Celtics challenge Jordan’s Bulls, Heat Big 3 & Kyrie Top 10 Wingman Ever? | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST

Celtics challenge Jordan’s Bulls, Heat Big 3 & Kyrie Top 10 Wingman Ever? | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST

live from New York it’s the show that is celebrating International Corgi day oh brw Corgis have long body short legs and big hearts nobody cares I knew that like I don’t know what a corgi is a dog you knew had a big I I had no idea what real talk legendary Celtics the franchise no I’m actually talking about this team Boston Globe staff writing it’s a take so hot there’s four authors on it should the Celtics win it all they will absolutely belong in the conversation just in the conversation as one of the handful of greatest single season teams in NBA history the data and analytics already tell us that they are I have those backed up with Josh yes Josh told me it’s true what do you guys eye test it now it’s up to Celtics to tell us that they are as well by confirming it on the court no no no no no no no no go ahead would a title cement the okay no like it would cement them as Champions it would cement them as maybe throughout the year slightly underrated in a lot of quarters including this one it would cement all of that but alltime great team is such a ludicrous bridge too far just I am this is a cursory cuz I think Brew is going to have more an official one just since the merger it without without any shadow of a doubt 83 Sixers 85 Celtic 85 Lakers 86 Celtics pick your Bulls team all go with 96 Bulls 01 Lakers 13 Heats 17 Warriors there’s seven a tier beneath them Walton’s Blazers an 87 Lakers 89 Pistons another pick your Bulls team 92 Bulls and the 97 Bulls 2,000 Lakers 03 Spurs 18 Warriors that now we’re at 15 I think you could add maybe another bird Celtics team Maybe another one of Isaiah’s Pistons teams was certainly one of the’ 07 Spurs are in the discussion and Brew what do all those teams have in come legendary not not Hall of Fame players not great Supporting Cast right legends that tier one group had Moses and Doc together magic and Kem together bird MJ Shaq and Kobe together LeBron Steph and KD together like give me a break I do not care and I like the metrics Brew I like the analytics I like a lot of it but as well I like to say it’s a rich tapestry it is it is a lot and you say this a lot when we talk goat stuff right brew that it is it can’t just be all of one or the other and I would just also say there has to be some common sense here has anyone who’s watched basketball this year anyone at this table or any table said you know what I think we’re watching one of the greatest teams of all time apparently some of the writers at the Boston and I respect these I know Bob Ryan’s an all time Legend Gary wasburn is my still he’s a great NBA writer I’m with you I’m with you it’s ridiculous now the only way I don’t care if they sweep Dallas I’m not I don’t think they’re an all-time great team all right the only way they could ever go down is an all time great team in my book is if they they become some type of Dynasty right they win it next year or they win three of the next four or what then then we’ll look back and and I will admit man some people saw it before I did all right but now totally agree bro no way first of all you had the easiest route ever to the finals that’s number one like Nick said they’ve got look Tatum and brown are going to be Hall of Famers you know assuming everything goes well Horford and Drew if they win this champion ship probably will be Hall of Famers if they win this Championship so you could say four and that to me that makes them closer to the 04 Pistons than to one of these alltime great teams because as you said every other team had a an upper echelon Superstar alltime Elite player usually at his Peak or right around his pe oh yeah absolutely and look they used that article was heavy on analytics all right and one of the ones they used was offensive rating the this Celtics team has the greatest offensive rating ever guess who had the second greatest this year’s Pacers it’s all based on the three-point shot and the pace seven of the top 10 rated offenses ever were this year yeah seven of them two of them were last year including Sacramento they didn’t they go out in the first round to Golden State I mean what are we talking and the Brooklyn Nets in 21 right one before that sorry to interrupt but the high as of 20 as of the pandemic season the greatest offense in league history was Luca in year two a Mavs team that lost in round one because again like it’s a lot of it’s a lot of factors so go ahead and so I did put together a list now what I did I didn’t do I didn’t break up these dynasties so some I so but just including the dynasties I got to 10 Jordan’s Bulls this is since the merger Steph KD Warriors Shaq and Kobe Lakers Showtime Lakers bird Celtics The Big Three heat the 83 Sixers the bad boy Pistons I fought between the bad boy Pistons and the 16 Cavs but I went with pistons because they went two and then Duncan first pick whichever team from those groups you got six of them from Jordan pick whichever you want I mean saying like there are four Bulls teams that would rock this Celtics I don’t even think this Celtics team the 86 birds or Celtics obviously I have ahead of them I think the 08 Celtics with garet Ray Allen and Paul be three alltime greats I’m taking them over this te and the 09 Lakers are close and the 2014 Spurs are close like those go ahead Wilds I you know any data to back it up or no yeah just all eye test and this guy is really good it’s all time great there’s no well but there’s not one one piece I there was one piece of the offensive raing that didn’t no that that that that skewed it but I you said all right it’s the easiest path the Pacers awesome offense this year Ty halberg is wild way better than the show so the easy path they went 12 and two they don’t we understand was an easy path all year because we look at margin of Victory and here’s best point per per game differential all time so this is not just offense this is because because they also have a great defense and according to you guys playing in an all-time era of great offense they’re plus 11 so they’re there with the