Can Amen Thompson & Cam Whitmore Do Even More? | Udoka Gripes! (w/ Rockets Chop Shop’s Cooper Klein)

Can Amen Thompson & Cam Whitmore Do Even More? | Udoka Gripes! (w/ Rockets Chop Shop’s Cooper Klein)

Welcome to Houston sports talk with your host Robert land thanks for checking into the best Houston sports podcast and back with me is one of my favorite Rockets experts Cooper Klein who hosts the NBA draft podcast upside swings and contributes to Rockets chap shop on YouTube good to see you again and Cooper

We’ve got positives and negatives to hit in this one so it’s going to be a roller coaster ride sort of like the season so far yeah uh I’m a big fan of of roller coaster pods we get to hit on you know the things that we’ve enjoyed and uh

What we’d like to see changed feels a little bit nitpicky after how last year went and how this year’s going so far I think have we passed last year’s win total this season if we haven’t then we’re pretty close yeah already um that’s more the point we are destroying

Expectations playing much better feels weird to nitpick but uh there are some things that need to be nitpicked and and we’ll get into that here here in a little bit Yeah I was about to say I think if if they haven’t passed it I know it’s real close I remember them

Talking about that the other day and I’m going to start with just a huge positive you did a ton of homework I know on cam Whitmore and a man Thompson for the draft and my open with amen he’s getting more and more run already looks as good

As Dylan as an on ball Defender we saw the off ball game when we had that game saving block against Utah just an incredible play he’s grabbing nine rebounds per 36 how does he compare from what you’ve seen so far with the Rockets to what you anticipated pre-draft so he

Doesn’t look as explosive athletic but I think a lot of that can be you know sort of attributed to the injury he had and his role I think they’re really keying in on him playing with pace and reading the floor as an NBA player and not just like playing completely out of

Control at all times everything is very set and they’re really working on his Pace you do kind of lose the transition play but that’s kind of been a theme with the team this year is just lack of transition buckets lack of easy offense opportunities but when he’s gotten out

In transition he’s looked really good he’s looked quick his ground coverage is still incredible he is so quick is a stop start athlete uh he can just explode into like the tiniest holes he’s really good at contorting his body that was something he was always really good

At pre-draft and he’s still been really good on both ends at getting up in the air you know contorting for layups at going around a screen fighting around a guy and fitting right through the tiny little gap between the screener and the ball handler so you still see the

Athleticism you just don’t see it in the same sort of poppy explosive way that you see with ozar right now and I think that’s mostly injury but also roll and you know team context defensively he’s been almost better than I thought he would be at overtime Elite like

Obviously you see the makings of an elite offall Defender he’s so athletic he covers so much ground but his point of attack defense was so focused on oh I’m gonna create as much Havoc as possible I’m gonna sell out for every single steal I’m going to bully these

Ball handlers but he’s looked so sound like technically at the point of attack he his footwork is perfect he uses his hands really well he doesn’t foul a ton his hand eye coordination really stands out I think that’s something really for young Defenders that you want to see he

Gets his hands into like the into the Honeypot without fouling without slapping somebody’s arm and he does a lot of the little stuff that doesn’t fully get you know shown on the stat sheet and it’s been really really nice I don’t think I’ve seen him mess up a

Rotation like this the entire season he’s just been so technically sound and compared to like a lot of the concerns of oh is he just like does he gamble too much is he trying you know too hard to create steals all the time those kind of concerns pre-draft he’s really like

Shown out and kind of blown those out of the water offensively he’s been a bit more limited I think that can be attributed to role but also just the handle he looks less confident than I thought he would be coming in but the cutting has been great the shots been

Better than I thought it would be this early he looks really confident and comfortable getting into a shot even if the form isn’t super perfect as long as he looks comfortable and he’s confident taking them I think that’s really what matters more than anything he’s willing

To work on edit he’s willing to take them in game and he’s really shown out I’ve been really really impressed with him and I I really just want him to get more run uh with this team yeah and did you really feel like he could be an

Elite point guard with the handle and with the limit that he had in shooting because that’s my concern is I feel like okay he can be elite because of his defense and his passing ability but he’s got to be able to compensate for the ball handling which that can be improved

