Where Do The Indiana Pacers Go From Here?

Where Do The Indiana Pacers Go From Here?

we should talk Pacers right we haven’t talked Pacers yet yes and I’m excited because Caitlyn Cooper went on the low post from go subscribe to basketball she wrote if you didn’t already I’ve not listened to the episode which is good in the sense that I feel like I would just end up attributing everything I say to what she thinks that’s whatever happens whenever I read or listen to her but it’s also sad because it’s like I’m gonna say some [ __ ] I’m go back with that podcast like oh like no I wish I could take back everything I literally just said about the Pacers but go check out that episode I love Caitlyn Cooper she’s she’s great it’s cool that she was on the low post but the Pacers uh like what are your thoughts kind of going into the to the offseason I have like their we have we both I’m sure have their sort of cap situation here we have Pascal seaks free agency where do you where where do you want to go with this how like where this is the question we have to ask where do the Pacers Go From Here Grant right like so I you know you can’t avoid thinking that as as they’re in the process as as they were in the process of getting eliminated and like I don’t know if it’s just me kind of pushing back against the like okay now this is the the conversation we have to have and here’s the things I got to start thinking about but I just found myself kind of like it’s [ __ ] awesome that the Pacers were this good this year and like that they that they that they found this kind of identity that they know what they’re going to be that they swung big on a trade and it worked out and it’s just like I think I don’t know it’s nice that a team that didn’t bottom out that has like historically refused to bottom out just found a way to like get itself back into the like we’re serious we’re going to need to be taken seriously for a long time now without going the conventional route so that was awesome like everything about the Pacers season to me uh is a huge win I I know you mentioned uh Kaylin Cooper we had her on for the look ahead and I don’t think I wish I could remember but like no the level of success Indiana has had was not foreseen by anyone including her who knows more about the Pacers than anyone has or ever will so like it also you add in well this was surprising so that makes it even better so where do they go from here like I don’t know if they need to I mean you said it’s like the SE yakum free agency I think the the report today I saw was like I think as Shams had it like they’re gonna Max him but it wasn’t clear if that meant five years or four we’ve had that conversation about like which of those do you give him which of those do you need to uh which of those was hypothetically agreed to before the trade was executed uh but other than that it’s just kind of like we hope Halbert stays healthy all year and is an MVP candidate for more than the first you know 30 games or whatever and you just kind of run it back and you make some decisions about the center rotation maybe like I don’t know that you you make you hope jarus Walker makes an appearance at some point so yeah so the the Pascal SE because we need to get into like what we think they need but I want to ask you this macro question do you because I think people might I think this is a lazy take but I think people might compare this to when the Hawks reach the the Conference Finals in was that 2021 yes and it was just like no like that was they didn’t belong there and you could say well like the Knicks didn’t have OG or Julius Randall Mitchell Rob everyone was injured by the end of that series I this is different this is just it’s so much different from that in part because like everything just makes so much more sense when you’re looking at what the Pacers have built between halberton and SE yakum and when you’re talking about the Pacers offseason I’ve seen people mention caps space it’s just they don’t have cap space because yakum is coming back like you don’t make that trade if he’s not if they give him we’ve talked about this so the four-year Max is from them is 189.5 and the fiveyear max is 245.20 if it’s less over five years it wouldn’t surprise me but that’s the one like do you do you have any thoughts on what you would expect I I think I think I’ve if I haven’t mentioned this I I think Indiana I would have no problem with Indiana going full four-year Max I just don’t think you have to go five at that full at the full number and if they did go five I would only be like I I don’t know it’s like like I get a say in this like I’d only be cool with it if but like if you do the full five years it’s got to be submax I think by a decent amount I just don’t know if SE yakum would want that necessarily uh so because he might want to just get back on the market again in four with the full Max but yeah four years full Max you beat the market that way nobody else can offer for him more over four years and like the scenario of him leaving because oh I want the fifth year seems crazy uh so so that’s what I would be going for and anything under the max in any capacity I think is probably a win for