Gary Trent Jr.’s Future | Raptors Show Full Episode

Gary Trent Jr.’s Future | Raptors Show Full Episode

Hello and welcome to the Raptor show on the sportset radio network brought to you by Campbell’s new chunkies by soup it’s time to get fired up make sure you find the Raptor show wh you listen to podcast uh subscribe and please rview the program as a programming note we

Have obviously moved from the afternoon to uh the morning uh our new time slot is 11 to 12 so check us out daily there uh I’ve been your host will Lou I’m joined by co-host Blake Murphy what’s going on Blake uh a lot apparently a lot

Is going on yeah yeah quite the news cycle before yesterday’s game um you know it means we don’t have to talk as much about a 9688 loss uh where neither team even shot 25% on threes it was the closest thing to the media game that uh

That the public will will get to um ugly game uh ugly day in terms of the reporting around the Toronto Raptors as well with the jante porter uh allegations yeah we we’ll talk about those first and foremost uh and also joining us in studio friend of the

Program big VC Jacob how you doing man I’m doing great man always here for the serious topics that’s why you brought me in right no we’re you know I I was just reading your piece on Raptors and S about what the Raptors should do with Gary Trent Jr in the offseason and I

Actually wanted to have that discussion with you obviously a bigger story emerged so we’ll get to that uh in in segment to the big story that everyone’s talking about right now um in the NBA improbably is jonay Porter which obviously it is not about his play it’s

Actually about the lack thereof of his play because the NBA is investigating betting irregularities particularly for two games uh via DraftKings um involving T Raptors forward jonte Porter you’ve already heard the story by now it was broken on ESPN um jont obviously has been out for the last two games listed out with

Personal reasons but I think we know what those personal reasons are right now and um yeah I just wanted to get your general thoughts because for me being down at the arena last night seeing this story break in real time at broke around 5:30ish which is usually when everyone’s just kind of mingling

Around in the tunnels of the scotch Bank Arena seeing that news break in real time and seeing people sort of like run around and scramble that and just sort of figure out what’s going on was quite the experience but I wanted to get your thoughts Blake on uh you know the

Allegations around joh tante Porter yeah I mean foremost uh it felt like something like this was bound to happen eventually in the NBA um we’ve seen on the NFL side Calvin Ridley suspended for the entire 202020 2022 season for placing parlays on not on his team while

He was on the injured list last year an additional 10 NFL players were suspended uh over the course of the the 2023 calendar year to where at the end of the season the NFL had to rework its gambling policy and make it more strict on players uh betting on NFL action

Harsher automatic punishments and things like that of course the main sports news cycle outside of March Madness this last week or so has also been show Otani and the accusations against his interpreter um whether that’s for the gambling side of that for the theft from sh Otani to

Cover the the gambling losses um and the reality of this is as sports betting becomes kind of more and more omnipresent around Sports and sports culture um it felt like something like this was was probably going to happen eventually unfortunately uh the league and the players union for decades

Honestly well before sports betting was legal in some states or or legal in Canada have been trying to educate players about this there’s obviously the Tim doni scandal from a decade back or so but the NBA and mbpa have been have tried to be on top of this for a very

Very long time because sports betting has existed uh and the incentives or or risks to to have guys do this have existed long before this stuff was legal and omnipresent but that kind of heavy presence obviously makes it more front of mind more accessible and things like

That um so that’s one thought on this the second is that this is incredibly disappointing it would be an incredibly disappointing error in judgment if this is true by the way we should say there there are right now they’re investigating the betting irregularities jonte Porter is being held out of action

While that goes on um but there is nothing to say at this point in the process that jonte place those bets or XYZ happen so this is all just alleged right now if what is alleged is true and it traces back to jonte not only having

Um you know a lot whether placing the bets themselves or enticing other people to bet um and the the implication here being that you know he knowingly pulled himself out of games and hit his unders that would be any sort of gambling that violates the league and union agreed

Upon rules would be a really disappointing error in judgment um betting on yourself on your own team while you could understand it would be a very disappointing error in judgment but what is implied here through and and will be alleged here is that you knowingly bet against yourself and

Withdrew your performance on the team so again it’s not nobody is yet to say that hey jonte bet on this and intentionally did this it could be something you know there are there are other explanations though they feel less plausible with the information that we have right now regardless this is incredibly

Disappointing incredibly disappointing for the league for the team um for jonte Porter if again if if what is alleged can be traced back to to his actions and him having knowledge of that um it’s just a huge error in judgment you could even get into the the risk reward part

Of it like obviously it ethically it’s really bad but also like like your your judgment in terms of what the future of your career looks like versus what you’re making off of this there’s there’s no way around how how disappointing this is and unfortunately how kind of inevitable it has felt not

Necessarily with Jon but as this stuff kind of continues to pick up steamer on Sports okay v um what was your reaction when you saw this break last night uh it’s just sad you know when when you think of uh the disappointing Factor you think of the way that you know he’s

Worked his way back into the league and the things that he’s been through uh injury-wise and just to have this opportunity again to potentially throw it away again we don’t know what’s going to come of the investigation uh I think I think it it would just be a sad way

