Is Damian Lillard or Doc Rivers most to blame for Bucks’ disaster? | Nerd Sesh x Matt Sponhour
Welcome everybody back into nerd sesh as always I’m Carson BR and alongside me is Logan Camden and today we are joined by none other than the Matthew spawn hour who we saw just a couple weeks back at the Super Bowl pre festivities we should say have have you been since then man
I’ve been wonderful I’ve been wonderful um I almost didn’t make my flight home uh we were sitting on the plane hello I had a connecting in O’Hare and they’re like yeah the the computer on the plane isn’t working we’re going to reboot it way I don’t think we’re taking this
Plane we had to get off they had to get a different plan took a couple hours but outside of that things have been good it was fun seeing y’all in uh in Vegas yeah that was really fun we got to hang out with all the stay hot guys got to meet
Both you and Bladen in person for the first time Theo of course we’ve known for a while the freak but dude that makes me think of when I was coming back from Buffalo having already had my heart broken the captain comes over the loudspeakers we’ve been sitting on the
Tarmac for like 45 minutes an hour and he’s like hey so we’ve got a lithium battery on fire we’ve contacted we call them firefighters and I was like what does he mean we call them fire fighters sure enough it was just a fire department and uh we ended up taking off
All right so you know they can fix those things pretty quickly it’s incredible what they can do that’s kind of a strange coincidence I had a tumultuous return to Phoenix too man I’ve never had turbulence quite like I did on the way back man that thing was rocking dude
Like I was scared for a little bit but I got back safe I thought Matthew was covering up for the Bender that he was on in Vegas that’s what I think yeah he said I almost missed my connecting flight come on man no no
No yeah no no type of that man it was all it was all the Pilot’s fault me I was locked and I was ready to go I left the house at at 9:00 a.m. 4 hours early to the airport of course I was I’m good I’ve never I’ve never even come close to
Missing a flight I’m I can’t say that I missed my first flight this year it was actually on another trip to Buffalo just forgot to send an alarm early morning but I worked it out I made it work that’s what we do man all right we’re going to talk some basketball a little
Bit of football today but mostly NBA because of course TI the season and it feels like maybe the hottest story in the sport as of late has been uh the continued bad vibes and struggles of the Milwaukee Bucks they’re three and seven since Doc Rivers took over and Logan has
Been consistently leading the antioc rivers train and Matthew last time that you came on our show we were actually talking very early in the year being like e not loving what we’re seeing from the Bucks How concerned are you now at this point in the season and who would
You blame most for what we’ve seen from them as of late the who I would blame most question is a tough one because the doc losing streak for a team that’s had a pretty good regular season record is like pretty concerning and and pretty fair to point too but honestly man I
Think when I look at the buck season and I say what exactly didn’t work out there’s a lot of different things that you could maybe point to but their big move was getting Dame and we knew that was going to hurt their perimeter defense but Dame was so good last year
On offense that you know you figure it’d be worth it and it really hasn’t been it really hasn’t been good enough right uh and Dame’s particularly cold right now he’s been up and down so maybe he comes out of the All-Star break and turns it
Back on it’s not that long ago that we saw you know the season he had last year was probably one of his best if not his best Straight Up in terms of how he’s playing so if he turned it on and it was different in the playoffs it wouldn’t
Stun me but as it stands right now like he needs to be a top 10 maybe even like top five offensive player in the NBA that was the standard that’s he looked close to that if not that last year so I kind of think that was their big swing
And it missed and if I’m going to blame you know why I’m a little bit lower on them it’s probably going to be that there’s other things like Doc Rivers I’m not super high on and I think they’re super old and that’s concerning come playoff time but the Dame stuff sticks
Out to me uh for sure I think you have to point to the Dame stuff as being one of the biggest reasons why uh the Bucks have struggled and a part of that is what they gave up the opportunity cost in the Dame trade right Drew holiday was
A key member of them going out and uh a part of this is something that I think Doc Rivers has meant uh mentioned in the Press I’m going to go ahead and I’m going to give some of these quotes dude he’s on a generational run gentleman I
Mean it’s it’s kind of crazy what Doc is doing in the pressers these days uh one you lose Dre holiday and one thing that doc has mentioned in the presser is that you know there’s been a lack of identity and a lack of culture here in milwauke right uh clearly established during
Their Championship run over the past few years is this gritty defensive minded team so not only do you lose the Personnel you lose a heart and soul a member of your team that really was responsible for the energy and for what actually happened on the court so I
Think that is a a major component of it and Dame has not been great specifically two the last 10 games 21 3 and six on 42 32 splits I mean just ugly uh Chris Middleton has only played in four of their last 10 games you know he’s put up
An efficient 14 points per game but he’s just not out there but I’ll go ahead and I’ll take the low hanging fruit and I’ll put some of this on Doc man I think doc does deserve some of the blame um I think first and foremost there’s just
Bad leadership and like JJ reick said him not owning up to his responsibilities as the head coach uh you’re the leader of this team now you just have to accept it DOC I mean it’s a reality of the situation some of these quotes are hilarious though man uh
Initially he told the Bucks ownership I don’t understand why you’re doing this okay awesome thank you for sharing that with us doc um taking a job when you’re about to go on the toughest road trip of the season is not the smartest decision I even told them that can we wait till
The All-Star break it would have been a lot nicer oh man doc do you do I need to get you some tissues man I got to wipe his his eyes man uh it’s been three weeks it’s been harder than I thought my heart just breaks for Doc
Rivers man and then the the Cuda gr here man the cherry on top of the cake uh we had some guys in here and some guys in Cabo after the Grizzlies game and I do think the Bucks deserve some uh blame like the players for their effort in
That game too but the one thing that I’ll get on Doc for in that game is that final possession and and something with the buck offensive process that has just frustrated me I know you have these two stars and yanis is going to carry you through and like you said Matt I expect
Dame to reach some level where he is this top 15 to top 10 player that is just going to carry your offense right that shouldn’t be Doc’s responsibility it should be getting them ready schematically defensively offensively your team should just go because you have Giannis and
Dame right mhm and so I won’t fully put that on him but that final play of the game what the hell is Brook Lopez doing guys against Memphis like one the game shouldn’t have even got down to that but the fact that Brook Lopez is bringing a
High ball screen to Damen Lillard at the on the last possession of that game when they need a bucket at half court bro clear it out it’s Damen Lillard Brooke he doesn’t need you man like there was just no design play there was no process there was no idea of what they were
Doing going into that final possession and I’ll put some of that on Doc two what happens is because Brooke is putting that pressure up at the top of the key the second Defender can just go ahead and Blitz Dame because you got two guys at half court instead of if Brooke
Had just gone down to the paint if he was going to get a rebound so I think it’s a combination of things I think it’s Dame not playing up to expectations I think it’s doc clearly not ready to lead this team uh I also think that the
Construction of this roster is a little great I don’t or is a little uh it’s not great I think that uh their bench and their depth Lacks a little bit but I’m going to put the Lion Share of the blame on Doc Rivers not leading this team and
Damen Lillard not playing up to expectation I think those are clearly the two guys you have to identify when we’re talking about this recent skid because if we’re looking at the story of these bucks struggles as a whole coaching is definitely a part of it Dame Under performing offensively over the
Whole year is a part of it but really it’s been their inability to defend at the level that we expect from them specifically because of their issues on the perimeter Dame Bears a large chunk of the responsibility there not only is he not nearly as physically equipped to
Defend as a Drew holiday he just hasn’t been delivering in the effort categories he’s been a huge huge negative defensively but it’s really been the offense that’s sputtered as of late they’re actually defending better Underdog but they’re 22nd in offensive rating and I don’t think Doc is good I
Don’t think doc really ever does anything to help you and that’s the thing I feel like I’ve had to be like a Doc Rivers defender in contrast to Logan because you should hear the things that he’s saying M it’s ridiculous yeah he’s like he’s like I think the Pacers are
Better than the Bucks I don’t think you’ve literally said that but you’re like the Bucks are my five or six team out east just because they have Doc and I’m like Doc cannot single-handedly sabotage you and that is still true but he doesn’t help you the offense feels
Very stagnant right now I agree there is some weird spacing stuff that last possession I mean Brook Lopez is screening before Dame is at half court right one of the great luxuries of playing with Damen Lillard is that you can set a screen 35 fet out and the
Defense has to respect that he can pull up from 33 and so he can get these huge runways downhill or you have these great opportunities for Pick and pop but it’s different when you’re screening before half court not to mention Giannis is just sort of casually running in that
Same area so you really have three Defenders there’s been some stuff in terms of spacing Concepts play design overall offensive approach that I haven’t liked I still will never understand why they don’t run more Dame Yannis pick and roll every Dame Yannis Twan action is so effective if it’s a
Handoff Giannis coming downhill as a roller what he can do playmaking as a short roller just creating cleaner driving lanes for Dame like you’re amplifying the skill sets of your two best players by having them play off of each other and they just like rarely do
It and that was a problem with Adrien Griffin that’s a problem with Doc but at the end of the day it’s exactly what you said Matt like Dame was supposed to be a fringe top 10 level player in the NBA he was supposed to be the best offensive
Player on this team the reason that I loved this move is that I thought he would be so overwhelmingly great offensively that he would solve by far their biggest issue which was half court execution offensively especially late in games in those playoff envir environments where you’re like oh my God
Turns out an ugly Giannis ISO against bam atabo a guy who can hang with him physically is a bad possession Drew holiday running our clutch offense is pretty suboptimal because of some of the volatility he had as a pull-up shooter and then athletically he’s just not able
To get wherever he wants on the floor having a guy who can stress a defense constantly and is a pure shot maker the level of Damen Lillard like that should change everything Dame had his best regular season ever last year he averaged 32 a game career high on Career
Best efficiency 65% true shooting in the Portland Trailblazers which is I believe 29th in offensive rating this year played as a 92nd percentile offense when Dame was on the floor and he just hasn’t been that guy he hasn’t been that guy this year but he really hasn’t been that
Guy as of late it looks like he’s lost a step he is struggling to get to the rim more than ever before attempting a career low percentage of his shots there and he’s struggling as a shooter more than we’ve ever seen and he’s taking some really tough off the dribble threes
And another reason that I think Giannis in his two-man game should be gone to more is that this team is old and they’re lacking in Dynamic athletes outside of Giannis and if you’re running pick and roll with Brook Lopez every possession guess what he’s going to pop
Every single time there’s nobody who can threaten the defense as a roller and so Dame forced to take these tough contested pull-up threes they just need him to be a superstar and if he’s not going to be Superstar then this team isn’t going to contend for anything
Serious they lost that trade and it’s it’s a disaster I do want to ask you I 100% agree with that but I do want to ask you Doc Rivers can’t single-handedly single-handedly sabotage a team right yeah but like man he’s getting pretty close to it no these quotes that he’s
Going to the Press like what if that’s not it what would be you know it it’s completely ridiculous the things that he’s saying in the media even if he would just stop doing that and just not say anything and not do any interviews like most coaches do like yeah
Practically every every other coach in the NBA does things would be at least you know salvageable but you’ve got that and you’ve got like the Dame thing where it’s like who’s your top five or who’s a five you’d want to run with and Giannis isn’t there which is like not the end of
The world but like man you really didn’t think that put him in there because that’s your guy and especially when bam is in there who’s not only clearly the he’s a Miami Heat player and well yeah it’s wrong but it’s also like Dame was begging go only to the Heat and now he’s
