Stop Trying To Break Up The Cleveland Cavaliers!

Stop Trying To Break Up The Cleveland Cavaliers!

What is crack lack in fellow thermonuclear aers I am Dan pavali joined by for the first time in quite a while but he is the co-host of one of my favorite team Centric podcasts the chase down podcast Cleveland Cavaliers podcast Carter Rodriguez co-host to chased down with Dustin Rowan one of my favorite

Podcasts as I Stumble through this we’re going to talk about the Cleveland Cavaliers follow Carter on Twitter Carter shade spelled exactly as it sounds Carter it’s been way I think you’re on this podcast a couple years ago it’s been way too long so one apologies and two how the heck are you

Well luckily for you I’m horrible at at accepting pot invites so you know the reality is it’s probably we you probably did me a favor by not making me have to say no uh no I’m doing great um uh Cavs are super duper fun right now um Family

Super good uh you can’t ask for much more yeah I mean the Cavs we’re here to talk of course about Evan moley trade packages uh which is yeah um gotta get them out we’re here to talk about look as we’re recording this Darius Garland

Is back Evan Moy is back I don’t think I ever would have predicted they would have made it through that stretch uh including the one game with Moy of course they have the best net rating in the NBA since that initial game where both Moy and Garland lost I have to

Start there there are a lot of elements that I think when you look at it that go into what they did but was there like a few things that stood out in particular everyone’s talking about Jared Allen or Donovan Mitchell or said like what is what is just a sauce behind the calav

Just not just surviving this stretch but but thriving during it so I’ll knock out all the boring stuff first because I do think it’s important to present a balanced blah blah blah blah blah uh so they have had a pretty darn easy schedule uh during this 19 game stretch

They’ve had one of the hardest stretches in the league and even even after this relatively easy stretch where they’ve gone 15 and four uh they still have the third easiest schedule the rest of the way which really underscores how brutal the first you know 152 games of their

Year were uh they also and even when they’ve had some of their tougher matchups you know uh they’ll you know going on the road to play at Orlando who has been really great at home all year things like that it was their third game in for nights like they’ve had a couple

Of those like good breaks uh they’ve also only played 19 G uh they’ve only played 19 games during this stretch uh 27 other teams have played at least 22 uh the Pacers have played 26 in the same stretch so like oh I didn’t notice that when I was looking at the numbers

Yeah so they they’ve now part of that is skewed by the fact that they played they had only one game in one week when they went to Paris to play Brooklyn so it’s not like it’s just been super spaced out like they’ve had you know a relatively normal Cadence within that but they’re

Not getting like slammed with back toback after back to back after back to back in in in this window since December 15 so like plenty of you know so that’s all that’s all like the the boring context that I feel like I have to provide to be a good guest in your

Podcast and be relatively bounds that ain’t context that makes you the best team in the league over darn near quarter of the season right with two of your three best players missing like that that is uh that that’s like the reason why you might win one or two more

Than expected not going on a tear that you know puts you right at the top of the Eastern Conference race for like the two seed like they’re right there with with Milwaukee with Philly and with New York and I think some of it has in just a straight up shot profile change uh

They were not they didn’t have a bad shot profile perking class they had they had the fourth best uh in you know before December 15th in the league mostly living at The Rim though they were first uh in the league in frequency of shots at The Rim they were about SI I

Believe they were 16th um in frequency from three since then they are numero one from three I mean they are they are bombing away my friend uh they are they have really they really had to embrace basically shot come from Deep that’s that’s something and they had to embrace

That kind of high Varian style you know when you’re when you’re missing a lot of your ball handling Because by the way Donovan Mitchell missed four or five of those games of those 19 Caris missed four or five of those games so like they had to kind of lean on their strength

And it’s crazy to say but you look up and down their roster and Donovan Mitchell Sam Merill which we’ll get into Sam Merill the marlant uh George Nang uh Max stru Dean Wade like they they just have a lot of stretchy guys that can that can bomb away and they

Kind of lean into that I also think there was a degree of simplification like they were a little just yucky on offense to start the year it was just everything felt like kind of a labor everything was a was a thought process nothing felt crazy smooth and like one

Thing I think really helped like you look at the lineup they they were starting of Donovan Mitchell Isa okoro Max dreu Dean Wade and Jared Allen everyone knows their job in that starting five you know Jared Allen uh we had Serena winners who does amazing sideline work for for balet Sports on

Had the iconic clip that’s just totally unfaced that was just incredible she’s a G man the the no look fist bump for Jarrett and she mentioned that uh she talked about how Jared stepped up in the stretch and he’s like yeah like I just know I have to attack cuz like sometimes

I I I think the the quotee is like sometimes I’ll take the easy way out and just throw it up to Evan in the dunker spot like like the fact that he just has to attack that uh that Dean Wade who is famously like at his worst is a guy who

Just will disappear on offense for a whole game like he’s a guy who might play 33 minutes and only get up two shot attempts and like that’s just really hard to deal to to deal with but like there’s no better option when you’re missing that many guys so if Dean’s a

Little open in the corner the team like bro you got to Sho it so like all of these you know all of this decisiveness and Clarity of purpose I think really helped them kind of bridge the talent Gap because if you look at their results you know we talk a lot about shooting

Luck on the chase down because it matters a lot it’s like you know a lot of these games come down to did you make your wide open threes or did you miss them and sometimes you can look at a team’s hot stretch and go oh they’re just hitting all their threes and that

