What the Milwaukee Bucks need to do in the second half of NBA season to reach championship caliber
The point forward podcast Milwaukee Bucks chatter from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel hello everybody it’s been a little bit of time the Milwaukee Bucks in the midst of the All-Star break it has been an eventful All-Star break for the Milwaukee Bucks both in and around the All-Star competition and elsewhere
Which we’re going to talk about lots of interviews lots of interviews maybe we’ll have some fun with that but uh once again I’m J.R Radcliffe host of the show and I am joined by two bucks bucks reporting luminaries with the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Jim ozari who is
Already on the road in mines ready to uh ready to see this uh game against the Timberwolves on Friday night and Lori nickel columnist for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and uh let’s let’s start with a Vibes check the second half is about to begin Lori I definitely want
To hear from you because we haven’t had you on in a minute where you how where your head is at with the Milwaukee Bucks they’re three and seven under Doc Rivers I think there’s clearly a little bit of stress going into the break and maybe even coming out of it it
Feels I said on the last last time we talked to Jim a little bit of desperation based on some of the moves they made making some of the some of the way things are feeling but but how do you feel about this team just blank check going into the second half throw
That record out just throw it out boys they had the flu they had pneumonia they had men what no not that what’s the other one um so they they took this horrible horrible road trip that was so epic I wrote about the NBA scheduling practices you know Chris got hurt Brook Lopez was
On paternity leave you and then he comes back and surprise surprise you don’t come back from you know having a baby in your family and just like jump right back in I mean there’s just so much stuff and then oh they changed coaches three times from the regular coach to
The interim coach to the new coach and pull him off a golf course and said go on this road trip so to me that record is just it it’s it’s a little bit of a edgy thing it’s something that should be a gut check for them but to me I don’t
Count the record as far as the vibe I I have questions for Jim like have they really not practiced once is today the first practice on the whole break to me that’s telling I want to know how that goes and how you know with the first
Game back tomorrow and you know we have a lot to play with here with a lot of people on this team who talk now so we have a lot of good stuff yeah yes it’s true doc river is among them it is very different from the M it’s different from
Adrien Griffin it’s very different from Mike buer we’re talking night and day in terms of Chatty head coaches uh but Jim I I guess I will let you answer that question I believe we’re recording this on Thursday it’ll be the Buck’s first opportunity to practice that doesn’t
Seem unusual over over a break like this obviously some you know several members of the organization were involved over All-Star break in Indianapolis but uh but what is what is sort of the schedule of things as we get back get back going here into Friday’s game yeah Thursday is
Their their only scheduled practice you know during this break uh leik Beasley damiel Lillard Janis Dumbo Doc Rivers and the coach is all in Indianapolis so you know they get back Wednesday or Monday excuse me um so they get a few days off you know and and yeah the team
Decided to not practice in Milwaukee to to just go right on the road um and do it in Minneapolis so you know we’ll see you know can’t predict exactly how long that’s going to be if this is Doc’s one chance to get a fully rested group and
They go three out hours and they go live and just sort of whatever happens in the game Friday happens because it’s about this practice don’t know that but um it’s it’s one of the few you know they they they did squeeze one in on the road
Uh during that road trip uh before they played Dallas um coincidentally or not uh led to a victory in Dallas um you know maybe they get another one somewhere along the line before before the week uh you know where where the playing Tournament begins so yeah it’s
It’s you know whatever they’re going to install or do they’ve got they’ve got Danilo galinari with the team their 15th person uh and whatever you know they think he can add so um you know that’ll be interesting now in terms of the overall stuff J.R yeah it’s uh it
Is a different group to have you know a podcaster Beyond thanes especially one that’s going to go back and forth with with former teammates or Doc Rivers players um you know Damen likes to talk doc likes to talk so yeah it’s it’s the the look whether they start winning or
Not I mean people are gonna have a lot to say especially in that locker room yeah I do want to talk about some of the uh some of some of the interviews and and sort of like how serious are they or not but uh but just in general Lori to
Go back to you know not to not to make Vibes the center of our conversation here but there there is some drama around this team that wasn’t there before and and that includes the addition of a guy like Patrick Beverly who you know seems to be very happy here
And I don’t want to suggest that he’s going to create drama but he is a agent of chaos that’s the guy that they brought in it probably if you look at PJ Tucker as the same type of player in 2021 that’s worked for them before but
But he’s a different type of player and maybe a different type of Personality you’ve got the doc River situation that the change Midstream is a big thing and just just in general more more people talking more transparency which is good for us but maybe not necessarily how a
Well-oiled machine always works so do you do you feel like the Bucks have cted this drama a little bit do you feel like maybe they’ve gone out of their way in the past to sort of keep this from happening and and and now they’re in a different place a different level of
Desperation when it comes to their title window or maybe maybe I’m overthinking it you know maybe it’s just they’re looking for good players and if those players are Patrick Beverly or if or if the coach is Doc Rivers we feel like that’s what’s going to get us to
Championship that’s all that matters how do how do you sort of sort through that yeah it’s really interesting that you know Doc Rivers is kind of old school right I mean he is 62 years old um in press conferences he barely lets most reporters finish their sentence like