all-time graes I’m not saying that they’re necessarily as good as the 96 Bulls but they’ve done everything they can on the court hold on so now we got if they win these four games here are teams with 80 wins they did it okay we could say that they didn’t do it we can say the era is soft I guess I don’t know the East was soft there was only one 50 win team in theast outside of okay that’s right well what do you want them to do about it like they’re winning games no they did they they all right and then how about Tatum I like Tatum’s not an alltime great he’s only not an alltime great because we say he’s not an all-time great and because he hasn’t won if all of a sudden he wins at age 26 and he’s faster than all these alltime Legends maybe we start viewing Tatum a little bit differently I think honestly it is a little bit of a marketing problem where you put up all those great teams and we have such good memories and the narratives are already formed and they’ve all got the bad boy Pistons and Showtime Lakers and the big three Celtics and the heedles and this is just like the Celtics without Marcus Smart it’s and this is what I put Columbus Ohio doesn’t feel like it has more people than Seattle or Denver but it does like buy the numbers you can say like it certainly doesn’t feel like it it feels like Seattle and Microsoft and Denver it’s you know the Rocky Mountains and Kors light but like Columbus like no we got more people what do you want us to do it’s just kind of the facts we’re there and so but that was cute so here’s the problem and I’m glad you mentioned you picked randomly I assume Denver is one of the Cities as of three weeks ago yeah you were adamant that this team couldn’t win the championship so how can you now all of those stats were already there they were all so do you think wait for one of the reasons because Denver went into Boston when they were on a 25 game win streak I say man if Denver can go into Boston in win then no one can beat Denver wrong but hold on so did you think do you think right honest honest opinion do you think this Celtics team is better than last year’s nuggets I don’t I don’t know I don’t so so was last year’s nuggets an alltime great team an alltime great team I would say probably not and you just said you don’t know if this your Celtics team is better than them so how can this be an alltime the the 64 wins is is doing a lot of work but then I remind you the 2022 Suns not the Suns team that went to the finals the Suns team that got beat by Luka won 64 games the 2019 Milwaukee Bucks they did not win the title lost to Toronto they they won 60 plus games the 2018 Houston Rockets won 65 they lost to Golden State and the 2018 Toronto Raptors won 160 they lost to Cleveland so what do all those teams have in common they had great regular seasons and they ran into in the playoffs a team with a legend where the Sun but if they win then here’s what I don’t like and it’s a little bit not to like it too in our how we discuss topics it’s a little bit like the Brock pie conversation like what more could the Celtics do be better they blew out every team historically win more games they’re one of one two three like a handful of teams that won 80 games there’s nothing they can do no to be called in all and I’ve said this about per as much as I’ve defended him I’ve said I want to see a little more like keep doing it and then he will definitely be considered get into a time machine and when next year Championship too no this I don’t think there’s there’s nothing they can do for me then that’s the problem this year okay then even there nothing you can do no even what you said was the reason the bad boy Pistons we’re looking back the showtime Lakers we’re looking back first of all even in that era we knew Isaiah Thomas was a legend we knew Magic Johnson were Legends we’re not Jason Tatum isn’t all-time great it’s just a a there’s levels to this he’s not on the upper tier of the all time great like all the other great team and and you said if I if they win if they keep winning and I’m not saying they got to win three straight or if but if they win next year or if they win the year after that and then the year after that like if they going to run sure we’ll look back and say that was an alltime great te but there’s no way right now not for none of these teams it was their first title except for the 83 Sixers it’s the only one who had been to three finals in the previous 5 years and then added Moses Moses Malone who was a three-time MVP in the previous 5 years the 85 Lakers that was magic and cream’s third title the 86 Celtics that was bird male’s third title the 96 bulls that was MJ and Pippen’s fourth title the 01 Lakers that was their backto back when they ran through everybody the 2013 heat that was their second title the 17 Warriors they won a title lost LeBron added Kevin Durant it is I happen to believe that the analytics stuff is so valuable and important and I also think at times analytics folks work against themselves because if you are going to prop use these numbers not you the generic you and use it to prop up and say guys I know what all of your instincts tell you and your whole history of watching basketball but we’re watching one of the greatest teams in NBA history then that makes people discount the analytics we’re not they could be deserving Champions and maybe they are about to start a run they are there is nothing this team can do to prove they’re one of the greatest teams ever because they’re not I mean then then it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy then there’s nothing they can do because they’re not like then you we’re not saying they can’t be Champions but I just think the Boston glob went overboard and saying they’re an all time great te this a serious question if they you said if they sweep they sweep Dallas and you’re saying Luca has a ceiling of top 10 and he gets swept by the Celtics and you look at it what’s the argument that they’re not other than they’re just not well one they don’t have exer tier all time great that’s so and if they prove if they win three in the next five years Jason Tayon will probably go down to something like if someone if when the this year if someone was making the argument going into the conference Championship