Why Steph Curry, NOT Kyrie Irving, is most skilled player in NBA history | Hoops Tonight
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So you guys don’t miss any of our content over the course of this season all right let’s talk some basketball we have Damen Lillard come out after the game talking about whether or not Kyrie Irving is the most skilled player in the NBA now this has been a debate around
The game of basketball for a very long time and specifically I think this moniker is one that we use with kyrese specifically because of the fact that he’s kind of a confusing player what I mean by that is like Kyrie is like super super good there’s a pretty substantial Gap in my opinion
Between how good Kyrie is and how much he’s valued by most basketball fans this is something I’ve been pushing back on for years now it’s like okay so you disagree with some stuff Kyrie did off the floor okay so he’s had some clear examples of poor teammate
Behavior but when the dude is on the court he’s incredible he’s literally incredible and and like we we literally just saw the other night with Luca out Kyrie almost single-handedly hold his team to a win like like they are uh they are like we we we over complicate this a
Lot of the times when we talk talk about basketball players and we Overlook because it’s it’s like it’s it’s almost become an expectation for a player we Overlook what a player is actually accomplishing on the court Kyrie is a guy who can straight up be your number
One if you’re great everywhere else can he be the number one on a limited team no is he a floor Razer like that no but the dude can run an offense and he competes hard enough defensively when he’s locked in that he can be a positive defensive player he was a positive
Defensive player on the 2016 Cavs so I think a lot of this is like Galaxy brain right and so the way people counteract that is when they have this half of their brain that’s going like Kyrie’s overrated Kyrie’s bad teammate Kyrie’s this Kyrie’s that they counteract that
With like oh well you know he’s the most skilled player in the NBA instead of just talking about the fact that he’s just really great at basketball and to me that specific phrase most skilled it really just depends on how you’re defining that to me if I had to Define
What’s specifically Kyrie does better than most players in the league it’s a versatility of skills he has the best combination of footwork ball handling and shot making from all of the various spots on the floor out of anybody in the league in my opinion like there are guys
Who are better than him in ball screens but they’re not as good in the post there are guys that are better than him in the post but they’re not as good in ball screens there are guys who are better than him in ISO but they aren’t
As good in the other areas Kyrie is literally capable of doing every conceivable basketball thing as about as well as anybody in the league but that doesn’t necessarily make him the most skilled in my opinion for instance I think when when people ask me who the most skilled player in NBA history was
Or is it’s very obvious to me it’s Steph Curry who’s the only player beneath the height of 65 who is a top 10 player in NBA history it’s Steph I have him as the fifth best perimeter player of all time and he’s pretty much definitively a top
10 player in NBA history all the other dudes around him are big guys either big forwards or centers right or shooting guards that are 66 and freaky athletic right so like steep has proven just in what he’s been able to accomplished on the court that when it comes to winning
Basketball games on the strength of his skill no one’s better than Steph but to me with Steph it’s focused in specific areas so for instance uh Kyrie Irv in my opinion has a more advanced ISO bag in terms of the numbers of moves that he can go to but Steph’s just way
Better than him at shooting and Steph has been able to weaponize that shooting both on Ball and off the ball to a greater effect than Kyrie has been able to weaponize all of his footwork and dribble combinations and shot making so I can’t in I can’t in
My right mind say Kyrie’s more skilled than Steph because Steph’s skill Beats Kyrie’s skill every single time and and I don’t blame Steph for like for instance Kyrie here’s just one simple example Tyrie Irving is a better vertical athlete than Steph Steph is bigger and stronger they’re equally
Quick but tyree’s a better vertical athlete he also has a shot where he shoots at the top of his jump where Steph shoots a little bit more at the beginning a little bit like on the way up in his shot so for instance doesn’t make any sense at all for
To work on you know complicated post turnaround footwork because he’s never going to use that he’s not enough of a vertical athlete and his jump shot release is not built to turn over his left shoulder and Elevate over the top of a defender in a postup and knock down a shot now that’s
Not to say Steph has never hit a turnaround jumper of course he has but it’s extremely rare it’s not a shot he goes to and he usually needs a lot of Separation to do it that’s not a shot he works on because it doesn’t make sense for him to work on it so