Still putting a heat guy in that starting five The Vibes are awful dude and Doc is definitely making that worse I agree and if you guys notice the other quotes that players have been dropping too it’s not just doc like Dame had a quote a couple weeks ago where he was
Talking about he’s not clear-minded on the court he’s dealing with with off the court stuff with like uh you know his family and then yeah and then Giannis comes out and he’s like I don’t watch NBA basketball I don’t watch film it makes it harder and I’m like
What like I don’t you don’t prepare for the game Yannis like I don’t know and then the the doc thing like you said too Matt does it bother you guys that like Doc is laying the foundation of excuses right now that he’s like I don’t know it’s like he’s like laying it to
Disappoint the fans and like he’s he’s putting down the woodwork now so there’s like a like a breadcrumb trail of absolutely absolutely that’s what he’s doing and here’s what happen things were a disaster in that locker room and in that organization that’s why Griffin was gone doc comes in like cool yeah I’ll
Try to turn things around gets in there immediately oh man I can’t I can’t fix this this is screwed yeah and then he’s going to the media and just saying yeah by the way this is a disaster that’s also guys remember it’s not on me it’s
Not on me guys it’s not on Old doc yeah and I said they shouldn’t even do this I didn’t even want to do this it’s really I shouldn’t even be here dude it’s so weird weird but it is true like I don’t know if doc who was let’s remember Adrien Griffin’s mentor
And like an adviser in this situation sabotaged him or whatever I know some people have their theories but that was my biggest issue with firing Adrien Griffin when you had the second best record in the league 40s something games into his first ever season as a head
Coach it wasn’t that he had been doing a good job I didn’t think that he had been doing a good job I thought that in terms of late game offense there was some weird stuff operationally again honest D pick and roll they should go more to they were defending poorly even
Considering the Personnel but I mostly thought like you need to give this situation time to gel you need to give Damon Giannis time to figure things out you do ultimately need to address the Personnel weakness that is the biggest issue in terms of your defense falling
Off a cliff and they didn’t give time for that to happen and I get that it seems nobody liked Adrien Griffin and people were done with him and like they did that that whole jig when they played their first game without him but the problem is if you’re in a situation
That’s going to be problematic either way and you abandon give up on a guy after 40-some games and then you go to another guy who’s not even a good coach and isn’t the solution not like now we’re in panic mode now things are spiraling now we’ve taken a bad
Situation and we’ve stacked instability on top of it and things have gotten worse and that was my biggest problem with firing Adrien Griffin that fast and then especially doc being the replacement I have two quick questions for you guys okay right number one do you think Doc Rivers will be the head
Coach of the Milwaukee Bucks next season I mean how is he not I the the the complicated thing that comes into this is it’s like the Raider situation with head coach how they’re paying three or four different guys simultaneously because their owner a dumbass it’s the same concept you’re paying all these
Different guys like like like you’ve said Carson they if if you let Adrien Griffin coach out this first year you leave yourself two outs at the end of the Year Damien doesn’t have to be the scapegoat if he doesn’t play up to Superstar level you can just say oh it
Was Adrien Griffin and then guess what you get a pass from the media next season it’s a clean slate we’ll get a new head coach in there we’ll restart even if it was Doc you give yourself an out you say oh it wasn’t Dam and Giannis
They didn’t fail it was personnel and it was Adrien Griffin none of us liked him but by jumping the gun and doing this you have taken that out away from yourself and you have handcuffed yourself to Doc Rivers for not just this year but I mean I think the next two I
They threw him a bag I don’t know how you yeah I don’t know how you can fire him and that’s what sucks is it’s kind of like abundantly clear that doc doesn’t give a [ __ ] doc doesn’t really care that much but I agree dude like if you are a
Team that is towards the top of the league in terms of record and you have a top three player on the planet and you fire three coaches in a calendar year I don’t know how you can do that like that to me again just worsens the spiral it
Worsens The Descent and that’s the problem with going from a subpar option to a subpar option and I just can’t help but think like what if they had just hired Nick nurse what if they had hired Nick nurse who apparently absolutely they wanted but Giannis didn’t want like
Would they be the title favorite probably not like I don’t think that he is a like magic Flex Seal all your problems are gone but I can pretty much guarantee you that they’d be firmly in that inner circle the top three with Denver and Boston and right now they’re
Scrapping with the tier below that so then my second question would be do you think that jig will be the peak of the Doc Rivers Milwaukee Bucks era yes it’s not getting better than that because they had this delusional excitement apparently they hadn’t watched the last 12 years of B
Basketball and there are no more jigs to be had in Milwaukee The Jig Is up in fact yeah it’s rough thanks man that’s all there is to say about the Bucks The Jig Is up it’s jover and uh you know it’s over for a team when you can like
Make a video being like they’re screwed they’re done they’re so stupid and the fans don’t get mad at you they’re happy you’re saying that and they agree that’s when it’s over and from what seen Bucks fans are very very much in that camp especially cuz Bucks fans used to be
Like very sensitive and defensive at least and when a fan base can acknowledge it’s over it’s a great Point all their arguments now all the doc Defenders are just like guys can we wait can we just wait until we get on dock can we just wait I I could wait through
A three and seven first 10 game record that’s one thing it’s bad but it’s one thing the quotes you are undefendable they’re ridiculous yeah for a veteran head coach who’s been coaching since before I was alive insane yeah yeah he’s a weird guy but I do think if Dame is Dame if Dame
Is last year Dame the Bucks should still be in the Conference Finals absolutely like that’s why I don’t want to just scapegoat dock because at the end of the day you’re supposed to have overwhelming basketball talent that can overcome a not so great coach what I always say
When Logan talks about Doc is if this cartoon villain who’s just like scheming ways to blow up the team with TNT is he actually won a title once you know why because the players were great enough to where his Tom Foolery couldn’t ruin things and yeah dude Doc Rivers is the
Equivalent of Wy coyote I was going to make the exact same comparison and like Carson I don’t necessarily 100% disagree with you like well you know how much of his like he’s not just just like purposefully making them lose or anything he’s not that but like it’s
It’s probably going to end looking like that no like it’s ended pretty poorly for him for the last 12 years and it’s not looking good now yeah and the fact that this is happening in the regular season the doc sucks discourse already like that’s the crazy part because doc
Wins a lot of games in the regular season with these talented teams when he gets exposed as in that playoff chess match he’s kind of having a legacy defining run here like we’ve never really seen doc sabotage at this level before so I am impressed on that front
But you know who’s very much trending in the opposite direction the Dallas Mavericks who did a little business with your Charlotte Hornets at the deadline Matt and they’ve won six straight now do you think that they have title upside that was a really tough question
When I saw it in the rundown you sent me yesterday it’s not an easy answer I mean I think about it it’s like okay well do you have the number one like the serious number one in a championship team absolutely right Luca is one of the best offensive creators in the world
Ever uh he’s playoff proven and he can go sort of that there’s not much you can do about me mode that you need guys to be able to do right like every championship team has a guy like that Luca can do that and you got the number
Two in Kyrie the offense with them has been super super good Kyrie’s also incredibly proven he’s looked good since he’s come back from injury so I mean offensively when they’re both on the court I think it’s maybe the best in the NBA or one of the best in the NBA
So that that absolutely is Championship level the question is about the defense and what you’ve seen since they’ve made these moves is that they added some size they got Gafford they got PJ and it has made a world of difference for them and the qu it’s a little bit questionable
Because a lot of the other guys are fighting to be par Defenders it feels like like the Lucas and the Kyrie of the world and you got to question like how is that going to hold up in the playoffs are teams going to be able to just go at
These guys guys and hopefully try to like space things out a little bit and the interior help isn’t there as much and that’s what ends up costing them or is it going to be like yeah we are going to be able to counter what people throw
At us because we’ve got Maxi and PJ and and Gafford and lively that’s a pretty good rotation a guys be able to you know throw out some different looks at teams or respond to different looks you got good spacing in there you got good size
Uh depending on how you play that uh I I I think it’s it’s close enough where I could say yeah if if the defense is even you know 80% of what it’s looked like recently and the offense is as good as it’s been it wouldn’t shock me if they
Were in the Western Conference finals and if you can get that far it wouldn’t shock me I don’t know I I I lean I’m going to lean yes I think it can be done and maybe if not this year they have ammo in the offseason I think to go out and try
To make another move so I think yeah I think the Dallas Mavericks really do have a title upside and I think you’re right Matt like this is the really the best rotation and conglomerate of you know players that they’ve ever had around like alongside Luca and like you
Even look at the Western Conference Finals run I mean it’s really Brunson right it’s really Brunson and just guys playing up to adequate levels of defense and shooting and when you look at everybody the totality here um it’s a lot better they’re three- 0 with Daniel Gafford they have over 50 rebounds in
The three games with Daniel Gafford without him they were averaging 41 A2 in the three games with Gafford they’re averaging 55 rebounds per game now I think we need to mention with that there’s a bit of a caveat they’ve played the Spurs the Wizards and the Thunder
All three of those teams are very slight teams so literally I mean towards the absolute bottom of the league 29th and rebound rate is the Thunder and 30th is the wizards but that’s a real advantage that Dallas is going to have over slighter teams over smaller teams in the
Front court and that’s something that’s so huge about having Gafford having Lively it’s super easy for hyper athletic big men to fit in here alongside Luca and Kyrie right both of these guys are great out of pick and roll getting downhill you have to respect them from everywhere on the
Court they can throw lobs wherever and so really every possession if you just have a guy rolling hard to the rim it has to draw attention it opens up a lot of opportunities but it also gets them close to the rim if lucar Kyrie put up a
Shot like it’s just a good action to run in your offense and if you have a hyper athletic big man it’s going to work and then they make up for those guys defensive deficiencies that you mentioned Matt with Rim protection so they’re just great assets to have Lively
This season has the six most Aly oops finished Gafford has the 12th most like they’re really good for what they do alongside these guys and then you mentioned some of the role players like they’re playing really well and I I think I trust them like I think it’s
Going to require them playing good Wing defense and shooting well but I don’t think that’s out of the uh I don’t think that’s it’s not definitely not entirely out of the question that’s how I feel about it too and that’s why I think they do have that ceiling and you’re right
The rest of the offense not even just The Bigs but the rest of the offense is just really really well built out and I know like PJ maybe hasn’t done anything crazy for them yet uh but having an ultra Ultra versatile four like that with his size he can get worked out of
The post he can you know go off the dribble I think absolutely huge for him I really like what they’ve got going on yeah dude uh the to to speak specifically like to the roll guys Hardway junr can swing a series with his shooting man Josh green has been playing
A good ball recently the one guy that’s flown under the radar to me is Dante exom man exm has been kind of a diamond in the rough pickup for them he’s averaging an efficient 93 and three on 57 48 73 splits um like you said it Matt
At the start if they get superhuman Luca and Kyrie on offense and everything else is to an adequate or average level they have the Personnel to make the run I I wouldn’t be surprised at all man anything is possible with with superhuman Luca and Kyrie yeah I think there are two teams
Who I have significantly more confidence in winning the title than like anybody else and that is the Nuggets number one and the Celtics number two but when you are looking at that next tier of teams where I’m like you really have a punchers chance like I wouldn’t even put
The Clippers quite in that top tier the Bucks would be in that next tier I think the Mavs are now there you have one of the most dangerous offensive Duos specifically back courts in league history and there is no overstating how dominant Luca is in playoff environments