Will normalize and they’ll they won’t win that much uh the Cavs are 15th in effective uh three-point or an effective field goal percentage like they are not out they’re actually way under shooting their profile during this stretch so like even though it feels like the offense has opened up so much they’re

Just they’re just leaning into that high variance that high variance has carried them along with a defense that is just killing teams at the point of attack uh with Isaac okoro and Dean Wade getting a ton more minutes like they’re their two best perimeter Defenders on the team

That are sometimes the eighth and Ninth man for them MH and they were started so you know being able to throw those guys at a Dame Lillard and a Chris Middleton or a Paul George and a James Harden or a Kawhi Leonard like that stuff really helps um and even though they have

Gotten a little lucky on opponent shooting the fact that they’ve had the number one defense in the league during the stretch without their best defensive player I think really speaks to the way those guys are playing at the point of attack so it’s funny when people ask

Like what’s going so well I I have nothing to say other than everything everything was going well they didn’t have a single player who was playing poorly Sam Merill is taking the third most three-pointers per 100 possessions in the history of the league and shooting 42% on

Them yeah I mean what yeah that’s just it’s like and even so you look at it you know you were mentioning okay so they struggled from the field in certain areas but they make up for it with their three-point shooting and it’s like even Max dreu I think ever since I think it

Was since the Garland injury he’s at like 31% % from three or whatever it is and just the stuff he does as one a threat than like his secondary playmaking and movement inside the arc it’s just there they it was so collaborative the way it was happening

Right down to Donovan Mitchell but I think the name that has received the most shine during this has been Jared Allen because we all know what Donan Mitchell does and so I’m just curious as to one I know you don’t know this but like we skewered the Jared Allen

Contract when it was signed on this podcast so one of our outros it buddy we shout out Frankie Lina because he’s a legend and then we apologize to apologize to Jared Allen at the end of every podcast that Grant and I do together for the past couple Seasons

I’ve talked to Justin about how bet much better he’s gotten on offense over the years and then there’s like now there’s another level to it this season where you’re looking at yeah we know he can do the the one and true dribble decision making we know he has the hook shot now

It’s like oh he has like this crazy footwork when he’s moving off the dribble and facing up too what is most impressed you about the way that he’s played or his offensive progression or just what he has done during this stretch uh I mean again boring answer everything

Um uh he is he is really they just kind of replaced Evan Mo’s top of the key uh dribble handoff sets with Jarrett and you know he’s not quite the passer Evan is but he’s done a heck of a good impression you know he’s had plenty of

Six seven assist games which has just never been a part of his profile on offense that’s never been his game he’s a he’s been a play finisher not a play initiator and the Cavs just were like well how about we try it buddy and you

Know like they and he’s been able to do that on super spaced courts where his reads are easier and he’s just making the right play more often than not then as an attacker he’s taking more mid-rangers which he’s always been a very good well as a Cavalier he’s been a

Very good mid-range jump shooter and just never takes them he’s at like 53% or something for mid-range this year that’s what it’s on like 52 attempts but I don’t really care that’s like you’re going to get that from your Center that’s line by me yeah uh so so he’s

He’s taken those um I think his face up game he talked a lot uh he talked to us at media day about how he’s really been working on his face up game and how he attacks and uh when they they’ve played Milwaukee three time or four times this

Season he’s killed Brook Lopez in every game in isolations like Brooke will get him every now and again on some of these Rim attacks but he’s beating Brook Lopez off the dribble from the elbow to get to to finish through him uh or finish over

Him when Brook’s In Too Deep of a drop like we saw this guy get completely wiped out by a drop defense in the playoffs against the Knicks um I mean completely uh and the fact that you know that you can tell this is a thing he’s

Like man I’m it’s not happening to me again if they drop that far I’m gonna find a way to kill teams whether it’s in my dribble handoff game whether it’s in my floater game whether it’s in a mid-range jumper and he’s doing all of it uh and staying really really

Efficient and then the one thing I really haven’t seen uh in terms of praise for Jarrett because obviously everyone he’s one of the most likable players in the league so I feel like whenever he does well like everyone starts to gravitate towards him one thing I haven’t seen is praise for his

Rebounding because that’s the other spot where the Cavs got absolutely murdered last year uh in the playoffs they were dead last uh in the league after the All-Star break and defensive rebound rate uh in the playoffs they were certainly dead last because the Knicks just destroyed them on that side of the

Ball through this stretch they they’ve been the number two defensive rebounding team in the league I might even have him at one at this point after the Clippers game that is very very possible so uh the fact of the matter is like they’re doing that without Evan Moy who’s the

Second best defensive rebounder on the team uh and really like Dean Wade isn’t a high rebound guy um Max stru has never been a high rebound guy Isaac OK cor has never been a high rebound guy Tristan Thompson is but he’s mostly an offensive glass guy he’s never been a particularly

Elite defensive rebounder so the fact that Jared’s like I think Jared’s uh just secured his 16th consecutive double double today um he’s just cleaning the glass in a way that like he’s high pointing the ball he’s grabbing he’s squeezing the orange uh and and finishing plays like these are the these

Are the little bits of improvement like the cabs clearly learned a lot from that playoff series and I always talk about what lessons a front office chooses to learn because you can’t just like you can’t just try to solve every problem that pops up in a playoff series because everything’s so interdependent right

