Did Derrick Jones Jr. take a shot at the Bulls?

Did Derrick Jones Jr. take a shot at the Bulls?

[Music] hi everybody welcome into the Bulls Talk podcast brought to you by Toyota Let’s go places I am Kevin Anderson you call me Bulldog everybody else does uh joined by my friends Casey Johnson our Bulls Insider for NBC Sports Chicago and NBC Sports chicago.com and our man behind the scenes the podcast producer extraordinaire uh Tony Gil uh guys I think we probably need to address the elephant in the room with everything last couple days and yes I am excited for the acolyte tonight on Disney plus two episode premiere Star Wars is back uh I cannot wait it’s going to be fantastic so that’s what I’m looking forward to um moving on let’s talk about I just finished X-Man 97 myself hey all right good stuff uh I’ve heard it’s fantastic I’m H I’m halfway through the uh season right now I’m a little bit behind so yeah we may uh we may turn this podcast into a uh um nerd culture podcast as well I know KC will be very excited if we if we elaborate on that um so let’s uh talk about NBA Finals we’ve got a couple former bull in the news uh let’s start with uh Derek Jones Jr making some comments ahead of the finals about the uh this former team the Bulls and the potential for having stayed there um some people took his comments maybe a little bit differently than he intended as as a shot against the Bulls but um KC he was he was asked about um you know when he was free agent and in potential of resigning with the bulls and what made Dallas attractive and uh basically said that he could have stayed in Chicago but he bet on himself and he felt like Dallas was a better landing spot uh for him in terms of his uh playing time and and skills and how he’s going to be used um was that a shot at the Bulls like should people take it as a shot at this at that coaching stafff front office no I mean here’s the thing about drik Jones Jr he’s he’s as team oriented and as soft spoken a guy as i’ as I’ve covered um good for him by the way for betting on himself and people think like uh people think like he declined the Bulls and went out in free agency and got this big offer he took less money to to to go to Dallas he had a player option with the bulls that was more than the league minimum slightly more than the league minimum and he’s playing for the league minimum in Dallas but now he going to be a free agan again this offseason and it’s going to get paid so that’s that’s what you do that’s why you uh cheer for these guys because they bet on themselves and and it works out and coincidentally his other Suitor uh I was told um last offseason it went down to the wire he was picking between Dallas and Boston so uh the two teams that are meeting in the finals he could have had a role with either but man he’s starting for the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA finals and all Kudos go to him for seeing that opportunity and making it happen he has a perfect fit there um but uh look he his role in Chicago I thought he actually played very well whenever given the opportunity he was Billy Donovan’s deao small ball five and for those who say that like oh he got screwed in Chicago I mean you know Patrick Williams was always going to be uh ahead of him on the on the depth chart number one because he’s kind of your number four overall pick in your future and then you know fan favorite took the majority of the the the backup minutes in gavonte green um That season so you know when Derek played he played well he actually had remember that high-profile game saving block of James Harden in the double overtime Road victory over the Sixers in in March of 2023 I mean he had some big plays and never seemed unhappy here in fact I’ve got an article here that I had fun tweeting the other day from April 18th of 20123 um where he tolds me on the record I’m GNA pick up the option now luckily I couched it because uh you know I said what whatever is said in in mid April doesn’t really mean much once it comes to the summer and The Business of basketball but uh he said uh I told Coach Donovan and everybody else I’m locked in for two years I didn’t sign for two years for no reason I’m here for two years um so you know that’s what he sit on the record and then obviously changed his mind which he has every right to do and it and it worked out for him Tony did you take that as a shot of the bulls or is this just the reality of it was a better fit in Dallas and that he felt like from a playing time standpoint and the U ability in terms of how he was used just just made more sense for him yeah I think when he when you look at the okay what did I do here and what are the how are they going to use me here um versus the longer money the he he essentially you know played the long game you know on that like hey I’m still young enough to do this to look at my future in the NBA four or five years from now um what’s the better outcome overall five years down the road um you look at the situation I get to