Like you said it Matt the guy who can just get where he wants and the defense is like oh man there’s really nothing we can do about this we can try any different coverage we can throw the kitchen sink at this guy right if we trap him he’s going to destroy us with
Playmaking and he is Kyrie Irving on the court with him if we deal with him in single coverage in anyway he’s going to just annihilate us isolation pick and roll post-ups and now they are bigger and they’re more athletic in the front Court that’s the reason that earlier
Before the year I thought this was going to be a playing Team CU I’m like their front court is just levels below everybody else but now I look at what Lively has grown into this year and with Gafford and with PJ and I see a starting
Five of Kyrie Luca Josh Green PJ Gafford with thj and Lively and Maxi and Hardy and Dante exam who’s been hurt but you’re right Logan when he was healthy he was playing well like they’ve done an incredible job of building out this roster and I do still worry about the
Defensive ceiling it’s higher they are going to rebound better they’re going to protect the rim better with Gafford out there and he’s going to eat up boards and offensively too yes he has that vertical spacing that Lively does but he also brings a little more physicality
He’s got a little bit more that touch finishing too and I like what I’ve seen from PJ defensively that was one of my questions is all right we know that he has the tools right he’s 67 athletic moves well in space got hops 73 wingspan but when you’re Charlotte Hornet like
You can only tap into that so much no offense Matt and I was curious like how much is he going to buy in I’ve been impressed through his first couple games well what what it really came down to and part of the reason why he was so bad
For the Hornets this year because he had a fantastic season last year but uhhuh he just felt like sometimes his role was a little bit bigger than it was supposed to be because of the team totally and defensively defensively he can’t play the five now there’s nothing wrong with
That there’s nothing against that he cannot play the five but when Mark Williams went down for the Hornets he kept getting minutes there and it’s like it just doesn’t work it’s just not what suits him they ran out of options cuz it’s Nick Richards PJ J Washington and
Then Nathan menah who has been not very good for Charlotte whatsoever so I I I’ve heard some Mavs fans talking about like well he’s a little bit more like defensively versatile than Grant Williams we can put him at different positions and I was checking to see like
Do they mean at Center they mean you know play the four a little bit more it’s like they mean he can play the four cuz they’re a serious team and you know they don’t have 10 wins or 13 wins or whatever um yeah but yeah yeah I I I
Agree I think PJ in this environment is going to look like he did last year soon and I totally agree about the offensive role too like that’s the thing there were some possessions in Charlotte where you’re like oh PJ is running pick and roll like I’m not sure that that really
Suits his skill set super well he doesn’t have to do that in Dallas it’s play finishing and its effort defensively so Luca’s averaging like 359 and 10 on insane efficiency and in the playoffs that’s damn near what you expect from him so when you have that
Guy when you have a top two offensive player on the the planet and with him Kyrie has been so great like in games that Luca doesn’t play in that Kyrie plays in the Mavs have an offensive rating of 123 when Kyrie is on the floor they actually have a slightly better
Offensive rating than when Luca’s on the floor overall this year it’s like a negligible difference but that’s awesome value when you can take your absolute Superstar off the court and the guy behind him is so great that you don’t really lose much in terms of Team production that makes them scary I still
Think the path to be Denver is exceedingly difficult because in that matchup they are still going to be undersized and they’re not going to defend at that same level and then I worry all right your backourt maybe they get picked on defensively and on the glass I think you’re going to lose and
At the end of the day as great as Luca is I don’t think you have the best player in that series but outside of that I don’t think there’s anybody else who I look at and I’m like yeah Dallas can’t beat them because of what Luca can
Do and because they’ve improved in the other areas they’ve done a phenomenal job building things up since uh since Brunson left mhm they they really have and I think it’s funny because you’ve sort of seen both sides of of of the trades from them it’s like they got
Kyrie and I think a lot of people said you know like well are they just going after a star for the sake of going after a star that fit next to Luca that doesn’t work there it’s more to just Talent than building out a team and they
Made the PJ trade and I feel like I heard a decent number of people say the opposite where it’s like you really gave up a first round pick for PJ Washington he’s not he’s not talented enough to to do that for that doesn’t make any sense
So I’m glad things are working out for him I’m excited to watch uh some serious Luca playoff basketball I think it’ll be good I do have one question for you guys about this one though yeah okay Mavs are pretty serious now right we’re saying they have title upside wolves Thunder Clippers Nuggets
Five teams in the west not all of them can make the second round of those five who is the most likely to be a first round exit the most lik out of the five you gave mhm probably Oklahoma City I hate doing that to him but uh slight framed inexperienced I
Want to add one more thing about what you were saying about Kyrie Matt is I think it’s actually deeper than that I think the Kyrie trade was a desperation move to make sure that uh Luca didn’t leave like I think in retrospect like they needed somebody that was going to
Like not only like just talent wise they needed somebody as like hey Luca we’re committed to you we want you to stay here because I think that if and if that ever broaches it or if we get to a point where the Mavs are having real turmoil
Where they are in the gutter I mean I think a Luca yic crossover collab you know could be on the table I don’t know what that hypothetically looks like but I think that was want to and players have a lot of Leverage I don’t know how
It would happen either and I I 100% agree the Kyrie stuff worked out so well because they got a player for such talent for so cheap like it was the right swing to take you needed to find the way to get some of that stuff back when you lose Brunson for nothing that
Was the way to do it totally I thought that the Brunson disaster was something that was going to set them back for years years I I like I saw that I’m like well teams just don’t come back from that like just you just can’t have that happen to you right you
Have to be able to hang on to that guy and then I looked at the Kyrie trade and I was like okay yeah it’s good value for the caliber of pure basketball player he is but now you’re giving up all of your front Court depth all of the guys who
Were able to propel you to that Western Conference Finals run because yeah you had the shot creation but you needed the defense of adorian finy Smith on the wings and you’re giving up like the remaining draft assets you have and I liked the basketball fit I worried about
The defensive backourt as I still do but offensively people were like oh it’s two ball dominant guards no man Kyrie has played alongside a lot of other ball dominant players he’s such a great spot-up shooter he attacks quickly and efficiently but then he can dictate offense when those guys are off the
Floor I really liked that I was just like you have no other assets and you still have these glaring glaring weaknesses in your front court and the value moves that they have made to fix those issues are incredible I’m really impressed and also Kyrie hasn’t done anything insane and it hasn’t been that
Long but you’re through most of a season and yeah he got hurt and that’s a concern but he’s healthy now he’s playing great and he hasn’t been like a locker room problem so that’s a win and answer your question because I really like that I think the Thunder are the
Most likely and it comes down to what Logan said in my opinion too I love OKC I think that also the Gordon Hayward move is going to make them better because he’ll eat up those Josh giddy minutes I think SGA is like a fringe top five player on the planet I think I’d
Have him just outside but I think he is going to do special things in this run I love jdub I love Chad but it does come down to they’re slight and when I think about the various matchups Minnesota is going to be able to give everybody real troubles with their defense and against
Any big physical team they match up really well and then I think they have enough of that star shot making in the half court what I’m seeing from Dallas right now it’s they have the best player on the floor and no they’re not a better defense than OKC certainly but in
Playoff environments I think that they can kind of bully an OKC right like Luca at 68 230 whatever he is I mean he’s a big dude Lou Dort can do can do his damnedest but when you consider then you have a more grown man like Gafford I
Kind of like their upside in that matchup too so I love OKC I think that they’re awesome but it’s a it’s shaping up to be a pretty strong West it is I’m really excited for it I am who are who do you think is the odd team out out of
That group probably whoever matches up with the nuggets in round one very true I and I didn’t think about that until I asked you guys just a second ago but like if the Nuggets don’t start taking the regular season like super seriously then they’re probably going to end up
Being like the four seed and they almost certainly will play one of these teams that’s a good point right so a lot of it comes down to like the Thunder might be in your opinion like the weakest out of the five and I agree I really like them
But then if they go and play I’m not going to name a certain team because I don’t I’m not starting that beef if they go play let’s say a team that’s not quite as strong yeah then maybe they can get it done I hope so dude because I think Shay is so
Good and he’s so fun to watch a first round exit no matter how good he played I don’t want to see those conversations I don’t I don’t want to see that discourse let him get to the second round and lose in seven to whoever at least dude sheay hate is the craziest
Thing in the world to me Shay is amazing there any reason to believe why it won’t translate you know it’s like I I get like playoff numbers it’s like he come on man what about his game doesn’t translate like think about it the most valuable thing you can do in those
Playoff settings is consistently get to your spots in and around the rim but not be so specifically dependent on oh man I’m just a downhill athlete I’m a Russell Westbrook or whatever and if you build a wall then I might struggle because I’m forcing finishes I don’t have that skilled shot making from
Floater range from mid-range to beat you SGA is a guy who gets to his spots in the paint no matter what but then can kill you with the turnarounds can kill you with the step throughs the touch shot making like whatever you throw at him he has a counter for I think he’s
Going to be amazing but that’s a good point that you make about the seeding like the Thunder are going to be in all likelihood a top two seed well they could be the three seed I shouldn’t say in all likelihood because the margins are slim but they’re not going to be in
That four five slot they just play too hard in the regular season and they’re too good so they might not have the most intimidating matchup but who knows that six seed could be the Mavs that six seed could be the Lakers who are tough it
Could be the Suns who are tough like to me they are the team that has the most playoff question marks compared to some of these other ones but it’s going to be fun dude it’s gonna be a blood bath yeah all right so we’ve done a
Little bit of talking about Luca and the Mavs and I think that he for a long time has been the answer to this question but I’m interested to see if that has changed Logan we’ll start with you if you were to start an NBA franchise with
One player who would that guy be uh for the eighth year running I will be selecting Carl Anthony towns as my franchise building block good choice it’s going to happen it’s going to happen mhm I’m just waiting on it I’m just it’s all going to come together uh
It’s going to formulate I don’t know if this is the copout answer I feel like this is probably the new wave number one I’m taking wemi I’m going to take wemi as my franchise building block like um there are other guys that I would consider Lucas on on that short list
Sgaa is on that short list wholeheartedly like you say Fringe top five I’m ready to just say top five with SGA man he is unreal can can we have a quick conversation I want to know which of these names you’re leaving out for SGA uh s above are we going fully
Healthy are we going fully healthy yeah probably Luca SGA embiid okay something like that it’s so freaking talented man if I can push back healthy Kawai to me in a playoff environment is still there I I would I mean healthy Kawai but it’s like healthy
Kawai you know we have to put that we have to preface it you know and Steph it’s still tough for me to leave Steph out of there damn yeah actually that’s why you go with The Fringe go with The Fringe gives you more margin he’s six SGA six I can’t
Put him above Steph Steph’s still him it’s close so SGA would be on my short list Luca Anthony Edwards I think ant is going to reach this top three or maybe best player in the league I’m so confident ant but I mean what wemi is doing right now and
You can just see how easily everything is going to come to him the I I expect wemi to be so well-rounded that you just don’t have a counter for him like I think he’s going to defensively I think his frame is going to fill out and I
Think he is going to be a stout fluid 74 and I’m not talking rocked up or but but thicker you know where he’s not getting moved around by big guys and he’s going to be so long that his size is just overwhelming defensively and he’s not