Every every you know everything you do every tweak you have like whether it’s oh we have to go switch on that so now we’re not going to rebound as well like you can’t just solve everything you have to figure out like what’s like the root diagnosis so you’re not just treating

Symptoms the Cavs clearly were like shooting this is a root diagnosis we we think if we can shoot the ball better all this stuff goes away and all the other things won’t feel so bad they did not go and improve their defensive re rebounding like they’re actually playing

A little smaller on the perimeter and you know and they’re they’re about the same in terms of the front cour they’re still just playing two traditional bigs throughout the whole game they’re not playing any Burly power forwards other than Evan Mobley uh who you know obviously they haven’t had a lot of

Chance to do that they just clearly as a team were like hey let’s not suck at this anymore let’s get better at this let’s let’s choose to care about this and they have and it’s working and it’s one of the reasons their defense is so so freaking Elite despite the fact that

You know they’ve been missing their best defender for half the year yeah he’s I can’t say enough good things about Jared Allen um and part of that might be compensating for our takes like two or three years ago when he signed that that contract listen sometimes sometimes you got to

Overcompensate that’s part of it Donnie Mitchell uh uh shooting six his effective field goal percentage on step back jumpers I included this in the outline because I didn’t even think it when I went to look it up I was like it feels like this will be high I didn’t

Expect to be that high 66 effective field goal rate on step back jumpers everyone knows what he’s done as a scorer I do think that he has done a really good job of toggling Gears without Darius Garland this year and I don’t mean that just as when you dig

Into the passing numbers they’re different like he’s passing on more of his drives his assist rate’s going to be higher but he’s also not like I know he goes through stretches where it’s the Donan Mitchell show Almost because it has to be like this is someone who

Embraces being a part of the larger context as well and it feels like he’s actually done that just as much if not more without Darius Garland so just curious about your thoughts on whether that’s an accurate observation whether you feel the same way or what’s impressed you the most about him during

This stretch well frankly I was a little disappointed with the way the season started for both Donovan and Darius uh I I just didn’t think they were playing particularly well together um I thought they were doing like I was listening to National podcast go it’s just more hit

My turn your turn I was like they weren’t doing that last year they’re just doing it now and I don’t know why uh there wasn’t that Synergy for whatever reason um and I just frankly I didn’t think he was playing crazy selflessly I like I was really impressed by how selfless he

Played uh last year and I just didn’t I wasn’t seeing it I felt like maybe it was maybe he was just trying to take maybe he was just pressing I’m not sure what it is but I I wasn’t seeing him play the kind of ball I thought he could

Play and I feel like over the last month or two he’s been playing his best basketball perhaps of his career uh without Darius you would think any offense who has a first unit led by Donovan Mitchell as the only ball handler and a second unit led by Caris

LT as the only ball handler you would think that would be a little bit of a you know ISO Joe Hawkes offense right where it’s like hey you can might be able to muster a good offense sure that’s nice but like you’re not going to be a ball movement offense you’re not

Going to be a uh you know it’s not it’s not going to feel like the Spurs it’s going to feel very like you’re just going to be efficient by not turning the ball over and just always getting a shot up the Cavs over the since December 15th

Are first in the league in passes per game second in the league in potential assists per game and fourth in the league in points generated off of assist per game and I feel like that is purely Donovan Mitchell setting the tone um you know I think no one has seemed to enjoy

Sam Merrill’s Renaissance quite like Donovan uh he is hunting for him for handoff Action guard guard screens uh finding him in semi-ring to build up his teammates in a way that I just don’t know if he’s ever been at this level as a playmaker you know I’ve always considered him a very

Functional playmaker you run a spread pick and roll he gets into the teeth of the defense if someone slides down he passes to the corner if they don’t he shoots you know and it feels like he’s doing a lot more orchestrating and passing guys open and you know making

The skip pass to the opposite corner um some really audacious driving kicks uh in terms of both the angles he’s generating and the zip he’s putting on the ball on the way out uh he’s his playmaking has been on another level and then defensively he’s never going to be

A great ISO Defender I just think his the way he plays angles are not great but the Closeouts uh have been really really really good he has that low in or gravity and it really helps him uh on those Closeouts where he can fly at the

Ball but still chop his feet and not get blown by um and the rest of the Cavs Defenders you know Dean Wade and Isaac okoro they’re not big steals guys that’s not really their brand they are crazy fundamental and they just they just keep guys in front of them and make

Them take hard shots Donovan’s been playing a lot of free safety and he is kind of the the chaos engine on the defensive end of the floor for them he’s the one that’s just you know jumping passing lanes and going for pick sixes and that’s a really important

Thing you know uh like there’s a lot of fundament because fundamental defense gets beaten a lot in the league because guys are so stinking good so no it’s because it’s the rules defense doesn’t get played that’s why car come on oh it’s I forgot it wasn’t it’s because no

One tries on defense no uh like fundamental defense gets beaten a lot so you need that chaos engine every now and again just to muck things up and get teams off their Rhythm and make them think about it frankly you know uh you you need you know some of these hyper

Aggressive defenses will mess you up just by making you think about you know a lazy pass every now and again and I just think he’s done really really well on both sides of the floor he really hasn’t been his most efficient as a scorer uh during this stretch it just

Hasn’t mattered because the everything because every other part has been so darn good yeah he’s like shooting sub 32% on catch and shoot threes during the stretch which is just like like that those are the looks that you expect Donovan Mell to shoot a pretty high clip

