Trade Updates, Coaching Hunt and more! Cleveland Cavaliers news – The Junkyard

Trade Updates, Coaching Hunt and more! Cleveland Cavaliers news – The Junkyard

on today’s weekly recap we discussed the Cleveland Cavaliers ongoing hunt for a new head coach Kobe alman’s reported willingness to keep the core for together and how much influence does Donovan Mitchell have over the team’s decision-making this summer and before we start if you enjoy the junkyard pod please consider hitting subscribe and dropping a like it goes a long way toward supporting the channel and we truly appreciate it now let’s get into this this is the moment we’ve all been waiting for for the thousands in and the millions watching around the [Applause] world let’s get [Applause] [Music] ready welcome to the junkyard pod hosted by Tony pesta Jackson Flickinger and Corey Walsh today we have another weekly recap for you guys but first let me ask my co-host how their week has been going Jackson I know there was some some Star Wars content coming out that you got to check out have you been enjoying it how how was your week man yeah light is great everybody needs to go watch it or at least someone needs to go watch it so we can talk about it because these two idiots won’t watch it so please people in the comments talk to me about the acolyte unless you’re one of those people who were like Star Wars is too woke then just you know don’t even comment like please well if I was on George Lucas’s Rolodex for personal invites maybe I would have watched it with a sneak peek screening like Jackson did but no I’ll be watching it like a common person on Disney Plus at a 2B determined time you know Jackson that I only watch the spin-offs I refuse to watch the main source Cory’s the weirdest person in Al please name the Star Wars content that you’ve seen well let’s see uh I watched obviously Mandalorian because you know who and their mother hasn’t watched it Tony ped Pascal Gru Tony I’m I’m a big fan of baby Yoda and Pedro Pascal but I have not seen the Mandalorian seen the Menace so I’ve seen more of the main uh stories than pory but he’s got me beat there so I also watched Boba Fett on Disney plus that was terrible I I watched uh the half of the Obi-Wan show before I got just forgot about it and uh yeah that I watched about 17 episodes of The Clone Wars in 17 I was like this is a lot to follow because I went through the order that they say you should go through not like the season episode by episode because they say it’s not linear if you watch it like this is just the weirdest thing I’ve ever I’ve ever heard in my life this is ridicul by ticking Jackson off with by hitting hitting close to home he’s acting like I said everything Star Wars came out with is terrible no I mean that’s I mean it’s just it’s just weird Behavior like I uh I Stray From the norm I mean come on you should respect it because when this was first brought up it was like yeah I’ve seen the Mandalorian and it’s like oh yeah you know like that’s popular people like that baby Yoda’s everywhere like you know that kind of makes sense and it’s like and I’ve seen some Kenobi I was like oh yeah I mean I I love Kenobi but like you know it’ll kind of only make sense if you’ve seen the movies and then you throw in like this whole Clone Wars things and it’s like that that’s where you lose me it’s it’s like when I went to go see Avengers and game without seeing any of the prior Marvel movies and there’s like there’s like things where people are like oh my God like oh that’s a deep cut or something and I’m like why is everyone standing up when he grabs the hammer like why is that a big deal it’s tears in your eyes I did when he said Avengers Assemble I’m like I’ve heard that before said yeah that’s why we’re here we’re watching that movie they’re assembling I’m glad you guys are both having uh strong starts to your week that that that wasn’t much of a recap more of a a rambling but I’m gonna try and bring it back together here with my transition because I started reading Tony how was your week book right here it’s been going good I’ve been outside and I started reading Dune and you know what the Cavs they may be looking for their lisan algib as well because AKA they voice from the outer world since Jackson has not seen Dune too seen D he hasn’t seen the second one yet which how dare you shame on you but it’s four hours of beauty it it really is and hopefully that transition hits because the Cavs have been searching for a new head coach of course last month they decided to part ways with JB bicker staff and we all agreed on our episode back then that that I think it was a successful coaching scent for JB all things considered it was just time for both sides to move on so here we are the Cavs are speed dating 10 different coaches it sounds like uh they’ve lined up a handful of interviews with guys such as Johnny Bryant Chris Quinn David Adelman was announced today James bergo Kenny ainson and mic a Nory who all could bring something fresh to the Cavaliers Jackson I want to start with you because I know you have strong feelings about this uh we discussed this a little bit in that previous episode do you have a favorite of this Bunch was there perhaps an entire Manifesto written on one of these candidates uh yes James burgo he’s the guy anybody else I’m going to be disappointed I think James bgo is exactly what this team needs um he is somebody who got the most out of like the most offensive ability out of the least offensive talent that I’ve kind of you know that we’ve seen in recent history um and you know like he’s some who kemell Walker’s best year happened when he was the one- year James brego was the coach Lonzo bald looked like he was going to become the next face of the league after his first two years where James B his coach thank you thank you lamelo ball looked like that um Devonte Graham looked like he was a like a solid starting NBA player and and he made that back court work with Terry Rosier in the sense that like Devonte Graham and Terry Rosier were working together in tandem not just kind of like doing their own thing and it produced a passable offense which is just insane and going back and reading some of the things about you know I talked in my article for fear of the