Just going to get moved around and then offensively you see everything the lob catching how easy it is for him around the rim how long he is to get to all these different spots uh the shooting stroke the skill with the ball handling and now that you’re seeing the
Playmaking with the basketball IQ like he is the total freaking package with these overwhelming physical attributes I just see a player that is not going to have any holes in his game where we can throw two or three guys at him and uh try to lock up his scoring and then he’s
Going to be an elite playmaker and he’s going to be setting up his teammates like I just I so easily can see wemi being the best player in all of the NBA and even if he’s not he is still going to be one of the best defenders on the planet and
One of the most efficient offensive players on the planet that’s enough for me to buy in right now number two for me probably would be Anthony Edwards but I’m going to take wemy number one whoa ant over Luca for you it’s close Luca would be three SGA 4 I ants wow
Ant’s gonna be him man I I just I think so all right Matt who would you build around I would take wimi I mean I I think you have basically two options right maybe three you can take jokic who is the current best player in the world and
Young enough towear it’s like okay like I can still get some work done you can take Luca who isn’t the best player in the world I don’t think he’s better than yic but like he’s pretty darn close very obviously can be the best player on a championship team there isn’t any
Question about it and he’s he’s pretty young or you can really swing for the fences and say Victor wanyama right who’s incredibly young but he could go down as you know I don’t think there’s any this is any stretch like he could go down as best player ever he absolutely
Could he’s he’s that level or he could at least have one of the highest peaks ever I don’t think there’s any question that that’s within the realm of possibility for me what I’ve seen from wimy this year the way that he’s developed uh the level he’s been at on
Defense and what his offensive game is turning into I don’t have the guts to bet against that so I’d go Victor Wim Yama uh I mean if I told you right now that Vegas was making a line for M wi Bama is he going to win multiple
Defensive players of the year you figure that yes would be you’d say yes would be ridiculous minus money right the like like the question is like is this guy going to be the best defensive player of all time you know that’s that’s that’s the big question
With him and and the offensive game too I agree it’s like well it looks like he’s developing every aspect a pretty serious amount the shots looking a little bit better you know he’s good off the ball he’s good on the ball he’s attacking these different ways and like
Yeah he needs to get a little bit stronger and like yeah he’s still just a rookie but there’s a world where he is a defensive player like we have never seen before and that nobody has ever been able to like come close to even theoretically matching and on offense
He’s a super skilled 7 foot4 player with a well-rounded game like dude and I just do think that’s going to happen I do think it’s going to turn out that way maybe there’s some risk of like can he stay healthy mhm for super long and I think that would honestly be maybe the
Best argument against it is like he’s really slight maybe his frame never builds up Luca and joic you know are particularly healthy players in a particularly unhealthy era and maybe that should be something that you value more but I’m going to go with Victor Wim
Yama I think the health is a good point and it’s not to me like oh my God there’s this historical precedent of guys who are 73 plus they always get hurt a I think we’re in a different era in terms of medicine and B I’ve never seen
A dude who is so proactive about taking these preventative measures and making sure that he is absurdly flexible like doing everything he can to protect his body like wemy does and he’s been really healthy this year like even his little ankle thing where he was on the minutes
Restriction for a while I mean he was dropping 25 points in 20 minutes he looked great they’re just being careful cuz he’s their he’s their franchise Cornerstone and they don’t have any reason to push him because they’re not a serious basketball team it is wemy for
Me now and every year that I can remember having this conversation like on our show Logan since for sure Luca’s second season in the league he’s been like an easy answer for me you make a good point Matt about like yish just clearly being the best player in the
League but to me does that outweigh having nine more years of Victor w b no it it doesn’t I’m just saying I I think I guess I could see the case for that maybe some teams yic depending on like where they are but yeah I remember you guys give Giannis at all
Too I mean he’s not better yic yeah I don’t think I would to be real with you I mean he’s great I think he could win another title I think if you were building a team around him that’ probably be pretty cool that wouldn’t be
So bad yeah um no it wouldn’t but I I think joic has a game that probably is going to age a little bit better and I think he’s better right now and it’s tough for me to pick against that agreed on all counts and I just don’t see like
The path to Giannis really getting better at this point I think that we’ve seen kind of stagnation in the playmaking I think that we’ve seen there’s just nothing there in terms of skilled touch shot making and that’s not going to develop at 30 for him so
Between those two I think it has to be joic but like I do see the case for joic because I remember I I was taking like 32-year-old LeBron in this question seven years ago I was like he’s so much better than every body else I would just rather have LeBron but that probably
Wasn’t the right position that was probably a bit shortsighted I would have rather taken a full career of a Yannis or a yic starting from that point versus what we get of the last you know seven years of LeBron as incredible as they’ve been but I think it comes down to what
You laid out Matt this guy has clear potential to be the defensive goat and he has the clear potential to pair that with an offensive Superstar skill set like I just want us all to think for a moment about how valuable a regular season player a Rudy gobear has been
Because defensively he’s going to make you a top five unit on that side of the ball really regardless of who you put around him then think about making that guy three inches taller giving him a wingspan that’s a few inches longer making him significantly more agile in
Space and it’s like that dude is going to propel you to Elite defense every single year and is going to hold up better defensively in those playoff environments even though I think Rudy can get a little bit of excessive criticism for that and Rudy has made his
Allstar appearances on the back of that while being really inept offensively wemi is again a more imposing athlete a bigger Target around the rim while also having like arguably Wing fluidity when you’re talking about ball handling and pull-up shooting and this playmaking that is already so impressive he just
Has the ability to surpass Luca in terms of the number of ways that he can dominate the game I think Lucas off to as great an offensive start to a career as we have ever seen and I don’t want to undersell that because it is insane what
He has done every single year elevating the guys around him but at the end of the day he is still a guy who you have to play a certain style of basketball with and he is going to be quite ball dominant and I think there’s little
Adjustments he has to make in terms of playing away from the ball to like absolutely maximize his value he’s still probably a top three player on the planet but if we’re talking about like him reaching that goat tier kind of conversation but he’s never going to be able to have a significant positive
Impact defensively whereas wemi I mean is going to be the perfect defensive player and then offensively is going to be able to fit seamlessly alongside anyone like who is the star who I could say you’re pairing wemi with and it wouldn’t work like you wouldn’t pair him
With a five long term but even if you did like at it would work like he has that level of insane versatility and if you pair him with a lead guard what he’s been doing for the last two and a half months now since he moved to Center per 75
Possessions he’s averaging 27 13 and five with six stocks per game on better than League average true shooting he’s doing that with the Trey Jones Show right no other highlevel offensive threats on his team as a rookie bro knowing that he’s going to shoot the
Ball better he has been quite good as of late but like more stuff is coming in terms of perimeter skill we’re seeing him run pick and roll and it’s like oh man he shoots 42% on pull-up threes and he can also playmake over the top of these coverages if you hedge what are
You going to do with that guy like it’s hard to conceive of how great I think he’s going to be in this league and that is nothing about Luca I legitimately couldn’t have imagined that a player this great would come into league and lock knock Luca off of that pedestal
Because it’s like every step of the way oh he’s arguably the greatest second-year player ever offensively and through six years he’s been as great offensively as anybody we’ve ever seen but we’re just looking at a different Beast here we’re looking at a one-of aind guy yeah I mean that point about
The r go bear defense stuff it’s like you know the whm inyama defense alone is probably going to end up being a Hall of Famer Rudy gobear is a Hall of Famer based just off the defense and we’re arguing that wimy maybe could be better than that and the whole you know
Offensive game I I just I’m I’m totally boted to wimy I have no no doubts about it outside of maybe the health does get to him but I’m just I’m looking at a guy who’s got the potential to be the best ever I am and and I’m I’m taking that
Carson that might be the best so like succinct sentence that I’ve heard on wemi I also cannot conceive of how good he’s going to be I of all the things that he’s going to do so well I because we’ve never seen it wem’s One of a Kind bro he is he’s
Legitimately One of a Kind bro well said man it’s impossible like I watch him do stuff every night and by the way I watch Luca do stuff every night too where I’m like what the hell how did he throw that LW from that angle how did he throw that
Skip pass how did he make that shot like the touch the playmaking it’s unbelievable but what’s so terrifying about wemi is he’s doing this things I can’t conceive of and some of it is just a lot of it is just Raw gifts literally just catching a lob nobody else on the
Planet could blocking a shot nobody else on the planet could like Luca has had to perfect these aspects of his game to do these jaw-dropping things wheny came into the league with advantages that nobody else can match just because that’s what he was born with dude and
Obviously the skill is crazy but the defensive range he has is just no one’s even come remotely close to it no one’s even come like like s % of the way there it’s it’s it’s just a completely different animal it’s it’s really crazy so yeah
I’d go with it is and he’s gotten so much better in four months of his rookie that’s the other thing it’s like maybe the one thing that would scare you about those gifts is like well if he didn’t develop and development’s not linear but like man it’s look pretty linear so far
It’s looked pretty darn good so far it’s insane it’s one of the craziest if not the craziest within a year leap that I can think of seeing from a rookie we’ve been talking wemi a lot recently but my god dude he just boggles my mind I bet
All the Celtics fans are upset that we didn’t take Jason Tatum that discourse has been cracking me up as of late he’s 19 he’s 19 how did we not take Tatum dude the Tatum is simultaneously the best player on the planet but we also want you to acknowledge that Jaylen
Christ stops Drew and Derek white are all all stars it’s like all right congratulations on winning 76 games this year Boston like I’m not sure all those things can be true simultaneous ly but they’re not a super team that’s what I’m saying they’re not a super team they’re not a super team
Didn’t seen a lot of talk about that I I don’t know yeah it it it amuses me we don’t need to talk about Tatum right now I do think he gets elevated a bit into some conversations that he doesn’t belong in because the team is so great
And I think the Celtics are great it’s just like Tatum being the best player on the best regular season team doesn’t mean that he’s niika yage you know get in on the action with DraftKings Sportsbook an official sports betting partner of the NBA new customers who
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Nerds the crown is yours let’s talk about some teams who we think aren’t really getting enough shine right now Matt who is like the team you look at and you think they’re being slept on they’re not getting enough credit for what they’re doing I mean after this
Three game wedn knew the Hornet end mean just you just got to say Charlotte don’t you I I mean with no no I actually had a tough time answering this one I I think unlike other leagues uh maybe not other leagues because I mainly just pay
Attention to the NFL I think the NBA and and the community around there is like pretty good at measuring how good team is just maybe because you play so many games and you have so much time to talk and think about it like okay those five
Teams I named in the west earlier do you think any of those teams are like really super slept on no not in particular not really uh maybe D is because they just changed their roster but I think people are acknowledging it yeah or you know and then it’s like you
Got like the Suns no people think they’re pretty good I think we all agree and know they’re problems are like the Lakers same thing I think maybe New Orleans is the team where it’s like yeah they’re pretty darn good they’ve been playing some really good ball their defense looks good and offensively uh
