Why does everyone hate Rudy Gobert? NBA Playoffs & more w/ Katie Heindl

Why does everyone hate Rudy Gobert? NBA Playoffs & more w/ Katie Heindl

[Music] hello and welcome to the buckets and tea NBA show I’m your host Katherine niker thanks so much for tuning in to this week’s episode joining me pod favorite you know her you love her it’s Katie hindle how you doing Katy I’m good how are you I’m good I am good uh how have you been enjoying these uh NBA playoffs so far actually before you start I I I I forgot my water and then I immediately started to feel parched the second we started we’re not even a full minute in get it love that for us okay go ahead where’s your water can you reach it no I can’t reach it I’d have to physically get up I mean I will say a little behind the curtain we’ve been gabing for 20 minutes before we started recording which is probably why you’re ared yeah thank you thank you for that yes I won’t drink I I won’t drink my water in solidarity oh my God that’s real friendship that is real friendship um but I’ve been enjoying the playoffs quite a bit I forget did we talk at the beginning of the playoffs I don’t I think I think we were like end of the season you you were on yeah okay so yeah I think since then like I’ve been honestly surprised at how much I’ve enjoyed watching the playoffs um it’s really different when you don’t have a rooting interest and aren’t stressed out by games and you can just granted like I did get stressed out in some of those like Nick Sixers games and then Nick Pacers for sure um what in solidarity with who I I kept changing like game to game sometimes like half to half i’ be like no this team wants it more now no this team wants it more um just like based on Antics or like what somebody was kind of getting up to so I think that’s been a very fun exercise for me though I’m not really it’s funny because it’s like this is one of the I think the the playoff run and recent memory that I’ve enjoyed the most outside of when raptors have been in it um but now it’s like ground to a halt for me the prospect of a Celtics Mavs finals is like I don’t like it I don’t care I don’t really care about it so I guess I’m glad that I got my joy and excitement in early because I don’t know that I’m I’ll probably watch the finals but it will be just with like I don’t like I I don’t like either of those teams yeah I mean fair I feel like as a as Raptor fans there’s probably a few of us that are excited for Dallas and maybe even less excited for Boston like I don’t know any Toronto based uh Boston Celtics fans if you are one let us know shout you know shout it out uh and then run and hide from all the other haters but um yeah I mean I feel like uh this playoffs I I’ve said it before but it’s got that real NCAA kind of unpredictable energy to it which I think is exciting as a fan but I think a lot of these playoff series haven’t been as fun to watch because of all the injuries and we’ll get into that in a later topic um but yeah like Boston being in the finals as easy as they got there is not a true reflection of well maybe it is I just feel like I don’t know if it’s a true reflection of their greatness or not I guess time will tell um but what I want to ask you about is you know there’s a lot of Minnesota Timberwolves fans out there a lot of new Timberwolves fans I would say um who are still rooting for this team even though as of this recording they are down 3-1 uh do you think they could achieve the impossible and actually push this to a game seven possibly win this series or do you think Dallas is gonna close us out the one thing I will say about the Celtics is I almost feel like they were running it’s like they were running in a parallel universe playoffs and I didn’t watch like I love the Cavs and like like I I can’t even remember who they played in the first round Miami M oh well I love Miami but Jimmy was out but like I feel like they this the Celtics and that any series they were in was like over here and in my mind the East the rest of the Eastern Conference playoffs was like over here and that was the one I enjoyed watching um and now I have to pay attention to Celtics again so uh but on the note of the Wolves I don’t think they can do it I mean I’m always like why not sure like any team can be the eventually there will be a team that makes it back from that deficit like it it’s just going to happen in the history of the NBA but it could be this year it could also be like 20 years from now who knows so I think yeah there’s always a chance I don’t think it’s going to happen it took them so much to Muster that win you know yeah and I think some of it is a big piece of it I think is actually mental and realizing like oh right like we can beat the Mavs but they seem to be fluctuating in and out of that mindset um and Dallas I think has that thing where they’ve just gotten better through the postseason you know in every series they’ve like kind of fine-tune things a little bit more and they have the thing they need where you know it’s one guy’s night you know night after night um The Wolves I think had that early on like Nas Reed is also obviously like a Phenom now yeah I respect people getting nazri tattoos um left and right I haven’t seen that people been getting naasri tattoos yeah there’s like a a tatour in Minnesota who’s been offering people I think I don’t know if it’s like a discount or whatever but he’s just doing like just the name Naas Reed on people and like hundreds of people by now I think have gotten tattoos nasre tattoos wow which I’m four I love like little bit like bits like that you know um but no man it just seems like it’s going to take I think they can maybe win another one and then I guess there’s a question well if they get one can they get two and then can they get more but it’s it seems like a very highill to climb you know well yeah and uh you know I agree I mean I think like Dallas is obviously it seems like they’re getting better game by game since like the allstar break uh up till now and they just they keep impressing me and I think on the flip side with Minnesota I mean Carl Anthony towns was struggling quite a bit and then he finally finds his shot again and then they actually win that game so I guess like if he can continue that Trend and then not foul out then I do think they could