ESPN’s Zach Lowe on JB’s All-Star results “He’s a tad overrated”
Scroll about halfway down for the section on Brown and Dwhite. Kind of a strange take from lowe, where he calls JB overrated but in the same breath says that his defense is underrated..
Ugh I like Zach Lowe but this and the one by The Athletic show that they don’t watch Celtic games
TrickiestToast
He’s playing both sides so he comes out on top
goldfish_11
The best part of this article is where he briefly mentions but mostly glosses over Julius Randle’s deficiencies and then spends half his Jaylen Brown segment talking shit.
ArrrArrr0611
Bro JB would average near 30 if he is the first option on a bad/mid team
Apprehensive_Let_828
Zach must’ve seen how many people on this subreddit wanted to trade him last off-season instead of giving him a new contract and based his JB analysis on that.
JoJonesy
i do like how he has DWhite in as an injury replacement. i don’t think he’ll make it though, injury reserved are picked by the commissioner and I doubt Adam Silver will pick him over Trae
lyonhawk
I think both of the Jays have shown a ton of maturity and growth as players this year, but especially Jaylen. Their counting stats are down, but they are both doing what the team needs to win now and also be ready for the postseason. I think Jaylen has really accepted that he doesn’t have to do everything Jayson does and he’s flourishing in that role. He’s become elite in the 2-man game with KP and is rebounding and defending better than he ever has. It’s a shame he and Tatum are being downplayed a bit because they’re contributing to winning instead of filling up the stat sheet.
holographoc
Kind of starting to enjoy how the Cs are being treated like the favorite but also get way more shit than other contenders and are simultaneously kind of becoming underdogs in a way.
Like people will say “the Celtics are the clear favorites” and then spend 5 minutes picking them apart, and giving basically no praise.
Not a bad place to be for a hungry team.
Acceptable-Silver-83
The funniest part of nba talk is that Zach Lowe has somehow convinced everyone that he’s knowledgeable in the sport when he’s very clearly not
CPTKAK321
Am I the only one who questions why some of these people have been given merit to their opinions?
I’m not bothered by his opinion, but why do we give certain people so much merit? He’s a guy who watches a lot of basketball, but has never played at a competitive level that I know of. What makes him so different than someone who is passionate about the game?
Just thinking out loud.
TheOneTrueBuckeye
Behind paywall, what does he say?
0franksandbeans0
Fuck Zach and his comb over
ImDKingSama
Full Brown segment for more context:
>OK, time for the Jaylen Brown conversation. He’s a tad overrated. He’s averaging 22.6 points, down from 26.6 last season. Advanced numbers frown upon him, likely due to his unreliable decision-making; he’s averaging 3.7 assists and 2.4 turnovers. Those advanced numbers paint him as a mediocre and sometimes inattentive defender. > >There are some smart executives and coaches who aren’t sure if Brown is the second- or even third-best player on the Celtics; a good chunk of them — probably a majority — would nominate White as Boston’s second All-Star. But we need another frontcourt player, and the Celtics need at least one more All-Star after Tatum. Brown is eligible at frontcourt. White is not. > >Some of those Brown skeptics would then elect Porzingis as the second Boston All-Star, and Porzingis’s combination of shooting and rim protection indeed transforms the Celtics into an entirely different team. But Porzingis has missed 14 games and averages only 29.8 minutes. He has maybe the coziest set-up of any All-Star candidate. Boston does not ask him to do much shot creation on offense aside from mashing smaller guys in the post — which he has done with effective cruelty. > >Brown has no such luxury. He is the undisputed No. 2 option, though it’s closer this season. Brown’s salary and history with the team grant him leeway for some entitlement touches that widen that usage gap. > >But there is value in someone soaking up lots of touches at decent efficiency. Brown is shooting 56% on 2s and 35% on 3s. He is a menace in transition — master of a sudden backdoor cut while running the wings. He can bully mismatches and make tough 2s when the shot clock gets low. > >His decision-making has improved; he has great chemistry in the two-man game with Porzingis, and Boston’s coaching staff has crafted sets that catapult Brown into the action with a clear view of the floor — and easier passing reads. The Celtics have scored 1.307 points per possession on trips featuring a Brown pick-and-roll, No. 2 (behind, gulp, Nikola Jokic) among 135 guys who have run at least 200 such plays. Brown is a big reason Boston is finally winning the minutes Tatum rests. > >Brown is more patient in traffic. He doesn’t quite operate one or two steps ahead of defenses, but he’s throwing more passes that anticipate rotations and arrive early.Advanced numbers underrate Brown’s defense. His versatility is a luxury. The Celtics have used him on players ranging from Antetokounmpo to smaller point guards. He makes an impact as a helper, including with some emphatic blocked shots. Brown’s attention to detail can waiver away from the ball, but that’s happening less. > >* It’s fascinating to imagine how White’s numbers might change if you replaced Brown with a league-average wing — how White’s efficiency would hold up if the Celtics needed him to ascend into a true No. 2 and sometimes No. 1 option.