They’re really starting to to figure it out um especially with Zion getting more involved I was going to make a big point about this until the whole JJ reic drama dropped today with his whole video and how many views it got and whatnot um you
Can’t talk about it now no I can’t talk about it now I mean I I I I agree with him Zion being you know the the Creator being the on the ballmore has been really good right um and I I think as he gets healthier and as he starts to you
Know like get some games in a row and as Ingram does the same thing it’s like okay people were really excited about the potential of this very team like last year or a year and a half ago or two years ago I can’t remember people they were like the favorite team in the
NBA and it’s like dude they’re still here right this is still the same group of guys pretty much except you know now you’ve got maybe a couple extra folds there with like Jordan Hawkins and what he’s been doing um as sort of a movement shooter he’s been really really fun to
Watch and I was watching him with the um not the skills challenge the rising stars he’s got I know that’s not the most competitive game in the world but he’s he’s got a a couple of moves in his bag I I think he’s his game is going to
Grow into more than just being like a Dun and Robinson I really do um but I I I think I think the Pelicans are a team where it wouldn’t shock me if all of a sudden they get into a playoff series with a team that’s like supposed
To make the second round and all of a sudden it doesn’t look so easy yeah yeah I think they’re my choice too wow yeah they’re like the one team I mean I think that you really hit the nail on the head Matt it’s like there’s not a lot of
Teams who don’t get a bunch of coverage and shine and are winning a lot of games and I feel like even we’re culpable of this like we haven’t talked that much Pelicans but they’re playing really really well and I don’t view them as a team that has like a title ceiling so
Maybe that’s part of it but I do think that they’re really good I mean they’re eighth in net rating this year they are 19 and 11 with Trey Murphy in the lineup who was hurt to start the year and Zion has been looking like Zion as of late
There was a little bit of a stretch earlier in the year where he was a little bit passive it felt like maybe he didn’t have his full athletic pop yet but he’s played into that shape he’s been playmaking really well doing some more of that primary ball handling stuff
In February he’s 256 and six and I am just endlessly Amazed by his versatility the number of things that you can do with fully healthy Zion like it’s just incredible obviously he’s this ridiculous transition weapon but the sheer force that he has as a driver out of pick and roll attacking mismatches
Out of the post obviously he can dominate anybody one-on-one but then if you dig he’s certainly a good enough playmaker to kick out to Shooters in isolation that first step in strength combo and vertical athleticism he’s just so crazy crazy good and I feel like that’s starting to get acknowledged now
But it’s been a little bit lost throughout this recent stretch of the year and maybe they don’t have that title upside because I worry about how Dynamic can they be offensively as a team that doesn’t have a great shooting ceiling right it’s not that they have guys who can’t shoot but it’s okay
Valent Tunis is not a guy who wants to be living at the three-point line nor is Herb Jones nor is Brandon Ingram nor is Zion and when you have that sort of limitations in terms of dynamic shooting and you also don’t have like a tier onea
Guy I wonder okay how are you going to overcome these juggernauts but when you’re talking about being just like an unpleasant first round matchup they they have multiple star shot creators CJ being your third option is pretty damn good they are big in the front Court they have some physical dudes with Zion
And valent chunis out there they have some really good supporting wings with herb and Trey Murphy they defend well as a team like they check a lot of those just good team boxes and I think it’s not like there’s some big gap between some of the teams that we do talk about
More and New Orleans they’re not my favorite like Darkhorse out west but I do think they are the ones who get the least attention for how well they’re playing and if you guys hearken back to a couple of years ago uh in the first round Phoenix versus New Orleans when
Chris Paul went out for a little bit that was a series where New Orleans did push Phoenix now granted uh Chris Paul is out for a little bit in that series but also Zion Williams is not out there in that Series so you know New Orleans
Gave them a run for their money and they’re not even at full health and that was a series where I was like man Phoenix is reeling you know they’re on the ropes like New Orleans might steal this thing I I think you guys put them
In the exact right tier they belong in I I don’t think they’re real contenders I don’t know if they’re going to make a Western Conference Finals run or anything like that but they are underrated the biggest reason I I don’t view them in a different light like you
Were saying that cuz they were dude I took the bait too I was like man this team’s going to win 50 wins they going to be three4 seed yeah I was all in uh I I I want them to get like one more role player one more like scoring guard
Off the bench I don’t know if that can be Jordan Hawkins I do want to talk about him for a minute he hasn’t been super efficient uh as of recently hasn’t been playing great but I don’t think he’s just a spot up guy like that guy is
A I think he’s going to be a really special spot-up player one day and if it is that six-man fill it up roll or just a complimentary offensive piece it he doesn’t just have a really smooth shooting stroke and he’s not just good you know curling around screens this is
A guy who’s one hell of an athlete that if you can create him an advantage and get him a Runway or or have a guy running at him like he can he has a little little bit of that creation where he can get to the hoop and jam and yeah
More a he’s I think he’s got an interesting uh ceiling I guess because I I I want to see how the creation does grow for him and and how he can do off the dribble because if he becomes sort of like a sixthman guy like you said but
He’s also a super strong movement shooter I feel like that’d be an archetype of player that you don’t see a ton of it’s not super super common and it’d be it’d be something that’s super valuable specifically in this lineup like you guys mentioned where you have McCollum where you have Brandon Ingram
Where you have Zion Williamson creating advantages for him but also when you have lack of shooting in other areas and the big difference to me is what you guys said it’s that Zion Williamson is going to be out there if Zion Williamson is in a playoff series it’s like who can
Hold him I think it was friend of the show uh yic Yar and Pablo escobal shout out their show uh state of the league you guys can check that out YouTube wherever you get your podcast they do great work but I believe both of them said the same thing it’s just those
Singular athletic like first movements with Zion if it’s the step if it’s the contact like uh I can’t remember which one of them said it but absorbing that cont on our show absorbing that contact and then going up trying to meet him at The Rim he just you have to have such a
Specific defensive archetype and have these physical attributes to even match him you have to be strong you have to have that vertical pop and it’s just it’s really freaking hard Zion’s a tank and if he is healthy in a playoff run there’s a lot of teams that don’t
Have that one defensive weapon that you can turn to like he’ll just bully a lot of guys uh in matchup so I don’t know if I pick them to to upset a team but there’s a chance man I mean and they’re going to like I said with that sun
Series we all know how playoff basketball works man that one guy goes down that you can’t have go down and maybe the Pelicans pull it off dude they’re a they’re they’re definitely a good sleeper team it’s I was I was thinking about this the other day this
Is not really that related I can’t think of a single time where a team has lost one of their like top two or top three players in a playoff run and then figured it out anyway no that’s like the closest the closest ever was the 2019 Warriors still getting to the finals and
Frankly I think they could have won without KD if clay didn’t also tear his ACL in game six but yeah it’s it’s very very very rare yeah it’s like nearly nearly impossible I’m trying to even think of like like the single series like the the Nets were really close who
The MTH the M lost Luka for the M lost Luka for one series Brunson yeah three games and then he came back mhm no it’s really tough I’m trying to think of examples throughout league history that’s that’s why I brought it up on here because I know YouTube would be my
Best hope of figuring that out because you can’t really Google it you know well actually you know what Phil shenir was hurt for the 78 title Run for the bullets so of course he was their uh their fourth best player he wasn’t out there no it’s really hard to do dude
It’s really hard to do when you said you were going to bring up something unrelated I thought maybe you were going to given a Eternal Sunshine take or something no you had this look in your eye yeah I’ve already brought up the Hornets one time I’m Fair I’ve done my
Part Fair who’s your choice Logan are you the Pelicans too no my my team would be uh probably the Suns I just think in I don’t know around the league I just think that uh like Matt was saying about Dallas I think a lot of people aren’t
Really considering them to be real title contenders and not that they’re really uh you know not that they don’t have their own flaws we’ve talked about this extensively about Phoenix that we worry about them reaching that high enough defensive ceiling but I’ll stick to it with three offensive creators this
Caliber with the spot up guys that you can theoretically have alongside them with the improvements that they’ve made depthwise and on the wings defensively I can see it for Phoenix now again their fatal flaw is the Reliance on the mid-range shot if you guys go to cleaning the glass it’s legitimately
Comical looking at these uh Kevin Durant 100 percentile of long mid-range shots Devon Booker 97th Bradley Beal 93rd um their lineups together are comical to look at too at these discrepancies like they’re in the 96% tile of long mid-range shots all three of them on the court together 16.5% of their shots come
From there uh nearly 40% come from all of the mid-range uh but they’re also super efficient and so like those are tough buckets and I worry about them settling for a lot of it but I could see the Suns getting to a Western Conference Finals again the the measuring stick for
All of these teams out west that we’re talking about is eventually beating the Denver Nuggets I think that could syn their ship against Denver but to me just I don’t know a lot of people aren’t really talking about the Suns making real noise it is the Clippers it is
Minnesota it is Oklahoma City it’s it’s everybody else and I think Dallas and Phoenix have just as good a shot or better uh than some of those teams at making a Western Conference Finals run so I think Bradley Beal is going to have to play a little better I think they’re
Going to have to reach an average defensive ceiling but I I’m in no way any means ready to count out Phoenix from actual contention this year I think a lot of the ways that people talk about them like if you just check Twitter and nothing else you’d
Think that they were maybe like a 10 seene or something yeah yeah and they’re not they’re really not that far off but I I do think that people are maybe aware like they’re their flaw of just who they’ve got around those three guys it’s just so so weak and their issue of
Pressuring the rim like Kevin Durant is in the third percentile of players attempts at The Rim like KD has been KD just doesn’t get down hill anymore man like it’s it it’s staggering like how much he just Slams on the brakes and pulls up and and again he’s so freaking
Long and he’s got such good tough shot I mean it’s like a layup for him those mid-range attempts but but it’s not literally like a layup that’s the thing sometimes that shot leaves you yeah in those tough in those tough that’s why Kevin KD will have those games where
He’s 14 points 16 points and you’re like damn but again they have other guys they can rely on that’s their fatal flaw but the sun’s still could be overwhelmingly talented enough to to make some noise I don’t dislike the Suns and I think that maybe for having two I would
Say top 10 players and then Bradley Beal is your number three they don’t get talked about as much as you would expect but when I compare them to the Mavs cuz we had this conversation with Jason a couple weeks ago before the Mavs had made their moves and I said that I
Preferred Phoenix I think that I would move off of that now because of some of the volatility that comes with being so riing on the mid-range shot making for Phoenix because I think the Mavs would have the best player on the floor in that series and Luca’s just more
Consistently Unstoppable because he gets where he wants he can physically impose himself as a scorer and then leading to playmaking Opportunities like that and now I think that the Mavs are bigger in the front court and they’re more physical there and they can potentially defend at a higher level it’s not going
To be a big difference either way so Phoenix is in that next tier for me but there’s still some pretty clear boxes that they’ve left unchecked really the same ones that have been their question marks all year all right we got to talk a little bit of hornets because the big
Debate the one thing everybody cared about in relation to Charlotte before this year was the Brandon Miller scoot Henderson debate and Matt I know that you were on team scoot how are you feeling about that now I feel pretty good about Brandon Miller I mean he’s
Looked really good yeah as far as godamn right you do okay all right see here’s here’s here’s I I’ve backed myself into a corner with this because it’s like my opinion on it is just like it’s just not there yet we don’t know how good scoot is yet really and and for me
