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Why History Tells Us the New York Knicks are in Trouble



Why History Tells Us the New York Knicks are in Trouble

the last time the New York Knicks went to the Conference Finals was back at the turn of the century back when George W Bush was still in office watching movies on DVDs was all the rage and this thing called the worldwide web was taking off in the New Millennium I’m Paul perkenstein and welcome to the wide world of web and what was tough about losing in that Conference Finals in the year 2000 was that it really was their last chance to try and win a championship now that Michael Jordan was no longer a threat and after losing in the finals the prior year in a lockout season Patrick Ying nearing the end of his career 2000 was their year their chance to win a title for the first time since 1973 but Reggie Miller and the Indiana Pacers as we had seen them do in years past were too much for the Aging Knicks to take home the Larry obrien trophy but this year the Knicks for the first time seem poised to make their way back to the Conference Finals finishing second in the Eastern Conference going against a Pacers Squad that had a lot to prove with the budding young Talent of Tyrese halberton leading the charge the Nick were up a 3-2 lead on the series with just one game away and making it back to a place they hadn’t been in nearly a quarter Century but unfortunately for the Knicks due to a host of injuries plugging their key players they were unable to close out the series and would get blown out on their own home court in game seven but while the Knicks can shake this one off attribute it to some bad injury luck regroup and come back strong healthy and ready to go The Following Season while hopefully making additional roster improvements over the offseason as well but what if I told you there was a a fundamental problem with this Knicks team that history tells us will prevent them from reaching their true potential and no it’s not any one player but rather the coaching staff more specifically head coach Tom thibo and I’ll explain why in this video as always if you’re new to the channel you like this type of content it would mean a great deal to me if you subscribe to help the channel grow and in return I’ll be providing more NBA content like this now as a diard Chicago Bulls plan I want to be clear that Tom thibo is one of my all-time favorite Bulls coaches which maybe isn’t saying much because outside of Phil Jackson The Bull have had some pretty lousy coaches over the years but I think Tom thibo is an excellent coach hardworking No Nonsense and gets the most out of his players and expects them to put forth maximum effort when they’re on the court he knows and understands the game well and is great at in-game execution and preparing his team for some of the toughest matchups and I personally think that tibs doesn’t get the credit he deserves as one of the better coaches in the NBA the problem with Tom tiido is he has one flaw that throughout the course of his coaching career he just can’t seem to shake and it’s one that people tend to focus on most when assessing his abilities as a coach and that’s time management load management and taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture of the Season at large rather than just looking at every game in isolation now injuries are part of basketball there are always going to be injuries in the NBA in any given season some being more significant than others and while there are certain things that can be done to prevent injuries as much as possible such as proper conditioning rest medical treatment diet sometimes injuries are just out of one’s control control and you can’t fault the player coaching staff or medical staff for it so while we can sit here and say that Tom thibo plays his guys into the ground without consideration for their long-term Health the fact of the matter is some players are just more injury-prone than others and freak injuries are not something for which you can simply blame the coach for that said when there is a common Trend in a history of player injuries or careers being cut short under the same coach it does beg to question whether these injury circumstances are just a coincidence or whether there’s a direct Cor ation between a coach’s coaching style and philosophy that makes players more susceptible to injuries and so I took a look at Tom Theo’s coaching history starting from when he was with the bulls his brief stint in Minnesota to now being with the Knicks in Tomo’s first season with the bulls he of course took an average Bulls team who was the middle of the pack in the Eastern Conference and led them to finishing with the best record in the league and taking the Bulls to their first Conference Finals appearance since Michael Jordan tibs would go on to win Coach of the Year Rose would become the youngest player in NBA history to win MVP and this young Bulls team with a core of Rose Noah and Deng look poised to bring a title back to Chicago since the 90s Dynasty but while The Following season coming out of the lockout year the bulls look better than ever and locked in and getting their revenge on the big three Miami Heat things took a turn for the worst when Derrick Rose went down with an injury and game one for the first round of the playoffs a game in which the Bulls were up 12 with less than a minute and a half to go this was tibs Mo we just talked about the 26 games he has missed you have your best player out on the court no matter the circumstance of the game he didn’t care how it looked on the outside resting and load management be damped he was going to ride with his guys the ones he felt the most comfortable with no matter what and when you look back at that prior season in 2011 a few things stand out both LEL Deng and Derrick Rose played over 3,000 minutes that season Deng finished third in the league in total minutes while Rose ranked ninth for context not a single player played more than 3,000 minutes in the NBA this season while two of the B’s best players in that season surpassed with East luell Deng played in all 82 games that season averaging 39.1 minutes per game the Bulls would also have five players play all 82 games in the 20101 season The Following Season while the Bulls still finished with the best record in the league people forgot that Rose missed a significant amount of time during the regular season from various injuries throughout that year only playing in 39 of the 66 available games luel Deng also missed 12 games due to injury That season but would end up leading the league in minutes per game at 39.4 when he was available even when the Bulls were up 20 points in the fourth quarter Deng would remain in the game as with rose and Jem Noah those were tibs guys the guys that he would ride with even if the game was Out Of Reach of course we all know that the ACL injury to Rose would set him back and ultimately he would never come back to being the same player that we once knew was subsequent injuries that would follow the ACL ter what people sometimes don’t remember though is Joe Keem Noah also got hurt in that first round series against