Chase Down Podcast Live, presented by fubo: The Kings of Cleveland

Chase Down Podcast Live, presented by fubo: The Kings of Cleveland

Oh [Applause] A This crowd Rises to its feet Theo slammed it home garlet left wing free ball perfect the lane lock the mly pow and Allen blocked the shot at The Rim Pow with the left hand and a foul welcome to the chase down podcast part of the Cav media family I’m your

Host Justin Rowan the chase down is presented by fubo the official streaming partner of the Cavs watch over 350 channels of live sports and TV including ble Sports Ohio without cable there’s no cost and no commitment try for free at fubotv.com Cavs the Cleveland Cavaliers

Have won 14 of their last 15 games they are second in the Eastern Conference Garland’s getting healthy Mo’s getting healthy and from where I’m sitting things are pretty damn bright joining me today is my co-host Carter Rodriguez Carter how you doing buddy ah how dare

You I wanted that I wanted my awe to be excited but also disgusted that’s how I feel about that bit but uh no I feel awesome man I was like I was trying to figure out what the heck we were going to talk about cuz it’s just so fun it’s

Just like like I I don’t know if we can just have a party for an hour uh but we can try I I think this is going to be one of those oh my God that’s neat kind of things uh I I think there’s still constructive things to talk about things

That uh We’ve noticed uh you know since we’ve last recorded we had a pretty fun game against the San Antonio Spurs where Victor wanyama and Evan Moy went head-to-head uh Mooby getting the better of wemi in that game um I I think people that overreacted when Chad had a good

Game against Mo earlier in the season um should have the exact same energy the other way uh when when Moy goes out there and does it to wemi because you know I I think most people would say wem’s the the better Prospect wemi is the guy that can be you know the best

Player in the league but Evan Moy showed you hey if there’s going to be a league full of these guys you got you’re going to want to have an Evan Moy and you’re going to hope that he’s going to be the type of player that can get the better

Of those matchups when the hell is Evan Moy and then you go against a Sacramento Kings offense that historically has given the Cavs so many problems and even in this game Carter I want to know if you felt the same sensation even though the Cavs were up consistently 15 points throughout this

Game I was sitting there going man this king’s offense is Unstoppable man this is pretty man they’re shot making like even when you’re contesting they’re hitting tough shots I’m like this is just such a great offense to watch and then it clicked for me in my head while

I am fawning over the king’s offense the Cavs offense is going out there and outscoring them consistently by 15 to 30 points on the night he’s a bad man and that is one of the major reasons yeah I mean they were uh the the Cavaliers offense in this game was just

Filthy I mean they were creating problems that the Kings just didn’t have the Personnel to solve um you know and it didn’t matter kind of what the lineup configurations were the Cavs were generating just an outrageous amount of clean looks either at the three or or

From three or at the rim no matter whether they had the two out there whether sabonis was out there whether Trey ly was out there whether javil McGee was out there um it they just were so darn good on the offens end of the floor and then even on the defensive end

Of the floor I thought they were awesome uh in this game they they yes the kings are electric uh but the Kings got 44 shots they didn’t shoot poorly they made 17 of them for about a 39% night from the from that part of the field but Fox

Murray and sabonis combined for 41 points like I I I it’s I have no way of looking this up cuz I’m not as Savvy as others but I would guess that’s one of their lowest outputs of the season um and when you’re grading on the Sacramento Kings electric offense curve

110 is a great great night they only let him get to the line 12 times how many free throw attempts did the king starters have Justin uh I don’t know eight zero hero boy oh boy sabonis is a foul merant podcasters yeah sabonis is a foul Merchant Fox is a foul Merchant these

Are guys who really pressure you and and when I say that I don’t mean they’re grifters I mean they are crazy athletic if you’re fox or crazy physical if you’re sabonis and the fact that I thought the Cavs did a wonderful job of playing straight up uh using their their

Physical gifts to their advantage you know you give Isaac a COR a lot of credit at the point of attack but man the two bigs really really stifled them there was just not a lot of easy looks to be had sabonis had a great playmaking

Game he had 15 assists but he had five turnovers as well so the Cavs were just kind of everywhere uh on in this game and yes it was close and it felt competitive because a lead of 15 against a team this explosive just isn’t that

Big of a lead you know it’s not 15 points is not the same lead no matter who you’re playing but the fact that every time the Kings started to get to 12 10 13 the Cavs would come out and just generate two great looks um there

Was no there was no Panic in the Cavs offense no matter who they had on the floor I was just so so pleased with just how calmly they they killed the Kings tonight they they did and honestly they did it in a way that I think you and I

Have been calling for for a long time like as the graduated from rebuilding team to team that’s surprisingly competitive to where they were at last year the thing we wanted to see is the Cavs developing an identity and sticking to that identity regardless of who their opponent is not you know breaking down

Your defensive scheme to overcompensate for one player individually like the fact that they allow Jared Allen to basically guard sabona straight up understanding yeah there’s going to be times where we’ll dig in or you’ll you’ll provide like a little flash like quick double and stuff but we’re not

Going to break our defensive scheme to try to take him out of the game that to me is really encouraging because I I think one of the things that the Cavs did wrong in the playoffs was overreacting to Jaylen Brunson who didn’t even have that efficient of a

Series and on the offensive end of the Court the Cavs didn’t get scared by the fact that the Kings play at such a uptempo pace and they’re so capable of going out there and knocking down threes they didn’t say hey you know let’s lower the number of possession let’s let’s

Slow things down we have a 15 16o lead let’s value every single possession and make them beat us in the half court it’s no we got to stop we’re going out and running we’re attacking their defense before it can get set we’re going to try to slow them down and keep them

Attacking our half court defense but we can do that without slowing down offensively and I I think that’s the type of growth that you want to see you want to see them do that not just against the Washington Wizards of the world you want to see that against Elite

