Miami Heat: How to handle the Kyle Lowry situation | Five on the Floor

Miami Heat: How to handle the Kyle Lowry situation | Five on the Floor

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0112 and now today’s episode ride for my dogs where here the thing you can check the score Hustle Hard couple SCS wear bubble frogs just like say you in trouble yo check the plan got it all B y’all seen the block stop one hand and Pat trust this have

The guts we here to bring the heat y’all can hang it up welcome to five on the floor a daily Insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan scholet Greg sander and Alex Toledo plus others from the five reasons Sports Network all right welcome back to five

On the floor here’s today’s floor plan I’m Ethan skullnick and follow me Ethan J skullnick and five Reon Sports I got Greg sander you can follow him at Greg sander and as we mentioned sign up for or off the floor best thing that you can do today related to the Miami Heat all

Right Greg and I are going to dive into the Kyle Lowry situation and we will do a little bit of projection in terms of where this could go that’s going to be in the second half of this episode but I think it’s important at this stage after

What happened last night of course yanis hasm night which was tremendous we could do 10 full episodes on that maybe at some point uh we’ll even have you on the Pod to talk about it and everything that uh he experienced last night that heat

Do a great job on that kind of stuff as well as any organization uh in sports and and great touches with the the chairs uh dedicated to to his parents just everything they did last night was great it was great to see drit it was

Great to see Wade there it was great to see Quinton Richardson there who uh had one year in Miami or derell Wright coming back or any of the others who came back for this Shane Bader Etc uh it was it was perfect uh for UD except for

The result the result of the game of which I know he was probably pissed about when he left and you know that’s that’s the thing I mean he bleeds this stuff like you do and you know a 109 to 108 loss at home to an Atlanta team that

Has been struggling as it is and was without Trey young is just not acceptable and we can get into all the reasons why that happened but the storyline became as it’s become a lot of times Kyle Lowry and so we want to get into the Lowry part of this and we want

To try to do it fairly but we want to give you as much backstory as we can so we will get into kind of where things stood before last night what actually happened last night as we’re speaking here and then again where we’re gonna go here and we will do

A separate episode on dejonte Murray that’s just dedicated to him so we’re gonna bring in the the big strategy guns for that uh Brady and Alex to talk about what the fit might be there but Greg let’s start here with with Kyle to let’s go back to the very beginning okay they

Heat pursued Kyle lry like not once but many times they pursued him in 2014 before LeBron left like they were trying to get Kyle to come here and Kyle who if you remember the beginning of his career he didn’t fit in in some places Houston Memphis Etc didn’t really find

Uh consistency he put up big numbers in some of those places uh he was a starter for a period of time at times he played with other real high-end point guards in those places but it was Toronto that Kyle found his fit right so it’s not

Like he found his fit from the very beginning even as a first- round pick out of Villanova it it took a couple places you know again Houston Etc Memphis whatever and then he gets to uh Toronto and they embraced him and he embraced them and he became the face of

Their franchise like you can talk about D rozan and his friendship with D rozan or obviously what Kawai brought when Kawai came in and got them over the top but Kyle was the favorite and and I I’ll go back to this okay I I had great

Respect for Kyle for a lot of reasons but particularly because of the 2016 playoff series against Miami where if you remember he struggled badly in that series he couldn’t shoot at all right he made the half court shot and all the rest of that that was later in the

Series he couldn’t shoot at all and I remember going out to the Toronto practice facility which was I think a little bit outside the city and all the Canadian media seemed to have a relationship with him like and they were all sitting there waiting for him to talk and I gave him

Tremendous credit I I wrote a column about it I forgot who I was even working for at the time oh at the heral about how accountable he was he sat there for 12 minutes took every question blamed it on himself the definition of a leader and

They won that series of course and we can argue whether he would have won that series if Whiteside had been healthy if Bosch had been playing and I believe firmly if they’d won that series that they would have pushed Cleveland in the next round in the Eastern Conference

Finals because they push the Cavs all year uh even with LeBron on the other side but Lowry persevered okay and again I thought handled himself in a tremendous way that was after Miami pursued him two years earlier then Miami was linked to him many times after right and then was

Linked in one more more time didn’t get him at the trade deadline and that’s when they ended up bringing in Oladipo they had Lowry kind of at the Forefront everybody knew he was Jimmy’s closest friend or one of his closest friends in the league they didn’t get him they