Indiana yeah and I mean even if it’s just the four-year Max I think that ends up being a win for them and they you know I think I don’t know that we learned anything about them in this series looking at okay well what do they need going in the off it’s like they do kind of need like a a bigger Wing Defender type maybe that’s jarus Walker um they could certainly use like a buddy healed analog is stupid as that says I know it’s good that tyres halberton has that experience off the ball but You’ also like to not have to see him necessarily use in all those instances I also am wondering how the and Andrew neard was good all year but like this emergence of Andrew nard and you have T.J McConnell uh entering the final year of his deal like what does that like where does benedi mathine fit into this group now you could also talk about this is a team where okay like we have they have their two bigs of the future but then you kind of look at it and say well is rebounding an issue for them at all and it’s like they rebounded fine I think they had a like a fairly High offensive rebounding rate against the Celtics but the Celtics did not they were playing relative like they weren’t playing dual big lineups with Al Horford and Christof porzingis so you could just look at Indiana was not a good defensive rebounding team in the the playoffs or the regular season and so that’s an area that it gets you into no we’re not moving on from seak or Turner but do we bring back Obi toppen do we extend Isaiah Jackson it gets you into and then I think it impacts the type of forward maybe that you would want to or Wing that you wouldn’t want to Target can they pitch in there at all but they before throwing it to you their financial situation is going to allow them to do some stuff because even if you pencil in SE yakum for his max salary next season and then You’re Gonna Keep I would assume that you’re gonna keep the Obi toppen cap well maybe not the cap hold because it’s $20 million then you also have the Isaiah uh not Isaiah Jackson jayen Smith has a player option for 5.4 I I guess he’ll decline it although he wasn’t really playing prominent minutes for them by the end but like this is my point being this is a team that if you resign Pascal sakam to his max you should still have access to the non- taxpayer mid level exception so over12 million the by annual exception which is almost like $5 million now or whatever and then there’s also a chance that you’re able to keep I would say Obi toppen Andor jayen Smith under sort of that structure so you do have moves and by the way this is in addition to you’re going to have I think three trade three tradable future first round picks in add addition to swaps and Benedict math and jarus Walker if you really want to go balls to the walls here and I don’t even know why I just phrased it that way but what are you when you’re looking at what they need and then their ability to make different degrees of moves if you’re running this team how are you going about this offseason in terms of one what is your single biggest priority aside from resigning Pascal cakam and then two how aggressive are you willing to be about going to address that single biggest priority yeah I think I think my number one priority would be finding somebody to guard the guys that are that Aaron nouth is guarding but are a little too big for Aaron n Smith usually so I think that was maybe the first thing you said is like you need a bigger Wing combo forward type guy that is gonna you know that isn’t just giving up huge amounts of size to some of the wing matchups that n Smith has to guard and like it’s Weir looking at the roster just generally it’s weird that like I really like n Smith like he’s one of my favorite role players but I think it’s that is a spot they need to upgrade um I don’t know how you’re going to address the rebounding stuff like without fundamentally changing what I like about this team a lot you know it’s like oh is Andre Drummond coming off the bench for you now yeah you you do it that way but it’s like I like the spacing Turner provides and Turner’s had some incredible moments in these playoffs like I’m not messing with his minutes obviously you’re not messing with siakam’s minutes how Burton’s locked in so it’s kind of like at the two3 spot that I that I’d look for it weirdly I don’t like this they cannot get him they will not get him but it’s it’s funny that like ogan anobi feels like he’d be a really good fit here just like well the Raptors tried that with him and seaka there was a ceiling on it uh but you know what I mean someone with real size as a forward Wing that is gonna make threes doesn’t have to be some like you can’t find the guy that checks that box and also checks the Buddy heeled box because that that player doesn’t really exist but like if they did holy [ __ ] if they did they’re that’s a max player who is who are we describing OG Anon obi’s defense with Buddy held’s three-point shooting is there a person you know it’s hard it’s hard to think about like checking the shooting box and the like that there’s just nobody it’s not there so I guess if you got to pick one you just I think I’d skew defense obviously because