Offenses or Elite defenses where you are sticking to your identity regardless of who your opponent is and that is as much about their offensive discipline as their defensive discipline like yeah they ran um but they ran in a way and they pushed in a way that that never

Left them out of whack that’s why you don’t like you know coaches that you know when they’re going going up against a team that’s faster than them they always try to slow things down in turtle is because they’re like hey these guys practice this all the time we’re not

We’re not used to this and you know we’ll run into spots where we have five guys under our own free throw line when a shot goes up and they’ll murder us for it um the Cavs were really really good in transition defense tonight especially in that fourth quarter the Kings had an

81 offensive rating in the fourth quarter the Cavs put the clamps on them Justin um and and I just thought their their structure their belief system their organization on the offensive end was the reason they were able to play so fast because they never got out of

Control they never got so baited into the race that they got out of control but that didn’t mean they couldn’t play fast they couldn’t push the ball and you know that’s one spot where it’s really nice having Evan back because Evan can just grab and go he had 13 defensive rebounds tonight Cavs

Out blew a tire there Cavs outrebounded the Kings by about 10 I believe um and those grabbing goes just really really test uh A team’s transition defense especially a team like the Kings with a guy like sabonis where they have to be real careful about what matchups he

Lands himself in so I just thought the Cavs were really really clinical and you know on a night where you make 233s or whatever it ended up being sometimes those can just feel like bomb away nights where everything went right I just don’t think the Cavs ever got over

Their skis on either end of the allall they just you know maybe there’s one stretch where I thought Moy was kind of breaking things to go attack JaVale cuz he got him a couple times and then you know was just having fun out there but other than that I thought they were just

So kind of Ruthless on on the on both sides of the ball and just I just don’t think the Kings had fun at any point tonight they always felt like they were you know again they were cisus pushing the boulder up the hill yeah and I think the encouraging thing that we’ve seen

Throughout this stretch and now even more so with with Mo and Garland back is the Cavs can beat you so many different ways like it they’re Relentless the number of guys that can generate a good look for uh their teammates is through the roof when you talk about that

Starting lineup like there is a ton of playmaking in that starting unit now that Donovan Mitchell is playing the best basketball of his career playing like you know a true combo guard true point guard at times the the ball just has so much energy you have 22 assists

From your starting five and frankly it could have been a lot higher like Darius I I think obviously he’s probably taking the most time I don’t think he was particularly good against the Spurs at all like I I thought he was basically invisible in that game but even in that

Game he was generating assist opportunities uh for his teammates and coming into tonight even though he was only playing 22 minutes T night he’s generating nine potential assists I wouldn’t be surprised if if that number was close to like 15 tonight because the number of times that he was spraying in

Out to Shooters which is a great thing to see um the the number of times his passes led to an open three from another teammate was really encouraging to see as well and you know Moy out there getting seven assists because the defense is reacting to his ability to

Create off the dribble like that’s the encouraging thing when you talk about those grab and goes and also just him putting the ball on the floor and getting to the rim effect L that’s how you create space even without teams like really being afraid of your jumper

Because if you let Moy get ahead of steam where he’s sizing you up and he’s able to Euro Step around a long Defender like javil McGee or a wanyama and score at The Rim like that is really really encouraging and that generates gravity because you want to get up on him so

That he doesn’t have a head of steam when you attack and one of the things the cows did so effectively last year was generate space without Shooters on the floor um we we went over it in the offseason where they were top three basically in shot quality from the rim

From mid-range from three-point overall shot quality halfcourt shot quality without a lot of shooter so now that you’re seeing that same kind of those same Concepts but with more ways to attack with more guys that can initiate and more shooting you’re seeing this offense hit a level that I don’t think

We’ve ever seen from it yeah and again they just and they haven’t even been shooting that well uh you know uh D _ Lain on Twitter who is a a chase down pod member who is a uh who is a data analyst in his free time uh tweeted out

Kind of a a shot plot of kind of where the Cavs were you know are on volume and then you know respective to League average on their three-point shooting and you know many of the Cavs are shooting well below their you know their standard you know Max stru has been in a

Terrible slum George Nang is shooting the worst uh in his career from three Darius Garland uh I I pulled some stats is shooting the worst he’s ever shot from three and so the fact that they’re looking this good mostly not shooting that well like on a night like tonight

Like The Vision just gets so clear it’s like oh we can generate Great Looks and our Personnel is built to knock them down at a high volume and like that is that’s the dream man a space floor with guys who can kill you both at the rim

And from three and you’re you still have that break glass in case of emergency mid-range game from Darius and Donan and Carris Levert like they are three level scorers right now uh no matter kind of what their lineup configuration is another thing worth noting 36 assists to eight turnovers tonight like the ball

Was really really really popping and they were their spacing and execution made their reads easy like the Cavs weren’t having to squeeze a lot of passes in tight Windows tonight they just were they were playing Sacramento like a f a fiddle it was super fun yeah and I thought DG did a

Really good job of taking care of the ball um there was just the one turnover in the fourth quarter I didn’t like uh the one in the first Allan had a mismatch uh down by the rim he threw it into him Allan kind of bobbled the ball

And uh you know that gets attributed to to Garland because Allen never had possession but I I I like this game from him and the encouraging thing is like to me it’s clear that despite how well they’re playing right now there is such obvious room for growth as Darius gets

Better as Evan gets better like I don’t even though we’re we’re seeing like the the game we saw from Moy against wemi or uh Garland coming out in the first game or or tonight and shooting well from the floor I don’t think we’re going to see like the best version of these guys

Until after the All-Star break it’s going to take them some time to to get in shape to to get uh back to form but even despite that we are seeing like you said the vision’s becoming so much clearer now that their minute restriction they were both able to play