Pivoted at the last second to Ola Depot right got all dep with like seven minutes left before the trade deadline from Houston we all know how that turned out but you know we understand why they did it they traded oin Etc they took a flyer on Vic and obviously Vic ran into

A bunch of bad circumstances even after he came they tried to get Kyle then and then the next off season they went after him again so this is not like he didn’t know the kind of person or player that they were getting now they knew he’s a declining player because that year in

Tampa when Toronto was playing in Tampa he didn’t play very well but we kind of said okay well they were not playing at home there were a lot of different factors that went into that season covid Etc the Raptors were in a strange deal they went after him again and they

Weren’t the only team going after him like this is the thing like when people talk about the whide decision right going back to 2016 other teams wanted Hanan Portland made him a Max offer other teams made him Max offers Miami had to decide do you want to keep the asset or not in

This case they had to decide did they want to pay him what he was asking for and give him the third year and the major reason they had to do that was because New Orleans David Griffin in charge there was right there there were other teams talked about Philly there

Were other teams that were in the mix but New Orleans was right there and so Miami bit its tongue okay or not bit its tongue you know the expression I’m looking for gave him the third year they knew when they gave it to him that it could

Look like this they knew I’ve talked to them at the time I talked to them afterwards they knew that he was again a declining player his defense had come down a little bit and then he also could be a little bit problematic if things didn’t go his way and they weren’t

Exactly sure how he would handle going to a new culture after he had been the toast of Toronto and helped them win a championship in 2019 right I mean they’re building statues to him up there like they do to Dwayne down here so they knew this could be a problem but I don’t

Think and I’ll go to you here and then we’ll go into what happened last side I don’t think they would they thought it would be this big a problem no I don’t think they thought he would decline to quite this stage and not have the self-awareness to realize how much he’s

Declined and so I think that’s where we’re at right now is an organization that kind of knew what it was getting into but kind of thought it wouldn’t still be an issue because he might not even still be here at this stage is that

A fair way to look at it it is but I think there’s even more to it I think that there’s a part of it that um they maybe thought they would have already got one and that like the peak of the Kyle Lowry experience had came and gone

And if you had gotten it done in the finals or in the Eastern Conference Finals the year before had they hit that shot and gone to the finals you never know what happens like I think that that’s what you you think through I don’t fault them for going after Kyle

Lowry I mean let’s be honest that’s Jimmy Butler’s best friend Jimmy Butler wanted him here that’s your Superstar player you’re building a new team around him as you convinced him to join Miami when you had no cap space and so if Jimmy Butler’s going to nudge you in a

Direction I think you’re going to take that nudge seriously and they did and and Kyle fit initially it seemed like he was kind of what they were missing that first year when Jimmy was almost cast as a point guard and um then it’s I guess what’s gotten weird and we’re going to

Talk about kind of what unfolded last night because I think a lot of people if they watch the game and didn’t understand this context on social media would be like why the hell are y’all bringing up Kyle Lowry there’s so much other stuff that happened last night um

But it’s like a situation where when you see the way that he responds to certain things and and it’s been this way since he arrived I just think it’s a weird vibe that’s been that I didn’t expect I thought that there’d be more of a buyin

Even if some of it is just for the cameras it there’s just been a resistance to the entire experience that I didn’t expect from anyone that would be signing here and kind of I thought that they knew what they were getting in Kyle but Kyle also knew what he was

Getting into and arriving in Miami and so that’s why it’s just been a little bit um underwhelming of an experience between the two because I guess I just would have thought you would have figured both parties would have understood where they were uh at this

Juncture a little bit more and um and it just hasn’t ironed out that way I’m glad you brought that up because I can tell you that people who are supporters of Kyle who were very much in favor of the move I’m not talking about inside the organization but those who know Kyle

Okay they’ve been surprised that he hasn’t embraced it more so it’s not just your perception from the outside it was having a conversation with somebody about this yesterday um after we kind of found out what was really going on which again I’ll get into that uh in the next segment of this

Show they don’t know why he came down and didn’t seem to want anything to do with anything because that was not the case in Toronto and you know I started thinking about this even before yesterday when I saw a quote from Dwayne and I don’t even know where this

Aired because Dwayne’s done a lot of stuff over the past week and obviously he’s been in town but I’ve always said that I’ve compared Kyle in Miami to Dwayne and Chicago and Cleveland okay like you are so beloved in one place you are everybody knows you uh you know