this team’s offense is gonna be [ __ ] awesome no matter what uh so I think that’s that’s the way I’d go I I don’t really have a like a I don’t know if I have a player in mind um oh I got you got Wonder well here’s one do you think the and looking at free agents and who they could realistically get does someone like Malik Beasley do enough to fulfill some of the Buddy hee stuff I think he gets you pretty close to buddy heeld I mean I think probably I mean with with the same or like worse issues defensively um the other name like free agent that stood out to me for them was Derrik Jones Jr oh my God that’d be fun you think that that would be like because they have the SPAC in to make it work I don’t know if the three-point shooting will hold here I mean Tyrus halton’s as Transcendent a playmaker as anyone in the league at this point uh so I I like he’s not I you kind of when you look at him it’s well he’s a little spindly so it feels like they should get a stronger Wing but it’s like look at what he who he has defended and how well he has done and then you just throw in I know he’s getting a little older but like the athleticism in pop is still there yeah I think I think he’d be phenomenal and like I haven’t really thought about what I think he’s gonna get in free agency but to go from a minimum to like the full mid level which might be on the high end for him but also maybe not because I guess like would you go the like are you g three four years for that and Dallas has ways of I think he would stay in Dallas if they because they have ways of accessing the full midlevel which the only way they could keep them yeah is to use the midlevel because they’re not 120% raise off a minimum isn’t going to do it for the non- bird rights uh but if they can’t or they won’t for some re I don’t know why they if they have the mid level to give or he’s will to come back for a chunk of that I think at this point you almost have to keep him but so Indy’s not necessarily in a position to out bid unless Dallas is books become so like I Dallas should as of right now they have ways of just having the full midlevel and then running back basically their current roster and they could cut s they could trade Tim Hardway Jr for a cheaper player if they need to open up more wriggle room beneath the tax but that’s a name I stood out my I guess my main point of that was if you’re the thing that we both agree by the way because I agree with you that their biggest need doesn’t feel like it could be addressed in free agency not just because of the resources they have available where it’s not actual cap space and if they have actual cap space something ridiculous has happened didak we they got bigger problems if they have capace and then so then that’s when you get into okay well what can they what will they do on the trade market and how aggressive should they be well that’s the more that’s the more interesting question right because like on the one hand you say well we got Tyrese halberton he’s in the very early stages of his new Max like we’re you know nothing urgent here but then you also are about to max out Pascal zakum for his early 30s and so like you are you’re not all in by any stretch but like your team’s going to get fairly expensive and you just won a couple playoff rounds and Tyrese halberton was on track to be like a top five MVP guy before he got hurt and still was an all-nba player so like what are you waiting for um I so I I guess that suggests you need to kind of operate a little with a little more urgency um than you might normally think for a ters team I guess too some people are going to say they beat two teams that had a bunch of injuries like going you know getting really aggressive now might be a mistake because we’re overestimating how good this team is I mean there’s something to that like that’s not a ridiculous argument to make but I think if you have SE yakum that you’re gonna pay all this money and you have halberton entering his prime like it’s probably go time so so I think I’d skew towards more urgency but like what does that look like are you thinking you’re going to like so you could put together some you know salary pretty easily to get a good number and you throw those three picks you mentioned in there like I was wrong by the way it’s because of how they structured the Toronto deal so they’re giving up the 24 first and the 26 first I believe they can trade two first round picks and four swaps then then like who’s the guy like I I think because you said urgency and if you were putting I won’t say everything but let’s say most everything on the table there’s the level of urgency okay well then this is like it almost but the combination of and I’m not saying everything but two firsts up to four swaps jarus Walker and Benedict mathine does that get you into the Mel Bridges discussion I think it should uh I feel like Brooklyn just based on some of the offers they have not accepted for him just might say like nah that’s not enough if if you’re Indiana I think Bridges well Bridges is pretty darn close to like the type of player we were talking about he’s not the volume shooter but like in a smaller role that guy’s been lights out