Kyrie because he is a a better vertical athlete and because he does shoot at the top of his release or release at the top of his his jump he is a guy that actually can use and does use turnaround jump shots all the time famously game
Five of the 2016 NBA finals in that fourth quarter run I think he hit two big left shoulder Fades over Klay Thompson where he drove hard to the left planted in turned over his left shoulder got great SE uh got Great Lift shot over the contest of Klay Thompson and knocked
The shot down right like it’s just it’s just a difference but at the same time like bottom line is stepher damn near his entire career has come off of ball ball screens and off ball actions and hit threes at like 45% on massive volume and and and and he’s learned how to
Weaponize that into a playmaking element of his game both on and off the ball and Steph is able to weaponize his skill into more points and and therefore he’s a better basketball player and therefore he’s the most skilled player in NBA history in my opinion but if I was
Looking for something sort of claim to fame for Kyrie to me he is the most versatile skill set in the NBA he can score like forwards do he can score like shooting guards do he can score like point guards do he can do what Steph
Does and come off of a wide pin down and shoot a a movement three over his left or right shoulder he can run a ball screen and make a variety of pullup threes in pick and roll but he’s not as good at those things as Steph is and
That’s why look I look at is the most skilled player in the NBA but again like to me that really is just in the eye of the beholder and argu arguing about it doesn’t really make a ton of sense just simply because like most skilled to one
Person may not mean the same thing to another person for instance like K Steph in my opinion is a much better playmaker than Kyrie but like like does that factor in as a skill Steph is a much better off-ball player than Kyrie the ability to move without the basketball and and
Weaponize that is that a skill it just depends if your fact factoring it in because if we’re not factoring that in if I’m just strictly looking at like one-on-one play then I might lean more towards Kyrie or might I like I have to think about it but like it’s a it’s a
Different discussion right and that’s my point like it’s it’s really difficult to kind of nail down the parameters of this but what like if I had to based on my kind of interpretation of what most skilled is it’s the one guy in NBA history who’s beneath the height of 65
Who’s a top 10 player in the history of the game that’s Steph he won with the skill and did it better than any other skill player in the history of the league therefore it’s him and that’s why I’d give him that Title
Jason Timpf reacts to Kyrie Irving’s game-winner against Nikola Jokic and the Denver Nuggets, and the claim that Kyrie is the most skilled player in NBA history. Jason SOUNDS OFF and explains how Steph Curry is the most skilled player ever, and explains how Steph Curry has single handedly changed basketball during his career with the Golden State Warriors.
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48 Comments
"Calling Kyrie the most most skilled player is a copout. How I personally would describe Kyrie, is as the player with the most skills"
Kyrie is a slightly better finisher at the rim, slightly better ball handler and is more athletic. That’s it. Steph is a better shooter, playmaker, passer, moves better without the ball, and is more efficient. Steph is probably the only player in history who is an A to A+ in all 5 levels on offense. Finishing at the rim, mid-range, three point shooting, playmaking, and free throws. Jordan was an average 3 point shooter. Lebron is an average shooter, doesn’t play well off ball, and is a below average free throw shooter.
Meanwhile REAL hoopers say Kyrie is the most skilled. I take their opinion over yours!
My man Steph is great..You are coming off like a insecure curry fan.. When we say skill it means your handle,layup package,using both hands and foot work..Kyrie is by far the most skilled nba player ever..Steph is the best combination of ball handling and shooting combined.. .Kobe would be second to Kyrie..Steph isnt a great enough finisher to be the most skilled nor is his handle on kyries level.Steph has a nice handle though..
This man is a curry/warriors fanboy 😂
Hey Jason, thanks for the great content. I love your basketball breakdowns. You said Steph is top 10 all time and I agree. But when the 75th anniversary team was announced, he wasn’t listed as top 10. I think just this was before he won the title in 2022 so maybe that’s why. With that being said, what’s your top 10 NBA players of all time list and why did you rank each person in their position? Keep up the great content.
Very rare I disagree w/ you Jason. But I wholeheartedly disagree lol. The first defense of Steph being more skilled was that he’s top 10 all time while being little. that has a lot to do with how well constructed his teams were and team success as well.