To sit here and be like oh well clearly scoot sucks like I just don’t believe that things are starting to get a little bit better for him and like I still fully believe like this start is not telling me that the outcome I thought he’d have isn’t going to end up being
There but at the same time I don’t want to be like yeah scoot’s still better while like he’s playing like this and the Mah Hornets fan uh so it it’s it’s put me in a in a tough spot I’ll say with with Miller I I’m really happy about a lot of
Parts of his game uh the mid-range has been there a lot for him uh he started to finish a little bit better uh his his handle has been incredibly good for a guy his size so far uh he shown a lot of flashes on defense he really really
Cares which I know might seem like a ridiculous it’s hard in Charlotte man it’s hard in Charlotte you have to realize how Monumental of an accomplishment that is uh when you play in Charlotte um and he’s really but he’s been like a a vocal leader for the team
Even as a rookie um and and while and then three-point shot has been really good for him I still have some questions like where is his playmaking really going to get to uh that makes him like a super high-end like number one option cuz when we picked him second
Overall in a great draft like that’s absolutely the standard and we have you know uh is is he going to get to the rim more consistently he’s also a guy who doesn’t take a lot of his shots inside he has a pretty heavy mid-range diet which has been good again especially
Good for a rookie but the more interior stuff he can get going the better in my opinion and as a whole Charlotte’s problem has been not enough guys well especially with Lelo not enough guys getting to the Rim Yeah so I want to see that but so far I’m really happy with
Him and somebody told me like I’m not going to sit here and argue against anybody saying Miller’s better it’s pretty tough to but I I think with scoot the advantages that I think you could have you know scoots a higher level athlete I think he’ll be if if he
Becomes what I think he can become the playmaking will be better maybe the advantage creation will be better just off the dribble um yeah and I think his shot really could help him turn into more than just sort of like I’m going to get at the rim and kick out and not do
Much else and he has been shooting a little bit better as it’s got at least from distance I don’t think his shot mechanic is like horribly off like not all not at all not at all with Aon Thompson where it’s like you watch him it’s like oh man if the shot gets there
He’s going to be great and like I agree when I watch him man that guy is I wonder if if you ranked NBA athletes where he would land um it’s a great question somewhere in the top five it’s it’s it’s truly ridiculous and you can see it immediately but the shot is like
Completely needs to be reworked entirely you know yeah I don’t feel that way with scoot whatsoever so I I I honestly think and and scoot’s also younger and he’s also shorter and really we probably should have I I look at what scoot is doing now like we should have seen this
Coming we should have known that this was going to happen we’ve seen shorter guard you know the shooting needs to come along he’s 19 years old like yeah it’s probably gonna be rough year one and it would have been pretty shocking if it wasn’t um but I I I guess I it’s just
Inconclusive for me is what I wrote down I don’t want to make a call it one way or the other until we actually start to see what scoot turns into I mean I’ll go ahead and I’ll make a call on this I think Brandon Miller to
Me is a guy that’s G to take a a big leap in year two concretely like I think that where he’s at already the progress that we’ve seen him make this season Brandon’s one of the most advanced and fluid rookies that I’ve ever seen I I always say when we bring
Up Brandon he’s butter smooth Matt he’s butter smooth Brandon Miller man the guy’s game is just it’s smooth it’s very aesthetically pleasing and you talk about some of his shortcomings potentially uh I think one because of how great Brandon already is as a generational shooter like I think he is a
Generationally great shooter uh over these last 10 games he’s 245 and two on 4842 splits 61% true shooting again 42% from Deep great pull-up shooter like you mentioned from the mid-range and off movement he can shoot from distance he can shoot with his feet from anywhere Carson mentioned this in his video
Breakdown that he did on Brandon Miller he’s currently on Pace for the second most three-pointers made by a rookie ever that’s just behind Keegan Murray I mean that’s rare company so when you’re looking at that uh and I don’t want to sell him short as an athlete either
Either you talk about a man and Scoot Brandon’s one hell of an athlete too maybe doesn’t have that Elite he’s not like that though well no I thank you I was getting there he doesn’t have that Elite burst cuz a men does jump off the
Page man it’s one step gather to the rim it’s nuts it’s AB like his the way he transfers that power and energy in one step is ridiculous so Brandon doesn’t have that explos it but he’s still a good vertical athlete and I think that when you have
This if he can weaponize his shooting into getting guys to bump uh because you’re just going to have to respect him as a shooter which makes everything else open up on the court where he can attack Closeouts and open up space uh and playmaking wise I wouldn’t have any
Questions about his playmaking one he doesn’t have to be a great playmaker now because fingers crossed hopefully for the next few years he has lamelo that can carry the playmaking load but I to me Brandon’s going to be a good playmaker with the ball handling it’s
Just going to come with time I think he’s a guy that at his Apex is averaging five plus assists per game it’s going to be a I hate doing this because that’s his goat but it’s going to be a very Paul George art to me where over time
He’s just going to grow into his playmaking yeah I’m so enamored with Brandon he’s so much fun to watch and I I think his impact is just more multifaceted than scoots I think he’s a better player right now I think he’s more impactful defensively he’s got a
Bigger Longer frame he can guard on Ball and off he provides value as that helps side rim protector and he can just fit more seamlessly alongside other stars I don’t want to sell scoot short I think you’re right uh I wouldn’t sell your stock either Matt I think scoot’s going
To figure it out I think he’s a young first year guard that’s going through the growing pains but Brandon Miller is that guy man and I’m telling you I think year two Brandon Miller we’re going to see a Bonafide leap where he’s over 20 points four boards four assists he’s
Doing it efficiently with good defense and you hit another big personality thing on the head man Brandon gives a [ __ ] he cares he wants to he wants to win games he wants to be better he wants to be a better player with some of these young guys and
I hate to pick on him you know it’s like Jaylen green there’s some lack of self-awareness there that I really don’t like with Jaylen green with Brandon Miller I’m just like he gets it man he gets it right now I feel you’re saying and and really the the big things for me
Is like I I look at I look at who like the really good number ones are and there’s just not a lot of guys who are not high level Playmakers right that’s that’s true and the guys who are not highle Playmakers like when we talk about like we think about you know the
Guys who are trying to be number one on championship teams you’re not a high Lev playmaker it’s a huge problem and very rarely does anybody ever get it done without being that you know so when I see Miller I see a guy who’s doing some some he’s not like some horrible you
Know just totally tunnel vision crazy but to say I guess I just don’t feel it’s a guarantee Hees that JP but I do agree it’s like good he needs to be is probably he doesn’t need to be on scoots level as a passer to really reach that
Next level and and there’s a lot of examples of guys being where Miller is right now and growing into that and with the attitude he has and what he’s shown so far this season you probably should expect that so if you told me like yeah he’s going to continue to grow as a
Playmaker and in that same way and he’s going to get to the RIMM more because really he has to get to the RIMM more I the Hornets cannot do it with with lamelo and Miller if neither of them want to get to the rim it’s it’s bad
Hoops but yeah if you told me that then yeah I think I’d be on team Miller it’s a real good argument I think that your criticisms and concerns about him Matt are very valid when you are talking about holding him to that Superstar number one on a
Damn good Contender kind of team then I agree and I don’t think he’s going to be that I honestly think that his limitations in terms of pressuring the rim I don’t really see how he overcomes them he can get better there cuz right now he’s outside the top 150 in
Restricted area makes per game he can grow into his body more he can get a little bit stronger but he’s not going to develop a first step out of nowhere and he’s probably going to be a bit slight like that’s just his build and I never see him being an elite playmaker
But I do think he’s going to be a good playmaking wing and that’s the thing the number of dudes who come into the league at 69 in super gifted scores and can also playmake that’s a very rare thing because normally your whole life Your Role has
Just been to get Buckets and you’ve been so good at it that that’s been your top priority and then you get to the league and you realize I really need to be able to make the guys around me better to maximize my value and that just takes time that takes running offense that
Takes being a primary ball handler over years when I look at at the arc though in the typical starting point like Logan makes the PG comparison Brandon Miller’s further along Brandon Miller does some stuff for I’m like wow okay like he keeps his head up you give him a late
Shot clock situation there’s one pass I can think of and he throws a beautiful lob to Nick Richards like just the Comfort making a law pass that’s not normal for a 69 rookie so I think he’s going to be good there but I really do think dude and it’s ridiculous the
Number of times I said this but like the best version of Brandon Miller is going to look a lot like the best version of Paul George the one difference is PG is a better athlete and so there’s a little bit more of that Rim pressure but I
Think that Brandon Miller is going to be perfectly suited to be like a number one on a solid to good team or a great number two because he just has so many awesome complimentary skills like he is such a great peer shooter on or off ball that works with everybody I do think
He’s going to have a plus versatile defensive impact and there is some offensive matur dirty stuff with him in terms of his handle the sort of Herky jerky change and Pace he can play with and those playmaking flashes where I’m like he’s going to be damn good on ball
He has those couple limitations where it’s like I don’t think he’ll be a superstar but if I were to pick who do I want to build a team around between him and Scoot I think about the best version of Brandon Miller and I’m like that guy is going to complement basically whoever
I can put him with I think about the best version of scoot and I’m like maybe that looks something a little bit more like a jawar and there’s differences right scoot is stronger I also think he needs to prove he can be the level of like touch shot maker with floaters that
JW there’s differences in their game but sort of the fundamental mold of downhill guard inconsistent pull-up shooter good playmaker we’ll see what his effort is defensively I just don’t think it’s super easy to build a great team around that guy and if neither of them is going
To be like a number one on a great team then give me the guy who’s the great number two and I think that that is easily Brandon Miller 10 times out of 10 10 so I think that that’s it I thought that Miller was a slightly better
Prospect but to me the tiebreaker on top of that was that positional archetype factor and that you have lamelo and Scoot and lamelo I think would be weird whereas Brandon Miller and lamelo you’re like they’re going to compliment Each Other Well we need Lamela to play before
He worry that’s him and I’m start I’m starting to get I’m starting to get real real nervous about all the ankle brace stuff I guess MH with with Miller it’s like the Paul George comp is always there for him yeah but maybe Brandon Ingram is a little bit closer to what ends up
Happening and if that’s the case and you’re like Brandon Ingram or John Morant I’m going John Morant because I’m not nearly as low on sort of the rim pressure guard who can kick it out guys because I I think scoot is is really a really really really special passer a really really
Special athlete and I think the shot I think the shot is going to come along for him maybe a little bit more than people expect I think he’s going to end up being like a true honest to God League average shooter and I I think I’m not
Saying like 33% I’m saying like 36 37 and and being able to take a serious volume of them and that I would take that player certainly over a Brandon INR but I don’t know if Miller can’t be better than Ingram I kind of think that
He can but I don’t think he’s going to be Paul George so it’s like where does he fall along that line like how much of you know a modern version of sort of like the rim pressure guard can scoop me it’s a tough debate it is it’s it’s
Honestly I love how you put that like it’s kind of the spectrum right like where do you fall on the bi to PG Spectrum where do you fall on the I don’t know what examples you want to use for yeah what what is what is the low ja
Jaada Russ I don’t know but I think he could be a better pull-up shooter than Russ but like maybe 2017 Russ okay that level of Pull-Up shooting and maybe he can have more impact defensively Russ is probably even a little bit more of a special athlete there’s no perfect one
Toone comparison but I like how you put that cuz like that feels like the range of outcomes although I think that scoot it would be inaccurate to say that jawar is the low end for him like jaw’s really really good I think that that’s closer exactly but like who is the low-end
