How Pascal Siakam and Obi Toppin were valuable in 2023-24 | Indiana Pacers player season recap

How Pascal Siakam and Obi Toppin were valuable in 2023-24 | Indiana Pacers player season recap

season reviews for some power forwards Pascal seaka and Obi toins year under the microscope Caitlyn Cooper joining us to break it all down as we do on the lock on Pacers podcast you are locked on Pacers your daily Indiana Pacers podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day what up y’all happy Wednesday and welcome into another edition of the lockon Pacers podcast where we of course talk about the Indiana Pacers as always my name is Tony East I cover the team for Forbes and Si and today diving in to the season that was for Pascal cakam and Obi toppen looking back with Caitlin Cooper for our player season review series one Stat one clip one over under to define a player season whether that’s a moment a skill a contract thing or ation thing something we dive into everything for those two power forward to are both free agents I’m talking right now at 607 on the 18th which is Tuesday I’ll probably put this episode up early just because again at any point a siding Could Happen Scott Agnes is reporting on the Pacers potential agreement with seak I haven’t heard any details about that yet but I’ll put this up early so that if it does happen I can just pivot into another episode so said happy Wednesday at the beginning this is actually G to be up on Tuesday late but that is the path we’re going with on this really good conversation with Caitlyn really deep detail Dives on both of these guys I hope you guys enjoy it you can find more details on these clips the things we talk about more numbers that you won’t get anywhere else on Caitlyn’s patreon patreon.com basketball she wrote highly recommend checking it out I’ve been a subscriber since the day she made it and I would recommend it to anyone let’s just Dive Right In talking some power forwards caylin Cooper power forwards for the Pacers last year this discussion was about Jordan war and O’Shea brette and it was in like late April or early May and this year it’s about a star level player and and a very good Reserve that are both free agents it’s the Pacers power forward season review episode with Caitlyn Cooper from basketball she wrote we’re diving into all things Pascal yakum and Obby toin today I’ll say this in the intro but again now if these players are free agents or are signed we can’t control that it’s Tuesday the finals are over and we’ll make it happen but I’m excited for this one Talent at the four spot Caitlyn this is not something we’ve been used to since that young on these season Recaps for the Pacers how was about to say that that was kind of a bleak Outlook last summer but OA Bret’s an NBA champion though so I was dying laughing at because he’s been doing the Vlogs so he’s like filming everything so they would occasionally cut the camera where you could see him in the background you guys can’t see me on YouTube he was always doing this like filming himself I can’t wait to watch it good prochet brassette a good dude of the NBA and we are gonna start today with Pascal seak the traded for man the first round picks to the Raptor to acquire free agent kind of for the Pacers right now and Caitlyn has the seak assignment where would you like to start we’re gonna start with the One Clip I’m gonna surprise you Tony and what where we’re gonna go on this particular ride okay I titled the clips that I sent to Tony as inverted which isn’t completely accurate but the reason yeah the reason I wanted to pick this is it’s from game one I believe against the Milwaukee Bucks and Tyrese is being Ed by Patrick Beverly it’s an empty side pick and roll and Pat Bev is shading Tyrese pretty aggressively to his left the Bucks are playing ice coverage so Brook Lopez is in drop it’s two-man game with SE yakum as the screener and at this point in the playoffs the Pacers were having seum pop out to three against Brook Lopez it’s a soft close out from Brooke which is fine because typically you know the Pacers like to reverse the ball to the weak side if Brook’s dropped back that means that the player that’s getting it to go into a dribble hand off or a ball you know a ball screen is going to have a little bit more space to play with but that also means that the ball is being filtered to the weak side to Aaron D Smith and he doesn’t do a lot out of that pick and roll possession and then dishes it off to Miles Turner ends up being a late clock step back too at the time the reason I picked that clip is somebody actually sent me a question at my mail in my mailbag at the end of May and was like hey what else could the Pacers be doing with these empty side actions that Tyrese and Pascal are running in the playoffs to potentially build something else out of that especially with how the Bucks and a lot of teams have guarded Tyrese this season and at the time I told him I said you know know I’d really like to see them pop Pascal more to the Elbow area when Tyrese is being shaded to his left that way he could throw it to Pascal at the elbow and potentially get back have access to the middle of the floor by going into like a g handoff with seum at that angle so lo and behold they play the New York Knicks in game six at home and that’s exactly what the Pacers did they put Pascal to Elbow Tyrese dribbles off the pick