For things to play out after you know you think about all the things that have gone wrong for the Raptors this season among the few things that have gone right is this jonte Porter feel good story and so if it were to end this way it would be extremely disappointing

Um for me I think whichever way uh this plays out the NBA has to recognize its part uh in this MH and the possibility of this uh and I think they have to take Serious measures you ask about you know what are some of the first things I

Thought about you know I was a CR kid watching cricket and there was a huge match fixing Scandal that broke out in the early 2000s okay and uh there were big players involved who got banned for life m one was the captain of the Indian cricket team like what you’re talking

About big players right of course um I I don’t think they’ll be that necessarily to worry about because uh cricketers weren’t making as much money at the time and here the premier the best players in the league are very well taken care of yeah so I I I don’t think they’ll be

Carried away with bookies and things like that but I think especially the second second round picks especially guys on 10day contracts uh those are the ones that you know bookies will be circling like sharks and they’ll be saying okay can we get in with any of

These guys and and try to work our way in um and I think that’s where you have to be careful Cricket once that broke out they created an entire anti-corruption team to make sure none of this happens again right right um and and so I think the NBA has to be very

Serious in terms of mitigating this stuff completely uh you know doing whatever they can to keep these players out out of the loop yeah I think if we go big picture on this right um if if you as a league decide to go into partnering directly with sports books in

This case and the NBA has done this on pretty much every single level and more is coming and more the leag pass integration right um first off this isn’t unique I mean Sports gambling is is kind of a fact of life and it’s going to continue to be so and of course when

You do directly partner with them though like that’s where you need to make sure that Above All Else the Integrity of your sport is the core of your business and no matter what kind of partnership you go into um there needs to be a very heavy consideration as you mentioned

That you actually maintain and protect that because I think on the bigger picture that’s what’s really uh the difficulty for the NBA is are you able to maintain your integrity as a sport and of course this is something that happened on a very small scale uh whether jonte Porter left game

Intentionally to hit the unders for some prop bets which honestly is risk reward wise it’s like one or 2K for a prop bet versus like you make 400k for your salary I don’t think anyone would you know sensibly wager in that kind of fashion without it being just

Characterized as a very very big miscalculation and just very stupid in general again that’s what’s alleged to have happened um but in any case that the league itself needs to make sure that you do not compreh your integrity and the trust in your product first and foremost and look the

NBA would tell you that they are doing that and and DraftKings has already issued a statement uh via a spokesman yesterday that and look what I’m about to say like you can roll your eyes at in there’s maybe a level of naive to it but you know draftking says that actually

This is one of the benefits of regulating sports betting um is that you can catch irregularities like this where if it is only a markets you know sh’s uh translator for example the way that they have stumbled upon that is well the California government was investigating an illegal bookmaker and then saw all

These wire transfers it wasn’t hey there’s a $500,000 bet being made on this thing and it raises a flag so DraftKings has come out and said via spokesman actually this is the system working the NBA has um four years but certainly more so in recent years as

This all becomes uh legal in more States um have data sign scientists who are on top of it like there is a they don’t call it this but basically an Integrity team and every team is supposed to have Representatives who have an IO for that stuff as well um and obviously in the

Era of the era of Big Data um and you know if League partners are filter like like ESPN got this story in part because they’re like they are a DraftKings partner so when DraftKings sees these irregularities you know they can raise the flag to ESPN if I I don’t remember I

Love the story was brought to you by DraftKings by the way yeah um there’s no R this and look there is a there is a thing irony and you know if you if you want to be more critical hypocrisy to a lot of the the reporting that’ll go like

We have betting sponsors on on sports that everyone does around Sports media um anyway so DraftKings would tell you the league would tell you other betting sites would tell you actually the regulation helps because we can catch stuff like this now whether you believe that whether you think that outweighs

The kind of extra elicit incentives for players because it is so big there is so much money it is so kind of ubiquitous um you know that’s for you to make the Judgment but the league and these places will stand by hey actually this is the system working we can catch this stuff

We have you know the data systems to to raise these red flags and look at them a little more closely so um the leagues are trying it just I don’t know that you’re ever going to keep up with the kind of Ingenuity of Bad actors yeah in this case Ingenuity is too generous

Because if if the scheme is what it seems to be the pattern is what it seems to be you did not cover that up how is like come on man this is like who first off who is who in the right mind is even betting on jante Porter unders you know

What I mean like like no for real like look as someone who has bemon the fact in the past that I can’t bet on g-league games um probably me but um not to that level right like but seriously though and for that to be the number one money-making play on two separate

Incidents where he left the game it’s like you can definitely see not just how a very sophisticated data team could find this I think anyone looking at this would be like connect the dots like what are you doing here which again like you know it’s not like you can bet an

Infinite amount of money on on the prop bets like it’s like one or 2, on a a prop like this I think there was the reporting that uh that W passed along that like there were certain bets that people wanted to make 10 or even 20K

Bets on this how is not that like the biggest red flag of like who is that confident on jont Porter hitting an under 0.5 on threes like come on man and that’s part of it and then the lower limits yes usually it’s one to 2000 on an individual player prop those vary a

