Zion’s Pelicans are on fire + the MESS in the Eastern Conference | The Hoop Collective

Zion’s Pelicans are on fire + the MESS in the Eastern Conference | The Hoop Collective

Hello welcome to the hoop Collective podcast we talk about the NBA which we’re doing after midnight on Monday morning joining us from New York City where he attended the 76ers victory over the Knicks on Sunday and Tim bontemps you saw two games this week where teams

Didn’t crack 80 in the year ad2 24 and in the game that you saw on Sunday neither team cracked 80 as part of a general scoring slow down across the league I’m not sure I didn’t see either of those games I just saw the final scores um I’m not sure you even

Recognized I mean were you wearing vintage clothing from like 2017 or what was going on there not only did neither team did their a team not crack 80 in either game a team didn’t crack 75 in either game which hadn’t happened in over three years and it was

The tonight’s thrilling Affair was the lowest scoring game in eight years since a wolves Nuggets game in January of 2016 pre Jimmy Butler trade I believe at that point juus of nurkic might have still been on the Nuggets so a lot has happened since then yeah um so I don’t

Know to make of that uh there’s been a lot of discussion about slowing down of scoring let’s just see how it goes before we freak out about it but um tibs was probably smiling from ear to ear until his team lost uh he was not smiling at all today

Not at any point including before the game when he was once again asked about a jobi and could only say he’s not ready to play yet well that’s an accurate answer um all right we’ll talk about some of that later on joining us from Seattle Washington where he was a movie

Buff and we had to delay this uh podcast until after the Oscars ceremony wrapped also Bon had to get back from the garden but I just was having fun with you it’s the machine Kevin Pelton yeah I felt a lot better when I learned that Bon Chas

Was actually the real reason that we’re making Jackson stay up uh past midnight on the East Coast it wasn’t my fault okay well Jackson’s a young fella and we would have we would have made him stay up either way we make him stay up all the time just just for just for fun

That’s true he’s just back from Yankee spring training he’s you know all excited he’s very happy he couldn’t sleep he’s coming down to opening day um so let me guys let me ask you guys a trivia question you know the answer but it’ll be fun for me to ask it oh okay

Who is the hottest team in the NBA as we as we at least record this podcast I know this answer solely because I saw the two hottest teams in the NBA prior lose this week first it was the Boston Celtics and then it was the Orlando

Magic who were the first team to not Cor 75 points in three years so is the New Orleans Pelicans wi there’s a four in a row when there’s a four in a row they are 11 and four in their last 15 you can you can look back at different stages of

It but I’m going to just say 15 because it’s a round number um that’s the second best record over the last 15 games in the league uh behind the Celtics who you know had 11 game winning streak and they had had a couple losses this last week

Um they are number two in the league in defense in that stretch again you can look back to different stages they’ve been generally playing very good defense uh for the second half of the season and that has been the story of of of this pretty significant turnaround um the

Other story is that they’re healthy I’m sure all of New Orleans is knocking on uh all the wood they can find because it’s been the defining characteristic of this team um for a couple of years now but uh they are healthy and it’s showing in their results and one of the things

About this team that I think is important to talk about as we are here into getting into mid-march is one they are the second I think actually they they are tied with Minnesota the Timberwolves lost on Sunday night in La um but they are tied with Minnesota now

Because they had a roadwin on Sunday themselves um they tied with Minnesota for most Road WIS in the league with 21 and um that defense is traveling which I think is a big part of it and they have morphed into to a from one of the weaker

Outside shooting teams in the league to a genuine threat from the perimeter and it has gotten them and granted and bont temps has talked about this on previous shows about how the western conference is constantly very volatile so we’re not going to make any Ironclad statements here but it’s gotten them

Into solidified fifth place they’re two games clear of of the of the Suns as we record this for six as all these teams are fighting all over themselves and clawing each other trying to get to six the Pelicans have opened up a little bit of a breathing room there I’ll talk

About their schedule in a second but Pelton um the Pelicans are kind of overlooked because you don’t trust them but it’s time I think to start paying attention to them yeah I mean look you said second half of the Season second best defense you can go all the way back

To their lost to the Lakers in the playin tournament that you know obviously a lot of people were watching that night tuning into what had been you know the biggest game for the Pelicans in the Zion Williamson era and they completely laid an egg in that one but

Since that moment they are number two not only in defensive rating in the league and I didn’t realize this until I look it up they’re number two in net rating period in the NBA over that span behind the Boston Celtics which is pretty shocking uh when you consider you

Know the teams that even have better records than them over this that’s Bann like the Clippers I think the Nuggets may still have a better record Oklahoma City but in terms of a per possession basis uh New Orleans has outplayed them and you know look I think there probably

Was some element of a wakeup call to that play in tournament loss particularly for Zion Williamson and you know I was listening to the pels broadcast the other day and uh Joel Myers and Antonio Daniels mentioned that you know the the national media only likes to talk about Zion Williamson when

He’s not playing well and it’s gotten really quiet while he’s going through a good stretch here and you know he we see him we acknowledge Him but the the thing that’s really changed as you mentioned is the help and in particular you know what happened right around that same

Time as the playing tournament is our NBA draft night colleague on the hoop Collective live stream Trey Murphy the third got back into the lineup that’s right and he’s averaging 10 three-point attempts per 36 minutes this season which would put him in the top 10 in the league he’s not shooting outstanding uh

The 10 three-point game the other night aside you know by his standards but just just the threat that he poses is enormous and he’s been a huge X Factor for this team if you go to basketball reference and sort by the game score on his uh game by game player page uh which

Is kind of a measure a summary of box score performance they are 10-0 in his 10 best games and one in six in his seven worst games so when Trey Murphy thei third plays well the Pelicans are extraordinarily difficult to be well it’s not really surprising when you look

At his skill set too right I mean we’ve constantly talked about how that team needs defense and shooting around Zion and he’s you know sort of a prototypical three and D Wing who also has the ability to maybe grow into more stuff the bottom line is they they are eighth

