What should the Brooklyn Nets do with Ben Simmons?

What should the Brooklyn Nets do with Ben Simmons?

coming up the Ben Simmons Saga is only a year away from coming to a close for Brooklyn but is there a reason that the Nets should try to move the often injured veteran sooner than later we dive in on it all coming up [Music] next you are locked on Nets your daily Brooklyn Nets podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day ah yes my friends it is the locked on Nets podcast Radio the locked on podcast Network it’s your team the Brooklyn Nets every single day he’s Doug Nory I’m Adam marre we thank you as always for making us your first listen of the day we are 100% free on all those great platforms and let you know’s episode is brought to you by FanDuel make every moment more right now new customers get $200 in bonus Bets with any winning $5 bet that’s $200 in bonus Bets with any winning $5 bet visit fanduel.com Lockton to get started where we get started is Doug maybe the last time we want to have to debate what the Nets should or shouldn’t do around Ben Simmons a familiar theme for this organization with a number of players over the last couple of Seasons I could almost guarantee it won’t be the last time because we probably got a trade deadline we’re headed toward but like it at some point but obviously you know one more season of the Ben Simmons you I think you said Saga to start which is probably a pretty apropo word of sort of like what it’s been like with Simmons since he came over in the James Harden trade which has been um you know some hope and a lot of disappointment unfortunately a lot around injuries that can’t be helped in you know just a guy who’s been a rather polarizing player for years and years now I me just no other way around it but the Nets you know on some level it’s like the Nets are faced with a tough decision and in some level they’re not right with Ben Simmons I think that when it comes to what can be done the easy answer is not much but there it does beg the question of like at what point do you just say you know the 40 million that he’s owed this year is worth getting off of if it gives us you know locked in money on another guy going forward it’s it’s a probably a question of who that guy would be but you know there are maybe there are more options at least with Ben Simmons now than we once thought there were even if those options might not be particularly great ones yeah it’s funny because there’s been certain situations at even at a lower level we talked about Dorian finny Smith a lot this offseason couple of Seasons well being too patient holding out too long waiting for the perfect opportunity when it comes to Ben Simmons in many ways you go this is when you want to be patient right let’s okay the money’s coming off no reason to panic here let’s not start attaching assets although we’ll talk about some possibilities there I think to your point the only world where I look at it as hey we’re gonna move Ben Simmons now BEC even with you know 40 million dollars is because a player becomes available that has years on a contract going forward and you want to get them sooner than later you don’t want to maybe go to the offseason and try to revisit it at that point where maybe the market gets bigger the price gets steeper if we can get a guy now at the deadline something like that that we believe builds in towards the future I think that that’s a viable option but the biggest factor in that is probably this team being competitive this year right looking like they can get to the play and can be a playoff quote unquote Fringe team if that happens then it inspires a different path forward short of that it just feels like season ends Ben Simmons time ends with the Nets and we get to move forward with 40 million in cap space yeah and like they’ve made it this far so when the question is like what should they do with Ben Simmons I think that probably the overwhelming answer is just ride it out and it doesn’t feel great but at this point when you’re so close to the you know sort of proverbial Finish Line on this contract with really not a ton of Hope in sight on like ever coming back to anything close to what he was even at like 75% of Ben Simmons like when they traded for him you know you think back to when they make that trade when the Harden Simmons trade um and at the time where Simmons is sitting out presumably for just sort of being pissed off at the team which I think he had like a real right to be now whether he should have taken it all the way to sitting out once he was under contract I mean that one’s you know that way we could probably debate but whether or not he had a real gripe with the team I I think he did he didn’t help himself at all with some of the play he looked totally shot in that Atlanta series when he was still with the Sixers and the Sixers and Doc River specifically had the easiest thing ever to do at the time which was they lose the series obviously Simmons dumps the ball off the thyow and it becomes sort of a meme going forward and the easiest thing ever when rivers is asked you know is he the point guard of the future just say yes just say yes even if you don’t mean it these guys lie all the time all these guys do is lie like all you had to do is lie and just say yeah and then you trade him or you just do whatever and he’s not later and he’s like I don’t I mean he gave some version of like I don’t really know and that was kind of the end of it and so I’m not saying Simmons is totally innocent here but it did seem like coming