throws it to Pascal there at that range difference is they can’t go into the handoff because miles McBride and the Knicks in the series were also top blocking Tyrese on any off Ball action whether it was an off ball screen whether it was a handoff so Deuce is preventing him for male to go into that handoff so Tyrese counters by then being like I’m going to screen my own man so you can see him being very physical as a screener trying to sandwich dece McBride between himself and Pascal Pascal sees that rejects the pick puts the ball on the floor with his right and then turns back to his left to finish with really soft touch with his left hand over pre Chua in the paint that clip was my probably my favorite play of the entirety of the playoffs because it was so rare I think there was like 33 total screens i’ have to look at the number really quick that Tyrese set for Pascal during the regular season so per 100 possessions it was very low that they were running any type of inverted action that didn’t tick up a lot during the playoffs but it did go up a little bit and the difference that I really like there is yeah I was 30 three total picks during the regular season so 1.77 per 100 possessions it was an area that the Pacers really didn’t use off yeah yeah exactly and it only like I said it only about doubled so it still wasn’t like a heavily featured aspect of the offense but in that game six and with the way that tyes was being guarded throughout the playoffs that mattered and like the Pacers are known as being an egalitarian offense their movement a lot of times is how quickly they get to the next action is a big part of the reason why they were successful but sometimes you want to keep the ball the same side of the floor and you want to be able to put your two best players into action and that was very highlevel problem solving from the two of them that you started seeing more and more toward the back end of the playoffs including in game one against Boston when Pascal was being guarded Cross Match by Al Horford and I think that Pascal ended up setting like 22 screens in the reverse for Tyrese and that was very efficient offense for them as well so those clips I would title overall as two-man game progression between tyres Halbert and and Pascal seak yeah even as you go back to the regular season like it felt like and and some of this was that there was a stretch where buddy heeld was on the team and Tyrese was hurt and then there was one starting up and another but it felt like their Twan game development came in like Pockets like in this little stretch you know there was all these stories about Tyrese the screener because he’s saying I’m the best shooter we have now like I have to get better at this and then that kind of Fades away and then Andrew neart starting now and that looks different but he heals on the team and then it’s not a lot of seak halberton pick and roll kind of stuff but it it’s coming and then later in March it happens more and then they kind of do some inverted stuff as seak gets but it never was like it never felt like the two consecutive games you saw a lot of progression it just kept kind of happening in these random pockets of time over siakam’s 41 games and so to see it in the postseason when they need it to be awesome you need to run through your best players as much as you can you know I think that is that is something I’ll be very fascinated about next season shakum is back on the team is what what kind of are the next steps of their Twan game and doing what you said and keeping it on one side of the floor using each other and their own skills and the pressure they apply to defenses can what what is the next step of that does it look kind of the same where just like every once in a while we say like oh that’s new that’s different or like oh this player is not or is involved like when they would clear out the wing completely I remember they started to do that in early marchish with those too like it just kept getting a little different and that’s what made it work and not work at the same time in the playoffs is the volume and speed at which it happened I think some of the reason why it was come and go is because of who the two of them were being defended by because honestly like if you get into a series with Boston which it ended up happening with nart and seum by games three and four and the two of them are being guarded by Tatum and brown and you run a screening action you’re not really getting an advantage there and that was the case sometimes during the regular season where if they’re being guarded by the two best Wing Defenders you know not necessarily Advantage so sometimes they had to pick their spots between do we actually want to set a screen in our interaction or is it better for Tyrese just to input the ball to se yakum at the elbow and then what I really liked is putting Andrew neart in the dunker spot make a much wider entry point for seak where you know maybe miles is in the strong side corner Tyrese is there at the balls side wing and then if if people do squeeze in at in those gaps then tyes is available to you know potentially hit that open Catch and shoot three so some of it depends on the matchups but certainly in the playoffs where a lot of teams were toying with these different things they found advantages between the two of them and I like what you said too because I think it’s sometimes it’s