2nd MVP Straw Poll 2024 & Rookie of the Year Race 🙌 | The Hoop Collective

2nd MVP Straw Poll 2024 & Rookie of the Year Race 🙌 | The Hoop Collective

Hello and welcome to the hoop Collective podcast we talk about the NBA which we are doing on Tuesday evening joining us from the barlay center where in a few hours he’s going to watch the Celtics take on the Brooklyn Nets is Tim bonbs I don’t know McMahon I feel like

Times of day the middle of the afternoon where all of us are at the moment so I mean just thought :30 Eastern is that the evening no evening late afternoon I mean that’s what you’re gonna go after me on is that I just joining us from Dallas Texas home with a

Red hot Dallas Mavericks wanted to make sure I zapped one more team uh since that’s all we do uh is B McMahon howdy Partners listen you know I’m feeling good you know why got a shipment today is some free gear shout out to Eastern Washington hey 10 and one in the Big Sky

Defending Champions coach sent me a card a nice note David Riley hash Let it Fly gonna win the Big Sky baby long sleeves toooo I’m feeling good I believe that’s the alma moer of former NBA first round draft pick Rodney Stucky oh okay there

You go well hey I hope I got that right they’ve been in the torney the last couple years they’re heading back this year and they got some good gear all right well you’re I didn’t I never knew your Eastern Washington fandom but now I’m very well aware of it

I I’m easy to uh get on board all right that’s true you are you are easy you’re cheap and easy that’s the way we like you um not cheap and easy guess what time it is McMahon oh it’s one of those special days we get only a few times a

Year it’s straw pole day oh jackass potential here we come baby I thought you gonna call the the VSS poll you’re in you’re involved mcmah it’s it’s always it’s always jackass potential fine but it is one of three times a year the bond temp straw poll

For short the BS poll here we go that name that name has really caught on which I’m uh semi- disappointed about but that’s what a lot of people now call it and uh I’ll I’ll take it I’ll take it I suppose all right Bon Temps um the story

Came out on Tuesday some some of our listeners have seen it um if you want to go down I don’t give all the totals because it gets a little I don’t think we need necessarily go through all the totals we could just say jokic was first chos Alexander was second uh Yannis tupo

Was third Luka dachic was fourth kawh Leonard who didn’t get any votes last time was fifth Jason taton was sixth Jay Brun was seventh and Donovan Mitchell was eth I think that’s the end of the the relevant portion and tell us the first place votes spread

Between Shay and joic Nicole joic had 69 first place votes very nice uh chigos Alexander had 24 of them uh pulling it up quickly right here yo had two Luca donic had three and then Jaylen Brunson and Anthony Edwards each had one farther down the PO all right and you’ve done this for

Six years now I think uh first was in 201617 how many years that is it’s a lot of years I don’t know but the last the last couple years um what is the history of of this poll right before the allstar game meant to the uh what the eventual outcome was the

History of the poll has been that the person in second has won the last two years so Shay is going to win MVP that is that is just we can just go home now go home now it’s all done it’s all sorted out yeah so um having review the results

I think you know it’s not a surprise that joic is um the um favorite the the leader not just the favorite but the leader I looked at um ESPN bets odds before the poll came out he was negative 225 so he had to bet 225 bucks get a 100

Back he was sort of the heavy favorite um I do I think those lot those odds might get a little little shorter even or longer I’m not sure um further in the negative um after the poll um but I think the key that you brought up here

Is that you know in yic is very deserving you know 69% of the uh voters thought so I voted jic first I don’t know if you two guys are gonna say who you voted first um uh do you even you you vote in this bont but you never

Reveal right or you do uh I I do not vote typically oh excuse me huh so I don’t vote in the real thing but I vote in the BS that’s interesting Bon Tims votes in the real thing but not in the BS I usually end up asking I usually end

Up asking a couple extra people just to make sure I have a 100 um because sometimes people forget um so if I ended up at like 99 I would vote but I don’t I ask enough people to right well who would you vote for unofficially uh as of today I would vote

For jic I think I think he is he’s having another great season maybe not quite as good as last year but certainly obviously still a fantastic year and that being said I do think I mean to me that there were two main takeaways from this well three one was that obviously

Joic is in position to become the ninth guy to win three MVPs it’s obviously a pretty huge deal and the only the seventh guy to win three in four years which obviously you’re talking pretty Rari a all the guys who did that are Inner Circle Hall of Fame players um the

Second was that chil Alexander if he doesn’t win I think is prime to be the guy who steps in and wins it I do think in general people sort of get tired of voting for people after they win a couple we’ve seen that over the years I

Think Giannis has sort of Fallen victim to that in recent years to some degree I think his candidacy this year is certainly impacted in part by all the drama that has surrounded the bucks um so despite the fact he’s having a fantastic individual season and let me just say I I wish

That it wasn’t this case because I’ve been an advocate in the past of you vote on this year it’s the MVP of the 232 24 season it is not let’s beat somebody up for what happened last year or two years ago but that’s just not reality reality

Is that your body of work Beyond this season goes into it and Giannis was hurt in the playoffs last year but the Bucs were disappointment and the Bucs have been a disappointment this year even though he has played very very well and you know Jason Tatum is outside the top

