Lonzo Ball’s bold comeback claims and Daniel Gafford’s success after leaving Chicago Bulls

Lonzo Ball’s bold comeback claims and Daniel Gafford’s success after leaving Chicago Bulls

[Music] hi everybody welcome into the Bulls Talk podcast brought to you by Toyota I’m Kevin Anderson joined my esteemed colleagues Casey Johnson who covers the Chicago Bulls for NBC Sports Chicago and NBC Sports chicago.com and the wonderful Tony Gil The Man Behind the Scenes here on the digital and podcast end of NBC Sports Chicago guys uh we’ve got a lot to get to we’re going to save for those of you anticipating part two of our how to fix the Bulls podcast how to make the Bulls a championship Contender that’s gonna be coming later this week uh a lot of great comments on our YouTube page uh for those of you who uh watched over the last couple days to part one of the general how to build a championship Contender part two is coming later this week today’s a couple things we want to dive into we start with Lonzo ball um he did on his podcast a few days ago he’s very confident on how his rehab is progressing how his knees progressing he shared a couple things I don’t know for public about the exact surgery that he had and he is confident that he can play opening night now we have no idea how many minutes that is but he he thinks he’s gonna be ready to play basketball uh by mid to late October uh Casey what can you tell us about what you know about the lonza situation what he revealed in his podcast and what the real expectation is is there a real true possibility that we could see Lonzo not just play basketball this season for the Chicago Bulls but be ready by the end of training camp and the uh start of the Season well I mean he said it himself so obviously you have to take his word and his belief in it I I reported late in the season before he started a podcast that there the way I phrase it was there’s growing belief that Lonzo ball will at least attempt to try to play next season so you know I mean this has we’ve said all along is progressing this time without any setbacks now we’ve also said all along until he starts playing five on five with contact that’s the real test so that is not yet happened um not only from what I’m led to believe but also it do sound like on lonzo’s podcast that he has taken that step um but this is exactly why we asked our tourist carnish at at the end of season news conference you know how do you balance the business side of the Lonzo ball equation with the human side because on the one hand you want to be supportive of an employee and so particularly someone that is as well liked and well respected as Lonzo ball and and who has endured as much as Lonzo ball you want to be empathetic and understanding and supportive of that scenario but there’s also a business element to this because if he you know is not able to go you’re have the opportunity to apply for a career- ending injury provision and wipe that $21 million off of your books not only for salary cap purposes but luxury tax purposes and that’s a significant chunk of change and really is amstrong the Bulls a little bit in in recent Seasons so you know our T obviously didn’t answer the question I’ve got his quote in front of me we’re just wait and see his progression the next couple months this was said in mid April so we’re six weeks into a couple months he’s progressing well with no setbacks um that that was our T’s short response to that question in mid April and we’ll just see how this plays out but um you know on a human level you’re obviously rooting for Lonzo and and good to hear his confidence uh now that he’s got the proper diagnosis proper surgery um and you know see where see where this goes Tony what could a possibly healthy Lonzo even if it’s a ramped up Reserve role um to start the year what could that mean for this team that is a good question and they’ve played so many games without them I don’t know uh and I don’t know because he was such a major piece of what they were trying to accomplish um him in a lesser role and obviously it with Kobe kind of overtaking him and would be the the starter in this situation um I think Lonzo is a smart enough player he has definitely a high IQ to fit in any situation that I think he’s put in so if it is a reserve off Off the Bench roll um I think he could do well in in that spot um but in terms of the grand scheme of things in terms of impact on on the Bulls I I don’t I don’t know just just because the last time we saw him it was his team he ran the show everybody thrived off of him so the last time they all played together that was the scenario so when you see the the VIS right you see his body on the Court um there going to be a lot of like just physical reflective things that are happening because you’re like expecting certain movements to happen from him that probably won’t be there anymore he’s going to look like a different player he’s going to feel like a different player when you play with him um but uh I I hope that he can get back like like Casey says but like this is truly going to be a one of one scenario if he’s able to get back which you know leads me to believe like I don’t I like the optimism but I just don’t know if if he’s going to get there if he can play in October it’ll be uh over two and a half years since he will have played in between NBA games which is an incredible amount of time a couple things on my end in regards to like how I view the Lonzo situation you’re right Tony like when he was healthy for those I believe 35 games uh it was his team he was the straw that stirred the drink it was everything hinged and the success was