sword which Tony mentioned thank you um I talked about kind of like the X’s and O’s things that he does well to kind of free up uh his best players but one of the things that’s kind of interesting is looking back and reading what Charlotte fans an analyst thought about the firing at the time and a lot of them were like well he’s not getting the most out of this group he’s not playing the young guys like JT Thor enough he’s not doing you know like he can’t like like this is a really promising group he just can’t get them over the hump and it’s like in hindsight that looks incredibly stupid because it’s like yeah of course he wasn’t playing these young guys these young guys aren’t very good like I don’t know why you thought that this core was some was like some you know the next Golden State Warriors or something like that that’s you know destined for playoff greatness like this is a pretty mediocre group where there’s really only one good player in lamelo ball and it’s just it kind of just all makes like it it just makes too much sense this team needs an offensive like a new offensive philosophy and he’s the guy who I think could do it I think I think he would make it work if uh Garland and Mitchell were here but I think he can make it if it was just one of the other two yeah I think those are all fair points and you’ve done a good job selling me on him because I haven’t really attached myself to any candidate but you do a good job with that pitch Corey do you have a favorite uh of this group here I feel like I’m stuck in two different uh bins here because if it’s not bgo he’s probably the only veteran head coach that I really like out of the group but I also like in the Kenny Atkinson versus the field kind of uh debate I feel like I’d rather the cat take a swing on an unproven coach because outside of bgo I don’t really like the resumés of like with Atkinson I just like I I kind of agree with what uh Chris wrote for fear of the sword as well in his debrief of Kenny Atkinson’s career thus far where he hasn’t really been tasked with a roster that’s similar to what the Cavs have now I mean he was a part of the KD Kyrie Nets until they both decided they just didn’t like him probably because he was coaching the same way he was when he wasn’t coaching Superstars and this Cavs team while they’re not the uh KD Kyrie level of os in the locker room I still think he is a guy who he kind of feels like a JB equivalent to me where he can help you get to a certain point but I don’t think we’ve seen him prove that he can take a team to the next level he’s proving he can take a team to the like what to the Nets got with the D’Angelo Russell season where they were good enough to outweigh or outplay what they probably should have been with some of their parts but faltered I really just think even though it isn’t what you really want with Donovan Mitchell to take a swing on an assisant coach off of successful coaching staff like with Mike Nori or Adelman that you even though it’s not the sexiest thing to do it it just is installing a system that you know is going to work for other teams and just hoping that this coach can carry that Success Through to the Cavs so if it’s not bgo I’d just rather it be a completely fresh face than just recycling the NBA fodder we hear year after year one thing that’s really interesting I think is that all these guys that Tony mentioned are all like have a lot of background in Player Development and obviously that’s one of the things that coaches come in and they you know one of the first things they do is Player Development but I think it’s interesting that like everyone on the list is that’s kind of their thing like if you look at like Johnny Bryant it’s like this is like the Player Development guy and like James Breo has a strong history with Player Development Kenny ainson has a strong history with Player Development and that kind of tells me that like they’re not really happy with the way things have gone with with Garland and Moy and that’s you know because you would think that a team that won 50 games and then won just under 50 games and got to the second round you’d be thinking of like all right we need like a proven coach that’s just going to go out there and like amplify everything and take us to the next level as opposed to a guy who’s more so Player Development so not saying it’s a wrong move but I think it’s really telling yeah I agree and I do want to shift gears here a little bit to flip it and talk about who would be our least favorite of the group if anyone has any uh candidates for that but on the ainson point because he’s the first one to me who I agree with Corey I would rather try something different uh but then the more I looked into it actually changed my tune a little bit he’s not my favorite of the bunch but he’s an interesting pick because of that strength and Player Development which Jackson mentioned is is still something the Cavs should be interested in when you have Moi Arland even a quarrow potentially another rookie coming in this year through the draft and the other thing about ainson is that he is an advocate for that free flowing off ball movement offense uh he’s a warriors prodig uh there’s a quote in that Chris uh that Chris wrote for fear of the sword his story on uh ainson about how ainson wants to push his best players harder than anyone else on the roster instead of coddling them I think that’s something that some of these Cavs guys could benefit from uh thinking of Garland here especially not to say that he’s been coddled in the past I don’t know for sure but it seems like maybe there’s some habits that are dying hard and if they could bring a guy in to really force them out of that and even like to focus on Evan Moy hey let’s throw him into the fire put him at Center I think ainson is a guy who might be more willing to do that than JB was so I think the team could benefit from both of those things but I’ll start off with my least favorite of the group and then I’ll pass it to you guys I want to be clear I’m not saying that I would hate this move by any means in fact I I don’t know enough about this candidate to really say he’s my least favorite but he’s just the one that would concern me and it’s Johnny Bryant just because I know that all I