On I don’t think he’s that far off on the ball handling but the shooting is obviously something that has got to change and I look at somebody like a Ben Simmons which is kind of more closely to who he resembles right now than Russell Westbrook which is another guy that you

Would think okay he’s not the best shot but as bad as Russell shot is it’s still better than am man Thompson is at this point and Russell had that ability that if you were going to play off of him he had the quickness and the aggressiveness

To somehow find his way to the rim and and still you know get around the basket that we haven’t seen from amen so far I think the handle will develop I think that’s the one thing like the shot the numbers suck like the ey test also sucks

At least he’s comfortable but with the handle I think a lot of that is just figuring out what pace he needs to play at and getting into the right kind of sets they haven’t been particularly creative with how he’s been used he hasn’t played much with the only good

Screener on the team in Alper shenon and that’s the easiest way to get him going downhill but as soon as he gets going downhill and he gets a half step of Separation He’s Able the handle doesn’t look like it bothers him the problem is speeding up right like when he’s on the

Perimeter he can’t create it an isolation because he can’t hit the moves and then speed up his body against NBA Defenders because it’s not tight enough in that kind of like change of pace space that’ll just be like a body catch a skills catching up to like your body

Kind of thing that’s like it’s just going to take reps because you can see his body control his touch everything else is is like a part of the drive once he’s gotten going and gotten downhill he can do the hard part he just can’t do you know the the part that comes with

Time and comes with practice so I’m not as worried about the handle obviously it looks bad now but there’s a lot of good to be seen there despite the negatives that we’re seeing already right and you know it’s about looking at the positives at this point and and it’s

There and you know the thing with him that just jumps off the screen is his IQ and that’s something that’s you know you you’re really happy with at this point as a rookie and on the other side Kim’s been incredible offensively 47.5% from the field 40% from three his last two

Games were a 241 night versus Charlotte and a 19-9 vers Brooklyn is D isn’t too bad for a 19-year-old rookie how does he compare to what you saw pre-draft the one thing that’s really like shown out about Cam that I was kind of questionable on was the shot because if

You really dug deep into the numbers the shot was there it’s obvious right this guy can actually shoot the ball he’s really talented he’s really like he’s a good shooter um but you had to like go deep into the Synergy numbers be like oh he’s a 40 plus percent spot up shooter

He’s good at movement he just takes a lot of Threes off the dribble and that kind of ruined his percentage like his raw percentage last last year you know good free throw shooter all this different stuff I just don’t think that because of the injury we realized how

Nuclear of a shooter cam Whitmore actually is and if that was like an obvious thing pre-draft there is no way he falls to 20 I think that’s kind of just like the end of the conversation there uh because even before the year started the whole thing is Cam’s like 65

He kind of plays like a power forward because he can’t really shoot he he doesn’t really pass he’s a weirdo kind of in between Defender so he has a lot of like weird like before the season started like the colle season last year started it was like oh he’s kind of

Weird kind of goofy but he’s super athletic but if if teams realize he’s going to be like a 37 38% shooter off rip and he’s shooting like 40% this year like you said I think that’ll come down a little bit but like if he’s an above League average shooter as a rookie

Barely getting minutes you know fighting for playing time on this team like he would have been pretty easily a top six seven pick undeniably because a lot of the questions about his game and all the other random stuff gets answered by oh but he can shoot the piss out of the

Ball that guys got drafted higher for being worse Shooters than cam is the rest of his game is really a work in progress the defense has been good in ISO he’s athletic he’s strong if he gets driven on he’ll just bounce guys off of his chest sometimes his form’s not great

His off ball defense has been about as Hit or Miss as you can you know find there’s moments kind of like pre-draft where he’ll make this really cool rotation and he’ll fly all the way across the court and like contest a shot he has no business contesting then

There’s other times where he just doesn’t really see anything and he’s like too locked in on the ball to even make a rotation that’ll come with time and you see the flashes you see the ground coverage just the vertical explosion paired with his you know physical strength is such an asset for a

Defender he can be a step or two late defensively and still contest a shot or still get a dig in and still do all this stuff so it’s it’s really just a matter of getting the principles instilled in him and finding a role that really works for him because his athletic profile

Allows him to guard twos guard guard threes guard fours and play those different off ball positions as well he can guard up a lineup I think once his footwork is fixed he can guard you know bigger point guards even he’s not a great screen Navigator because he’s so