you’re looking at Dallas right I get to play with two of the most elite scorers in the NBA and I think as you progress as NBA player um you if you want to you can recognize your fit right who you are as a player what you bring to an NBA team you stop thinking you can score 30 points a game and and realize like how can I contribute to a winning situation and what I can do um so he comes here and I don’t think it worked out as well as he thought that it was the inconsistent playing time the inconsistent role um where he was the depth chart right rare he was on a depth chart I I assume him um thinking that oh I can I can do this I can definitely start here this is they’re not you know particularly any good I was just on Miami Heat where you know we were doing some winning and I was playing significantly of course I’m gonna play a bunch in Chicago and for some reason that wasn’t the case here so he’s like well I could get this guaranteed money but I know I’m still a good player I know I still can contribute to a winning situation and here’s this team with two elite players saying hey we want you Nico uh I his ass name but uh the general manager for uh the Dallas Mavericks I’m pretty sure the conversation is like hey we can use you and we are going to use you and for me it seemed like that’s all it took because nobody willingly takes less money right to do a job but I feel like the conversations might have been different than what he was having here in Chicago of usage of uh how they were going to play him what his role will be specifically and they what they promised they delivered he got a chance and got an opportunity to showcase what he can and now he’s contributing to a team that’s in the finals like that’s he won the BET right he won the bet he bet on himself and he won and now whatever happens in the finals he’s in the finals he’s going to get paid in the long run because of his contributions here no matter what if you would have played here last year I don’t I’m not gonna say I don’t think I know that he wouldn’t have gotten as much money as he’s going to get now on his next contract because he did the Long play uh for himself and kudos to him that that like Casey said you look you can say you know yeah I’m coming back but you can change your mind it’s okay it’s The Human Experience is changing your mind it’s the whole thing um so yeah I I like his choice I like the way he kind of thought about it went about his process and now he’s going to the finals and he’s going to get paid some more some more context on this and what’s coincidental is he actually would have played a lot this year because of all the injuries the Bulls had I mean they they owner off the team was getting run for the Bulls so Dereck Jones Jr would have been grabbing those minutes now that said I’m not saying he should have any regrets because he started 66 games for an NBA finalist averaged 23.5 minutes for the Mavericks for for comparison he average 15.6 minutes in his 115 games with Chicago with only eight starts but just some more context too about you know whether or not he’s taking a shot at Chicago I mean I wasn’t there in Dallas when he said those comments it was a media um it was a press conference media availability before the finals um just having been around Derek for for two seasons he’s a pretty soft spoken guy he’s not that kind of guy I didn’t read that when I was watching the clip as a shot at the Bulls and more context he was hurt a little bit in 22 23 too so he also had some injuries and cl fact he alluded to that in this interview that I did with him in in March of 2023 when he was telling me that he’s coming back for sure here’s the here’s more of the quote I just love being with these guys I know my role isn’t always what I want it to be I’ve been through a few injuries that set me back a little bit but I feel like a healthy DJ for all 82 is very special and you know he was healthy this year and he was special in a perfect role for him so um I didn’t read it as a shot of the Bulls I as Tony said I read as a guy betting on himself and you know the irony is you know he’s making less money this year than he would have with the bulls but he’s gonna make as Tony said a lot more money in 2024 off season than he would have if he had stayed with the bulls and last thing for context it’s not like also he was like people were beating down his door uh in free agency I mean his decision didn’t get finalized I want to say until like mid August last year so you know he’s he’s a he’s a very good role player is what he is and that’s why good teams Boston I’m not saying that critically that’s why good teams Boston and Dallas were in the mix for him but you know he’s not like a lead guy he’s he’s he’s a role player and he fits a perfect role on on good teams because of his skill set so I’ll be I’ll be like Daniel Gafford I’ll be I’ll have a smile on my face watching him because you like to see guys like that succeed Bulldog um and and I’m glad Casey mentioned that because to