you know a large part because of how he made everything work now this is with a obviously different team than we have now I think from a basketball component I’m I’m excited to see you know number one him be able to play again uh expectations would for me would be fairly low to start obviously you need to go through training camp and preseason and those things but if he can be even a 80% 70% of the player he was he going to make the Bulls a much better team now from a roster standpoint I would like to see Kobe start at the two and Lonzo start at the one in that situation in which Lonzo is fully healthy and ready to go I think that is that’s that’s your true best back court IO coming off the bench of course what does that mean for Zack LaVine they’ve already intended to trade him this off season I I think a a these reports that certainly the expectation that Lonzo is progressing I think makes it even more important that you trade LaVine um to really make sure that Kobe’s not back in a reserve role um with Lonzo when he eventually is healthy and from a pure what KC kind of alluded to from a pure roster cap tax situation if our terce gets into July 1 and the expectation is that Lonzo is progressing even better at that point that he’s doing five and five and that he is going to play this season well then with lonzo’s 21 million on the books you essentially are forced to make some very hard decisions we’ve talked about those before with the Rosen P will LaVine I think the best course of action in that situation is you’ve got to trade LaVine for cap relief um now there’s not a lot of teams that can do that not a lot of teams are going to want to do that uh but you’ve got to see your offers are but they’re going to have some really hard decisions to make this this offseason if you get into that situation in which Lonzo is is healthy looks like he’s ready to go um because then then you roster with a resigning P will resigning D rozan um there there’s a lot of not just cap but massive tax implications happening there with that one um Casey getting back to yeah go ahead please no I just had a quick question like even if he does come back it I mean Brandon Roy technically came back to the NBA does that feel more like the situation than would say like uh who else had a de like Sean Livingston you know where he wasn’t the same player athletically that he was before but he was an a a key contributor to those Warriors runs when he came back so I I guess my question to you guys is it is it if he does come back to the NBA which is the most likely scenario hard to predict I mean it’s you know you don’t you don’t you don’t know his body you don’t know how his body will react to the stress and rigors of an NBA season so you know that that’s an unanswerable question until we see him get out there and like I said he hasn’t even played five on five you know and taken contact um you know an offseason play so uh yeah but Livingston would kind of to me be the ideal I mean you mentioned his IQ before to me Lonzo has that IQ where he can fit in any role Livingston was the same way I mean he went from kind of you know an athletic high-flying guy to role player and embraced it and was impactful in that role so you know Lonzo has that capability but maybe maybe he can surprise us and do more we’ll have to see um but yeah that’s those are good those are good comps to bring up the one thing that gives me a little bit of Hope and I’m encouraged by is that lonzo’s game isn’t necessarily based on athleticism explosiveness um this isn’t like the Derrik Rose going through a couple of ACL injuries um lonzo’s game is is predicated upon his passing ability his shooting his defensive ability and which you know certainly part of that is athleticism but also just high IQ so I’m hopeful in your question Tony that it’s it’s more the Shawn Livingston situation now is he going to be limited to 20 24 minutes a night at his Peak no idea um so those are certainly questions that the medical staff Lonzo himself will have to answer as we get through this summer and into training camp and Beyond about what it’s really going to look like and how much he can feel like he can contribute um Casey correct me if I’m wrong but is this the first time that we’ve heard Lonzo detail the exact surgery that he got with not only the cartilage transplant but the actual like miniscus transplant as well yeah I never heard the miniscus transplant we had basically written and reported and and he had said talked about how it was bone on bone so that to me implies no meniscus but I didn’t know he had one put in um but you know he he had talked about um bone on bone before I believe when we were in Paris um it all kind of runs together and I’m not trying to be unsympathetic to it’s just been there’s so much so many surgeries so much detail um but um you know I that is the first time I’ve heard of detailed where he had a miniscus put in and um I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that before I mean cartilage transplants rare enough meniscus um transplant kind of adds a whole other layer to it so I mean we’ve laid out how um you know unprecedented how significant of an achievement this would be and if he can pull it off you know amazing perseverance for sure yeah it it’s um you know it’s really something miraculous that he’s trying to come back from almost unprecedented in that sense so you know good for him one one more thing I want to mention and I know we’ve covered this ground before but you know you you mention when when you said star star straw that stirs a drink it just made me want to say this again like one more time I