In offense sixth in defense fourth in net rating they are right there in terms of across theboard production with anybody in the league and they have been healthy for a while they have stabilized in the middle of the West they do with some of these you know nagging injuries

That the Clippers have there is I think an outside chance they could maybe push up a little bit closer to them maybe they get to Fourth um in the west but as it sits here right now and we sort of touched on it on Thursday I think the Pelicans are sort

Of the team everyone’s sitting there saying well if we got the Pelicans that’d be a pretty good outcome despite all of that because for all of the flaws of the teams behind them the the fact of the matter is despite the fact that he’s healthy into Joel and um Antonio point

No one’s really talking about Zion Williamson he was healthy and wasn’t close to being an Allstar this year really and if you look at the other teams that we’re talking about with Dallas and Luca donic with Phoenix Kevin Durant and Devin Booker with the Lakers with LeBron and ad with the warriors

With Steph you’re going to be a lot more concerned about playing any of those teams in a seven game series against one of those guys if they’re healthy then you are against the Pelicans in part because the one time we’ve seen him play in a game that had some sort of stakes

On it in the NBA was that game in Vegas and they got demolished isn’t even a proper term for it and they basically have disappeared ever since so it is going to be interesting to me over this final month of the Season anytime they get lined up against one of these other

Teams I’m going to be curious to see what that matchup looks like because they are right in the middle of all this stuff in the west and probably are going to get a pretty Prime first round matchup against one of these teams and people will go into it I think generally

Despite their resume saying whoever the Pelicans are playing is going to be favored to win well let me well they’re going to go through a good schedule test here in a little bit but before I get to that about Zion um his numbers and before I

Say this I’m not basing his season just on his stats but just to be clear about Zion and his attention his numbers are are down pretty straight across the board he is averaging the fewest points he has in his career he’s shooting the lowest percentage of his career although he

Still shooting 57% he’s still a beast but um he’s a little bit less efficient that way he’s averaging the fewest rebounds of his career his steals are down um his arguably though the mo his minutes are down too that’s part of it um the most important stat though is

He’s played 52 games and he is you know I’m not assuming anything with him but his career high played is 61 which was his second season in 2021 um now what he has is the most assists of his career and that is because part of the changes that they’ve

Made that has helped them is that he played point guard a little bit early in his career uh it was one of Stan Van gundy’s big um strategies with him and they had some success he’s back playing uh quite a bit of time at point guard

And so he’s not playing the same type of style of offense and uh they’re getting more production from the other Shooters you mentioned Pelton Trey Murphy having a good year uh herb Jones has I mean Fred vincon uh who’s the development I don’t know his exact title

Uh with the Pelicans but he’s their development Coach and he’s whatever his title is he’s shooting Guru that that’s what he is and he’s got some some good success stories on his um his resume already I don’t have it chapter and verse but he’s well respected I mean

Lonzo ball Brandon Ingram two guys who we didn’t think of his Shooters when they got there from the Lakers and you know unfortunately we haven’t seen it with Lonzo in a while but became a really good three-point shooter and Brandon Ingram has as well yeah and just

The numbers because I looked him up or do you have in there no go ahead herb Jones first two years of his career and for people who haven’t watched the Pelicans closely he’s one of the best defenders in the league herb Jones was a defensive player of the year at Alabama

Coming in the league the question was can he ever develop any kind of shot his first years in the league shot a couple threes a game shot 33% this year he’s up to three and a half attempts a game more importantly he’s 90 out of 207 which is 43 and a

Half% from three and if that guy let’s say he goes down to 38 or 39% he doesn’t stay at 43% that’s a absolute game-changing thing if herb Jones is a 40ish per three-point shooter going forward with his defensive ability Pelton I think he’s one of the top three-point Shooters in the league

Percentage wise since like January 1 I think he’s um almost 50% and has been you know giving even better so you’ve got those two things Zion is scoring less I think that’s maybe a good thing also Brandon Ingram is scoring less he’s taking um fewer shots uh he’s playing fewer minutes uh

Distributing the ball I think he had double digit assists on Sunday they won in Atlanta Atlanta’s really beat up right now um uh obviously Trey young is out the rest of the season and um Jaylen Johnson and uh Ana wangu are also out like Atlanta’s really just going game to game

Right now a couple like a couple teams in the East but nonetheless it was a road win but I think Ingram had over uh let me see how many assists he had on Sunday I think because I think he had a really good assist while you’re looking

That up since January 1 herb Jones 29 games the Pelicans are 18 and 11 he’s shooting 53 and a half percent from three 59 for 110 and that’s well North again significantly over three attempts a game which isn’t a ton but it’s enough and he’s making them and that’s a really

Really big deal yeah so anyway Brandon Ingram down three points a game down a couple of shots a game um but the Pelicans are performing well so they’re spreading around their offense uh more uh and Ingram like Zion is very much a distributor he’s he’s essentially a

Point forward the ball goes into his hands a lot and he creates a lot he’s averaging almost six assists a game he’s actually averaging more assists than um more assist than than Zion so you know when you watch their offense CJ McCollum is a guy who can be the the trigger man um

Ingram Zion they move it around and they really defend so they’ve stitched together a more Dynamic offense than they’ve had in recent years and they have you know Willie Green really since day one has been you know he he he came from Willie Green came from Golden State

And and Phoenix golden state was definitely known for its defense and Phoenix had played really good defense when he came there um it was they weren’t quite their their Peak they were um there was the the year he came there was the year they won 60

Over 60 games but he came there as a defensive minded coach he certainly was a defensive minded player when he was in the league and um he has really established them as a defensive team and when they’ve been healthy they’ve been a good defensive team um despite you know

At times there to be challenges and um you know I I I haven’t watched them enough to give a fair assessment of how Zion’s individual defense has been but the numbers show that they’re doing a really good job uh as a as a team defense now let me talk a little bit