be honest the Bulls weren’t good enough to get the most out of Derek Jones and D like that goes into this as well right like role players need to get the most out of them they need people around them to boost what they can do um to impact them and the Bulls just weren’t good enough as as a team to get that out of so when Bulls fans say oh you know they could have had this you know with Danel Gafford or or derck Jones like absolutely not absolutely not Kyrie and and Luca create that environment to allow those role players to thrive because of their talent the Bulls aren’t that talented at the top end uh and they haven’t been that talented what probably since Jordan I mean that talented Luca who who’s like the only behind Jordan in terms of postseason scoring like that that stuff doesn’t Happ so to to say that if Derek would have stayed that would have been the outcome of that output I completely disagree with that notion it was never going to be that output because the Bulls aren’t as good as the Dallas Ms well with Luca and Kyrie besides being incredible scorers they’re also incredible Playmakers and facilitators and so when you’ve got somebody of Luca’s caliber and Kyrie’s caliber uh demanding so so much attention from opponent defenses it is going to give opportunity for the other role players on the team to shine and like specific to DJJ like even from this season in the postseason he’s hitting nearly 40% of his threes like he is stepped up his game during the regular season was nearly 34 and a half so even in those opportunities he’s taken advantage of it and then getting back to the Bulls I think to Casey’s Point ironically with Patrick Williams being out a significant amount of time I think he would have gotten uh probably just as much of an opportunity this year with the bulls to shine if you will uh certainly would not be in the finals though uh but when he had to make that decision about do I take the player option do I become a free agent do I look you know around for their opportunities looking at the Bulls he knew he was going to be behind healthy Patrick Williams and D rozan on the depth chart a healthy LaVine on the depth chart like those three positions that he would likely kind of like swap into and lot into and so he had to make the best decision for himself and um you know certainly it’s a little ironic that the two teams that he was essentially going to end up potentially signing with the two finals teams so the opportunity would have been there uh in Boston as well though we don’t know given U the Celtics this season how they would have used uh Derrik Jones Jr but clearly the Mavericks are using him stepped up and shined in the postseason which is great uh we’ll certainly talk about that specific finals matchup uh at depth here in a few minutes um but for DJJ good for him good for Gafford we we we obviously went into the Gafford stuff at length during our last podcast but it’s you know I don’t mind seeing fora Bulls shining in situations like this especially guys who are easy to root for um so you know I’ll be rooting for the uh Mavericks in this series from a personal standpoint it’s a it’s a good story uh certainly to the point about Luca um just an incredible incredible player before we get into the finals matchup though another for question oh yeah please yeah yeah uh does this go does the DJJ stuff and his comments go into kind of what we talked about last week in terms of former blls thriving you know elsewhere that narrative that we kind of discussed shortly does that kind of fall in line with that I think a little bit though he had success before Chicago right like you know like he he’s had a very long career I think like in terms of that does that make it worse he had success before Chicago and then after after but he had successful moments with the bulls I’m telling you man he won that game in in in he’s had he had big plays in big games for the Bulls so it’s not like he didn’t play well in Chicago just he his he had a more limited role because of multiple circumstances you know so um and and he was hurt some too so look he shot 32% from three his first year in Chicago 33% and then 34% his second year you know he’s just not going to be out there more than Patrick Williams they need more three-point shooting and then Javonte green and him kind of played the same role like the energizing Rim protecting small ball guy you know athletic small ball guy and Javon green you know was a fan favorite and played they both had big moments so yeah I don’t I don’t think he falls that group I think he’s just he’s he’s he’s in he’s in a very very good role for himself very good role for himself Tony I’ll say in terms of that group only if you look at it through the lens of these are players who were on the Bulls that were not utilized um as efficiently as they could have been by the Bulls and the Bulls let them walk but at the same time like he’s the one who opted out of his player option he’s the one who decided I need to go into