On I’m wondering if we could in part because we are pressed for time overall if we can run through the others very quickly and you can talk about what’s most impress you or we should be monitoring with them moving forward so are you ready I included them the

Alphabet’s tough for me but they’re an alphabetical order I’m not ranking these players in terms of importance for anyone who cares so we begin with Caris LeVert uh Caris has been uh really really good uh I you can see the times where he is overextended as the team’s

Deao backup point guard with Ricky Rubio’s retirement and Ty Jerome’s long-term ankle injury that he unfortunately just had to have surgery on because it’s just not healing um he kind of needs to be in that role though because they gotta play Same Merill Merill has been so good uh that he kind

Of needs to be the 10th Man in their rotation and that means that you don’t have room for a backup point guard so you feel that every now and again he’s just he’s just is a hot and cold player you know uh when theum jumpers falling he feels really really really deadly and

Like a crazy luxury and when he’s getting into the teeth and doing driving kicks which he’s always been a better drive and kick guy than people understand um yeah they back to his time in Brooklyn like that was just the thing yeah so so he’s a he’s a very solid

Playmaker for a bench guard um you know uh and then he really has been competing on the defensive end sometimes he just Space Cadets a little bit and he’ll he’ll kind of uh you know he’ll play an angle wrong or or not or you know uh someone will pre-rotate and he doesn’t

Go get that guy’s guy you know things like that but overall been really happy with Carris and like you know it it’s it’s hard to ask more of them than what they’ve asked of him yeah his and I do think you mentioned at the probing like

He’s really jacked that up on a per minute basis um during this stretch so that’s been huge for them next up on the list is everyone’s been waiting for this Sam Merill fire off the takes I mean he’s just uh get him in the Three-Point Contest first off I mean he’s just been

He’s really added something to this team and uh I I I’ve already kind of talked about his three-point rate which is unbelievably Elite um but he’s also defending well uh his playmaking has been good when guys run him off the line uh he is Gen he’s got he’s starting to

Get that quor level respect where other guys are getting wide openen layups because people are so panicked about him you know like like uh Donovan Mitchell uh ran past him in Semi-translucent he’s been amazing and also I this is a spot where you have to give a little credit to the front office because when I’ve said this a lot when you go all in on any trade whoever it may be and you spend a lot of pick

Capital the onus becom goes to the front office to be likey okay you got to go find Diamonds in the Rough because the traditional way of finding role players aka the draft is not going to be available to you so finding a guy like Sam Marill uh is really really important

And uh you got to be geeked if you’re the Caps George Nang and why is it his secondary Rim protection you know George started out he had a really rough start to the year um yeah that that signing wasn’t looking that hot at the beginning of the Season

Uh it was looking bad uh because he was shooting like 28% from three uh a guy who has been the most reliable 40% probably in the entire NBA I think he had a here’s my pet Theory it’s completely unsubstantiated aggregator alert okay there we go uh I my theory is

That playing next to Joel embiid with his archetype changed the way he moved in an offense because Joel embiid’s one of the few players in the league who generates an advantage and triggers a defensive help before you’ve done anything like he just gets a catch and guys have to start

Moving you know playing on one leg as we saw against the the warriors on yeah no kidding uh so George could just could plant himself in the corner and just wait for the ball to get to him uh you know with this team he’s had to move a

Little bit more uh catch you know shoot off of relocations and things like that so I think it took him a second to find his stride and was leading to a lot of like these weird for you know dribble drives to the hoop that were not going

Well um you know was getting and it’s just hard for him with his body type to and athleticism to guard so if he wasn’t scoring he certainly wasn’t going to be a great defender um and it it wasn’t going well as of late though I think he’s really found a rhythm uh he’s

Shooting better but more importantly uh he is just he’s making the right reads he’s in the right parts of the floor on both sides of the floor uh his you know it’s not a particularly bulky team uh and when he gets to guard guys who aren’t blazing fast you know like he’s

Done well against the Julius randles of the world he even did well on Kawai on a few switches uh in their game against the Clippers so I’ve been really pleased with George and uh he he was someone I really wanted them to sign I thought I

Had some egg on my face but uh it has been ticking back up let’s just say Isaac perhaps the most underrated passer in transition in the league aoro uh he has been he is their best transition player uh uh and as a result he’s also their best foul drawer uh he

Leads the team in fre throw rate um uh and I’ve been really really impressed with Isaac and the jumper is will I think always be kind of a work in progress I don’t know if it’s ever just going to be reliable I mean the the numbers look good the you know the on

The it test doesn’t always look good you know you can kind of tell the second it leaves his hand if if he got enough you know if he snapped the wrist well enough and if you got enough arc on it um what I don’t think I understood because I

Justin and I have obviously spent a lot of time the last couple years just talking about all the ways we could see Isaac getting better Justin to spent a lot of time over the past couple years selling me on Isaac ooro is I’ve been I’ve I’ve been pretty avid critic of him

But Justin has been there pedling his stock from that’s he Justin loves him and I do too um but one thing that you know for all the times we’ve talked about oh he can do this he can do this he can do this he could get better at

This one thing we haven’t spent any time talking about is how if he would get better on defense and he’s taking another leap defensively this year um he is not fouling and he is destroying top level guards uh Dame Lillard’s like nine for like 30 against him this year uh he