know about him is that he’s well regarded which is a good thing but he has ties to Donovan Mitchell and that’s where my concern would come is if the Cavs are doing this simply because they want to appease Mitchell that would be and it’s something we will talk later in the episode about his influence but that would concern me a bit because while yes they should wait Mitchell as a factor uh getting the best available coach should be the mission and maybe Bryant is that guy maybe he is the best guy for the job but I’m just worried that if you falter and Miss on this decision I think of the Nang signing as an example of you know we want to make Donovan Mitchell happy so we’ll go get his guy it could work out it’s just something that worries me a little bit although again I want to be clear Johnny Bryant could end up being a fantastic coach he could be a great assistant I don’t know enough about it but where do you guys land on all this I think Bryant is a good thing to bring up um and I’ve been doing like a little bit of reading about him and people like around the Knicks really like him and yeah people kind of were like well maybe he could be somebody that the Knicks look at if they moved on from thibs obviously that’s that’s not that’s not happening right now um but it does show that he is more than just like Donovan Mitchell’s friend but I do think it’s an awkward position to put him in if everyone know know like if the Cs were to hire him as the head coach and he’s kind of like brought in as like this is Donovan Mitchell’s guy I think it’s really hard to establish bayin from everybody when they know the same things that we do so I think that even if Bryant is a good coach I think it’s just a tough it would be a tough position for him yeah I think anytime that the leading sentence from like a w tweet says close uh with Donovan Mitchell candidate Johnny ran you’re immediately thinking that there’s just going to be some catering to Mitchell and then like Jackson’s also saying with the players there like either this guy is gonna try to go out of his way early to be like yeah I’m not just Donovan Mitchell’s friend and be like I’m gonna be harder on him than I am on most the fact that he’s gonna be that like players are going to closely look at that relationship between the two and there’s always gonna be some side eyeing going around I feel like when that relationship is pre-established I feel like as weird as it sounds I don’t I think Kenny Atkinson would be my least favorite in the sense that I feel like he is the safe pick and I think the Cavs if they’re going for the safe pick are just not doing what the purpose of the JB firing was keeping JB is the safe move and by moving off of JB they officially decided that they didn’t really want to play it safe much longer because you probably would have rinse and repeated last season to this season and that’s what the safe option is and if you’re trying to shake it up you’re clearly not trying to keep things the way they were before and Atkinson is just like I said before he’s like kind of recite he’s been like a name that’s been circling for the past offseason since he was removed from the Nets and if you’re just gonna go to the next the like the safe option being like well you know he’s a different voice but he’s I don’t really consider him a floor raiser for this team it’s more I would expect the same just in a different style because obviously he’s not the defensive minded coach that JB is but he’s also not the mind that I feel like will take this Cavs to a different level bgo is between the two the one I feel like that’s more of a a risky but it makes sense of a swing because even though ainson pushes his players like Jackson highlighted this well in his article that ball just didn’t ball had his best season despite him not having the most opportunities he had in his career under bgo and I feel like that type of like hard ass mentality for the coaching would really help not only for responses from the veterans but it will be a good kind of shock to the young players like Moy and Garland who even though they’ve obviously developed over time it’s not like they’ve really been challenged I feel like by this staff you constantly hear JB defend these players say how they’re doing well BGA wouldn’t be the type of Coach to come out and be like yeah Garland’s just not at the three-point volume we want Mo’s not as aggressive as we want him to be and I feel like Atkinson even though he does push his players I feel like would do relatively the same just because it’s unfamiliar situation for him I think that’s a really good point to bring up and that’s something that brego has been known to kind of rub some people the wrong way and this is kind of a kind of like all basketball teams have a lot of ego but I think the Cavs in particular are a team with a lot of ego and a lot of you know like we’ve seen at times like Kobe Alman has rubbed people the wrong way and it seems like it’s a it’s a situation that could if turned ugly it could turn really ugly and that’s you know really not what you want so I do kind of get those concerns like I don’t get the concerns about like not playing young players or like the defense was bad because it’s like you have Mason plumbley and Montes Herold as your backline what do you expect yeah you guys both made excellent points there uh and you know let’s keep in mind that any of these candidates could join the coaching staff as an assistant that’s something that I’ve seen floated uh I will say I don’t think it makes I don’t know how much sense it makes for the candidates themselves I feel like they would almost rather just stay where they are but it does make a ton of sense for the Cavs to clean house and start fresh uh top to bottom with the coaching staff or at least bring in some new voices uh and so I think this is a natural place to transition to a comment from our Guy Brian Windor who said that Donovan Mitchell has the most influence in the NBA this summer he says Mitchell Mitchell holds even more influence over the Cavs than LeBron James holds over over the Lakers I think this is an interesting conversation to have because on one hand yes the Cavs absolutely will aim to structure their moves this summer and maximiz around maximizing