Bulky so maybe you don’t want him doing that fulltime but if you can stick him on a 66 point guard or a six4 point guard and survive then you can just the more potential versatility a guy like cam has defensively the better because I don’t think the passing’s ever going to

Be great he just does not look to pass the ball I I think that’s fine because his role offensively is just play finisher cut Drive really hard and shoot the ball whenever you get an open shot just do that for now but if he wants to

Hit his star end outcomes he has to be able to make some more basic reads and just not have the offense bogged down to this is going to be a cam shot the second he touches the ball it works for now and it’s good that it’s getting him

On the court because it’s what this team needs but if we want to see him be Ant 2.0 he’s got to be able to pass the rock a little bit more got to be a little bit more locked in defensively but I have loved what I’ve seen he’s blown my

Expectations out of the water honestly he’s been an elite finisher at the NBA level an elite shooter at the NBA level everything you could hope for in more we haven’t seen him in the pick and roll I I would like to see what he could do

With shenon what did you see from him in the pick and roll beforehand or did you see much of him doing that at Villanova so you didn’t actually get much that was we talked about it in our cam Whitmore podcast that we did villain NOA kind of sucked because they didn’t use cam

Enough like you have this Elite finisher who can power through even the biggest bigs in college basketball and you’re not giving him the ball like nearly every time down the floor because you’d rather watch Brandon Slater cook like the coaches did not like his game there at Villanova he got very scapegoated For

That season going poorly when he didn’t have to come back from injury he didn’t have to do all this stuff he kind of got the short end of the stick there and he was definitely played at Villanova as an off ball Wing he cut a lot he was just

Mostly an off ball player he would be spotted up in the corner he’d be cutting he be cutting from the wing just making athletic plays yeah that’s why I haven’t given up on his passing is because he’s been played totally off ball with the Rockets he’s played off ball with

Villanova he’s so young he he didn’t have a lot of playing time with Villanova as is because of the injury hasn’t had a lot of playing time with the Rockets because he’s been in the G league and because they you know weren’t ready for him to me it’s too young to

He’s too young to just totally dismiss him as a pat like in high school if you’re that good why are you passing who you passing to you know yeah unless especially if you’re not the point guard and he he would get out in transition he scored so many easy buckets both in like

FBA youth play and in high school because he’s the most athletic guy on the floor every single time it doesn’t matter if you have somebody back stopping him from cherry picking the second to Shak do up he’s leaking out automatic bucket in transition why would

You want him to pass the ball I would like to see more scheme stuff like we kind of saw in the g-league where he’s making more connective type passes consistently making more reads we just haven’t seen it we haven’t seen anything really other than like one or two cool

Flashy passes that he’s thrown I would like to see more I’d like to see them do more with him but I’ve still the rest of it has been so good I don’t really care that much about how the passing spin I’m just very optimistic for his play in

General yeah those two guys just make me happy watching them out on the court and seeing their progress from the game to game now camon men’s emergence that’s the good and the fun the bad is the rockets in general no longer look like a playin team since December the 17th

They’re eight and 15 the defensive ident identity we saw early in the season that’s gone I’m also increasingly frustrated with udoka I want to go through my udoka gripes but let’s do it this way because I’m sure you have your own and I’m going to give you a gripe

And then or I’m going to have a gripe then you go we can ping pong back and for forth also feel free to comment on mine my gripe number one this team doesn’t understand the hot hand if shanon has it going they get it but there are too many times I see Jabari

Hit a couple in a row Jaylen cam all of whom can score in bunches in the next possession it’ll be a post up for Dylan or Jeff Green or van vet at a pick and roll and he pops a three Cooper I can’t blame this on the players though when

You’re halfway through the season at some point the coach has got to say guys if a guy’s hot I need you to go to him if not I’m going to yank you from the game game you know I don’t know give me a gripe what do you got my my biggest

Gripe since day one I’ve been feeling this way since like even preseason is udoka just has no creativity offensively or defensively he’s very strict within his schemes Jaylen plays a very specific defensive role where he’s super low activity he’s not involved at the point of attack but then you have your two

Best off ball disruptors and rotators in Dylan Brooks and and tar Eon constantly at the point of attack it reminds me of like the spec the most jarring specific instance was when they stuck tar on Donovan Mitchell down the stretch of that Cavs game that we it was the second

