Zach Lowe: “He (Jayson Tatum) is not one of the five best players in the NBA, but he is something around 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th… People want him to be better than that, and he is not quite on the level of the top four to five guys.”
by bambam-in-vietnam
![[FULL] NBA TODAY | Kendric Perkins on Wolves EXPOSED Luka & Mavs; Ant Edwards dare message to Kyrie](https://www.lovenba.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/1717075571_maxresdefault-150x150.jpg)
32 Comments
well… yes
not everybody can be Jokic, Luka, Giannis level and that’s okay
He didn’t even play yesterday, usually this kind of post come out after he has a bad game lmao
He’s a great fucking player. Complete package, plays great defense etc. I don’t think its a rip to say he’s not top 5, I think it just speaks to how great you have to be to be considered top 5. Jokic/Embiid/Giannis/Luka etc are just fucking special
Not really worth the effort to split hairs over where he ranks among active players, there’s a lot of great talent playing rn. As a basketball fan, I can enjoy and appreciate these guys in their primes, while also being grateful we have Tatum who’s at worst very good on the Celtics heading to our 2nd Finals in 3 seasons.
We get it.
Why is SGA miles ahead better? You want to say he’s better fine but he’s not leaps and bounds better it’s a coin toss
Who fucking cares. As a C’s fan, there’s no one else I would rather watch lead my team
I mean he’s for sure closer to 5th or 6th than 9th or 10th but we’re all going to die anyways who gives a shit right?
Can’t wait for Tatum to be called a bum if Luka outplays him in the finals, and for Luka to be excused because of injuries if Tatum shows out and Luka doesn’t
Guy who is All-NBA first team is not top 5, got it. Its all just rage-bait, who cares.
Yesterday he made 0 points so it suits
Lol I mean fine I guess but would anyone seriously prefer Joel over the course of an entire season including playoffs for actually winning a title? Do people think Joel can ever string enough games together and then play four rounds together at a high level? Dude has never been past round 2 and has played 433 regular season games in 10!!! Seasons. Even removing the 2 DNP full seasons, we are still talking like 54 games per seasons and zero in the conference finals or finals.
Tatum was drafted 3 years later and has played 80 more regular season games and just about double the playoff games with 5 conference finals appearances and two finals appearances. Tatum is also averaging 24 in those 108 games and his sample is a little messy because it includes 3 rounds his rookie year and another 2 as a sophomore.
I’d rather have Joel for a single game in January or a random few months and he’s most dominant healthy but when is that exactly?
It’s weird how all the same talking points come up on all the major pods. I think I’ve heard everyone else say this same thing in the last week lol
Whether he is or isn’t, Tatum really does get way too much shit said about him.
It’s a perfectly cromulent opinion but “people want him to be better than that” is a silly way to put it. Maybe some people – including All NBA voters – simply disagree with Zach Lowe?
According to the ESPN rankings (not worth much, but easy to pull up), the Mavericks’ top five are #1, #18, #95, #135, and #154. The Celtics are offering up #10, #41, #45, #75, and #93. Two stars plus role players vs. a deeper team that doesn’t light up the marquee. “People want him to be better than that” suggests that people prefer heliocentrism over careful team construction, which I guess the ratings suggests that they do, but still, the ’04 Pistons beating Shaq + Kobe + ring chasers was one of the NBA’s all-time feel-good stories for a reason.
Win a few titles and that narrative changes real quick
Dude has been All NBA 1st team three years in a row and come in 6th, 4th, and 6th in the last three MVP votes. Seems like that would make him at the very least the 6th best player in the league over the last three years?
My thing would be…completely unbiased…what makes SGA better than Tatum all of a sudden…
The guy that is First Team All NBA (5 Players)…3 years in a row…is not top 5…
Same age as SGA > More wins than SGA (loaded roster take doesn’t work when you realize his Big 3 was Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart…
both of whom the media negatively cover(ed) to great extents)…More All NBAs than SGA…More playoff success…better shooting numbers…better rebounding…more PPG in 5 year window…comparable upper-class to elite level defense (with Tatum being able to guard forwards/centers…SGA just got smoked by Derrick Jones Jr a week ago.)
SGA has the advantage in maybe playmaking being a point guard?