out of that Philly time it was mostly just like oh Philly just screwed up so bad with their with their with their wording around some around like sort of his future there and then but but no one really foresaw at that point just this the sheer number of of injuries that he would have you know from basically that point on and that you know combined with probably some other stuff that might be you know Simmons in his own head related like this has been a total disaster and and I do but I do question about like how much of it you could have seen coming right like I think like that’s the part that I I know short of getting the Medicals and knowing all out I think it was hard to totally discern that at the time no of course listen 2020 2021 12th in MVP voting second Defensive Player of the Year voting and that’s and that’s the last time that Ben Simmons was talked about positively on the basketball court to your point we always we always reflect back on things and say well obviously you should never have made that deal if you knew at the time what was going to become of Ben Simmons now the question as we dial it forward we’ll get into your coming up is regardless of what you think can he be healthy all the workout videos over the course of every single summer he’s gonna be he’s gonna be 28 years old in a week he’s going to be 28 years old he’s played 57 games for the Brooklyn Nets over the last two seasons and he’s in the last year of this contract what does it look like going forward for him and and and in terms of the Brooklyn Nets and making any decisions around him how can you trust that as this year starts he’ll give you 20 games 25 games not even where he’s electric not where he’s Elite where he’s just on the court and available to maybe entice a team at a reduced contract rate to take a flyer on them all of these things seem incredibly unlikely but there are maybe pasts where the Brooklyn Nets can force another team’s hand because of the capital that they have in their coffers right now we’ll get into all that coming up here in just one moment all right before we get to that tell you friends over at FanDuel look summertime means baseball got the NBA finals going so much more you can bet it all on FanDuel right now new customer is going to get $200 in bonus Bets with any winning $5 bet that’s 200 bucks you can use bet everything from the finals MV P which is actually really interesting race as it’s starting to shake down on on FanDuel as the odds get a little closer here probably all on Boston guys between Tatum Drew holiday you got Jaylen Brown in there I don’t mind the brown the Jaylen Brown odds if you’re trying to go who might just you know step forward and shine over these last couple games if you think Boston’s going to take it it’s all there for you over on FanDuel visit fanduel.com lockon add a big win to your summer bucket list again fanduel.com locked on FanDuel America’s number one Sportsbook all right so as we continue on today’s lockon Nets episode talking about our old friend Ben Simmons I mentioned there you go back these last two seasons one of the things is as well like even within the even with the injuries so if you want to be optimistic and say well but if he comes back again this time maybe there’s something there it’s worth noting that it’s like some of the little areas you want to see them improve they’ve gotten worse like free throw shooting that got worse year-over-year these last two seasons with the Brooklyn Nets the scoring hasn’t been there even when he’s been fully healthy for the these very small stints the rebounding hasn’t necessarily been there last season in a very small sample size it looked good the assist numbers like everything that you also pointed to and again 57 games it’s not like we’re talking about a true two-year sample size but everything you look at with him you go I don’t at least I say I can’t guarantee that Ben Simmons in a lot of areas is going to be as good as he was even just in certain categories let alone in the most important ones the facilitating the court running like that stuff is there but as you and I both know over these last two seasons in those samples when he doesn’t have the athleticism when he doesn’t have the attack it does diminish the court vision and the ability to set other players up because he’s just not as dangerous a player as as for the other team so I just I look at him as even if he was 100% healthy walking in this year you’d still go okay what is that we we don’t know what that 28-year-old after two years of back injuries Ben Simmons looks like if he stepped on the court for the Nets yeah and actually and and so part of like this like the idea of like what should the Nets do with Ben Simmons right it’s like you know I think we started off by saying they got probably got to end up writing the contract out right and but if you’re writing the contract out the next question goes along with what you just posited is like what’s his role going into the season right so last year it was well he’s going to be the starter and we’re going to sort of build things around um him and and you know maybe some of the offensive capabilities and there’s going to a lot of dho stuff and we’ll kind of see if he can get to the rim and it’s going to be Court Vision pace and space and and and maybe maybe we can get on some hit ahads and and that’s where he’s really going to be shining and then obviously you know there’s times where it looks okay and there’s times where it’s not I think what we can definitively say is he cannot be in the