Breaking down Milwaukee Bucks’ trade for Patrick Beverley; what to make of team’s recent struggles.
Hello and welcome to an abbreviated Edition but nonetheless an edition of the point forward podcast my name is JR Radcliff we’re talking Milwaukee Bucks with Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reporter Jim ozari as always the Milwaukee Bucks are down bad they W lost a bunch of games here uh on this very difficult
Road trip injuries new coach Doc Rivers is one in five so I suppose I suppose we could be panicking no one’s no one’s I think quite there yet but uh uh it’s it’s been it’s been a struggle the All-Star Game the All-Star break right around the corner and uh and so they
Also have a new addition to the team that we’re going to be talking about first and foremost the trade deadline has come and gone Patrick Beverly has been acquired traded uh from the Philadelphia 76ers in exchange for Cameron Payne Payne was uh very briefly a Milwaukee Buck he was signed signed
Kind of late in the off season and uh and added into the to the mix seems like doesn’t seem like anybody’s anybody feels like that’s a big loss cuz he he was coming off the bench I don’t know if he was he was necessarily a perfect fit
For what was going on here meanwhile Patrick Beverly brings his defensive intensity that the Bucks have been missing so Jim we’ll start with Patrick Beverly of course he is an agent of chaos he’s been on a lot of teams he’s a talkative guy uh has been on has has has
Made it difficult on on on stars in the past he’s worked with duck Rivers it does seem like a really good fit what H what is your thought here though yeah I mean look it’s uh the Bucks were going to be limited with what they could do um
Not that John horse didn’t try to you know do John horse things um and make a big splash uh but Patrick Beverly J.R just feels a need you know since dvon Carter Wy Matthews left in free agency Drew holiday was traded this team just didn’t have a guard you know who could
Really defend at a high level um Malik Beasley and Damen Lillard campaign when he played have tried um I I don’t think anyone can say otherwise but it’s just that’s not what those guys do um defense is what Patrick Beverly does and as Zach Rivers said you know he kind of was like
Oh you know kind of an instigator you know that that sort of um edgy type Defender as well um you know I think inevitably Jr we going to get PJ tuger comparisons um absolutely which which you know PJ’s been mythologized for you know his role in in the championship run
But I think Patrick actually will have a bigger impact I mean it’s easy to forget PJ only played 12 games I was just going to look up I couldn’t remember how many regular season games that guy played it was like he only played 12 and he didn’t play against Miami and didn’t really
Play against Brooklyn until game three and then we never really saw him again after Brooklyn you know what I mean like but PJ had that personality he had that uh you know yeah that that not it wasn’t sort of like that wasted energy I don’t want to call it that like PJ worked
Really hard defensively but it I I think Patrick is is going to be able to give them more you know regular season games playoff games and and particularly gives doc River some options late in games um you know Beverly is by trade a point guard he’s only
6’2 um you know he’s not as big as Wesley Matthews uh but he could pair with Dame and then you can you know maybe have Jay Crowder next to Giannis if you want so like it kind of gives them a little uh some some defensive um fortification top or front to back you
Know with Brook Lopez at The Rim so yeah um offensively I you know I mean he averaged double digits and points many years ago uh when he was playing a lot of minutes I I really wouldn’t expect a whole lot there um it is to bring that
That that sort of Edge and as well as physical presence defensively bucks gave up a draft pick in that exchange and they once again not that that was a huge loss they they have famously burned all their draft Capital to the ground as they have tried to build championship
Teams over the past few years and I I it’s just sort of occurred to me coming into this trade deadline even that that I mean you could you can hear the clock ticking on the Milwaukee Bucks I feel like I I feel like time is running out I
I think you could even you could even maybe smell a whiff of desperation there’s a mid-season coaching change this season stars are are are they’re struggling to stay healthy I mean Chris Middleton now another injury question which will what we’ll talk about you know Damen Lillard I I think you know
The injury not withstanding hasn’t been everything they maybe thought he could be at this point and and some of that is the new coach and all that but it’s starting to feel a little desperate and maybe maybe that’s a fan point of view maybe that’s not how the team is looking