free agency so um maybe maybe Li Callum col be a little bit just just a tiny bit um moving on to another former Bowl uh Michael Carter Williams made some news over the past week with some of the comments he made about Jimmy Butler and and Fred hyberg uh Tony if you could explain uh to the listeners and viewers who may have missed those comments if you could give context to to what he said and uh the impact there uh yeah as soon as I I saw this clip I was like I cannot wait to ask Casey about this uh now this is this is you know going back a few years a few seasons when Jimmy Butler and Fred hyberg was here but Michael Carter Williams uh joined uh giannis’s brother the nasis the Nas’s podcast does everybody have a podcast by the way everybody doesn’t need a podcast every player doesn’t need a podcast yeah um and so I think he was one of his first guests and Michael uh Carter tells a story um essentially describing his time in Chicago and uh the relationship that then the best player on the team right Jimmy Butler had within head coach uh Fred hyberg so um he’s saying like you know it was very contentious even from from the get-go uh between those two uh people and then it came to a head where Fred finally asked Jimmy in a meeting what’s what’s your problem with me in front of everybody they they it was a team meeting and Michael Carter Williams goes in and says Jimmy says well one I don’t like you and two I think you’re soft and before he got to the third Point Fred yells out well F you Jimmy and then and then they you know kind of got into a back and forth and Michael Carter is like everybody just like looking and staring and seeing them kind of go back and forth and I was like man was it really like I knew that it was very contentious and they had and eventually you know Fred uh well Jimmy got you know traded and then you know Fred eventually left but like KC I I guess is there any context or leadup or did you hear about this story uh when it happened uh and what was I know we’re going back in time we’re doing some Bulls history but I it’s a funny story well it’s funny if you’re not Fred hyber you know so uh um no I mean look Michael Carter Williams was on the team in uh 1617 I just looked it up to make make sure you know Jimmy Butler’s time troubles with Fred hyberg started right away in 2015 his first year there so this is like old news now I I had not heard this anecdote this didn’t come to me via Source Material off this team meeting but there were probably six or eight times during Fred and Jimmy’s two shared years um there that that you know you heard stuff where Jimmy and Fred were not getting along or cing I I mean but you know Jimmy went on the record remember the big deal in in December of Fred’s first year December of 2015 I’ve got the quote in front of me where he said I believe in the guys in this locker room but but I also believe we probably have to be coached a lot harder at times and then the best part is it’s classic Jimmy I’m sorry I know Fred is a laid-back guy and I really respect him for that but when guys aren’t doing what they’re supposed to do you have to get on guys and here’s the big part of the quote that’s important myself included I mean Jimmy always took accountability looked inward um so when he’s you know telling Fred to coach arter you know he’s saying get on me too coach Me Harder too um Jimmy likes that but yeah Jimmy and Fred did not get along they did not see eye to eye that was well documented so while this is a fun anecdote and and uh obviously a juicy story because I had not heard this one I mean you know it it happened multiple times over two seasons they just Jimmy just didn’t respect Fred hyberg it’s as simple as that um you know and Fred in general had um you know some issues in terms of player accountability Joe Keem noan and him had had a incident early uh in Fred’s tenure but you know also Fred took a team to the playoffs so you know you gota you got to look at the picture as a whole and obviously management picked Fred’s side which is also old news um and the Bulls are still trying to recover seven years later so there you go this story speaks speaks to Jimmy I think more than anything else right like this this is just a like completely believable Jimmy Butler story for his personality and who we know him to be um I really want to know what the third point he was gonna make was like I wonder if something it was something like and you’re a bad driver you know like well like what was was the third point he wanted to make that it could have been about why I didn’t like him it’s interesting to me that it’s interesting to me about yeah it’s interesting to me about um how Jimmy perceives people around him need to be not just players you know we certainly know his time in Minnesota that he had issues with some of his teammates there believing that they were soft I mean there’s the famous anecdote in which he played with the reserves of the uh Timberwolves and in the team scrimmage and they beat the starters