relax_live_longer
How is he rated? I feel like his ‘rating’ is all over the place so hard to say if he is overrated, underrated, or just right.
read-only2
The difference in the way people talk about Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown shows that people are just looking at boxscores.
GiannisDameGOAT
Historically he has been a little overrated but this year I think he’s properly rated. Made considerable improvements in passing/court vision/on ball defense
CarBallAlex
Ok so in terms of All-Stars, there are currently 16 forwards in the East that average 20 PPG
Embiid, Giannis and Tatum are starters
If you eliminate the guys on lottery teams because they’re putting up stats on bad teams, that leaves:
Randle, Banchero, Siakam, Butler, Adebayo, Wagner and Brown
Do the Heat deserve 2 All-Stars as a .500 team? Do the Magic?
If Randle was healthy I get it. I wouldn’t be that mad at Adebayo, Banchero and Randle being the forwards, but Brown feels like he should get the nod because he’s got comparable stats to Siakam but his team is far more successful right now and he’s been a large part of that.
Either way, there’s going to be snubs, but there is precedent for top seeded teams getting multiple All-Stars (Jrue and JJJ last year, Middleton, the 2015 Hawks). Even if he is a little overrated, it’s not like he’s undeserving of All-Star. It’s just there are only 12 spots per conference. This happens every year where people don’t agree.
GhostOfJiriWelsch
Lol y’all can disagree with Lowe’s analysis here (I do too), but don’t act like he isn’t one of the best in the business. Dude loves the game, eats up as many games as he can and never comes with hot takes just for the sake of it.
altilly
Some of y’all are so sensitive lmao. Zach Lowe is one of the best in the business. He is complimentary of the Celtics all the time and is complimentary of Brown here. Sorry that he’s gonna split hairs when comparing him to the other top players of the conference.
BumBumBum000
$10.99 a month just to continue reading and see Zack Lowe be wrong. I’m good.
EricFortman
Has Zach Lowe really fallen off so hard? His evaluation of Jaylen sounds like he just checked his stats this season and never watched any game, then added some super obvious “opinions” like “his two man game with porzingis is very good”.
And I highly fucking doubt that “There are some smart executives and coaches who aren’t sure if Brown is the second- or even third-best player on the Celtics”. If they do, they are not smart at all and should be fired the moment they shared this opinion with anyone.
Mbanicek64
Has he watched JB this year? These criticisms are stale.
693275001
I read what he wrote about JB, and if I’m being honest I don’t disagree with it. He talks about his weaknesses and strengths and I like how he points out how our coaching staff has put him in positions to be effective.
Princessk8--
The JB hate is crazy. We’re not where we are right now without him. This contending Era is built on THE JAYS not just one Jay
Dondon1927
Said nothing wrong. You guys need to realize that not only is JB being judged based off his on court production but also his new contract. He’ll be making top10 player money and he isn’t that. It’s not a slight at him, its just facts
hcmacro
Nate Duncan basically said the same and picked D. White over Jaylen. I don’t think it’s the case that they’re both idiots.
HueyLewisFan1
It’s a solid take tbh. He’s underrated in regards to a lot of the harsh criticism he occasionally receives in this sub. But he’s overrated in regard to being referred to as “one of the Jays.” It’s one Jay, and that’s Tatum – who’s a top 5 player in the nba.
Billybaja
He’s really not.
Alexfromnigeria
all our players are overrated but we have a superteam hmm
Dudeman-Jack
He is way overrated now because of his contract. He is a great player but a terrible value
jmay111
Zach Lowe is a bum and is massively overrated
davidasc22
Bam ahead of Porzingis continues to be madness.
twentysixzeroeight
What happened to the real Zach lowe
HoorayPizzaDay
The thing about this is that it’s wrong
GardinGeir
Yeah I ain’t reading all that happy for you tho or sorry that happened
SXNE2
Duncan and Hollinger don’t like Brown either yet they’d consider Randle, Trey Young, etc. over him lmao. These stat guys don’t even watch games I think.