get another game and you know it’s so funny I feel like I’ve been wrong about this playoffs every week on this podcast I’ve just been wrong about everything like like last week I was like man there’s something about Minnesota they feel destined you know and then they just go on to lose over and over and over again and it’s like the second I get behind that team they’re done so maybe Boston will end up winning because they’re the only team I won’t believe in throughout the entire thing um yeah as if I have any kind of power but like it it’s just been so unpredictable and so crazy but I I feel like Minnesota could get another game it could become a six-game series um I don’t know if it will go to seven I don’t know if they’ll win I think Dallas if they lose in Minnesota they’ll figure out a way to close it at home in in six I think that’s that’s what my instinct is telling me that feels right you know like the wolves have the momentum now they could definitely catch another one but yeah I think that would get quashed pretty quick I mean I’m with you I feel like I’ve made some I mean I don’t know that I made them on a podcast but I definitely made some wild predictions in my mind of like I thought like the Knicks were going to go like get make it to the I think my very first this was definitely just like I was asked to contribute to like a playoff Roundup thing and it was like give us your wildest prediction and I was like Cavs wolves finals which now obviously I’m like wow you know like you might as well have said I don’t know the Hornets or something um like at the beginning of the season but like yeah like aside from that kind of very glaring oversight I think every round has been a little bit surprising I did not think the Wolves were GNA beat the Nuggets I didn’t think the Wes were going to beat the Nuggets I even thought Phoenix would be better than they were no I don’t believe in that in that team I know well I didn’t necessarily believe in them winning but I did think I didn’t think they were gonna get swept yeah you’re just like you guys are too technically good uh on’ seen to be this yeah like we’ve seen Durant and Booker alone score over 70 points like you don’t think they’re gonna get swept you know but anyway that’s po Frank fog man yeah the ultimate Fall Guy fault I know I know Frank Fall Guy Vogal uh I haven’t seen that movie The Fall Guy neither have I yeah all right so I don’t know if that’s a direct reference to the movie or not I have no idea um another thing I wanted to ask you about this series and I thought this would be a fun question especially with you to sort of dive into because you’re I feel like you’re really good at like you know emotional deep Dives this is what you do you’re Miss basketball f ings I want to explore why does everyone hate Rudy gobear this is an investigation that I feel you Katie hindle are up to the task for because it’s not just fans it’s not just media it’s players as well and it’s not even just Draymond Green you know what I mean like who’s just been trolling him on that TNT broadcast like nonstop but uh you know everyone seems to hate this guy and I’m like what did he do so I sent you this article with a few uh things it’s like Tim Tim mcmah y from T from ESPN uh kind of theorized a few things uh I didn’t even remember this fun fact but in 2019 he cried in front of the media over being left out of the allstar game and he thinks that’s where the hate for him started now first of all that’s pretty funny like to cry over like it’s pretty funny to cry in front of the media over it but to me that’s like you laugh about it in the moment and you move on like to hold on to that Grudge for five years is really intense um of course there was the covid situation with him putting his hands on the microphones and then he had covid and everyone was really mad about that at the time rightfully so but I think Looking Back Now it’s pretty easy to say that like the NBA shutting down was very inevitable and you know it is what it is so Katie why does everyone hate Rudy goar it’s funny because I’ve written about this before um I wrote like a big thing for basketball feelings about it once cuz I had the same question and was like I don’t like I can understand it in the examples that you gave like some of those are the examples I brought up as well the co one now it’s just like and in the article that you sent like Tim McMahon says the same thing I did just like just the worst possible timing imaginable now kind of funny frankly and like the way that he sort of frames the joke of just like that sort of a sense of humor like he’s trying to say like yeah like I’m not scared of you guys you know I’m I’m like I don’t know that it was like that hum that’s a little bit of like retrospect you know of being like I’m I’m I’m you know how like is what am I trying to say everyone got so freaked out obviously in Co and it was a situation where you walking on like different sides of the street from like your neighbors and stuff so I think a little bit of that is projecting what happened like Rudy goar couldn’t have known how divisive things would get um anyway I did know about the crying thing I think he’s cried another time too uh he’s also I think he cried on the phone with his mom once H so what I eventually landed on was just like this guy is so kind of emotionally open sometimes and also so kind of candid and visible in his disappointments like he really wants the things he wants and when they don’t happen he gets upset and I think there’s a degree of how uncomfortable that makes people because everyone can relate like it shouldn’t because everyone can relate to that but there’s something about seeing those very vulnerable feelings mured in somebody like an athlete I think where we also project onto them heavily all the time um this this thing where like we don’t want them to emote and if we do it’s in very specific ways you know like they can be celebratory but it has to be within the bounds of I think still like very masculine sort of maniso even everything from like you know the celebratory gestures that somebody does on the floor if they want something really badly they like get to say it a few times but if they don’t get it it’s like they can never they can maybe be like yeah that you know that’s too bad but they can’t