Donovan Mitchell at least that’s what I think they should be doing but Mitchell has never been the type of guy from what we’ve seen from reports he’s never been the guy to make demands of his front office and so I think it’s important to keep in mind that aside from rare cases I don’t think NBA stars want to be in charge of those decisions it’s not their job there’s a reason why someone like Kobe Alman exists he’s the one who’s here to build the roster it’s not on Mitchell to make these decisions and I don’t think he wants that responsibility uh this was even supported by Wendy himself earlier saying this year that it would probably annoy Mitchell if he felt the Cavs were making decision solely based on his feelings and so I’ll post two questions to Cory how much should the Cavs prioritize building around Mitchell this summer and how much influence is Mitchell truly going to wield I feel like the Cavs have to kind of push this PR out that yes Mitchell is the center of this team’s Universe right now because we’re still in an ongoing situation where the Cavs are trying to retain Donovan Mitchell and if you go out there and saying like we’re GNA build a team independently of Mitchell in the like kind of hedging your bets then Mitchell like even though Mitchell is not gonna public go out there and say like yes I want the team to do what I deem is fit if they do a move that upsets him he can’t just act like it’s not going to play into the plans down the road like you kind of have to play Both Sides if you’re Mitchell here and Mitchell from what I can tell obviously don’t know the guy we’re not close like that uh that he’s not the type of guy that wants to ruffle feathers with anything he’s saying he’s never going to be the one who just kind of stands on the soap box and says why he’s unhappy in a situation he didn’t do it in Utah He’s not gonna probably continue that in Cleveland even though obviously him getting out there and saying these things to pressure the organization to an organization that’s very accustomed to being pressured by their star player to make moves it it would make sense but I don’t think the Cavs need like Mitchell is a like a player that’s kind of awkward to build around in the sense because we haven’t really determined what kind of roster you need for Mitchell to take a team to the next level Utah hit a plateau while trying to constantly build around Mitchell and you really can only make certain amount of moves with Mitchell he’s a smaller guard we don’t really see that type of template translate in the modern NBA to winning titles so there’s nothing to really go off of um so yeah it’s a very interesting situation for the Cavs and for Mitchell to see how this actually plays out and how much power he actually has it’s like there’s a couple ways you can like decipher what Wendy was saying there and I think one of the ways is that the Cavs traded their like they don’t have a first round pick until 2030 and they can’t trade a first round pick fully until the 2031 pick unless they make other moves uh like to make a first round pick available again so it’s just like if one person if you gave up that much for one person and they’re not under a contract for next year or like for the following year after that they’re going to have a lot of power whether they want it or not so I don’t think it’s a situation where Mitchell is demanding what should be done or anything like that in in a way that LeBron has done or at least given off the perception that he does so I don’t think it’s that big of a deal I think it’s just kind of more of the circumstances surrounding the team and that’s something that you know Mitchell can’t really control he wasn’t the one who said they should you know give up all of your first round picks until 2029 or control of all your first round picks until 2029 for me so it’s just kind of the situation that Cavs put themselves in and I think if you know Mitchell signed a a five-year contract this becomes a lot different conversation yeah I think that’s an important distinction to make because the way that it was framed of course Twitter is its own place it was framed as if Mitchell is going to be calling the shots uh much like we assume we have the perception of LeBron doing that um and I think there is a a distinction to make in that the Cavs are absolutely going to approach this summer with the mindset of how do we build around Mitchell satisfy him keep him in Cleveland and maximize whatever Championship win we might have versus something like Mitchell saying hey I’ll stay if you do this like I don’t think he’s going to be giving them conditions it’s more so I think he has influence over them because I mean he’s their star player and they want he he is their Championship window whatever it is it it basically relies on him and probably Evan moley um and so moving into our final topic today we have a report from Jake fiser of Yahoo sports suggesting that the Cavs don’t appear motivated to listen to trade offers for members of their core four uh the report says that Kobe Alman is showing a willingness to keep this group together uh even in spite of some external pressure to split them up so I have a couple questions in regard to this starting with whether or not it would be a good idea to keep the the core together and also is this kind of just some PR talk for the Cavs to maintain leverage or Jackson do you believe the Cavs are really content with running it back for another season oh I’m going to flip this on what do you think Tony I think it’s mostly PR talk I think Kobe Alman genuinely would be okay with running it back but I think he’s checking out all the available options I I don’t think he is just oh no we’re fine we’re gonna run it back next summer no matter what or next season no matter what I think he’s doing this because really I can’t I’ll put it this way I can’t see a reason why or how it would benefit the Cavs for Kobe to Signal otherwise if there was a sign that this was a fire sale then your value just diminishes if you know that the team is panicking and trying to move off of the score four it’s a lot harder to get the deal that you want and so to answer your question I do believe that some of it is PR talk but I also I also think that Kobe is