Little bit by sight and by the props specifically you know DraftKings who who again are are the ones who first flag this um they say on their site there’s a $220,000 cap on player props in general and specials um so that’s like at the absolute absolute Max but I think that’s

Like spread over a lot and then yeah you can parlay some of these things together to make it bigger um we have had uh one other Anonymous sports book report to ESPN that yeah we saw this activity too so when you’re talking about the small limits you’re now talking about for this

To be even remotely worthwhile and what there is you know is there a system of hey multiple people over multiple accounts over multiple sides I think that’s probably what they’re looking into now to see exactly what the scope of this is yeah well I mean that’s the

Thing it’s like you and this is not a question that you guys can really answer but one of the questions I had for this and something I’m looking forward to finding out the answer to Is was jont acting alone right were were there people that he was directing on this you

Know um honestly was there a coordination Beyond jonte as well which again I this is all complete just questions like that that’s questions that I just want to have you know what I mean and I guess the other thing is what kind of punishment could come out of

Something like this because obviously it is strictly inhibit uh prohibited for NBA players to you know again right now we don’t even know if he specifically bet on his own performances hopefully he didn’t I mean that would be even you know more ridiculous and and and quite frankly

Stupid but um yeah just quickly for people who don’t know yeah NBA players cannot gamble on anything that’s NBA WNBA or G league right or summer league yeah stuff like Esports you’re not allowed to bet on as well just because sure yeah anything under the NBA umbrella okay um what what’s the

Punishment for something like this so there isn’t precedent in the NBA there’s no example of this and even the Precedence in other sports you know I mentioned earlier the NFL Calvin really got a whole season and he wasn’t betting on his own team he wasn’t even playing

Uh he was out injured there were 10 suspensions during the NFL season last year and the new NFL policy um is it’s an auto suspension um they again they made it more strict at the end of the season because they have these gambling policies and they’re like we suspended

10 guys for gambling this year we got to make it more strict so um it’s an automatic I believe it’s an automatic one year and in some cases automatic twoyear um depending on what specifically you bet and and whether your team is involved whether you you

Are involved the NBA as far as I know has not publicly release their gambling policy and what the punishment scill is there’s no precedent for us to go on um I would imagine they want to come down very hard especially like like you’re going to want to come

Down hard for a lot of reasons the the integrity and ethics reason the send a message reason Etc but like extra so if if this ends up being verified and jonte had a hand in it the the fact that you were betting against yourself and against your your performance for your

Team is is a little extra um so we’ll see in that regard the other thing and to your Point uh Vi about you know what is the scale of this how many people were involved was there a system um depending on the jurisdiction and what jurisdiction this would fall under there

Are potential criminal punishments as well Tim doni went to jail for 15 months the Canadian criminal code has an entire section about influencing sports betting and things like that um you know I’m not a a lawyer but in reading that stuff this morning it certainly seems like you

Know if the jurisdiction were deemed to be Canada here and this was a larger scale thing they might might want to get in on the investigation as well see some of the see if there is a case there as well so um you know as this thing as we

Understand the the scale of this more um yeah I think the the scope of the potential punishments only increases um there’s just no in the NBA precedent to go on on the the the only so outside of the NFL in the NHL Shane Pinto was suspended for 41 games this season but

In that case that was something that Pinto the NHL and the nhlpa agreed upon we never actually got the details The Smoking Gun sides came agreement it that point so not much helped anywhere in this case um there’s obviously a large much larger conversation we had about just the

Promotion of sports gambling especially now that it’s become more and more widespread and not just uh legalized in many areas but also become more culturally like acceptable in North America and obviously places like most of the rest of the world actually had already legalized sports betting to this

Point um if you watch the Premier League for example like half the teams are brought to you by some sort of um sports book um but in any case in North America and and we’re seeing the sort of effect um take over the NBA quite a bit you

Again you see lots of Partnerships the Raptors have direct Partnerships you know every team in the league basically is in the same boat here um is there a larger conversation to be had for you guys and this is just a personal preference because you know I I’m not

Expecting you guys to be experts specific on this but you know of course you guys are you know have L involved in sports and you guys are seen as Sports Experts um on the show like this is there a larger conversation they have for you guys in terms of how sports

Betting is marketed um across the board and maybe even the saturation of of it uh across like you know the presentation of sports in North America I think definitely in terms of how we converse about it or how we preview games or things like that you know when you see people sort

Of taking the dialogue of a preview for a game game or a series or whatever into you know Under the Umbrella of hey these are the props and so this is what you should be looking for right I I think that takes away from just talking about

The game itself so I think that’s what you’ve always got to keep at the Forefront you talk about the game you talk about the teams and then you know people will make their decisions obviously there’s risks involved you have to evaluate uh your own Financial circumstances with everything that you

Do and so uh I think we as presenters or you know commenters on all of this we have to be cognizant of that and you know this is this is not our money that we’re playing right right and so I think that’s the main thing that we need to be

Aware of when we’re speaking to the general public and so um being informative about the game being informative about what we’re watching is the main goal um and then let people take away from that whatever they want yeah for me personally I mean look I like full disclosure I have bet on

Sports my entire life like since the since I first had um you know some disposable income not a lot of disposable income I mean you you know my backstory uh not a lot but like since like yeah since University probably I’ve been betting on on Sports and obviously