the Sixers after after Rose tour his ACL which would all but seal the Bulls faith in losing in that first round and in the seasons that would precede that one with no rose being in the lineup Noah and Deng would continue to be top 10 in the league in minutes with Deng consistently leading the NBA in minutes per game year after year when it was clear that Rose was no longer going to return to the form Jimmy Butler became the new tibs treadmill which became even more the case when the Bulls traded Deng Midway through the year once Deng was traded away from Chicago though and would later on to go play for the Miami Heat Den quickly declined as a player and would be out of the league just five seasons later at the age of 33 how about Jem Noah once Tom Theo’s tenure ended with the bulls after being fired in 2015 this of course after Noah had missed nearly 20% of his games from injury in that final tib season but after tip’s departure Fred hyberg took over and Noah eventually leaving to go to the Knicks Joe Keem was a complete shell of himself after sustaining various injuries leading up to 2015 Noah like Deng would also fall off as a player and be out of the league in just five seasons after and really borderline being an unplayable player by the age of 31 how about the Minnesota Timberwolves though Tom thibo would coach the Wolves for two and a half Seasons before being let go and like the Bulls he would have his three go-to guys that he would rarely take off the floor those being Zack LaVine Andrew Wiggins and Carl Anthony towns Zack LaVine would end up playing the most minutes per game and would tear his ACL Midway through the season at the age of 21 in that first year that tibs was head coach Wiggins and Cat would each average over 37 minutes per game and play all 82 games Wiggins and towns would finish the season first and second in the entire NBA in total minutes played both surpassing 3,000 minutes on the Year Ricky Rubio would also go on to play the most minutes of his career and we gone to suffer a multitude of future injuries and lead to an early retirement at the age of 32 while cat and Wiggins would never suffer any major injuries during the tibs era they would both later on go through injuries of their own that would keep them and out of the lineup over the preceding Seasons now as for the New York Knicks the team that we’re all here to talk about they saw their season abruptly end in large part due to their short-handed roster going into the East semis like as good as the Indiana Pacers have been and they’ve had a nice little playoff run you can’t tell me they were beating the Knicks team a Knicks team that was fully healthy and in fact you could even go further to say they likely weren’t getting past the Bucks either if yanis had actually played but for the Knicks everything had been going right for them after they made the trades for OG on anobi which which I thought was an incredible deal for them and he fits perfectly into the tibs archetype of a desired player they further bolster the roster by making trades for Boya bogdanovich Alec Burks post the OG on anobi trade the Knicks were one of the best teams in the NBA and I’m not saying that was solely because of OG since he actually missed some time shortly after he got to New York but the Knicks were a new team and looked like probably the best Nick team we have seen since the late ’90s but tibs man he found his new three boys the guys to to squeeze every last minute of them on the court those three guys being OG anobi Josh Hart and Jaylen Brunson the three guys would close out the season post Allstar break with all three of them being in the top five minutes played in those final 26 games of the Season even when Games Were Out Of Reach even against some of the tanking teams who were putting out g-league lineups in the final games of the year tibs just could not help himself consistent rotations building chemistry and relying on his main guys is what he’s used to and he’s never going to let anyone tell him otherwise you play for tibs you better be ready to come work for tibs though he took this philosophy to a new level when the Knicks entered the playoffs now granted rotations are always going to be much thinner in the postseason starters are going to be getting the majority of playing time with coaches generally going seven or eight men deep but for tibs what he did was pretty unprecedented in playing Josh har a complete game the whole 48 minutes three times in the postseason that doesn’t include the 53 full minutes he played in game five against the Sixers a complete Game including the 5 minutes of overtime four complete games in a seven game span for Josh Hart that is the most any player has ever played in NBA history over a seven game span regular season or playoffs since the 70s before the NBA ABA merger by game four of the series versus the Pacers after playing his ninth straight 40 plus minute game in the playoffs Josh Hart was spent and with injuries to ogan anobi bogdanovich and of course Randall and Mitchell Robinson Hartwood have one of his worst games of the postseason in a blowout loss to the Pacers in game four and it would later come out that he had suffered an abdominal strain that would impact his play for the rest of the series despite trying to play through the pain on anobi who had played 46 50 45 and 42 minutes respectively in four straight games between the end of the first round in game one versus the Pacers would leave in the third quarter of game two with a left hamstring injury and despite OG’s efforts to return in a series closing game seven after missing the four prior games but right away it was clear OG was not ready to make his return and would be subbed out after playing Just 5 minutes in game seven but on top of all the other injuries the Knicks had sustained in a long grueling season things really hit its head when Brunson had to leave early in game seven after breaking his left hand now here’s the thing freak injuries happen such as what we saw from Jaylen Brunson and the injuries to OG Josh Hart and the season ending injuries to Julius Randall and Mitchell Robinson can be attributed to just the physical game of basketball but you also can’t ignore the fact that we’ve seen this occur in wear and tear of players who have played under Tom thibo and how it’s not only put them out of the lineup at the most crucial times of the season but more importantly how it is negatively impacted their careers long term with often abrupt declines in play and a fast track to early retirement while I love Tom thibo and I believe he’s one of the more gifted basketball minds of this generation his Achilles heel though of overplaying his favorite players is what will eventually run him out of the league as a head coach and for the Knicks while their team might not seem promising and would have had more success had they not running the injury bug the problem is history tells us the injury bug is more likely to occur again with Tom thid at the hell something us Bulls fans just know all too well let me know what you guys think though let me know in the comments as always be sure to subscribe and I’ll see you in the next one