Alowesio
I feel like this sub won’t be happy until the national media unanimously considers each Celtic the top 18 players in the league. Any mild criticism gets treated like it’s the most ridiculous thing in the world
38 Comments
Zach Lowe continues to be a moron
Ugh I like Zach Lowe but this and the one by The Athletic show that they don’t watch Celtic games
He’s playing both sides so he comes out on top
The best part of this article is where he briefly mentions but mostly glosses over Julius Randle’s deficiencies and then spends half his Jaylen Brown segment talking shit.
Bro JB would average near 30 if he is the first option on a bad/mid team
Zach must’ve seen how many people on this subreddit wanted to trade him last off-season instead of giving him a new contract and based his JB analysis on that.
i do like how he has DWhite in as an injury replacement. i don’t think he’ll make it though, injury reserved are picked by the commissioner and I doubt Adam Silver will pick him over Trae
I think both of the Jays have shown a ton of maturity and growth as players this year, but especially Jaylen. Their counting stats are down, but they are both doing what the team needs to win now and also be ready for the postseason. I think Jaylen has really accepted that he doesn’t have to do everything Jayson does and he’s flourishing in that role. He’s become elite in the 2-man game with KP and is rebounding and defending better than he ever has. It’s a shame he and Tatum are being downplayed a bit because they’re contributing to winning instead of filling up the stat sheet.
Kind of starting to enjoy how the Cs are being treated like the favorite but also get way more shit than other contenders and are simultaneously kind of becoming underdogs in a way.
Like people will say “the Celtics are the clear favorites” and then spend 5 minutes picking them apart, and giving basically no praise.
Not a bad place to be for a hungry team.
The funniest part of nba talk is that Zach Lowe has somehow convinced everyone that he’s knowledgeable in the sport when he’s very clearly not
Am I the only one who questions why some of these people have been given merit to their opinions?
I’m not bothered by his opinion, but why do we give certain people so much merit? He’s a guy who watches a lot of basketball, but has never played at a competitive level that I know of. What makes him so different than someone who is passionate about the game?
Just thinking out loud.
Behind paywall, what does he say?
Fuck Zach and his comb over
Full Brown segment for more context:
>OK, time for the Jaylen Brown conversation. He’s a tad overrated. He’s averaging 22.6 points, down from 26.6 last season. Advanced numbers frown upon him, likely due to his unreliable decision-making; he’s averaging 3.7 assists and 2.4 turnovers. Those advanced numbers paint him as a mediocre and sometimes inattentive defender.
>
>There are some smart executives and coaches who aren’t sure if Brown is the second- or even third-best player on the Celtics; a good chunk of them — probably a majority — would nominate White as Boston’s second All-Star. But we need another frontcourt player, and the Celtics need at least one more All-Star after Tatum. Brown is eligible at frontcourt. White is not.
>
>Some of those Brown skeptics would then elect Porzingis as the second Boston All-Star, and Porzingis’s combination of shooting and rim protection indeed transforms the Celtics into an entirely different team. But Porzingis has missed 14 games and averages only 29.8 minutes. He has maybe the coziest set-up of any All-Star candidate. Boston does not ask him to do much shot creation on offense aside from mashing smaller guys in the post — which he has done with effective cruelty.
>
>Brown has no such luxury. He is the undisputed No. 2 option, though it’s closer this season. Brown’s salary and history with the team grant him leeway for some entitlement touches that widen that usage gap.
>
>But there is value in someone soaking up lots of touches at decent efficiency. Brown is shooting 56% on 2s and 35% on 3s. He is a menace in transition — master of a sudden backdoor cut while running the wings. He can bully mismatches and make tough 2s when the shot clock gets low.
>
>His decision-making has improved; he has great chemistry in the two-man game with Porzingis, and Boston’s coaching staff has crafted sets that catapult Brown into the action with a clear view of the floor — and easier passing reads. The Celtics have scored 1.307 points per possession on trips featuring a Brown pick-and-roll, No. 2 (behind, gulp, Nikola Jokic) among 135 guys who have run at least 200 such plays. Brown is a big reason Boston is finally winning the minutes Tatum rests.