About their schedule they have a couple of really good tests this week they’ll test this winning streak Wednesday they play Cleveland Cleveland has been without three starters um got routed on their home court by the by the Nets on Sunday I don’t know if any of those guys

Are going to be back by then um so maybe not maybe not the best test of how how real they are as a team maybe well depends how Sam Merill is shooting it that’s true um but the Cavs uh and not only were they without Max stru

Donovan Mitchell um and Evan Mobley uh but we’re getting our default Cavs update in for everybody who’s listening Darius Garland banged up his hand and wrist or something on Sunday night so I don’t know by the time this pod is out there might be an update but we’ll see

Um but then they also play the Clippers the Clippers played Without Paul George and kawh Leonard on Sunday and lost to the bucks so I don’t know what’s going to happen but they’ve got a stretch um later this month and all these games are at home they have a six-game home stand

And my guess is at the end of this home stand stand we will know a lot about where they are as a team and they will have basically solidified probably where they’re going or at least made clear where they’re probably going to be able to be in the standings um they play the

Thunder bucks Celtics Suns and magic all backto back um no none of them are none of them are back-to-backs though so they’re staying at home and they have an off day to prepare for all those teams um they have obviously been playing well uh 11 and four in the last

15 we’ll see how they Faire in the short-term future with some banged up teams potentially coming to their building but that bontemps um is probably where the rubber meets the road they do have one of the tougher schedules among the West teams but it’s not the toughest and right there that

Stretch right there will probably um be a defining stretch you know pending health for them yeah it’ll certainly hopefully you know again knockout wood with all the injuries we’ve had all over the place hopefully those teams are healthy and we get a real look at these guys in live competition against some

Elite opponents and see what they look like and also if they do survive that stretch pretty well you know again that could be the difference between New Orleans potentially pushing up towards that four seed or falling down somewhere towards that six to 10 group that we spent so much time talking about right

Now you know going into today anyway if you look at you know from our projection system there’s about a three- win gap on both sides at the end of the season Mor is projected to be around 50 wins Clippers are supposed to be around 53 and then Dallas and everybody else

Behind him is all just under 47 so they seem pretty locked in to the five seed but you know as we’ve seen with Cleveland and Philly and New York and Milwaukee and all these other various teams lately you know you have some injuries or something goes haywire

And you lose four or five in a row you don’t expect to all of a sudden those things could change rapidly and they could be right back in the mix of those teams behind them or like like I said potentially up with the Clippers so I am

I am they are one of the teams I’m I’m really curious to watch over the next few weeks and see how they look because you know again if you if you’re just lining it up and you’re the Thunder or the Nuggets or one of these teams at the

Top of the conference you’re saying hey if you could pick your opponent from the back half of the West who would you want to play I think you know maybe it’d be Sacramento but I think either Sacramento or New Orleans would be the first and or

Second picks off the board and you know maybe that only being proven incorrect but it’s an interesting opportunity for them to prove themselves when as Kevin pointed out the the most relevant game in the entire Zion era especially for Zion himself is that D in the Nason

Tournament one thing to point out about the Pelicans as sort of their mid-range future here um they have two significant things they got to deal with in the off season Brandon Ingram has one year left on his contract he is eligible for an extension he would be eligible for the

Supermax if he um if he made all NBA don’t think that’s that’s uh going to be happening but we’re need a lot more injuries for him to make all NBA that is that is an interesting point though because Brandon Ingram usually people think of you can’t be traded and get the

Supermax but because that trade happened while he was still on his rookie contract he is eligible right I I talk with this a lot about when I do my appearances in Cleveland um uh the difference between Don Mitchell and Brandon Ingram is that Brandon Ingram was traded during his

Rookie contract the first four years of his career where Donovan was traded while he was into his his second contract his max contract so this Donovan sits out on Monday against Phoenix which it seems like he’s going to he will officially not be eligible to make all-nba this

Season right but it’s not relevant in terms of his contract we mention this on the pot again just point it out because we’ve talked about it a bunch Ingram and Donovan are on the same contract schedule they both have one guaranteed year left on their contract and can

Extend this summer um so they have to handle that um also Trey Murphy is a restricted free agent this summer um he’s extension extension elig sorry take that back you were correct extension eligible they’re gonna want to get him sign and that is going to probably cost a lot of money

Um uh remember the Pelicans have never paid the tax got out of the tax this year and the Brandon Ingram thing is interesting because if can’t get an extension done small Market team with him one year away from free agency that becomes a very interesting situation to monitor if they can’t get

Something done with them again this is a classic stress Max situation because um with where the max contract is uh I mean I’m sure he’s gonna want the max but he has made one All-Star team in his career um he’s a very very good player but with what they o Zion

Coming up and by the way as Zion keeps staying healthy his contract’s going to you know there was some some headlines a few months ago about how because he only played 29 games last year there’s Clauses in his contract that you know sort of De guarantee you know later years in his

Career that’s true but he it’s just temporary he can earn those guarantees back and so I think I think the number 60 games or something like that whatever it is he could still alive for him to regar his contract basically uh and it the same goes for next year he

Gets if he do he has another injury little season it becomes de guaranteed again it’s one of the more unique contracts we’ve ever seen in the NBA but he’s on their books CJ McCollum is on their books for significant money um and if they sign Ingram and sign Trey Murphy

They’re gonna be it’s G to get tight well there there’s one more decision too which is going as Fallen chunis is a free agent this summer Valen chunis is a free agent and they definitely explored as much as they could what his value in the marketplace

Was at the trade deadline to see if they could get a center who maybe was under contract under control a little bit for a little bit more so um yeah the question is is whether they going to pay and you know I’m not saying that the I

Think the Pelicans will never pay the tax but I don’t know if they’re paying the tax for a team that’s fifth or sixth place um in the conference so like they do like in like in the playoffs in terms of proving themselves as a playoff team

Also going Gail B is going to have to prove willing to pay the tax before I’m going to believe they’re going to ever pay it yeah and um the other team there’s only two two teams that have never paid the tax that’s the the Charlotte Hornets and the New Orleans