27 minutes tonight we did not have a single lineup where we didn’t have at least one of the guards and one of the bigs on the floor and when you look at some of those you know closer games against Detroit Memphis and whatnot the opport OPP unities those teams had to to

Cut into the Cavs lead came in those lineups where there wasn’t at least two of the core four on there and now that you’re always having those lineups you see the depth you feel the depth that the Cavs have their starting lineup is effective they come at you in waves

They’re able to to you know space the floor even more as they stagger it’s really encouraging and you look at this five game sample since since Moy came back against the Clippers um the offensive rating 122.6mi defensive rating 109.5 that is better than the offensive rating that they had in that stretch

Without Garland and Moy of 120.4 and it’s better than the defensive rating of 109.5 that they had we’re seeing already this team play at such a damn high level and there’s such an obvious another gear that we can get to as those two get more comfortable yeah I

Mean uh one thing we talked about with this team uh as those guys came back was like what we were really excited about to take away from the stretch with them gone was like hey you just have more lineups that you know you can count on and it just kind

Of felt like putting on a nice warm jacket you know seeing some of these these you know seeing that starting lineup while Darius and Evan were out just play a seven minute shift and just absolutely you know clamp down on the Kings or you know subbing in Caris for

On some of those minutes and you know like the Cavs just have so many lineups right now like sometimes when you get hot during a stretch where you’re missing some guys you have people step up and then they kind of Wilt back down once the Stars can’t come in like how

Many times did we see that happen you know when LeBron would miss a 510 game window you know like it’s just so hard to play with that guy you know you have to play in such a specific way and like just seeing that Isaac okoro is still coming out there

And just absolutely destroying dearon Fox on some of these possessions Sam Merill comes out you know he gets 11 minutes JB’s playing 10 guys right now he only gets 11 minutes goes three of four from three and and you know helps helps keep the Kings at Bay um Dean Wade

Goes two of two and plays awesome defense and had both had quick trigger threes that that were like semi contested I was thrilled to see that out of those two and it was really cool Dean had two assists tonight so it’s not like you know he had a playmaking toward a

Force but he did he made a couple awesome choices where he was sprinting up the court in semi- transition and you know he was catching it with the intent to shoot and Defenders were flying at him and he was able to actually pump drive and make easy passes he found

Donovan on a trailer on at least one of those and like those are the kind of plays that like a quick trigger earns you like when when guys think you’re going to shoot they’re going to fly at you and so you know every role player is still playing well you know like Nang

Had another rough shooting game but still was very helpful in in his minutes and like the depth just they just are a 10 Deep team right now and and it the optionality that provides them is so good and more than anything I just feel like both the Spurs and the Kings must

Have thought like well where’s my lineup that I get to make a run against you know they just feel so relentless right now uh in terms of like they just have a lot of lineups who can kill you in a lot of different ways so no matter who you’re running out there

It’s like right now the Cavs just have 48 minutes and most teams even good ones only have 40 to 42 of lineups they trust so those eight minutes mean a lot and there’s a reason that every single team player on the Cavaliers tonight went positive plus minus that actually you

Know played significant minutes MH we’re we’re getting a consistent Elite 48 minutes from the Cavs and just like we get 48 minutes of elite conferencing from Zoom support for this podcast and the following message comes from Zoom half a million businesses Connect using Zoom a single platform for phone chat

Workspaces events apps and video Zoom enables real-time collaboration for teams on the globe Zoom how the world connects Carter I I think one of the important things when you talk about those guys remaining empowered you can just see the level of communication that’s happening uh on on the court um

Offensively and defensively these guys are talking after every single possession they are showing mental toughness in that when you know they have a streak that or a couple minute stretch that it’s not working well or someone’s making mistakes they’re pointing out okay what what was what caused the miscommunication what do we

Need to do you can see them talking on both ends of the floor you can hear you know under the basket um Allen’s voice booming calling out things defensively I I just think the accountability that you’re seeing from this team they are all holding one another accountable they

Are getting on each other for passing up open threes they are all pulling in the same direction and a lot of credit needs to go to the players for for buying in to that extent but I I think a lot of credit also has to go to JB bicker staff

Cuz there has been a lot of noise whether it’s about Donovan whether it’s about JB whe whether every single time a player has been out and the Cavs play well that player gets thrown into you know trade conversations online like the the discourse has been so toxic at times

And there’s such anxiety because this is such an important season for the Cavs and there’s such high expectations and that comes with it I’m not going to sit here and complain about it that’s what you sign up for but they have that inter internal confidence in what they’re

Doing the internal confidence in how well they work as a group and they haven’t let kind of these ruts affect them and I I think a lot of credit needs to to go to the players and JB for the patience they’ve shown over this stretch yeah and they haven’t let these ruts

Affect their belief at an individual level either and that matters perhaps just as much you know like the idea that like it it’s really easy to see a guy like Max shooting 32% uh in his last you know 10 10 or so games and go uh I’m not going to I’m not

Going to pass him he’s open in the corner but he’s just not it right now maybe I just need to go get my own bucket so the but like they’re not doing that you know he’s still getting to get shots up and then Max comes out and

Rewards them tonight you goes six of 10 from three makes a billion winning plays when the kings are are trying to to make dents in the runs you know poking the ball out twice on sabonis offensive rebounds to to get easy buckets like you know that that L that believe in

Themselves when the outside noise has been so volatile that is you know I talk I’m gonna I’m going to read the Tweet again Justin I’m G to read the Tweet again but when they got when all these injuries came out I tweeted a disastrous day for

The Cavs in a season with limited margin for more pain a true test of culture depth and resilience incoming like the there it is that is your culture that is your resilience to to be like hey this player is not playing his best basketball but like we’re not stupid we

