The Fall & Rise Of The New York Knicks After The 1973 Championship!

The Fall & Rise Of The New York Knicks After The 1973 Championship!

all right here we go salute to Nicks Nation CP the franchise here special edition of Nicks fan TV uh Today’s Show we have Adam cribley he is the author of kings of the garden the New York Knicks and their city and it is set to be released on April 15th and he is also a professor of Southeast Missouri University Adam welcome to Nick fan TV how you doing today I’m good thanks for having me CP A absolutely so uh take us through your your your Nick’s origin story what what did the New York Knicks mean to you coming up as a kid you know it’s funny so I grew up in Ohio um not anywhere near anywhere near New York but uh I was a big video game player and when the game techmo NBA basketball came out in I don’t know 8990 or whatever like the Knicks were my squad like that’s who I ran with and so um starting with video games that that kind of got me hook and then NBA Jam and then obviously it was a good time to be a Knicks fan back in the in the mid90s with with Oak and ying and uh and Starck and all them so uh yeah so I got introduced through through b uh through through video games actually yeah I I think I remember that techmo video game that basketball where you would play and then sometimes when you take a three-pointer they would do like that motion graphic that like that little cinematography and that always meant that you were going to make it in know exactly yep yep that’s when I’d stand up and start cheering and yep yeah no those are those are some good days for sure uh who who was who was your favorite Nick was it Oakley or or uh Y no I mean I was a Mason guy I like the I like the point forward like that was who I like I I I patterned my game after even though I was you know not built like Mason for sure but uh no he was my guy ma was that guy actually as at the time that we’re recording this uh just two days ago it’s been n years since his untimely passing so Russ and PE Anthony Mason he was a fan favorite of mine and many among this Nick’s fan base so he he was definitely sorely missed and in terms of the book like like what inspired you to uh to write the book yeah so uh I wrote an NBA basketball book about the 1970s that came out a few years ago and when I was doing research there was a line in it in which Peter vessie who was writing for the New York Post uh referred to the 1979 Knicks uh with the n-word right so it was the first all black NBA team and so at the time I put a little Aster next to it and was like look I need to I need to look into this more and as I dug a little more it was like all right there’s this really cool story about the Nyx and it’s the same time like hip hop is is just emerging from the South Bronx and so like all this is going on at once and so um yes that that was kind of what what caught my eye and then I got to to learn about some of the personalities and the players that played back then and it was like yeah I gotta got to write this book so this is your second book because tall tale and short shorts that was that was your first book right so so my first book about basketball your first book about basketball so what’s that research process like what what did the research process entail for this one yeah so this one um I did you know I looked at a bunch of newspapers and and magazines and articles and and stuffff then I talked to a couple dozen um former players uh coaches um general managers that sort of thing just to kind of see what it was like actually in the locker room and on the court with those guys so this one went a little deeper than just like looking at old newspapers and sports illustrat and and and books and stuff so yeah uh I started researching in about 2016 and and wrapped up research about a year ago so so about seven years worth of uh of research on this one you you interviewed a number of individuals huie Brown uh Bob macadoo who was your favorite of the bunch so uh huie was amazing um just because he was you know he sharp as attack at 99 man right I know and I mean you would have had no idea on the telephone cuz it you know I I I’ve got my I’m fortunate I’ve got a couple grandfathers that are still alive and both are both are hu’s age yeah and man I I talking on the phone is is hard but like huie was sharp and he was on top of things and so it was it was pretty amazing to talk to him he was he was probably my favorite I also uh I really enjoyed getting to talk to Jim Clemens who came over when Walt Frasier left uh Clemens was just a real like real nice guy like he was he was happy to to talk forever and so we exchanged text back and forth for for quite a while after that the the huie just he’s just A A Relic he’s a National Treasure I mean I’m I’m watching you know National TV games on ESPN and subie brown breaking the Nick game down to a science and it’s refreshing because you know no offense to certain people in the game but you know certain you don’t get that commentary everywhere and for for for a man 99 years old a lifer in this game you know traveled all over the world every stop all cities being a coach and and calling the game he he’s been an absolute treasure to the game man 100% 100% % so as you you did your research and your interviews what was that like what was a wow moment for you as you’re doing your research and you you’re putting this together what what was that for you so the wow moment for me was really like um getting to you know talking to the players I think was obviously the biggest moment but the the wow moment for me was when I started