Five even though his team has the best record in the East and has been arguably the most impressive team A to Z from the beginning of the Season till now and he has played very well he is not even anywhere near Contender status and I think that part of the reason is because

Of the way he’s played at the end of the playoffs last couple of years I don’t think it’s fair but that’s I think that’s true I would say it’s just that people don’t see him as quite the same level of player as because he hasn’t

Done it at the at the highest level I I just think it’s straight up because like not as productive as the other candidates to me there are four real candidates four legitimate guys who have the chance to win an MVP this year and that is joic SGA Giannis and Luca the

Mavericks GNA need to bump up in the standings to really give Luca a chance they’re those are the four candidates and I would I would add I would add that I do think there’s a world where if the Clippers win the West that I think Kawai

Has a chance and I was going to mention Donan Mitchell was fifth on my ball those are the two guys who were kind of the dark but Donovan but Donovan Mitchell is sort of in the Jason Tatum category where he is having a great Year’s not he’s not seen as an MVP

Caliber player well I don’t know about that that’s not well but but I’m say listen generally the MVP of the league generally is going to be one of the four or five best players in the league Donovan Mitchell is a fantastic player he’s not seen as the top five player

That’s but he’s also again he’s also a guy that I think two or three times has lost in the playoffs with the higher seed okay obviously eventually you know I don’t care if you’re around at all you’re the higher seed you’re going to lose that’s right but um you know his

Playoff record is spotty he’s got some great playoff performances and he’s got some some misses and I think that affects way people look at him and you just say he’s not regarded as one of the top player he’s averaging 29 Points playing point guard yeah but he again I

To be clear he’s a top 10 to 15 player in the league I I’m only pointing out out that if you look generally at the track record of this award it’s going to go to somebody who’s a lock to be on the first team all NBA ballot and is a top

Five player and of course Don Mitchell and Jason Tatum Jaylen Brunson is in the same category he’s having an incredible year the Knicks have had a great year all those guys are fantastic players who will be on all NBA teams who aren’t quite in the same category as jannis

What were you what were you takeaways you said you had two or three I’m sorry interrupted no it’s fine the third one I was going to say was that I I think it’s sort of interesting combination interesting and fascinating that despite the fact that the Celtics have been the

Best team andite despite the fact that all his numbers aren’t other worldly they’re really good Jason Tatum is still not really any sort of threat to win this award like normally a player of his stature with a team that’s going to win 65 games even if he isn’t quite in the

Top five maybe he’s seventh that’s a guy that’s the sort of combination of results where you would see him have a real shot but to me sh is in poll position and if the Thunder with a starting lineup of guys 25 and under and it’s Chay at 25 and everybody else well

Under um if they win the West in the regular season I think that there’s generally going to be a search for somebody besides joic to vote for and it’s not because people don’t want to vote for Nicole yic specifically it’s just that once guys win a couple we’ve

Seen this over and over again it’s very hard to win a third one you win two and then it trades to other people in the years that jokic has won it and even last year he was the clear-cut analytics MVP like if you relied on the Dork

Numbers he was like there there was just no question and I checked our you know my buddy Andy Bailey’s huge nerd index uh sgaa actually has the slightest Edge over Jer Joker on the hni and then it was I forget if it was luuk or Yannis

Whatever order but there it was again it was those four a little Dr drop off to embiid who’s now ineligible for MVP and then a a pretty significant drop off to the other candidates which was it was kaai and uh and Donovan Mitchell but the point is uh that

Sgaa has an analytical case right now as as the most valuable player in the league in addition to the fact that or related to the fact that he’s been such a driving force in the Thunder making another huge leap and possibly being in position to be the number one seed in

The western conference so right so the thing about it is like if if Shay let’s say has a stretch in March where he scores six out of seven games he scores 40 points or you know he hits three gamewinners in a six week stretch or you know basically it’s open there for him

To State his case winning the West would be another way to do that in the number one seed um the question is is you know I don’t know what it would take for Luca I don’t think you know right now they’re in seven they have to they’d have to

Pretty clearly get into the top six I think if they get into the top six with his numbers he would have a chance but I will just add really quick just to go back to what you were saying a lot of people when they sent me their ballot

Said some some variant of it’s the top two guys and then a gap and then Pro most people it was Giannis and yo and Luca and then there was a gap that I think you saw you saw that in the voting and I think that’s really what talking

About maybe Giannis makes a huge push if the Bucks go crazy under dock I think that’s unlikely given their schedule but if they win a ton of games sure if the mass make a push maybe they can get in there but I really think this is

Basically gonna I had I had kawh third on my ballot well if look if they win the West I think it’s open enough where with the way kawai’s playing he plays 70 plus games and they win the West I think he’s gonna have a case he’s

Just got a long way to go and let’s remember like in beid last year beid didn’t I think got a single vote single fifth place vote maybe in the first poll and then he was third in the second one not second third but not in first and then he

Won the third one and won the MVP and had sort of a similar come from behind thing and even though he’s not in third he’s in fifth the Clippers as we know have been unbelievable the past couple months even though they got trucked pretty good at home by the Timberwolves

Last night and if they continue on that path with Kawai play in so many games I do think he’s going to potentially have a chance to make Jackson just asked a question I find depressing but I think is a fair question which is that as of