other than him um and just like how he kind of like perceives people’s roles and personalities to be um he had a very famous blow up with Eric Bolster in Miami um not that long ago about a year back so like like certainly Jimmy I think is probably an acquired taste when it comes to getting along with he’s got a very forceful and strong personality that he’s kind of developed over the years but it’s interesting to me that he feels like from a coaching standpoint a coach would be soft now I completely understand the quote that you had casy where he believes that coaches need to hold players more accountable you know I 100% understand a player wanting that from a coach but in terms of the mentality of a coach being soft like the coach isn’t out there playing they’re not they’re not boxing out getting out in the paints throwing elbows and you know so like there are a lot of different coaches Personalities in this league and a lot of them have had success coaching in different ways I I certainly to say that um you know these two coaches in the finals are probably different personalities and certainly the four teams and the Conference Finals have different personalities as their head coach there’s one to do it I think some people have the mentality that everybody has the be a Bobby Knight style uh authoritarian coach maybe that’s what Jimmy needs but it’s interesting to me about what he needs out of a coach to for him to thrive and what he feels like a soft coach is because certainly Fred I mean Casey could speak to this Fred did have a more laid-back personality like he he wasn’t it’s it’s interesting to me also that when you go through Bull’s tenure of their personalities they seem to alternate personalities with each head coach over these last 15 years like Vinnie Del Negro had a very different personality than Scott Skyles Vinnie had a very different personality than fiido who had a different personality than Fred obviously different than boand different Donovan they seem to like alternate the Styles and Le personalities outward facing I mean Casey to Fred’s specifically he did have a laid-back personality but it didn’t make him necessarily a bad coach for that no in fact when he was hired all we wrote about were the comparisons to Steve Kerr and the players coach and how he could be the next Steve Kerr but you know that I can tell you exactly what Jimmy means by Soft because we wrote it a million times in two seasons is it’s it’s the it’s the lack avoiding confrontation and avoiding having the hard conversations with players and holding them accountable and that that was Big Jimmy’s biggest issue with Fred and that’s why he and spoler have got along so well and buted heads at times because they’re both forceful direct honest in yourface personalities but you know I don’t want to speak ill of Jimmy obviously he’s had a great run in Miami but you know I know Pat rodley came out and said that you know they they plan to extend them but it sounds like that if that’s going to happen that not going to happen till next summer and I can tell you that in conversations and and around the combine is there’s still perception around the league and this this could be wrong but I’m just saying there is a perception that Jimmy is getable if if you want him uh in terms of you know making a call to Miami and and Jimmy is is is is getable for the right price you’re not going to give him away obviously but you know it may play into the fact that Jimmy has a shelf life I mean Jimmy’s had a great run there two team the finals um but you you know Jimmy also you know he he’s got a strong personality and he also you know what Riley said in that xmy was like we need guys committed more to the regular season and Jimmy’s gotten to a point where he kind of tries to turn it on for the playoffs and it’s worked so I’m not being critical of it but um you know it’s it sounds like there’s some culture clashing going on down there now maybe they work it out um but that’s kind of what the percep on the league is is that for if you really really want Jimmy and make him offer he he he he could be he could be available this this summer Tony you had something you want to follow up on yeah no I mean we can stay on this like I I think it’s starting to come toe because Pat Riley has sees a thing as a specific way and it’s cool when when everybody’s kind of on the same page uh but I get it from both sides right you do need that buildup during the regular season as a team to get to where you need to go in the finals um but Jimmy at this point in his career his body I don’t think in the way that he plays uh I don’t think he can take a full NBA season so now you’re at an impass where you have this philosophy of this organization uh which has proven proven successful and which in large part Jimmy has agreed with uh but when now it’s your body kind of on the line um at risk right now and you know that hey the most important thing is the playoffs uh and you want to get prepared for that but the Vel