starting lineup to start this season I I think like that should probably be a foregone conclusion and it’s totally crazy to think that your most expensive player would not start I mean this like never happens in the NBA even the bad contracts the guys still start like if you think about the worst most expensive contracts on the books right now the Zack Lavin the Bradley Beals like whatever you think of these guys there’s no question they’re at least starting like when Health they’re starting right like I it’s it’s it’s a it’s not even a question right now you can question like how far how good your team can be when they’re your most expensive player and they’re starting okay that’s but not the question is never or not whether or not they’re going to be starting I don’t think the Nets can enter a world where he’s like in the starting lineup I I just don’t see how it helps them I don’t see there’s not been a long enough track record of him staying healthy there’s you have to sort of like adjust your style pretty significantly when he’s around there if they resign Claxton it’s a for sure he cannot start like they cannot play those two guys together at like it’s just that that one’s not even a question to me so like if Claxton gets resigned and it’s looking like he’s really going to I think that probably makes the decision easier but I don’t think there’s any world where even if he make breaks Camp you’re like oh my God he’s so healthy I just don’t think you can do it like I I just think there has to be focus on some of these other guys and if you get something from him as like Off the Bench great but if but other than that any Reliance on him as a core piece of them I just think it should just be considered sort of like found money more than anything else which is nuts he makes $40 million a year but I just don’t see it any other way and as it stands right now because I agree with you it’s you know go and look at the at the net depth chart right now right let’s assume we we’ve seen some positive things from Dennis shuder he wants to be a part of the organization if he can stay here if you think that you know the back court is going to be shuder Thomas then you have M Bridges let’s assume Dorian finy Smith is gone we’re gonna do a whole episode about Noah Clowny and why he needs to be in that starting lineup and Nick Claxton to your point there’s not a player like you know starting him over Noah Clowney would be to me you know insane and moving Nicholas CLA into a pseudo for whatever it’s going to look like back court all all this nonsense of his positionist nature with Ben Simmons but okay fine I’ll even go a step further though why it is a problem for the Nets going to the second unit what is that you’re still waiting for the defined player we just did the episode on trendon Watford and bringing him back is he deserving of consistent minutes putting Ben Simmons in that second unit there’s the world where it’s also a detriment to the second unit guys and to guys the young guys Jaylen Wilson that’s going to come in and play it’s a detriment if you want to still have Dennis Smith Jr back on this roster who’s not an offensive-minded player that’s really where where the issue comes in for Ben Simmons in terms of even short-term value for the Brooklyn Nets we saw how clunky it makes your rotations Deon sharp that’s another problem playing with Ben Simmons at times so you’re going to keep this player he’s incredibly expensive we get that but this is the case for why like do you sacrifice something to get off of him because when you look at the depth charts it’s currently constructed you see these potential pitfalls where you stunt and hurt the growth of other players on your roster because this guy has a a specific area inside of his skill set that needs a very specific set of players around him and those are Elite talents those are Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irvings and James hardens that’s when a Ben Simmons can still be beneficial to you even without having a shot when it comes to the offensive game all right so I’ll push back a little bit on that because I think that while I agree with part of it I don’t agree with all of it so I think there are worlds where like he does help other some of these other guys like I think that if he was a a fully healthy version of yourself or like even let’s say an 75% version of it of of what I don’t think we’re never getting back to the old version let’s just say he’s 70% of what he was or something like that I think there are lineups where he would be helpful even in that current form I don’t think they include Nick Laxon I don’t think they include theiron sharp but if it was like Noah Clowney plus Jaylen Wilson you know I’m just thinking like some three and D Wing spacers guys who can because Clowney helps here that he can space the floor a little bit so I I think like that pairing is probably okay you don’t need to have you don’t need to have Simmons low man all the time he can you know he can get into the paint and play center and Clowny and not kill you with your spacing I think that would actually be those are lineups I think I’d be fine with like you know Simmons plus Clowney Plus cam Johnson Bridges cam Thomas I think that lineup would work if if Simmons was healthy so I don’t think he’s a detriment to to all lineup combinations but again I started that by saying like if you bring Claxton back for sure you cannot start him right like and and then or if you’re gonna go traditional five like you me Daron sharp or they signed to