At it maybe they feel that they are still well situated to continue success but they have no they have no new players coming in here and no money Fair Jr I honestly I do like yeah you’re 30 and 13 when you fire the head coach um and the whole point of that was
Like well we don’t think that guy’s going to get us to where we want to go this year this wasn’t a we don’t think we’re going to get to where we want to go two years from now three years from now like yeah that you mentioned the
Draft pick I that was probably a tax Jr like Daryl Mor’s like all right John well if Patrick Beverly is gonna help you beat us in the first round like you gotta give us more than campaign yeah like so you’re right like they own as of
As of this recording that own one draft pick and the next that they control over the next seven years oh my gosh I didn’t even do the math on that that’s ridiculous and that draft pick is next year’s second round pick via Portland they don’t own they don’t control any of
Their own until they don’t they can’t do any of their first till 2031 um yeah like they so that’s I mean John’s got you know options I guess around draft time and the seems going to look a lot different but that’s for them I mean for now like they made the trade for
Dame like does Dame is Dame GNA want to stay here for the next four years J I don’t know we don’t know so like that’s part of this too where I I wouldn’t put my money on it Jim that he would want to stay for the next four years like that’s
You know um dami wanted out of Portland this the but we all know it’s not this is not where he wanted to be initially um I’ll have something coming up I checked in with him sort of on his like status if you will but um yeah I I think
It’s fair to say like they I mean for you know we’ve heard Packers all in right uh Brewers why can’t they go all in I think I think if if if there was a definition of Allin in in sport Wisconsin Sports CH like John horse like smiling face would be right
There so yeah no I I wouldn’t say it’s so far stretch to say there’s a little bit of um yeah let’s like do whatever we can to try to get back to a finals this year right when you’re kicking the can down the road in the NFL it has to do
With salaries and you know that that that still becomes paperwork like it’s still doable to get through that and you are still going to get a healthy influx of talent from the draft and if you draft well you can still be good even if your salary cap is maxed out when it’s
The NBA you’re sacrificing that draft capital and you’re stuck financially which is which is leads me to the next thing I want to talk about and that’s the trade of Robin Lopez which on the surface is not going to be something people are going to care deeply about
Other than tremendous content to have Robin Lopez sitting side one game after being traded and subsequently waved reading a book throughout the game a game that most Bucks fans wish they were reading a book during as well a lopsided over by the third quarter loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves um great stuff
Robin Lopez tremendous character probably not somebody wanted to use a roster spot on but now now they actually have one less roster spot and I think that all ties into this tax apron and it gets so wonky when you try to explain it or understand it I have struggled with
This gym the the tax apron and what it’s blocking them specifically from doing and and you know the long story short is it is blocking them from using certain roster uh ex exemptions that will better help you deal with the cap that you you no longer have access to so that knocks
Down the possibility that okay they don’t need draft Capital because they’re just going to keep building with with trades and not trades but uh but free agent signings you know once things loosen up at the top of the cap they’ll have money to do that but they’re going
To be some of those options are going to be taken away from them so can you give me a sense me who does not understand anything exactly what it is that deal was meant to do what and what they’re facing with this second tax apron what what they are prevented from doing this
Year next year and going forward yeah so very quickly um people who are amateur apologists were very excited because they thought Robin going out meant they were under the second apron that is not true uh Chris Middleton has bonuses that do count um he may or may not get them
But as of now uh they do need to be counted as if he will he’s well on his way to making at least over two million of those bonuses so uh they’re not under the apron um and they’re likely going to try to get a buyout player so that
That’s totally a moot point for that um really the only restriction right now Jr is is not an apron issue it’s a taxpayer issue they are a repeater tax team so therefore uh any buyou player so if you’re listening listening to this watching this and you want to know who
Can the buck okay 12.4 million is the cut off if that player was making 12.4 or less the Bucks can sign him for a minimum deal uh if he’s 12.4 or greater they cannot sign him so pretty simple um you know yes PJ Tucker if you were to