He’s in charge you know he’s going to answer the questions he’s going to tell you things and and it’s his Viewpoint of things and I was reading an article about him that published in the athletic before he went took the Philly job and one of the things that the the former
Players they remarked on is that you know Doc Rivers will call you out he will tell you your role and he will tell you in front of everybody so it’s very out there it’s it’s not um hidden there’s no game playing um I like that actually about Doc Rivers about if if
That I think basketball is a is a game of playing roles and knowing what you do and playing to your strengths and playing to the best so if he’s that kind of personality that makes sense the thing that was interesting to me was the Cabo statement I think that was a little
Bit risky um because he was so new to the team and because hey man you just got here you know like um to say something like that is risky it could go one of two ways one it could be a little bit of the direct sort of Confrontation
That maybe some of the people on this team need or it could alienate some of the people on this team and players check down or they get defensive or whatever and there’s just not been enough time the drama aspect of it that was going to happen anyway the drama was
Going to be introduced no matter who came in it was just whether or not it was going to be if we were going to get a front row seat to it or if we were going to hear about this months and months later but if you can’t fire a
Coach in January and not expect a lot of upheaval and a certain amount drama and again it speaks to what their expectations were for this year more than it speaks to the type of people who are outspoken at least to me yeah and like we said on the last podcast even
Even with the record being what it is three and seven going into the break with Doc Rivers there there has been Improvement defensively now we recorded that before the loss to Memphis which Jim you know I got really frustrated a couple years ago about that loss to
Houston which I think was during the 2021 Championship season so it absolutely did not matter but that loss in Memphis was bad against backups on a team that’s bad to begin with and they really struggled so yes that Cabo comment definitely JJ reic definitely
Made note of it and C it caught a lot of people by surprise but who boy was that not what you wanted to see now you were there for that and you T you talked to Giannis afterwards and posted at jsonline.com all of giannis’s thoughts some of them pretty introspective again
This is not unusual for him but I I won’t say he called out his teammates but he definitely questioned what needed to be done for the desire to win a Championship whether that was with him or with others and you know I think a lot of the push back is Giannis doesn’t
You know Giannis is having an MVP like season he’s crushing people it’s not good enough in the context of team wins losses but feels like Yannis shouldn’t be the one calling him out and yet maybe I don’t know he he’s he’s looking for more from his own leadership I guess so
What uh I want to go back to that before we get to the actual All-Star break what what what do you remember that con like what was that conversation’s high point to you what what really stood out when you when you heard him say those things so late at night after that Memphis
Griz’s lost yeah he uh it took a look it it takes Giannis a long time usually to address the media post game when he does talk and this one was was a little bit longer I mean almost everyone was gone uh except for a couple people you know he sat with
Josh Oppenheimer for a long time he sat with thosis for a long time um and clearly had this on on his mind and and something he wanted to say which clearly was building Beyond just you know a bad loss to the the g-league Grizzlies um
And it it it’s it was similar to the game in Houston where which was probably the beginning of uh the beginning of the end or hit the gas on Adrien Griffin’s dismissal when he was um more Angry in Houston with not knowing saying we need
To be coach better we need to you know need direction we need to know what we’re doing he also called out teammates effectively in that that rant as well um this one was a little more measured um and just the the do we want it element
Was very interesting um you know to say to to essentially say like we walk in feeling like we’re GNA win this game regardless or we just need to wait till the playoffs and we things will just happen because we’re us and we’re so talented um and it needs to begin a
Little sooner than that which is interesting because Lor’s been part of these post games where especially when they lose um the hnis will say well I don’t care if we win ah wins doesn’t matter you know we’ve I’ve won 19 in a row that doesn’t matter or you know
We’ve been to one seed and that doesn’t matter and then yet it does matter like if they were seven and three I don’t know if he’s sitting there telling us how much they wanted because he’s seeing maybe some evidence to that to that so yeah losing to Miami and losing look on
Monday again that Monday against the Nuggets he had set up on the podium and said he wish he had a few more games before the All-Star break because he thought things were going so what changed in three days well they lost badly to two teams that were under under
Staffed if you will so um and yeah and you know I had asked him about like how do you that that’s clearly um that’s an intangible how how do you get teammates to do something like that like play hard or want want to win and you know he just
That’s where he turned it on himself it’s like well I I can’t control that all I can do is you know um do more on his on his own part so um I think the vocal stuff and he has insisted he insisted that night that becoming a more
Vocal leader he thought has been important this year and and maybe saying these things publicly has been important for him to do Jr so um yeah I mean averaging a career high in points career high in assists um he’s not a Flawless player and he recognized that so again I
Guess you know um that’s his what he’s feels he should do I guess we’ll find out maybe maybe he has like a 405 and 15 triple double against Minnesota and and says you know this is what I got to do and and you all should follow so um but