to make those connections between like hip hop and and the NBA uh and just like seeing how the NBA came to Embrace like by the end of the end of the uh uh end of the time I’m looking at like by the mid 80s they’re starting to embrace hip-hop uh it’s becoming popular there the players are listening to it they’re going to the clubs and listening to it like that was my aha moment when I was like look I’m not telling two stories I’m telling one story like I’m telling the story of of the significant Black Culture that’s emerging from uh from not only Madison Square Garden but also the South Bronx from downtown and Uptown like that was really my aha moment when it all kind of tied together and it didn’t come until like six years in but but like it was exciting to get there yeah and that’s what I really liked in terms of how you wo those you know those those changes those Evolutions kind of together where how the Knicks were trying to navigate the post championship years and and how that genre was just coming out from a time of struggle a time of survival for for many and then at the same time you know how the Confluence of those two entities as time goes by in in the book you you you kind of weave through as certain time certain years where you take a look at it from the Nick’s point of view and then what was happening in our time what was the thought process in terms of how you structured that in the book yeah so I really wanted it to be a story where readers are reminded that yes the Knicks are going and you know they’re having UPS they’re having Downs they’re getting new players they’re having some excitement they’re changing coaches but also like you can’t separate them from the city in which they’re playing right like they’re playing in a city that was facing like serious economic issues that has you know a famous uh world series called the Bronx is burning like you can’t separate it from that because the players couldn’t separate themselves from that like they’re they’re having to play in a city in which the fans are are very re you know cognizant they know what’s going on within their city and so um I didn’t want to get too far away from the Nick story but I felt like there were a lot of times when it was good to kind of take a step back and just say look here’s what’s going on in New York City at the time that these Knicks are trying to win on the court we’ve got the Son of Sam killer we’ve got you know the the the Blackout um uh rioting in in 1977 um you know all these things going on that like I felt I felt like couldn’t be divorced from the Nick Story so I didn’t want to just give it its own chapter or whatever I felt that it was good to to to kind of have readers take a step back and and see the context that the Knicks were playing in it’s a great story also when you look at it from a Nick’s point of view and and especially for Nick’s fans who you know that older generation who saw that that team and that era they can reminisce but for the younger fans it’s really a dark and hidden chapter in the franchise’s history because it were always you know heralding and rightfully sold that 71 and 73 team and then then we jump right into the U Knicks you know yes we we we love Bernard and and the Bernard era although short was was well loved by the fan base but then you jump right into Ying Nicks but that time for them to try to maintain that Championship Glory and they’re chasing after Stars just like they have recently right they’re after Abdul Jabar they’re after Chamberlain and then the the Spencer Haywood madoo they it’s like they went star hunting we we talk about star hunting with the Knicks now but post Championship Knicks that’s exactly how they were trying to position themselves to stay on top yeah it is and it’s funny that that you mention the the modern Knicks because every you know as I was writing the book there were talks of you know is KD going to be a Nick is you know all these kind of superstars connected to I was like like man they’ve been doing this for 40 years now doing the same thing it it’s it’s never changed man that when I was reading that segment of the book I I just cracked up at all the wh ifs and I’m just I’m wincing in pain and like you know Jabar jabl and skipping out on Larry Bird and opted for for Michael Ray Richardson I mean th those times were were truly epic you know the Spencer Haywood story was was very interesting was there a reason were you able to connect with him or was there a reason why he wasn’t able to uh connect for the book yes so um I I I got his phone number and I I I sent some texts I I called him you know he he didn’t answer the phone didn’t answer the phone I left messages uh one time he picked up and I you know tried to give him my quick like Mr Haywood this is Dr Adam kbbl at Southeast you know I’m giving him my 30 second elevator pitch and uh I don’t remember his exact words but it was basically like I don’t want to talk to you and and hung up and and it was fine like I I get that and he’s you know fortunately with Spencer Haywood he’s written a number of of Auto iography so you kind of get a sense of what he thought but yeah I would have loved to been able to talk to him just because I mean he’s such a central story in or Central character in my story and uh and it was a shame I wasn’t able to connect with him for sure and and he’s traded around the same time you know Bob mackadoo is another figure who a lot of the older generation always say like man if you guys would have seen this guy live I mean he was an absolute Beast what were your conversations like with uh with Bob Madu a well-respected