Know he’s good you know um you know I think so much about that Donovan quote where people were asking like you know how are you going to integrate these guys back in are you worried basically and he’s like I don’t want to be a wise ass but like we know what we’re talking

About like like you know so it it’s so relieving to know that like these guys do have that faith in each other um when there’s been a lot of reasons for that Faith to be tested you know that playoff series those kind playoff series like the ones the Cavs had against the Knicks

Those have shattered teams in the past yep um you know coming out banged up and playing mediocre basketball on the back end of that like would have been very easy to to to have let that kind of Splinter and guys start just going I just got to do

It myself so the fact that they’re they are so steadfast in their belief in each other at that level it’s just really cool man and like this is the kind of team that you want to root for that you beg to root for as a fan is like they

They AR it’s not just fun when they’re blowing teams off the floor though that is very fun don’t get me wrong but the what they’re doing isn’t affected by the outside noise and that’s like that is the number one Testament to culture resilience depth Etc so just Co us to the whole

Organization man yeah and you know I I think a lot of credit needs to to go to to Donovan uh in particular because when you talk when you talk about like guys saying okay I’m going to do it myself there was a lot of that in his career in

Utah like when I was initially hesitant about the idea Mitchell coming on board um like that was one of the big things it’s okay how is he going to work within the team concept and I think he is steadily gotten better and better when it comes to to being a playmaker when it

Comes to being a Defender like I think he’s a legitimate plus defender on a consistent basis this season like we saw him lock in at times last year but I I think he’s just playing his ass off defensively and like that makes this work like when you talk about oh can the

The two guard uh back Court work yeah when you you have a a 63 shooting guard you’re giving up some size there uh he obviously has the big wingspan but if he’s actually locking in and committing to the defensive end you have fewer concerns there because you look at last

Year Elite defense with both of the guards on the court you look at this year a 108 defensive rating that’s by like that is better than their defense during the stretch uh with without Garland and Moy that is better than their stretch since they’ve come back

Like that is an elite defense with those two on the court and even though you’re giving up some theoretical size what is actually occurring on the basketball court will always matter more than you know the archetypes and what theoretically does and doesn’t work on paper and you can make unconventional

Lineups work when you have this level of buyin and I I think what he’s done on the defensive end is really impressive but I think when you talk about that up and down stretch where nobody was really healthy right like even in the like 10 games that they got together before

Garland and Moy went down Allen was on a minute restriction for the majority of it uh Garland and Mitchell were dealing with their hamstring injuries Garland’s hand like all there’s so many factors going on there and there were times where I thought Mitchell got tunnel

Vision uh he kind of tried to do it all himself and you know those are those natural tendencies and those habits that are easy to fall back on and I think he is really rounded a corner where he is playing the best basketball of his career he is playing at an MVP level

He’s playing at a first team all NBA level and I I think that kind of leadership that makes it easier for him to go out there and tell guys okay I’m doing this I’m buying in everybody else Buy in and do your part right like for for Garland when you talk about fighting

Those natural habits it’s hey like sometimes I’m just looking to get other guys involved like I’m I’m trying to to make the the right play I’m I’m not trying to step on any toes here and he needs to be more assertive right so like everybody’s got those those natural

Habits that they fall back on and it’s understanding what is needed for me so that we can have the best possible Collective success and I feel like they’re all pulling in that direction I think the other thing about Donovan and well said on all these things in all the

Ways that uh he has been excellent the one thing I’ll add is that look around the league it is with the way the league is structured with the way offenses are thriving it is not hard for Superstar players to quiet quit on their teams and still and still put up great numbers

It’s just not you know like like if they if if Donovan were just to say me Lost season but I still I’m still still going to go out put on a show for people uh get my 25 to 30 a night um and you know and make the splash plays so people

Still know how freaking good I am he could do that and I you know and only people who are really watching closely would notice so the fact that he has not done that and you still see him flying out to King Shooters on Closeouts and all those things where it just would

Have been easy to do that just be like well uh crap Lost season but I’m just going to work on my game on the stuff I know I need to work on and I’m just not going to be that pressed he’s so pressed he’s you know he’s clapping for the ball

Like when when when games are starting to slip away he’s really really his give a damn meter is high and we talked early in this Cavs rebuild about how Kobe Alin was banking on good dudes who love basketball who really care about winning and that was that was the archetype of

Player he was chasing and sometimes when you’re you’re doing that that’s all well and good you go trade for a star and a lot of those things go out the window like they got another star that has that same belief system that’s that fits with the core of their team and that’s why

Things are working so well that’s why their culture is maintained and that’s why they’re the hottest team in the NBA yeah and and I’m always going to appreciate the thing I’m going to really appreciate about Donovan like when I’m looking at his Cavs tenure we have

Always been able to get the best sense of how well this works as a core because he’s so bought in right like there there’s no real question about oh is he giving 100% like this archetype this team build we are going to get the best data points in terms of does this core

Four work because he is giving 110% effort at all times like he is completely bought in um obviously like none of these guys are are perfect players far from it uh I think there’s still a ton of growth and a ton of reasons to be excited about uh where

They can go from here but they’ve already had so much kind of collective success in their time together and like when you talk about okay the Cavs take a chance trading for Donovan Mitchell wasn’t where he was expecting to go uh he readily admits that but then we have

Like Tony Jones on the podcast right away and he says you know like for all the conversation about location winning is the most important thing to him and I think he’s backed that up in terms of how he’s played because he has given absolutely everything to try to make

This work and I I think it’s really paying off and like if for whatever reason it didn’t pan out I would never feel like I got Short change from the Donovan Mitchell experience because I I feel like we have gotten our all from him and and like or his all and that’s