If you needed to start a franchise today, what makes SGA the clear cut choice over Tatum is my question…
Just food for thought.
on any given night he can be a top 5 player though, plus his team is stacked so he only needs to be a star, not a superstar
Cool. Is this really worth people’s time to debate endlessly?
If Tatum were suddenly available, do you not think there’d be multiple teams trying to court him?
So much time gets wasted debating who is the best etc. Yawn. If you can only get excited for one or a small handful of players, wow, that is going to make watching basketball pretty boring for you.
I mean what’s there to argue here, the top 4 of Jokic, Doncic, Giannis, and maybe Embiid are just so good, after that it could be anyone.
Let’s not forget he’s a double double machine flirting with triple double lots of time, give him the usage rate of Embiid or Brunson he’s gonna average far more than he is now, but the Celtics aren’t built like those team.
It’s not easy to judge Tatum v Luka/Embiid/etc. Tatum is asked to do less because the Celtics are a juggernaut of a team, but Tatum is pretty incredible at what he does.
He’s a top-tier player.
Tatum has less weaknesses than the players everyone puts above him. Now he’s not at great at any one area as the other players but I think it’s a more nuanced conversation than people admit.
Giannis: shooting and closing
Shai: 3 point shooting
Luka: defense
Jokic: defense
Embiid: health/making it past second round
Tatum can guard 1-4 at a high level and some small 5s and is a highly durable 3 level scorer and a good passer and rebounder.
He gets dinged for having a good supporting cast and being less ball dominant than other players. If tatum played on a worse team he would put up better stats.
Crazy how negative the narrative is about a dude who lost 2 games the entire playoffs, is averaging 26, 10 and 6 with elite defense and despite “underwhelming” efficiency, hes actually had a better TS% than Luka in the playoffs. Tatum somehow gets top 3 player expectations placed onto him… but hes somehow barely a top 10 player lmao. You definitely cant take him over Jokic, Giannis seems clearly above him as well. But after that you can start at least making arguments, especially if you value off ball ability and defense
Who gives af if he’s not top 10. Celtics are winning, team sport. These guys focus too much on that bullshit these playoffs. Same thing with Anthony Edwards
He’s All-NBA 1st team for the 3rd year in a row, headed to his 2nd Finals in 3 years. The only facet of his game that’s been underwhelming this playoffs is his outside shooting – in every other aspect he’s playing at a career best level right now.
Jokic and Giannis are in the top tier right now, then probably Luka, then maaaaybe Embiid but I think that’s all you can say definitively. That puts him right at 5th.
I can see an argument for Shai over him, but imo he just hasn’t done enough in the regular season yet to clearly separate and his postseason resume is still so slight. Would you put current KD or Curry over Tatum right now? Current Kawhi? Current LeBron or AD?
I get where Lowe’s going and I don’t disagree, I also don’t think these endless ranking conversations are that useful. What’s maybe more valuable is what the floor and ceiling on these guys is, and that’s the most important thing for me with Tatum as a Celtics fan. Tatum can be, and regularly is, the best player on the floor. He’s not every night, nor as consistently as say, Luka, but he’s absolutely capable of getting there and hanging around long enough to win many playoff series.
Plus, he doesn’t get enough credit to my eye for his growth picking his spots and expanding and contracting his game to fit the team, the matchup and the moment. The Cs have so much talent all five starters have had to do this to some degree, but it’s hardest for the first option, and despite the periodic wtf shot selection he’s really good about hanging back and stepping up when he senses the need
I think what makes Tatum special is you can build pretty much any team around him. Great offense, defense, size, and speed. I can’t think of a single star he would be a bad fit with
So Tatum is not a tier 1 player, Jaylen is not an all nba player and there are no other all stars on the team BUT the Celtics are a super team? Seems like media and fans alike like to tear the Celtics down when convenient and build them up as a super team to minimize their success.
Tony Parker was in his thirties when he got that last chip over Bron and I remember everyone in the media is saying is Tony Parker a top 5 NBA player? They wouldn’t have even had him in the top 15 if he didn’t show out and win the finals that year.
Point of that is to say that the Media is super reactionary, if the Celtics win this series and look good in the process there’s nothing they can say, Tatum will become the face of the league and a top 5 player.
Tatum side step 3 from the left wing is a top 5 unguardable move tho