Take a buy out would be able to be signing because he’s making like 11 million um just Spencer D witty 11 seven just so you know was making this year so Spencer DW but there are yeah there there are going to be players who are waved and bought out that make more that
Won’t so that’s the only restriction now and actually they actually sent the Sacramento Kings cash to take Robin Lopez um this is that’s yeah so they yeah this is the last year that the Bucks will be able to do that um those those are future restrictions on um you
Know if they are second apron team which it looks like they will be uh you know they aggregated J uh Drew holiday Grayson Allen to get Dame they will not be able to do that next year what does that mean when you’re aggregating obviously putting salaries together get what aggregate means but
Can you explain that quickly yeah it’s it’s multiple players so you know the money always has to match to a degree in the NBA you know they they give you a little bit of WG room it’s not quite dollar for dooll that’s why usually you’ll see two players three players for
One um so if you make a future trade the player there’s you can’t do more than one player it’s got to be a player and draft capital or whatever else to make the money work or cash so going forward for Bucks fans who are in love with the
Trade machine if you want to trade Pat conon Uh you will have to do find one player who makes the same amount of money and that’s it good luck one for one no money coming there’s no extra monies that they could play with that you can’t trade Pat and Bobby for
Whoever it’s one for one going forward so yeah this was this was the big swing year for John and now look this is as we say this we could see uh perhaps he decides to break up the core even more trade other players in around draft time
We’ll see uh but as of now that that’s sort of what this means um and the fact they only control one draft pick which is a second rounder over the next eight years uh so yeah this is kind of the team this is it and uh well you know
They’re obviously banking on them getting healthier and then it working under Doc Rivers which we have seen Improvement in this team despite the the two and six record or three and six records since uh Adrian Griffin was fired so if trading Robin Lopez doesn’t help them get under the second apron why
Make that trade obviously you open up a roster spot for a potential buyout but like you could have cut him and open up that spot or does that not work because then the salary still counts the salary still yeah they they would have been on the hook for his entire minimum if they
Him so that’s why you’re sort of again as you give the second rounder to darl Mory as sort of a playoff tax for Pat Bev you’re giving cash to the Kings because they’re the ones now who are sort of acting as your your salary Camp dumper you know they’re the ones that
Are going to absorb Robin Lopez’s 2.9 or whatever million dollars um you know and so the Buc just write a check whereas you know the K do that I mean you could do that if you have salary cap room and and no interest in that spot you know um
Some teams have salary like the O City Thunder and the the San Antonio Spurs um Detroit Pistons had some salary cap flexibility um so they that made them attractive trade partners because they could sort of take up a a contract and then wave it and not really face any any
Issues with that so yeah that it does open up that roster spot um for bu out player that that I’m guessing they will they will Target why just real quickly why was why was Robin Lopez here like we talked about it before it didn’t didn’t seem like a great fit obviously you’ve
Got the you know brother brotherly thing you know they they’ve the Bucks have been willing to give his spots at thanasis for Giannis I mean Robin is a seemingly awesome dude we saw Robin start some games with Brooke out this week while while he had you know for personal reasons
And why was he here I don’t understand why they signed Robin Lopez in the first place Jim um I I mean I’m not I I that’s a John horse question I guess uh yeah well W you know I I don’t know I mean they liked him he
Was you know on the bubble team um which obviously was very successful um I think since Brook Lopez’s back surgery I mean this goes back to the suraka deal you know when when Lopez when they didn’t know right if Lopez would come back at all um
I think they’ve wanted a fourth big man as that sort of insurance policy and you know um obviously Yannis has been healthy excuse me Brook Lopez has been healthy um now they’re at a point where okay three big men is what we’re going to rock with I don’t know I mean maybe
The four maybe the bile player is GNA be a fourth big but that’s to me Jr that’s why it’s a it’s a player who is really really insurance for insurance and really 14 15th men or in the buck case 13 14 15 are are players who just don’t