Now they could pick up more later as of now the Thunder have five National TV games left whereas Luca has nine and I’m sure the nuggets have quite a few um I would like to think that the people who are given MVP votes don’t rely on National Television to study these players

But unfortun yeah I think we’re I think we’re pretty far beyond that at this point I don’t know if we are I don’t I do I think it’s a I think it’s a very I think it’s a very educated voting base and I think everybody takes it very seriously at this point you

Don’t have crazy votes for these things I think that the Showcase games matter to a certain degree not as much as they used to Honestly though it it’s interesting that SGA is number two here because of the these four guys he is by far you know the the I don’t want to say

Smallest name but he’s not nearly considered you know the the level of household name that the other three guys are and he you know obviously Joker’s fresh off a championship but Joker is a highlight machine even though he doesn’t ever leave the floor right same with Luca you know Giannis is you know

Dunking on people’s heads on a nightly basis and SGA is a spectacular player but he doesn’t have the kind of game that translates into viral clips and those kind of things so the fact that he is number two tells you that this is a a group of Voters that are is really

Paying attention and understanding the impact that he’s making on a night to night Bas is for a team that has made another massive leap and has a good chance to win the West what if everything just holds right now let’s just say every let’s just say that um

Every you know that the Nuggets stay and forth jic puts up these numbers Shay is great but they don’t win the West does joic sort of just because of the way I think yic wins I think yic wins by default if us I was staying away

From the word default so I’m glad you used it but like usually it’s hard to win your third MVP by default usually you got to do something special but the way this is setting up he might basically be able to just set the pace well it’s also it’s hard to deny that

He’s the best player in the league when he wanton two MVPs and then want to Finals MVP with one of the most dominant playoff runs that we’ve seen in recent memory and by the way I mean you made a I know you were just making a passing statement bont temps about inner circle

You know and and Hall of Famers basically the Uber Elite yic is a yic is a Hall of Famer now let’s just say it yic is yic is already approaching inter circle Hall of Fame stats and if he wins if he wins this MVP he’s already

Probably one of the 15 best players of all time and that’s with a lot of career to go yeah you go look at that I don’t have the list in front of me you I have the list the list is the list is a list it’s Bill Russell Chamberlain no no stop

The guys with three MVPs and a Finals MVP oh that’s I mean that’s I mean just the list you can just go with the list of three MVPs I know but I’m right because the I mean Finals MVP came along as award a little bit later it’s Wilt

It’s Russell it’s Jordan it’s LeBron It’s Magic it’s Larry Bird it’s Karine it’s Moses Malone that’s the list like that’s that is the the the list of most of the greatest players of all time and Nicole yic has got a real chance to be

On it and like to be again like I’m not saying default is not a word that like dismisses his candidacy it’s not that he he’s like well I guess he’ll have to vote for him I would vote for him now think he’s having a great season I just

Do think if you look at the history of this war award it is a narrative award and the Thunder if they win the West with this super young team there’s going to be a lot of narrative push behind that award just like there’s going to be for Chad holgren in the

Rookie de race which talk about it later or not but like it’s that’s going to be a real factor in that candidacy that’s why to your point if it it all stays bunched up and it’s everybody’s within a game at the end of the year and it’s

Basically default or if Denver wins the West I I think yuch a win going away because coming off of last year’s playoffs the way he’s played this year I mean you know we’ve talked about this on the pod in the past I I think he’s the best player in the league until somebody

Knocks him off that perch and I don’t think we’re going to see that anytime soon manx and and for Giannis you know part of his case uh when he won it was always that hey this is one of the most dominant defensive players in the NBA

Well it’s hard to make that case when the Bucks although they’ve moved up recently they’re ranked 17th in defense as we speak and you know Luca is having the best defensive season of his career by far and you there’s a bunch of numbers out there right now that tell

You oh he’s you know isolation post up like he’s he’s actually statistically been one of the best ISO and postup defenders in the NBA so you can’t it’s to the point where you you you can’t say hey Luc is really not an MVP because he’s terrible defensively that’s not true this year

But when you’re playing for a team that’s ranked 21st in defense it’s hard to make defense a part of your case now if the Mavericks move up defensively then they’ll probably move up in the standings and then we’ll be talking about a guy who’s the League’s uh scoring leader who’s going to be

Sniffing around 35 Point triple double territory uh efficiently but again they’ve got to move up in the standings you cannot be in the playin and be the MVP you can be on the ballot but you can’t be the MVP in a play in and I

Think it’s going to be hard to to for even if he gets to fifth six for as incredible as his numbers are these guys numbers are all off the charts right so like if you’ve got the Thunder and Nuggets fighting for first in the west even if he gets to fifth which is

Probably the highest ever can realistically get you’re still talking about first or second in the west versus fifth I think that’s hard for Luca to overcome almost no matter what he does and like you said the the case again for him from a statistical standpoint is a pretty incredible one you look across

The board at what he’s doing this year all right um much more MVP talk in the coming weeks I am sure uh okay there was a very interesting post trade deadline story that came out on Tuesday we often will in our world have all these post-mortems uh after the deadline