Discussing the future of the New York Knicks and the biggest problem going into next season (*editing credit: Alon Ginz)

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48 Comments

  1. This is why I was hoping a front office will not let him Coach again. But the Knicks GMs had to give him that chance. I wont be surprised if many of these players breakdown in a few years.

  2. Some injuries are just pure bad luck, and have nothing to do with the “rest factor.” Robinson, Randle, Bogey, OG, and Brunson (in that order) were all just freak injuries.

    Josh Hart’s is the only one I’d argue came as a result of all his mins, and even then he got hit in the sides in game 6.

    This is not a Thibs issue all the time, it’s simply bad luck. Next take

  3. "In trouble"…. This is the dumb take for the week. And you clowns in the comments are praising him đŸ€Ł đŸ€Ł đŸ€Ł đŸ€Ł

  4. I remember regularly chatting with friends about Jimmy Butler consistently playing all 48 minutes back in his Bulls days.

    Thibs still hasn’t realized running your starters into the ground is not a championship winning formula.

  5. The Knicks I think are actually in a better place than they've been in a long time. Hopefully this performance and last year to an extent will make them more appealing to others as contenders.
    They got a good team mentality there in New York with die hard fans and they play with a lot of heart.

  6. Luol Deng, Jimmy Butler, Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah and now the Knicks players smh. This man runs his players into the ground and their bodies start breaking down before the age of 33 it's madness. This man has no busines being a head coach, he's an excellent defensive coordinator but he needs extremel oversight.

  7. This is an incredibly stupid video. According to you, it’s all Thibs’ fault that:

    – Randle dislocated his shoulder in a freak accident going full speed downhill while trying to avoid Jaime Jacquez Jr. who was drawing a charge. He was still in that game at that point because Miami was playing all of their starters (Rozier, Herro, Butler, Jacquez Jr, Adebayo) and they were trying to scrape out a win amidst a 5-game losing streak.

    – Mitch needed ankle surgery in another freak accident after he was flagrant fouled. He reaggravated his ankle and would need ankle surgery again after Embiid flagrant fouled him in the Philly series.

    – OG injured his hamstring on a fastbreak after he took an awkward, wrong step (another freak accident). He was also out for a chunk of the regular season after he had to have surgery to remove a bone spur (I'm sure Thibs was entirely responsible for that and magically gave him a bone spur just for fun).

    – Bogdanovic got hurt in a freak accident after Nic Batum fell on top of his leg while diving for a loose ball.