Guard like that it just doesn’t exist either you either have to be really good or you are not going to be in the NBA cuz you got to be a St play like that I’m trying to think about like the hyper athletic dudes who have just just failed
In that archetype and I’m sure that there are some in recent years who aren’t coming to me but the reason that I think Brandon Miller is going to be better than Brandon Ingram is because D’s archetype never fail no I don’t think that that’s it I don’t think I
Believe that’s exactly fults is fults close I don’t know man I’m trying to think about just guards that haven’t his body was wrecked yeah here’s what I’ll say about why I think that Brandon Miller is going to be better than Brandon Ingram the dynamic three Point shooting specifically that’s part of the
Problem with bi is if you’re not going to pressure the rim you need to have another way where it’s like I can get Buckets in bunches and when it’s not from Beyond The Ark that’s a problem and I also do think that there’s a bit more
Of that change in Pace and his handle Brandon Brandon Miller’s handle is crazy but I mean I I don’t think that that’s like an impossible outcome that he would be Brandon Ingram I just think he’s going to be better than that Brandon Ingram but like a super duper High Lev
Shooter mhm pretty darn good player man you know I think both these guys are going to be pretty pretty good I think that’s a good comp and I want to take up for scoot to one thing about scoot that I think is kind of getting lost because he is playing in
Portland with you know a subpar roster they’re not winning games not a lot of eyes on them scoot is still really good at getting to those spots and those shots aren’t falling right now like the ones at the elbow but he gets to them with real ease and again maybe players
Are giving them to him more because they’re like oh I’m going to let him take a shot instead of getting all the way downhill to the rim the biggest thing with scoot isn’t mechanically it’s him being balanced when he’s shooting scoot really struggles it like he’ll just start swaying on these shots and
It’s really hard when you’re fading to really get if if scoo can get better at just going up straight up and down on his jumper I I think it’s going to translate because it’s not broken at all and again he’s getting to these shots with ease I think it’s going to come
With time man I think a year or two we’re going to see the Matt’s master plan is finally going to become fully realized and his scoot agenda can start getting pushed thing like even even if even if I end up be like like let’s say scoot
Doesn’t better I’m not going to sit out here and be like I told you guys so the guy on the hor sucks like yeah no you’ve pinned yourself into a corner here but you’re doing it in the pursuit of Truth we can respect that no because last time
I was like you know I might just support my guy right it’s like yeah I did that with Bryce young instead of CJ stra BR I’m like well I’m just going to back you know it’s like I don’t want to put myself in a position where I’m like
Going against my own team and it’s like I thought Bryce I still think Bryce could be pretty good that’s a whole another conversation um yeah but yeah man you can’t win yeah and Scoot can be great like scoot has special athletic traits I will say I’ve
Come up with the example of the failed scoot archetype are you ready yes Dennis Smith Jr oh there you go yeah I knew that there was one in there somewhere and it’s like scoot is a little bit more of a special athlete but Dennis Smith Jr special athlete special athlete but
Could never figure out the jump shooting and the offense was therefore inefficient as a whole so like that’s the thing a guy like Brandon Miller is always going to have a role because of the complimentary things that he does a guy like scoot if it doesn’t work then
It really doesn’t work but I think it’s going to mostly work I really like both these guys I thought it was a special draft class and I thought that they were both pretty great prospects all right one quick NFL discussion before we let you go Matt just cuz this has been a
Thing as of late Justin Fields unfollows the Bears on social media starts following some Falcons and it seems increasingly obvious yeah I know if you can believe it that the Bears are going to take Caleb Williams at number one just because that’s the right football decision Matt who do you think is the
Team who should go out there and take on fields I made a video about this yesterday I’m not saying that there’s no team that should think about doing it there’s more um there’s more teams that need a quarterback than than good quarterback options and
Yeah I I I like Fields a decent amount I do it I’m you know I’m AIO State guy right like he’s awesome but the reality is is that like you draft a guy in the first round and you’re looking to trade him away after three years he’s not a
Franchise quarterback the hit rate on quarterbacks turning round after year three is incredibly low regardless of circumstance and Fields is probably not as bad as like a lot of those other guys but man I don’t think I would give up a bunch of draft capital for um you
Know a guy who only has one year left and then you got to pick up the fifth year and then you know even if you’re right then a big contract comes up really quickly so you don’t get that rookie like I might I might rather roll
The dice with with one of the lower tier prospects in this year’s class that being said I think there’s situations where he could do good obviously the Vikings because they have all these receivers and the offensive line played well last year it’s like okay that would be cool and maybe kurk cousins doesn’t
Come back I don’t know what the whole deal with that is and how that’s looking Atlanta is a big one um he’s from around that area um and you you can’t run it back with Ritter I’m afraid God bless him though as he says it in the Cincy Sweater Man in the
C that 2020 year that 2021 year was a special special time how many times how many times was see Little Caesar’s player of the week 17 um no sometimes I would say we didn’t have one at all right so he actually only got it like
Six times I think and he got bened and it was it was it was a rough year bro um yeah I I think the Falcons could make sense but honestly I kind of think Pittsburgh I kind of think Pittsburgh you get him there with Arthur Smith who
Is really creative in the Run game and you let Fields use his biggest weapon which is his I mean like he is a next next level Runner oh yeah and then we get sort of like a little bit more of the Easy Button stuff which Arthur Smith
Likes to draw up uh I I I could see that working out decently well now the problem that Arthur Smith had last year is that he had somebody who is not obviously not nearly as gifted as Justin fields and Ritter but who has the same you know flaw as Ritter in the sense
That takes a lot of sacks not good at not taking sacks and I I wonder if the Steelers are looking for something a little bit different but I could totally see Smith saying I really really like the Run game the Steelers Run game and the running backs looked good at the end
Of last year you add fields and Arthur Smith into that mix where you know say what you want about him he can you know draw up some run schemes that could get pretty exciting that’d get pretty interesting uh that’s a good strong organization you know that that might be
The spot you’re uh you’re preaching to the choir here Matt and I think that I think that one you need to send fields to a situation where he has other Personnel that can alleviate some of the pressure off of him all three of those destinations Atlanta Minnesota have a
Lot of skill position and then Pittsburgh it’s a strong culture that is going to want to run the football down the throats of other teams that is our identity that is what we found at the end of last year uh we eclipsed a 100 yards rushing in eight of the Steelers
Final 10 games in two of those games we eclipsed 200 yards rushing and acquiring Fields is like acquiring a role player in basketball to me that does different things right I already have Duncan Robinson so let me get uh a good Defender right let me get Dylan Brooks
This is not an Apples to Apples comparison but it’s let me get a guy that gives me a different skill set right a guy that’s going to do something different Kenny picket and Mason Rudolph are very similar in their archetypes right they’re not going to do crazy
Things they’re going to do simple stuff they’re going to protect the football uh Justin Fields has a rushing Dynamic that the Steelers have not had in some time and I think he’s somebody that the city could buy into as a leader now Fields does have things he needs to clean up if
He holds on to the football like that I’m going to be screaming at my television bro I cannot do that if he is eating unnecessary sacks and that’s the one thing that Kenny picket does well uh I know Kenny picket gets ragged on a lot and I’ve had this conversation with so
Many people Kenny picket is a low-end starter to a high-end backup but you can win games with him because he doesn’t shoot you in the foot he doesn’t make these costly mistakes where he’s holding on to the football too long he gets rid of the ball quick he makes quick
Decisions and he doesn’t turn the ball over and so Fields is doing these costly things putting the ball In Harm’s Way holding on to the ball too long you know that could cost him in Pittsburgh and there’s another aspect of the QB situation in Pittsburgh that I want to
Hit on I think the Steelers are doing themselves a disservice if they don’t give Mason Rudolph a shot I think Mason Rudolph has earned a shot at the starting job and I don’t buy into what the Steelers organization is trying to Pedal to us they are not running into
Next year with Kenny picket and Mason Rudolph as the only quarterbacks on the roster you can put that thing to bed right now and you can tuck it into there’s going to be a third quarterback and he is going yeah man you can put that thing to sleep you can put the read
A time story yeah put that dreams as well I mean everything yeah yeah yeah a little good night Moon action there is no way in hell they are rocking with picket and Rudolph is the only two guys in the room but I don’t want Russell Wilson the look man Steeler fans are not
Going to buy into Russell Wilson that stick is going to be dead by week three okay uh I don’t want Ryan tanah Hill he’s washed could deal with kurk cousins but I don’t want to pay him a lot of money I think Fields brings a new
Dynamic to the team I think he would be a good leader and I think the fans would buy into Justin Fields so I really love him in Pittsburgh and again the big thing with Fields is you cannot Lamar Jackson this kid okay he is not Lamar he’s not going to Patchwork Flex Seal
Duct tape your entire offense there needs to be structure in place but I think with Pittsburgh you get the structure with Arthur Smith I think you have the personnel with Pickins with DJ with Fri Mo with the running game and offensive line and I think they have a
Culture that you can just plug Fields into so to me I I’m wholeheartedly with you Matt I think that fields to Pittsburg should be the deal that both sides explore I have complicated feelings about the idea of fields to the Steelers because there are some parts of it that
I like I do like pairing him with Arthur Smith and then you think okay really run first scheme that’s where he’s going to succeed and it’s not that they are totally lacking in receiving talent I just think oh we got a number one we got
A number one I know I know you feel that way do you have a high-end number one this year oh yeah oh yeah the name his name is George Pickins and the g stands for get that boy the ball man yeah yeah I don’t know man I just person do you
Have any counter for that I don’t have a counter to that unfortunately so Logan is once again just washed me in a debate I just think Fields is a guy who you really need to set up to succeed and the Bear’s situation was the antithesis of
That right he was having to try to overcome the situation consistently but I think there are too many things that can go Haywire I think there’s too much potential for him to hold on to the ball for too long to uh just abandon structure in ways that yes can be
Special but also can be problematic and I just don’t think he’s a good enough thrower of the football I don’t think his pocket presence is good enough and his decision- making from there for him to like be the backbone of an offense I think he’s kind of a guy you want to be
Able to plug into a system with a bunch of talent and then he can do some Dynamic stuff but he doesn’t have to carry the load and that’s why I’m so intrigued by Atlanta for him the difference is Atlanta’s picking at eight so they could potentially get their guy
The top three quarterbacks are going to get off the board but if they wanted to trade up two three spots maybe they could get Jaden Daniels there I know some people think the commanders are going to take him at two I think that would be a disaster but then it’s like
All right we’re getting a lot of the same athletic traits that crazy scrambling ability and I think a bit more of an accurate a bit steadier pure passer and Daniels who I don’t necessarily love although I did see him a lot at ASU I think he’s definitely a
Tier below May and Caleb but I still think I’d probably take him as a rookie over what we’ve seen from Fields through three years but like just having that sort of line beon the weapons in the receiving game M I think that would be a situation where he’d just be better set
Up to flourish in Pittsburgh I worry like if you can’t protect well enough if you can’t run the ball consistently enough I think that he could kind of just crumble because I don’t think on his own he’s that good I think he’s a starter I don’t think he’s a franchise
Guy especially not if you’re asking him to be like that Flex Seal for an offense which I think in Pittsburgh he’d kind of have to be cuz they suck at scoring points no offense this bro I’m just saying is that not true dude we had met Canada for half the Year