easy to forget that like this was a mid-season trade the two of them did not have training camp together the things that Pascal did in Toronto both offensively and defensively are very different than the way that the Pacers approach both offense and defense so to see that continue to grow I think is going to be you know a really big part of what they do together and the fact that like I said it was that degree of highle problem solving and something that I’m sure that get into with both of these players seaks this isn’t my number my one field my one number but it does go along with those clips is that 39.5% of his shots were unassisted in the playoffs if you compare that to Obi toppen only 11% of Obi toppins were in the playoffs and that’s not necessarily to you know degrade Obi it’s just to show that like that is an element at the four spot that they very much did not have and something that they could go to which certainly mattered against how much time how much of the time sometimes the Pacers needed to play four on four where sometimes Tyrese was just you know out of the action and holding gravity sometimes too I I felt like in the regular season and a little bit in the playoffs but not as much it felt like when a SE yakum Halbert and Twan game would happen and it was a quick switch like they would just back up and go okay post up like you’re you know just go take the guard into the post because he’s an excellent post score right and so getting into this stuff really really matters and you can’t just do it every possession right like but I do think that how they’re covered matters just as much as what they’re doing together I think that’s going to be really interesting next year too assuming it’s the same starting five is how much do they up the volume of that if that is their two stars or they continue to play the way they did last year when they had the top two offense like you don’t go away from that but at the same time if this really strong pairing of stars continues to get better like how can you not naturally want to do more of this thing you know it’s going to be very interesting to see how that that kind of all Blends together hey guys short little break here so we can talk about eBay Motors passion drive and patience the formula for winning championship like the Celtics is also what keeps your rer die alive eBay Motors has everything you need to maintain your vehicle and leveled up to Peak Performance superchargers roof racks exhaust kits LED headlights and more whether you’re into speed power or style eBay Motors has you covered with over 122 million parts for your number one Rider ey you will always find exactly what you are looking for and with eBay is guaranteed fit your part is guaranteed to fit your ride every time or your money back because with eBay Motors your burning rubber not cash with all the parts you need at the prices you want it’s easy to make your car the MVP and bring home huge wins keep your red ey live at ebaymotors.com eligible items only exclusions apply eBay guaranteed fit only available to us customers I think some of it is the story between game five and game six against the Knicks right because after Tyrese got you know input into action so much by Duce McBride as a screener in game five to the point where he was literally hunted more than he ran pick and rolls himself and how much I said like they were playing four on four you go back to game six and Indie you knew that more of the offense was going to need to tilt toward seaka and tyres had a good game individually as well but you know that for lack of better terms that’s the reason they brought him here and and he showed up at the times that they need him to I think that they have a very hard time advancing in that Nick series if Pascal seak is not on the roster so I will go to the one number it’s just plus 0.977 that’s the net rating for the Pacers in the playoffs with tyes halberton and Pascal seak on the floor and just to break that down a little bit even further because I was interested to know I’m like hey you know they did have some lopsided games maybe you know the one blowout win against the Knicks really skewed some of this maybe some of the other games did they were plus 11.68 and 160 minutes against the Knicks they were plus 10.04 and 169 minutes against Milwaukee and they were also Plus 3.62 in 53 minutes against Boston that’s obviously a much smaller sample size against the Celtics but I think if you’re the Pacers and you know potentially looking to extend this individual you’re feeling very good that the Pacers won the minutes when both of them were on the floor together at the same time and and against exaggerated coverages and in the playoffs yeah probably like the most important number for them to to proceed right like obviously when you make a trade for someone of this high of quality the hope is that they’ll fit with your star and this it’s funny you mention that because we talked about this with Turner like how much better does Tyrese Halburn make everyone else this is I feel like the first time that the inverse conversation has really happened with a player on the Pacers how much better do they make Tyrese halber and so that pairing being so successful against good teams by the way you know the Bucks and Knicks are no joke says a lot about what they can do going forward knowing that okay this is such a good pairing like we