Yes; Steph is a better shooter. But Kyrie is no slouch in that aspect. Kyrie is a better finisher with both hands, ball handler, etc. the things Kyrie is better at, he’s a lot better. Steph’s handles are a product of his shot. You’re so worried about his jumpshot the hesitation gets you. Kyrie can break you down on all 3 levels.
Off ball stuff, sure it’s Steph. But when we talk skills we are mainly talking with the ball in your hand. And I don’t buy Steph is a better playmaker. But that’s tough to judge given Steph’s teams have always been so much better, so assist and passing come easier on his teams.
I’ve been saying this.
why is this even a debate? Its a different skillset. Ones got good handles and incredible shooting and the others got incredible handles and good shooting.
if you’re calling Kyrie the most skilled ever, you’re also pretty much calling him an underachiever at the same time
I concur with your assessment of what constitutes a skillset. Kyrie Irving possesses a more diverse range of abilities, although I do not believe(like you) that he surpasses the skill level of Steph Curry.
However, Kyrie’s ball-handling skill is unparalleled in basketball history — and I watched Allen Iverson play. His footwork and what I call "classic shooting" are better.
I disagree regarding Curry’s ranking as a top-ten talent. IMHO, he falls short of that distinction, and I would place him at the 12th spot of the all-time greats.
Edit: As far as the one I prefer to watch. It’s not close. It’s Kyrie, depending on the night, though.
Well said!!!
Why is this even a question? Curry plays. He wants to play. Kyrie is a quitter and a punk.
When you say Curry is definitively a top 10 player in nba history, who's not between Jordan, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Bill Russell, Wilt, Kobe and Shaq?
The fact that every team has to double team Curry at all times tells you all you need to know
Steph Literally Changed the Game Like Can’t Compare Tbh. He Changed How Kids Growing up Playing, he Literally Changed How the League teams Defense Operate Just To Stop Him😂how is we comparing Kyrie to that? Steph nd the Warriors Literally Got Coaches telling There Teams that Shooting A middy Is A Bad Shot😂🤦🏾♂️
Kyrie has the most moves and creativity in history. Most people confuse that with skilledness. Still think Kyrie is arguably top 3 most skilled in history, but steph is definitely more skilled. Kyrie is definitely the best artist on the court though.
You argument is counterintuitive man. He can do the most things at a better level that most but because he not all time great at shooting he can’t be the most skilled? Shooting passing handle finishing footwork post game off hand finishing he is the best when it comes to being elite at all these things.
SKILLS:
Handles – Kyrie is better but Steph is very close
Finishing at the rim – Steph is actually a better finisher but I'll say that it's even. Kyrie is more creative but that doesn't matter
Touch shots around the rim (floaters and such) – Steph is better
Mid range – Kyrie is better
Post – Kyrie is better
3s – Steph is much much better
Passing – Steph is better
Playmaking – Steph is better
Off ball movement – Steph is bettter
Pick n roll – Steph better
What other offensive skill have I missed?
I’m not here for the slander only reason u Steph fans don’t wanna give Kyrie credit cause deep down inside yall know and yall lucky he got hurt in that first playoff series
Curry is playing a more team orientated style. He could chase stats if he wanted to but he plays winning basketball
i do NOT agree with this premise that steph won because of his skill ( which is conflating two things that have nothing to do with being the most skilled player ) – in 2015 the cavs were without Kyrie & Love, and LeBron still took them 6 with Delly as the 2nd best player & Igoudala won that FMVP. Steph did NOT win that finals because of skill, ANYBODY would say that. 2016, we know what happened & 2017, 2018 they had KEVIN FREAKING DURANT who won b2b FMVP averaging 35. Those rings were NOT won because of steph's skill, thats just false. 2022, sure, that's a viable case but all others are a false premise.
I'm glad I saved this part of the show until after the disappointing loss to the Knicks. At least it was Donte (love him, miss him), Jalen and the Knicks and not a western team.
Atleast you got this one right for Steph Curry Thank you Jason Timf
Curry 🐐
Jason with the most based ever answer ever and I agree
THANK YOU
so we can believe you…. or we could believe the many professionals who say Kyrie is the most skilled player ever. Hard choice 🤔
Bro is there anyway to get you on Lebron's pod? Need to hear you him and JJ break down ball
From what you've defined as "skilled" I see where you're coming from.