Play I mean that’s most rosters for absolutely um and in fact in trade deadline day you learn about these players that oh yeah I remember them from college oh they’re in the NBA interesting they’ve been in the NBA for years as it turns out you know you see
You learn a lot on trade deadline day when when you know the Dust picks up and all these names are are changing changing teams so what we saw from the trade deadline the New York Nicks are getting a lot of credit for making their team quite a bit better and and they are
A team right now tied with the Bucks in the standings in the Eastern conference Cleveland has filtered ahead of the Bucks temporarily the distance between the number one seed Celtics and Bucks is growing pretty big at this point uh I I I know they don’t care where they fall
When it comes to the postseason I don’t even know if they care that they get a top four spot this has been a tough stretch of the schedule like we said and and the injuries are what they are so like I don’t think losing five out of
Six on the surface is even really that a cause for alarm but things are things are slipping and and you wonder I I wonder you know like where the where the alarm Bell should be is this code code yellow Code Orange code red like the the
Bucks have tried a lot of stuff right and it has not started to gel guys have not stayed healthy and and we are getting to the point where you know we remember this from last year where they just didn’t have their group of guys in time to be ready for the postseason and
I’m wondering if we’re going to be in that space too Chris Middleton’s injury is the latest wild card there so what what what do you tell people when they come to you panicking like the Bucks the Bucks are bad Jim I’m so worried what what do you tell those people like me um
I mean they’re not bad well no of course not top four the East tum yeah they’re going to Tumble to the four seed here I mean the Knicks are on a on a heater uh they are a better team than they were you know when the Bucks beat them a
Couple times um in the in’s the tournament and late December but look Philadelphia Joel embiid’s out Philly’s in a tail spin they’ve lost seven of eight they clearly have decided that you know Joel is probably done and I think they started shedding players um so you
Know but yeah the Bucks are 33 and 19 uh tie if you will with the Knicks but yeah they’re they’re gonna they’re already three games behind the the Cavs for the two seed right now uh seven behind the Celtics uh yeah I think by the All-Star
Break J.R it’s a good chance they’ll be the four seed um but I I don’t think they’re really concerned about that I think what they are Focus on is the fact that they are now up to 20th in the league in defensive rating which is uh points allow for possessions it’s
Generally uh widely accepted as a better gauge of Defense than sort of points per game allowed and 20th is not great this team was usually one or two or three under Mike bu Holzer but they were as low as 2627 with with Adrien Griffin so um they’ve actually had a rating that has
Been dead even a dead middle of the league since Doc Rivers took over 115 uh points per 100 possessions is that great no but Jrs we talked about all at the beginning of the year if this defense could get to top half their offense is going to be good
Enough and that’s what they’ve done short sample size you know six games um but they’ve been 15th and okay the the the Timberwolves game not withstanding I think that that a rough there there was a lot going on there in terms of why they look the way
They looked yeah a lot of it being Minnesota’s the best team in the west um stars they they had no business having a chance to beat the Phoenix Suns at the end of that road trip Jr and it was very vintage Mike Boon hoser bucks and that they were making life extremely
Difficult for Kevin Durant Bradley Beal and Devin Booker and it and still had a chance to win that game on the road against Superstars like that and again when their trip started in Denver doc River’s first game very tough place to play this teams defense that we had seen all year you’re
Like there’s no way this is going to be a 20 point blowout every chance to win that game because they were getting stops and Jr I up until this last week if would have say Jim can the Bucks string together three stops to win a
Game and I would have said no no and yeah like they can do that now like they’ve done it in the last week and so I think so that’s changing um honestly JR this is this might irritate some fans but it’s I think a true thing um they’re
Actually trying hard on defense for All 48 minutes and that that’s taking a little bit out of them in terms of their wind and their H like their late game legs and I know fans might say oh my God why don’t you try hard well I don’t I
Mean that was the whole reason Adrian Griffin was fired you know that story I wrote you know as to why and then why you hire doc like they weren’t really believing in Griff so they were just sort of you know relaxing a little bit on defense Bucks fans listening to this