can build out what fits from there even if what they like already is the answer to that question but especially against Boston who just I mean they just lost three games in the postseason and I won’t be the guy who says the Pacer should have won X number of games against them because they were ahead late in all of them but the fact that they were able to be competitive was largely because that duo works while and because Andrew neard was Sensational for the final two games of the series but that that says a lot right like they had to be out there and and I kept saying we talked about this too during that series every adjustment they make they have to be able to score with who’s out there well those two could score against the were they first or second one of the best defenses in the entire league this season and another component of this is another way that Pascal helps Tyrese in addition to those numbers being so strong is another number I almost picked which was seven the Pacers were seven and 19 last year in games that Tyrese did not play play they went seven and six this year in games that Tyrese did not play and a big part of that again was because they traded for Pascal earlier in the year when Tyrese was dealing with the hamstring injury they had somebody that they could lean into more heavily in a way that they didn’t prior to and to the point where like you just said nard was obviously Sensational in games three and four but he also played very well with Pascal SE yakum in those games too when Tyrese wasn’t available and they gave themselves a Fighting Chance in two playoff games that Tyrese didn’t play in so um another big contributing factor can can we make that six and six and remove the game that Bruce Brown went crazy against the heat from the no tyres data from last year that one should not count all the rest I’m fine with counting that but Obie’s defense against Jimmy Butler that’s true was probably his best defensive game of of the Year there were so many like the first two games they played after that real hamstring injury against the Wizards and I think the Hawks was like who is this team they played so different in those two games like it was very strange how they were able to problem solve that and that was pretty yakum anyway yes that says a lot about that too and I mean I found it interesting too that these two like Tyrese on seum off in the playoffs was minus 7.2 on 139 minutes Play Tyrese off seum on was also minus 6.6 in 220 minutes played so we know that they got a lot from TJ and Obi individually as being I believe they still held out by the end of the playoffs it’s the top two bench scores in the NBA during the playoffs but still like they were at their best when when and seak were both playing for the Pacers so Josh Green didn’t catch him Monday [Laughter] night I suppose I will then shift to the one over under which I think you’ll be surprised is not a contract figure mine is so good I’m glad you didn’t my one number is let me go down so that I have it exactly right 30.3 and that is his free throw attempt rate for next season oo would you take the over or the under and just as a frame of reference that is his career free throw attempt ah for the Pacers this year it was 26.7% which is the lowest it’s been since his second season in the NBA now that is fascinating um okay I’m just doing some lazy numbering if you don’t mind so this is two interesting stats tandem to me is that his free throw rate with the Pacers was the lowest it’s been since 20178 with Toronto and yet his average shot distance was below 10 for the first time since 201819 so he’s still playing and shooting in the paint but not drawing contact there’s a little bit of there’s like a lot of guys you could pick but I always use the same example of TJ Warren to him where he is very much an avoid contact finisher and not a play through it or try to play through it so I don’t necessarily think it’s like a very high cap like his free throw it’s going to Skyrocket next year because he’s just going to attack the rim a bunch geez I’d probably take slight slightly slightly slightly over that but not by much like 31 I would like to take the over because something we didn’t talk about is his above the break three-point accuracy dropped precipitously playoffs went from 35.3% down to 22.6% still shot the ball well in corner threes his pullup mid-range rate actually went up a little bit in the playoffs despite the fact that he hit those at a very high clip with the Pacers but there was about you know a six-game stretch toward the end of The Buck series after he had been guarded by Lopez to the beginning of the Knick Series where I hesitate to use this word but he looked a little hesitant to get to the free throw line because he wasn’t making free throws a lot of them yeah so it looked like he was almost avoiding contact a little bit despite the fact that a lot of times as a player he treats the paint like a war zone and that isn’t normally something that he does and to his credit you know he came out of it that free throw shooting slump turned around for him I think that he ended up shooting you know I forget what it was after that little bit of a slump but he obviously had the seven of nine performance against the Knicks and from then on out it was okay but like I said during that like six game stretch he only got to the restricted area his shot distribution