Happens for two or three days where everybody kind of reassesses and tells stories and licks their wounds and um you know uh they’re important conversations because sometimes this stuff reconstitutes in um in July or June this one was very interesting uh it’s from Josh Robbins of the athletic he’s the

Beat writer um for the Washington Wizards and it was about Kyle kosma and before I say this I want to be clear that Kyle kosma is on the record in this story this is not sources said this is what Kyle kosma said and so so is team President Michael Winger they are very

Clearly saying what happened and what they’re saying is that Dallas the Mavericks before they did the two deals for Daniel Gafford and PJ Washington and obviously the Wizards and the Mavericks were talking for some period of time because they later did this deal for Gafford but before those deals happened

They had the framework of a trade in place that would have sent Kyle kozma to the Mavericks um it was not agreed to but it got to the point where it was it was on the verge of happening it isn’t in the story about what the offer was but

Um my understanding is that it was going to be the two first round picks one they ended up sending one pick to Charlotte for PJ Washington one pick to Washington they had to acquire a pick from the Oklahoma City Thunder um to do that and it’s my understanding that the Mavericks

Had acquired the second pick with the intention to trade for kozma now I’m not saying they got that pick from Oklahoma City but it’s my understanding that they went with two first round picks to Washington so Washington who ends up I can tell you that deal with Oklahoma

City it wasn’t reported until just before the deadline that was very quietly agreed to days in advance of the deadline so all right so Dallas goes and gets themselves quietly another second round another first round pick a second first round pick go shopping with those two first round picks one of theirs one

That they got via the Thunder and they offer the two of them for Kyle kosma I would assume that Grant Williams was in that deal based on everything Grant it’s think it’s a safe assumption yeah I don’t know for 100% certain so just to be clear um so anyway Michael Winger

Comes to Kyle kosma and says I got a deal for you to send you to Dallas um and apparently according to Josh robins and when when kozma signed his four-year $90 million contract with the Wizards last summer there was an understanding and this happens from time to time this is

Not rare or it’s not unique I should say it is a little bit rare it’s certainly unusual for a player like Kyle kosma with no offense to Kyle kosma he is not an All-Star player um and the the understanding was that unless it was like a c Miss offer unless it was like

Rudy goar style um they he would give kma a heads up and an option on where he might be traded a lot of teams say that right actually doing it’s another thing and by the way some people would argue and it depends on you know what protections were on the picks and all

That stuff but some people would argue two first round picks for Kyle kosma is a type of offer that you shouldn’t say no to um that depends on your perspective and a lot of factors some of which we don’t know I would be one of those people for the record okay yeah

Now one of those picks is is going to be in the late 20s this year the other is going to be you know let’s just say would have been the same you know top two protector the same protection Char for 2027 for the M it was Dallas lightly

Protected 2027 pick okay now I will just make a side point here that Washington just got out of a no trade clause situation all right Bradley Beal had an actual contractual no trade clause that was Michael Winger’s first order of business to deal with when he

Got there was to get out from underneath that deal and that no trade clause was so problematic they didn’t even get a first round pick for Bradley Beal they got a bunch of second round picks and eventually Jordan P they got Chris Paul they fly for Jordan PA and Landry shamut

And there may have been another player in there I can’t remember but and the reason they got that is because no trade clause is no good so it’s hard enough when you have a real no trade clause this de facto this uh you know honorarium this courtesy no trade clause

Is a heck of a position to have it in but kosma okay that’s one storyline second storyline kma says no right I want I’ll just read what kozma said yes please do there’s a point in time Dallas they definitely did want me Winger presented me with what the trade was and

Obviously didn’t want to trade me and kind of left the decision up to me a little out come on he negotiated a trade I mean he can say he didn’t want to trade him but go ahead reading what kozma said obviously didn’t want to trade me and kind of left the decision

Up to me a little bit and asked me what I wanted to do I told him I wanted to stay and continue to build something and that was kind of the end of it and then you know he’s asked essentially why he says in my career I won a

Championship so I understand that when we play this game of basketball it’s not about contending for a playoff spot it’s about contending for an NBA championship there’s only like three or four contenders true contenders I just felt like our timelines didn’t line up which okay basically he’s saying the

Mavericks aren’t a contender and he doesn’t think they’re going to be a contender okay he’s got a he’s got a when he says his timeline okay he’s got a four-year contract these are his words this a not sources said these are his words these are his words so he says he

Doesn’t think the Mavericks are a contender during that period which man you can you can make that argument sure um it’s it’s kind of hard to make that argument from the bottom of the Eastern Conference standings as far as timelines lining up that’s what’s head scratching so look um that’s his explanation you

Know I I will say this had he have come to Dallas he very very clearly would have been the distant third option offensively as opposed to Washington where he’s the guy I can’t say that influenced his decision but I’m just pointing out facts um and as great of a player as Luca is

And we just talked about him being one of four legit MVP candidates this year he is as ball dominant as any play in the league and there are guys around the league I’m sure you guys have both talked to players who don’t necessarily want to play with Luca because of that

Now I think you can make a very strong argument that kozma would benefit massively from playing with Luca who is blitzed and doubled more than any player in the league and kzo would be in a situation where he’s getting open threes or he’s attacking Closeouts or scrambling defenses but apparently