mean not to go down memory lane too much but in that 2122 season the amazing thing about him was how impactful he was at both ends obviously because he in Cru so form such a potent tandem in in on ball defense uh defensively but then offensively remember in you know right when the the Rosen acquisition happened and everyone was questioning the fit with Zack LaVine and then in those first the first half of that season I remember writing at one point like oh all those questions and all those naysayers are looking foolish now because Lonzo made it work because those questions are back now like can these guys fit together but Lonzo just something about him not only his ability to space the flooor to create room for Demar to operate in the mid-range and he and Zach were such potent three-point um weapons but then just he had an innate ability to kind of just hit get the ball hopping and moving the hit ahead passes and transition even in half court he had a way to just kind of make everything around him as a connecting piece work better and um I know I know this is old ground and I know this is uh you know waxing poetic about it time long ago but man that was fun basketball to watch for that first half of that 2122 season you know what casy to they never could replace it right like no no matter what they did internal external um by the time we got to like you know year two we’re like okay they try other options to try and make this group work but the only time that it worked was with the style of Lonzo ball and I get it he’s such a unique talent and unique player but I thought going into last season that look whoever starting Javon Carter Kobe white IO whatever at the point guard they need to replicate or at least try it is the conversation I think I asked the question actually to Lonzo about how is he is there conversations between him and Kobe or him and javar uh Javon um trying to replicate what he did uh on the basketball court and he said you know he was in conversation and stuff like that but I thought it was critical that if they wanted to continue with continuity with this group to see it at its peak it needed to be replicated what he did and I don’t think they ever could do that or find that Kobe found his own way to kind of do his thing which we all saw um and he greatly improved but in order to make that group work to their original Vision work they needed to find a guy that can do at least a piece of what Lonzo did and they just never did that’s well said because I mean you know it’s it’s it’s uh irrevocable or I should say uh uh what’s I having a blank on the word but it’s um indisputable that’s the word it’s indisputable that Kobe took a huge jump this season and yet they still didn’t exit the playing tournament and that’s not a knock against Kobe I’m not like picking on Kobe but to your point like Kobe had a great season and yet you know it still wasn’t enough and uh obviously Zach missed this season so you can’t really look at the Zach dear fit um but we’ve seen enough of it to know that you’re right it has not worked without Lonzo and it’s just amazing that one player you know of that level can have that much impact but he did and really speaks to how unique of a player he is it’s like a dish where you take out one ingredient and the dish no longer works at all right like he he’s the pizza sauce right you take him out it’s not pizza anymore um it’s like when I make cereal it’s like it’s like when I make cereal and forget to put in the milk because I’m not a cook my wife does all the cooking so is that the extent of your what’s what’s the extent of your cooking ability what’s the most complicated I could surprise you every once a while but I’m more the cleaner I’m the cleaner the wife’s the cooker so everybody needs the cleaner everybody needs somebody to take care clean up the mess uh I’m gonna ask a loaded question now based on Lonzo let’s say we get to the end of June July July 1 really was the most important date let’s say we get to July 1 and things are looking really good like he’s playing five on five he’s confident the Bull’s medical staff lonzo’s doctors are confident he’s G to play again is there a chance based on what happened those first 35 games with Lonzo f d roen and LaVine that we get this core back next season no well I mean the core could be come back next season but it won’t be for lack of trying they will not be I can I can tell you very strongly from my feel of the team and covering the team that that they will not be seduced into thinking that a healthy Lonzo or Lonzo projecting to play next season will will change his score because you can’t expect Lonzo there’s and Billy has Billy has said this on the record like you cannot put those kind of expectations on Lonzo if he a is even able to come back the other thing I would say is that you know July 1st is only six weeks away and um five weeks away really and and um Bing has made it pretty clear that if Lonzo plays five on five the contact it’s going to come later in the summer so they’re that’s why we asked our tourists that question I don’t think they’re going to have the answer on July 1 and look some hard decisions may have to be made I mean they might have to um you know try to expedite the process in terms of a medical thing I mean I don’t know how they’re going to play this that’s why we asked a question and our tourist obviously didn’t shed any light on it but it’s going to be it’s going to be a challenging needle to thread for sure okay I’m going to list some names here and I want you to tell me what these individuals all have in common you ready yeah uh lry marinen Daniel Gafford