dwell on things they basically just like cannot run the full range of their human spectrum of emotions uh in public right like they can do it in private sure but like we don’t want to see it because I think it destabilizes this idea of what an athlete’s supposed to be certainly like a super Antiquated idea but I do think that’s still there whether that’s like in the discourse or just you know what we kind of again like project onto athletes and I think Rudy go bear upends that because he he’s just so Frank about the things that he wants I also think there’s a degree of otherness there especially now I don’t really understand why um so many people Americans especially American broadcasters in the NBA or players on broadcasters he hate European players like yeah that’s a whole thing too yeah and it’s like he’s quite French like in the way that he you know like he is very emotional uh but I think there’s like I don’t understand why it’s like people hate yic for the same reason but like yic is the opposite of gobear like he doesn’t emote yeah like he doesn’t give a [ __ ] he ref yeah and like people but people actually don’t like that because then with jokic who’s kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum it’s like no he want you to emote more but even that would be like up to a certain degree if he went full go bear people would wouldn’t like praise him for it they’d be like this guy’s lost it so I think well yeah and they also come from very different cultures like they’re not you know yeah so I I want to ask you something so he cried on the phone with his mom I think so and I think his mom was that public like how how do we know that like where was that I’m trying to remember where it was or if it was like he came out after and said something or I think like maybe his mom might have commented like she thought people were being hard on him oh okay or that he even just said you know yeah I was really disappointed and I cried and I called my mom oh okay yeah I just wanted to clarify that cuz I was like wait is there like video of this guy crying on the surprised but like I can’t I mean I know it for a reason like I wasn’t in the room when that happened but I do recall that everyone should be allowed to cry on the phone to their mom yeah like again that should be a very human impulse but there’s the sense I think of no these things have to happen in in public there’s a framework for how these things have to happen and if you kind of deviate from that then I think you are a little bit targeted like we’ve seen it with a lot of players who like emote or like choose to emote in a different way and I think that’s where some of his being ostracized comes from his peers granted I also just think for a long time we heard that Rudy goar could be kind of annoying like I think right that’s where the like fracture between him and Donovan Mitchell came from and I like in some in the way that in that article that Tim McMahon said like yeah cat and Anthony Edwards like and Rudy like they did not like like the whole time like I guess like his whole first season like they didn’t like him and then something happened where they were like okay this guy’s kind of goofy and now we kind of get along so I feel like we also if he is all those things and then has like a very grading sense of humor or personality which like everybody knows people like that or everyone has encountered someone like that who just immediately rubs you the wrong way then he’s got a few different things kind of working against him but like in a very philosophical way like very high level I just I wondered if Rudy go people really don’t like Rudy gobear because he mirrors back to us the things we’re most uncomfortable with in ourselves frankly right well especially like you said like the whole like machismo thing right like you know because there are a lot of emotional guys in the NBA but they’re emotional in this like I don’t know I don’t I almost said status quo way but I don’t even know if the right phrasing I think I think that’s correct though yeah like you know I mean like a Draymond Green right or like a Patrick Beverly like that’s like you know you’re kind of taught to be like oh that’s what being emotional as a guy as an athlete yeah is and those guys you’d be like they’re passionate but like when Rudy Go I mean when Draymond Green is like dragging Rudy goar across the floor in a choke hold yeah that’s not passionate to me that’s a problem um it a passionate problem it’s a passion but like for so long that was I think up until this year when um Draymond really overstepped the lines multiple times and did it so rapidly that changed a little bit but I think up until if he hadn’t done that I still think you know that’s something that could have been framed like he’s just such a passionate player and like he gets passionate for us and that like we need him to be like that like that’s the other thing you’ll hear right the Warriors always say that yes we need him to be like that and it’s like I mean behind closed doors they’re certainly being like you got to tone it down dude but you know out in front they’re like no that’s you know that’s who he is and we need we absolutely like applaud him for being that way yeah I feel I do feel like we’ve solved this mystery very well thank you so much detective Katie hindle um no it’s just so weird to me because I mean I don’t know about the grading personality issue that I can definitely stand but even the emotional stuff wouldn’t like again like wouldn’t you just like laugh that off and let it go like that like to hold a grudge against that to me is just wild especially like you know considering there’s like men in the NBA who’ve done awful things as we know and they’re just like yeah well he’s a great player and you’re just like okay how could I possibly judge him and the things he does yeah off the floor yeah and it’s like okay the things we the things care about you know yeah um okay another thing I want to ask you about Katie is all these insane injuries that have happened throughout these playoffs and you know there are people talking about you know did the 65 game rule this year uh for anyone who doesn’t know there was a 65 game rule uh that you had to play a minimum of 65 games in order to qualify for the NBA awards like all NBA