Pelicans which is ironic because the Pelicans you know previously were in Charlotte um well in Denver by the way to if you want to argue the other side of it now Stan cck’s always had the money to pay but they never they always were famous for for not paying the tax

Or getting out of the tax when they could or doing a cheaper option when they could now they’ve got a championship caliber team that could maybe be a potential dynastic team and they’re paying a lot of tax money so yeah but Denver had paid taxes yes

Before a luxury well my point is that was always a point of skepticism around the Nuggets long term was if they had a team like this would they be willing to pay this kind of money and they are fair statement Fair statement um but anyway

That’s one thing you know look I I don’t I don’t want to focus only on that but you know that’s one of our our jobs is to evaluate this team and where they’re at going forward and that’s one of the things um that we look at but we’ll be

Keeping an eye on the Pelicans uh going forward okay so on Sunday night the Minnesota Timberwolves um fell to the Lakers in LA in a very they got a strange road trip um that started in Indiana and then went to Cleveland and then went to the West Coast um see you

Don’t see many Western Conference teams go on a road trip to Cleveland and then LA but with the time change in between no kidding well the team that had arguably the most ridiculous schedule over the weekend although they didn’t have to travel the Clippers played back-to-back Day games on Saturday and

Sunday and on Sunday with daylight savings in the middle daylight savings time which this is one of the things like you know not sure I should quote Steve Balmer but let’s just say I’ve it’s why it’s why they’re moving to a new Arena where they’re not going to be the third tenant

Yeah to quote dollar bill I am not uncertain as that that that the schedule um uh the big one of the biggest irritations was how they got short shrift on the schedule and this is you know example 846 this weekend but anyway right the Lakers played two night games

Friday and Sunday and the Clippers played a day game on Saturday and a day game on Sunday it’s the most it’s toilets number one and then schedule number two right it’s toilets then schedule toilet bowl baby I will say this like uh if You’ flown into LAX at

All recently and you know you can see the in Dome it I haven’t had a chance to be inside yet it doesn’t look like any other Arena it is you know generally arenas for the most most part you know they they they kind of sort of feel the

Same uh with m m differences this this Arena looks totally different this is going to be an interesting experience I am G to miss the convenience though of being able to go to crypto for all those games all right forget about that yeah crypto on Sunday night with the with the

Timberwolves and the Timberwolves are one of the teams in the NBA that’s dealing with a lot of adversity right now so Carl towns was sitting on the bench um I don’t know this for a fact but I suspect that it means that he’s going to have his meniscus surgery iny

In Los Angeles uh early in the week um but they had Rudy goar who was out with the hamstring injury uh so they had 400 semide million dollars in players sitting on the bench um for this game against the Lakers um Kyle Anderson who has been the fill-in starter

For Carl towns he was also out I think with a shoulder injury um they were playing in their rotation uh TJ Warren who on a 10-day contract and Luke Garza who’s a I believe on a two-way contract um we’re getting rotation minutes in this game and Jordan mcclaflin who’s

Third string basically um so um and yet it was basically I think it was a tie gamer onepoint game going to the fourth quarter but lead start of the fourth quarter were theye were they ahead by a point Lakers W them in the fourth anyway bontemps you right we before we came on

You were talking about something about the Lakers in this game the result of this game with their record yeah I saw a tweet from yoan buha from the athletic that there was the the Lakers are now six games over 500 which they have not been since the end of the 2020 21

Regular season when they were 42 and 30 they are now 36 and 30 this season yeah um and in uh Ninth Place and in ninth place and in ninth place with help from Steph Curry getting injured um quite frankly but um uh the Timberwolves are going to

Struggle here for a little bit they’ve now fallen all the way back to third uh it’s very tight in the west obviously but they’ve now fallen back to third they’ve got this six-game road trip that they’re one and two on and the one came with an Edwards making a jaw-dropping

Play in Indiana last week but I gotta say before we have a discussion about Timber hols or Lakers Rudy goar is a friend of this podcast he has always been very accommodating to um to to to the media this is a well-known very Pro Rudy podcast from a personal

Standpoint yes um terrific guy uh he and McMahon go way back but Rudy really hurt his team on Friday night in Cleveland um where he got a technical foul in a one-point game late in the fourth quarter the Cavs were wheezing again down three starters and that not only it was more

Than that because he committed his six foul on the play on a loose ball foul which absolutely was a foul you know I didn’t even look at the last two-minute report but I I have to assume that was he did a he did a swim move on Jared

Allen yeah it was an obvious it was an obvious foul so he he gets commits his six foul in a in a situation that it’s a loose ball foul so it’s a shooting foul so he gives two shots in a onepoint game and then gets teed up because he does

The money sign at Scott Foster um and vital point I mean the game goes to overtime less than a minute later or you know minute and a half later or something like that secondly after the game he then doubles down basically you know say a phrase there yes

Um basically in continue he didn’t say that Scott Foster is a cheater but he can’t he basically said that he goes I know what the truth is and this is this is at least the third or fourth time he’s been fine for talking about the officials having it in

For his team he he was he was decided they had it in for him when he was in Utah now he’s decided they have him in for him in Minnesota I will tell you as somebody from Cleveland it is the first time anyone’s ever insinuated that the Cavs were being

Well that’s not true with LeBron was around I’m sure there were people who thought that he got in Friendly whistle I believe Aisha Curry very famously during the 2016 finals correct that is correct take it all back Pelton yes it was done for Ratings or money uh

Sorry uh was what she said so um you’re correct uh the Cavs by the way did get a friendly whistle in that game um without question but this particular call was a foul and um it was a it was a rough rough call and ant ant was exhausted

From the night before playing in uh in Indiana scoring 44 I don’t think he scored he might have gotten a free throw I don’t think he made a basket in the fourth quarter in overtime ant was gassed and not having Rudy killed them in overtime and the Cavs won that game