Night of back toback and we lost and he played good defense on him but is he most valuable there are playing off ball where he can impact every single play every single possession also like limiting a guy like amen who’s another great offall defender to just playing

Point of attack defense they try to put didn’t he try to put like uh Dylan Brooks on tyres Maxi or or was it Trey young or somebody like that just a tiny guard and it’s like why what are we doing with our Elite Wing Defender who

Is like has some of the best hands in the league he’s fine at the point of attack but that’s not what you should be doing especially when you have a guy like Jaylen who’s only defensive strength is he’s pretty good at the point of attack he does nothing else

Defensively and we have him as the low man we have him as the wing why don’t we just have guys doing what they do well defensively yeah uh and yeah that’s my my biggest bre with with Oka all right my next one why is accountability a

Thing in regards to the young guys but not the Vets van vet Took a ton of dumb shots in the lost the other night Jan and Dylan commit a ton of needless dumb fouls you know it’s not that I hate these guys but udoka needs to get in

Their face and get pissed too I mean Cooper if you don’t have equal accountability for the Vets the kids lose respect I really agree with that one it remind like when udoka got all up in amen’s face for like some tiny little mistake and it’s like Dylan Brooks does

This six times a game what are we what are we losing our minds at over here and I I understand where he’s coming from another gripe I well it’s kind of the inverse of that one no no defensive creativity it’s just like such strict limiting roles offensively from udoka

Fred Van vet cannot be an off ball shooter every single time he touches the ball he’s running a pick and roll from 30 feet and that is the only thing that’s happening he is making a nice dump off to shenon or he’s shooting the ball like from Deep three-point range

There is no diversity of offense there is no creativity there everybody has a specific clearly defined role and that is all that they do and it leads to a lot of offensive stagnation and we’re not getting a lot of data points on what some of these younger guys can really do

And I I think part of that is to really establish like this is a system and this is we’re we’re setting up stability but I think you lose a lot of Effectiveness by being too set and too you know just solid in the way that you’re doing things and not allowing more creativity

And uh just trying and experimenting more especially with the really diverse offensive weapons that are on this team all right my next one how about when you win a challenge more than once a month uh how about just win a challenge twice a month I mean even when he wins them

They’re not necessarily smart challenges I just it drives you up the wall like how hard is this yeah the oh bugs me to no end my last one has got to be just the minutes how we divide up the minutes every night especially with like amen

And cam now who have played every every single minute that amen and cam play is a good minute it doesn’t matter like cam could be three for 10 with eight points every single minute he plays is a high energy good minute that is better spent than like giving it to Reggie Bullock or

Anything else or like why are we playing amen 15 minutes in like a game where Fred Van vet is playing 40 Fred does not need this all this wear and tear and you have one of the greatest athletes on the entire planet riding the pine not

Helping his minutes load at all I bugs me you just said what I was about to say quit playing van v like it’s the playoffs every game udoka wants the playoffs but run van vet into the ground you’re not going to the playoffs as van vet’s in a wheelchair in in March and

April he’s a small unathletic player with an injury history there’s a reason his shots slumping and his defense looks worse as the season’s gone along especially the last couple of weeks and I noticed everybody who had their van vet narratives after he was signed in free agencies piling on now they’ve all

Forgotten he was winning them games earlier in the year he helped turn shenon into an All-Star Contender shenon Raves about him I say get off Fred’s back the guy that also helped you beat the Nuggets three times and blame for his poor play I just think back to the

Pelicans game and I think it was the inseason tournament game where he down the stretch just took over and ended that game he just hasn’t done that and it’s he just looks tired obviously I don’t want Fred getting into the lane all the time because he’s one of the

Worst finishers in the NBA but he’s not as aggressive as he was to start the season and it’s really obvious that he just kind of looks worn out when you have a guy like amen who can handle a heavy load like that why are you not making this easier on everybody yeah it

Goes back to also one of my gripes that I’ve mentioned this I don’t know how many times in the last few weeks but playing a vet that’s bad is not and doing bad things is not well he’s a vet and whatever if if the Vet’s doing not

Good stuff out on the floor if he’s not doing helpful things you can say all you want to well Tate know where knows where to be on the court landel knows where to be on the court they can know where to be but if they’re not defending anybody