from three so I mean and the combination of him and neith defensively because you talked about upgrading the nemith spot it could also just be like well maybe we’re having nemith and Mel Bridges play right together and Turner and oh my God that gets very fun just think they thinking about that but and so I think I would do it if they if you told me Mel bridg is coming I would give up everything because I think that this team is that close if you could keep especially if it’s okay you don’t need to send n Smith out in that deal but now that gets you into another interesting discussion because Mel Bridges is cheap relative to his just the level of player that he is if you’re Indie and you’re not moving seum or halberton and then it’s I mean like you ideally don’t want to move Turner I wouldn’t think you’re matching Sal becomes all right it’s TJ McConnell is your fourth highest paid player as of right now behind SE yakum well siakam’s Max Turner and Halbert next year at 9.3 and maybe Obi toppen ends up making more but you’re not goingon to end up like moving him oh he’s their fifth nce myth excuse me I was think if you don’t want to move him so T.J McConnell at 9.3 becomes your fifth highest paid player so like you’re looking at him matthan makes 7.2 jarus Walker at 6.4 uh did jayen Smith pick up his player option if he didn’t you have Isaiah Jackson at 4.4 so like whatever they do and by way they have Ben Shepard floating around like he’s shown some things defensively and been able to move away theall played a lot like I mean he was Inu but like you would have to give up so much of it to protect your core when when it comes to salary M because like let’s just use Jeremy Grant as an example I’m not saying they should go after him but because his number is so high you’re now consolidating like three or four rot if you’re not trading Turner SE yakum or halberton like you’re consolidating three or four dies into one and Jeremy Gretch is not the player you want to do that for yeah it’s It’s Tricky I mean this is the this is what’s facing like every team that that is you know in this position that’s trying to upgrade it’s just like Jeremy Grant isn’t the guy you know it’s like you’re not you’re not getting Bridges and Jeremy Grant’s not it and so like where does that leave you uh you know um I if you had to choose between including McConnell or Maan in a trade you don’t make me answer that I would pick I would Pi Ma at this point to trade I think because going to give you more of Off the Bench and theory of what you need but I also kind of understand the whole well if you’re playing nard and TJ McConnell and so many of one of their minutes is gonna overlap with halberton because both those guys are better with the ball specifically McConnell are you eating too much into halbert’s role and as as benedi ma still has a ways to go he’s probably the best off ball player of those three I guess you could make a case for for nard at that point so like that you get into that discussion but I would pick mathine just because in a vacuum I still think he should yield like if you were gonna get a first round pick for TJ mcconell you probably just need to make the move because you have nem hard and halberton right but I think benedic Ma in theory because it still has a little bit of the mystery box element to it is the better trade asset and therefore like I would say move him but but also there would be riots in Indiana if you trade a TJ McConnell at this point true isn’t the statue already up probably what’s the statue doing what like what pose is it in is it I think it’s like him sneaking Baseline for the steel like that the one I think that’s probably it um what a what a great series for McConnell or great playoffs for McConnell the and so but like so you run into these like like names that you could think of and it just gets the player that they need is one that’s or their single biggest priority feels like it could be the single biggest priority of so many teams yeah that it’s just not that they’re going to have to overpay to get them it just it feels like it’s going to require a level of aggression that I still don’t think that they’re going to show just because it would be even the seak trade um I like that they kind of got quote unquote rewarded by getting to the Conference Finals I like seeing teams go for it but that was like an ultra reasonable price to pay for a borderline all NBA player and like again I mean it wasn’t risk-free like the guy’s going to be a free agent so it’s like that that’s that’s part no I mean that’s it was bold but it was like it was the appropriate level of risk for that type of player for this team at that time like I think I think that was fine I I would also say like I know I said I might skew towards some urgency just because of how good the team like I would be totally okay if they ran it back you know like I I think I think that’s fine I think that’s part of the like well they overachieved and we’re all happy about it it was a fun season if they bring this exact group back I don’t think anybody’s mad about it you know and they just they could because they could absolutely sell it as like we didn’t think with