telling the truth in that he would be content with running this four four back yeah that’s kind of where I’m at to where like I don’t think he wants to run this core team back but I don’t think he’s going to trade you know Jared for K kma just to say hey we got we got rid of Jared Allen I don’t time if he would be sum League highlights those were crazy I mean he does always score like 25 points when he plays the Cavs so maybe maybe there is something about Cleveland but so like I don’t think he’s going to make a move just to make a move and it’s just it’s really tough with the Jared Allen situation because Jared Allen is better than what his value has been and that’s something that has always been the case that’s the reason why the cats were able to get him for a late Milwaukee Bucks first round pick and that’s why it’s really tough to trade him now because it’s like you’re not going to get you’re probably not going to get Jared Allen production in a Jared Allen trade and that’s that’s the problem you know the Jared Allen trade feels more like you’re shaking the snow globe type of Ideal or it’s like I don’t like how these this team has played in this layout let’s just switch it up and it’s always it’s not like they’re going to trade Jared Allen for another Center they’re going to trade Jared Allen for either a three or four that at least shakes up the way that the scheme has been going for this Cavs team going forward I’d like to think that Kobe Alman is like this is BAS I feel this is just me personally no sourcing whatsoever I’ve read that I feel like this is a Do or Die season for Kobe Alman and if he feels like he wants to Hitch himself to the core four again for another season I feel like that is UN like probably unlikely I feel like it’s more likely than not that this team is going to get shaken up and I feel like it is probably gonna be Jared Allen that goes even though there’s all this Darius that whole Darius Garland is his uh team is pressuring the Cavs with a situation where he’s gonna leave because you’ll I think they feel like if any of these through four are the most replaceable even though Jared Allen is a defensive player of the year candidate so like at least in the running for the award that it would probably be Jared Allen just because especially after what we’re seeing with this Dallas team with how the centers are impacting their lineups so much that that’s probably going to be a trend that teams are gonna be like we got to get these re Rim running bigs that can stretch the floor and they could stay on the floor in a postseason setting and that if anything will probably make Jared Allen’s value higher than it even is right now because this is just a copycat league and if the Mavericks prove successful against the Celtics not even win the series but show that St def oh okay this coming I also said like two episodes ago that the Celtics were going to lose to we were going to forget about that I still think about that every day I forgot about it yeah I remember I think of it every day but that’s just me uh yeah no I feel like I I really well every NBA GM is also gonna listen to every phone call like even though it was kind of framed like yeah they’re not even like entertaining it’s like Kobe Alman is picking up the phone he doesn’t see the Rockets call and goes like skip I don’t even want to hear what they have to say I mean if if it is the Rockets I mean that you might as well do that the number three pick you don’t want uh Alexander SAR I hear he’s like is mobile I mean that’s that’s what top tier talent in this draft gets one one attribute he can move they’re athletic yeah turns out this guy’s an athlete but yeah if Kobe alman’s hanging up that’s a whole separate kind of problem so I get bet you he’s listening and I I feel very confident that there’s going to be some kind of shake up because I feel like they just can’t play it safe I will say that if you got the right coach I think this could be a lot better and I think that’s a lot of where these issues come from because we probably should have done that last year right like that’s that’s what we’ve been saying we’ve been saying they’re like a year behind every at every turn and that’s where that’s where it’s like you know where you saw this team you saw this team ceiling and you saw where was bumping into the wall last year with like hey like we can’t just Spam High pick and rolls and you know garin’s not moving off ball Mitchell’s not moving off ball like there are things you can do with a team that has very bad spacing you know like Mitchell and Garland aren’t clay and Steph but but the Golden State Warriors don’t have like Shooters at every position you know like that’s not that’s they play two non- shooting players all the time I’ve been preaching this forever yeah and I mean they not two non- shooting bigs but two non- shooting players and they’ve been do and you know they want a championship playing that way you know and that it’s you know I don’t I don’t want to extend the metaphor too far but there’s there are ways to create space that aren’t like we have to have five guys who can shoot like like not like not everybody’s the Boston Celtics and you don’t need to try to be the Boston Celtics you need to be the best version of yourself and the Cavs haven’t been that on the offensive end so you could talk me into if you have the right coach who knows how to organize the offense a lot better that you can get a better version of this of this core but you know it’s just really tough to talk yourself into that after seeing what we’ve seen the last two years yeah and to that point I can’t remember who tweeted it but I saw it today and they said something along the lines of a lot of people want the team to be worse in order to have a more traditional looking roster rather than just finding a way to make their talent work now I still think there’s a case that they could get better if they make a trade it all just comes down to what the package is um in the past I’ve been fully against any of those moves that would be considered lateral you know that I still kind of Stand By not wanting to make a move just for the sake of making a move but this is like the most pressure you can face before the pipes burst if the Cavs don’t make a