If they’re not making baskets if they can’t make baskets which neither guy seems to be able to make a basket unless it’s a wide open layup take sometimes contested shots around the rim but mostly that’s why you’re getting from those two guys and it’s not just that I

Don’t like the guys as you know future players it’s they’re not helping you right now and they’re not doing like you can get mad at a young guy for making a mistake but the fact is that amen and cam when they make mistakes they’re gonna make one or two mistakes tar e

Makes mistakes but guess what if you’re making more plays then you’re making mistakes I still think that’s a good thing as opposed to having these vets out there that can’t make plays Reggie bulck outside of hitting a wide open shot what does he do what does he do

What is there a you know an incredible offensive play that Reggie Bullock’s doing is there a steal is there a block shot you get that stuff from Cam and amen and Jabari and tari you don’t get it from those two guys yeah I think that’s a really good point is like I

Think as fans and and as coaches people can get stuck on oh he made all these mistakes he did all this stuff but if you add more than you take away every single time you step on the floor like the four guys you mentioned have over

The last few months and when they played in in in T’s case that is far more valuable than a guy who is basically just a placeholder right like is like a below average rotation player who won’t mess up but also doesn’t give you any juice and this team desperately needs

Juice more than anything we don’t need placeholders yeah exactly and it’s just the whole deal is I think he’s gotten caught up in I’m gonna get these guys to the playoffs and that means playing veteran guys but at some point you got to go the veteran guys can’t get you to

The playoffs the young guys have a better chance of actually doing it if you develop getting them getting them going on the right track and I know it doesn’t happen very often but they’ve got some really talented young guys as talented as any in the league and but um

Little quick message to our YouTube viewers what are your udoka GES what what don’t you like jump in the comments also if you love Rockets history just go to my Rockets history YouTube playlist where you’ll find the best of my chats with Calvin Murphy muci Norris Robert

Reed Chucky Brown Rodney McCrae just a sample here from the playlist here’s a longtime rocket Studio host and sideline reporter Lisa MOSI talked to her a few years ago about her time with the rockets and I asked her for her favorite Charles Barkley memory you got to listen

To this story the Charming thing about Charles is that I was pregnant with Dylan who was now 18 my first baby Dylan was born in December Christmas Eve December 24th 1999 and that year Charles was playing for the playing for the rockets and A girlfriend of mine had a

Shower it was a couple shower so I told a couple of the I told I told you knowe but KN knowing he’d never come and I told Clyde to he his wife were welcome to come I mean just friends and I told Charles I said hey we’re having the show

Who shows up Charles Barkley he’s in a tuxedo cuz he’d been in another event but he came and he was hilarious and charming and there were martinis flowing I’m I’m not sure that he drank anything he may have had it before well there was always stories with him in Houston where

He’d walk into a bar and buy drinks for everybody yeah and do you know he has the other thing he came he was Charming mixed with everybody there was an easy crowd good friends um it it was incredible I’ll show you a picture of that later but of course then I had

Dylan on December and my whole family was in town my two sisters Linda who he knew and my sister Tammy um their husbands and he had a New Year’s party and he was playing for the rockets and so he invited all the Rockets people and the staff and I couldn’t go obviously I

Just had Dylan and but he said tell your sisters to come and Linda and Tammy and their husbands walked in and he they said he could not have been more Charming he walked out with bottles of Crystal champagne put it on the counter I mean he was just incredibly generous

Um and another time after you know the year after that when I wasn’t pregnant again um Don and I went to the New Year’s party and he was he’s just wonderful he does he pays for everything it’s a party that no one has to pay a

Dime for and he the champagne is rolling there’s food there’s dancing he was just he’s very very generous oh man that was just great stuff and I mean you just wish you were here in that Barkley era that you know maybe Barkley walks into a bar that you’re at or something like

That in Houston Cooper I mean that would have been fun man my dream is to R run into a a Rockets player at a bar and have them pay for my drink the closest I’ve gotten is ex rocket Isaiah hartenstein coming into the restaurant I

Work at over the summer and I just told him how much I loved this game how much we miss him here and he was like ah dude I love Houston so it was uh that’s the closest thing I got to that but it’s it’s no Charles Barkley yeah the best

Thing that happened to me is I ran into Robert Ory this was about 20 years ago or close to 20 years ago and got to thank him actually thank him for all those great memories in the in the two championships and you know same the same