defensive players MVP etc etc um do you feel like that 65 game rule impacted players to push themselves maybe more than they would have and therefore we have so many injuries throughout this year’s playoffs not really um I I don’t like the there’s an interesting dip there is an interesting dip I think in the data of like when guys started to to rest and it was almost like um when they hit that 65 game quota and a lot of that was like post allar I believe they were resting more and then they were ramping up you know maybe two three weeks after that actually probably maybe a month after that for the postseason right uh and I’ve written about this before like I’ve in I would say I have the most like investigative I shouldn’t do air quotes it was an investigative story but I’m like sure but I did write um I’ve written a few stories you know one was about load management and it was talking to sports scientists and a lot of people who studi this and that they spend their whole career studying this and I did another one whether there had been like an uptick injuries after the NBA’s bubble season when the scheduling was kind of out of whack and when guys did not not have access to the same training equipment uh that they would have had in what they call like the ramp up time and like the ramp up time from everything I’ve learned from the experts is the most important time and it’s not so much that the more games guys play the more they get hurt there are certainly more opportunities to get hurt but it’s not that there’s something in their bodies that is more fatigued what actually happens is when there are these gaps where they kind of stop playing either cold or are playing in a diminished way and then have to quickly get back to what they were used to that’s where there’s they’re most susceptible to injury um I mean I haven’t this was just kind of looking at the story you sent and like tracing and thinking for a second like oh right these guys would have stopped and been resting because they could have been rest that kind of pressure was off they hit the quota for 65 games or whatever um that would have been the time and then you know if they’re like okay we made the playoffs we we’re going to need you back because you’re going to be playing like upwards of 40 minutes a night that’s when they would kind of be setting themselves up honestly I think for like a greater risk of injury um and not from what I said before not from like that that actually would be something internal rather like that would be their bodies were not at the shape and condition they needed to be you know so there could be something there but granted like the opinions on this change all the time like when silver and the NBA came out this year and was like there’s no evidence it’s like sure but like in a way there’s no evidence either way there’s no there’s you know like you can make an argument for load management you could make one against it it would be the same every season and it really just comes down to these like specific conditions um but the like the basis of it is they haven’t it’s very expensive to test like you’d have to test so many NBA players all throughout a season and the way that they have to test them is like they have to take time off to test so this is another thing experts told me is like there’s never really been like a pure like scientific test of basketball players at a high level because of the way that their schedules are because they have to play so many games they can’t then go to a testing facility you know right it’s just like their schedule doesn’t allow for it so a lot of the data is also has huge gaps in it I wouldn’t say it’s incorrect it’s just like they don’t have it a lot of the time on that side of thing so um I don’t think the 65 game rule is contributing in the way that it’s Pro it’s like being set up to say that it is I think it’s probably just in that these guys got it to 65 games they took a break and then because they weren’t used to taking a break and had to get into like playoff shape very quickly that’s perhaps where some some things got exacerbated yeah I mean I feel like based on everything you’re saying which was really well put that I actually do think it is affecting these guys like you said not in the way that people might think but it is still affecting them and then of course like you know I don’t think embiid has ever admitted it out loud but that like you know he had these like chronic injuries and then it turned into a meniscus and then there was all this pressure to get him healthy for the playoffs and you can tell he just was not fully there and I don’t know like I I do think you know maybe these guys won’t say it out loud but I do think it was on their mind and and it’s not just about the awards themselves it’s also about the money right like these guys get huge financial incentives for being all MBA and stuff like that and I kind of feel like maybe that shouldn’t be a part of the equation with these Awards like I actually think they need to separate the money and the bonuses from that because it’s voted by the media and it’s very arbitrary and I don’t know if you can hear that it’s like the longest hair breaks in history it’s stop it sounded like a child on like the squeakiest tricycle just like I don’t know just the slowest breaking truck of all time sorry about that all good all good um but yeah I I do think think that they were impacted by I don’t think they’ll say it but I do think that like that they it was in the back of their minds and maybe they did push themselves more than they should I mean I feel like I don’t know I think Adam Silver said all of that because he’s a businessman yes and he cares about money and every decision he’s made has been about money and I’m not saying it it shouldn’t be but it’s like that’s the clear motivation for him yeah so I don’t know like maybe it’s you know that goes back to the argument about like not having an 82 Game season it should be less per like one thing I’ve been thinking about Katie I’m just kind of randomly throwing this in there is what if they just like cancelled preseason and then extended the 82 Game season because the every team’s figuring it out in the beginning of the season anyway uh you can still do that inseason tournament in like November leading up to like