Yeah you know to Lor’s point with Doc like the clearly he felt that he could say that um he should say that I think what’s interesting to Lor’s point though of will it work is then he also is the guy saying well I didn’t really think I should take this until the All-Star
Break and I didn’t think this was a good idea and so meaning the J River taking the job yeah yeah so maybe the messages have been mixed we’ll see some of these guys actually were pretty detached so maybe they none of them heard that so but that’s to be determined
Though at least on on that part of it I I want to interject a little bit about that doc River soundbite which first of all is just a sound bite you couldn’t easily find the rest of that interview so I don’t want to make it sound like
You know without without that context I feel a little wrong commenting on it I know certainly the rest of the internet commented on it but what I I I don’t believe him for a second when he says that he was hesitant about taking the job and like no you know I
Don’t know Doc Rivers and I know he’s trying to show professional respect for Adrien Griffin and I can appreciate that but come on you don’t if if you didn’t want the job or like even at hesitance to take over oh I don’t know the two you
Know two of the best players in the world with a very good Championship window you would not have done it you wouldn’t have left a very cushy ESPN situation of course he wanted the job so I I found that a little bit that one did
Rub me the wrong way a little bit but it is just one one little clip there’s a bigger context so I don’t you know I don’t know laori you wanted to say something about I have a question yeah okay so about that when I first of all
Jr you did a really great job if people should go to JS online and look at your gra of all the stuff that all the the tea that was spilled um on all St but Jim when doc River said I they shouldn’t have fired AG I don’t know what they
Were thinking he said this to the ownership and you said it on that podcast one thing I thought of did you ever report I know a couple of outlets reported back in January that doc was a consultant to the team is that something that you believe was true because it’s
Something that Doc Rivers and GM John hor denied so that’s my first question so yeah that was I I could not independently confirm that obviously you know the athletic is is pretty well sourced and those are some folks who um you know are generally pretty plugged in
But yeah that back Rivers was asked about that at his opening press conference and the thing about that Lori that and jar that I’m interested in he was asked directly you were an informal consultant and then doc says I was never a consultant and then yet said he has
Talked to Adrien Griffin so like I don’t know if that’s one of those um something doesn’t that up playing with language there a little bit like no I wasn’t a consultant but yes I talk to this person all the time I I don’t know um so but
You could see how then that makes things really awkward like first of all the coaching circle is tight in any sports and certainly in the basketball world and you know if he did take if Doc Rivers took over the position for Agri and Griffin and was was informing or
Helping or on the side talking or Consulting unofficially and unpaid as they made it clear in that press conference you could see where now he would want to kind of exonerate himself or absolve himself of getting him fired so that was the only thing that there’s
Things we know and there’s things we can speculate on and this is pure speculation but that was one thing that crossed my mind is like if you want to be on good terms with your coaching fraternity you know you you put it out there that hey I I wasn’t behind this
Firing in the first place or whatever he said that you had in your story Jr that’s exactly right and I I think history is going to remember this as the right move I I believe that I don’t have you know like who knows just a take I
Think history will remember this as the right move and as the move that the Bucks would have made in the first place if they had Damen Lillard when they hired Adrien Griffin I I think they they had Adrien Griffin coming into a very specific type of Team the team changed
So dramatically with the addition of Lillard and I think Doc Rivers makes probably more sense for this team and made sense in the moment honestly like he he’s got those Milwaukee Ties on top of everything else it seems like he was Avail he was available so I I feel like
He was the right guy at the time if this team were what it was before the trade I think Adrian Griffin seems like a perfectly good hire so I think that’s how history is going to remember this is they had to change course it would have
Been what they wanted to do in the first place and it was ultimately the right move but obviously the results are going to bear that out we’ll see we’ll see what happens there Jim I wanted to dovetail into the All-Star game itself because what a weekend for Wisconsin and
The Milwaukee Bucks I mean it started with like Bo Ryan Badgers longtime Badgers coach getting uh you know as a finalist for the for the N Smith Hall of Fame we had a couple guys in the in the rising stars game alandis Williams and Brandon psky psky I think I keep saying
That wrong but uh uh that was cool pjsk is having quite a year we that’s kind of a cool story over in Golden State and then obviously the big the big stuff Damen lard wins the three-point competition he defends his title then he is the game MVP albeit controversially
With Hometown guy Tyrese halberton Oshkosh native having a really good game as well continuing his Ascent so what what’s you were there for all that stuff great great stuff from jsonline.com from Jim uh in Indianapolis but you know rather rather I I recapped it there’s you know it’s an All-Star Game there’s
Not a whole lot more to say but like give give me your highlights give me your two or three things that really stick out that you’re going to remember from this experience um well the first thing and I wish it would have worked but I mean Alis Williams trying to dunk on Victor
Wban immediately um beautiful though you know hey he tried he got he made the bucket he missed the free throw but you know he’s like the fact that it went in was still a small Victory um I mean that would have been a highlight for highlights of all year so that was a
Good that was a he would have he would have immediately ascended to the NBA like I know he’s I think he’s on two he’s on a two-way contract with Miami now but he would have just it would have immediately converted to full-time contract if you dunk successfully on