And um you know the thing the thing that’s sort of unsaid here this this Tim donahe documentary that Netflix did I think it came out last off season yeah ago okay obviously yeah I’m whenever recently yeah Rec I’m not going to rejuiced a lot of people don’t find

Incredible the problem is a lot of NBA players saw it you remember when LeBron like tweeted that he saw it and was like yeah you know it’s waited about it I’m not re I’m not re litigating that but I will tell you that it is something

That players have an issue with and as if they need another reason to be uh frustrated with Scott Foster um right and goar stepped across the line and he got hit for $100,000 um because of his past history and because he was implying that and it’s obviously if the Timberwolves miss

You know a top two or three seed because of one game there’ll be 15 different reasons but that was a bad one bonds that was that bad unforced air from Rudy well look Rudy looks like a bozo we again I really enjoy Rudy personally he’s a fantastic player he’s a Hall of

Fame player he also has you as you said has done this multiple times in the past it’s why he got hit with this giant fine he frankly deserved to get hit with a giant fine but on the other hand this is the bed the league has made for itself

By getting in bed with the gambling companies because he did reference that as well well and listen the NBA for years pretended you know like the NFL right gambling is terrible we don’t want to talk about it we don’t want to be associated with it and now that there’s

This very significant Revenue stream coming in what is it there’s gambling stuff left and right the NBA’s grabbing you know gimme gimme gimme they’re having the inseason tournament in Vegas um you know whenever they do expansion there will certainly be a team in Vegas and it’s all an outgrowth of the

Gambling money pouring into they got they got casinos inside Arenas now right the adon’s just bought the the Adon family just bought the Mavs from Mark Cub’s there’s a sports book inside the Capital One arena in DC right and they part inside footprint Center in Phoenix

Part and part of the push bu the team by the Dumont Adon is to get gambling legal in Texas which will be a giant cash register for them I think there’s plans to build a giant complex there with a stadium inside a casino or vice versa

But if you’re going to get in bed with the gambling companies this is going to be the other side of it where if you’re Rudy gobear and you make these comments and you get hit with a $100,000 fine and Draymond Green tried to choke him out in a

Sleeper hold and got a $25,000 fine people are going to go oh look Adam Silver cares more about some comments about the refs than he does about basically anything else well you gotta find more than that because he got suspended just to be clear I but know

I’m just saying like if you the point is this is this is the situ a situation the NBA has created For Itself by just grabbing the money and by grabbing the money they can’t they can’t say well we don’t we’re not associated with gambling well your whole league is now associated

With gambling all the way let me ask you this what is the conspiracy theory there is the conspiracy theory from the players’s perspective and I should be asking a player so I’m sorry I’m asking you is the is this is a conspiracy theory that because the league is

Involved in gambling that it is somehow giving a message to its referees how to officiate games to help help the gambling Partners is that the is that the line that they’re that they’re referencing because I’m not sure like how having gambling sponsorships affects how the league how

The referees would call the game I mean if you think that a referee is betting on a game which is what happened with doni why would the NBA’s association with gambling matter I think it’s a like what you said I think is accurate vont temps but I don’t think

It’s it makesense well this is based in a conspiracy theory to begin with so I don’t I don’t necessarily believe it to be true I’m just saying it’s hard for the NBA to act holier than thou about gambling comments when it’s taking money hand over fist from gambling companies

That’s what the point I was making I mean we might be giving the logic here too much credit people have been frustrated in saying the referees have been paid off for as long as basketball has existed and you know this is just a new thing to complain about I

Will say for anyone who’s interested in the Tim ganagi thing he is not a credible witness about his own life whatsoever uh I would suggest looking up what Bob bulgarus uh front of the Pod talked about uh back in the day when this broke uh because he broke it down

As someone who understands gambling and on basketball in a way that certainly none of us do better than anybody ever probably and NBA players do uh and you know did definitely the NBA did things wrong and and swept this under the rug to try to minimize the Scandal but I I

Don’t think like the you know the claims that Jim G donie makes should be taken seriously I agree but unfortunately the players who are already convinced that they’re getting screwed in one way or another um years ago I um had this had this um the layers at which people watch

Games like sort of the surface level fan who’s you know he knows the he or she knows the players on the team he comes to the game you know just sort of just watching the ball you know having a good time on a Friday night then there’s the

Educated fan who is knows all the rules knows the contracts knows what the gather is maybe even uh you know on a travel and you know that probably educate those are a lot of the people that are listening to this podcast we talk about the Timberwolves on a after

Midnight or Sunday night then you have I think the sort of professional level which is expansive media players you know and people associated with the game um who’s who what’s the level beyond that I’m curious what the next level is there’s one more level um

Who you know do this every day know all the referees know the referees Tendencies know like you know how certain things go understand the histories uh between certain players and referees Etc and then there’s the fourth layer which is the layer of the the paranoia layer which I guess some players fall into

When like you are like like like an executive or an owner who is convinced that everything is out to get you and you have chapter and verse you may even have had your intern produce 75 Clips uh and you’ve had you know your uh assistant general manager you know director of basketball strategy

You know create a you know 665 frame uh you know power this has happened this is I was going to say this is what this is what they do about Kevin Pelton and his uh his draft and freeny and trade grades which you might think

I’m kidding about I can promise you I am not right you know the old we sent it to the league you know the what you know that sort of layer where um uh and that is the layer in which um we things start to get crazy where there’s the the it’s

So ingrained that they’re being you know that that you’re that they’re being screwed that there’s really no talking them out of it I think players some of them have a different you know different feelings you talk about it but that the the level at which front

Offices and even all the way up to ownership sort of go into this I mean can you imagine what Mark Cuban like you know you remember the Daryl Mory you know I mean I mean maybe the RO you know that they were leaking a report that was

Over calls that were like two years prior um you know that’s what I’m talking about it came up during the panel he did uh at the Sloan conference last week with with our old friend Jackie McMullan so that that one still lives is he still defiant about it like