That’s not the way that kma saw the situation well I got a hot take on this one which is that I think this trade not happening was a win for Washington and to win for Dallas because I think if Dallas had traded these two first round picks and

Grant Williams for Kyle kusma a I’m not sure they would have got better because Gusman’s not a great defensive player he’s fine and I I’m not sure he’s really all that much better than Grant Williams just like I didn’t think he was all that much better than PJ Washington however

By getting rashan Holmes and PJ Washington you’re at least getting two guys with those picks and then Daniel Gafford not ran Holmes not ran Holmes sorry Daniel Gafford yes getting Daniel Gafford getting PJ Washington you’re getting two players with those picks instead of one and at least as we have

Seen immediately with Daniel Gafford on the team do I think paying a first round pick for what a guy who is either a co-starter or backup center is a good value for a a value Asset strap math team no I do not but Daniel Gafford is a

Good play player and the combination of those guys to me is quite clearly an upgrade for Dallas whereas them getting kba for Pete or for Grant Williams I don’t think would have been and for Washington they get a first- round pick for Daniel Gafford a guy I was not sure

They were going to get a first- round pick for and now they still have kman to move later in a deal where this summer we’re going to see a lot of teams have more picks available to be traded maybe he can get maybe Michael Winger and Will

Dawkins can’t get two first- round picks for him this Summer in a deal maybe they end up up a first in the end now what we don’t know is whether the deal could have been built out to still include Gafford I would say we we can have a

Reasonable doubt because they gave up a first round pick just for Gafford and you can say for Gafford and to get off PM’s contract but you know throwing in some seconds I I it’s hard to to see the Wizards seeing that as value and look it’s not like the Mavericks you know had to start from scratch when when kuzma uh put the kabash at this thing they’re they had obviously been talking two teams I mean they were dangling Grant Williams all over the league they had they’d been having talks with the horns about PJ Washington you know they they’ uh you

Know been having talks with the Wizards obviously about kozma but all it’s not like this the first time oh well hey what do you think about Gafford yeah um so they weren’t they weren’t left starting from scratch um and and I there are some people I’ve talked

To in Dallas that before the trade deadline had questions about kozma specifically because kind of the feeling was we’ve got to get better defensively and not sure he does that now Grant Williams came in with a very good defensive reputation and didn’t play good defense in Dallas and I got I you

Know there’s people mad at me because I I said Grant Williams rubb people in Dallas the wrong way I was told that’s not why we traded him uh you know we traded him because we wanted to upgrade we weren’t desperate Grant Williams is rubbing people in Dallas the wrong way

From Charlotte he’s throwing all kinds of shade it’s almost like I might have known what I was talking about I would say one of the one of the ways of Grant Williams rub people the wrong way without uh even you know the ypp ypp yapping obviously that that’s kind of

Part of it with him which it’s charmingly obnoxious if he’s productive and it’s grading when he’s not but he didn’t he didn’t report in good shape and Grant Williams not in good shape is not a good Defender Grant Williams has proven throughout the course of his

Career when he gets in shape he can be impactful Defender but that’s not the guy that the Mavericks got well I will tell you that I have known Michael Winger for 19 years I have known him working for four different organizations and I will tell you that

He may not bat a thousand on any de on any situation but he’s not going to get out thought he will have considered every angle for a very long time so there’s a reason he went to kozma there’s a reason he promised it to him there’s a reason

He didn’t do this deal and there’s a reason why he’s going on the record telling the athletic that he wanted to keep Kyle and because he thought it would good for the team’s culture he also did not trade tyus Jones which I’m sure he had many different options to

Trade tus Jones um so what I would say is this is you know what I often say bont temps knows we’ll see we’ll see what happens where where Kyle kozma is in year see if he’s still a wizard or if he was traded and if he gets traded for

What maybe is better than this we’ll see if kozma ends up in a situation he’d like better I will say this when Kyle kosma signed the contract that he’s on right now last summer regardless of what and by the way K kosma has a very seasoned highly respected agent in

Austin Brown um represents many high level Superstars way bigger than Kyle kusma Austin Brown certainly knows exactly what’s going on to when he signed this contract the contract starts at 25 million goes to 23 21 and 19 that contract was negotiated designed and signed to be traded the whole point of a

Descending contract is to make it more attractive especially especially especially in a rising cap environment where there’s about to be a new television deal kicking in by the time that deal is over right so you know it’s one of the things when you’re a lawyer which by the way Michael Winger is one

Of the things that you can do is make new law if you can do something you can go through a court and the Law changes because you found a loophole in Michael Winger’s career he has gotten the NBA to change rules in the CBA because of loopholes he’s found um another guy I’ve

Known for about 20 years who’s now Vice President of the Knicks Brock Aller has done the same thing uh and these guys live for this kind of stuff so this was an unusual situation I’m scratching my head a little bit about it but that doesn’t mean I’m hating on it I just

Think it’s an unusual situation and it’s worth talking about well the unusual part is that it’s all plainly stated on the record and credit to Josh for getting Kusa and Michael Winger to talk about it because that that’s the like you said there’s all sorts of conversations happen after the deadline