Bro I don’t know what you wanted us to do no I know but then you guys had a game where you scored what was it 13 points without him and I think the city threw a parade cuz you actually moved the ball no comment from Logan on that dude
Mason Mason Rudolph put that team on his back man we figured a little something out here’s the thing dude I mean I think Pittsburgh really has the potent I don’t I don’t know where you’re getting that notion Carson that he’s gonna have to go above and bro we won 10 games with
Mason Rudolph and canny pick it our defense is the backbone of the team our running game is the backbone of the offense and if we get a center if we get an offensive guard our line is going to be menacing like we’re getting back I’m really excited for next year where we’re
Getting back to Old School Steeler football defense clouded dust run the ball down their throat where I think we’re holding teams to 20 points a night if Fields can get us and I’ve said this for years man if the Steelers can get three offensive TDS a game and that’s
Not asking too much three drives where we March down to the end zone a game it’s over I think we’re reaching a point where I I don’t think Fields has to go above and beyond Forest I just think he has to execute and in a lot of ways I I
Think we can tailor the offense to him man I I think Pittsburgh I think Justin fields to Pittsburgh like makes a a ton of sense man the reason that I say that he’d have to pick up the slack it isn’t that your offense has to
Be great but if you want to actually win playoff games Logan not sneak in because yourown well that’s what I’m saying your vision is clouded like like you guys are scoring 18 points a game obviously that is not just on the quarterback position good day on a good day that’s what I
Mean and I know that the the Falcons offense wasn’t much better but it felt like they left so much more meat on the bone there was so much more talent that wasn’t tapped into that’s all on Arthur Smith right that’s not when I blame any certain other players here I don’t like fields
To the Falcons because as a Panthers fan I don’t want to have to do it to him yeah I don’t want to ruin ruin his life you know we’re going to do what we need to do leave them out of it that’s all I’m saying man yeah that’s fair but I I
I see what you’re saying about the Falcons and the Vikings too it’s like there’s just two situations you could go to where it’s like a lot of talent around you and that would be good but a brilliant mind too dude yeah I I wonder if those teams it’s
Like I’d rather have Daniels than Fields um me too because I I I think he’s you know I just take somebody who hasn’t you know gone through the three years and still not shown anything and those guys are a lot more in range I will say
Though the other thing or in range draft wise uh than the Steelers are we were picking a lot lower the thing that worries me though is is is one of the negatives about Fields is that I’d be scared to run him a ton because of the injury stuff that
Doesn’t scare you about Jaden Daniels no it it does as well but I’m saying for the Steelers specifically um I guess it would make me a little nervous where it’s like you’re bringing him in for the sake of running him a lot but he has a little bit of an
Injury history you know he did at Ohio State and he has with the Bears and and he didn’t run quite as much and I kind of think that was part of the reason so yeah I guess it makes me a little bit nervous um and I don’t know I
I wonder what the Steelers end up doing if they try to like if a guy falls to day two who they really like a quarterback if if they look at that there’s no point to me there’s no point to me that’s a wasted draft pick if the
Steelers go back to the well we already blew one first round Draft pick on Kenny like it to me the Steelers have so many other holes to address free agencies the only area where they can go like if you draft another QB and he’s not the guy
Like we just we need offensive line we need linebacker depth we need another safety another corner like there’s just too many other holes that the Steelers need to plug to where they can even afford to invest a a late round draft pick and to the injury thing it’s like
To me if we can retain Mason Rudolph or Kenny pick it and have Justin Fields as the starter and he gets hurt well we’ve got the best backup that you know one of the backups that you could ask for you say what you want about Kenny or Mason
If starters and franchise guys their dream backups Off the Bench Mason’s been there four or five years and I have a ton of confidence of him just stepping in and executing and not messing it up and the same goes for Kenny so I I don’t
Know and I think I think we need to context with fields too and a lot of these guys at quarterback that don’t pan out Fields just needs a fresh start you know we need to see him at the end of his rope and tenure with the beers you
Could just see a guy whose confidence was shot and a guy who didn’t really have an identity in a game and I think you can make that criticism about him after 3 years as a starting QB he doesn’t have an identity but I I put a
Lot of that on Chicago as much as I do Justin Fields I think Fields needs a spot it’s it’s to me it’s like Baker going to Tampa Bay you need a team that’s going to say hey we are going to accept you and your flaws and we are
Going to buy into you as our leader and we’re going to support you so I’m not fully ready to sell my my stock on Justin Fields uh I think he can work in different spots and I think he needs that fresh start and that new opportunity he’s better than Kenny and
He’s better than Mason I don’t know about Mason man Mason’s a Mason’s a solid QB dude why you would want Fields if you think that Mason is at least on his level I think they should compete I think we need to see them duke it out in
The preseason man all right all right we’ll see how it happens Matt we are sorry that we keep you so obscenely long every time you’re just so damn fun man yeah you’re just so damn I just have and to think you know five minutes into this recording I thought about just turning
My computer off and going and doing something else how glad I am I didn’t do that thank god dude oh that would have been the worst Matt and I were also worried before we started recording we were waiting for Logan because Logan thinks he’s so much better than us he
Can keep us waiting so much cooler we worried he might just hop on give us the bird and then hop off just to make a statement so thank God everybody showed up thank God everybody stayed around if you guys aren’t already following Matt everywhere L but it’s spawn hour on Tik
Tok right just spawn hour and then there’s corporate spawn hour of course there’s three different spawn hour accounts you should you should check check them all out listen to the yeah yeah spawn hour M on Twitter and and whatnot yeah yeah obviously go listen to the stay hot podcast with other friends
Of the show Theo and Bladen phenomenal phenomenal Al stuff already they’re getting into the NFL off season which we’re not doing as much of so go get your fix over there really awesome podcast and anything else you want to plug Matt before we let you go not in
Particular awesome thank you for coming on dude this is always so much fun the people love it and it was a delight when we were in Vegas Matt said he looked me earnestly in the eyes and he said I want to come on the show again soon you said
Whenever I want to come on to let you know and I’m not doing any of that I’m not doing any of that Hollywood Coastal Elite crap where I say but I no no dude because I’ve been gotten on that before it’s like oh yeah just let like you know
It’s like oh okay will and then yeah they’re just talking they’re just saying whatever yeah and I thought you were a coastal Elite I did but you you proved me wrong dude it’s so huge for the brand it’s so huge for the brand to disprove the coastal Elite misnomer but it’s it’s
Too fun to have you on man so you know that offer that offer it’s great to come on all right well you guys probably know where to find us listen to the Pod across audio platforms watch the full shows on YouTube with video also there we’re doing some more trivia stuff the
Trivia Gauntlet we’re doing once a week where we go head-to-head and we are doing some video essays video breakdowns we talked wemy today we talked Brandon Miller we’ve got some in-depth videos on those guys uh you can also check out our merch if you want Logan’s got the Hat as
He always does that is at the.com we got the flags behind us and if you want to join our Discord that link is at the link tree across social media bio so with that as always one last big shout out to Matt I’ve been Carson breber I have been Logan
Camden I’ve been mat Spa hour and this was nerd sash
The nerds are joined by Matt Sponhour of the Stay Hot podcast to discuss whether Damian Lillard, Giannis Antetokounmpo or Doc Rivers is most to blame for the Milwaukee Bucks’ recent struggle. Then, they dive into whether or not Luka Doncic has lifted the Dallas Mavericks to have a championship ceiling, if Victor Wembanyama is the player they’d most want to build around, and whether Justin Fields to the Pittsburgh Steelers is the right fit.
Timeline
0:00 Who’s to blame with the Bucks?
21:30 Do the Mavs have title upside?
39:08 Which NBA player would you build around?
54:50 Most slept on NBA team?
1:09:42 Miller or Scoot?
1:27:40 Fields destinations
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29 Comments
More bad news for the Bucks. They've actually played one of the 3 easiest schedules so far and will finish with one of the toughest down the stretch. I'm no longer sure they'll even have home court advantage in the first round. They might because of the injuries to the Sixers and Knicks but it's gonna be tight.
And not to mention, the Bucks signed Gallinari. I have season tickets to the Wizards, he is legit dog shit at basketball 😂
Dallas does not have the best player in a series with OKC
You guys are gonna be shocked when Luka starts falling off in his early 30s. He is not gonna have that level of longevity.
im building around #1 tatum #2 wemby #3 sga
It's dame. Their just using doc as a scapegoat
Last Boy Scout vibes. The jig is up.
W
Would like to see yall bring in @HoopVenue
Bad
This is the craziest any nba porpoganfa has ever e been
my two favorite podcasts lets goooooooo
i think scoot could b like a kemba walker type guy as a comp. i think he’s not quite as vertically explosive as ja although he could b but i still think he’ll b a multiple time all star and b a lead creator on a good team even if he’s not THE best player on that team and i think he’ll b rly rly good
“It’s not Blake’s fault!”
Disney villain was spitting
Giannis wanted Griffin, yet now he's saying that he's relieved by having Doc because he had to spend so much time and energy being a coach as a player. Because it was Griffin's first year as a head coach. What a goof – why'd he want a first year coach then? Should've gone with Nick Nurse. But Bucks have given Giannis so much power. They're not going anywhere in the playoffs this year.
Johnny Flinn was what I thought about when I thought failed atletic guard
Bobby Portis has been getting away with murder this season. By far and away his worst year as a Buck. Net rating both as a team and of every guy individually plummets with him on the floor (even when he’s not in for Giannis), he has lost SEVERAL steps on defense, and he’s been a complete black hole on offense.
Go watch any Bucks game and count the amount of times Giannis and/or Dame is on the floor and neither of them even touch the ball because Bobby posts a guy up and takes a heavily contested turnaround jumper. You will be shocked. He has been, no exaggeration, one of the worst 6th men in the league this year, and he gets absolutely 0 blame because the big names on the team haven’t been quite up to snuff. I watch every bucks game and have consistently been adamant that he’s been arguably the biggest problem on this team and it’s been unspeakably frustrating to see NOBODY mention it because he’s garnered such a good reputation as a buck over the years. His regression has been steep and severe and that’s being generous.
If you would’ve told Bucks fans that Giannis wouldn’t be a Buck after the 2024 season when they got Dame, they wouldn’t have believed you
Day 11 of asking for you guys to bring on Anthony from esquire sports
Overrating the mavs to a stupid level
The obvious key to beating Denver is have fantastic perimeter defender to slow down jamal and let Jokic do his thing
Kawhi is better than SGA easily.
KD is better than SGA id also take Booker.
Can Logan say something nice about my bucks please (we deserve all of this for hiring doc)
SGA will prove everyone wrong in playoffs that’s only reason ppl hate on him the advanced numbers like epm say he’s the best player this year and it said that about Jokic the previous three seasons
That Giannis quote was straight trolling. If you've watched enough of his pressers, you'll know when quite comfortably. As for the Bucks' issue: part Dame, part Doc, part awful fkn roster construction.
If Dame doesn't turn it around, Giannis is going to have to avg 35 in the 1st round just for us to get swept in the 2nd.
I am sick of everyone acting like things didn't happen in an order that had a snowball effect , at times it could have been handled better but this is still a team that can make a run.
1. coach Bud fired just for change
2. They do not see any big roster moves and plan on just "running it back"
3. When hiring new head coach Griffin was not The Gm's first choice and Giannis like Griffin so they went with him.
4. Griffin pulls a "alpha dog" move on ast coach Terry who could have been huge in that he coached Dame and had ties with The Bucks. Everyone was made over that.
5. As a fan I did not feel like there was any chance with Griffin in the post season , he lost the team.
6. Front office/Gm want Griffin gone anyways and like Doc so make the move and Giannis doesn't do anything to stop It.
7. Khris has been in and out and is all other rant but a huge reason they are having trouble as well.
rotation , as a fan I did as well ,they had Jae just coming back , They are trying to get Pat mins to get him playing better , again stuff that does make sense.
Stop the disrespect on Giannis.