Wemi so that was a good start um but that’s not what what people are going to remember on a broader level yeah I think well one thing this which I don’t think anybody will see unless they’re a Die Hard Pacers fan and they’re going to go
And look at all of like the videos of these things but for some reason NBA PR like interrupted Tyrese halton’s postgame press conference and then he like so much so that like they they he’s speaking he’s answering a question about the weight of being a franchise leader SL savior like it’s a
And he’s like into this like thoughtful answer about like and and it’s and it makes sense he’s in Indianapolis right it’s like of course and then all of a sudden this staffer puts an extra microphone on the table and then puts a chair next to him and starts rearranging
The stuff next to him so much that he stops and he’s look I didn’t see this and he’s like I don’t know what’s happening and then someone from the side goes we’re done that’s it and Tyrese is thoroughly shocked and says wait wait let me finish the answer so he finishes
The answer and then someone says we’re done he goes I’m done they like yeah you’re done and then he leaves and so that was it and no one asked like hey what did you think about not winning MVP it was the W like of all the people to do that
To I’m Al sorry it was was wild to me was it NBA was it NBA PR or was it his PR cuz I got cut off too asking some good questions about like the buck stuff when he was here Milwaukee and being a Wisconsin guy and he got cut off too
He’s done talking or whatever I’m like he’s a grown man can’t he talk can he talk if he wants to I mean it was a combination of this this rearranging of the furniture and yes Pacers PR was next to him and shouted we’re done but I guess I
Interpreted as it like he was just wildly disrespected and it’s over and we’re we’re done with this I don’t know that was wild so again I have not yet answered your question no this is great I didn’t know any of this this is wild those are the two fun weird things and
Then of course uh yes Damen lard uh winning three point on the last ball of the last rack um and you know to win that competition second year in a row um first one since 0809 uh one of I believe eight in the history of the competition to win two um
And then to win the All-Star game MVP pulling up from half court twice making them both um a couple 30f Footers so I I think we’ll see I we’ll talk to Dame and I’m sure if he drops 30 a night for the next week we will hear how that you know
Smooth some things out or whatever but I do feel like Jr and Lori he I think he wanted to put on a show I think while he was voted an Allstar he recognized he probably didn’t earn that mhm and then therefore wanted to earn something and show something and remind everyone why
He’s special um and it’s frankly things now the half Court’s probably exaggerated we haven’t seen a ton of 30-foot Damen Lillard threes you know we haven’t seen that um and now we’ll see if that plays in to the rest of the season but that stood out to me as someone who
Wanted the thing look when Giannis wanted to win it it was clear he wanted to win it like sometimes these guys make a decision and then everyone else sort of rocks with that and um maybe it was a little surprising that he he stole it as our colleague Greg Doyle wrote um from
The indie star from Tyrese halberton uh but I don’t know like it was cool we haven’t seen that from Dame really um and we’ll see if it has any effect or if it was just a cool moment the season yeah I uh I definitely got the same vibe
That he wanted to put on a show I mean people need to remember this is the first time he was voted a starter that had not happened in the Western Conference so in the Eastern Conference he gets that chance pretty clear that like Jaylen Brunson or somebody could
Have started over him you know that there there were certainly candidates to take that spot I was actually surprised when he was named a starter so I do think there was a little bit of like let’s not forget that I’m I’m pretty good at this I also as far as the the
MVP goes I loved Greg Doyle’s column and I love the fact that there’s a new chapter in the Pacers bucks rivalry I’m here for all of it let’s go I mean d was booed mercilessly after that I mean like there were enough Pacers fans there I mean they booed him during the
Three-point they booed bik like they boo yeah I mean doc was booed Giannis was booed yeah I mean they Pacers fans like spent the money they that was not a corporate crowd no I love it great great it’s good stuff it reminds me of 2011 when Prince Fielder in Arizona chose his
Teammate Ricky weeks to be in the Home Run Derby and then there was Justin Upton of the Diamondbacks the hometown guy who was not selected and oh boy were their booze and then Prince Fielder went on to win the MVP of the All-Star Game the next day is crazy stuff um it it
Felt spiritual successor uh to that I I think also the award I think is kind of decided upon in prior to the end of the game halberton had a couple buckets close to the end of the game that I think brought his point total pretty close to lillards he was still like the
Third leading score on his team but like he was over 30 but he wasn’t over 31 I think they maybe voted on that happened to Kareem once he should have won an NBA All-Star Game nobody remembers who wins NBA Allstar game no one cares but uh it’s Indiana Pacers fans they care and
It’s going to be fun um Lori I’m going to ask you also about Daman Lillard just in the second half and if if him being good is kind of the only ingredient that really matters here you know that you already have Giannis being at this level they’ve pulled up defensively maybe it’s
Just about Damen Lillard period but but before we do that the All-Star Game in general there were a lot of conversations a lot of conversations about how it’s gotten out of hand no defense team scored 200 points 21111 points that was obliterated the previous uh single team record I uh I’m curious
What you think I I lightly made fun of that because ultimately it’s an All-Star showcase and I just truly don’t care if guys are out dunking all day long that’s cool that’s fun my my kid loves it my middle schooler loved this game he was talking about it through Tuesday all the
Dunking and the half court shots and stuff but um but there was no defense that is that is not hard to dispute what do you think about it where are you at with the allstar game you mean me or yeah you how do you feel about barely