Center you cannot start him I I think there are lineups where he could still help because we still did see some of that last year like the assist numbers were still good he still pushing Pace one good category he pushed Pace off misses and makes I think that they that’s defin desperately need guys to push the pace and of anyone else that can do it so I think there are worlds where he does help some lineups I was mostly just starting with the just you can’t start him like that that’s like that it has it’s going to be let’s get let’s start with 15 minutes off the bench and keep the expectations really really pretty low yeah it’s that’s probably fair and and again like the the push back on your push back of my push back would be it’s not even that you say there are certain things that he can do well I guess I look at this is actually also a commentary on the Net’s roster and I say Superstar talents around him to make it easier but then it’s also okay so Ben Simmons you say pushes the pace and he’s in the second unit and he’s driving the lane and the Defenders are staying at home on the outside on the outside Shooters okay Cameron Johnson I I thought that his next phase was going to be a little more getting at the basket and taking a couple of players off the dribble on defensive matchups that didn’t entirely come to fruition he had some injuries Jaylen Wilson we say you know he’s that half a step too slow sometimes on the offensive end to really make that commitment so my that’ be my concern I AG I agree with you where he should start and where the expectations should be my concern is then that because the talent on the roster and obviously the talent from the starting unit to the second unit gets a little bit diminished as you would expect in NBA in the NBA then Ben Simmons it becomes a little less valuable because those guys can’t quite do the extra thing it’s the same reason we talk about male Bridges Ben Simmons drives and kicks now take your man off the dribble because the defense is out of sorts and you can get the basket well you can’t quite do that consistently so it does in some ways reflect on the Brooklyn Nets roster and saying even maximizing what Ben Simmons could be at 70 75% of his old self maximizing that he pushes the pace that he can facilitate he sees the floor so well that somewhat does get diminished because you’re on the Brooklyn Nets and that’s that’s kind of the ultimate irony here that even though you’re here and you maybe can’t get moved we also can’t make the most out of what your talent might be if you’re back on the floor that that’s my my biggest concern here yeah no no I think you’re that’s totally right like and we talked about this this has been a theme that we’ve talked about with many of the Nets guys anytime we talk about guys on an individual level we end up running into this little roadblock of you know everyone has their merits but on this team it just gets a little harder because of the how the team construction it’s poorly constructed some some by circumstance like it’s poorly constructed um on certain levels it’s mismatch pieces you the Claxton the claxon Simmons piece was is always the one that’s like the best mentioned it’s like even you know those two guys might be two of your five best players when fully healthy and playing them together is a total disaster right and it just doesn’t work as classic NBA rosters are built yeah exactly and so and that’s just like this um you know this like sort of feedback not feedback loop this like this Loop that the Nets have gotten themselves into with some of the personel we’ll talk about possible trades that might be out there what ultimately the decisions on Ben Simmons should be we’ll get into that here in a second first let you know the show is sponsored by better or help look we’re all carrying around stressors in our life the big ones the small ones we can keep them bottled up some just starts to affect us really negatively it doesn’t need to be just the big things that affect you negatively the small stuff can really start to build up on you therapy is what you need it’s a safe space to get things off your chest to figure out how to work through whatever is weighing you down this is where better help can jump in and really just be just like a 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want to try to do here so on the one hand you can say ride it out don’t worry about it but if there’s a player that you could go get that if you’re the Nets you think helps you in the short term if you’re just quite frankly frustrated and don’t want to have Ben Simmons around anymore for issues of his own from a basketball standpoint and issues of physical you know injuries that you can’t you know put against him in that regard are there any situations you can think of Doug where the Nets would pull the trigger on it or would be willing to attach an asset to it like what what’s your threshold for this we’ve done we’ve done this before in years past I think yours is pretty low in terms of willingness to add to Ben Simmons to move Ben Simmons well you definitely do not want to you know take on worse money to get off his money right so like I would never consider the LaVine piece of this or like the you know I mentioned Bradley b or like these other sort of like toxic contracts at this point there’s no chance I would add more money go ahead there’s no more chance I would add like more bad money going out more years I’ll throw out I’ll throw out a baseline here two years remaining on John Collins the Utah Jazz been