That was not legal for a long time or or you had to go through you know back channels or whatever trip to Vegas type of deal yeah but I have been doing that and like I I it’s naive to think for me to think that everyone is going to

Approach sports betting the way I do which is that make Sports a little more fun I understand the math I understand that over the long run even a smart Sports person who is number Savvy but doesn’t have like a machine Learning System like like it’s a losing

Proposition over the long run that’s a small part always wins yeah and like when I was on the morning show and we do wake and rake and things like that you know I was very I tried to be very very clear that hey this is like a small part

Of my personal entertainment budget I’m not trying to get rich off of it I’m not trying to make money I’m trying to hey there’s a big UFC event tonight I don’t care about these two fighters let let me have a stake in this and and it makes it

A little bit more entertaining that is how I’ve always approached sports betting um and that’s not you know that’s not Universal though and and I think that it’s naive to think that it it would be universally applied and there aren’t risks there’s a reason you can’t advertise um you know cigarettes

There’s a reason you can’t advertise alcohol and things like that um there are big risks here and and I know that a lot of the sports books and the leagues themselves they try to provide you with the resources if you’re having trouble and things like that um but yeah yeah

Obviously as you introduce more of this stuff and we just went through it you know a handful of years ago with the decriminalization and legalization of marijuana right like some of these same risks were there some of the same things had to be you know sorted out in the

Initial years um it’s not a perfect example but as like these things happen um it’s sports betting is not the not the first thing um that’s dealt with stuff like that anyway yes the bigger picture conversation it’s it’s really really unfortunate and scary that JB bicker staff is getting death threats or

Threats about his family that Tyrese halberton is enjoying playing less because all he hears Courtside is stuff about prop bets and parlays and stuff like that um you know this is the reality I don’t know how you walk it back to where like like some of the onus

Falls on those individuals to be a little bit more reasonable but I I don’t know like I don’t know how you put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point if it’s going to stay legalized in terms of that the Insidious side of the culture around it so um again like like

Recognizing that everything has betting sponsors we have one I I do the pregame hits and stuff like that I I you know my personal and I’m a member of sports media my my personal line has been well I don’t like other than the the morning show the couple months that I did that

Like I’m I’m not giving pcks I’m not talking about the bets that is for me like where I have to personally I feel like I need to draw the line um other people feel differently other outlets feel differently um you know I know it got pointed out a lot that ESPN ran that

Story yesterday the same day or the the day after one of their panelists was talking about this is a risk-free investment when it came to a bet on one of the college games um which obviously no no B is a risk free investment anyway

So there is a lot of irony and yes the some degree hypocrisy to sort through here um I don’t have an answer other than that you know you’d hope that silver lining to stuff like this in the sh thing is that it’s a wakeup called to the leagues that they have not and

Legislators I guess too that like as this is all rolled out we have not done a good enough job you making sure the the messaging and the safeguards are are quite in place from the start yeah I mean I I think for me um again circling

Back to this the biggest thing is you cannot lose the credibility and integrity of your sport right like honestly this is why just be me being so invested in the Toronto Raptors but one of my first reactions to to the whole news with jonte potentially like taking

Himself out of game so to make sure that they hit the unders is like you’re sabotaging a Raptor’s performance and like I get it it’s the L season you’re the third string Center it’s not the biggest thing it’s not like if LeBron would like take himself out of the game

You know what I mean like it that obviously that would have a much bigger impact but ultimately like like the Integrity of the sport is like the main thing that’s what we’re all sort of banking on that’s what we’re all you know investing to see as a fan you’re

Trying to see a true competition and you’re want to see um the competition be the most important thing that’s why you know for you like I I agree with that approach it’s like it’s a it’s a ideally it’s a secondary thing everything is secondary to the fact fact that you know

There is an Integrity of what you’re competing with here and the NBA has to be very very careful once something like this because they’ve literally already had scandals y involving officials it took them so long to get p and whether they even got past the Tim doni thing

But like anytime there’s a bad call in a meaningful spot in a game now and we’ve been through this with Raptors like the game that Darko blew up at the refs or whatever you know I had DMS about like the League’s conspiracy theories and stuff like that like it’s like okay I

Don’t like there were what was it Rudy goar thought the lead when he got fined 100k he did the money sign yeah and then like afterwards it’s like yeah the league has the fix in for the Sacramento Kings it’s like okay well let’s be reasonable about where the fix but

Anytime this kind of stuff comes and there’s a reason Rudy got slapped was such a big fine why Darko got fined why the coaches get fined when they they question the you know the referees and things like that is that yeah the league has the league has always on the player

And Coach side you know fiercely protected the Integrity of the game if you suggest otherwise they came down hard on Tim donie and put more safeguards in place on the free side and things like that but that has only you know that only applies to like the

Player and Coach side right but again the main thing has to be the main thing nothing secondary can jeopardize the main thing but I think going to the sports media side and it’s not like you know again you’ve already pointed it out the fact that like you know a lot of

Sports media sites ours included um have Partnerships with sports books but the big question for me is like okay these are the big sponsors that are that are actually stepping up but actually bringing money to these Enterprises and the reality of the situation for a lot of shows and a lot