Christmas or whatever and then you can space the games out more and then you don’t have any backto backs no I think that’s smart because I would say like the preseason if the preseason could count towards the regular season which is what I think you’re saying because the preseason is kind of crucial in the sense that those games are not going to be as competitive and they are part of that ramping up process I was talking about because like yeah these guys have been in their training camps but like those scrimmages are much different than like you know um like a full right time NBA game uh and just like the the moves and the time that they’ll be playing and the conditioning and all of that like it it changes so maybe have like one pregame game and then that’s great for your markets too yeah and then start the season no I think that’s like a that certainly would be a good way of like you don’t have to shorten the season which a lot of people are calling for I have also like I don’t the worst idea um but then you don’t have to do it I think you’re totally spot on with most of what Adam Sil says he’s saying it because there’s either like a contract to be negotiated on the horizon which is I think what he was alluding to when he said that because it’s like they have to renegotiate all their broadcast deals and like no broadcaster if if Adam Silver was like oh yeah they’re is s there is like a lot of proof behind load management some broadcasters as callous as they can might be like oh does that mean we’re not going to see stars like every night right so like I think that’s a little bit of a wink and a nod to broadcasters on Adam Silver’s part which he’s always very aware of the Optics you know of everything going on but yeah I think that would be like a fine and like a pretty smart way to add to take you’re not adding games you’re not taking games away but you’re just starting things a little you’re starting them to count a little bit earlier because that in season tournament as much as it was fun like it’s not going anywhere that you know I still can’t get over that stupid Banner the baners the Lakers like need everything they can get right now clearly so cringe it is cringe to spray champagne on each other in December save it for New Year’s guys at least make it prco I mean at Le but I mean oh the banner the r like honestly out of here get out of here so put it in a community center like oh my God anyway that whole thing drives me crazy um okay Katie looking ahead to the off seon tons of room is already swirling right Paul George going to the 76ers Trey Young’s going to get traded oh my God what is like the one offseason prediction you think is actually going to be true or more than one um I don’t know that Paul George is going anywhere Trey young that he will probably get traded they got to move off somebody and it hasn’t been working with him I think the funniest like rumors again this is from the list that you sent but so many of them were just like this team is going to keep their pick it’s like okay yeah I know this is so bored they they tried so hard to get to 10 yeah I know yeah number four Jazz will keep number 10 pick and it’s like that is not no one cares the Spurs are gonna take their time like is that a rumor like they do things that’s their organizational like yeah yeah yeah like their biggest quality of that team yeah um I don’t know I heard something that it was like this off season is going to have way more moves than we ever expected but like I’m starting to think you know that can be true of every off season there are a million things that happen and that you forget about um I think like all the I think dear and the Bulls is probably a fair and sad thing that’s gonna happen though the idea of him going to the Clippers team and the rest of that Clippers roster staying intact somehow I’m just like sign me up for the retire NBA team I love the Clippers I love it’s just a collection how would they fit how would they fit dear into that equation like Prime are we or would we be looking at like a Demar Russ Off the Bench lineup no dear can’t come off the bench he’s he’s still but he’s still too strong of an offensive player maybe but I would say that the Clippers could use somebody like that coming off the bench so they have but they have Norm Powell they do have Norm Powell though to a degree I think Norm should probably be starting at this point like veracity of the the Clippers are like they’re an older team man I love them but yeah I mean I think I I might go a step further I think the Bulls are going to blow it up like I don’t I don’t think the Bulls are going to realistically return with this team I think you know there’s rumors that they tried to trade Zack LaVine at the trade deadline but then he was injured and then that like you know that kind of you know squashed that but maybe in this off season he could be traded I I think they’re GNA I think the Bulls are definitely going to rebuild um that would be my sort of bold offseason prediction I can’t not see Demar d rozan as a Clipper no there’s like a an have to move off of someone else not Russ not maybe but like maybe like if Harden moves or if yeah or if Paul George leaves and they quickly try to offer dear a deal but like I just don’t see him fitting in with that team as it is it’s too many ball heavy players right like it’s to it would just be like every play a new player in an ISO situation the Paul George thing is weird to me because it’s like he started that iteration of the Clippers he was like you know what I mean no actually I guess kawhai did but then kawai’s like I need to play with my best friend Paul George right so like I and then Paul George has a whole podcast to be like yeah see he is funny he is a cool guy I mean it is a good podcast um yeah but I will but like one no further evidence that those two are even friends or know each other frankly as more than colleagues maybe to maybe to Kawai that is friendship that’s true oh yeah that’s true I don’t know I’m kind of like how crazy could this offseason be like yes there were teams that got shook up in the playoffs but like none of the things that happened I think were that surprising you know what I mean like the shortcomings we could see it was just a question of how exacerbated were they going to get the coaching