was like 30.4% so he was getting to to that area a little bit less so I actually think this is going to be one of the most telling numbers for him both taking the free throws and how often he gets there and to explain why like I get asked this question a lot about you know the Pacers and how do they have so many drives per game and they’re constantly getting two feet in the paint but they don’t attempt near as many free throws as their opponents as for Pascal’s sake what you decited about his shot distance I looked up and his percentage of help on drives with the Raptors this year before he got traded was 69.8% he was seeing a help Defender with the Pacers that dropped to 58.4% so some those alignments that I just mentioned like when you can put nard as a guard in the dunker spot obviously Boston did a lot with the dunker spot and guards OKC does a lot with the dunker spot and guards like beneficial because then a guard is your rim protector but also it’s creating a wider Gap and there’s no feasible way to do that on the Toronto Raptors what are you doing with yakob purle if you put you know like Dennis shuder in the dunker spot like there’s no way to do that so Pascal was seeing less help and he’s very good at beating the defender right in front of him and oftentimes spinning around the defender right in front of him so it isn’t completely shocking that his free throw attempt rate went down a little bit when he wasn’t banging into multiple bodies with what the spacing situation was there by comparison to what it was with the Pacers but I I am going to be keeping an eye on how often he gets to the free throw line in part because it did look like his overall free throw conversion rate there was a portion of the playoffs where that was affecting his willingness to get to the free throw line well I I talked privately with somebody after the game games in New York when he was at I think okay so I just looked it up first eight games of the playoffs he was at 43.8% like that’s like hecka level of bad like right put in Precious atua foul him five times like you know that that it was brutal before he had that breakout kind of part of it the reason it didn’t hit as hard and this is something I think that will matter for maybe this number next year is he’s so good from the elbows or from even long two range that you’re okay with if you’re the Pacers with him taking that shot he’s gonna stop doing it right I think it for last year he was 50% on Long TW and like that might not hold but every year of his career for the last four years he’s been at 45% or better from like 10 to 16 that’s fine you know that’s a good shot a lot of the time so you you don’t necessarily need him to be like go to the rim all the time drive drive drive but it does help to do that because free throws are good even if you’re a 70 whatever perc free throw shooter I I’m inclined to not buy much though and think as his game kind of Ages again Assuming he’s still on the team as his game kind of Ages I think he’ll take more jumpers but I I think it will be this year slightly over 30.3 but not by much I think another point that should be added on is everything that you just said is that if anybody’s nervous about the Pacers signing Pascal to potentially a very lucrative multi-year deal in the coming days weeks whenever that occurs I think that his game’s going to age pretty well for the reason that you just said so other than other than because we didn’t talk about it and I didn’t put it at any numbers or anything else here his I went into Pascal’s defense with the Pacers with lower expectations probably than most because I do do a lot of crossover content with people who cover the Raptors obviously but I do think that I should point out that in game four of an elimination game as I’ve mentioned many times on these podcasts Pascal was not guarding jayen Brown or Jason Tatum and the series against the Knicks there was not even a consideration that Pascal would be put on Jaylen Brunson despite the fact that the best jayen Brunson Defenders are typically wings with ly who can still contest when he creates the amount of Separation that he creates he was not guarding Chris Middleton in the first series against the bucks so in terms of the Pacers still needing a Wings siiz Wing who they can throw against those types of options Pascal didn’t answer that question despite the fact that he did um fill a lot of the other voids that they needed to in the ways that I’ve shown and described here yeah I viewed him as a higher level Defender than he was for the Pacers when he got to Indiana maybe it’s because I was at this game but I remember thinking they played the magic they won that game in Orlando and I was like oh that was one of his best defensive games so far to me and it sticks out one because it was good but two because it was his 24th game with the team like it took a while for it to really you know another reason why that game probably stands out is it when they started switching big big and he would get because Pascal was guarding B Caro and anytime there was a four five pick and roll they switched it because they didn’t have as much concern with Miles switching out against fogner or B Caro but when you’re against Boston as we saw in game four there’s more concern with Miles switching out to Tatum and brown yeah well I remember that too because we were so close to the court with our media