move this summer and things don’t get better then this kind of just comes crashing down in a manner that you have no control over at that point because everyone’s going to know that you’re trying to move on from Allen Garland whatever like this core four is you’re in deep trouble if it if you stick to it and it doesn’t work or if you even backslide uh so I think this is a genuine turning point for the franchise not to be dramatic but I think how they approach this summer it’s gonna determine a lot of uh whatever Championship window they have uh they need to make the right move the problem is I don’t think the right move is as clear as many people think it might be I think there’s a lot of gambling that’s going to happen here you could make a case for many different options I I think you could make a case for keeping the core together and trying to figure a way out to make this work with a different coach but I also see why you would want to switch it up and the last thing that I want to say here look back through recent NBA history and try to find how many times a team has detonated their Foundation like this and improved as a result it’s just not something that you see mainly because it’s it’s rare that a team who’s kind of close to contending like the Cavs will just dismantle their Foundation to begin with uh but it’s even more rare in those cases that it results in a positive one example that I can think of is Toronto swinging for kawi Leonard but that’s a bold exception and basically what I’m trying to say is I understand Kobe’s cautious approach because detonating your whole Foundation like this trading two of your key players it’s very very difficult to actually improve as a result of that it’s like the Cavs are just a really weird team in a really weird situation and yeah you could talk me into a lot of things and I I do think that like one of the things that you brought up is that hey if you know you brought it back then everyone knows that you have to trade Garland that’s fine it doesn’t matter if everyone knows you have to trade a certain player it’s if you have to trade a certain player and there’s only the Pelicans who are calling you about it that’s when you know you’re like one team like that Ingram mid-range pull-ups it’s gonna be Brandon Ingram pull-ups and kma post-ups so that’s where that’s where I’m saying it’s like you can keep it going if people want Garland like if people talk themselves into Garland like if Garland shows that he’s the 2022 and 2023 version of himself and not the 2024 one then you can still make a good move so I do want to push back a little bit against that but I do get what you’re saying where things become a lot more combustible when you’re staying status quo and like if they were to start next season you know five and seven or something like that I think back like even before December of the last season how close it was to everything just kind of crumbling right and that’s where there can be issues so I do get that but that’s just kind of why I really wish that the Cavs you know moved on from bigger staff uh prior to this previous season I feel like the this is like probably a separate topic but the Cavs are on like two teetering like bombs pretty much between Allan and Garland because it feels like G like if you had to tell me a year from now the Cavs either stay the same or they regress and they have to move one of the two I feel like Allen’s value is like Jackson said not that high but it also doesn’t have its basement value is still I feel like it’s not as far of a drop as what Garland could be if like let’s say the Cavs don’t move him this SE this offseason where despite the struggles this season all the reporting that’s coming out is that Garland still has serious like cach a in the league and if Garland repeats the performance that we saw this past season again I feel like the fall and value from this offseason to next offseason is a sharp drop and then you’re gonna be suck with the situation where it feels like you’re just offloading his contract because it is a pretty especially with these aprons I mean teams are G to be much more hesitant to take that swing on Garland’s contract than an affordable Allen contract where you kind of know what he’s going to bring to the table because you just like the reason I feel the Cs would trade Allen is more because he’s just more movable than Garland not necessarily in that situation because he’s less talented so it just feels like Kobe’s kind of like playing with fire if he doesn’t move one the most important thing I think an organization can do is self evaluate like know what you have on the roster and understand their value and I think that’s something that I feel like the Cs have sort of struggled with in terms of like they didn’t know how to counteract the issues that they were going to run into and they didn’t like you look at like it’s really easy to point to like Heart Like hartenstein and Lowry Markin and playing really good once they leave but it’s like did the Cav know that they were this caliber a player when they sent them out or not and that’s where that’s where I think if you’re going to call in the question this front office I think that’s where you’re going to have to do it yeah and I I have one more bonus question to get to but I do want to Circle back real quick to something Corey was saying because I just thought of this uh yeah Darius his this season definitely tanked some of his value but it sounds like it’s still very very high the concern is if he has another season like this it might really tank and I think of Someone Like Jordan p as an example of that where he has that season with golden state and you can make a lot of excuses for why he played so poorly and he still had some trade value now Jordan PO is like one of the worst contracts in the league no one wants to touch that with SH Cooper look like they’re I’m not saying yeah I’m not saying that Darius is anywhere near that I’m just saying it’s it’s crazy how quickly things can change and so that’s a potential downfall of sticking with Darius now I’m in the camp of I want to keep Darius if you can so take take that with a great of salt I mean I feel like I’ve been skeptical of Garland throughout this whole season and that is