changes I think are the biggest things and like those seem to already be like like sights sorry the Cat my cat’s Auto feeder is going I don’t know if you can hear it you muted yourself but you were mids sentence I realized what I was doing as I was doing I was like you can’t do that um the coaching changes are like the biggest thing but like most of those have already happened right or rumored to be pretty much like completed JJ reic yeah um so I don’t know man like what could be the wildest thing a bull’s rebuild is more sad not that wild than crazy you know yeah yeah I mean I think Paul George leaving would be pretty wild but I don’t think it would happen I don’t think Klay Thompson’s gonna leave like I actually think like I don’t know if Trey young is going to get traded from the Hawks I feel like a lot of that talk is coming from other teams wanting to put Trey young next to their player and other media markets being excited by the prospect of Trey young moving I feel like even though like it hasn’t worked out since they made that Eastern Conference Finals run my impression and I could be wrong but my impression is that the Atlanta Hawk fan base still loves Trey young and I think yeah sorry no no no this is just my theory I think like that may be trading dejonte Murray to I don’t know for who but to keep Trey young and then to try and pair him with someone else and to try and build a sort of nucleus is more the direction I see them going in I don’t know if that’s going to work out like I’m not claiming that’s going to work out but I just don’t think the Hawks are going to give up on Trey young that easily I think they’re a very stubborn franchise especially when you look at like they obviously know the comparisons and it’s impossible for them to forget because it gets brought up like all the time especially in the postseason but it’s like you guys could have had Luca and you picked Trey um I think Trey I actually think Trey young leaving Atlanta would probably be good for Trey young too I think there comes a point when it’s just very clear that there’s a disconnect or a mismatch or like a player has on a team or VI Versa and I think that’s what’s happening there I think there’s a certain stubbornness of being like we don’t want to give up on this guy who we picked and we’ve brought now in several coaches to try and figure out like how to get the best of him and Coach the most out of him we’ve kind of changed the roster around him though we’ve really dragged our heels on that like feel bad again for John Collins just getting put through the trade rumors for so long until they actually pulled the trigger on it that was crazy yeah but like and now I think the same thing is happening to De jont Murray so I mean we’ll see I think they should move I think there should be like an amicable divorce there between the two of them well maybe that will happen maybe it will be an amicable uh divorce but I don’t know if like if they’re all you know internally getting along which it’s hard for us to say then I don’t see them being like Oh everyone here still you know everyone’s still buying Trey young jerseys but we’re just going to trade them anyways you know what I mean ha are a tough team for me because I don’t think I I can’t think of a team I feel as ambivalent about and that I forget about them all the time and I love Quinn Snider but like I forget about the Hawks and have like really no competitive opinion about them controversial opinion about Quinn Snyder don’t don’t don’t say something you might regret to me I I could do without the red glasses that’s my controversial opinion I like think of myself as an authority on glasses yeah that’s true glasses I think uh I think he should if he wants red I think you should go with a darker red like you know what I mean like almost uh like not maroon but like almost maroon okay or he should do something else but the bright red I feel detracts from his face what about like an acetate frame in like a different shape what if he did like a circle like a bold no I don’t know if that would suit his face I think it could in a maybe like a more Aviator style that type of circle but not like like fully round right I mean you’ll never convince me I love those glasses that’s fair I I I did preface that this was a controversial opinion I didn’t go to the hawk SK and well I do regret it I hope it doesn’t hurt our friendship it won’t it won’t but a part of me was like as sad as I was to miss that game I was also kind of relieved because I was like in my head I’m like Katie like I don’t know what you would have done like three feet away from this man I now I want to know I want you in a room with Quin Snider now well let’s we what is it wow I can’t believe I’m blanking on the word it’s because you’re thinking about those reg and Quin Snider when you project something visualization wow let’s let’s visualize it and make it happen I feel like you could like when he’s in Toronto you could go yeah you could get a media pass for the next Hawks Raptors game that’s when I missed it the last time oh yeah yeah oh sorry I thought you meant you were in Atlanta for a second my bad no I was in I have my season credential uh but I I wasn’t like able to go to that game and it was like kind of it was like heartbreak but also like secret relief no you gotta go I don’t want to get arrested as a former coach lover myself you you need to go okay the thing is is like you know i’ I’ve moved on to Klay Thompson everyone who listens to this podcast knows that I don’t know what I would do I don’t know what I would say if I ever met Klay Thompson I interviewed Klay Thompson for my book this season he was one of the last people I talked to this season Katie I can’t believe I didn’t tell you one I don’t think I knew you moved on to Clay but like good choice I probably didn’t tell you I moved on to Clay okay um tell me everything forget every topic I sent you Clint Thomson is like a joy to talk to like he’s one of the which is why I wanted to talk to him and what I wanted to talk to him was a lot about like being vulnerable and like the words we kind of assign to play you know being so hard and like grading kind of what we were talking about earlier you know and I wanted to talk to him about honestly pleasure and like how pleasurable it must feel