seats you could hear him and he had one switch with Isaiah Jackson that went wrong horribly wrong and they just both started like pointing and I was like oh they’re doing something different with Pascal and defense clearly because someone was very confused on what it was Isaiah’s fault that’s why Pascal pushed him like wor remember the play that’s crazy yeah it was I remember that vividly because I wrote a piece about it I’m like finally like this is what Pas Pascal needs to be a switch defender in both cases and we’ll get into it with Obie as well because neither of them like this is their games are so polar opposite different but the one thing they have in common despite playing the same position is that neither of them are somebody that you really want to put against top Wing options right now but the one thing that seum does that top and doesn’t is that if seak is the screener Defender I feel okay with him switching out for the ball and being able to be in contain better than Obi but like I I’ll be honest here like finding the right defensive role for seum was a journey for the Pacers and it’s something that I still don’t fully know like there were games in the playoffs where you know he was helping off a precious toua he was helping off of Josh Hart he was providing a shadow presence and that allowed Aaron neith to play much tighter to Jaylen Brunson than what Andrew nard could do in the prior two games before they made that adjustment so there are times where I like SE yakum as a RoR but that isn’t even perfect for him so um the pieces around him like Jenny buk as the defensive coordinator Jim boand as the defensive coordinator like I think sometimes people look at the Pacers roster and think that the defensive Personnel that the Pacers should be getting a lot more out of it than they are and a lot of times I look at it and think this is like solving a Rubik’s Cube in terms of getting all of these people into the right spots because of like what we just said like the way that Pascal needs to defend is the opposite of the way that Miles needs to defend and vice versa like it can be challenging I said for a while that the biggest defensive impact Pascal had had nothing to do with him it had everything to do with his size because right then aarin neith was not guarding giant people like Andrew neard was not guarding giant people and so those two were more effective and that made the team more effective even if Pascal himself was not that effective defensively like those two were just better on the end of the floor that’s what I think it was but you know obviously we could see what happens with that next year but everybody remembers the game right before the Trade N hard guarded low marinin and the best option they had yeah lri and buddy I mean buddy was guarding Giannis at times but I mean the fact of the matter is is they went to New Orleans and do you remember who Pascal was guarding Tony her to start that game her Jones oh to start no I don’t Jonas valunas they had miles on Zion Williamson and they had Aaron n Smith on Brandon Ingram there was just a lot of games that you could point to and be like okay like they have Pascal is a wing sized Defender and he’s he’s not doing it and some of that’s because of how much value and importance he brings off offensively but also it’s because like oh we don’t really want Pascal chasing Brandon Ingram over the top of his screen that was one of the most the fact that Brandon Ingram scored 19 on air defense in two seconds of that game that was ridiculous someone text me and was like is this score right like yes have a defensive rebound every possession they took a shot they scored over a whole quarter it’s unbelievable uh that was the most controversial thing we said before the season last year do you remember that you asked me for an both said over and everybody was like oh they got Bruce Brown like they should be better and they were not they were decidedly not no I mean for a large portion they were actually probably worse they finished 24th that’s yeah I mean they yeah progress I mean and some of that too was like Pascal does provide more size as an off ball Defender and I think that that matters at times but also like no offense but they were playing n hard and neith instead of Buddy and maen yes more better Defenders is generally good one more break here guys so we can talk about the lovely folks over at FanDuel summertime means baseball my favorite the finals are over NHL Stanley Cup though all of it all the best the WNBA it’s all over there on FanDuel for you to bet on right now new customers get $200 in bonus Bets with any any winning $ five bet 200 bucks you can use to bet on everything from MVPs of series to who’s going to hit one out of the park to scoring over unders proms money lines whatever you like FanDuel of course has it and if you visit fanduel.com lockon you’ll get that offer and add a big win to your summer bucket list again that’s $200 in bonus Bets with any winning $5 bet fanduel.com lockon that’s on FanDuel America’s number one sports book on that note let’s talk about Obi toppen Obie toppin what a strange and interesting season because the standout thing that everybody talked about with him this is what I wrote about with him too was oh my gosh this transition fit next to Tyrese halberton tyres Halbert in tweets the second the trade is leaked wow it’s gonna be like