He’s still like seven years ago we got three bad calls knowing darl knowing Daryl his position has not slackened uh in the intervening it is not but I believe the specific point was Jackie mentioned missing 20 27 consecutive threes and they came and he was like

Well we got fouled on two of those so was actually 25 correct that’s right yeah uh Jackson says this is same level that everybody’s going down with the Kate Middleton altered photos which um my wife bring in the Royals we’re really having a crossover pod today yes we we

Were trying bring everything Oscars Royals Pelicans listen when we’re on ESPN 2 we’re trying to bring in a bigger audience um and uh my wife was going through her own forensic analysis of of that uh tonight so I’m a little behind on that I’ll have to catch up with the

British tabloids uh tomorrow um but anyway goar hurt the the Wolves and the wolves are in a tough spot right now um Pelton uh hopefully goar and Anderson will be back soon um the wolves are having their best season in 20 years this threatens really to derail them because I don’t think

Carl towns will be back at all during the regular season do you anticipate that they can keep their head above water I mean I was watching the Lakers in the fourth quarter they were just flat out double teaming ant Edwards and I just think that’s going to be the rule

Of the day going forward yeah I mean I think it’s going to be hard for them to stay in the top two for for sure I mean you know Denver was kind of already coming on as has been talked about in this podcast Oklahoma City currently has the best uh

Projection using BPI as Tim referenced earlier uh right now and in this was even going into tonight’s games you know Minnesota was a pretty clear third this drops them back I mean the Clippers is also a loss today so I guess the two of those move back in in tandem I it’s an

Outside possibility I think they could fall down all the way to fourth in the Western Conference which you know if Denver’s in two might not be the worst outcome in the world I guess I I might want to be on the other side of the bracket from the

Nuggets tell yeah just real quick because we talked about the Lakers a little bit and we’ve talked a lot on the pod about how the Lakers are a team that is dangerous in very specific matchups if I’m a Laker fan and I’m at home the Laker fans really don’t like me so be

Prepared for me to say something that you might want to actually hear for once you want to be rooting hard for the Thunder to win and I think you could even make a potential argument the one seed you mean well to win every game because if the Thunder if the Thunder

End up with the number one seed in the west you could have a world where the Lakers who are as we’ve talked about very very likely to be in the 910 which means if they get in the playoffs at all which is no certainty they’re going to

Be the eight seed so if you’re the Lakers and you can find a way to get in as the eight seed what you don’t want to be looking at is a second straight sweep because that’s probably what’s happening if you’re playing the defending champs but if the Thunder are in the one spot

Especially as Kevin pointed out with Minnesota falling back probably means Denver is in the two3 spot either a second or third probably second that means you don’t have to worry about Denver till the Conference Finals it also means you’re on the side of the bracket with a Thunder team that they’ve

Won three games against this year that is very small that as we saw today ad when he plays smaller teams is a giant load inside yeah he had guy to deal with 202 he had a 2525 game all right and then you’ve got the Pelicans who they’ve

Had the number of in that four five matchup potentially against a wolves team that or either the Clippers or the Lakers have played well against this year or a wolves team that may or may not have Carl towns so again not saying the Lakers are making the Conference

Finals by any stretch but there is a potential where if they can find a way to get in they could have a similar draw to last year that at least on paper squares up with that specific team skill strength or strengths and could allow them potentially to make a run Lakers

Do have success when they’ve played quote unquote big um it took a lot to get Darvin ham there but playing with haimura LeBron and AD has borne fruit and gotten into six games over 500 um so just whenever as we’ve talked about so much it’s just whenever they

Can play teams that LeBron and AD can bully if they can bully guys and Bully teams and get to the line and make it a slugfest they those two guys can control the game and all those teams present the ability for them to potentially do that

Well they are facing a team in their next game on Wednesday in Sacramento that has bullied them for two years deat sabonis has owned Anthony Davis nine and0 against him in his career ow I think they’re one in seven against them the last last eight times they played um

You know might not be on the other conversely might not be the best opponent to have to see in a potential one-off game in the playoffs would agree and you know right now that’s a team that’s in front of them and I don’t think I don’t think they can catch him

But if they have any dream of catching him they better win that game to get a sort of a double credit So speaking of teams that are beat up the warriors uh aren’t as beat up as some of the teams that are fighting for position with them

But losing Steph Curry uh even if it’s not for an extended period of time has taken a toll and Pelton as we do this pod they have slipped down to um a 10th place in the Western Conference um they are tied with the Lakers in the loss column but they have

Three fewer wins because they had some games postponed earlier when their assistant coach Dei passed away and they’re just a little bit behind and so that’s fine I mean in theory they can catch up but the problem is is that you know they’re three games over 500 so you

Know and then you got to play games you know in a Titan window back Tob backs are created where there weren’t backto backs um the outlook for the Warriors which was looking pretty Ros seven to 10 days ago um has has eroded they actually I think had gotten into eight briefly didn’t

They that sounds right yeah but uh but Dallas is now uh you know Dallas has recovered a little bit so anyway um the Steph Curry factor is uh is looming pretty large in that West seaing right now yeah I mean Tim was mentioning The Importance of Being out of that 910

Playoff game and you know the Lakers actually are are less than 5050 coming in today in the BPI projections to be part of that game The Warriors coming in today 77% far away the most of any Western Conference team and you know that’s what happens when you lose games

To the Bulls and the Spurs at home well yeah I mean that’s what I was going to say is you lost the you said the Spurs at home you buried the lead it was the Spurs at home without Victor wanyama so that’s one of the worst losses of the

Season and you know obviously they they badly missed Steph Curry in that game uh they play in in San Antonio on Monday night uh then then Dallas another game that’s kind of crucial Dallas and the Lakers are the next two gamees so a couple of teams they need to beat if

They have any chance of climbing out of 910 and getting up into that seven eight in game and Victor by the way scheduled to play on Monday yep he’ll be back uh we’ll see if Steph can make it back for that that Lakers game on Saturday night