campign Spencer didw stru Derek Jones Jr Justin H Chris Dunn Bobby poris what what are all those names specific have in common besides the obvious they played for the Bulls KC teacher teacher I know the answer although I would push back on a couple of those they all they all went on from their bulls careers to distinguish themselves elsewhere but I I would probably push back I I like your overall uh sentiment and Vibe but I I I would probably have a minor push back on a couple I think Derek Jones Jr obviously is playing at a higher level now but kind of played his role perfectly here um you know and what was the other one that uh um oh CR uh no not John who’s no no who’s the other one said before right around the oh Justin Justin holiday played very well here too I mean in some lean years it’s just he’s hitting those shots for defending NBA champions to their higher profile but I mean he was a three and D guy on a you know solid level not Star level here so I would push back on on those two but everything else you’re you’re spot on you are spot on so we’re gonna we’re gonna dive into specifically Daniel Gafford and why um he was not able to thrive here in his own words but to me that list Tony is this is all within the last 10 years of players who in my opinion were underutilized in Chicago either because of playing time or system or for whatever reason and have thrived since leaving the Bulls that’s a fairly long list in the last 10 years and on the flip side how many players can any of us including everybody listening name who were in Reverse underutilized other teams and only thrived once they came to the Bulls I don’t know if there’s a single one um you know certain we’re not talking about draft picks we’re talking about actual um NBA players who were either picked by the teams that came here afterwards drumond I mean Zack lavine’s a two-time Allstar I mean he didn’t come anywhere close to those Heights in Minnesota now the part of that is just natural development because he came in the league so young but I would put Zack LaVine in that category for sure um yeah all right we’ll qualify that we’ll say Zach even though he was on that projection that’s the reason they traded for him that’s a that’s a good point KC um but Tony is is this a false narrative is this something were being a little too harsh on the team and the the staff in the last 10 years and both front offices about players who are we’re seeing thrive in other areas certainly Markin and’s at the top of that list but honestly also Max stru Gafford um they’re guys who just weren able to really find their way here Den witty yes absolutely are we being too harsh on the team by Framing it that way um you know of course we we’re always going to be too harsh when you know we make the the oneon-one comparison like ah they soon as they left here now look at them you know we always going to do that I don’t think that’s ever going to go away uh but like Cas you said that the cinamon is clear and the evidence is there uh for some reason now I think it’s multiple of reasons um over the last few years players have gone elsewhere uh and performed better than they here um now you can tie that to coaching um I think also like I you got to put a lot of it on the player right like if you’re an NBA player and you’re a contributing NBA player it will show uh no matter where you are in my opinion um but I know that’s not just blankly the the straight answer but there’s also coaching involved there’s also um scouting and Player Development on on the side of things so I think we we the many reasons that we’ve all discussed here specifically on this podcast of the reasons why the Bulls aren’t where they need to be I think can be the same can be applied to those players where it’s multi-level issue where it’s management it’s coaching and it’s also the individual players uh fault that why they didn’t Thrive here um Lori marketing specifically right at the top of the list um a lot of effort and a lot of opportunity was given to lry uh it just didn’t work here for whatever the case may be um did they did he feel that they he wasn’t comfortable here that he didn’t get put in the right position probably and he probably wasn’t uh I mean Jim boand was a coach for you know a large part of it like no disrespect but hey you know the results are what the results are so I think that it makes it again a all of these conversations are Nuance conversations but if I just had to say are we being too hard on this I I would say no just because there’s multiple players um that have this and you got to be able to change that narrative like this new this regime now has to change that narrative uh look Patrick Williams everybody’s eye in that right like the reason why you want to keep him is because of that possibility that he could go somewhere else and Thrive and then that’s another player added to the list so they got to change that narrative they got to figure out when they eye a talent when they have a talent what does this Talent do well what do we want him to do okay if he can’t do that what does this Talent do well to contribute to this team and then they have to do that with that player to make them more comfortable so um that’s kind of my thoughts on it and Markin had to go to a third team to thrive right it’s it’s not like he went straight from the Bulls to Utah and they had to make a stop in Cleveland he wasn’t utilized as much there uh KC let’s talk about Daniel bafford specifically uh he’s on the verge of playing the NBA Finals along with Derrick Jones Jr he he’s been a huge part especially with Derek Lively being hurt um he was the