James Harden had like four points through three quarters against the Clippers um he is I think in that 95th to 9 99th percentile among perimeter Defenders especially on guards um and it’s made him kind of indispensable uh you know they have all these guys that they have to play and

You know minutes are are a finite resource so that’s scary um but yeah I mean I just think he’s been so freaking impressive and uh the way he’s guarding is has gone up another notch and you know I posted a montage of of Dame trying to get the same foul call in like

Six straight possessions against him and Isaac was just chest to chest with them the whole way it was it was unbelievable so very very impressed with Isaac even if the jumper hasn’t felt that much better we had on this next player we had a question in one of our mailbags a few

Weeks back from a Discord member and so I ended up doing a 10-minute breakdown on Craig Porter Jr which is not something I had on my 23 24 NBA season podcasting bingo card what can you what can you say about him uh yet another diamond in the rough you know you

Everyone everyone after he has early season burst we like how does this guy go on draft and it’s like well he’s 23 and small and and not really a shooter like that’s that’s a pretty unusual profile but like again you have to find Diamonds in the Rough if you’re in you

Know organization that only had one late second round pick in the draft and I think they found one in cpj um his athleticism is just off the charts um he’s got such bounce he’s quick off his feet um he’s got crazy fast hands uh he led his college team in in blocks uh

Which is ridiculous uh and when I saw that I immediately went and checked out his wingspan he a very normal wingspan it’s he’s not exceptionally long either it’s not like one of these guys who’s 61 but with a 68 wingspan it’s like a normal I don’t remember exactly what it was but

It wasn’t exceptional he just has Elite timing uh and he just gets up off his feet really fast he’s one of those kind of you know like Zack LaVine like the first time we watched him how he just kind of levitates in the air you know he

Doesn’t have a huge load up to get up uh he has that um really great craft uh really great read in the pick and roll uh not to go full Money Ball meeme but his defect is he can’t shoot he doesn’t want he does not want to take threes he is

Not interested in taking Threes And even though he’s made some when he misses it’s one of those things where it’s like oh that’s why you didn’t want to shoot uh and he offsets it though he’s like a water Wiggly from the in between where it’s like you can’t really figure out

What he’s gonna do or like cover him there so that helps a little bit I have no idea what I just did but there fireworks going off in my background I’ll fix bet are you on Mech yeah it’s a new it’s a new Mac camera feature it’s

So weird that’s I’m not even using my Mac camera right now that’s annoying as hell well Craig Porter Jr got fireworks yes he’s a firework he is he is the embodiment of fireworks uh but I mean he’s out of the rotation right now um some people are not super thrilled with

That I totally understand uh JB just can only play so many guys right um and I do think the jumper is a limit when he’s not getting to be on Ball and like when the team’s fully healthy he’s just not g to get to be on ball but his

Fearlessness and coolness I mean it’s clear there’s a reason uh you can tell he’s 23 you know he’s played a lot of basketball uh and he is much more comfortable than a lot of guys in his position would be in some of these spots I mean he went straight into Joel

Embiid’s chest for a go-ahead layup in overtime earlier in the year I mean you can’t get much better than that in terms of fearlessness so I think he’s on a two-way right now if he ends the year on a two-way I’ll be stunned yeah CU they have roster spots open too and just

Given the injuries they’ve dealt with it would be weird if they didn’t convert him yeah I think they’re just playing it slow uh in the meantime while they’re get through the deadline and things like that I think uh they are right up against the tax I think they’re like two

And a half 2.7 million so they might I think they’re trying to hold that spot just in case like a crazy buyout opportunity comes by after the deadline that’s my guess at least um they also have like if they could compensate someone to take on Tai Jerome they could

You know get some more wiggle room under the tax as well yes yeah they they there’s plenty of roads I just don’t think I don’t think they want to count their chickens before they hatch because like why would you he’s on you know he he has eligibility left for the regular

Season on his two-way although I don’t think he’s spent a single game in the G League yet uh but he’s you know but like while they have it I just think they’re in no hurry you know they signed Pete nans to ATT 10day just to you know do

Him a solid I think and use that because you have to have you can’t leave too roster spots open for I think it’s like past 14 days I forget the the window um but I I kind of suspect they’ll do the same uh and get through the deadline and

Then you know make finalize their roster for the postseason Max stru streu has just been really fun you know he’s a guy who isn’t shooting well and you know a lot of smug heat twitterers were like ah see see what we said and I’m like I don’t know what you’re talking about

He’s still really freaking helpful like right he’s guarding at a high level um his movement and gravity really do a lot for this team his playmaking has been really good he’s averaging a career high and assist like early in the year he was averaging four or five assists a game

Which he’s never been that kind of guy again he was just a play finisher for Miami so uh you know really great chemistry with Evan Moy that I’m eager to see him ReDiscover now that Mo’s back uh he was he’s been the plus minus God for these guys uh throughout the year

And uh he’s earned every bit of it and to wrap this up Dean put the word out that he’s back up Wade Dean’s been great man and like I think if JB ends up deciding to trim down the RO he’s never been a 10-man rotation guy in

His entire coaching career and he play he’s played in 10 tonight against the Pistons and man he’s got a hard choice to make because if he does end up going down to nine he probably is going to have to choose between two of Sam Merill Dean Wade and George

Nang and I don’t know who he should pick because Dean has been so good and you know I think Dean has kind of been the inverse of George where the defense is so excellent but he just disappears and George the defense is sketchy but the offense and the spacing is always there