the assets we have right now that the right guy was out there so we’re going to be patient we’re you know that’s an easy sell to me because of how much this team overachieved relative to like preseason expectations so I disagree mostly because I think that highly and urgently also of the window they kind of have with zakum there and but I would agree to the extent of okay well it’s we didn’t go out and try to get Mel Bridges or Jeremy Grant or just like insert bigger name I’m sorry what’ you say we’re not going Zack LaVine shopping because we got to do something it’s not it’s not gonna be that right but I do think like if you told me like it needs to be like we spent like if we have the full non- tax like we spent it and it was did that Caleb Martin did we poach Caleb Martin from Miami who has to deal with second apron concerns if he Ops out of his contract they might not be able to well they could they could pay him because he’s his own free agent but maybe they don’t want to because of the second apron concerns um is it we went out we traded for Dorian finny Smith so guys who are not solving all your problems in a vacuum but they make you better enough to where it’s okay we’re banking on some development from jarus Walker here we didn’t upend any of like our young we didn’t trade Shephard we didn’t trade mathine but like I do think that it’s and this is such a weird way to frame it I want them to get someone that you could Envision potentially closing games for them and so if that’s a Dorian finy Smith is probably not the maybe he is the worst player where it’s well maybe he’s not closing games for you because you have Turner seak halberton are just locked in and then is he I think n Smith might be almost a lock and then it’s well does nard make more sense in certain instances but he would be in the conversation for one of the final two spots I would think in addition to Shephard maybe being in there in jarus Walker if you’re gonna run it back though you need like a monster sophomore campaign from jarus Walker at that point feel that’s an uncomfortable spot to be oh for sure and you would need mine to like take a pretty big step I think if you’re you’re looking to do you no I I think if you run it back and you say like again which I I would be being conservative like I’d be okay with it I think it’s justifiable it’s a huge ask for jerus Walker who like just didn’t play basically but I think you’d need him to be I don’t know where in the rotation he’d need to be he’d need to feature though I think Walker would and then maen I think would need to make it like oh should do we is it n Smith or is it maen tonight like it’s got to be like that level of like where mathern is like clearly bringing stuff to the table every night doesn’t feel Superfluous which to me like right now he kind of does like I don’t know it doesn’t feel to me like Indiana needs matheran like I don’t I don’t know what he does that’s like you gotta have this on the floor that he needs to get to that level where it’s like oh he’s giving us something that we can’t get from n Smith nard McConnell whatever whatever that is as of right now is there a chance I’m not trying to it’s been so long since we saw him play and I do think he made some strides this year so I want to make that clear before we I know a lot of Pacers fans love the idea of Ben ma is how many of it next year let’s just say they run it back T.J McConnell Ben Shepard Andrew nard how many of those guys are in front of Benedict mathine in the rotation is it all three that’s the thing if it’s I I I have never been the biggest mine fan through like through his long and stored career he’s like been around for 10 minutes but like never never been my favorite guy uh I I think I guess what I was saying is like he has to be above a couple of those guys for the Pacers to get like to to to Really justify like not making a move I don’t know if he would be right like basic just imagine he was healthy for this playoff run it’s like McConnell was like you had to have McConnell out there on the floor for long stretches like nard played his ass off like especially without Halbert and nouth is like well you you had no better Wing defensive option like so again I I don’t think Maan deserves to be ahead of any of those guys Shepard maybe uh but but like we’ve seen so little of Shepard outside of you know this playoff run really that that like I don’t know he endeared himself to me with his defensive effort in summer league and there’s just once you do that it’s I have him ahead of tyres halberton in the rotation you’re okay that’s fair I mean what do do you think mine’s ahead of any of those guys I think you could probably make a case that he should be ahead of McConnell just because of how limiting McConnell can be if he doesn’t have the ball on offense but that still requires okay well then Ben ma needs to make heavier lifts on defense which is like the appeal of Ben Shew kind of doesn’t need the ball works his ass off defensively so it’s I think you he honestly has a case above all of them but it’s it’s a case it’s not inarguable the Pacers would very much prefer that it was in arguable in favor of Maan like that that