You’ve made your mark there that’s you know in the NBA you don’t go into the Hall of Fame with a certain team it’s not like baseball but you kind of do like that there you know you’re associated with a certain team right and Dwayne was like he was like in a

Wilderness period in Chicago and Cleveland and he actually I saw a quote from him I’ve never heard him actually say this but he said in Cleveland he doesn’t even remember most of it like he wasn’t even there he’s like I wasn’t you know what I’m saying and when I talk to

Those you know people know I’m close with Vinnie Goodwill who covers the uh who’s who who covers the NBA brilliantly for Yahoo but uh at the time when Dwayne went up to Chicago I talked to Vinnie because he he was he’s like what’s what’s Dwayne like and I I was like he’s

Like this he’s like you know I said I you know I’ve dealt with Dwayne since his first Summer League game 2003 like I you know I don’t say I’m Dwayne’s best but I know I know how Dwayne operates I know what pisses him off I know what

Kind of things he’ll talk about what he won’t and it was funny because Vinnie developed a relationship with Dwayne in part I think because I I had sort of told Dwayne that Vinnie was one of the ones up there that he should talk to uh but but also did they just developed a

Little bit of bond but he said yeah he’s not like the way you said he was in Miami he’s not like that here with others okay and and I think then he goes to Cleveland and you know he’s with LeBron and he has that experience with

LeBron where that was not the same as here and LeBron basically was fine with him leaving okay right which I think is where Jimmy is with Kyle right now at this stage by the way I think there’s another similarity because Dwayne wasn’t happy and here Kyle doesn’t seem happy

And if you’re a guy’s friend you want the guy to be happy okay but you also want to win LeBron wants to win LeBron they made those changes in that season they ended up making changes that paid off for them if you remember they brought in a whole bunch of different

Guys they shuffled the deck that year and here we are right Jimmy wants to win and so this idea that he would stop a Kyle Lowry trade I don’t buy that at all and you look at last year where he got up on the podium people asked me

About this last night and he said Kyle’s not going anywhere everybody took that for Jimmy’s going to stomp if Kyle leaves no he won’t no he won’t I can I can absolutely tell you a 100% that that is not the case again he’s Kyle’s friends first before he’s his teammate

He was his friend long before he became his teammate and so I don’t think he would stand in the way in fact I know that okay because I know that that some of those who’ve been surprised about the way Kyle has handled things here have been those who know Jimmy very well and

And I think that you know it’s one thing to have someone said this to me last night too and this is a common phrase you use throughout the NBA but it’s used differently Kyle corver said to me in a locker room once he was talking about I

Forgot he was talking about but he was playing with the Hawks and Kyle has now you know gotone into management very smart guy and Kyle said you can have one knucklehead on a team you can’t have two can’t give him a buddy and somebody said to me last night use almost the exact

Same phrasing when it came to Kyle but not about knucklehead Kyle’s not a knucklehead but you you can have one problem player one difficult player but you can’t right you can’t have two Jimmy’s not a Mal content but everybody even his closest friends acknowledge he’s difficult you you he can go either way

Depending on the day and he have learned to manage that situation you understand they but when you have a second okay and the second is not producing at the level to make it worthwhile okay like with Jimmy they’ll with anything and they should because he’s delivered what they’ve paid him to

Do he has delivered he has dragged them to the finals twice to the Eastern Conference Finals three times he’s gonna sit some games he’s gonna go do a press conference with his shirt off okay but he has done look he he infuriates certain people inside the organization

At times but they will deal with it because he’s he’s held up his end of the bargain like Udonis has them loves that dude like we talk about UD like he views Jimmy as the ultimate in heat culture even though he’s a pain in the effing

Ass right okay Kyle hasn’t earned any of that here and so now you have a situation where you’ve got you know one guy who you’ll deal with it but the other guy okay and so now you get to again the very beginning of this and I

Don’t I look I don’t care about the media stuff anymore some are gonna want to deal with us and some aren’t am I surprised that Kyle came down and wanted nothing to do with the local media yes because that’s not what I was told in Toronto but again Wayne went to Chicago

And Cleveland and I heard that from some up there so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but it’s the other stuff it’s you talking I remember at at training camper at media Day last year where you know Pat says you know the thing about conditioning and most players here would

Have said okay I get it and i’ because look Kyle did get in better shape this year he did absolutely but it’s like he wanted to fight just for the sake of fighting it like I’m not gonna go along with it so you start to add this stuff up and