Patrick Mahomes and um Tyreek Hill and then Obie spent most of the Season not starting next to tyres Halbert and was more effective because man did his shot come along in a meaningful way this season and I did not see that coming at all which was absolutely huge for his ability to fit in with the Pacers and that’s and that’s where I’m starting is with that in my clips for two reasons one because of what it allowed toppen to do Beyond his shot and two is because he’s very good at a niche thing that I just want to talk about Obi toppen is the only player that I can think of that gets on his tippy toes for his shot fakes and I don’t know why he does that but it works it makes guys more likely to jump at him in some ways and so both of my Clips are Obi catching from three one’s against the Knicks in the post season gets on his tippy toes Defender flies by him he dribbles in takes a or hits a three from the corner the other ones against the Raptors in the regular season same thing catches on the left wing shot fakes Defender jumps lunges at him puts it on the floor drives and dunks so two things one his technique on those is very cool and I find that to be endlessly fascinating that he’s able to go from on his tiptoes to on the Move forwards very quickly but the other factor of that is those don’t work at all if his shot doesn’t come no one is b or well maybe some times occasionally in the regular season but that first one’s in the postseason like no one is biting on that pump fake for the shooter he was before this right prior to the season he had two seasons barely over 30% and then 34 he was 32.5% this year on more volume per minute play uh about the same he was at over 40 right the only guy in the league right who was at over 70 from Two and over 40 from three that mattered so much on how he was defended and made him a much better halfcourt fit than I foresaw entering the season and it helped him only with the three but with the rest of the shots because of the way he was defended he was far from the basket yes I mean the fact of the matter is when he left the Knicks it was very easy to make the argument on behalf of the Knicks that like hey he’s attempting more threes than ever he’s screening less than ever he’s getting fewer paint touches than ever if that’s the role that tibs is gonna use him in then it just makes more sense to give those minutes to Dante d venzo right and for most intents and purposes the Knicks probably still feel that way and if you look at the Pacers though like I anticipated that like he might be used as a screener a little bit more because he will be out there with Tyrese and TJ like maybe he will get more paint touches and it turns out he did like he was slightly used more as the screener and certainly like in game six of against the buck series when I thought you know he was pretty much Majestic like great game from him he did have like a little push shot in the lane where he is used as the role man like even the most optimistic Nicks fans watching that were like hey this is all coming together but as you mentioned like his three-point attempt rate well not as high as his final season with with the Knicks was quite High and the reason why that worked is because of the work that he put in on his shot and also like it wasn’t just standstill threes like some of it was him sprinting in transition and being able to find that balance to stay on balance and let the ball go which is a big thing because of how angular he is and then also like there were a few occasions where you might see him you know move uphill like I will say that like I would like to see what his flyby close out rate is because I do think that you’re right that he is good at drawing those but he’s somewhat similar to n Smith in that like I think 90% of his threes were without a dribble this year so he’s still not going to necessarily completely leverage that I don’t think his Drive rate was super high either I don’t know particularly in the playoffs like it’s like five drives per 100 possessions or something like that but the fact that he was able to hit spot up threes and there was a reaction to it where teams weren’t like Hey we’re going to Sag way off of Pascal or Pascal off of top and when he’s standing in the corner like yeah like I think that he deserves a lot of credit for the work that he put in in that regard yeah and I don’t know what you constitute or what anyone constitute as a drive per se but like he would occasionally break out like a Wonder dble move and then take an elbow jumper or a shot in the paint and every time I’d go whoa and then I’d be like oh yeah that’s like all he did at Dayton was like that exact shot like that’s what he got to the NBA being a master of but like his percentages from those ranges are okay you know it it it seems natural to me that similar to with n Smith although different in in practice because of the way they move and the shots they get like if he can run guys off the line like he was amazing in the paint this season and like pretty good from short mid-range like if that’s a thing where he can shoot well enough to add a counter to the way he’s defended that’s huge it’s just the fact that I was always surprised when it happen says a lot about how in frequently it happened even though it’s not like something he’s never done before in his life so I’ll be curious how much he mixes that in especially as maybe