The most important thing like as a fan that’s the kind of stuff that I really appreciate because I believe in this score I think that this can really really work and he’s doing everything in his power to make it work yeah I’ve been giving it my all too Justin don’t don’t

Short Change us we’re giving it our all as well but no uh Donovan I mean he’s just been the the the star that we’ve that you know we we’ve begged for you know um he’s not perfect but man uh has he been just so damn Elite and I again I

Just kind of keep going back to the fact that like I you just wondered if this team was going to be in the basketball wilderness coming out of that out of those finals runs and they were for just a little bit and the fact that they’ve pulled together this kind of run with

This team mostly homegrown and and and you know made with sa Savvy moves you know not a lot of politicking like that’s the thing cuz like that was the great thing about having LeBron on your team is like he’s going to call some guys and get get get you some buyout

Guys or some vet minimum guys that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise like this is all through Savvy uh smarts culture consistency structure um man is JB a coach of the year front runner because if not I’m GNA lose my mind I mean he I I think he should be I think it’s

Between uh him and dagnal in OKC I I think Mark started off the year so hot and OKC’s been so good that that’s going going to be the the front runner in the voters but you know we we’ve seen how late season pushes can can change things

That not to go back to Scotty Barnes but I I still got trauma there uh the Cavs have one fewer loss than OKC that’s CRA that OKC has had great health like that is really really impressive to me and um like the thing that just excites me so

Obviously we’ve talked about how the schedule gets lighter and you know what I want to own up to something cuz we’re big on accountability on this year podcast I message you Carter prior to this game yesterday saying that man I really feel like this could be either a

One-2 stretch or two in one stretch depending on what happens with this Kings game like I just feel like that upcoming back to back with the Cav playing like eight straight games on the road that’s or with travel between them that’s a really tough thing to go

Through man the cast getting this win in this kind of fashion like it it starts making you puff your chest out a little bit more and for being the the schedule watching guy I don’t know why I overlooked uh the Thursday game versus Brooklyn being on trade deadline so

Brooklyn might be in a tough situation there that was kind of the one that I had my eye on as a loss but the Cavs really like they have a chance to make go on a big run and obviously you know Joel embiid’s uh health is taking a turn

For the worst I I hope he is back by the end of the season because um I’m just always rooting for for teams to be healthy and if we’re going to go out there and beat teams I I want to beat the best versions of them um but that

Makes the C schedule even lighter because they they’ve got three matchups with them coming up and I I think one of the things that wasn’t talked about enough throughout that run that Cleveland had without these guys is the value of continuity and it’s what gives me confidence that you know there’s

Another gear Beyond this like that starting lineup that that we had with these guys out had not really played together prior to the injuries and it’s in the top 22 in terms of minutes played for fiveman groups and like over a 16 game SC stretch they jumped up into the

Top 22 for like total minutes for a lineup you start to get kind of that second nature feel of where guys are going to be what your responsibility is within a lineup and I I just think that you know there’s such an opportunity for as these guys get healthier as they get

More time together I just think it’s going to improve from what we’ve seen here like even though growth isn’t always linear like I I think there’s enough indicator here whether it’s what you’ve pointed out with the shot luck that hey the Cavs aren’t even even though they’re generating Great Looks

They’re not shooting like at an outrageous level or anything like that like there’s so many indicators that there’s still something else left here that it’s worth getting excited over yeah it it really is um and I they they have a chance to really make a push here

Um and the the schedule is they’re they’re through the easiest part of their schedule at this point once they get through the All-Star break but like they are they’re just they should I think they’re going to be favored in their next five or six consecutive games

You know like yeah they are they just feel you know just I was kind of just looking up and down again talking about the depth I was just kind of looking at the court and I saw Kesler Edwards getting minutes I saw Trey ly getting minutes I saw McGee getting minutes uh

Davon Mitchell and I was like none of these dudes could play for us right now like they just wouldn’t get to you know um and that’s representative of just how deep the the roster is one thing I did want to talk about with JB uh by the way

I I know you kind of moved on but I did want to just get this point yeah we we we didn’t spend enough time there so thank you for doing this um we have consistently you know this is a very Pro JB podcast we really do believe in his

Not only his ability to motivate the team but you know he I we I think we both have felt like he’s been mislabeled as like not a great offensive coach or being able to lead great offenses uh or not having a sophisticated offense and like that’s always rubbed us both the

Wrong way because we have seen as the resources increased on the offensive end they’ve run cooler stuff you know and year after year after year the Cavs offense has gotten more complex with more options more more reads you know again check out Steve Jones on Twitter he’s he’s shown plays where they’re

Running like four or five actions that normally would have been just one set in a in a single possession uh they are generating advantages left and right against teams uh what even when their spacing isn’t perfect um because of the talent on the floor and because the

Coaching staff has leveled up with the talent on the floor there are a lot of coaches and a lot of teams who go get better players that fit better and they don’t end up looking that much different on the floor because their coach is so rigid uh I think JB’s flexibility and

You know and his staff’s flexibility to get this offense where I think it it’s looking the best it’s ever looked and that you know and the numbers don’t match that just yet but I think my eye my eye test tells me it is uh and the results just will follow over time like

I just I just could not give him enough flowers for that and he’s done it without you know bailing on the defensive end of the floor you know he still has his belief systems he’s just has that 30 to 40% flexibility based on the Personnel he’s got out there yeah

And and frankly like I I think the defense is actually improve this year um second in the league in defensive rating but just the the type of looks that they’re giving up like last year when you looked at the data was okay Cavs don’t give up a lot of open threes but

They do give up a fair number in the corner like that’s not really happening in the same way the Cavs are doing such a good job funneling teams to where they want them to take shots and and I feel like they’ve improved on that end but to