interview with Charles and Kenny and Shaq uh on the TNT set after the game three win it wasn’t Luca it wasn’t Kyrie with their 33 it was Daniel Gafford and big part is because how he was able to step up on both ends of the floor um it’s clear that he has thrived not in Washington again like Lori and his third team but he has absolutely thrived in Dallas um he’s surrounded by great players um he’s surrounded by generational two generational players um who are actually elevating his game but I’m G ask you two questions um could Gafford the version of Gafford we see in Dallas could that have happened in Chicago um and why didn’t it at the time and secondly what is it you’re seeing on a gaff’s game right now in Dallas specifically in these playoffs specifically um out out of him just in general that he is making a big leap in his development yeah so I mean so so many things I mean obviously that sequence he had to close game three three was just spectacular with that block at one end and that alleyoop at the other and the an one I mean that athleticism is something that you know just jumps off the screen um but you know we’re BR it to the Bulls in a second but specifically to Gafford I mean the bottom line is Daniel Gafford is a role player okay and what he is he what what this conversation should be about is so much of the NBA is about opportunity and fit he is in the perfect role and to me could have Daniel Gafford have been a very a good player here absolutely I mean he’s athletic he’s he runs the floor well he jumps he blocks shots looking at his bull stats I mean not horrible um but he is in the perfect role and to me his game screams a need for a true point guard and he’s got you know an elite one in Kyrie and really an elite one if you want to you can throw l in that you’ve got two elite point guards I mean no offense to Tomas sansky but like Daniel gafford’s point guard was Tomas sansky okay it’s like it’s not the same okay so and to gafford’s credit when he came in here in March he was on that Bender where he was rivaling uh will Chamberlain’s NBA record um of uh let’s see 35 yeah 35 straight um field goals was the NBA record from 1967 Gaff went nine for n in a blowout victory over the Bulls in March at the United Center that ran his street to 28 straight I believe it continued for one and a half more games I don’t have it in front of me but we talked to Gafford afterward and he out said like he called himself lazy in his time in Chicago I mean he said like um you know he I fell out here here’s quotes I kind of fell out of love with the game I kind of had to reevaluate myself when I got traded to Washington I took a step back and figured out how to bring myself back into loving the game it was a lot uh mentally here for me in Chicago I wanted to be better than I was I would say I was being lazy for sure I had to take a step into the responsibility of being a better player on and off the court taking care of my body and my mental so I mean I think if D Daniel Gafford had stayed here he would have been a good player and definitely better than what he showed in his limited one and a half Seasons here but I don’t think he’d be doing what he’s doing now I mean he is in the perfect situation and you mentioned Lowry taking the third team and I I would say he actually had a pretty solid season his one season in Cleveland but it was still of the role player status but you mentioned L need a third team to kind of get to that star level again it speaks to oper opportunity and fit um I’m not totally absolving the Bulls because I will hit the Bulls on this that lry marinin trade is an absolute disaster because you not only trade away lry marinin you get Derek Jones Jr and a loty protected first round pick Derek Jones Jr is now opted out and is starting almost about to start in the NBA finals for Dallas so you’ve lost lry marinin as an All-Star to Utah Derrick Jones Jr is about to start in the NBA finalist at and that pick is probably going to be a second round pick at the end of the day although we have to see how that plays out so I I was not offended of that lry Markin and trade from the jump and I would say history has played out well and it’s one one that I get right there uh but the overall point here is that NBA is so much about opportunity and fit um it’s easy to look at what Daniel gafford’s doing and say oh he’d be doing that here I don’t think he’d have the same impact I think he would have had a very you know I think he would grown as a player here but I don’t I think he is in the perfect situation and kudos to Nico Harrison and his staff in Dallas for making those deadline trades to not only ad Daniel Gafford but PJ Washington because man did those two guys totally transform that Dallas Mavericks team K Casey is there something to it though that it’s never the Reversed like I know we can mention all the all and we have all the details and nuances of players going elsewhere but it why doesn’t it happen here on a more consistent basis um on you know just why players don’t just Thrive and live their best lives outside of right Zack LaVine um and then I I thought Andre Drummond performed pretty better considering the the his past few seasons before the Bulls um but yeah why isn’t never the reverse well I mean I would I would probably say I mean there have been developing success stories here I mean we talked about I and Kobe on this podcast earlier you know they’ve grown in their time here you could argue that Demar de R Roan has been more impactful and a better version of himself in his time here than his three years in San Antonio and I’m not putting that on Player