On ABC but uh seems you know he he won’t be reevaluated until Tuesday so certainly out for that Dallas game and they just do not have a lot of margin for error so even though the news on Steph Curry was relatively good in terms of him not being sidelined for long that

Still could be the difference between them them getting up to seven or eight and being stuck in nine or 10 and most likely 10 which would mean having to win twice on the road to make it to the playoffs yeah for sure I mean um they’re dangerous and we respect them but again

They’re three games over 500 I want to make one point about that are we can we really call a team that at home against a Spurs team without Victor wanyama cannot win with Steph Curry a dangerous team I think we might want to retire of the idea that they’re dangerous you’re

Not necessarily wrong but I’m just going to say that we’re living in a world where we saw two playin teams make the Conference finals last year so I think yeah we saw one we saw one super fluky thing happen but I think again let’s I think we need to see some evidence that

This team is really a team to be that concerned about there are a couple games over 500 they just lost yes they played amazingly against the Bucks they then turned around and lost a home game to the Bulls who have played better but are still a below 500 team and then even

Beyond that you want to write off the Bulls game they then got pounded at home by a horrific Spurs team yeah you know what I’ve been saying is I and I this isn’t just something to say I believe it is I believe that the Warriors are not

Really a fair assessment of their record because the way that they’ve been playing isn’t indicative of the way that they got to that record because Draymond was suspended it took you know they put Clay on the bench they promote they you know started to play their young guys

Kaminga psky and Jackson Davis and that things were looking their Outlook like I was comparing it to last year where the Lakers were walking around with a record under 500 at this point but they had actually become one of the best defensive teams in the league after the

Trade deadline and that they were actually more deadly but the point that you’re making here is is that even if that’s true even if you agree with my premise and you may reject it I’m not going to be offended the the the deck that is so

Stacked against them the margin FR is so small that it might not matter that they’re that they’re that they’re actually a much better team than three games over 500 would suggest yeah I mean Miami did go to the second play in game need that last year ended up making the

Playoffs and did it as the eth seed to to get all the way to to the NBA finals but they injury nobody says that ever and I’m guilty of that too but if Giannis is 100% healthy I don’t know if the series goes the same way the heat

Believe it The Heat have had great success against bu I just Knicks were also the Knicks were also banged up in the second round too I think they beat the Knicks either way but Julius Rand was messed up Jaylen Bruno was messed up I mean I think Miami was a better team but

Still yeah I mean the big thing though is like those are teams that would have been in the playoffs either way what we have not seen is a team that has gone from outside the top eight via the playin make any real noise in the playoffs as

Yet that’s true that’s true we spend a lot of time um talking about two of them but I kind of get it I’m sorry I kind of get it so we spent a lot of time the other day talking about how the Bucks were you know a team to be paying more

Attention to their defense had improved and bontemp said talk to me after this road trip which was fair and they did get a win on Sunday against the Clippers who played Without Paul George and Kawhi Leonard on the second straight afternoon game on daylight savings but whatever

The Bucks won that game however they they escaped with a pulling it away in the fourth quarter in that game yeah but it didn’t the the road trip hasn’t started out great and the Bucks still their numbers are still much improved defensively but it was they’ve it’s been a little

Bit sobering for the for the bucks bontemps it didn’t look that great defensively when they gave up a buck 25 to the warriors on Wednesday and lost by 35 making Golden State the first team to ever lose by 50 and then win by 30 plus

In their next game nor did it look too great on Friday night when they gave up a buck 23 to the Lakers without LeBron and had D’Angelo Russell go for 45 and nine and completely tear apart Damen Lillard down the stretch of that game you know McMahon needs if Patrick

Beverly had been out there on the final possession it would have been totally made would have made all the difference in the world all the difference I mean look like you said whatever else you want to say about the Bucks and again I’m I’m still skeptical that they’ve solved everything though they’re

Obviously better in some respects than they were before the coaching change the frankly the fact of the matter is with where the East is right now no matter how disorganized the Bucks remain they are the two seed by default because everyone else from the Cavs on down has

Seeded the race largely through injury and the Bucks are sort of the last team standing well the Cavs are only a half game back and they none of their injuries should be season ending but no but they but their guys are out for a while like they’re not playing they’re

Also just not playing great yes they’re not they don’t they got they got smoked by the Brooklyn Nets on Sunday a team that has basically only beat the Atlanta Hawks in recent weeks so you know and and the corpse of the Sixers last week didn’t play the Heat who like again

Looked like they were sticking their foot in the ground and saying okay here we come just spiked three games in a row including losing to the Wizards who no longer the lizards the Wizards the lizards as mcmah have been calling them literally two in a row I

Know two in a row second streak three they call that a winning streak it’s it’s amazing yeah I mean the Wizards by the way um getting a win and then defying the Miami flu uh after a Saturday night in Miami in March which having lived in Miami for

Several years things get a little wild on Saturdays in March in that City they only only Saturdays in March what about Saturdays January February April about particularly Saturday and March I would what what I really want to know is if the uh the teekam music festival is

Going on there right now if it’s I think it’s I think we’re a little earli for that if it’s going on there right now in the road team one and you really have have overachieved there but uh yeah so you know the Heat have um dramatically cooled off after after looking like they

Had things put together um I mean I’m trying to make a case you know the Knicks didn’t crack 80 um oh Pelton looked it up uh remind me what it’s called Pelton I always made sure I was out of town ult Music Festival so March 22 to 24th

Ultra all I’m going to say about Ultra the building that I lived in in Miami was also a hotel it was like a 50 Story Tower and the bottom like 20 stories were a hotel okay and if you lived in the building you came in sort of through the same Lobby

During Ultra the hotel lobby after midnight because the heat always were playing at home and I would come back from the games could have had an nc7 rating that’s all I’m going to say um and I remember last time I was in Miami during Ultra I was uh I got a I