the team philosophy is what it is and you have in large part agreed with that so I think for for Jimmy’s sake he needs a bit more of a of a balance now that he’s in his older years um the and the style in which he plays is is very very physical um and I don’t think I don’t think he’ll ever meet that all NBA threshold I think going forward U that that league minimum of games to get there I just don’t think he’s at that point in his career but the the downside of that is you don’t get the the buildup and the work and the practice that you need during the regular season uh to build a solid structure for a deep playoff run and a real legit Championship run um so whoever has that balance or wants to take that risk with with with Jimmy I’m very interested to see how that goes I do expect them to be back with Miami because I think it’s just it’s the right fit uh for him uh but I had a a segue actually in in the the coaching style conversation because you you you that particularly PE picked my brain uh Bulldog about the coaching styles that the Bulls have and holding players accountable and that seems like that is a thing with Billy of not holding everybody accountable equally across his roster um and that if if Jimmy were here right that would be an issue I’m assuming um and and it seems like that’s kind of been Donovan Amo where he will give more leeway and to his Superstars uh not wanting to engage in those confrontational conversations um we saw what he did right with with Zach um and he’s pulled way back on that I thought he was absolutely right by benching Zach in the in the Orlando game at that point in the in the game um and for to see him not stand on that decision because I thought it was the correct decision it was kind of like well all right well he’s just kind of new age Fred to me and that’s that’s kind of what I thought where he’s like he’s just backed off on it and I was like wow like you have the tenure you have the support of the franchise stick with the decision it was a good decision and the team were was basically about to win the game at the end of course they didn’t we know they didn’t but um that kind of just put in my brain just a different personality and styles that yeah the Bulls went to the Other Extreme again after boiling with Billy is that a fair criticism of Donovan casy to say that he doesn’t coach his veterans and and star players the same way he coaches his uh rookies and in second third year guys well to be clear there’s a huge difference in the sense that Billy does not mind confrontation at all he he actually embraced this confrontation and said that on the record to us multiple times and has very direct ation with players and is a very honest and direct and transparent coach so he does not mind confrontation he kind of likes it he kind of likes it when there’s some controversy or confrontation going on within the team because he thinks it hardens teams so there’s that but there are you know the perception that he you know holds younger players to a different standard than veterans has been around him before he time with the Bulls from dating to Oklahoma City and I’ve seen some of that I mean that but that to me kind of more goes to his trust level he trusts his veterans implicitly and he that’s where he’s known as a players coach I mean like he loves dear I mean dear can do no wrong in his eyes really and that’s not to say he doesn’t coach him but he definitely coaches dear differently than say IO um and you know dear is some you can make the argument dear’s earned that respect so um but to I want to make sure that that perception that you know Billy avoids confrontation is that’s not ACC he he he he he likes it when there’s confrontation because he thinks it hardens teams um Moving On Let’s uh finish up with the NBA Finals uh Mavericks and Celtics uh game one Thursday night uh it’s now being reported that christops porzingis will be available in game one uh for the Celtics which obviously is not played at all this postseason and is a a big part of their success not that they needed him uh during the playoffs to this point uh but that’s C going to be big for them because they get another weapon back um for that the Celtics are the heavy favorites right now to win game one at six and a half points and win the series at minus 225 um guys I’m going to ask for your X Factor uh for each team uh in a minute but I first want to start with just asking overall what do the Mavericks need to do either individually or collectively to win this series the Celtics were the best team in the regular season the been the best team in the playoffs we’ve talked about how they can’t control their opponent um with injuries and matchups but they were the one seed in East for reason they have rolled over everybody uh so far in the postseason they are a great offensive team and a great defensive team um they are seemingly Built For This Moment and they are what you want um a team to look like on both ends of the floor on one guy or even two