Watched I had had it on as wallpaper while I was cleaning my house I wanted to see how Dame did the fact that you’re eighth grader middle schooler that’s the target audience that’s I think too and that it’s it’s a it’s a party for the
People who did well in the NBA so that I that’s all I take it I take it none of it journalistically and actually you know again I’m the mom uh of this podcast I wish everybody could have had more time off to rest and get off their legs so I
Don’t love it I don’t hate it I don’t care but I wasn’t interested in any of that stuff I I maintain off my lawn get off my lawn I maintain the 2020 way it was was fine they had an Elam ending you know there was pandemics well actually
2020 that was before the pandemic so never mind but um one quarter basketball was so Elite they they did their three quarters they paid tribute to Kobe Bryant with this Elam ending and it was incredible high level you’ll never see it again All-Star basketball that’s what
You want I want three quers of them dunking and flying and taking half court shots and one quarter of Awesome and I don’t know why we got away from that I don’t know why that’s too complicated for people to appreciate I feel like that’s the way to do it but I don’t know
Jim real quickly how do you feel about the All-Star Game you were there you saw is it is it as disastrous as people make it out to be no and again I don’t yeah I don’t quite understand you know the Hing over this I mean now look the
Commissioner sets a tone and for a year the commissioner has has sort of predicted more competition and he frankly pouted on National Television when he handed jannis award like oh the East you won here you go and like walked off 211 to 186 I guess so like I I have
A hard time so like when the commissioner is trying to sell this thing to whoever media partner whichever media partner for something would it be like I get that um but from I’m with Lori like it’s not it’s not for me um I don’t think it’s for the hardcore basketball fan
Um and so if the LED screen that made you know the players green was appealing to some folks like great you know um it’s an All-Star game I mean the NFL moved to flag football finally right like sha Taylor is not there you know deting punters you know
Like uh the El amending you’re right J like that was fun and maybe if it was within a score uh it would have been cool the last couple minutes but yeah I don’t know I I don’t quite get the hand ringing either it’s an exhibition game
Yeah and uh the AL the The League sets it up like it’s Super Bowl and all of the players who are involved in the game though are the ones doing all the product pitches in the parties it’s not like the Super Bowl where all the other
Teams show up right and do all that stuff because you know the Chiefs and the 49ers are sequestered in their hotel like they’re not doing that stuff that’s a really good point yeah Giannis had Giannis and Dame were like I don’t know what they were doing but they were doing
A whole lot of other stuff that had nothing to do with anything than their own Pockets so like am I shocked that they were like wiped no so yeah I don’t know Jr it was I I I I disagree from our our basketball Brethren who just seem to
Really care about this because it’s just it’s not for us it’s really not for the players in a lot of ways so um yeah it it’s fine yeah uh sidebar Adam Silver has some According to some reporting yesterday some new stipulations for cities to host the All-Star game uh
Milwaukee of course we we hope is in the future plans even though uh you know they they missed out on this last cycle but now they need three star hotels or sorry three five-star hotels Milwaukee does not have five-star hotels what is going on what do you need those for
We’re about to host the Republican National Convention and now you need hotels and X number of flights flying to our airport just hold it in Los Angeles every year Adam if that’s what you want I don’t understand that and they’ve got to work around it because they’re
Not just going to not give it to Milwaukee after all of this like at some point Milwaukee is getting an allstar game he said that yeah yeah I’m sure that’s I don’t know I mean Indianapolis doesn’t have three festar hotels neither does no but they won their bid before
This like new stipulation so yeah I yeah maybe someone complained about the Room Service downtown Indianapolis yeah put it this way um there are not enough NBA markets that fit those parameters just briefly here and also a lot of those cities that do don’t want to host
The thing all the time right like in order to have it you must want it and you know not all these places want it so right yeah I I mean whatever that’s fine uh good reporting by our colleagues on at the Oklahoma um because Oklahoma City is is dumping more public money into
Their Arena right to to fix it up um so they got some the details on that and uh yeah I I I mean maybe it it punts Milwaukee down the line here but I don’t see how you know that prevents the city from getting it at some point yeah all
Right Lori I’m coming back to that question about Damen Lillard it it feels to me like we we’ve talked about a lot of the ways that the Bucks have backslid compared to previous iterations of this team specifically defensively and and yes their lineup has has changed a
Little bit but I wonder if it is simpler than that Damen Lillard has not has occasionally been the star player and then there are games where he’s just not himself and whether it’s like a comfort thing or whether it’s a fit with the other guys on the on the court I don’t
Know but like he’s not he’s he’s not Damen Lillard you know the the future Hall of Famer right now he’s just a very very very good player and I wonder if if that difference is the difference in the Bucs being a championship Contender or not right now I don’t think they’re
Anywhere close to the Celtics I don’t think they need to be this second but do you think it’s as simple as saying if Damen Lillard is his like best version of himself the Bucks are going to be contending for a championship easily contending with the Celtics for the
Eastern Conference how do you feel about that I don’t think it’s that simple I think it’s really really complicated because we’re asking a very established player to change how he plays and when he plays defense he can no longer excuse me he can no longer just like Shadow a
Guy or be in his face or even contests like if you’re going to play the kind of defense that Giannis likes and that previous buck teams have been known for it’s spots it’s funneling people from the perimeter down to Giannis and Brook in the paint it’s about establishing