You’re like okay he doesn’t he doesn’t want really anything to do with the media stuff I know there’s been some I don’t want to get into specifics of it but there’s been some situations where he hasn’t gone with the rest he hasn’t done some things that the rest of the

Team is done at times I’m not I I I’ll just leave it at that okay and so there’s there’s a combination of these factors and again you can put up with it if he’s playing at a high level but before I get to last night and we’ll do

Two breaks here because I feel like this episode is worth it all right before I get to the the last night starting point guards points per game I was doing this last night during the game okay on scratch paper Brady Brady and Gad were making fun of me this

Is how I still do things so I went back in heat history and look it’s not all about points per game okay impact can be judged in other ways if you’re performing in a high enough level in other ways defensively m uh or you know setting guys up setting the

Tone you can look past some of this but I went back through all the starting point guards in heat history Kyle right now is averaging 8.4 points a game he’s not doing it in a small number of minutes he’s doing it in almost 29 minutes a night okay he’s playing what

60 60 to 70% of every game yeah the only times in heat history that the starting point card has averaged single digit I’m talking about the primary starting point guard for the team you have to go to you uh Brian Shaw in 9394 but Steve Smith and him were kind

Of Co co-o guards it’s hard to really say who was the point guard but let’s give it let’s just because Steve Smith Never averaged single digits with the heat so except when he came back that one year all right let’s say it’s Brian Shawn nine points per

Game then you’ve got a few that average like 10 like B there’s a couple bimbo Kohl’s years in there 10.0 10.1 they weren’t paying bimbo Kohl’s on a commensurate portion of payroll what they’re paying K and that’s pre Riley right Travis best 8.4 points in that weird season of 20022 2003 karan’s

Rookie year before Dwayne came in all right during the Sha years Damon Jones they literally got off the street I mean he played in nine different cities okay he averaged 11 points six points they weren’t paying him anything that’s the reason he left he left that off season

Because he asked for a long-term contract and they were kind of like okay hit the road right and they went out and got Jay will who averaged 10.9 by the way in his first season okay there’s a 10 there’s an 8.8 season for Jay will 0708 that was a disaster season right

That’s when you can’t even judge anything we we all blacked out during that season we don’t remember it correct all right so Rio as a rookie Mario chamers they were four point guard from heat history in the in the building yesterday it was great to see Rio joking

Around with Goron okay uh and and and you had obviously Timmy right and and Jay will was there Jay will averaged 8.8 points in 0708 Rio averaged 10 points in 0809 so all the way up through the year 2009 2010 no point guard who has started the

Majority of the games from Miami Heat has averaged fewer points than Kyle Lowry’s averaging this season 200920 they had three different point guards uh a royal average 6.1 Rio averaged 7.1 and raay for Alon averaged 6.6 before he disappeared okay so point guard by committee all right then you go to the

Big three era and that first year we know was a point guard disaster right that was that was where lar went it was like run the point night run the point night right those guys are putting up numbers similar what Kyle is um that was a royal with 5.6 points

Per game in 42 starts Rio who should have been starting the whole season I will always hold to that 6.4 points and BBY at 7.3 do you remember what a disaster Mike bbby was I do okay not from an efficiency standpoint because BBY was much worse but from the other

Standpoints there hasn’t been that much difference from that Mike BBY and this Kyle Lowry 201 11202 Rio average 9.8 1213 8.6 again a little bit of context there he was playing with LeBron and Dwayne like his role was not that now you can say that Kyle is not that necessarily either

That’s fair but when Rio had an open shot he took it he took it so the offense team needs what it need needs you know what I mean like that’s an important part of this too yes and then 1314 Rio average 9.8 and then the drog cheers okay where we’re not even get

We’re not even sniffing single digits at that point right so when Kyle L yesterday we’ll go to break and we’ll get back to this says that he’s wants to continue to start or plans or he’s hoping it to start to continue doing what he’s been doing this year as a starter

I have my little sheet here and I’m like is that enough it’s not enough and that’s kind of where they’re at but I want to get into more specifics of what happened last night so we’ll do that here after the break first we want to talk about our friends excuse me at

Water cleanup of Florida you can find them at wcu.com wcu.com Michael Robert and his team they’re based in bokeron they service the entire Tri County Area um your one stop water and mold cleanup shop The Leak Detection that’s what they told me that you focus on the most because once