sometimes to just be able to do the things that someone like him is able to do you know and like we really can over complicate it but something I was curious about and I’ve I’ve talked to a few players about this but just like does it are you ever just like this feels really good to be able to do you know what I mean like you you must take some pleasure in the things that one that your body can do that you’ve conditioned it to this point where like you’re able to you know kind of control it and the game and like almost sometimes it seems like time in that way um and like Clay is you know one of those guys where he’s great to talk to because you actually never know what he’s gonna say you know uh and Clay that’s why I wanted to talk to him about that and because I think he’s like very candid about he’s very genuine yeah his feelings and I think he’s one of the only players I’ve ever talked to who like kind of he’ll like change his mind throughout what he’s saying and he’s not self-conscious about that you know he’ll be like oh it’s kind of like this he’ll be like you know what no it’s not like that it’s actually like this and I I really like that cuz you can see him processing the thing that you’re saying the first thing he said to me when I told him I want to talk to him for the book was wow an author he’s like not just any other blogger and I was like no I do those two he’s like oh you do everything I’m like yep sure thank you Clay Johnson um but yeah he told me it’s one of the best feelings in the world it feels incredibly good you know we got more granular about the specifics of it but he was talking about kind of like being in a free state and the things that he went through after his injury and honestly being scared that he would not feel how good it felt to move that way again which was sort of heartbreaking because it’s something I think again like we think like oh it’s going to suck if these guys careers are over for like these more I don’t know like callous reasons or like financial reasons or their legacy Etc but like we don’t think how it might feel to just lose something that feels so good to do that you love are really good at you know and it can sometimes be as simple as that so clay was great I think Chris Paul was getting like a massage treatment right behind us was like then I went back after the game to talk to him he was like in his underwear he’s like can I get dressed like yeah for sure don’t worry I’ll wait over here he was in his underwear yeah it happens Katherine and you just politely look in this space you know you you keep your eyes up um that I you know good for you like Clay is just like I was certainly nervous he is one of those people to talk to where this doesn’t happen to me often but like the reality of the person kind of aligns with your whether it’s like fandom or just like a bit star star stuckness of their personality it hits you sometimes and that’s I think that like those are the moments where in your head you blank a little bit and you’re like oh sh I’m talking to this person and then you have to quickly bring yourself back wow this is why you’re the journalist and you know what Katie like I think you know not I’m not just saying this to butter you up for no reason but like it you’re the one person who asks those questions you know I mean like really like that is like that is in part what makes you special because you are like I want to know how they feel just about playing basketball and for all the media that exists and for all the questions these guys get they don’t get that question and I think that’s really cool thanks Katherine mostly I think it’s cool when someone like clay and this is like another kudos to Clay thing is understands like the vulnerabilities kind of inherent in a question like that you know and still decides to answer truthfully you know and like kind of like silly but serious really sincere um you know like that’s that’s a really rare thing because and I I will totally acknowledge you it’s one thing to ask those questions in the relative privacy of a locker room where guys are like with their teammates and friends versus like a a Podium you know I think set does like certainly change it but anyway thank you you’re welcome you interviewed Klay Thompson in his underwear I mean he put CL he did put clo on yeah but eventually you know all right I’ll ask you about that more uh offline okay we’re just like having a hard time transitioning here that’s all my fault that’s absolutely my fault um okay Katie it’s hottie highlight of the week time I guess I feel like I just gave you the hottie highlight but well that’s the hottie highlight of the Year forget the week um but I uh okay so you know we’re giving everyone a choice now we’re giving the guest a choice which you’ve done and uh your choices this week I I had to search I didn’t even realize this happened because I don’t uh I’m not on Tik Tok but uh Scotty Barnes linked up with uh a popular Tik tocker who is a Tor based in Hong Kong uh his name is Roshan moani uh and he works at Sam’s tayor in Hong Kong and I guess he’s known for being quote handsy with his clients and he said quote in relation to Scotty Barnes quote he doesn’t realize the nightmare he’s just walked into while in the process of being measured for tailored clothes so this is option one okay option two is former Raptor Pascal cakam talking about the quote breakup that he went through leaving Toronto referring to leaving Toronto as a breakup and that it was really hard on him and if it wasn’t for Indiana being so supportive when he came he’s actually Unsure how he would have handled it or what he would have done which is like you know very opposite to the silly Scotty Barnes scenario but it’s more emotional it’s more you know tied to his time as a raptor Katie what say you this is tough because I You’ think I would pick Pascal because of this like vulnerability you know uh and it is very vulnerable I think for him to say that and I am proud of him to be a point where he can like talk about I’m like I’m proud of him you know I don’t mean that in a condescending way I mean not at all yeah like it it he it must feel good to be at a place where you can talk about something like that and call it what you felt like it was at the time right to to name it um but I’m gonna pick