Positions on the floor it’s about being really physical and moving people out of the way meaning the opponent and you know I every time I’ve seen Damen Lillard play and I just focus on him and his defense he seems like a very willing participant it’s just not the kind of
Defense that um has kind of the standard has been set here in Milwaukee with two really elite players in the back with Giannis and Brook Lopez and then with the really good perimeter defense that they’ve had over the years with Wes Matthews and with of course Drew holiday
So bledo even Eric bledo is a good Defender thank you so much so I yeah I forgot about him so that takes a toll playing that kind of Defense takes a toll on your offense that’s part number one with Lillard the other thing is is
Is you know again I get back to playing roles on this team and there was a point in that that Chicago disaster I don’t know if you remember Jim what we were down there we went together at the end of December and the the Bucks lost and they lost pretty
Badly I really think Damian could use Chris Middleton on the floor more often there was a play at the end of the game where Chris was trying to direct traffic and he was trying to tell people where to go Chris was doing what Chris does if you watch Chris and Giannis over the
Years they’re talking on the bench they’re still talking when they come on the court after an atto they’re always talking Chris Middleton was talking to Damen Lillard and Lillard walked off and walked to the bench because it was a timeout and lard was frustrated what’s the call I really think that’s not
Anybody’s fault when I asked Chris about that Chris was like you know time and place I need to get to know him I need to know when I can talk to him about things and when I need to back off let him do his thing that’s something that
Giannis and Chris Middleton worked out years ago you know in 2015 2016 Lillard is thrown in here what was it September or something I mean it was really last minute he’s he’s trying to blend in the expectations are different you know this is supposed to be where he gets his ring
And so you have all these other expectations it I don’t see how that cannot take away from the offensive end and then we could talk we could do a whole po podcast about how his offense Blends and complements what they already have here and he often mentions that
There’s two Alphas in the room well how does that work usually don’t have two Alphas you know so how does that work with him and Giannis I I cut them all a bunch of slack in this area because just as they were getting things going they fire the co and they
Change things and meaning getting things going a little bit between Giannis and Dame and then there’s this upheaval I think we’re all still wondering where the pick and roll thing is this magical pick and roll that was supposed to happen I swear I see it more with other
Guys than I see with those two so that’s why I asked you Jim about practice you know is this really their first practice back how are they going to pull this together I they’re great players and everything but I cut them a lot of slack
It isn’t as easy as it seems as Dame does Dame and jannis does Giannis and everything works out perfectly if they just play top of their game basketball is still a game of role playing role playing the bench has to help there’s support and they’re still figuring it
Out Jim I want you to weigh in on that as well and we can work in more about Middleton because he’s he’s hurt right now we don’t know when he’s going to be back presumably I don’t know if you have any sense of what that timetable would
Be but that’s also you know L can go back to that allor player and Chris Middleton still probably needs to be here for the Bucs to win a championship so so give me give me your thoughts on this I mean really quickly on Chris uh
You know stepped on that ankle um or the foot of Kevin Durant on February 6 as we record this it is February 22nd um so I mean look when it happened Giannis thought maybe that Philadelphia game coming up maybe there’s that home game against Charlotte the 27th um you
Know we don’t know you know the bucks when they choose to to not say anything things are not said um so we’ll see if Chris is here that’ll be a big step uh whether and then if he practices you know um but he wasn’t in any sort of
Walking boot after the fact he he wore it out of Phoenix um but it was still a pretty good sprain when he when he stepped on Durant and um you know we we’ll see if going to be able to get going here um and then maybe ramp back
Up a little more quickly than we’re used to seeing Chris Middleton ramp up and yeah he he is important yet again J.R we’re on a podcast talking about how important Chris Middleton actually is to them doing the thing they want to do um and and he does make life easier for
Damien and Giannis in this way um but Lor is 100% right it is more complicated than just you know as Giannis has been want to say very often we want Dame to be Dame um but that’s not like I don’t know if the Bucks would be cool with Dame
Being Dame meaning taking three or four 35 Footers off the bounds you know with s seconds into a shot clock right and maybe and who knows maybe we’ll see it may maybe maybe they do want that or didn’t know that they wanted it and he’s gonna have to start doing some of that
Um to get himself in a different space um you know yeah there there is a practice time and doc said you know that his his essentially two weeks on the bench these shoo rounds have been practices to a degree they’ve gone much much longer um yeah Giannis and Memphis had said and at
The All-Star break had said it’s it’s been draining you know to have these really extended shoot arounds where they’re doing some more stuff then they have to play a game um you know maybe they’re just exhausted mentally physically a little bit to play some of these games um doc admitted he probably
Couldn’t do that much longer so we’ll see we’ll see if what he says that that time has come you know where where those shootarounds can’t be that long um now I I will I will simplify it a little bit I can’t add much to what Lori
Said when it comes to the playoffs the Bucks will have the two best players on the court at any given time in the Eastern Conference and while um all of those things are true if it’s a close game in the final three minutes whether they’re running two-man
Pck and roll or not they’re still Damen Lillard and Giannis and no one has anything for them yeah so and maybe it looks like the Griffin stuff in the sense of you know what Dame we can’t have you play hard defense because we need you to make to