Club that I was at where I saw aie I also ran into vasil spis when he was on the rockets at the time and I got I got to take a picture with him I had I should have pulled that up I’ve got that somewhere I think but had a selfie with

Spinas but yeah that that sort of stuff is real fun and it’s it’s what’s so cool Cooper about being in Houston is that it can feel even though it’s a big city can feel like a small town at times yeah incredible love it here so anyways you

Guys uh you listeners you can also find our our Rockets YouTube playlist with separate conversations with Rudy T biographer and legendary Rockets beat writer Robert falcoff about the 86 finals team clutch City Bill Fitch and Moses Malone FAL just a super good guy and I’ve done a several conversations

Because he was involved covering all of those guys all that time so it was a really fun time with rockets and Cooper um I I just got to you know finish up by asking you what’s the latest on upside swings what should people look for and have you figured out who should be

Number one in the draft has anybody uh well everybody likes to say they have I’m a big Ron Holland guy I know people are kind of low on him because his efficiency numbers look bad and he turns the ball over a lot he’s absurdly young and he has possibly the greatest motor

Of anybody I’ve ever scouted his hustle does not stop he is like on that tar een level of motor and has the athleticism to back it up he’s ridiculous him and him and Al are my one and two I go back and forth by the day I I’ll leave a

Little bit of of uh of wisdom here not maybe not wisdom it’s a bad word but just a little some I’ve been thinking about these classes that get called really bad classes all the time end up being better than you’d think because it has so much depth there are probably

Probably probably 20 to 25 guys who I would say could be a lottery level Talent there were probably like 15 of those last year there’s just a lot of better players that will declare for this draft with hopes of being a first round pick whereas everyone scared off

Last year because it’s you know it’s it’s a worse or it’s a better draft so they’re more scared but the top the lack of top end Talent means that the middle tier ends up being way stronger so it’s a good year for us to have second round picks is that’s basically what I’m

Saying there so uh hopefully we’ll use those or at least one of them get some nice cheap talent but uh if you’re looking for my stuff I’ve been kind of LAX uh upside swings still on break probably coming back here in a month or so just check out htx chop shop Frank

And everybody over there always killing it uh lots of Rocket stuff I’ve been tweeting about the Rockets uh been doing a lot of work with certain prospects and next up basketball Consulting if you want to watch some Mike Shera joms Mongolian Mike the first ever Mongolian

D1 athlete I consult for him and post his stuff and there’s a lot of other cool players that I I do stuff like that for make highlight reels all that kind of stuff so uh yeah just follow all that and uh hopefully we’ll get to talk again

Soon this was awesome yeah the 2013 draft I remember there wasn’t much at the top of that it’s a bad draft mostly but in the middle rounds it was I think it was he was number 15 or 14 that was Giannis so you just never know and I I

Remember the videos that came out about Giannis and even though it was 2013 I wasn’t that long ago it seemed like there were these videos that you’re like man that looks like it could be something but I don’t know who’s he playing against like he was this mystery

Guy and and you know if there’s a guy like that that out there maybe you know that’s the guy we’re going to be talking about in this draft because you know this is one of those weird weird ones but man it’s always good to catch up with you brother thanks a

Lot you listening to Houston Sports Talk hey don’t forget to support us by subscribing and commenting on YouTube you can always listen to us on Spotify apple or your favorite podcast app tell your friends about us and share our Show links on social media spread the word everybody thanks for [Applause] [Applause] listening

Host Robert Land asks Cooper Klein (with Rockets Chop Shop & the Upside Swings podcast) to compare Amen Thompson & Cam Whitmore pre-draft to what we’ve seen so far + we share some of our biggest Ime Udoka gripes & listen to Lisa Malosky’s crazy Charles Barkley story from his H-Town days.
(1:08) How does Amen Thompson look compared to pre-draft?
(6:17) How does Cam Whitmore compare to pre-draft?
(10:09) How’s Whitmore being used?
(12:30) Ime Udoka gripes
(14:20) Udoka’s lack of accountability for vets
(14:57) Lack of Creativity
(16:15) Use of player minutes
(18:03) Playing bad vets over young guys
(20:20) Former Rockets Studio Host Lisa Malosky on Charles Barkley’s days in Houston

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