About what happened or why it happened or what didn’t happen Etc but it’s not off and you have it that plainly be discussed so kudos to him on that um all right so we talked about the MVP straw poll um Victor wanyama was named rookie of the month in January after Chad hren

In the Western Conference um which is kind of where it’s at um Chad holgren won it in October November and December but then Victor won it in January and he’s playing very very well he had a triple double on Monday night where he had 10 blocks um and he set a whole

Bunch of different historical marks the most important ones was the first rookie to have a 10 block triple double since David Robinson in 1990 um so we’re talking about something you know that hasn’t happened in you know 34 years that’s significant um he Ser he’s had triple doubles with blocks

And and assists which hadn’t been done since Shaq uh I believe so we’re talking about a pretty awesome showing he’s averaging 20 points 10 rebounds and over three blocks a game and three assists by the way first to go 2010 three and three since Shaq MVP season not the first

Rookie the first player to average 20 points 10 rebounds three assists and three blocks and shaqs MVP season I’m also gonna point out that over the last 13 games because you know there’s a couple of things you can you could wrap Victor for one of which being his team stinks fair

But rookie of the year is not tied to team success it’s the one award that’s basically not um well I I mean okay sure you let him finish I’m just I’m just laughing he he’s a little salty that he he gave the award to Chad a month ago

McMahon I know no no again I never I never said that I never said that b say your peace say why you think the rookie go ahead it’s not what I don’t like it when people put in my mouth so Bon Temps if I did I apologize and I will take a I

Never I never I don’t apologize I will just say that you know the things that people would wrap ched on early or Victor on early in the season were his team sucks which is still the case two he absolutely couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn on the jumper specifically the

Three-point range and in his first 30 games I think he shot 29% from three and he was shooting five a game an absolutely Fair assessment over the last 13 games he’s shooting 39% on threes 13 games does not make a season but when you’re a rookie and you show Improvement

That’s what’s most important and he turns the ball over a lot and that’s because he’s a little weak with the ball people take it from him he makes ill-advised passes I would argue that he handles the ball too much just in general and the fact that they don’t

Really have much point guard play on that team but in this he all he sniffed a quadruple double in this game because he had seven turnovers he’s got a usage rate of 32 that is absurd like to your point it should be 25 he would be much better off if it was

25 okay all right I’m just saying Victor looks great go ahead Mr bontemps yeah I mean it’s it’s kind of a ridiculous position to put me in because I agree that’s what I was looking for yes I know it I know it was he is playing better I would point out that

Yes he was unbelievable in the game uh against Toronto on Monday truly from start to finish the prior two games he combined to have five rebounds and nine turnovers and they got drilled twice including once by the Nets who stink so I’m just saying it’s convenient timing

That we’re doing this yes I understand that I’m just saying it’s like yes he has an incredible game now it’s like man the MVP race is where it’s at 2010 three and three that’s his stats almost over 40 games yes here’s a here’s a different

Stat I will give you and again it’s just for you go there’s lot there’s lots of stats you could you could site for this I find this this race is going to be very interesting maybe there will be a different kind of straw pole later in

The year going we’ll see see how it’s going it’s it’s been requested by people we’ll see uh if it happens uh this season just as an example Victor wanyama in Wind shares in his class you want to guess where he’s at top five sixth okay Chad has almost four times as

Many it’s got six win shares himself with the Thunder he’s been the key player on a team that is at the literal opposite end of the standings from Victor and he’s also putting up really good stats across the board so all I have said from the beginning as Brian

From the beginning of the season has tried to declare even when Victor was not playing well at all that was going to be destined to run away and win MVP I just said the race wasn’t over that’s all I said and I will still say that the

Race isn’t over yeah I never said it was over either jackass no no no one no one is that I never said it was over either but there’s just been a rush from the beginning to find reasons to say Victor is gonna is the Rookie of the Year when

There’s now well no I’m not saying from everybody but our co-host has been trying to do that for two months no no no CU last time last time we discussed this which was I don’t know last time Victor had a great game probably three

Weeks we were in we we we had we were reached a consensus that chat was the front runner for the Rookie of the Year at that point and a major part of that was because Victor had been so inefficient offensively fellas the Great who you’re not allowed to criticize because he’s so

Awesome screwed Victor for the first couple months of the season with got no argument on that got no argument on that since the great genius pop the alltime WIS leader came to this miraculous decision to actually play the onepoint guard on the roster in the freaking starting lineup since January 4th when

Trey Jones moved in the starting lineup which was a while after the soam point guard experiment ended by the way since then Victor wanyama and only 27 minutes per game is averaging 22.7 points 9.9 rebounds 3.6 assists 3.3 blocks 1.1 steals his shooting splits are 50 36 85

True shooting percentage is 60.8% in that span which is actually dur that span is just a little sliver better than Chets and wy’s true shoot shooting percentage is up to 56.4 for the year which that’s not like awesome but it’s it’s it’s decent it actually would be

The best true shooting percentage by a rookie who averaged 20 points if we’re not counting zans 24 games and Beads 31 games you want to you want to guess the last rookie to average 20 points with a true shooting percentage better than 56.4 who played a full season probably

Like a big man yeah you want to guess gon I was gonna guess Shaq just as a default to Tim Duncan one of the other Tim Duncan before that I and I’ll read you all the rookies who have done this over the last four decades Tim Duncan Shaq Alonzo mouring David Robinson