Of programs on Sports is like that is what’s going to fund them going forward and you know when you look at a long-term model I always look at the EPL for example or any sort of soccer leagues it’s like those are direct Partnerships that they’ve worked with

For a very long time and that actually is just the reality of like where all the chips and up falling is that Sports BS are huge part of sports um but again there needs to be safe guards and safe rails put into place you know what I

Mean like I I think a lot of people have a question about okay how does advertising like this hit children for example right um how does that develop habits in younger players who may not have again the wherewithal to be able to do it responsibly you know what I mean

And and of course there are ideally guard rails in place and the fact of any society is that you can’t protect everybody from the downsides of any potential re decision and you know there there are obviously facets that come into that but yeah in general though like the Integrity of the sport must

Maintain and that’s why this whole situation is incredibly disappointing and that’s why so many people were talking about it again from a rap perspective I guess you can Wonder or not if he’s going to be involved but again depending on how this like investigation folds like I would be very

Surprised if he played another game for the Toronto Raptors if he 10 games left well not just that but like yeah I mean I I don’t even know about his future in the league again depending on how directly involved he was with some of this stuff and of course you can always

Point to the tangential stuff relating to it he seems like he was he’s been really big into uh let’s just say financially risky decisions um yeah I mean we could just say it like he has a history of tweeting about of crypto and stock market stuff it is and like obviously if you’re

You know if you like crypto is a thing you can legally invest in and make money and stuff like that like there’s nothing same with the stock market there’s nothing wrong with it um you know and those those are the account that is pretty safely traced back to him also

Adam lascaris did did some digging on that um you know has also engage with sports betting stuff in the past but none of that means that you did this necessarily right it just means that you’ve been public about other ways that you look to invest and find you know Financial opportunities which doesn’t

Mean you did this uh you guys want to talk about R this Nets we want to take a break first and then then come back and do NS n we got like five minutes on this let’s let’s let’s let’s bang this one out uh I want one takea away from both of you

Guys on the Raptors losing 96 to 88 against the Brooklyn Nets me I I mean getting an opportunity to watch Kobe Simmons I thought he had some nice minutes I thought he had hustled on the defensive end I thought you know he had that I mean you got a

Screen from Mohammad and then was able to get downhill against Dennis Scher and get that nice Runner he had to pull up three um and so I thought he had some nice minutes showed some flashes uh so if I had to take one if I had one take

Away from this game I’ll go with him just because you know we’ve seen most of the other guys money the the big takea away from the jonte porters Scandal game is is is Kobe Simmons okay Blake yours I watched Grady dick and oai abaji run a successful pick and pop oh yesterday

Which is like o aaji hitting and above the break three has been fairly rare we talked the last week about you know Grady doesn’t do a ton of operating in the pick and roll right now you know that’s not something they they’ve asked

Him to do a ton of so we got both of those things in one game in one play um that was the I mean this this game was ugly nasty ugly yeah yeah I mean you mentioned it earlier both te 14 for 66 combined three-point

Shooting oh man yeah it was it was a it was a tough performance there’s no doubt um but you know they did compete and and for me my takeaway was Garrett Temple Raptor show favorite continues to be one of the only like like guys on the Raptors that like consistently knows

What he’s doing of course like he should he’s like 37 he’s been a long time NBA player all that kind of stuff and I even thought back to the interview that we did and we were like you know Garrett it does feel a little but like we’re

Patting on the head they like okay you can still play well but it’s actually similar to like what we did with that too because when you don’t see a guy play for a while and you they get into the game like you don’t know what to

Expect and but for Garrett he’s come in and actually done a decent job and of it’s never some sort of overwhelming thing right like yeah had two points last night three rebounds four assists a steal but he just he plays the right way he’s he’s doing the right things

Generally speaking and dar said there’s a there’s a case to be made that he should play even more minutes if the Raptor you know agenda here is to like be as competitive as possible which obviously at this point we know it’s a balance between many things I think you

Could make the case that he should play a little bit more even if the goal is not to be as competitive as possible it’s just like he does bring like competent structure similar to how like early in the season anytime auto porter played even though he didn’t do that

Much the team played better it’s just like like the app like wow you didn’t like you weren’t terrible and like like obviously when you’re trying to compete at the highest levels the most important thing is having good players having great players but when you are at this

LEL and you’ve lost 11 games in a row replacing a non-nba level player with a guy who just like has a floor and can be safe and be confident and and like understand the offense and nowh to be in defense like that it it’s really lower

In the bar but that really does raise your level of play yeah it’s just the trust Factor right like when we watch Kelly oen on the floor and he’s on the offensive end you know that you know you can go to him as a hub the young guys

Can rely on him and then just move off him and work off him and so I think it’s just that trust factor with g Temple that you know what he’s going to bring to the table when he comes in the game mhm you got to uh you got a spicy Stat

Or take off of that or which does bring me very conveniently wow I I can’t believe worked like this uh time now for today’s spicy take or I guess this is a spicy step brought to you by new chunky spicy soup are you ready to get fired up

This one honestly I got to get Blake the props for this one cuz he suggested it and I really did like it uh Raptors in the last three games obviously have have lost the last three they’ve lost 11 straight they’ve lost by combined 31 points as you would expect pretty much