I disagree. Respectfully.
Only because "Skill" , in the way I think of it, is controlled movement.
And when I think of a player with the most control over his movements in any given moment, in any given situation with a basketball….I think of Kyrie.
Skills are also like solutions a to challenge, and Kyrie has displayed the most solutions. He simply has more basketball skills(solutions), which would make him the most skilled.
Just my opinion. Appreciate and respect the work. Keep thriving 🙏🏾
I think when players mention most skilled they are talking about purely 1v1 basketball as that is the only way to determine how skillful a player is against another player.
Dribbling/Ballhandling- Kyrie
Mid-range- Kyrie
Passing (not really a 1v1 skill)- Steph
Finishing (both hands) – Kyrie
3 pt shooting (spot up/off the dribble) – Steph
Finishing through contact – Kyrie
Footwork – Kyrie
Post Game – Kyrie
Shot creation- Kyrie
It's not hard..Kyrie is mainly an ISO 1v1 player (like his favorite player Kobe) where Curry is not
Kyrie makes it look the best. If you show someone whos never seen basketball every great players career highlight reel, kyries would stand out and they would probably think he was a top 5 player all time. But highlight reels don’t depict the full game of basketball
When talking about skilled, accomplishments like 4 titles and being top 10 shouldn’t come into that conversation. Steph stayed with one team and had better teammates like KD, Klay, and Green. Kyrie didn’t stay in Cleveland and kept moving. He didn’t seem as focused on winning and was distracted with his off court stuff. If Kyrie could put his mind to winning basketball who knows how much he could have achieved.
Very close between the two in terms of most skilled but I will go with Kyrie. He is also the more clutch player between the two.
there isn't really much between them in shooting. Steph is about 2% better in FT and 3P but slightly worse in 2P…that's over their careers… that's if you play enough, hundreds of, games, you can see the difference.
Does Kyrie set screens? How many rebounds does he get? (i don't really follow him much)
Nah man I can’t agree with this 😭 kyrie can do some amazing stuff with that ball man. He is amazing around the rim and has so many counters for different defenders and can get through any tight space with his dribbling. He not a better player than curry no doubt but individual player skill kyrie got it.
Geez… when a player does something amazing, it’s best to give another player his flowers. Dude, I like you but you’re such a homer.
yeah im gonna belive real nba players instead of a fanboy with a mid podcast
This is one of those videos Jason puts out there for business purposes.
On top of all what you just said I think Steph is the far better at thinking than Kyrie, he's just smarter… and I mean that mainly (but not strictly) in a "basketball is a team sport" kind of sense.
This season Steph is averaging fewer rebounds, assist and fg% than kyrie. I think the skill gap is being overstated outside of 3pt shooting and off ball movement where Steph is in a league of his own. That said, kyrie is also shooting over 40% from 3 and is just 1% shy of 50/40/90 club this season.
When we weigh achievements, Steph is miles ahead but pure skill wise its close. Shit, imagine kyrie vs steph in a one on one tournament in the all star game. Id pay to watch.
What 😂😂 curry better overall curry but more skilled than kyrie stop it
Im going with Kyrie everyday of the week over Steph. It is about preference.
Steph’s one skill trumps everything kyrie does because of how valuable his shooting and off ball movement is but kyrie 100% has the versatile skill set he can simply do more with the ball at a high level, and is also an all time great shooter from everywhere on the floor
kyrie all that skill and has never even received a 5th place mvp vote
Curry is a system player they set up plays for him to get open. The only thing curry does better than Kyrie is shoot!! And Kyrie is damn near a 50/40/90 played and very efficient. Kyrie finishes around the rim better, he’s more athletic, ball handling is not even a comparison!!! Not to mention any the Kyrie matchup against curry he takes the challenge to watch curry in which he under performs but curry never seems to want to watch Kyrie because him and the warriors knows he cannot watch Kyrie to save his life.
Kyrie is the most skilled basketball player that ever played this game. PERIOD!
Its not that serious. Bunch of fanboys on here. Obviously Steph is a better overall player. Its just appreciating the unbelievable handles and layup package that Kyrie has. Nothing to loose sleep over.