figure around the NBA even to today yeah he was very gracious um he called me from I believe it was after Heap practice uh and he you know called me from one of the phones in the offices there and just said you know he thanked me for for talking to him like he couldn’t have been more gracious and he was great like he was he was great about giving credit to his teammates and uh and and but also being able to talk candidly and just let me know how much he enjoyed New York and playing in New York City but also that that it was a challenge and and that he wishes it would have ended better than it did um but that he was grateful to get the opportunity cuz of he goes from there to end up he ends up being um an important player for the Lakers in their Championship run in the 80s so he was he was very grateful for all the opportunities he had but yeah he was amazing to talk to and he’s one that like I I pull the phone away from my face and uh I like I whispered to my wife I was like I’m on the phone with Bob McAdoo she I have no idea who Bob madoo is I was really excited about it oh man that that’s very interesting man and you know another I think very poignant theme in the book was or very very key moment in the in the story to me is is uh 79 when the team rolled out the first all black team in the NBA and the sentiment or the perceived sentiment of what that meant to the league as the league was trying to uh recover you know lower attendance lack of interest you had the Peter vessie with with his article what did you make about that time as as the league and the Knicks were were trying to find that identity that was going to appeal to to all their fans you know that was that was one area that all the players that I talked to kind of downplayed um I think that they were probably tired at the time of hearing it ask you know being asked that question uh in hindsight I mean it’s it’s it’s something that we rightfully celebrate right that the that the league would have an all black team um and at a time again that’s so significant in in New York City history but but yeah I mean looking back it’s incredibly important but at the time it was it was very heavily debated as to whether it was a good thing or a bad thing uh because there were there were legitimate questions um you know owners were concerned about about ticket sales and ticket sales as you mentioned fan interest in the NBA was dropping um and of course the easy scapegoat is to say well there’s too many black faces on the team uh and so that you know what what was interesting then um since then is that like the NBA is growing you know the last five to six years is growing you know growing across all fan groups um and and has never been more you know more diverse and more you know embracing its diversity than ever before so it’s it’s it’s you know a little smug looking back and saying you know the owners were wrong man if if they had Embrace that that difference but uh but yeah it was an incredibly important time and and the way that all of the all of the front office handled it then and handled it still when I talked to him recently um you know they said look we we got the 12 best players that we had available and so until until we made our final cuts and we trotted them out for the team picture we really didn’t think about the fact that they were in all African-American team but but then I think at the time they even leaned into it said this is you know this is a good thing what what did you make of the role that media played during that time in terms of depicting the NBA or their perceptions of the NBA you spoke about uh the polarizing opinions from a harvey Aron to to a Peter vessie what you think about the way the media was depicting the league during that time based on your research yeah so the the media was I I think trying to get a handle on why interest in the NBA was was falling um so the two things that they latched on to were drug use and uh a changing demographic among among players so players were becoming you know the players that were playing were were more often uh African-American and there was increased drug use not only among players but like celebrities in Hollywood and so it was you know the media was very divisive I think they were trying to find answers for how to make the league better and more appealing uh it didn’t help the NBA that they really lacked a charismatic Superstar maybe for lack of a better term um so the best two players in the NBA for most this period were probably Dr Jay Julius Irving and Kem Abdul Jabar uh neither of which was an incredibly um engaging Personality yeah Dr Jay could be uh creem could be certainly but and then uh you know the Knicks had great players but likewise Bernard King was not the kind of person who would give colorful interviews and so uh I think the NBA really struggled to find that identity that they could rally around that of course in 1980 when magic and Larry come into the league like and then Michael Jordan obviously that that changes but in this period it’s kind of a transition they’re the league and the Knicks are trying to find their way yeah from a from a hip-hop angle I loved the the various antidotes as you profiled the various artists uh from from cool herk whose original name was a derivation of of Wal Clyde Frasier you know the formation of Run DMC in in terms of their early days of playing ball in the park you know those those early days of of depicting how much how important basketball the the role that basketball played in the formation and the rise of hip-hop how was how did you find your research uh when you wrote