You get a leak then you got problems they can come over and they can do all that preventative work for you so get in their preventative program we just had a couple more people sign up for them we can tell you everybody we’ve sent to them has said good people honest people

If they can’t do the job they won’t try to do it we know a lot of contractors are not that way reach out to these folks again they can service if you’re in Miami you’re in Broward you can they can service your your house or business

As well so reach out to them water cleanup of Florida wcu.com mention five reasons if you’ve got the Schwartz they got the guts all right so let’s get to the last thing all right I knowledge I arrived late myself okay not for the game but later I had to

I had to drop my daughter off uh all the way up in boar Ron and then cycle back down to Miami before tip off so I got there about 7 15 for an 8:00 start I’m typically there two and a half hours before the game okay that’s why Brady

And dad started that’s right well actually Gad got there after me Gad Gad had the Alex role where he got there right right around tip off like is Alex here and then sometimes he in the seat sometimes he’s downstairs or whatever I know he’s not in the media room eating

Because Brady and Alex are both too bougie to to eat in the uh in the media room like I do but I I’ll just say this I I was not there as early as usual but I wasn’t late okay um I would tell you there are five

People who have been around the team a long time in a reporting capacity I’m I’m actually gonna say six because I include Brendan Tobin and that now as well because he’s there he’s there all the time on the radio side okay uh but there’s five of us who’ve been around the organization

For some length of time working for you know Publications and all the rest and again I always appreciate the access because you know we’re the least experienced Outlet of all these so I appreciate that the Heat have continued to credential uh even as I’ve moved on

To my own Enterprise here um and I can tell you that of those five who don’t work for the team because there are others who know things but kind of do some work for the team so I’m not going to include them in this but I can tell

You that they knew last night too okay uh of the five of us I know for a fact that at least four of us knew that what happened with Kyle and not starting was a one-day disciplinary thing okay I mean like four of the five of us to the point that we were

Discussing it before and during the game like how are we were gonna handle this okay and I can tell you that the thing was not big deal the way that it was put to me it was not a big deal like it happens on a team okay they don’t understand why they he

Handled it the way they did after the game I and I don’t understand what Kyle handled the way because to me if it’s a one day if it’s a one day disciplinary thing which is a common thing for various NBA teams it was made into more by not just acknowledging

That and so what ends up happening is spoler is asked about the situation and doesn’t say anything about that or at least doesn’t speak to it because Ira asked I’ll just say Ira asked the question he used the word disciplinary in a question that he asked

Because obviously he was one of the four people that that knew I didn’t even know he knew until after the game I knew I knew two others knew um and so and and spoler I I guess in the answer and I’ve listened to the answer a couple times he pushes aside the whole

Disciplinary aspect of it so it makes it look like it’s more of a kind of exploring a starting lineup change right and then Barry and I were in the locker room and we approached and I’ll give Barry the credit he had the you know you know the whatevers to ask Kyle the first

Question on this and I’ve posted that on social media the answer and in the answer Kyle essentially says it does not acknowledge any kind of disciplinary thing but says that he he you know expects you know that SPO wanted to look at something different that was a quote

But that he hopes okay I don’t even know know hopes was the word he used but you know to be back in the starting lineup in the next game and that set Twitter on fire because everybody’s like well what is you know Kyle made this kind of I don’t

Want to say demand but expressed his expectation in training camp right very first day that we got to FAU he did speak to the media he obviously wanted to get off his chest and get it over with and we were all called over to the

Side and he said I expect to be the starting point guard and you know what he won the starting point guard job Camp because there was no other starting point guard it was hard to make an argument for anyone else whether it was RJ Hampton or Drew Smith or even Josh

Richardson who’s my original Contender for it but they didn’t see enough in Camp from him to make make that switch and it was easier just to go along with what I was told they weren’t going to do two weeks prior to training camp I was told we don’t really think Kyle’s going

To be the starting point guard because we want to manage his minutes it’s for the best interest of him and the team throughout the season and then he ends up being the starting point guard and then everybody starts getting hurt and Jimmy’s out and Tyler’s out and Dam’s

Out and so Kyle ends up logging way more minutes than anybody thought he would or wanted him to not just because it would be bad for the team but because it would be bad for him if they were gonna be able to to if he’s still GNA be with the