Me the the funny thing is like I think sometimes whether it’s team building and like we’ve fallen into this too because it’s so whenever you’re presented with new data we always try to relate it to our previous experiences previous you know archetypes previous team building stories whatever the case may be

I think sometimes people will look okay well a lot of good teams had a coach that took them through the rebuild and then they weren’t able to get them over the hump and they think that that’s something okay like let’s speed through the process let’s change a coach

Whatever the case may be and they don’t look for like why that change was necessary and usually it’s coach did not grow along with the team right they like coaches are not static Commodities they can have good and bad plays they can have good and bad games they can have

Good bad Seasons they can grow they can regret like they they’re human beings like everybody else involved in this process and for me like I I agree with you I think the what the Cavs have run like last year the the type of shock quality

That they had I I think is indicative of a very good offense that was working with quite a few limitations and it’s evolved from there and it’s because the narrative has always been okay he’s a coach that gets Buy in but tactically where where’s where’s he at I’ve always

Kind of felt it’s the opposite where it’s like yes there is a level of buying but the the scheme is good but the question has been when we get to crunch time are they going to continue to execute the offense are you going to get that buy in from Dean Wade Isaac okoro

To take those open threes when they’re available right like it’s we are generating good looks and we need everybody else to to you know play like the best versions of themselves and stick to the offense and I think what you saw in that stretch was

As you’ve so eloquently put it in a lot of places like with the options simplified everyone’s just like all right let’s run the offense let’s do our thing let let’s go out there and like play the the way that we have practiced and now you have Garland and Moy coming

Back and they’re adapting to it because they are smart players and their best makes everybody else better and you’re starting to see even more wrinkles like the fact that you got seven assists from Evan Moy and Garland is now spraying it out to the three-point line rather than

Just looking for for the the role man like they’re becoming so unpredictable and there’s so many ways that they can attack and to me that’s that’s the kind of symbiotic relationship that you have between coaches and players where players will force coaches to bend in different ways as they present different

Skill sets and it’s the coach’s responsibility to kind of nurture that develop uh skill sets with players trying to assess hey you’ve added something new to your game when has it got to the level where we can implement this and make it part of what we’re doing versus something we’re going to

Work with you privately and get a game ready at a different pace right like that is such a give and take relationship and I just think that they’ve done a good job of navigating that over the last couple years hell yeah brother it’s so fun it’s so fun

Dude they’ve lost one game since January 1st I I was looking at I was like who who do we lose to who was the the one loss prior to no the Raptors yeah I was like what what was that and of course it was the dam on January 1 uh but yeah I

Mean just like guys just don’t don’t take this run for granted the fact that they rattled off eight wins and have since rattled off six more like uh you know like there there have just been no letup there’s been no uh bad schedule or man were tired or man like they just

Keep figuring out how to grind out wins and they just keep coming in waves at teams until those teams kind of bail out so just please please please enjoy enjoy this while it lasts cuz like there were there were stretches where we didn’t see 15 wins in three four months like uh so

The fact that they’re doing this is just everything I could have asked for I do think before we wrap tonight Justin because the next time we’ll be live will be after the trade deadline should we do just a little bit of expectation setting in terms of what you think’s going to happen because

I don’t think this was going to be a crazy long segment um I before we get to that I just got a couple things that that I want to list off so Cavs had 32 wins uh 15 losses last year when they got to win 32 they had 22 losses so seven more

Losses like that’s that’s ridiculous uh continue to you know add to our points and uh I thought Chris Fedor had a really good stat about the effectiveness of Garland and Mitchell together this season so already mentioned you know they have a 108 defensive rating on the court that’s 96 percentile that is Elite

Defensively in their minutes together and obviously that’s the biggest concern because offensively they have both like when you look at the data over the last two years the team is better and they are better individually when they are together but they have a plus 9.5 net rating um in their time together it

Might have gone up after tonight but that is better than Tatum and brown on the court Court Booker and KD on the court uh goar and Carl Anthony towns like Theodore listed out a lot of those uh in his article but to me that’s so encouraging because I don’t think either

Of them has been their best versions of themselves this year and they are still so damn good together in those minutes and like when you talk about all right what’s the opportunities for growth Garland getting back to just where he was last year and the year prior that’s

Going to help I still feel like there’s a leap in there like I I still think that you know when you listen to how they were talking in training camp and even like the glimpses that we saw in preseason like there was such an excitement over what Darius had become

And what he had added to his game I think that there there’s still a leap in there and obviously there’s a leap when it comes to Evan Mobley who’s still just 22 years old but like Darius just had a birthday and like you listen to like um Emanuel quickley when people talk about

Like his exciting upside like potential Allstar in the future he’s a year older than Garland like I I think that’s the kind of stuff that’s sometimes can get forgotten because he he was you know so good like even though he had a rough start to his year he got so good so

Young and like two years ago was the best player on a team that won like 45 games so I’m just really really excited that these lineups are working so well already with such obvious room for growth if guys are just you know playing like themselves so I’m I’m very very

Excited for what that pairing can be and it ties into a question that that we got um on Twitter um just before we start recording uh Caleb had asked Carter and I want you to answer this uh do you think the cows should continue closing out games with the lineups that have

Been working so well since DGM Moy went out uh I think this is a bit of a misnomer because like they they’re only closing them out that way because those guys are hitting their minutes restrictions over the of course the game like I guess JB could stack it

Differently to make sure they close but like you know it’s just kind of unnecessary um I I want I’m going to not answer the question by just saying I think they should close with the lineups that are best suited to outplay the opponent like you know sometimes it will

Be their starters sometimes it will be you know swapping out a big for someone who is a little space year uh sometimes they’ll be swapping out a guard for for some extra size on the perimeter like I don’t think it will often be but like I I will always believe that a healthy