about that in your book yeah so I started out just kind of thinking all right this happens at the same time but then the more I I got to look and it was like all right they’re playing when when these guys are playing in uh when when the hip-hop DJs or MC’s or whatever you want to call them when they’re playing they’re playing in parks and the other thing going on in Parks is pick up basketball and so you had this kind of combination of there’s basketball there’s there’s rap music there is uh there are people dancing there are B boys and B girls like dancing to this and that’s all in the same space and if it’s too cold and they go inside they go inside to a basketball gym uh to to play their their their shows and so like the they’re always sharing the same space and so I you know I guess I was surprised at first then later not surprised to see that basketball brought a lot of them together and that these are are especially young men but young women as well that loved playing basketball they love they love music and so they kind of grew up hand inand and so the the spaces that they’re using are are really the same for both and so there was a lot of overlap well one of uh one of my guys who you mentioned several times in the book is is the legend the Ryme animal Chuck D he’s he’s uh the the biggest champion of Nick fan TV every night when we do our postgame shows he’s in the chat vibing amongst the people but he’s in there as Chuck D the Knicks fan not not Chuck D the icon and and you know I love his humility in that way but what I I love doing these pieces these histo these historic pieces especially as it relates to the culture because his name is always in that midst in a number of interviews I’ve done and and I’ve I’ve made it a conscious effort that way because I want the younger fans to really understand his impact on the culture I mean and we talk as we talk about the game and the culture and that Confluence Chuck D’s stamp on it was right up there man I mean he was truly a pillar to the culture yep absolutely no and and he was a one of a number of of of you early and and pioneering hip-hop stars that really kind of embraced embraced that connection to basketball and and obviously a lot of it that’s coming out of New York so a lot of them are our Knicks fans and a lot of them are embracing the Knicks and uh then you start to have the Rivalry between Knicks fans and Lakers fans that over you know Hip Hop’s in the mix of that and it’s it’s interesting to me to see that kind of a a a big rivalry from the the 60s and early 70s that continues and then be becomes kind of part of the hip-hop thing as well but no you’re right like some of those some of those early H hip-hop artists were were incredibly important that not only the like the Knicks culture but also that sense of like basketball and playground ball and all that was was really Central to it for sure for sure and you know in the book I I thought what was also interesting was as you start at the NBA in the 79 era really trying to find its identity towards you know a mass audience Hip Hop was kind of doing the same thing in terms of both of these traditionally black art forms trying to Branch out and appeal to a white audience and you spoke about it from your perspective what it meant to you as a kid and what what did you think about you know how both of those mediums and those platforms was ultimately able to Branch out to to White America and to younger white audience to really tap into their fandom yeah and so what what happens of course is that these are these are powerful like local forces obviously basketball’s you know growing in popularity at that time uh but Hip Hop was was one of those things that just seemed um almost counterculture so it seemed like one of those you know again in my household my parents wanted nothing to do with with hip-hop or rap and it’s not that they said I couldn’t listen to it but you know it was more turn that crap off and listen to it in your own bedroom kind of thing yeah which made me like it even more and so I think that it became a a way for um especially again for for white Suburban kids like me at the time to to really kind of you know Embrace that that culture and that that different uh culture that was that was interesting and different and uh and basketball is the same thing like I you know played basketball for years and years and years and the uh just embracing that kind of playground showman style of basketball was something that also comes out from that time period because this is you know an NBA that in the 1970s was accused of being kind of boring uh whereas the American Basketball Association the ABA was exciting and high-flying and so this is a period of transition in the NBA too where it’s like all right we’re going to embrace that that highflying athletic style of play and and that of is going to trickle down to to people that are you know like me that are that aren’t aren’t in New York City and aren’t like part of this underground hip-hop movement once again we’re talking to Adam kble he’s the author of the new book Kings of the garden the New York Knicks and their city will be available on April 15th so make sure you guys go out there and get it it’s a great book I’ve gone through it and it’s a it’s a really fantastic readed to give you that that perspective both as a Knicks fan a basketball fan and you know whe whether you’re you’re currently living in New York City or used to live in New York City or you remember those days it’s it’s a very very great look back on the history of this city and the tumultuous times the tumultuous times for