guys to score um it’s going to be a really hard matchup for Dallas what does what does Dallas have to do either individually or collectively to win this series well I should be out of the prediction game since I picked Minnesota to beat Dallas so I I’m not sure I’m worthy for this prediction but I think this series boils down to which backup bull Center gets a ring Luke cornette or Daniel gaffard okay that’s to me series is all p man but uh no I look I think it’s I think Dallas is gonna play him tougher than some people might think I mean obviously just the chemistry that they have had in these playoffs and the level that Luca and Kyrie are playing at and then iers sold their role players in the Minnesota series I thought Minnesota defensively would smother Dallas and then uh you know the role players impact would be muted but this team is just perfectly constructed since the trade deadline you know with the additions of um Gafford and and Washington and Kyrie and and and Luca are playing at such a high level obviously um you know I could get into like boring x’s and O stuff and talk about offensive rebounding or Corner three-pointers because you know the Mavericks take a c ton of corner threes and the Celtics defend the corner three better than any other team in the league but to me it really comes down to Stars I mean if for to answer your question directly Kyrie and Luca have to be just out of their minds for Dallas to win the series so how’s that for analysis but that that’s that to me is what that’s that to me what comes down to but I do think it’s going to be closer than some people think I think I think I I got Boston at six and I see some people are picking the Mavericks and I quite frankly would not be surprised after what I saw from them in the Minnesota series yeah I I think the Celtics overall is a better team uh than the Mavericks uh and I think my generic analysis you know on the team is can Dallas keep the games close enough to uh to say okay our stars are better than your stars just for these last five minutes Dallas needs to make sure that they keep Pace um with the Celtics because Cel they’re going to take a lot of Threes And it’s going to come from everywhere and it’s going to come from everybody so if they can manage and defend in the three-point shot um marginally well to keep up pace offensively right with the Celtics and then it’s just Luca and Kyrie is better than Tatum and brown and I if that’s how the Mavericks should go into this and believing that if together as a team we keep it manageable within five right under 10 points like you know heading into that those final crucial five to six minutes in the fourth quarter and then Luca and Kyrie can take us the rest of the way and KC is absolutely right it’s the the stars are going to need to separate themselves from each other and that’s who’s going to win the game I don’t see you know maybe one game where the Celtics just as a team just overwhelms uh the Mavericks it might be in game one where the Mavericks are like whoa let’s let’s readjust some things uh but if they can just keep it just close throughout the game I don’t I don’t see the Mavericks you know blowing them out you know twice maybe one game twice but if they keep it close and say Luca and Kyrie go go do it you have to go do it this is why you’re here this is why we paired you guys together for this moment for these moments down the stretch and so far they’ve proven it if the game is close even if they’re down if the game is close Kyrie and Luca take over these playoff games games so far and it’s been entertaining it’s been fun um and I hope that they can keep it going I think the Celtics are still going to come out on top um but if the Mavericks want to win they have to say keep it close don’t let it get too crazy keep it close take the timeouts you know when you need to uh keep it close and then Luca and Kyrie are going to take us to the promised land uh all right quickly give me an X Factor that’s a player that is not a star player on each team that has to uh up up their game at least up to the level they’ve been playing at in order for that team to win uh Casey the start with you oh it’s SP for sure yeah I mean this one’s to me there’s no other X Factor I mean you know he’s he’s been out and now he’s been he’s in and is he healthy and you know he adds so much to that team so to me that one’s pretty simple and what about the Mavericks do they have in your mind an xfactor player that has to thrive whether it’s DJJ or Lively one one of the two backup guys because they when those two I mean really kind of the backup or I should say the center position I would say Obviously one starts just as a whole they’re they’re a different team when those guys are playing at a high level so yeah to me it’s the center position for the Mavericks T I agree I think it’s both big positions on both on both teams um you can know the yeah the the Stars will know seemingly you know cancel each other out right you know you could whatever