Score 12 points in the fourth quarter and I think that’s still something they’re struggling with you know Lori has written a couple times about Malik Beasley’s efforts on defense and that’s true and like Malik has to try and Dame has to try but at some point Malik can’t
Go one for nine if they want to go to the finals he can’t go one for nine from three and does that mean he can’t try as hard like that’s when they when they did this they did this and that’s I think what they have to figure out is to be a
Little better which they have become but then not be so you know not lose the specialness on offense is what they they leaned into so um again that’s all to be seen um and to a degree Jr it is as simple as can Dame make 43% of his shots
And 39% of his threes which we haven’t really seen yet some of it is that um and some of it is Giannis just being continuing to be you you know the best player in Eastern Conference so it’s it’s a little bit of it is that simple
To Lor’s point of it’s not that simple and I guess that’s why you hired Doc Rivers uh with you know 36 games left to to figure that out getting close to getting out of here Jim uh I feel like we should at some point mention Danilo galinari who was signed uh good
Discipline by us I feel like to maybe wait until 40 minutes have gone by I be not no offense to galinari who averages like eight points a game 8.3 points per game or something with Detroit this year he has not he’s not the player that he
Was a few years ago and we’ve seen this team sign guys you know who who’ve been bought up before and they haven’t really done a whole lot you know know some guys have Marvin Williams was okay I don’t know is there any reason like what when
Are we going to see him in what role I should ask if any if any like I don’t know is there anything anything to know about Danilo galinari I guess yeah um look I I think 15th person um was only playing 15 minutes a game this year in Washington
And Detroit blew out his left ACL for the second time in his career two years ago I I think he had signed with Boston right um and it’s been several years 20189 with Doc Rivers 20 points a game in 30 minutes as a full-time starter long time ago um especially when you’re
35 coming off your second ACL look I I don’t know if he was on a minute’s restriction with that 15 game I do know he wanted to play for Doc again and he feels like he’s going to play more than 15 minutes a game so that will
Be interesting to see whose minutes he takes uh he doesn’t play defense anymore um he shoots threes still at a pretty decent rate um so that’s a thing so yeah we we’ll see maybe if Chris is going to be out for a little bit there’s yet
There’s still some room for him I mean he’s a stretch big he’s 611 uh or 610 and he’s going to shoot threes he’s not a rebounder he’s not a Defender he’s just some people don’t really call him a three-point shooter so much as he was a
Scorer back in the day and those are two different things so I guess we will find out um but generally speaking Yeah like you know he could be a guy who helps them get to the playoffs and then maybe plays a role in a series somewhere but
Yeah I don’t I don’t think I mean yeah Pat Beverly was the guy they went out to get to make a a really Direct on the stretch run all right Lori I just coming back to the biggest picture possible I I am the I’m feeling like this is the
Bucks Last Dance last chance and I think that’s probably pessimistic because obviously we know Giannis is going to be here behind this year Beyond this year so it feels like there should be a chance but to me it still remains to be seen if Damen Lillard is going to be
Happy here is going to fit here you know and and want to stay in Milwaukee I mean even if he’s under contract like that doesn’t you know that doesn’t mean that he’s going to stay in Milwaukee I I don’t know about the supplementary pieces the fact that their draft capital
Is just so drained you know I think what what did we say seven years before they have a real first- round draft pick again like the I feel like we’re at the edge of a precipice and that goes back to what I said earlier is there a whiff
Of desperation and bringing in Doc Rivers and and going out and cting some drama because we can’t we can’t have any you know safeguards anymore we got to we got to go for what we’ve got here I don’t know like I said I don’t know if that’s pessimistic how do you feel about
It do you feel like we are approaching maybe the end of a bucks era or do you see still see sunlight for what’s to come the years Beyond this and it isn’t all about just what happens in 2024 I don’t know if I can answer that
Question the way you want me to a yes or no but I will say this I covered the Bulls just before the Last Dance you know and there’s some similarities now to me that I keep going back to that with the Doc Rivers era beginning here
Um back in the mid 90s with the bulls you know Jordan was everything right he was oxygen to the brain he was y he was everything and then there were really specific role players on that team um Pippen was the bucket getter you know Dennis Rodman was the monster and the
Rebounder and he was made you know getting eight points a game Cool in the NBA he had a role okay and then you know Steve Kerr was the outside shooter bill cartright whatever but the guy I remember too and I wish I remembered more I was really young believe it or
Not but um Phil Jackson kind of had this calming presence to him he accepted everybody he really meshed those roles well together and I just remember again very limited but when Phil Jackson spoke people listened and it was a cohesive kind of presence with him to me that’s the
Question with Dr Rivers without looking forward or looking at what’s happening next year or any of that I can’t even do that I to be honest with you I can’t to me I’m so locked in to this really special group that they have right now this is so unusual for Milwaukee
Wisconsin and people who are here know that you know like we don’t get this all the time even though we’ve had MVPs in other sports and we’ve been very lucky this is kind of a golden era for the bucks and I’m locked into what could happen in the next several months and
Can doc River at his age pull these different personalities together can he get more out of his bench can he get the young guys engaged and feeling like they have an active role in the bigger picture and can he get Giannis and Damen Lillard to and and Chris Middleton the big four the