sure and and Adam as you you compile all this research everything’s not going to make the book was there what was you know were there one or two things that you really wanted to get in there but there’s a you know battle between you and the editor to make the final cut yeah my my editors were great um but in every case there’s there’s stuff that had to be cut and so one thing one thing that I really enjoy is a lot of that context like what’s going on at the time what what music is playing um like what are the popular songs and and my editor did say a couple times like yeah we need to you know we need to we need to kind of cut some of that so um I will say that that one thing I was glad my editor cut was so in in an initial draft I had uh I had written it so huby Brown suffered a heart attack uh in the midst of one of the seasons and at the time the the most popular song on the radio was total eclipse of the heart and I was like well I mean that you know Hearts were Hearts were on everybody’s mind in New York City and I was glad that they uh they told me to to maybe cut that yeah to not make that but uh I mean there were there were there was there there weren’t a lot of stories that didn’t make uh didn’t make the final cut but um for sure it would have been the context and like what movies were popular at the time and uh and so we did we did cut a little bit of that but yeah most most the most of the good stuff stayed that’s excellent man and uh how about today’s team have you been tapping in with today’s team what’s been your thoughts yeah no there I mean there’s so much fun to watch and uh when they’re when they’re healthy when they’re healthy yeah yeah but but it got me to think it so so one thing I like you know I don’t like the game of could so and so have played back in the day or could so and so from back in the day play now but man when I watch when I watch Julius Randle I get Spencer Haywood Vibes like they just they had a similar attack style uh at at The Rim um you know Spencer was Spencer was not necessarily ripped to the level of of Julius Randall but but was still a very you know muscular guy um I I’ve been excited to see Jaylen Brunson take a step from where he was at Dallas uh you know I still have still have uh high hopes for precious um that that he can and he see he’s another one that I think would have fit in really well because longdistance shooting wasn’t a big part of the game and so attacking the rim playing playing defense yeah like um yeah uh and you know again to my my video game Roots uh Mitchell Robinson’s one of my favorite centers on NBA 2K so uh so yeah no I the the modern team is uh is exciting it’s great to see excitement back in in nickland and I’m hoping that they they turn it around even Josh Hart man sometimes he gives me like modern day Mason Vibes the the way that he plays you know it’s always a struggle from the outside but he’s as physical as they come he’s always going downhill and attacking and kind of that Relentless motor kind of reminds and and a guy who always is sacrificing he’s he’s guarding big men he’s guarding smaller guys that was kind of Mason as well well a very versatile forward yeah I hadn’t thought about that but you’re right now that’s another good another good connection for sure yeah for sure as you look towards the future with this team we we won’t know what what uh what the Pres might hold they’re very injured right now but hopefully they get it together is there piece out there that that you want to see them go after they went after ogan anobi he’s he’s here and you know they made a a minor trade by the deadline but what do you want to see from this team long term yeah I mean you know I I’d love to see a big a big like superstar in New York like they just they haven’t had that I and again looking back at at my book and stuff they’ve they’ve swung and missed for for a number of years so I mean I don’t know if I don’t know if Giannis that kind of piece is is is the kind of guy and obviously that would Elevate them to a probably to a different level but yeah I mean I I would just love to see someone with that star power in in New York um you know maybe somebody that can that can create can help Brunson a little bit but uh but again I’m I’m a a big fan of the old school like the Knicks need a do you know a ball handling Mark Jackson like point guard so uh yeah no I I I think you know somebody some some big name that can bring a lot more attention back to the big app would be would be good a a absolutely man and and so uh finally as this book comes out on on April 15th you know what what do you want the readers to take away uh from from this book yeah so really two things I want readers to understand that there was a there was a Knicks team that played between uh you know 1973 and 1985 that those guys existed and uh and also that like there’s more to just basketball than what’s going on on the court the the connections that happen between basketball and New York City and the people that are living there and the the music and the culture is all all there and so the the impact that basketball has on the culture and the culture on basketball is is something else I’d like like readers to take away there you go man well excellent job and you know hopefully when you when you release the next book you come back on the show or when the Knicks make the playoffs we love to have you on again man this was an excellent conversation I really enjoyed it uh good luck and uh continued success to you thank you so much CP thank you for having me on indeed

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