And like if you could just meld those two together you’d probably have one of the best you know role playing four men in the league but like Dean at his best is as helpful as any role player on the Caps uh it’s just that cons finding that consistency he’s not been a consistent

Three-point shooter uh in his career he goes through stretches where he’s unbelievable and he’ll go through stretches where he’ll go 10 games and take you know 26 threes like that’s just not enough uh if you’re going to be a a medium to high minutes player but the defense for

Him has been as good if not better or as good as Isaac uh except guarding bigger guys um he is their best option against big wings guys like Jason tatums kawii Leonards of the world uh and he’s taking on that challenge every time and I’ve just been really really impressed by him

You kind of touched on this already though so when we’re looking at a full strength even playoff type rotation you think it ends up being Dean Wade and Sam Merill is like the most important of the and we know Caris lever is going to be in there like of these guys that we’ve

Mentioned those you think those end up being the most prominent factors I don’t know yet to be honest and like what I’ve what I’ve described is that I think the Cavaliers this last year JB had maybe five and a half guys he trusted which is pretty tough you know because Isaac was

Hurt uh you know he missed the month leading up to the playoffs and uh was questionable for game one not a lot of people remember that Dean Wade literally couldn’t lift his arms above his shoulders because he was so hurt yeah um and you know he clearly couldn’t

Play and couldn’t help uh this year JB has a lot more guys to play so what I’ve been describing is they’ve got Great Pumpkin Insurance like every postseason series one of your role players is going to turn into a pumpkin it’s either like either the moment’s too big for him it’s

A tough matchup their jumper just isn’t going whatever it may be like that’s why they’re role players you can’t always count on them so I think that they have unbelievable pumpkin insurance at every single position you know if if George is the first guy in a playoff rotation and

He’s just getting run off the floor on the other end and he’s getting attacked okay maybe you turn to Dean if uh if the two big lineup is is just the spacing isn’t working and you’re not getting enough points okay Jarrett maybe goes down to 22 24 minutes from his normal 30

And you play more George and Dean if Carris is spacing out and the jumper isn’t hitting okay Sam you’re up like they have a lot of if if uh the the starting lineup isn’t defending well enough at the point of attack okay Isaac we’re gonna give you more minutes like I

Just feel like for all the criticism of JB bicker staff in that postseason series and like there were things I took issue with don’t get me wrong I I had my own criticisms and and thoughts I don’t think enough people have acknowledged like I just don’t think he

Had that many levers to pull with that with a a postc consolidation trade uh roster that you know they made the Donathan Mitchell trade at the end of the off season a lot of people don’t remember that it was like pretty close to Media de like all the other moves had

Been made so like they didn’t have a roster that was like made for what they had become I feel like this roster is much closer to that uh one thing that I’ve said uh a lot and and was my goal for the off season was the role player

The fit and the depth were so rough and they had so few Styles they could play that I don’t think I could even evaluate the core four guys because it’s like okay does the does the starting line did the two big thing not work on offense or was Isaac OK coro’s

Man always coming down and tagging because they weren’t guarding him you know like like does Jarrett really not be able to work against the short r or did or was Danny Green our seventh man like you know like you know coming off a destroyed knee like so I I wanted from

This roster to and from this front office to build a roster that allowed me to properly evaluate the core guy the core four guys at an individual level and their fit together long term and I think this roster has that because they should they should be able to be

Chameleons they should be able to play a lot of different styles I don’t know how I don’t know if how many of those styles are a pluses and like they might run into that against some teams that just have certain styles that they’re like work Killers with this and you can’t do

Anything about it like I do see that as a potential but like they can at least be a BB Plus playing like seven different ways and that’s that’s a big win I think and you touched on this a little bit part of the downside of this run is that it’s turned the discourse

Into well the Cavs are just better off with one big or the D they lose to Detroit tonight discourse is going to be running wild Dan what are we like what will you I so there’s two parts I think there’s legitimate concerns to have about this team on offense and they

Might have addressed it with some of the players that are there because you mentioned the Isaac aoro stuff now having Max Drew there or Sam Merill that’s going to be different about how they can defend the two big lineups we just haven’t been able to seen enough of

It so one I I think we can all agree that levelhead the discourse there is just premature like let’s just revisit it after this playoff run if everyone’s actually healthy and see what happens but what actually be watching for or what are you maybe actually concerned about as you’re looking at these four

Now coming back together and and playing together for what hopefully will be an actual sample size I think there’s really only one thing that is really appropriate to angst about and maybe it’s just because it’s the one thing I’m anging about um so so I’m giving myself

More leeway than the other angers out there in the world but I do worry about their point of attack defense uh this was my concern the second they sign Tru which is like okay you now have three volume three point shooters to help buoy the offense because it doesn’t really

Matter if Evan and Jared don’t shoot if the other three are getting up like 27 threes between the three of them which I think they can do like those three should be high volume three-point Shooters all three of them however we looked at you know I I praised their rebound

Rate earlier since those guys went down and I do think part of it is that Jared Allen and Evan Moy were having to clean up a lot of BS to start the year on that side of the ball they were having to go out uh go come up and help because guys

Were getting blown by because Darius can be as fundamental as he wants he’s still a small guy uh and Donovan is never going to be an elite on ball Defender so it’s like all right Max you’re gonna be our our wing stopper that’s a little