Big five whatever you want to call those guys get them to play off each other to I want some Moxy and some fight to them I have been kind of stunned with with how much you know the Bucks are not the NBA Darlings right now they they are not
Liked by other teams at all and it’s not just Miami that doesn’t like them and it’s not just Indianapolis that doesn’t like them Utah hates them you know Memphis was jacked to beat them Boston of course you know everybody wants to take a swing at the Bucks where’s
The um you know the alpha kind of you know you’re not doing that to us stuff you need that with the calming presence of of the coach and the 995 assistant coaches that they have they have a lot yeah I I I’m looking at if we’re talking last dance and parallels and
Similarities I’m looking for the a couple of times doca said in press conferences look we need to make a decision our defense has to be clarified we need to decide this like enough talking we need to do this I kind of like that leadership I’m kind of
Interested in how it’ll play out and you know the fact that they’re all in all the chips are in to this season I’m totally willing to see you know I don’t want to look at the cliff right now I don’t want to see the waterfall that’s
Coming that we’re going to go over but I want to see I’m really interested as what happens now yeah I mean to say they’re in a last dance Jr implies that they even made it to the ball and this Buck team has not I mean this current
Iteration this isn’t a last dance this is this is the weird uh do you want to dance thing and and is the partner the person you ask andna say yes I mean look they they failed the last I know whatever Giannis wants to say they failed the last two years they didn’t
Get to they didn’t get to the prompt you know a after after doing that and so um you know that’s why John horse did the things he did and ownership um to swing for Damen Lillard and um you know try Adrien Griffin and then try Doc Rivers
Um so it it’s it’s not desperation because you have Yas and that type of player always changes the calculus in the way you treat draft picks and free agency and luxury taxes Etc um you know so I I I to Lor’s point I don’t really
Think you can look at the 2031 draft or 2030 it is about this year and then I think this summer um however it goes is is maybe how you decide uh or you answer that question like if they lose in the second round does ownership say well uh we spent 300
Something million dollars the last three years and have nothing to show for this yeah uh we gave you a shot it’s over I and and after six years of being a championship Contender and and I could we blame I mean they would get blamed but you could sit there and say well
That makes sense they’re tired of this or if they win it all you know and and they’re like all right well let’s just fig we’ll figure out the the rest of the roster around these big four or big three or whoever’s left um after
That so yeah I I don’t think it’s a last dance of sorts because they just they they you know you know they were Cinderella they they ran out to Lor’s Point everyone they were the toast of the NBA and the small market and the Superstar who stayed and you know they
They fought their way through the playoffs and they kind of did it the right way right Jr and Lorie and then now they’re a team that’s underachieved and to Loop it back to the beginning they’ve got personalities on the team that aren’t um that have built legacies and
Opinions elsewhere Dame for a Dozen Years DOC for 25 years pet bed for 10 years in all these other places so now it’s just they’re dealing with that because that’s what happens when you’re not a homegrown when you are sort of piecing together um parts and and things
From other areas like it it’s it’s it’s different and so yeah uh hard to look ahead that’s that but I do get you J I mean it does feel like if this fails drastic change could be in the offing um but maybe just getting to the
Finals and losing is enough and and they sort of run it back and realize well year two of all of this it’s going to look a lot better look what we did last year when it was so dysfunctional you know what if it’s what if it’s normal or
As normal as it can be um and if it’s a second round and out you know I I think anything’s on the table but uh I don’t know if that adds to this year like I don’t think the players are thinking that at least if it
If they are like Chris all I say is Chris Chris has admitted he thought about that um the championship year against Brooklyn like is this over Chris wondered this summer when he didn’t resign and Brooke was a free agent are we like his ownership gonna decide two years of this was
Enough so I I’m not I’m not so ignorant and naive to think players don’t think bigger picture but they’re in it like it’s not go like they’re in it like I don’t know if if maybe dames wondering about his summer and his future um but I don’t but I I don’t think it’s
Detracting from what he’s trying to do right now because he asked to he he asked to be in the situation so um yeah I don’t know yeah I guess it’s not answering it as as cleanly as yes or no but no that’s right Lor’s point it’s it’s comp it’s complicated um but it’ll
Make these next uh 26 regular season games and maybe two months of playoff basketball really fun if a teenage Tik Tok influencer asked me who’s in my dream top five of podcast partners of course I would say Jim ozari and Lori nickel are on that list you can find
Everything they have at jsonline.com as they cover this team down the stretch down those last 26 regular season games Minnesota Timberwolves will get it started on Friday night that’s a game on ESPN it’s on cbs58 it’s on local it’s on wmlw first of 10 games are going to be
On over theair broadcasting for the first time in a hot minute in well over 10 years so that’s uh that’s interesting so some new audience possibly coming in to check out these Milwaukee Bucks thank you for tuning into this edition of the point forward podcast we will be back
With you very soon take care everybody bye
Jim Owczarski, Lori Nickel and JR Radcliffe discuss the Bucks at the all-star break, including Damian Lillard’s massive weekend in Indianapolis.
What’s up with all these weird Bucks sound bites in all-star week interviews? Is this team courting some extra drama, and if so, does that means things have gotten a little desperate? Is the Bucks success as simple as Lillard achieving consistency? What do we make of Doc Rivers so far? Also: Danilo Gallinari?
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