Got a taxi outside uh outside the when then the American Airlines Arena and uh um I was taking like a red eye out of there and uh I was like one in the morning morning and I come out on bis game Boulevard and I was like I don’t

Even know if I’m be able to get a taxi and I hailed this taxi and uh he he rolled down the window and said where you going I said the airport he looked in the back seat which was covered in plastic grabbed the tarp hold it off and

Goes get in I jumped in the taxi and he’s like this is my last fair I’m getting out I think he wanted to get on the plane with me all right anyway it’s hard to win on Sundays in Miami for the visiting team especially when you’ve

Just come off a 16 game losing streak the heat lost lost um Orlando has has even cooled off uh they’ve lost two in a row after being the hottest team uh New York didn’t break 80 uh the Cavs uh injury report is getting longer by the hour uh guess Boston’s not feeling so

Bad about itself bontemps well no and you even mentioned the Sixers who are still without Joel embiid and have missed Tyrese Maxi for the last week now saw Tyrese after the game I think there’s a decent chance he’ll be out of concussion protocol and playing Tuesday

In the the second game of this baseball Series against the Knicks but I mean by the way Ben Maan on the uh Pacers one of the best subs in Tor labram he’s out for the year yeah I mean it’s it’s it’s really crazy we it didn’t really felt

Like for so much of the year it was like man he’s gotten we haven’t really had any injuries knock on wood like competition’s been great seen all this awesome stuff going on over the last month really feels like starting with when Joelle had that unfortunate play at

The end of January against the Warriors it’s just been a just Cascade of injuries across the league and I give you a stat on that oh you there we go we got Fountain stats let’s go so obviously this is biased by the fact that players are not going to get selected for the

All-Star game if they’ve missed too much of the first half of the season but if you look at this year’s All Stars uh up until Valentine’s Day there hadn’t been more than four All Stars missing games on the same day now four times since then we’ve had at

Least five and last Tuesday eight All Stars missed games on the same day from this year’s allstar game you mean yeah and I don’t even have stats on Sunday when kawhai and PG were both out as we talked about yeah there were I I was at

A I was at a game where three Allstars did not play from this year’s All-Star Game in the same game and that doesn’t count the two guys in uh in La so there’s at minimum five just from those two games today let alone and Donovan Mitchell didn’t play so that’s six so

Right there we just thought of six guys so it has been crazy to see how Rudy go should have been an All-Star he should have been well Carl’s there seven car right it it is just crazy how injuries have become very sadly such a defining part of the league over the past few

Weeks to your point Kevin and a lot of what’s going to happen I think over the next few weeks in the East is really just going to be which of these teams can get their guys on the court like if Joel embiid can get out there sometime by the end of the

Month maybe that’s enough for Philly to find a way to stay in the top six maybe they can even get to four somehow um you know if Donovan Mitchell is able to get back sometime soon from this PRP injection and the bone bruise in his knee and his quad like they might be

Able to stay in the top three um you know the Knicks been waiting you know oan and Obi might be back soon they’ve been playing without their entire starting front court for a month all three of those guys could be back sometime in the next few weeks you

Know I you know how this largely plays out might just come down to that because as of Sunday night after all the games are played you’ve got a one loss spread from fifth place to eighth place and you got a two loss spread from fourth place

To eighth place so it’s you know we’ve talked a ton about the West under understandably but this Eastern race it’s all jammed up and a lot of it very well could just come down to who can manage to get their guys on the court over the next

Month I wish it wasn’t the case but it is the case yet again a season that’s being heavily defined by injuries despite everything that’s being done to try to mitigate it by the way before we go Corey kissper from the Wizards should be a good who they who he play for for

Some people he had 23 points today just going to here’s a little free tip I play NBA 2K whatever 24 25 with my son he makes me take the Wizards because he wants to win kispert is Unstoppable in that freaking game I’ve had multiple 40-point games with Corey kissper because the

Dude do not miss an open shot he’s like I almost think that kissper has like a buddy that he went to Gonzaga with or something who’s now like a coder for 2K who like secretly put in a code that he’s like the most Unstoppable player in

The game I’m telling you if you said to me in that game I could have Steph Curry or kissper I wouldn’t even think about it for a second and my son thinks the kiss’s like Unstoppable because I just destroy him with him I mean I let him

Win obviously but I destroy him with with with Corey kissper so I didn’t think Cory kissper 2K breakdown yeah I actually have been to two wizards games in the last like month I could have had the opportunity to go in actually um Jackson said that Steve Novak was a legend in

2k2 so you know this bear is investigating you know like Rudy gobear made an accusation I’m making an accusation that um their Shenanigans with Corey kiser’s three-point shooting accuracy in the NBA 2K that’s all I’m gonna say I know that Ronnie 2K you know he’s all about the he’s all

About what the rankings are I don’t even know where he is but I’m telling you offensively this dude is a 99 in that game no lie I suspect he’s not I suspect he’s not I know he’s not uh and I had to turn off auto substitutions because they were like

Subbing the dude out of the game in the fourth quarter I like no no you cannot take that guy off the court he’s got to be on the floor I have no chance to stay in the game all right thank you for watching The Hoop Collective podcast

Thank you for uh checking out with us uh audio and video here on ESPN 2 thank you to Jackson our producer thank you to Pelton thank you to bontemps thank you everybody listening and we’ll talk to you later this week

Zion’s Pelicans are on fire + the MESS in the Eastern Conference | The Hoop Collective

Brian Windhorst is joined by ESPN’s Tim Bontemps and Kevin Pelton to talk the hottest team in the NBA, if Zion Williamson deserves more attention for his play, the impact that injuries in Minnesota could have on the trajectory of the season, the likelihood the Warriors remain in play-in territory and the mess developing in the Eastern Conference.

0:00 Intro
3:00 New Orleans: The Hottest Team In The NBA
24:41 Can Minnesota Overcome Injuries?
46:13 Will The Warriors Escape The Play-In?
52:03 Chaotic State Of The Eastern Conference

#ESPN #NBA

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