Every single raptor is a minus during this time there is only one person who was even better than a plus one in the last three games combined it is Raptor show favorite Garrett Temple Garett Temple is a plus4 in the last three games where she’s played around 45 minutes which

Honestly again the Raptors have lost all three games one of them was not particularly close uh and he was still a plus in that one yeah he he’s been a positive contributor in that stretch um my question to you guys I mean there certain guys the starting lineup

Obviously has been getting killed Bruce Brown’s Aus 30 uh Kelly olix Aus 27 oai is Aus 25 um you know things like that but my question to you guys who are the other two Raptors who are actually a plus one in this three- game stretch Jas

Ramsey that’s a good guess but no he’s a he’s a he’s a minus two he was a plus nine one of the games and it was a minus 11 in the other one and then obviously got he’s not on the team yesterday what’s right he he he wasn’t I

Mean Jam was yes sorry I thought that was a hint no no no no there’s no hints for um the last three games um oh Kobe Simmons Kobe Simmons yes very good plus one last night okay yeah and then I don’t know yeah Grady no Grady grd’s played better minus he I

Know he was a plus last night yeah he’s getting a lot of Threes up which is nice who’s the other one let’s go with Gary no the other one someone we talked about quite a bit jonte Porter oh yeah cool the segment got pretty dark

Once again uh plus one in his his his 20 minutes he actually played well in that game um you know must have played well in a lot of games must not in the prop that one but in any case uh we are going to take this break I’ve been your host

Will you’ve been listening to the Raptor show on the sports radio network brought to you by Campbell’s new chunky spice suit when we come back let’s talk about Gary Tren Jr welcome back to the Raptor show on the sports radio network I’m your host Lou continue to joined by co-host Blake Murphy

And guest Vex Jacob uh v as I mentioned in hour or segment one um you know you have your own substack Raptors in s going straight to my inbox tell me about your substack first and also what you wrote about this week uh yeah with the substack I started

It a few weeks ago beginning with uh a post about Scotty Barnes and you know a lot of takes about you know where he’s at in his career obviously largely positive um but I think with the substack I just wanted to have something where uh I could consistently just write

In my own voice and um you know I think with the way media is trending uh Independent Media I think is going to be more more of a thing and so I just wanted to you know take a bit of a risk with that and see where see where it

Lands and yeah so for this week’s post it was the three-year anniversary of the Gary Trent Jr Norman Powell um trade okay uh yesterday and so I thought it’ be a good time to kind of look back on that trade look ahead to free agency the

Way Gary Trent Jr has performed as a raptor and kind of figure out maybe you know what’s what’s the optimal outcome for the Raptors going into this offseason okay um so there’s obviously going to be a big question right because again this offseason you got to choose

To decide whether you’re going to resign him or not he’s unrestricted he had picked up his player option for this season to return to the Raptors um I think that probably does indicate that there wasn’t that strong a market um last off season I don’t think he was

Coming off the greatest year last year as well having said that though this year’s kind of been difficult to evaluate not just him but pretty much every Raptor but I think especially for Gary because he started the season coming off for the second unit um I don’t think he’s ever necessarily looked

All that comfortable playing with the second unit for extended stretches he’s gone back into the signup uh as partially because of the function of how much roster turnover but generally speaking he’s actually been kind of productive recently he’s been leading the team in scoring so there is a

Question in terms of a just how Ive is Gary and also like um what the rappers should do in the offseason especially in terms of a contract potentially but like what have you made of Gary Trent’s uh season so far this year yeah I mean first of all you know that the Gary

Trance better as a starter thing kind of annoys me because every role player in the league would be better as a starter playing around better players and things like that he also has shot better as a reserve in his career so the numbers don’t even back it up it just kind of

Feels that way having said that he has been their most reliable source of offense during this per perod where everyone’s out um basically the only guy who can get his own shot and basically the only guy who can score without Kelly Ock spoon feeding them buckets um which

Is great and I think in terms of his value he’s had like on the market he’s had a down year his counting stats are down um we didn’t see the you know playmaking progression maybe you you’d like to see the defense hasn’t got back to the level it was the one year where

He had taken a step forward hasn’t been as bad as last year in my estimation but you know things like steals are down and stuff like that but I think the most important thing for him when it comes to the market is he just turned 25 and he

Is once again having another really really good season from three he’s at 40% on threes we’re now looking at a 5year run here where he’s hit at worst 36.9% of his threes on high volume over those five years we’re talking over 2,000 attempts he’s just shy 39% um that

Is the 18th most threes hit in the NBA over the last five years and of those top 20 guys it’s the number six percentage so this is like one of the Premier High Volume catch and shoot three-point guys in the league so if you’re talking about what value is in

The open market a 25-year-old who’s a safe bet to hit down hit 39% of his threes on like six seven threes a game is a really like that’s a stable thing that’s a there is a consistency there um that has a lot of value I think though

Relative to the last time he was a free agent and relative to even if he had opted out this past summer I don’t know that anyone anymore is pricing in further development from himal even though he’s only 25 which is Young on the age scale I think given what we’ve

