either a high Smith or a Marton or somebody like that just to cover up for it and if you want to go if if I’m G say if if the

If the decision is to keep him happy you can’t play him and yic together consistently I think that’s going to be shown in the starting lineup if the decision with hero if the decision is to keep him happy or to continue niiko Yi’s development a 20-year-old who you’re

Trying to project as a big part of your future what are we doing here right I mean this is no place quote correct and look this NBA basketball like this podcast is no place for Old Men which is why I’ll probably be phased out of here pretty

Quick as well at some point all right thanks to Greg thanks to Brady uh and thanks to our sponsors tub culture shop tub culture.com use the code 5 fi and check out you break we’ll fix starting with you have a good one thank you for listening to the five on the floor on

The fire reing Sports Network after all someone needs to listen to my dad

With the Heat halfway through the season, Ethan Skolnick, Brady Hawk and Greg Sylvander compare to past Heat seasons (from the Jimmy Butler era and prior) and look at what most needs to get better for them to make another significant playoff run. The starting lineup? The Jimmy Butler and Tyler Herro connection? And what requires a transaction?

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