Team if he’s gonna get to the Finish Line with this team right and be productive in the playoffs when it really matters so they gave it 41 games and I mean the numbers are the numbers like his efficiency from as a shooter is fine but he doesn’t shoot

That much and defensively we know they have to cover up for him particularly at the point of attack so by Kyle by them by it not being addressed what we heard it was okay it’s now become something bigger yeah in my view right like because now it’s okay

Now what do you do so now it’s trial looked like he was petulent after the game right like he comes off petulent like that SP wanted to look at something different but I expect to get my starting job back so now we’re right back to training camp except we’re 41

Games later and now 42 right bad luck and there’s enough of a sample size to know that this is not working right and now uh you know on Twitter he’s getting flamed and I don’t really know how you walk out of this I guess without what

We’re going to get to in the third part of this episode because I guess it leaves the door open for them to not start him against Orlando yeah because if you’re if you don’t say it was a one-day disciplinary thing but but by the way it’s not like

He didn’t play at all he played not only did he play he played ahead of Duncan Robinson during stretches of the game that I actually thought they would have been better served with Duncan out there and as soon as they took Kyle out and

Put Duncan back in they went on a 70 run at the end of the game before they gave that up okay but I guess it leaves the door open and one of the reporters I was talking to last night says well I understand first thing they don’t like to reveal

What their team rules are we know that I’ve had 25 year history of that so that’s just that’s just like the default position but also it leaves the door open now to not starting him on Sunday because you haven’t said it was because of this other thing yeah so it

Could be just you know to the fans it just looks like okay it’s we’re evaluating the situation and we’re taking a look at different combinations right but now that’s been blown up because Kyle has basically come out and said that I expect to start correct so

Now they have a bigger issue than they would have had otherwise right am I wrong about that I’m sure somebody will correct me I mean I you know from the you know front office or whatever and I’m happy to take that correction and listen to them as I always do I just I

Don’t know it’s like a mountain of a mle and we were all kind as reporters we were all kind of in the locker room yesterday be you know and I know Barry and I were talking were like is this really how this is gonna be be handled

Here like this has become I I don’t know yeah to me something stinks bad like a like a dead fish that was left in the backseat of your car too long and it’s like um a situation I don’t know where uh where they go from this because it’s it’s one

Thing they could all come into against Orlando act like nothing happened that’s option a option b is uh start him again and I think fans are starting to catch on to that like that’s not working out so like let’s be honest there I think the team

We all know that that’s not working out I think there’s some other things in the starting lineup that we could talk about too so it’s not just Kyle I think that should be clear um and then the other thing that that that’s weird is um they could start like I guess what do

You do do you just keep him off the bench do you bring him back and and start him because he’s going to be the same way he was in training camp and expect that spot I feel like that they’re in this weird position where they’re walking on eggshells with a guy

That doesn’t deserve that equity in what’s been built here specifically maybe Equity throughout the league but here it’s a little bit weirder and then I start to come to this place where if you want to be a good um teammate and a good uh member of the organization outstanding member of the organization

In terms of uh buying into everything that’s happening and and that kind of thing but you’re not producing okay if you’re going to be a little bit Moody about it all why would you not start to look for something else look for another move look for a better situation with

Different players even if it’s addition by subtraction to some degree I just think that that’s where we’re heading and um I I can’t avoid that we’ve landed in this place and I don’t know where the or goes next like that that’s the part of it that I think is weird is that does

The team now come out and address these quote unquote rumors or do they not speak about it at all I think we’re we both probably would agree that they’re not going to necessarily address it but it makes it feel like something just stinks around the entire situation well you’re talking about

Addition by subtraction right and this was the point where uh that was actually supposed to be the case but more from a financial perspective like that’s as I said at the top of the show they knew that the third year was going to be problematic and that word was used with

Me in his first year and that’s even when he was producing and I do want to give him credit and I think we need to give him credit there were pockets of time during the first and even the second year that he played a key role for them like especially when that

Period of time where bam was out okay and Kyle I remember middle of that first season he was huge in helping lead them to a number one seed this is not a total disaster okay like some have characterized it it’s not but it’s been trending this way for a long time the

Organization kind of again knew they may end up in this place and by the way it’s not just him we talk about these situations Tim Hardway was you know given huge Ovation yesterday right and has been totally embraced by the organization again but Tim by the end of

His tenure I covered it was not happy they were not happy with him he was frustrated by what he called the fat Clause uh in his contract they also had the three to1 assist to turnover ratio Clause he was not productive in his last year they were phasing him out for