Michael Jordan and Keem alijan pretty good l i mean you have to go back to to Carl Anthony towns to find a rookie of the year who had a better true shooting percentage he didn’t average as many points certainly wasn’t the defensive force that he was and look Chad is a

Legitimate candidate I don’t think this is decided by any stretch I I do feel like wimy might have taken the lead and as far as the team success thing goes look Chad has been a a huge part of the Thunder success he has been exactly what

They needed on both ends space in the floor uh Rim protection I I think it’s it’s reasonable to say hey if they switch teams the spots and the standings would be pretty much the same I mean yes and no I mean again excellent I think yeah well sure yes because yeah

Because again you you decided who you were gonna vote for in November and you’ve been trying to get everybody to come in November he said CH was the front runner he said in December no he didn’t did I did I said that I would vote for CH in December I mean again I

Think what makes this I’m a reasonable person sir what truly makes this an interesting race is what you said before which is incorrect about the team success part the reason it’s incorrect is because we never see rookies in the position Chad hren is in where he is the second most

Important player on one of the five best teams in the league we we just do not see that happen right that’s why this race in particular is so fascinating because second most important player but in a perfect situation for him to succeed I’m not okay yes last year the

Thunder were a playin team that got demolished in the playin and this year they might have the the best record in the Western Conference and they changed one player like yes they’re young they’re young players they got better the main difference is this guy is playing Center and has dramatically

Changed the team which we just do which we do not see and Victor on the other hand is something we’ve never seen before right who’s doing all this crazy stuff like like last night where I was laughing watching some of these highlights at home I mean he’s dunking

From outside the lane he’s doing all this unbelievable stuff and in virtually any season he would have 100 votes and it would be over it would have been over in December even with him playing up and down with his efficiency and everything else right so that that I think is what

It makes it such an interesting thing because yes if you want to just look at the raw stats on it like Victor’s got better stats now but the stats are close they’re not dramatically different and Chad is driving winning in a way we’ve I I think you could argue other

Than like Tim Duncan we’ve basically not seen a rookie do one thing I forgot to mentioned about Victor and this is a pretty remarkable thing considering the spur spot in the standings in that stretch he’s played 19 games since January 4th he has a positive plus minus in that

Stretch which again considering that roster is pretty remarkable well the best point in his favor is that part of it is this is the Spurs not having him play center earli in the year and the other part of is like you said it was insane we talked about it a lot

That every time you looked at the the splits with him and Tre Jones they were really good and they just refused to play him with a point guard for the first what two and a half months and shockingly once he started playing center with a point guard and the floor

Was better spaced and they had somebody to operate their offense he looked better it’s like this is not not rocket science guy it’s not rocket science it’s not rocket science it was spur science we’re not smart enough to understand it and you better not ask him about it

Because oh no can’t question the great pop yeah uh Jackson points out the chat’s usage rate is 10% 10% 10 points lower than Victors both of you made very eloquent cases thank you for participating in this discussion before we go I do think we should point out

That you know we’ve hammered the Bucks quite a bit for their um ineptitude Midway through this season on on the way through this season um I think we talked on the Pod last week where I was talking about how within the team there was some some belief and

Whether it was rational or not we’re gonna have to see that their processes were getting better that their practices were getting better that their their strategy was getting better their film sessions were getting better that they were seeing Improvement even though it wasn’t showing in the stats on the

Scoreboard as they lost five of the first six games Doc coached well they’ve won the last couple held the last couple teams under a 100 which hadn’t happened in Forever um and they had a really nice win against the against the nuggets on Monday night now they were at home Jamal

Murray uh suffered an injury in that game and left early um I’m not overacting pop right I am not overreacting to one game in February that said it’s been a Barren Wasteland for defense for the bucks and and they showed a little something have B to the rescue

Baby the Savior has arrived I can’t have no fear Dame is here to save you I haven’t studied it but th that statement is not untrue as far as I know um but it was a really good win I don’t know if it was a statement win you know the the the

Nuggets are in fourth place they’re not unbeatable they’ll take some losses beaten four out of Sev another story but um I do think that there’s a belief within the Bucks that they can square this around and get themselves into a position where defensively they give themselves a chance and there’s

Seedlings it’s all I’m gonna say well and if Yannis if Giannis believes I mean listen he’s still one of the top we can argue three four players in the league last night one of those one of those nights for him 36 points 18 rebounds five assists three steals two blocks I

Mean does a little bit of everything had a similar performance in Dallas you know I mean he’s a force to be reckon with especially when he feels good about uh who’s tell him to sub in and out of the game well listen the Bucks still have a

Lot of issues as we know however if you look at the Eastern Conference right now with Joel embiid his status being undetermined at the moment right in terms of where he’s going to be the Bucks are not going to be afraid of playing Cleveland in a series bucks are

Not going to be afraid of playing the Knicks in the series they maybe should be afraid of playing Indiana series based off those regular season games went but I suspect that I suspect that Giannis and Co will take care of bus if they play them you know we’ll see if

They have to play a healthy Miami team how that will go we’ve seen that script before that would be interesting but you’ve got and and look if they play Boston they got the best player right and at the end of the day like until they get beat in the playoffs there’s a