Development I’m talking about that’s opportunity and Fit I mean Mar’s been a Hall of Fame player for a long time so Zach was the only one that came to my mind just off the top of my head I’d have to probably look at it some more I do think some players you know have thrived here obviously um but yeah I mean this is good offseason fodder because former Bulls are making impacts for NBA Finals bound teams while we’re sitting here taping a podcast about Lonzo balls knee surgery I mean the Bulls have been idle for a long time so um but I I do think there are some development success stories are just not on as loud of a stage as what we’re seeing from from Daniel gaffer don’t forget Luke L cornette yes is his NBA Finals battle look at that Tony Synergy there at the same time look at that Luke cth is also NBA Finals bound that’s funny um I I think it has to do partly with the Bulls roster building and and what they’ve tried to accomplish in the last four years here there there really hasn’t been too much of an opportunity for role players and this is this is legitimately what we’re talking about here we’re talking about mostly role players with the exception market and being All-Star um having success there just hasn’t been that opportunity to develop um you know I would oo say that specific to Max stru right like he has thrived in Miami and now Cleveland but his situation KC had more to do with timing of his injury uh and the roster at the on the Bulls at the time than anything else is that how would you kind of P perceive the max stru situation and why he didn’t Thrive here yeah I mean timing the injuries right on it because you had him tearing ACL as a managerial change uh was was happening a regime change I mean I actually believe I don’t know this to be 100% true but my sens is that if gar and John were still were not replaced that they would have let him rehabilitate the injury and and hold on to him they really believed in him that’s why they sign proactively sign him to a two-way um but you know that’s just hyp that’s just water under the bridge because yeah he torn ACL when a when a when a new management I mean when he was waved I don’t think any really but he really bad at an i they’re like okay new management guys got a torn ACL yeah of course they’re gonna sign their own two-way guys um but man credit to Max stru for you know work putting the work in to do what he’s done and and sign that deal that he’s signed in Cleveland he’s turned into a very Bonafide NBA player you know who would also be a perfect point guard for Daniel Gafford Lonzo ball Lonzo ball and Daniel Gafford would be great together um Tony when you look at yeah please this is like a therapy session for Tony all a because I know I I know this this and I’m glad you brought it this this topic up uh because I think fans are saying and are discussing this um amongst themselves and on social media um but I think we’re kind of going not really around it I think we’ve mentioned it but it’s just the environment right like the Bulls aren’t the heat right like they can flip these guys and and turn them out and turn them into uh contributing they’re just not that um and I don’t nobody like hardly anybody is right like that’s why Miami is what they’re doing right um but to be candid if we’re making a generalization you know about what’s going on here it either due to regime change or whatever the case may be the the Bulls franchise hasn’t been the environment for that um and I don’t I don’t know if that’s an emphasis of trying to pick out with their Pro scouting pick out guys free agency like hey we think we can handle him a lot better here and and be a better contributor I don’t know if that’s an emphasis of the organization but it just hasn’t they they haven’t done that and I I think that’s the just the honest truth that they just don’t do that very well well I mean I would say that that I think that that speaks more of the collective team failure uh because if you if you want to get down in the weeds and pars it down the individual success I mean Demar de R rozan has two All-Star appearances and all NBA appearances since the regime took over Zack LaVine has one of his two All-Star appearances since the regime took over Alex Caruso has two all defensive team appearances since the regime took over Alex Caruso won the NBA’s hustle award Kobe white was a finalist for most improved player under this regime I mean individually and this is what they’ve spoken to I mean our said this in mid April individually we’ve had a lot of success collectively it has not worked Miami’s gone to two NBA Finals since Jimmy Butler went down there so that that’s what I think bulls and I’m not saying they’re wrong and that’s what Bulls hands are focused on you’re right in the sense that the culture has produced One playoff series and one playoff Victory uh since the regime took over but individually I think sometimes we kind of lose sight of the fact that you know they’ve had a lot of guys do some nice things in the last three three and a half years it’s just bogged down rightfully so by the fact that they’ve not made the playoffs in two straight years in a watered down conference I mean it’s unbelievable that they have failed to make the playoffs two straight years with all the talent and the individual success they’ve had because they’ve had a lot of guys have really good years but it just is not translating to victories and nobody embodies the feeling of the Island of Misfit Toys more than Miami they take on other players who are cast off second round picks undrafted guys and just turn them into sometimes stars but incredible role players