Seen over the last couple years given where his game is he is who he is and that’s fine that’s a really valuable piece given the three-point shooting in the modern NBA um but I I think you know if he had been a if he had explored free agency more aggressively when he got

That three-year deal even this past off season some teams might have been like well he might develop more he might get this in his game what if we expand his role this way and I I don’t think you’re there anymore I think he’s his Market will be hey this is a really steady

Three-point shooter and that’s his primary you know kind of marketing asset yeah I do like the fact that um well number one I I I think you do have to appreciate what he’s brought as a professional I think he’s he’s you know been always really good to to speak to I

Think he’s um you know been available for games and um you know even the last couple games like I I do at least in these difficult times in terms of like okay the Raptors are on this extended losing streak they got a lot of players missing like are you still playing hard

Are you still trying to compete your very best and I still do see that from Gary like the last seven games and this is obviously you know where he’s been a lot more prominent um but he’s he’s average like 24 points a game shooting 44% from the field he’s shooting nine

Threes a game hitting 37% of those that’s really good especially again because nobody’s really generating these for him anymore um but having said that though I do have some questions in terms of number one how does he fit with the starting five because you do see that

The Raptors do have four starters locked in is he going to be that fifth starter for you and if not is he going to be a productive bench player for you um and that’s I know that’s something you explored in your piece so is Gary that fifth starter that fits with this group

And is that something you’re comfortable with long term because that’s obviously going to determine a huge part of a what he’s back and also what he’s back for yeah first off I think to your point he’s been an absolute consumate professional right and I think he has

Shown up to work every day you look at the game even in Washington he’s dealing with the back stiffness but he’s there for the team he plays he gives it his all uh and you know struggles from three which shows you know with the back struggles but he’s there for the team

And so I think uh that’s something you have to factor in I think when you look at the fit with the starting group they’ve had a plus 10 net rating that unit with Gary Trent Jr uh yaka purle Scotty Barnes Emanuel quickley and RJ Barrett that’s pretty good and so that’s

That’s encouraging and the thing that surprises me is they had a defensive rating of around 109 which is comparable to the starting fives of Minnesota and Boston right now the big difference is that the Raptors uh starting group they only played 160 minutes together okay all right fair and you had those other

Two teams with over 500 minutes uh of a sample size and so you would expect somewhat of a correction at least right but I do think when you think of the theoretical fit with the way yaka perto plays with the way Scotty Barnes plays with the way RJ Barrett attacks the rim

Gary Trent’s offensive fit is pretty seamless and so uh it’s about you know what are yako purle and Scotty Barnes doing to protect the basket with those other three around that is allowing them uh to look pretty good defensively or good enough defensively to do what they can offensively and I

Think that’s where I can see Gary Trent Jr as a shortterm solution um I think if I were to just you know think of the Prototype I would want next to those four it would be more of a three andd guy okay and it would be someone who is

A switchable Defender uh and that’s part of what kind of intrigues me about the likes of an oai aaji you know the right you’re pretty you’re pretty high on CH I mean I think his absolute ceiling is being a a three andd starter okay right I think most people probably say hey can

He just be a rotation guy which might be what what he Nets out as um but I think if he can really start to knock down the three then you you can see that kind of ceiling but I I think overall obviously you think of what you would dream of in

This scenario is is having like an OG okay all right and cost you 40 million so you know but I think that’s what you’re looking for at that position unless RJ Barrett really Trends upwards defensively right and I think that can kind of change uh how you view this but

I think next to Emanuel quickley next to RJ Barrett you want someone who can be that guy you look at you know the opposing team’s best scorer and be like okay this is what we got for you okay like how do you evaluate Gary’s defense

Not well okay um I think he has a real knack for getting into a guy’s dribble and being able to when he’s up in a jersey Poke Balls free and create offense the other way off of that which is a very valuable skill um but I think

That sometimes that comes at the expense of more sound defense keeping a man in front of him um that was a little more acceptable in the nick nurse era when OG was around and other guys were were there as well and it was a better defensive ecosystem because there were

More guys to cover for that U that scheme prioritized taking those kind of gambles whether at the nail the elbow extended even on your man um you know letting a guy beat beat you over the screen and trying to poke it free from behind or reie contest like those were

Kind of their principles then in a team like team scenario like this um where it’s a little more conservative where the defensive Talent around him isn’t as much um maybe with yaka purle healthy you can get there a little bit with the paint protection um but those risks are

Riskier in this environment and I don’t think he’s been able to scale that part of his nature back and be more sound I don’t think he’s the worst defender in the NBA um but I don’t think he’s as good as you know the fact that he averag

1.7 steals the one year and had trended upward like he’s not he’s not that level of a guy uh he’s not that large also um which you know when you’re already playing quickly and RJ at two spots you’d probably like someone a little bit bigger nomally so but would you want someone to

Defend the point of attack though because I feel like Scotty can be like probably your wing Defender and then you need a guy who can guard the guards and sure but I don’t I don’t think that’s Gary TR Jr and I think I think with what you’re about to pay Emanuel quickly he

Has to become that guy and he’s he certainly has not done a great job of that since he’s arrived in Toronto he’s he’s a much better team level Defender than point of attack Defender but that is the challenge for me like like the way you’re about to pay Emanuel quickly