match up you think uh that’ll happen but I think the bigs are going to be the the key factor here how involved is Daniel Gafford and Lively how are they going to defend poran how are they going to control the rebounding um aspect of of of the game like that’s for me that’s that’s an advantage for the Mavs is they can attack CL they can control the painted area on offense and defense um athletically more than the Boston Celtics um if they are getting involved if Kyrie and Luca are making sure that those guys are active getting the ball on offense so they can thrive on and be active on defense um I think that’s that’s a that’s a thing that can be taken advantage of on on the Celtics um because look I like porzingis as a offensive player he is not intimidating you know on defense so like are they making him work like really test like okay you’re going to come back for the finals right after this long layoff like those bigs need to challenge porzingis to play physical basketball um and take advantage of that in my opinion yeah Casey I know you’ve got a run so we’ll wrap up uh if you need to take off right now um for me I agree with you both of you about the uh Maverick’s Center position I think both those guys need to succeed in a big way especially against porzingis uh on the Celtics end um I think Derek white to me uh if I’m the Celtics I put white on uh Luca I think it’s going to be a significant mistake if Drew holiday is the single individual matchup for Luca in this series I think Luca will cook Drew holiday I think Derek White’s the guy who has to defend him um and they’ve got to be the Boston has to be able to IND individually defend Luca kind of like what we talked about earlier in the the series against Minnesota I think if Boston tries and run traps um doubles at Luca I think he is gonna just pick them apart and then that’s when you see DJJ and Washington and other guys pick them apart in the corner um so I think Dereck white on both ends of the floor if he has a a big series it’s going to go a long way um for them so that’s Thursday night game one um should be hopefully a good matchup in the finals hope we get more more than five games um Tony I think you make an excellent point I think for Dallas they’ve got to keep the game close in the final five and then at that point it becomes their pair better than Boston’s pair uh they are very very good in the clutch as we well know so uh yeah we’ve got a lot going on in the NBA sphere this week um you know certainly in the expectation is um in terms of the the greater landscape that uh after the finals are over the NBA May announce uh who is winning the national rights deals to the next TV contract for the next decade after the 25 season um which is a very big deal and I know NBC is heavily involved in those discussions as well so a lot going on uh and hey Star Wars acolyte premieres tonight that’s all anybody at NBC Sports Chicago is talking about um right now I’m excited um so fory Johnson oh I mean how long how long do you have I mean I can explain the entire history of Star Wars for you if you want to it’s going to take about a week um but uh yeah Tony if you have Disney plus uh the two episode premiere it’s it’s set to give you a slight primer it is uh set about a hundred years before the events of The Phantom Menace in the Star Wars universe that most people know so it’s set at the end of the high Republic era in the Star Wars universe so if you if you need more on that just hit me up have a long phone call and I I’ll fill you in uh with that so for uh our our our friends here at NBC Sport Chicago with Casey Johnson the great Bulls Insider check out his work at Casey J hoop on Twitter SLX and Tony of course our man behind the scenes and uh in front of the camera as well here at NBC Sports Chicago with the podcast so thank you for everybody listening for watching you like And subscribe leave a comment we always appreciate it uh thank you for watching thank you for listening have a great week everybody bu and go blls all right now that’s over I want to tell you the three keys to being a real Chicago sports fan it takes guts sacrifice and downloading the NBC Sports Chicago app when there’s highlights you can pounce on them when there’s exclusive insights you listen and take notes and you won’t get blindsided with the push alerts so download it

Derrick Jones Jr.’s remarkable season culminates in an NBA Finals appearance and a potentially lucrative contract. But what did his departure from the Bulls say about the team’s limitations? The guys discuss DJJ’s decision to bet on himself (1:30) and the impact of his success on the Bulls’ narrative (8:00). They also dive into Michael Carter-Williams’ story about Jimmy Butler and Fred Hoiberg (11:00) and the limitations of coaching styles (22:00). Plus, they preview the NBA Finals matchup between the Mavericks and Celtics (30:00).

#ChicagoBulls #DerrickJonesJr #JimmyButler #MichaelCarterWilliams

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