Team culture needs to be able to say h Darius this is just not your night and Isaac is going nuts on the opposing team’s best scorer we’re going to sit you the last two minutes and we still love you and you’re still a foundational player for us but like right now Isaac

We’re just going to let Isaac cook like you or hey or orine over one of the bigs yeah or you know hey uh J Jared uh there they are they’re really packing the paint Dean shooting really well and guarding in space well so for this one

We going to close but like I just think most of the time they’re starting five uh in some form or fashion will be the best five for the for the context but like I’ll never shut the door on letting JB make those calls yeah I I completely

Agree with that I I think you know we might see the small forward change right like it might be Isaac some nights it might be Max like Max has been amazing in the clutch so like I’m hesitant like I I think closing with your starting five like I think that’s the best

Combination of players I think that’s the most possible Talent you can put on the court but there might be a matchup where hey um Boston’s going big Dean get out there and guard Tatum like or or Isaac’s out there because you know you want a little bit of extra point of

Attack defense and the team’s going small like they have that flexibility and they have that optionality and like JB talked about before the game how his preference is going nine deep but he’ll go 10 because his his hands kind of forced by how well everyone’s playing I

Think what that’s going to be what that’s going to look like is everyone’s kind of guaranteed to maybe get like four minutes a half when you talk about like that 8910 and based on how well you’re playing based on how well those lineups are going you can go out there

And earn more like you you look at this game in particular the lineup that that works so well like the Cav went on a run with Garland okoro Levert Nang and Moy and that lineup played great but then in the fourth quarter that lineup struggled and Sacramento kind of adjusted they

Started attacking Yang a little more in space so Wade ended up coming in there for for Nang and Wade played more in the second half than Nang and I believe their minutes ended up being the same but it’s understanding okay even though I I have a rotation in mind if a

Lineup’s clicking and it’s going on a run if we a certain combination is working guys are going to be able to earn minutes on a game to game basis so as much as we struggle to come up with okay how are we going to allocate minutes for for 10 people it’s kind of

Sorts itself out and I think as long as everybody has an understanding that if I’m going out there and I’m playing well and and these lineups are clicking I’m going to get more opportunities within this game as long as it’s not a bad matchup I think it’s kind of a a

Competitive ecosystem that works well yeah it’s it’s not you’re not out there petrified you’re not going to get to play if you mess up but you know that you have a chance to earn more if you do well and like that is a really healthy space culturally and of you know

Competitively so because the team everyone should be fighting for for more minutes it is a zero sum game um but yeah I think that’s the one thing is it’s not like you just go into the rotation Setter in 2K and that’s just what they their minutes are you know

Like Sam Marill might average 14 minutes a game the rest of the year as the 10th Man or ninth man in the the rotation but it’ll be littered with a bunch of 8 Minute nights on some nights and 22 minute nights on others that end up just

Landing you around that 145 so I I I just think that’s probably the road to a healthy 10man rotation cuz like if you’re too rigid you end up doing exactly what you said which is you know stick you know rolling with a lineup that’s not working just just to roll

With it or subbing out a lineup that’s killing it just to just to keep on track and again i’ I said it last SP I’ll say it again it’s a really hard challenge for JB and the coaching staff to figure out how to read the room on that stuff

But I you know they’re proving up to it so far yeah I completely agree uh I think the only thing really left on on the rundown here is to as he said set some expectations for the trade deadline I don’t think we’re going to be talking about anything like that’s that’s my

Guess I I think you know C are going to be active and they’re going to explore options um like when you talked Carter about how how like to build out a rotation in the past when you had LeBron okay he’s going to kind of easily bring guys in and whatnot like the thing

That’s impressive with the Caz is yeah we have those three picks that we no longer have that that went to Utah as a result of the the um Mitchell trade but they managed to stay under the apron and and keep their mid-level exception um which was obviously brought used to on

George Nang uh they found creative ways to to bring Max Tru into the fold I I I think one of the things worth pointing out is when you talk about the buyout Market the Cav are one of the few teams that’s not above that first apron so

They’re actually going to be able to sign bio players most of the best teams in the league are at least above that first apron and wouldn’t be allowed to bid on guys so maybe that’s an Avenue they go um I think if the Cavs do make a move

Maybe it is to keep that Financial flexibility in mind because I I’ve seen some people say well you know you can just kind of go out and pay whatever to to keep this group together it’s not just about that anymore because of the harsher penalties so I I wouldn’t be

Surprised if we saw some sort of creative move to to whether it’s to to free up space to make sure that you can extend ooro next year or um to to set up for a move this this summer I it wouldn’t stun me but I just don’t think

There’s a lot of that out there like I I think they can kind of keep the status quo and maintain flexibility to make that kind of move in the summer but when things are working this well like I I just I don’t think you you want to go

Out there and rock the boat necessarily so I agree I if if I were a betting man I would bet on no move um because the Cavs don’t really have the ammo to make a big splash and all the small splashes are just weird you know

It just mess up your rotation you know you you just kind of you never want to make a trade and wonder like are we better after this you know you and like the cabs just don’t have a lot of De demonstrated needs and the one and even

The things they’re like just okay at like you’re gonna have to push someone who’s really good at something something else out of the rotation to do that so you know the one thing that I did was thinking about Justin and hear me out on this because the one tra the only spaces

That I’ve been interested in are like you know maybe throw a second at someone to like fortify your backup five or something like that you know and one thing I did think about is if the team does decide to kind of go that angle I’m not for for more of a

Short-term rental I do think I’m less pressed about those kind of draft and stash developmental uh picks that they might if they wanted to use those picks and make picks with with with some of their uh second round draft Capital because of the fact that they found

These Diamonds in the Rough the Sam Merrills the uh the Craig Porter Juniors the ammani Bates like even like a guy like Luke Travers who I’m super fond of uh who’s having a great year over in Australia like I do think like if you find someone who can like bring