speculated they want to move him this off season if they could now is that palatable for from the Jazz standpoint that’s a different part of the discussion but two years north of $26 million for John Collins uh probably not I think I want to just be as clean a cap as possible I mean everything they’ve been doing is 20 is is clean cap 25 6 so really anything that compromises it short of a guy that I know for sure a great piece like and I I no I don’t I don’t think I would do it I I just think at this point they’ve Rod out so long that just coming fully clean that getting anything back that’s either more years the same money sending out a phoenix pick or something or any pick like to get off I don’t think they would never send a Fenix pick to get off Simmons but the any anything I just would never I just don’t think you can do it you made it this far it’s been all bad it’s been a total F but like you shouldn’t compound the F by making it so you have another possible F you know the year a year later when you could just be clean right like I just think I don’t know I just don’t think they could they probably got lucky to some degree that they honestly in some ways they probably got lucky that the team is stunk over the last year like with this specific situation like had they been good or playing above their weight they might have been motivated to attach something to him to bring back to like sort of make marginal gains I think they probably got saved that they have been that they were horrible last year and that they just like oh what are we gonna do like attach more to get off this now like why bother we already stink if they had been 500 like they might have been they could have done talked themselves into doing I think they probably got saved by just being bad so there you go there’s a positive there’s a positive so bad it turned out good yeah and I think too it’s like getting across the end of last season that that was the the quote finish line for not feeling like you need to do something with Ben Simmons right once you got to the last year it’s like well this is we’re here like we’re here now it’s just let this season play out he’s healthy for a little bit he gets on the court for a little bit he doesn’t great like you can dream on he looks good enough and some team wants to take a flyer on him at the trade deadline like that’s the last sorry or you get like contract your Ben Simmons where it’s just like he kind of sees his NBA future right written on the wall here and he needs to do something and this is not a Ben Simmons thing I mean contract years I mean I guess are real things and your motivation just every they’re human beings your motivation changes as you get closer to possibly needing to like get another job right so yeah I I don’t know like there’s some world where they get as good of a version as you could possibly get from him just because he’s like what’s next for me I don’t know like is there another contract coming it’s like it’s not totally clear well okay so the the last two things I’ll mention is one from an asset standpoint if you’re going to look at anything and I think I I tend to agree with you I might be a little bit more on the side John Collins is the example doesn’t mean he’s the player I I wouldn’t hate having a couple of seasons of a player on the books extending into the 2025 off season if I think that it does help in the grand scheme of who you’re going to go after what are you going to bring in next and he’s are good you know good players that you think can be healthy and can contribute so I wouldn’t be totally against that Avenue one quick note is maybe it’s the Dallas first round pick or the Philly first round pick like there’s probably a limit to where I go you mentioned not touching the Phoenix picks if you were going to go into the assets not saying that I would do that but the other part of it here then is to your point I don’t even need I need I need two months of contract year Ben Simmons I need enough to entice somebody maybe that’s like the shortterm best case scenario is Ben Simmons looks healthyish coming back has a role not overstated playing 25 30 minutes a night 1520 coming off the bench and by the time you get to the deadline and the Nets have absorbed some of the final year of the contract a team will look and say we don’t need to have you attach anything for us to take a flyer on him for half a season he may be just worth it at X dollars for our playoff team for him to come in and Hey listen he can play some really great defense for you and he can facilitate Off the Bench like you probably have to reframe it that way from another team standpoint is this guy worth I don’t know what the money’s going to be $20 million for a half a season to come off the bench for 15 20 minutes and specifically be told you are here to defend players on a versatile level and to facilitate for other play you know you got that the right roster but maybe some team will squint and convince themselves especially if you’re like a a six to eight seed in the west or something hey we’re not going to win a championship this year maybe he makes us maybe he gets us a win in the Playoff round that we don’t anticipate because he locks down one player for seven possessions over two games like I I I don’t think it’s hard to see NBA teams being willing to take a chance on that knowing that that it’s only a chance for half a year it’s only a chance for right now and then it’s gone and then it’s over and the cost for the Nets would be anything at all a second round pick done