    – Hart got collided into 5 minutes into the first quarter of game 6 while jumping for a rebound, then reaggravated his abdomen again literally 2 minutes later while trying to box out on defense (another freak accident).

    – Brunson broke his hand in a freak accident while trying to swat the ball away from a 1 on 1 defensive fastbreak possession against Haliburton.

    You literally cannot blame a single injury entirely on Thibs and his decision to play our best players when we can trace literally all of said injuries to individual, freak accidents and not definitively to wear and tear from being 'overplayed.' Especially considering that as these freak accidents piled up, that meant that Thibs had no choice but to give more minutes to our best guys and run shorter 6-7 man rotations. Did you want Thibs to play the starting five only 25 minutes a game and give extended minutes to Jacob Toppin, DaQuan Jeffries, and Jericho Sims against Philly and Indy? Do you even know who those players are? Did you want DaQuan Jeffries trying to guard Maxey or Haliburton? Did you want Jericho Sims on Embiid or Siakim? Are you being intentionally dumb here?

    The Knicks' rotations and minutes distributions prior to Randle and OG going down in the regular season were objectively good with rarely anyone playing 36-40+ min a game (and this was with Mitchell Robinson and at the time Quentin Grimes being out too). Speaking of minutes, Donte DiVincenzo led the Knicks in minutes in his last 5 games (186 min). Anthony Edwards, in his last 5 games, has played 208 minutes WHILE BEING ON A FULLY HEALTHY WOLVES SQUAD. Where's the outrage there? You are an intellectually lazy, uninformed, wannabe-NBA know-it-all who doesn't actually know anything about the Knicks but pretends to have the knowledge of actual Knicks fans because he follows mainstream lolknicks narratives and wants the easy views to dogpile on top of a team he has no understanding of.

  8. UNTIL THE KNICKS SOLVE THE INJURY PROBLEM AND THE MYSTERY BEHIND THESE INJURIES THE KNICKS WILL NOT BE GOING ANYWHERE. I THINK JIM DOLAN IS KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON TIBBS THIS SEASON

  9. As much as thibs is to blame for DRose's demise. DRose himself have bad habits in conditioning and technique that didnt help his case.

  10. You put all this effort in just to be wrong. Its somehow Thibs Fault Randle tried to dunk on a guy taking a charge? Its somehow Thibs fault Mitch messed up his bad ankle right? Or Batum diving on Bogdanovic's ankle, or Brunson fracturing his wrist trying to swipe a ball out of a players hand . Somehow Randle and Brunson being 15th and 16th in MPG is Thibs having a time management problem. Somehow Thibs is the only coach in NBA history that leaves their starters in during a blowout right? You expect Thibs to play 3rd stringers in the playoffs? Are you that stupid? Hart is on video telling Thibs he'll play 48 minutes if he has to. Hart said it himself that Thibs would ask if he needed to rest and he told him no. But of course you would ignore that to get your narrative. Ewing had ice bags on his knees when he played, thats what playing basketball for a living can do. Watch some fucking games next time and cut the bullshit.

  11. Wasn’t there a poll of former and nba players asking Which coach would you least like to have? It was clear. No one wants to play for Thibs.

  12. Look we can blame Thibs for overplaying his players, but then again the Bucks the Clippers the Heat and I guess the Sixers all weren’t healthy.

  13. i’m not worried. this injury crisis came at the wrong time. No Randle, Mitchell, Bogdanovic, then losing OG, Brunson, and Hart, plus some bench options meant that the roster was spread horribly thin. There was no choice but to play players insane minutes, because the alternative is jericho sims and shake milton. just add another capable bench player and take the off season to get back to full strength and it’s good.

    Things will learn from this humbling defeat

  14. lol they're in trouble because OG is not going to resign, and they overachieved this year. They are just the hawks from a few years ago

  15. This team WAS deeper than the Pacific ocean. The freak injuries were already there before this crisis. Context matters. Im not worried because the first domino was a dislocated shoulder by Randle who should be traded anyway. We play better without him.

    This caused the PF/C core to be overused & Mitchell Robinson got hurt. That meant Hart had to be used more.

    OG was already hurt before he got to us & if you watch the games he always looks gassed out there. Drinking his red Gatorade & leaning to the side like he is about to die. So I knew conditioning was an issue for him. Jordan never looked like that. He needs to hit the gym!

    Brunson hurt his hand which has nothing to do with minutes & his leg had to do with landing on someone which happens all the time & was bad luck.