Scary you’re going to be who we throw on Trey young you know so like it’s kind of I what I felt this season represented and and maybe that’ll change now that they’ve learn had to learn all these hard lessons with these injuries but I was most interested in like they kind of

Took the two big and the too small thing to their logical extremes like if we’re gonna have two bigs that don’t shoot then our top then our other three guys got to shoot the crap out of the ball and they got to shoot it a lot uh and

Then on the defensive end if we’re going to if and if we’re going to play these two bigs that can’t shoot they got to be able to clean up everything that’s that that is our that’s going to be our belief system and we saw Utah try to do

It with one person with Rudy and like boan bonovich as the four like they were like that was clearly that didn’t work that was too too far in the Spectrum but what if we had two Elite Defenders that can be in charge of cleaning up for the

Other three so that I feel like was kind of their gamble the front office’s gamble this summer um and like we just haven’t had enough time to see how it goes It’s funny their defense has actually been good it’s their offense that has been a lot worse than what it

Was with Isaac Loro at the three for that fiveman unit so I would presume you know call me crazy but I think Max dreu should help your off your starting fives offense and and could part that interject but it’s like they were clearly like they’ve experimented with

Stuff with Evan Moy and like that could just be part of that learning curve as well and how many first of all how many Gam is those five play together like 10 this is their 12th Game of the Year tonight and not a ton of minutes either

So like they just haven’t gotten a chance to do that experiment but I still think that is the core of their experiment because like Justin my co-host will rightfully like he’s been getting a little grumpy with how much people are focusing on the starting five like he’s like and he’s right like if

You’re worried about the people those four together last year by the way they had like an offensive rating that was like almost 122 yeah so uh but like what he would say is like if you’re worried about two bigs congratulations they only do that together 16 minutes a game you’re four

Out the other 32 uh so like there is a bit of over indexing on who starts and and how those lineups work but I do at a fundamental level believe your best five has got to be a killer like you look at every great team over the in the history

Of the league their best five has been really freaking good so I do think it matters even though it might be over indexed on and like I want to see how that experiment goes turns out uh not a great start against the Pistons who have 118 points but the Cavs it looks like

They might get out of it so but uh but yeah like it’s one of those things I’m just I find it super fascinating and for all the things I feel like I didn’t get to learn last year hopefully now that the team’s healthy I feel like I’m going

To get to learn a lot about the limits of what these guys can do yeah I tend to be concerned about Darius garin’s three-point volume there’s definitely just Club brother there’s definitely the way defenses can guard them with the two bigs I think Jared Allen by the way

Doesn’t receive enough credit for like his spatial awareness on and off the ball when playing with evmy that’ll help and it comes back to you mentioned the levers to pull when you look at who their most youth fifth player was last year like aside from isoro it was they

Had jedy Osman or cus Levert now it’s like well if you have a healthy Dean Wade out of that equation or just two new players in Max dreu and Sam Merill like it changes the Dynamics of what can do I still ultimately think like a lot

Of it might come down to Evan Mo’s own offensive development it feels like to me he goes through extended stretches of just indecision and I’d like to see him be more decisive make quicker decisions especially when he’s moving inside inside the arc and that feels like it

Could be a big turning point I in the regular season by the way I just think this team at healthy will always win a ton of games y it’s the playoffs where I think that might matter the most I think Evan is cursed by too many too

Many choices you know like it’s one of those things where he’s so he can do a little bit of everything and like you know I talked when you asked why the stretch has been so good and I talked about how everything’s been kind of simple everyone has their job Evan

Nothing about Evan’s game is crazy simple you know like part of what makes him a special Prospect is the the passing the decision- making the ball handling the perspective touch and jump shooting which isn’t quite there yet so I feel like Evan is at his best when he

Does just get to be decisive I just think sometimes In fairness to him if we want him to experiment with growing his game and doing all the things we want him to do then we might have to be okay with some indecision and to watch his processor work you know it’s like when

You open up a laptop and you you like you’ve got too many programs open you start hearing that fan were like that’s what I see when when Evan is having to think too much but like that I part of me wonderers like maybe we’ll all feel

Better if he just only does deci iive things but like is that actually the best serve for his development I’m not sure that’s a fair point um I’ll fold these two last topics into one the trade deadline is coming up they are probably the team in the league that’s least

Likely to do anything significant just because so many of their keys guys have been injured they’re so deep now is there like a type of player you would like to see them Target and I’ll also fold this into if you need to just get off your chest as to why like the

Donovan Mitchell trade talk is so stupid at this moment and does there ever come a point is it like let’s see do we have to revisit this depending on how the postseason ends and that’s when the level of concern around Donan Mitchell’s future can rise or is it very much sort

Of right now not within the organization or within the fan base that it’s just not a high level of concern moving forward it’s these National people that are just like drooling over the idea of more player movement well I’ll knock out the Donnie stuff quickly like I do think

It’s gonna it’s gonna linger you know it’s going to be a national story because he’s kind of the most eligible bachelor on the P prospective market right now um and like you know of course Cleveland just exists to feed these other more glamorous places um but on a

More serious note like I just see you see all these perspective buyers the Knicks go trade their assets for OG uh the heat go trade some assets for Terry roier like it feels like all the places that you kind of hear link to him just kind of aren’t that palatable of options

Or they’re they’re looking in other places so with the team playing as well as they are and with some of these options drying up like I just I don’t think anyone is interested in it and I’m glad I I have more fun when we actually get to talk about what we’re seeing on