great we’re so happy I don’t think there’s any chance of that Happ like I would say I I don’t think I would say that the CH the chances of that to me are so low that I I get it you’re you’re an optimist may call me a pessimist call me a glass all the way empty me an optimist you just said that Ben Simmons has a contract year how dare you sir or I think yeah I still think that that would not like get them I I don’t think anything if he let’s let’s ask end on this if he was having a contract type year to start the season for Brooklyn right you’re saying no team would would at the trade deadline say hey like we’ll take a half your flyer on this guy oh God I think you’d have to be so awesome like I I think because here I think what we’re forgetting maybe is forget just the stats and forget the I mean the guy carries around like such a negative vibe when it comes to like just not not him as a person but just like him as a player I mean he’s not even polarizing at this point it’s like kind of a joke it’s like it’s it’s kind of a it’s like a oh you know we’re post another round to posting on Instagram of like lifting weights like come on come on right like and so I think that I think that like a front office like even if he was amazing the front office it’s still like a Hercules and lift to like tell the correct story about it because he’s got like another story that maybe is not even basketball related around him at this point and so I think that that’s where like that’s even the harder part and so I I know I know that I was like dreaming on oh maybe a contract year and I’m not trying to like just you know dig you for also having some kind of like positive view it was mostly just like I I’m mostly just want to mention that I think there’s this other thing around him that it’s like it’s like well I was going to say it’s not this similar to like Kyrie it’s like well we’re forgetting that there was like other stuff that might have gotten in the way of like the value piece and it had very little to do with the basketball court like there was a way to view him in non-basketball terms that affects sort of like the overall story right it’s not the same but it’s like similar and that’s like there’s non-basketball things here that seem to tell another part of the story and I might that people might just not want to do business and it it’s worth like way less to be able to have to do business with it that’s all oh for sure and by the way like even in any of this I’ll close on it one that is my dream on scenario like you’re saying like dreaming on him having a contract year it’s I’m dreaming that he’s healthy and he looks decent and he plays you know for two months and some team goes that’s kind of interesting we’d like to be a little bit better we’ll take you know take a look at him that is the dream case scenario but for Brooklyn the it’s GNA be that push and pull even at that point because this is why I find it so fascinating it’s he second round pick you took Ben Simmons great or you we we gave you a young somebody that we didn’t like maybe we attached drron sharp because we’re not going to resign him in the long term like you try to facilitate this version of it but the Nets will get romanced by a version of Ben Simmons that looks decent for the short term because even though you and I agree they’re going towards 2025 and clearing the cap and having all these opportunities they also went into last season saying we want to compete we want to make the playoffs we want to be a good team we’re keeping male Bridges we’re keeping Cameron Johnson we’re sticking with the core that we have so like get ready bro for you know Ben Simmons to look kind of decent and have to hear postgame press conferences for the first half of the Season where they’re like well you know obviously it’s been a long road for him but this is the player we hoped we could have and we know that he can contribute to this roster even if it’s coming off the bench that narrative is exactly what we’re going to hear if Ben Simmons is healthy and capable of playing to start the season in Brooklyn and that as much as anything is a reason for Brooklyn to explore the options of trading him so that Doug and I don’t have to talk about that during the year there we go that’s that’s the whole dream buddy just talk about only the great version of it and and if not like let’s just move on okay we’re going to get out of here much appreciate everyone rocking with us uh through the off season got a couple cool things some crossover stuff on tap going over the next couple days which we’re excited about in the meantime just make sure that you’re subscribed to lockon nuts wherever you’re listening to podcast make sure you subscribe to lockon that’s on YouTube as well and of course when it comes to Ben Simmons we know that the older we get the fewer things seem worth waiting for and that is one Bill Rogers oh one of the alltime great poets back again tomorrow talking more Brooklyn Nets basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball basketball yeah

In the final year of a massive contract, the Nets are still left with more questions than answers when it comes to Ben Simmons. What should be the plan going into this season? Should they trade him (or at least try) this off-season? What about his role on the team going into next season? Is there any way he could be in the starting lineup again? The Locked on Nets guys take a look at the Ben Simmons issues and what can be done going into this season.

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