    Bogey was battling his injury all year even before he came to the knicks. Its kinda why we got him so cheap.

    This is all being blown out of proportion. See you in the finals next year!

  16. 🚹🚹🚹 Clickbait Alert
    This is the biggest false narrative. If you paid attention to this season, there's no way you blame Thibs. Clearly an outsider's opinion who doesn't follow the team, the front office or the games closely & works off headlines. SMH at the laziness of content creators these days.

  17. This vid would make sense if the Knicks injuries thru out the season were caused by time management. Dislocated shoulder(freak accident), elbow strain(freak), and now ur done 2 starters plus the 2 rotation players u got og for so yea gonna be a tight line up until u get bogey and burks, and then they suck at the start so can’t play them too much if u wanna win. Go into the playoffs w a 8 man rotation(which is pretty normal) but then boom 2 of those 8 get injured w a stepped on ankle and a laid on ankle(don’t rly see how time management helps that) so yea now ur done to what would’ve been a 6 man rotation from ur original 10 i understand y u play ur ppl a lot of minutes.

    To continue, lebron played 42 min a game 82 games a season his first 3 seasons, d rose played 37 min max. Can we recognize that maybe d rose was just injury prone. The only validity to a statement is that thibs plays his players too long in games that aren’t close, which I think is fair back in 2012, but today 15 point comebacks can and have happened in the last 5 min of game, I don’t necessarily agree keeping players in but I understand it

  18. I trully question this criticism, Thibb's had no choice during the playoffs to go with the team he did 3 of his starter where injured during the regular season. Julius Randle shoulder injury occurred during an unnecessary overly aggressive play. Robinson always has issues with his ankles, OG always been injury prone, and Josh Hart abdominal injury was just a freak accident.

  19. Who are you bro? Real Nyers ride with coach Thibs, this is the culture nyers were asking for and he has built it. Stop putting that narrative out there on Thibs.

  20. Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Clippers, New Orleans all had major injuries this year… coaches fault?.. Larry Bird said "If you can't play 48 minutes you need to go home."

  21. I'm not convinced. Picking examples like that doesn't really tell us anything. Unless you can provide a statistical analysis about how minutes played correlate with injuries over a large sample size, it's just speculation. You'd have to prove that other coaches/teams/players that consider load management etc. actually have fewer injuries to deal with. I think it's quite unfair to blame injuries on the coach based on some superficial analysis without real substance.

    Also, if someone leads the league in minutes played like in the examples you gave, that means they were basically not injured at all. Be careful how you draw conclusions from data.

  22. So what you’re telling me is that Thibs is cursed đŸ€·đŸŸâ€â™‚ïž? Not a good injury history

  23. This just proves yall blindly hate Thibs and will blame him for everything. 90% of the injuries the Knicks dealt with would’ve happened whether or not Thibs adjusted their minutes.

    Why? Because they were fucking contact injuries. “Why was Randle still in the game” maybe because Miami had all of their starters still in the damn game trying to make a comeback tf.

  24. People really act like every NBA team should just play 5 guys every game the entire season 900 minutes and tell them to tough it out 😂 injuries and managing human physical limits is part of athletics whether you like it or not

  25. The Clippers and Pelicans always have half their roster on the IR by the end of the year and nobody blaming Tyronn Lue or Willie Green for injuries. Lazy take. Also OG’s weakness was being injury prone to begin with THATS why all we had to give up was RJ Barrett and Quickley to get him

  26. Thankyou, as a Knick fan I got caught up in the season but this view from your pragmatic lens makes sense. It does because as a math guy I live in the predictive analytics space and as we say ‘history always repeats itself’. Given the trend of his past
and current coaching methodology it is Tibs and Tibs alone who should do some soul searching and bend. I hope he does for his sake, the players and the city.

  27. As a knick fan thibs has bad time management, Josh Hart abdominal strain and Anunobi hamstring strain were 100% his fault. If those same exact plays happened but they were playing 20 mins less those injuries would have never happen as the muscles wouldnt have been as worn down. Strains/tears are much more likely to occur from overuse and not enough rest. Dont understand why thibs defenders are in denial. He needs an assistant coach specifically for time/load management.

  28. this narrative is way overplayed. majority of the injuries were things you can’t help. he had no other choice to play heavy minutes, half the roster was injured already

  29. This is dumb lol so did Dame play too many minutes in his career? Kawhi ? Paul George? Giannis ? Zion? Anthony Davis ? Ben Simmons ? Lamelo? Embiid ? Oladipo ?

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