Anthony Carter like this is not the first and you mentioned these other situations so let’s get to them I mean they signed Assan whites side planning on him being a franchise player that’s why they paid him the Max and then it was like okay who’s going to

Take this guy off our hands and they did a masterful job executing that not only doing it but getting Jimmy Butler back in the process I will never understand how they pulled that off right uh James Johnson Dion Deon Raiders is another example of this and on on a lesser note

Justice Winslow’s last year like justice was he culture personified right like that’s how he was portrayed his first couple years years and then when they didn’t necessarily agree uh the two sides on the severity of an injury that he had it was you know best for all

Parties to kind of part raise and they proved to be right you know I root for justice but I they proved to be right about that when they’re done they’re done like that’s the thing like they’ll put up with a certain amount to a certain point but when they’re done

They’re done and I I just this has felt done for a while but it’s just that there were no other options and I I feel like if Gabe had been brought back we’d be having a totally different conversation because Kyle did go to the bench for Gabe last

Year uh and you know he did play a role in the playoffs Off the Bench and he was important in that role but when you didn’t have Gabe anymore then now all of a sudden there’s just no I mean it’s Josh is not a point guard I I tried to

Push that agenda a little bit before training camp obviously he’s not he can’t give you the exact same things to Gabe Gabe’s not really a point guard either but he’s more of one than Josh is that they there’s no other place to turn here and so the only other place to turn

And and I want to just at Le introduce one more sponsor and then you and I I’ll do this quickly because I want to get to this more in another episode The Other Place to turn is to to make is is to make a move um you know but to your

Other point I don’t think they’ll address it I just think it’ll be interesting to see who starts on Sunday um and and I think I think if he if he starts on Sunday then the fans are GNA take it and that’s why I want to do this podcast like oh he got his

Way but I don’t think that’s I don’t but I don’t think that’s actually what happened here you’re right I don’t think he was it was intended for him to come out of the starting lineup for more than one day because again there was another factor involved which I’m telling you

Unless I’ve been fed a bunch of BS about this as have the other sort of experienced reporters around the team the thing that led to this is not in the grand scheme of things a big deal trust me I there things I’ve heard about seen uh rumored found out about 10 years

Later that happened around the Miami Heat over the past 25 to 30 years nobody keeps things in house better than they do eventually though guys start to talk when they’re not with the team anymore okay and they’re with other teams with and I found about numerous things that

Were a thousand times worse than what got Kyle in my from what I was told what got Kyle bench last night yeah so I just I think they should have just said it I honest every team has the same rules too on this you know what I mean on this

Particular thing yeah I I it’s just weird it’s just and and it just was on the night that you know you don’t want to deal with it but Brady had a with the Haslam stuff going on but Brady had a great Point okay which was going into my

Head before I kind of heard about what the reason you know was which was that if you were going to make a change like this you do it on everybody’s paying attention to 40 going in the rafters right and you just hope you win the game and nobody talks about it afterwards and

Then they didn’t win the game and then Not only was it talked about but then made it was addressed made worse that’s that’s how it looks to me all right do you want to mention better Edge though go to better edge.com use the code 5 RSN or five reasons this is peer-to pure

Gambling so you can play this legally in the State of Florida but the good thing and I know some have started using something else uh the good thing is here you can find the line that you want like it’s actually a Marketplace so you if the heat are plus two but you’re not

Feeling so good about it uh and even in that way you want to be plus five you may not get the same payoff but you can find that line there which is one of the cool things about better EDS so go to better eds.com use the code five reasons

Or five RSN and you’ll get $20 to play all right so let’s do this quickly because I’m going to do a bigger uh breakdown on this with Brady Andor Alex I mean does this in your view tell you to trade him sooner like if you’re on the fence about including a

Draft pick with him to go get an upgrade does this push you over the fence oh my gosh yes we are here folks we have arrived at the place where I think it’s just time to move on I think that it it’s tough because Kyle has not been a

Bad player his entire tenure in Miami so everyone should first understand that part of it and also any of the team’s current struggles are not all Kyle Lowry’s fault I just think that even if he was playing a good brand of basketball and the team was getting

Along great you’d have to think about a$ 29.7 million expiring contract and what it could do for your roster building and I’ve heard this there’s been this kind of like buzz of well they could go into the summer and they could let his contract expire and then they would have the financial