I think for me it come comes down to the Bulls they don’t have the patience for that like when it comes to their roster building and guys they sign or trade for they are signing and trading for guys who are ready NBA highlevel players because they don’t have the patience they want to be competitive right I think regime because the all you heard big KN John was they fell in love with their own players you know so isn’t that the huge irony that that the one of the big knocks of this you know this team in the last 10 years is even H last 20 years is they hold onto their players too long even kyc as you said last uh week in our podcast that they hold on to players so long that their value then is depreciated but the other side of that is that at least in this regime in the last five years that they haven’t developed as many guys from the outside but I think to Casey’s point they have developed guys certainly homegrown guys like IO and Kobe under this coaching staff in this regime we just haven’t had that marinin stru gaffer DJJ player come in who is not utilize somewhere else come in and then Thrive here um so it’s an interesting topic certainly curious what everybody else thinks uh in on YouTube and on the Bulls fandom about you know is this narrative inacurate one are we portraying this uh you know fairly to this team in this front office um let’s move on since we were talking about the uh NBA Finals certainly we’ve got one half of the uh uh finals officially done uh Boston by the way mini manyi rant here why do we have to wait till June 6th for the NBA Finals to start like like we’re on the ver we’ve got one sweep we’re on the verge of another sweep certainly that series is extremely unlikely to go seven games um we’re going to be sitting a week with Al basketball with two teams it’s good for rest like hey it’s great for players need the help it’s gonna be great for Derek Lively it’s gonna be great for porzingis other guys who are like on the verge of being fully healthy you know that week of rest is good good for them but it’s not great for the fans we got to wait till June 6 to see these these teams play in the NBA Finals um but let’s start with the the team as already officially in that’s the Boston Celtics Tony um Boston rolled over the Pacers you know certainly there were a lot of close games in that series including the uh Clincher last night in game four uh but without a fully healthy roster the Pacers really had not much of a chance and Boston um tends to play down to their OPP sometimes and I know a lot of Celtics fans were concerned about that even during this series but ultimately Boston was the best team in the NBA during the regular season they’ve been the best team in the NBA during the postseason um you know what have you seen from the Celtics over these these first three playoff series from them I’ve been trying not to let you know because we’ve been watching Tatam and brown in playoff games for so long that I don’t want to understate what they’ve done this year what they’ve accomplished this year um I don’t want to be like well it’s about time like I don’t want to do that because they they figured something out it seems like they figur something out we’ll see what happens in the finals because you know that’s the standard that they’re being held at now uh but this was one of the more amazing walks to an NBA Finals like I think I saw a tweet somebody ranked uh like the the playoff runs uh and how I don’t know I don’t think easy is the word but um they can’t control who they play Fortunate Good Fortune right fortunate runs you had like the the Warriors you know I think they said 2017 96 Bulls the 01 Lakers and then maybe this Celtics team um and and they’ve just been dominant they they’ve been dominant defensively they’ve doing uh great job and offensively um they they’ve figured it out like together Brown and Tatum um despite all the tape that people have on them right about their weaknesses and their flaws uh and people saying oh is is their coach good enough to to do it but they figured it out they figured it out the te the team Dynamic looks a lot better than it had been was that contributed to their previous point guard I don’t know but look they’re they’re in another finals they have and it seems like it’s theirs to lose right they’re the most experienced group left uh in terms of collective about winning or or deep playoff run it’s their Championship if they want to take it uh and I I think it’s time right like Tatum’s been wanting to be in these conversations he’s been all NBA first team he’s been listed as one of the better top five players in the NBA it’s time for him to prove it now he didn’t win the Eastern conf Eastern Conference Finals player uh award that went to Jaylen brown but I think this this is their time to finally staple this this rebuild all all the stuff that Boston was building up to right all those trades that Danny a made everything is is culminating into this moment for them and uh I’ve been enjoying watching them play they play a great brand of basketball I like watching it so it’s been fun watching them and they’re run I would say two three quick things I mean uh pushing back on this narrative it’s been an easy Road as Bulldog said you can’t control who you play I mean it’s not their fault that these other teams had injuries you play the competition in front of you yes they’ve had some breaks but who’s to say they wouldn’t have steamrolled these opponents regardless um I think the fact that Jaylen Brown was MVP is significant because it speaks to those guys kind of figuring it out and not always being Tatum and I know the