Reason why like at the end of the day in the playoffs it tends to be who has the best player wins well they have the best player and they have the best closer and they’re not the same guy clearly yes and if you’re playing the Celtics the team that we have seen

Repeatedly struggle at the to close out games and close out series that could be where Dame makes a difference now you could again immediately come back and say the Celtics have probably the two two best guys the lead to guard him which is true and we’ll see how that

Matchup plays out if it happens but there’s plenty of reasons why you know Brian another phrase you like to use all all the time right is there’s always time yes sir and there’s still a third of the season to go and there’s a lot of time and as you said big manah if

Giannis is invested and buying into what you’re doing that’s good enough to get you pretty far alone before you factor in anything else as a quick as side McMahon my all there’s always time mant is applying to the Warriors right now we’re not talking about that at the moment but

I just we’ll stick with that as well go ahead McMahon hey that’s the one thing from the Sunday pod that held up our Warriors discussion we were on we were on ESPN Tuesday praising the Cavaliers after they just lost the 76ers they they’ve only lost one game

Since New Year’s Day the 76ers were 12 point underdogs in that game after Tobias sis has ruled out our our ESPN two now it was up on all every place you get your podcast but you know and on YouTube but you know that thing is in the can recorded on Sunday afternoon and

Cavs are as 12o underdogs are spiking it at home sorry go ahead than I think you just summed it up oh all right well uh Minnesota also got a really good way now Minnesota’s playing tonight against Portland so now that I’m saying that they’ll probably lose by 30

Um but uh you know Minnesota is 3 and0 this year against the nuggets and Clippers and you know they got to play the Nuggets three more times they got to come back to LA and play the Clippers and L uh and Lakers again but they they they

Um you know Jackson points out the Bucks are playing Miami tonight I’m you know put your money on on the second on the second on the second out of a back to back put your money on the heat that’s all I got to say what are they uh anyway

Um but the wolves have really a lot of really good Road wins this year and the Nuggets don’t struggle with size but you have to have size to deal with the Nuggets because they’re so big and the Clippers have pretty much been impenetrable for the last two months but

The times where they’ve stumbled it sometimes has been related to size they had issues with the Cavs last week in Cleveland Cavs have great size um and the had some issues with the Lakers at times this year yes and um um yeah the Lakers have beaten them and

The obviously this the wolves have enormous size and the and goar was in his element just denying the front of that rim and the Clippers just couldn’t get in there yeah and tyo was trying different lineups he was trying different attacks and it was a night when the Clippers weren’t shooting the

Ball well from the outside but go was like no it was also night an Edwards went one of 11 from three-point range the Wolves still won comfortably tell you what and we’ve talked about hey the Wolves they can it can get dicey down the stretch of close games we we’ve

Pointed out the flaws and the and kind of the the reasons to maybe have some doubt about them as a as a Bonafide Contender well let me let me give you something that’s reason to believe they are 23 and 11 against teams that are 500 or better that is the best

Record in the NBA against those teams they’re 23 and 11 uh the the Celtics are 22 and 11 the only other team in this this one might surprise you a little bit or maybe not the only other team that has at least 20 wins against 500 better squads are those young Scrappy Oklahoma

City Thunders yeah and the Doug Mo standings which is where you subtract home losses from Road winds the uh the Timberwolves are plus 13 um 18 Road WIS five home losses so you know you look at the Celtics who have been pretty much impenetrable at home they’re 25 and three um the Celtics

Are um plus 13 as well so you know that’s well when we talked about the SS earlier relation to MVP and when you’ve got the Clippers and Nuggets with a bunch of season veteran players whove been deep in the playoffs and then you’ve got the wolves and thunder which

Are young generally inexperienced teams when it comes to the playoffs that seating in particular I think for those young teams matters a lot and I think it’s going to be a big difference if they’re having homec court advantage in second round and Beyond if they get there um depending on matchups and even

You know depending whoever they get then if they’re having to go to Denver or one of these other teams that could make a real difference down the road it’s going to be interesting to see how that ultimately all shakes out yeah so a very good win for the uh for the wolves and

As a in a baseball Series in Portland before uh the allar our break uh all right thank you Mr bontemps for the straw poll we always love it it’s always valuable can’t wait for that Rookie of the Year straw pole now I mean I wasn’t

Gonna bring it up but now that you have the whole world oh has heard it and so now you’re under obligation sorry they also wanted they want to print it in French as well that’s right uh thank you Mr McMahon thank you to Jackson our producer thank you Fen hoop collect

We’ll be talking to you later this week I have am igos

Brian Windhorst is joined by Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to this season’s second MVP Straw Poll, including a newcomer to the top 2 and who the true contenders are. Plus, what to expect in the Rookie of the Year battle between Chet & Wemby, Minnesota and Milwaukee’s improved play and a fascinating story on a Kyle Kuzma trade that didn’t happen.

0:00 2nd MVP Straw Poll Reaction
19:59 Kuzma Rejected A Trade?
34:25 Rookie Of The Year Race Heats Up
46:21 Bucks Showing Signs Of Improvement?
51:52 Minnesota Keeps Winning Pace

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