Flexibility with which to spend the mid-level exception on a midlevel like player mind you and maybe keep Caleb Martin or Haywood heith and I just like ask like do we really want to spend on a mid-level point guard and Caleb Martin or Haywood heith instead of spending on an upgrade right now in

Another Jimmy Butler year like are is that really what we want to do are we high right now like what what are we doing there um and so that’s where I just think that we have to be careful with just saying Kick the Can Kick the Can Kick the Can because we’ve arrived

At a spot now where this is a five-year build and Jimmy is not getting any younger I mean we talked about the things that were in the first half of the year that we needed to see more of and one of them is Jimmy Butler will go

Get him more help and so I that’s where I’m at and I think that even if this stuff wasn’t swirling but unfortunately now and it’s almost self-induced swirling that’s taking place um you you would need to look at Kyle’s contract and say what can I do with this

Expiring money and if you take back a player with a longer term salary so be it if you sacrifice a draft pick so be it if you’re gonna be you know fifth in payroll next year instead of eighth so be it I think Jimmy Butler’s proven that

This is he’s good enough to to give this a shot they have not with a trade gone all in on this build Ethan so this is a moment where I feel like uh Kyle Lowry’s contract could be useful for that very reason I’ll say this if you go back and heat

History when there’s someone who doesn’t seem to be conforming to the culture or doesn’t want to or is just over it which feels like is the case here they always remove that issue it doesn’t happen right away always but somehow someway Whiteside waiters James Johnson Brent Barry just

Go go through the there’s a long list uh of these situations and they don’t stick with them that long they just don’t I mean even like I said even Tim I mean look where Tim finished his last couple years that’s a whole Famer that they brought back uh not brought back to play

But it brought back uh you know to as part of sort of the you know celebrated in the organization uh I I I I my lean now is they’re gonna move the contract I I that’s that’s my lean coming out of last night I I just I

Think that that’s because I’ve had these conversations before and I don’t think there’s any reluctance upon uh the front office to do so I don’t the the guy who has been most supportive of Kyle Lowry what I’ve always heard is the head coach and you know I understand what

Eric appreciates about him I do and I understand having a natural point guard in this era and someone you do see you see Kyle again at the very end of this you see Kyle coaching up players on the bench you do see that kind of stuff I I

Not no one’s suggesting he’s a bad teammate in that way and I want to I probably should have said that before the 45th minute no one is but there seems to be an understanding like I talked to Kevin Love last night not about Kyle okay and I just asked

Kevin after the game about coming in the game maybe as an inbounds passer right like has he ever done that cold because we know Caleb did not make the best decision in inbounds passer he’s not usually in that situation and to be honest if Kyle had been on the floor at

That point he probably even though he doesn’t have the height of some others would have been the best choice to be the inbounds passer because he’s done that over the course of his career and he’s done it well so I just asked Kevin because Kevin wasn’t on the floor much

And Kevin didn’t play well last night okay he’s he told me he was trying to get back into Rhythm have you ever done that because I know that SPO did it with Shane a couple times like and bad was in the building last night so I guess this is why I

Stuck stuck in my head he did it with Mike Miller a couple times because Mike was good at that as well and I said you ever done that he said no he says I don’t think I’ve ever done that he says you know what he say he says but the way

I played I didn’t deserve to be on the court and when I posted that quote I didn’t intend it to be a contrast to the other thing that I posted which was Barry’s question to Kyle and Kyle’s response I can tell you that every fan took it that

Way and that is because it it’s become obvious at this point that Kevin who is a hall of Fame level player himself has bought in he’s just 100% bought in and look I covered Kevin in Cleveland and I was not a huge fan of Kevin in Cleveland

Because remember the whole fit in fit out thing from LeBron remember that that was directed to Kevin right but Kevin is in a stage in his career in his life where he seems to understand what where he is okay and what this part of his career is supposed to

Be and I’ll just leave it there all right thanks for our sponsors we’re at our cleanup of Florida wcu.com better Edge use the code 5 RSN and our friends over at you break we’ll fix thank you for listening to the five on the Flor on the five reing sports

Network after all someone needs to listen to my dad

Kyle Lowry didn’t start in Friday’s loss to Atlanta, and he clearly wasn’t thrilled about it. But that’s not the whole story. Ethan Skolnick and Greg Sylvander go back to the Miami Heat’s original interest in Lowry, their signing of him, how they got here, and where all parties go now.

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