just a wild you threw out there I just want to be clear I’m not comparing the two I’m just talking about the way value can change you literally compare the two but that’s fine I see the narrative to what he’s saying though because it wasn’t like when Golden State gave P that contract like with Darius you didn’t second guess it whatsoever P looked like he fit into his role and then when they even when he got traded to uh Washington it felt like it was more a they had to decide between Draymond and keeping the core together or moving pool it wasn’t even like pool sucks we got to move off of pool the Wizards didn’t realize what they were absorbing and they’re like wow when pool’s not surrounded by generational Talent it turns out this dude looks pretty uh pretty suboptimal for a team that is gonna be like hey take the keys Jordan and see what you got and it turns out Jordan wants to drive by himself quite frequently I mean to be fair the Wizards are like the worst run basketball team yeah ever there’s never a player in the league I feel like that needs more structure in an organization than Jord the dude ooes confidence but I think but like to go back to like the comparison that Tony made that he’s saying he didn’t make I just basically I was just saying one bad year you can excuse you can’t get fooled twice okay so if it happens the second time it’s gonna it would be a lot more difficult to trade Darius uh again I I think Darius is very good and I think he’s willing to bounce back I think that’s kind of where you have to get to are darius’s problems because he’s not a good basketball player or his problems because he’s not fitting well with Donovan Mitchell and I think that’s where you have to make a determination because if it’s you know Garland’s not that good of a player then obviously you have to trade him but if you think it’s because Garland doesn’t fit with Mitchell but is a very good player I think you can still hold on to him because that’s still going to shine through even if you know even if like 3 plus 3 is equaling five and not six with the Mitchell and Garland pairing you’re at least going to see that you know Garland is worth something can it be possible that two things can be true though where we know that Garland’s player but he can’t just be riding uh being the Batman to someone or Robbin to someone’s Batman like with the Mitchell situation because we saw Garland play well independently on his own and then it felt like in the first season we were seeing steps to where we wouldn’t really leave that season being like Garland can’t be the second fiddle to Mitchell and then we see this season like I feel like saying that Garland’s uh determining how talented he is as a player correlates to playing alongside Mitchell I feel like both things can be true it just is an awkward fit but a talented player ality than skill thing I think that’s where the they’re looking at all these Player Development coaches really speaks to like how they view Garland and Mooby how they view whether or not they’ve hit their ceiling because it’s like if they had hit their ceiling you’re not looking for Player Development guys yeah and I think this this ties back into kind of what I was saying with the difficulty of making a trade now is that you know what you have in Darius and Donovan you know that it’s a very very skilled and talented back court the the fit has been a bit awkward but I think there’s enough reason there to believe you can make it work under the right circumstances and so do you put all your chips into trying to get the most out of that or do you take a chance on something else now speaking of taking a chance and this is my bonus question I want to hit on really really quick uh because it’s something that was floated out there and I know Jackson has strong feelings on it uh a certain Paul George has been linked in some hypothetical Cavs trades now let’s get this part out of the way first it would have to be a sign in trade that makes things much more complicated for everyone involved but all things being possible Jackson uh what do you make of the PG-13 speculation it’s stupid um like I know that people don’t like Brandon Ingram but Brandon Ingram is better than I think people think he is and I also think that while Paul George is better than Brandon Ingram in 2024 you can’t make a trade that sends away like Garland and Allen and get a 34 year old unless that 34 yearold is going to significantly raise this team ceiling to the point where they’re going to be a championship level team and I don’t think you think slightly on this I don’t think it’s possible I don’t think the trade will happen and I wouldn’t I wouldn’t sign a petition for it but if it happened I would talk myself into it pretty easily because I think probably one of the best three and you talk yourself inma no I couldn’t yes you could I’m not I’m not a big fan of kma or Ingram on the on the tradem market I think so like the problem is you’re going to have to if you were to get Paul George you’re going to have to operate tighter into that like three star model where all three of your stars have to really fit and you’re going to have to pull in like guys that really fit around them so if you were to do that you’re looking at like you know Isaac aoro needs to take a huge step forward you know like you have Max dreu you have you know like it’s really tough to make that type of system work in today’s NBA unless you have mega stars and Paul George is not meast star in 2024 Donovan Mitchell isn’t and I don’t know if their games fit well enough together where you could actually talk yourself into it like you’re not this isn’t like people forget how how good Kevin Love was and how good Kyrie Irving and LeBron well people don’t forget how good krie and LeBron were but like they were immensely talented players and I don’t know if like it’s just really tough to get this model to work and it’s a lot easier to be the Phoenix Suns than it is to be you know who I think Devon Booker is better than anybody who would be on the Cavs like it’s easier think could argue Donovan but like okay if if you were to power rank George KD Donovan and Booker well the thing their problem their problem was the beal trade in my opinion they first off I think they