weekend that this the Ravens team is arguably the greatest team in NFL history and he here’s why they’re more impressive than the 85 Bears and here’s why they’re more impressive than the 88 ners and here’s why and if your answer was no they’re not that’s okay like that’s some some of sports is I I the again people use this too often and I know we have to move on but the Supreme Court definition of obscenity I know it when I see it and I’m sorry I you think I’m being dismissive I I I I care and watch too much basketball for anyone to try to convince me that this team well here’s why they’re better than the 83 Sixers here’s why they’re better than the 86 Celtics they’re not I I just get frustrated where it’s like well this team there is no path to that yeah it’s a path going to become a dynasty yeah and then and then we’ll be like wow we were way the analytics had it right on this team but we didn’t we’ll see he’s in a great space he really is um Brew what would a second title mean for Kyrie well we talked yesterday the talk is what would he be one of the greatest if not the greatest wingmen in NBA history all right so that’s what’s on the line for Kyrie he’s it’s not his team he’s not the number one guy but he is a historic all-time great how great could depend on this this series um I made a graphic I made the top 10 wingman all time now a couple so Robins to a Batman top 10 Robins not wingman now not wingman like Top Gun or or Wing players go wingman and Robin aren’t the same we we it it was a little confus top 10 Robins but first the caveat these guys were not included cuz at times early on Magic was second to Kareem Kareem became second to Magic Kobe was second to Shaq uh Dr Jay was second to Moses when they won it but these are these guys were number ones for the majority of their career so they’re not included all right secondly I did only count teams that won championships because that’s what this is based so John Stockton’s not John Stockton is not in there because obviously they didn’t win the championship so here we go at number one obviously Scotty pipp right six titles nothing to argue about number two Dwayne W yes yes he two championships obviously is the wingman to LeBron um number three let me see this one Kevin M I would have had him too but I wasn’t thinking well he had a Robert Paris was battling they both put up big numbers uh number four this one will surprise you Nick clay the defense was great the defense was great in addition to being a top five shooter of all time number uh five yeah James worth okay all right Jame who was essentially the third guy for some of those championships but won the finals MVP in 80 89 88 uh number six Joe Dumars great defense MVP of the Pistons first championship average 27 points a game all right so uh number seven pal gasa backto back him and Kobe the Lakers were struggling till pal gets there and then they go back to back you could argue he could have been MVP of that last championship with the Lakers too all right number eight Tony Parker four championships was the leading score or or average was the lead score in their last championship in 14 but became the number one f and 0707 finals MVP and I I voted for him I was one of the voters that year uh number nine Robert Parish cuz they they really had a great two wingmen that seems unfair that’s how great like Parish was a consistent 19 and 10 through those three championships all right Mel was not right there his in that first championship and then and then number 10 Kyrie Irving if if they win now if I have him ahead of Anthony Davis all right because right now they both have one but Kyrie was huge obviously hit the big shot in the comeback in 2016 and heck they may have won in 15 had he not gotten hurt all right and that so he’s been hurt a lot and if he wins this one he’s making the most of his healthy years ad I you have to include injuries I got Kyrie low too because you have to include longevity as teammates so that’s I was going to ask things like that because so I think that if Kyrie had retired after the 2017 season and then come back this year I’d have him hire but when he like the idea of like wingman is like you’re helping a you know you’re the great co-star to this you know Superstar to win a championship when you pull the rip court on that partnership and then are not a good wingman in Brooklyn for you know a multitude of reasons that kind of hurts your legendary wingman status I do think I don’t want to parse every bit of the list I would had Parker a little higher but I think if they win Clay versus Kyrie is an interesting discussion because we saw them in I guess two finals or no three finals together but the first one Kyrie got Hur a game in so throw it out and the second one Kyrie needed to be the second best player while Klay only had to be the third best player cuz it was when they have Durant and then the one where Kay was second best they lost right when the one where the Kay was second best they lost clay to me has two championships as the second guy in uh 15 and in 22 if Kyrie does it and he has it as well now he doesn’t have the Vibes of clay obvious doesn’t have the defense but also average a better scorer in the postseason is Kyrie so that’s like a unique one what’s up Wilds I just don’t I don’t see Kyrie as a wingman what do you mean I just don’t see you jumped on us for eye test this is his point he’s trying to he’s trying to I don’t yeah one of the rules you can’t be millions of people’s favorite player and be a wingman Paul George people some people think Paul George is a goat so you can you can be that he’s everyone’s favorite millions of people like he’s my number one favorite player now he thanks for watching subscribe here to get more from the show and to check out clips from other shows on FS1

Nick Wright, Kevin Wildes and Chris Broussard discuss the latest news in the NBA including the Boston Celtics place amongst the greatest teams in NBA History. The First Things First crew also decide if Dallas Mavericks guard Kyrie Irving is a Top 10 wingman of all-time.

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Celtics challenge Jordan’s Bulls, Heat Big 3 & Kyrie Top 10 Wingman Ever? | NBA | FIRST THINGS FIRST

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