Know exactly what I’m talking about and then they would go and win the game on offense so um that’s changing um and now let alone the health right like Chris here’s some good news for Bucks fans um talked to Chris yesterday he is uh not in the walking boot he was walking
Without a limp um the walking boot was purely precautionary in Phoenix that was just the equipment they had on hand so they just put him in it to make sure hey precaution super safe but he was I mean he had no like autal on that ankle uh
Walking out of fiser which is really good news for him and the bucks um yeah Lillard yes threw a dunk down on Walker Kessler in Utah limping pretty badly uh probably a good idea to make sure that that guy’s healthy as well so I think now jarur the injury bug has come around
They’ve been healthy for like 40 games 38 games um and now it’s their turn so I think the combination of all of that plus a hot Nicks and Cavs team you’re going to see them fall Phillies on their way out um really it’s just going to be
A matter of you know getting themselves right and then seeing if they can then catch the Knicks or the the the Cavs for that third seed I don’t think you want to be a four um because that’s only one home home playoff series I mean they’ve done that right was that the
Championship your Jr yeah there were three but it’s the same principle three or four you you only are I think you want to you want to be a little further up you don’t want to run through the entire Gauntlet right you know as a middle sea but that’s that’s for post
That’s for future bucks problems yeah yeah I uh it’s very difficult to to explain to someone on the outside why 30 and 13 wasn’t good enough and why losing five of six is not really actually caused for alarm you’re seeing what you’re talking about is true you’re
Seeing signs and it’s a big if but if everybody is healthy you presume that if the defense like you said is middle of the ground they have this explosive offense when everybody’s healthy we’ve seen how good Chris Middleton has been when healthy this year Damen Lillard is
Still like maybe not 100% but you see the flashes of who he is and then you know if he gets to that point I I wouldn’t want to face them in a in a second or first or second round playoff series at all and I would I would
Absolutely still pick the Bucs to beat the Cavaliers or the Knicks I don’t know about Boston I feel like the gulf has grown pretty wide Boston has really asserted themselves as kind of the team to beat and uh I don’t know Jim I I I don’t know if I see Patrick Beverly or
Any changes or improvements forthcoming being enough to overcome that but I guess in seven game series it doesn’t really matter who’s better it matters who wins four games so yeah I mean we’ll see and and I think broadly speaking Jr like the of the top teams Cleveland and
New York are are bigger issues for the bucks than the C that’s yeah um I love it it’s good hot take yeah I think the way yeah yeah I think the way that that the Celtics play in the matchups um and actually it’s more the way the Cavs and
The Knicks play yeah that that give them that give the Bucks problem look the Cavs have given the Bucks problems for two years now absolutely for more than that well maybe just but yeah and so so is Indiana so there’s certain teams that that just doesn’t fit right with the
Bucs in terms of what they like to do but again we haven’t seen the Doc Rivers Bucks play those teams either so you know that’s the other thing we’ll have to see you know come springtime yeah I think if if there’s a big concern it’s you’re seeing yanisa DMO Play at just an
Unbelievable level just Elite bringing it every night dominating and they’re still losing games and they’re still losing a few of them kind of handily so I think that’s probably concerning even though everything we just discussed is all baked into that we are going to see Giannis probably between now and the
Next podcast at the All-Star Game he’s he’s the top vote getter this year for the Eastern Conference he and Damen Lillard will be starting Damen Lillard and Malik Beasley will be in the Three-Point Contest Doc Rivers Against All Odds is he gonna be one in seven this season or one and eight or
Two and eight two and seven coaching the allar team that’s wild but he’s going to be there um there’s Tristan Jass who’s a a content creator on YouTube who’s from kosha he’ll be in the celebrity allstar game we got Wisconsin connections all over the place are is there one thing
You’re you’re going to watch you’re really looking forward to Malik Beasley has been cold lately but I still have a feeling about him in that three-point competition but what what is what’s coming up from all-star weekend that you’re that you are most fascinated to watch yeah I mean I like the going back
To the old school East West format me too man um you know they’re still trying to tweak that um I think the fact that Lillard’s a defending three-point champ Beasley really wants to be there really really wanted to be there and the the fact that no look I I I don’t know