The court and what we’re seeing on the court is a crazy bought in dude who is working really really hard like you know that’s annoying about all this though is the reporting is or reporting respect is never attached to well Donan Mitchell wants this it’s just Miami or New York

And I probably disagree with you on the assets New York has available I think the bigger thing is just like Donan Mitchell and jayen Brunson like what is the defense of that why want Mitchell I don’t think the Knicks want to do that so um you know ultimately I

Think he like I don’t think Donovan is the kind of guy who would who’s going to request a trade like I you know as far as I know he still hasn’t ever admitted asking out of Utah um I just think he really cares about his image and cares

About how he is represented in like within his local market and I think that’s awesome by the way I think that’s exactly what players should do like if we’re all going to ask to buy into this Noble lie and we’re all rooting for laundry like we might as well play the

Part you know we might as well play the part so like if he cares about about you know being a good representative of the Cavaliers and representative of the place he’s playing that’s freaking awesome to be to to me at least you know he goes to like local high school games

Just to support the local scene and things like that very quickly people should want this because they should want teams like the Cavaliers to make the aggressive play that they did for Donovan Mitchell in the first place so that when we’re talking about these players actually being available it’s

Not just the Knicks Lakers heat Rin cycle repeat yeah like what a what a nice thing it is that that this has happened so uh I I’ve really been pleased with him and uh and what you know I feel like with a player like that you can just see by watching the game

And you see a guy who’s Crazy invested right now and working really really hard uh recruited guys in the offseason so if he leaves he leaves but I’m not in any hurry to make any moves with regards to the rest of the trade deadline I think

You’re spot on man uh they have the the a weird cocktail of too many helpful guys that aren’t like crazy young AKA crazy valuable around the league uh and they don’t have any really significant draft assets so it’s like the places that they could upgrade or that like archetypes that they could

Look to upgrade like I you know an example that floats around Cavs Twitter a lot is Dorian finy Smith he’s kind of he kind of is that that Dean Wade George Yang mashup of a guy who guards well but also shoots a lot of Threes And you know

Has been trusted to do so in big moments so the Cavs don’t have the ability to get him because you know the Nets would want a couple first but let’s say they could is he so much better than the best version of Dean Wade and George Nang

That you’d be willing to include one of those guys and a guy like Caris LeVert and lose all that BL playmaking and ball handling like you’re just kind of having to do like they’re in a spot where they probably need to do like a three for one

But none of their three are like guys that teams are like salivating over even though I’m sure no team would be like we got Dean Wade that sucks no that like everyone would like having Dean Wade but he’s not like you’re not winning a press release by trading for

Dean Wade yeah so like I just don’t see I I feel like almost every player on the Cavs right now their value to the cabs outpaces their value on the open market okay and if that’s the case I just don’t see the move uh I and it’s not I’m like

Any other fan I love trades they’re super fun I’m on the trade machine all the time I don’t think I’ve ever been on a in in a deadline this close to the deadline I don’t think I’ve ever opened the trade trade machine less because I just I can’t figure out something that

Would even interest me let alone like be a smart trade for two teams yeah you need to get probably a seventh guy is what it is and that’s hard to do like you know oh he’s our seventh best player in the playoffs and that’s just that’s really hard to do

When you have such minimal assets and then as you mentioned when the players that are inhouse mean more to you or more valuable to you than they’re going to be on the the outside Market I have kept you six minutes longer than I said I would do you have anything else that

You think that I missed or that you need to get off your chest before I let you scadaddle oh I’ve been doing quite quite a few long monologues so if anyone’s kept me long it’s me buddy and uh no I think I think we I think we tackled it

All um so are you able just to tell us our listeners where they can find you and all the Fantastic work that you do if they’re not following you already yeah absolutely you can follow our podcast at Chas down pod um uh and all of our shows are live on the official

Cavaliers YouTube channel so uh just go over to that page hit us subscribe and you’ll see us live after not most games but you know about half of them uh we go twice a week so uh we love doing post game stuff it’s really fun and uh hope

You guys join us there the link to where you can subscribe to the chase down will be in the podcast and YouTube description thank you so much for your time Carter I will pest you again in the future and fully expect you to say no

That time no no no it’s only if my children ruin it thank you so much man I’ll talk to you soon thank You

Dan is joined by Carter Rodriguez (@Carter_Shade) from “The Chase Down Podcast” (@ChaseDownPod) to discuss all things Cleveland Cavaliers—including their ascent without Darius Garland and Evan Mobley, All-Star development from Jarrett Allen, the future of Donovan Mitchell and MUCH MORE. SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHASE DOWN POCAST HERE: https://t.co/FMzmv44r4K. CHAPTERS BELOW.

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CHAPTERS⬇️
0:00 – INTRO
1:31 – The factors driving Cleveland’s shorthanded success
8:38 – Continued evolution of Jarrett Allen
14:02 – Donovan Mitchell juggling different gears
19:19 – Spotlighting “The Others”
19:37 – Caris LeVert
21:11 – Sam Merrill
22:49 – Georges Niang
24:53 – Isaac Okoro
27:04 – Craig Porter Jr.
31:27 – Max Strus
32:21 – Dean Wade
34:58 – The rotation at full strength
38:21 – The fit of Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen
45:02 – Cleveland’s trade deadline approach, The future of Donovan Mitchell

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