He needs to be probably that guy for you like you you can’t have else do that job not unless you’re committing to playing pretty small because generally like I I get it oai could be technically your point of attack Defender but I think we’ve seen he’s a little better

Off against the kind of more Wing forward types um and also like yeah it’s just like it’s got to be quickly has got to be better in that role at least to the extent like like he’s at least got to get to where they can use him like

They use Dennis this year where against most point guards he gets that assignment initially and you’re not having to retool you like if Quick’s going to make 22 $25 million a year he’s going to have to improve as that guy okay well that’s a separate question may

We’ll get to in a different episode but I think okay so if Gary’s going to be your starter what do you pay him and if he’s going to be your reserve what do you pay him because obviously that’s going to have a big impact on what do

You decide to do with them I mean first off I I guess do you guys want Gary back for next season both of you guys I I think if you can find that salary range between you know 12 12 to 15 I think that’s where 12 to 15 million

I think that’s where I can see the fit I but do you think it’s easy to sell them on a pay cut no I I think there would definitely be a chall he’s making 18 right now yeah but that’s where I kind of Drew the comparables with uh players

From last season okay last offseason and what they got right like you look he he got four years 62 million okay so that’s just over 15 mil a year and I I don’t think that’s fair the market is the market yeah I don’t think people would say that K Tren junr is a

Better player than Max dreu yeah mid-level projects to be about 13 million um so you know maybe you give him a hair like maybe you split the difference between what he’s making now and the mid- level and basically if he’s not game for that like I don’t know like

Obviously these things are are very rough metrics but he grades out to be about a three to three and a half win player and in basketball that’s worth 11 to 14 million in the current cap enviren um so you know you could justify going a little above the mid-level because of

The certainty because he’s guy you know he’s a culture fit and things like that um if he wants the deal he’s currently on certainly if he wants the type of deal that was theorized uh when he picked up his player option both potential extensions at that point I

Think you have to just like tell him okay go out and beat the mid level on the market if you can beat the mid level from someone else we can have that conversation but you know the Raptors have at times paid their guys full Freight to keep them without you know

Like there there have been a couple times I’m not sure that deal was there somewhere else like the yaka deal I don’t know that he had 4 years 78 million he did have the leverage of you traded the the pick for me so you better

To resign me you do and like guys you know they they last year they were in a bit of what I what I is called the bird rights trap where if you don’t resign your guys you risk them walking for nothing because you’re not going to have

Cap space otherwise the Raptors at least could get into cap space this offseason so they have a little bit of Leverage in the Gary negotiations if we could use this elsewhere but yeah I think that’s where you’re at like you could go to 15 million justify paying a premium on the

Mid- level cuz he’s your guy and you know him well and things like that um but beyond that I think you got to tell him go beat that deal somewhere else exactly and you might if you’re going to spend that much money you might as well slurge on someone else I I well

I mean it would be contingent on other players being willing to take that money to come to Toronto for that role and if there is a replacement like I will be okay but if there’s no replacement and we’re just losing Gary over one or two million then that’s where I’m like I’d

Rather just keep him right that’s that’s fair yeah that if it comes down to that then you know you would rather maintain a player on your roster I think the other point of Leverage for the r as well is you’ve already paid for potential ones like when Gary got the

Threeyear 51 million deal uh he was coming off making 1.6 million the previous year okay yeah and so as a 22 year old they gave him a potential deal and so you look at what he’s accomplished in those in these three seasons you would not say that he’s

Grown a significant amount in terms of what he is as a player if he did show that secondary skill you know like the defense on a consistent basis um playmaking all that kind of stuff and I feel like sometimes it does feel a little unfair cuz his role is just like

To finish um so it’s not like all of a sudden you’re like well where are the assists you know like right the job is to to score but also at the same time like you would feel a lot more comfortable if you had a secondary world

The other question is just you know how long is it going to take Grady to get to the point where he’s at Gary’s level or even better because you would not obviously want to block him but for me personally if you were to reup him for

Another year or two on his like similar to what he’s currently making like it doesn’t really bother me if you go that short then yeah you can you can pay I think that’s ultimate where they’re going to land up I don’t worry that much about blocking you need more than five

Good players even guys coming off the bench like they they are at a talent deficit right now I’m not worried about having too many good players yeah well that do it for us today I’ve been your host W you’ve been listening to the Raptor show on the sports radio network

Brought to you by Campbell’s new chunky spicy soup it’s time to get fired up make sure you find the Raptor show where we listen to podcast and again we are at 11:00 a.m. that’s where you will find the show thanks once again to Alm our board producer Lance Kennedy Jennifer

David says CH man for helping behind the scenes thanks for our guest with Jacob and we’ll talk to you tomorrow

William Lou and Blake Murphy are joined in-studio by friend of the show Vivek Jacob to discuss the recent reports surrounding Jontay Porter and sports betting’s role within sports. Later on, the trio look at Gary Trent Jr.’s future with the Raptors and whether he is the ideal starting shooting guard for the team next season.

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0:00 – Jontay Porter reaction
33:45 – Gary Trent Jr.’s future

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