If the NBA should be messing around with glass courts uh but they are gonna have a glass court with like videos playing while these guys are shooting threes or whatever um at Lucas Oil Stadium I’ve only been in there for football games so I am curious to watch that as well as um
You know that the dunk competition I know people get you know they feel a certain way about it at this point but you know being there live Jr like it’s they’re still incredible Feats of athleticism uh so I I do like the skills day I guess better than the All-Star game itself because
That’s just um like that’s not even pickup like pickup games are more competitive than that so yeah you know uh and Yannis and Dame are on the same team so you’re not gonna have that scenario like in Cleveland where Giannis had the chase down block of Chris Middleton you know know because Giannis
Always plays hard but um yeah obviously yeah a lot ofs sconsin ties theres halberton I would imagine is sort of the odds on favorite to win MVP in his own building I’m guessing he will try for that and his teammates you know might try to help him get that uh so yeah
Definitely um Brandon psky in the rising stars oh forgot about him Williams in the rising stars let’s go Wisconsin yeah so I I think just uh you know Wisconsin basketball as we’ve known J.R for several years now it’s pumped out a ton of NBA players um and again you know
Allar weekend’s a good way to uh to Showcase that Beyond even just the Milwaukee Bucks yeah especially with halberton I I cannot imagine there has been a more Wisconsin NBA All-Star Game you know where the Bucks are that represented the state of Wisconsin is that represented uh that’s just a very
Unusual thing what a time for Indianapolis they’ve got the All-Star Game they’ll have the combine later that month I think we’ll both be inside Lucas Oil Stadium at some point in February because I think I’ll be helping with the combine they’ve got they’re hosting a a first round NCAA tournaments this
Tournament games this year March I think that’s a that’s at gamebridge but they definitely uh yeah they’re what a Time Indianapolis Indiana here’s looking at you uh Jim I think that’s all we’ve got here we’re again going to keep it a little bit short this time around any
Other thoughts that you have about this Milwaukee Bucks team um knowing that we probably won’t talk here for a couple weeks I think the and again this is it’s sort of put a pin in this Jr because the the defense was the focus that had to be
Get turned the right way as quickly as possible that is happened um sort of ancillary to that is Doc wanting to get the Dame Yannis pairing working more smoothly on offense and it’s kind of crazy to think one of the highest scoring offenses in the league history by far in franchise
History um it looked clunky at times and they weren’t really smoothing it out and and Dame this this will be coming up at jsonline.com probably over the break it’s sort of like an advance on the the second half Jr is um you know what Doc
Is trying to do to get Dame a little more comfortable offensively which is again kind of crazy to say at 25 you know seven uh 25.7 assists All-Star starter um everything like numbers wise looks okay but as you alluded to in this podcast and before um Dame hasn’t looked
Like the guy everyone thought he would be and he knows that and so I think dog river is trying to address it so uh put a pin in that if you’re a bucks fan for uh down the line look for that jsonline.com in you know the next week
Or so uh but that I think is going to be not that the defense is fixed Jr but I feel like that’s going in a certain way so what’s next I think that’s the next part for this bu if you’re looking for a good Valentine’s Day gift how about a subscription to the
Journal Sentinel jsonline.com deal you can get everything Jim ozari has coming up that he mentioned plus all kinds of coverage of the Bucks the Packers the Badgers the Brewers all of it we’re getting close to Spring training the uh maybe me at the at the NFL combine
You’ll probably have some of that as well and uh lots to including including a story about Robin Lopez reading a book which outperformed all of our game coverage because that’s just how how it is uh but but that’s all available for you jsonline.com thank you for tuning in
To this edition of the point forward podcast for Jim ozari I’m Jr Radcliffe thanks again we’ll talk to you again very soon bye-bye
Bucks reporter Jim Owczarski and host JR Radcliffe discuss the Milwaukee Bucks’ maneuvers at the NBA trade deadline in this edition of the Point Forward Podcast.
How will Patrick Beverley fit? What was the purpose of trading Robin Lopez if it doesn’t put the Bucks in better financial position? How alarming is Milwaukee’s recent play under new coach Doc Rivers, with five losses in six games? What’s Jim watching for at the upcoming NBA all-star game?
Analysis of the Beverely trade: https://bit.ly/patrickbeverley
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