Something different if you need it like and and you know maybe maybe they’re not someone who has to play like that’s interesting to me but like you know that would only be interesting to me because of the work the front office has already done to go find really awesome kind of

Developmental prospects kind of at every level of their rotation yeah I totally agree like my mentality with second round piics right now is they are fun coupons like if you want to go out there and spend those on like a a shortterm move or whatever I I think that’s

Perfectly justifiable because like we already have a minute crunch with the talent on this roster and we believe that you know ammani Bates is going to be able to step forward the Cavs are going to have their full mid-level exception again this summer they have their first round pick this

Year like spoiler on our draft coverage this year and it’s not just because I’m lazy I think one of the things we’ll end up talking about a whole lot is hey if you can trade this first back to get a first in a year that you don’t have one

And you know open up flexibilities with the stepping Rule and whatnot like that might be something that you might want to explore because you just don’t want to necessarily bring in that fir first uh round player in or maybe cap hold like you know all that all that boring

Stuff or or maybe you’re able to on draft night as part of a consolidation move like I I think there’s a lot of ways that this can go so um I I think when you talk about like spending it on a shortterm kind of thing that that’s something that I would not be

Opposed to like whether it’s you know a backup big whether it’s a little bit of point guard depth um like there there’s a lot of different directions they can go but but this is by way not expecting anything like I’m not expecting anything at all I’m expecting anything yeah I

Don’t need to add to it I’m I’m long-winded but I don’t need to add it to that I’m I’m not expecting anything yeah the only thing I’ll I’ll say there is even if you want to spend money on a fun coupon um you have to this is the spot

Where you have to be really conscientious of your culture and who you’re bringing in CU if you go spend a fun coupon on a backup five that you’ve you know had your eye on a second draft guy you’ve liked for a while and then get here and they’re like what the heck

I’m not in the rotation you trade for me I’m not even in the rotation like you need to you need to kind of do some you know some some safety homework and and make sure that you know you’re you’re bringing in someone who’s going to be with the program because like you know

Low talked about that on his podcast about a lot of teams who are really well set but maybe should just go get a guy just to get a guy just to give yourself some more optionality I do think that does apply to the cast but you have to

Get the right guy uh that that can tow that line between not expecting to play but being ready to help um that’s a that’s a small middle of a VIN diagram so I’m expecting nothing uh and uh unlike last year where I was disappointed the Cavs didn’t make a move

I am perfectly okay if if they don’t yeah like when you talk about introducing a new piece like that can lead to friction as he said right like that that can lead and when you have that negative energy in the locker room which would be be perfectly understandable for someone that you know

Is looking for an opportunity and not getting one that can have an effect on everybody else like that is a big big difference compared to okay we’re bringing back darus Garland and Evan Moy who we have this massive sample size that they all work well together that

They they’ve all been on the same page they’ve gone through training camps they they do all their offseason activities together like that is a totally different type of will this rock the boat uh thing that you can feel good about versus bring bringing in something completely new so it it’ll be

Interesting to see what happens there we will be going live Thursday after the next game uh and probably talking about any official deals if stuff has been announced then um but we’ll uh I’m I’m looking forward to it man because we get through this stretch um of all the

Travel between these games if they can continue winning man they’re in a great position like they only have to go no matter what Milwaukee does in their Central division games the Cavs only have to go three and two in the remaining games against the central uh in order to clinch the tiebreaker over

Milwaukee which is currently why they’re in two they play Chicago twice they play Indie twice and they play Detroit if Milwaukee loses a single game uh remaining against the central you can all of a sudden just take off go up yeah you just take off one of those losses

And you feel even better about it so uh that’s really really exciting they only have to get three wins there um like at this point like catching Milwaukee and you know catching Philly like that was such a conversation that we had of okay is that possible now that

We’re already here you can hold like we we have the schedule Advantage we should feel confident about our ability to be the two seed this season that should be the damn goal the Bucks have the third most difficult schedule left in the league the Cavs have the 22nd most

Difficult schedule left in the league and you know what that not factoring for what Philly is going to be in those matchups either yep two seeds should be the goal we have it now let’s hold on to for dear life and not just that let’s put some distance if the Cavs can keep

Winning until the All-Star break and actually put some distance here we are cooking with gas let let’s go out and do this damn thing I feel great about it Carter how about you I feel so good about this team right now what a fun

Time and and if we got over our skis a little bit I don’t even care cuz it’s it’s been been such a fun time uh watching this team uh since since December 15th like that magical date um where everything seemed to be going to hell uh and instead they they it it went

So the opposite direction it I’m still having a hard time wrapping my head around it Carter we’re not neutral observers here like we’re fans like I I think we I think we do a good job of trying our best to to give okay what’s what’s the objective read of the

Situation but we’re always going to skew to bias because we’re fans and we want to enjoy this [ __ ] man like this is this is what it’s all about like basketball NBA it’s all escapism it’s all community and can I shout out our community right now we had 300 we had 300 concurrent in

The YouTube chat VI vibing with us at 11 o’clock Eastern after a win so thank you very much to the YouTube live we love you guys it’s so fun to see you guys talking uh on that sidebar and uh if you are an audio only listener you know we

Love you too but you know come come hang out post game it’s super fun yeah and if you want to have space where where you can hang out and talk more chase down Discord is always available to you guys simple entry fee folks you just got to

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The Cavaliers have won 14 of their last 15 games and are in possession of the #2 seed in the Eastern Conference after topping the Kings 136-110.

Carter and Justin react to the unbelievable run of play from the Cavaliers, look forward to the upcoming schedule and much more!

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Please Note: The opinions expressed by The Chase Down podcast are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of the Cleveland Cavaliers or its Basketball Operations staff, parent company, or partners.