would be a best G like where he was just like and that’s not you know he’s going into his third year seasons of basketball yeah like if if he takes a if he takes like a decent sized leap it’s like oh yeah no right this is the guy we took in the lottery this is what he’s supposed to be everything we’re on track like that’s totally plausible I just so far I’m not 100 I’m not super confident that he’s gonna be more than like a six-man scoring type I know that’s pigeon hauling him really early but that’s just the vibe I I get so far uh so just very quickly SE yakum back you think Obby topping is back that’s a tough one right he’s restricted you mentioned like 10 million for him or to get up you know Over The McConnell figure maybe like yeah I mean he should I think he gets more than the 9.3 that McConnell’s made his cap hold is over 20 I don’t think he’s getting that much no no no do well do you think he’s getting like maybe maybe like the question is isn’t he more valuable to some other teams than he is to the Pacers especially if you think jarus Walker is gonna have like any significant role going forward here’s my thing with that is because the speed at which the Pacers play and the spacing they have is that is he because like he’s a one position player yeah and there are probably very few teams that have room for that in their front court at the moment yeah it’s I’m asking because I don’t know like it’s a weird because the style is tailor made for him to do all the things that he’s best at and and that just won’t be true really almost anywhere else but it’s like how valuable can can you be a serious like if you want to be a real Eastern Conference Contender can you give a guy that’s super limited and like a has a niche skill set you know the mid level or that like that that that that close to that number I I I just don’t I don’t know um I I would guess he’ll be I guess I he’ll probably be back I think they can match like I don’t think anyone’s coming over the top with like 15 a year 20 right I think you might as well just preserve the salary slot yeah there you go good point yeah maybe maybe that’s it so P seak back top and back if if only for asset preservation maybe jayen Smith do you think he winds entering free agency 5.4 million player option man I think I I think it might be time for me to give up on him uh is he gonna do better than like he’s given up five that means he’d probably want to be able to sign like a multi-year deal worth like eight to 10 like I don’t know if that’s out there for him uh I just with the way that toppen ended up playing in the post season two it feels like he will if if Smith enters free agency and I also think that even Jackson getting him on an extension will be a higher priority than bringing back Smith and I just don’t know which team is going to I mean there I guess there are teams that could use a floor spacing big but a lot of them are just going to be teams that are gonna offer him less than five like Phoenix might like to reunite with Jaylen Smith at this point but that’ll be a minimum right yeah no I think ultimately he’s not like there there’s almost no way that I could imagine where his 24 25 salary will be greater than the player option who wouldd have to decline to sign a new deal some interesting I’m just wondering like does Detroit like just needs bacing let’s just go get Jaylen Smith at 10 million for two years or something I I mean good for him I’m taking that if I’m him um but I would have I would bet he’s gonna be back and because he’ll just pick that option up and then I I think he I don’t know what’s gonna happen with his player option I honestly don’t have a feel I’m gonna say he’s not back because if he opts in I think he’ll get traded okay yeah that I think that would be the smarter course because he’s you don’t especially if you bring top in back like that’s he’s your fourth big guy like maybe fifth if Walker can play up a little bit so yeah that’s he’s not exactly integral to the operation and do you think from TJ McConnell Andrew nart Ben Shepard Benedict Ma and jarus Walker how many of those guys are back or how many I’m gonna set the over under of those guys being traded at 0 five I think I’d go under like why all five of them are just coming back yeah I think so I mean I’m going to manifest my I’m cool with it if you run it back thinking you went from this team needs to express urg to like bring every you tell I was like really trying to Waffle on the urgency thing I talked myself into it I’m I I think in in my heart of hearts uh I’m I’m okay with this team looking very similar and banking on like a couple of key organic growth plays and if those don’t work out then you maybe start thinking about what to do with those two firsts [Music]

Dan and Grant discuss the future of the Indiana Pacers following their Eastern Conference Finals loss to the Boston Celtics. Topics include: Pascal Siakam’s free agency, the rise of Andrew Nembhard, trade and free-agency possibilities, the development of Bennedict Mathurin and Jarace Walker and more! CHECK OUT THE FULL EPISODE: https://youtu.be/T8xlQUbCIKc?si=rAUcVugJQoBupXkW.

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