Scotty barns because I don’t have Tik Tok either but I saw on an Instagram story like I guess a week ago he was going to Hong Kong and I I’m a huge I love Hong Kong I was like oh that’s sick he’s going to have a great time I feel like he’s gonna love it but I didn’t know what he was doing there unfamiliar with this like handsy Tik Tock Taylor but the handy Tik Tock Taylor he should change his his candle but um that sounds fun and cool that he’s he’s you know I hope he didn’t just go to Hong Kong to see a guy from Tik Tok though I feel like that’s where we’re headed to in terms of like what dictates our whims of travel um but I like that more I don’t know it’s also in line with the way that we’ve been um oogling people on this podcast for the last 20 minutes so I feel like it fits in with the them look in all fairness to me I have one hottie highlight at the end of every episode and I did not know that I was embarking a story about you interviewing Klay Thompson in his underwear okay like I just I didn’t know Quin before that to be fair and then Quinn snd before that I just you know we just ended up there we didn’t know we didn’t know we just spontaneously ended up in it’s summer you know it’s summer yeah you should tell your listeners match our freak step up oh yeah yeah actually that that should be that should be the post match or freak match or freak oh I can’t wait to see the comment section on that uh yeah Scotty’s a great choice uh I’m sure he’s doing other things in Hong Kong um I you know I’m curious to see what his fits will be next season now now that we know that he’s spending his off season to get tailored outfits by famous I didn’t even know there were famous tailor what does this guy do he just grabs he gropes people he gets close I I guess because he’s been referred to as Hy and I I can only assume handsy tailor means one thing like they’re going it they’re taking a a really close measurement in a certain yeah that’s what I would assume that’s what it’s implying okay someone can let us know how handsy this tail I’d say like most tailor when I’ve ever had clothes altered or like you know seamstresses and tailor they got to get in there I mean they don’t go you know yeah they’re very professional about it it’s a different touch it’s like a doctor’s touch it’s a bit surgical it’s very doctory I agree yeah like this guy’s caressing maybe yeah like if I’m getting like measured for a bra or something it’s very doctor like yeah yeah a bra fitting yeah I’m sure half your listeners can’t relate but that’s a different you are just you just forget that you’re what you’re doing you just forget what that you’re like you’re just there and open shout out to all the listeners who can relate to a bra fitting though you know absolutely um yeah I I yeah you know life changing experience Raptor Republic do it Raptor’s Republic very male audience but you know the I feel like the women are here with me you know I feel that if you’ve never done one and you’re on the fence you got to do it it will change your life and the experience if you feel nervous don’t be they they’re professionals they are some of the like most you know what I mean I am laughing at the way you said professional they’re Pros they are professionals like it was just just I mean kudos to them I’m remembering in a Flash like all these you know in like a montage all the great broad experience can’t beat that feeling feel confident well fitted everything should yeah absolutely um amazing we should they match your freak britters do they match your freak there we go that’s going to be the clip this week uh no kid won’t be uh thank you everyone uh for tuning in and listening appreciate you all so much uh if you haven’t yet uh subscribe like if there’s an option to like and all that good stuff I’m trying to get better at saying those things uh you know we’re gonna we’re going to get better at it it’s a whole thing uh Katie thank thank you so much for joining me uh let us know uh what you’re up to and where we can find you on the internet yeah you can find me on Twitter uh at whatev WTS you can also go to basketball feelings.com uh you can subscribe I have a podcast there as well I have my annual playoff series called exits which gives every NBA team as they are eliminated a little bit of Runway have a lot of great guests this year writing so I don’t have to write every teams which is great I also have a a WNBA column uh at the believe of our magazine the third installment will be coming out this Friday is about Candace Parker if you want to talk about professionals absolutely a professional on a Phenom uh you can read that at I should really learn what the I think it’s just believer it might just be believer. comom theel ver.com so you I guess if you Google like WNBA believer people will find it you’ll find it right away yes yes oh and I will plug uh they’re unfortunately eliminated but I wrote a profile about TJ McConnell for SB um it’s quite a long story I talked to so many people about him Jimmy Butler was one of them I have not heard grown men gush the way they do about TJ McConnell I was having to like get off the phone with these guys because they were not letting me go they just want to talk about how great he is um and I talked to TJ too so you can find that at SP Nation oh my God that’s amazing um thank you again thank you everyone and we’ll catch you next time bye [Music]

This week Host Cathryn Naiker is joined by Basketball Feelings star Katie Heindl to discuss their thoughts on the NBA Playoffs. Can Minnesota do the impossible and come back from being down 0-3? Their feelings on what looks like a Boston Dallas finals & more. Then they do some detective work and try to solve the question, why does everyone hate Rudy Gobert? From the media to his peers, he seems to be one of the most unlikable players in the NBA and they dig deep to uncover some possible answers. Then they look at early off-season rumors and pick which one they think is most likely to be true. They share their love for Quinn Snider & Klay Thompson respectfully, and Katie shares a fun story about interviewing Thompson. Then in our Hottle Highlight of the week, Katie has to pick between Scottie in Hong Kong and Pascal reminiscing on his “break up” with the Raptors.

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