>
>Brown is more patient in traffic. He doesn’t quite operate one or two steps ahead of defenses, but he’s throwing more passes that anticipate rotations and arrive early.Advanced numbers underrate Brown’s defense. His versatility is a luxury. The Celtics have used him on players ranging from Antetokounmpo to smaller point guards. He makes an impact as a helper, including with some emphatic blocked shots. Brown’s attention to detail can waiver away from the ball, but that’s happening less.
>
>* It’s fascinating to imagine how White’s numbers might change if you replaced Brown with a league-average wing — how White’s efficiency would hold up if the Celtics needed him to ascend into a true No. 2 and sometimes No. 1 option.
How is he rated? I feel like his ‘rating’ is all over the place so hard to say if he is overrated, underrated, or just right.
The difference in the way people talk about Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown shows that people are just looking at boxscores.
Historically he has been a little overrated but this year I think he’s properly rated. Made considerable improvements in passing/court vision/on ball defense
Ok so in terms of All-Stars, there are currently 16 forwards in the East that average 20 PPG
Embiid, Giannis and Tatum are starters
If you eliminate the guys on lottery teams because they’re putting up stats on bad teams, that leaves:
Randle, Banchero, Siakam, Butler, Adebayo, Wagner and Brown
Do the Heat deserve 2 All-Stars as a .500 team? Do the Magic?
If Randle was healthy I get it. I wouldn’t be that mad at Adebayo, Banchero and Randle being the forwards, but Brown feels like he should get the nod because he’s got comparable stats to Siakam but his team is far more successful right now and he’s been a large part of that.
Either way, there’s going to be snubs, but there is precedent for top seeded teams getting multiple All-Stars (Jrue and JJJ last year, Middleton, the 2015 Hawks). Even if he is a little overrated, it’s not like he’s undeserving of All-Star. It’s just there are only 12 spots per conference. This happens every year where people don’t agree.
Lol y’all can disagree with Lowe’s analysis here (I do too), but don’t act like he isn’t one of the best in the business. Dude loves the game, eats up as many games as he can and never comes with hot takes just for the sake of it.
Some of y’all are so sensitive lmao. Zach Lowe is one of the best in the business. He is complimentary of the Celtics all the time and is complimentary of Brown here. Sorry that he’s gonna split hairs when comparing him to the other top players of the conference.
$10.99 a month just to continue reading and see Zack Lowe be wrong. I’m good.
Has Zach Lowe really fallen off so hard? His evaluation of Jaylen sounds like he just checked his stats this season and never watched any game, then added some super obvious “opinions” like “his two man game with porzingis is very good”.
And I highly fucking doubt that “There are some smart executives and coaches who aren’t sure if Brown is the second- or even third-best player on the Celtics”. If they do, they are not smart at all and should be fired the moment they shared this opinion with anyone.
Has he watched JB this year? These criticisms are stale.
I read what he wrote about JB, and if I’m being honest I don’t disagree with it. He talks about his weaknesses and strengths and I like how he points out how our coaching staff has put him in positions to be effective.
The JB hate is crazy. We’re not where we are right now without him. This contending Era is built on THE JAYS not just one Jay
Said nothing wrong. You guys need to realize that not only is JB being judged based off his on court production but also his new contract. He’ll be making top10 player money and he isn’t that. It’s not a slight at him, its just facts
Nate Duncan basically said the same and picked D. White over Jaylen. I don’t think it’s the case that they’re both idiots.
It’s a solid take tbh. He’s underrated in regards to a lot of the harsh criticism he occasionally receives in this sub. But he’s overrated in regard to being referred to as “one of the Jays.” It’s one Jay, and that’s Tatum – who’s a top 5 player in the nba.
He’s really not.
all our players are overrated but we have a superteam hmm
He is way overrated now because of his contract. He is a great player but a terrible value
Zach Lowe is a bum and is massively overrated
Bam ahead of Porzingis continues to be madness.
What happened to the real Zach lowe
The thing about this is that it’s wrong
Yeah I ain’t reading all that happy for you tho or sorry that happened
Duncan and Hollinger don’t like Brown either yet they’d consider Randle, Trey Young, etc. over him lmao. These stat guys don’t even watch games I think.
I feel like this sub won’t be happy until the national media unanimously considers each Celtic the top 18 players in the league. Any mild criticism gets treated like it’s the most ridiculous thing in the world