gave up a little too much for Durant and then they said screw it we’re gonna we’re gonna take it to the next level and go for Beal for some reason ably Mitchell Paul George Trio I think is pretty dang good there’s obviously setbacks health concerns the age like listen you would be taking a big big swing and a huge risk but if you’re gonna trade Garland and Allen for anybody I could talk myself into PG being the guy but I probably wouldn’t make that decision you don’t have your draft pick until 2030 what is Paul George gonna look like in 2030 well probably not I couldn’t tell you I mean you probably is just signed to JJ recks nwor yeah well JJ reic who knows listen I just I think in theory like if you’re trying to maximize the championship window I could talk myself into it I again I want to be so clear I’m not signing up for it not advocating for it I’m just saying I I would be able to talk myself into it I know that you you are very much against it I understand why like if it was like hey you’re trading them for LeBron James who is still a top 10 to top five LEL play you’re really puning on everything LeBron James one year basically LeBron James is better than Paul George you could talk me into LeBron James being better than Paul George in 2030 now okay yeah like right now LeBron right now yeah but like LeBron is like he’s gonna be pushing 50 man yeah but like like I’m just saying if Bryce is going to be in the league if they if they both wanted to play in 2030 I would put a lot of money on LeBron James being better than Paul George and like like a ridiculous to say this one well Che this out if they’re both playing in 2030 we would definitely be able to prove this one yeah I don’t think I don’t think we care but it’s just like like so like if you were to get somebody like LeBron who I think would make this a championship level team I think then it’s like hey let’s do that because you know this team currently has a long Runway but I don’t know if they have a championship Runway if you get Paul George I don’t think this team has a championship Runway and it definitely doesn’t have a long Runway anymore so that’s where I think all of your issues are going to be coming from and it’s just like yeah you could talk yourself into it and I think you would have a fun next two seasons but I don’t know what that looks like afterwards I think it’d be pretty ironic if the Cavs were like you know we’ve had some pretty injury riddled Seasons the past two years why don’t we just go for one of the players who is injured more often than not and Paul George who he’s might not be out for like long stretches but the guy takes like weeks off due to like random sprains or anything and then you put all your chips in and then you have a skeleton crew of a roster because you moved everything in and then it becomes wow Moy and Mitchell for 60 plus games but then you get a few guest appearances by Paul George cross your fingers for postseason time and then that contract runs out and then you’re like wow and now we’re stuck with a terrible contract Tony if we’re talking about I will say he has been he has been healthy in the playoffs recently though well he miss he misses a lot of games but he has played in the playoffs recently the he health is a concern though I’m not denying that Brandon Ingram health is much more of a concern honestly he hasn’t he’s playing like 50 games a year I I’m not even gonna advocate for any traits I’m really not sold on any of it but if I think Paul George does give you a championship window uh it’s all I’m arguing if they made that deal I would say hey they got two two three years you have maximized your chance but again I’m okay with keeping keeping this together I have another dumb hypothetical would you do that trade for KD yeah yeah same same thought process same thought maximizing your two three years it’s basically the Toronto thing within a little bit more of a leeway because you don’t have to worry about Kawai Paul George leaving immediately after know that you have him you just have to hope that he’s healthy and you manage to make a run at it which Toronto got really lucky in a lot of ways but that’s kind of the blueprint that I’m using I think kind of the difference between that blueprint or like what you’re envisioning is that the pieces around the core guys like in Toronto really made sense and I don’t think they make sense the same way in Cleveland it also depend how you manag if you manag to restructure the roster now you’re asking a lot to ret the rest the roster like what if you got Norman Powell in in Return of that deal as well uh would that help the little things around the margins that you could do um again it’s not gonna happen this was the main thing that I wanted to say is Paul George I’m I’m saying right now there’s no sense in even doing the 10-minute hypothetical we had because he has not come into Cleveland I don’t think it’s gonna happen that’s the main reason why I think we sto talking about it who has LeBron or Paul George LeBron okay which I think is all the same issues but even a smaller Championship window but I’m not going to complain about but the championship window is like wide open it’s like it’s like a door it’s like a Runway you know you you have to go through all these fraudulent teams in the East you know in Jackson’s mind it’s the security guard meme where they don’t even pat down they just let you basically that’s you know like LeBron hasn’t lost a meaningful game in Boston since like 2008 well that’s all he did lose that he did lose that one game where he like was crying afterwards which was pretty great so I I do want to bring that up yeah uh that’s all for this week’s recap special thank you to everyone who listened or watched on YouTube If you enjoyed our show please consider hitting subscribe and dropping a like to help out the channel let us know in the comments what you think of a potential Paul George trade or just share your thoughts on anything we discussed today and with all that being said go Cavs I agree Cavs Brian what did you think of the acolyte

Recapping this week of Cavs News

– Cavs Expand Coaching Hunt
– Is Mitchell calling the shots?
– Altman willing to keep core-four together

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