knock him is still he needs to be better in the clutch but so maybe you could say brown winning is not as good but I think it’s significant that that they have that kind of star power depth and then the biggest thing to me by far is Drew holiday seems to be involved in every big play in crunch time and you know one of the beyond the fact of getting Dame um one of the things you heard about his trade from Milwaukee is that he had not played as well in the playoff runs of late he’d been kind of tailing off in playoff C so for him to be in the middle of all these significant plays I think is significant he’s playing at an extremely high level um we’re assuming Dallas closes it out you know maybe by the time you listen to this even I think it’ll be a great finals and I got I will say I got the Dallas uh I mean I got the Boston Indie prediction right I missed on Minnesota Dallas I had Minnesota winning that series not looking good for your truly but I got one out of two so uh for the Celtics they played Miami without Jimmy Butler they played a Cavs team that obviously had Donovan Mitchell heavily banged up for most of that series and a Pacers team in which halberton obviously got banged up towards the end of that series but they also have played without porzingis this entire playoff run and this is not like the eighth guy in the rotation he’s a major contributor to what they do uh but you can’t control um who your opponent is I mean there’s a reason they were the one seed so you’re going to get a eight seed team that was obviously not going to have a a great season regardless of Jimmy Butler healthy or not they’ve done everything right uh they have been the best team in the NBA they’re a great offensive team they’re a great defensive team they are uh extremely well balanced in that if you have one or two or three guys with an off shooting night someone else is generally going to step up and fill that role uh Jaylen Brown is played incredible basketball um this playoffs and this is this is uh this may be Boston’s year well certainly once we probably our next podcast officially talk NBA Finals a little bit once uh Dallas closes it out but um Boston is is doing everything everything right um so they are going to be a very tough team to beat uh in the finals um last thoughts guys uh casy anything that you’re working on on on the website I know from a bulls point of view this is kind of a a kind of dead time of the year but anything that our viewers should be looking for from you over the next few days we’re going to uh steal a podcast idea now I’m joking and and I’m doing a mailbag this week H yes I love the mail it’s been a while since I’ve done one in print and it seems like it’s time because there’s not much going on so uh look for uh look for the submission for questions uh shortly and it should be fun what is the best way you want people to submit questions uh sending to your email or tagging you on Twitter with the questions I do not read the mentions on Twitter so it’ll be in the email address which will be on Twitter and then I will say check make sure to respond to the email addresses I post on Twitter because I will not be checking Twitter uh I spent as little time on Twitter as possible in the off season uh I spend way too much time on it during the season so I try to offset that with my offseason routine rule number reaction to your D Ro in take you you you let me know about some of them Tony so that’s all I need you know there there’s a there’s a guiding principle of life you will need you you will know what you need to know when it’s time to know it that’s a great approach don’t which is also don’t read your mentions this is also what that means don’t don’t read your mentions um thank you everybody for listening for watching uh you know certainly we love talking Bulls uh all the time uh for Casey Johnson check out his work at NBC Sports chicago.com and of course on Twitter SLX kcj hoop Tony Gil The Man Behind the Scenes doing all the podcasts here NBC Sports Chicago uh not just Bulls talk but bears and white socks Cubs uh and Blackhawks as well so thank you everybody thank you for listening thank you for watching please leave a comment Please Subscribe uh let us know what you think about any topics we should talk about in the next podcast and again our big one how to fix the Bulls podcast maybe three hours long it’ll be coming up part to later this week uh thank you everybody have a great week and go balls all right now that’s over I want to tell you the three keys to being a real Chicago sports fan it takes guts sacrifice and downloading the NBC Sports Chicago app when there’s highlights you can pounce on them when there’s exclusive insights you listen and take notes and you won’t get blindsided with the push alerts so download it

Tune into the Bulls Talk Podcast with K.C. Johnson, Kevin Anderson, and Tony Gill as they dive into the latest updates and bold predictions surrounding Lonzo Ball’s potential return for the 2024 season (1:00). Hear K.C. Johnson’s inside scoop on Lonzo’s progress (1:47) and Kevin Anderson’s vision for a Lonzo Ball-Coby White backcourt (6:50). They debate whether Ball’s future resembles Brandon Roy or Shaun Livingston (9:00) and discuss the impact his surgeries have had on his career (11:00). Later, they explore players who thrived after their time with Bulls, including Daniel Gafford’s resurgence with the Mavericks (24:30). The trio wraps up the podcast with a heated NBA Playoffs discussion, where they analyze the Boston Celtics’ Finals run and the Mavericks’ playoff push (38:29).

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