like Pascal shooting from those ranges makes it a bigger part of the Pacers offense but they would get to that shot in way different ways yeah because I mean Obie was definitely an elite play finisher it’s just that most of it is play finishing and that’s why these two guys are so different because I think that you could word it as OB definitely built out their strengths and Pascal filled some of their voids that’s the way that I would look at them them differently because like I said Obie his unassisted made field goal percentage was 11% which was even lower than Ben Shepard’s during the playoffs so but on the other hand of that he was the first Pacer in Pacers history to have 100 dunks and 100 made threes that was my favorite stat to track because he was off by like three dunks headed into the final game against the Hawks and he made perfect opponent yeah and like the only other two players in the NBA who did that this year like it’s it’s harder than you think so wemi and Chad did it and obviously those aren’t three you know that’s that’s the big three right there the league the closest player I think for the Pacers that got there is Jermaine O’Neal and the davises had over 100 dunks but not none of them are even close to having 100 threes but Paul George had 71 dunks one of the seasons that he was there so that would have been about the closest so having somebody especially in this type of an offense who can do those two things in particular definitely what they were doing and like you said like he ended up playing Off the Bench I think a lot of his minutes still end up being somewhat Tethered to tyres every game yeah because Tyrese was playing a lot of those minutes with TJ coming in so there was like a swing of like 4 per for Obie on twos where he did shoot better when he was got the ball from Tyrese but um it ended up being pretty seamless like obviously he and he and TJ were two of the best bench scores in the NBA in the playoffs so and and we can nitpick these count but like he finished third in the league in true shooting this season right like it’s not like this place he finished were were pathetic and the thing that stands out about that specifically is of the top 10 he had the second highest three-point attempt rate this past season one of only two guys over 40 all of them are centers Kelly oen kind of a Center Grayson Allen beat him and that says a lot about Grayson Allen how well he shot from three this year that he finished check in true shooting percentage like ob’s in that group it was Gafford who never missed a shot ever I think when I watched the MS in the regular season Grayson Allen and Obie so like yeah there’s Pro every player can make progress and like get better cters to Defenders but he was still a wonderful play finisher and that changed how he was guarding a meaningful way because I was I mean I remember it like every discussion it felt like last summer when talking about the P free agency was like whoa Bruce Brown and Obi Topp and were top whatever in transition finishing last year and that’s our style it’s gonna be great and it’s like okay but what like that’s part of the game but like they have to fit in in the half court too I thought Obie did a better job than Bruce of evolving in that aspect of playing with Pacers which was significant to me certainly because I mean you can look at the series that the Knicks played against the Heat where like they were using Mitchell Robinson to stand in the dunker spot and Obie would run off of him because he was so often being guarded by Duncan Robinson as the weakest you know offensive threat and he would run off of Mitchell Robinson in the dunker spot to get to the corner and to his credit he had worked on being a quicker trigger three-point shooter but a lot of times Defenders weren’t following him through those exit screens and now when he was coming off of exits with the Pacers he was there was gravity there like the defender was following him so yeah when I think of efficient players I put Obi top and above yic every time so the these are this is the only stat that matters in Thea all right my one number is actually kind of a a couple similar to my Ben sheer it’s a couple numbers that all kind of mean the same thing uh and I really wanted to focus on OB at the five for this because I do I do wonder about what that is or what part of the future of Obi toop and with the Pacers that’s a part of so the number I would start with with is uh 0.1 that is the Pacers regular season net rating with Obi to and on and none of Turner Jackson Smith and I put Tyson there to be thorough on the floor right that’s not very good now let me break that down a little bit because you’ll hear the first number and smile and then hear the second one and frown or maybe even throw up their offensive rating in the regular season with Obie to at at Center is amazing 128. four their defensive rais we they’ll be top at at Center in the season is what 28.3 that’s awful and it’s kind of reasonable to me for some of the reasons we just talked about that both of those numbers are actually real and so is that actually a thing you can rely on a a net neutral lineup situation like maybe if they can score at that level it certainly has utility if it’s that good on offense but is this is this actually a thing or did it become a thing because of matchup and need in the postseason that’s what I wonder and then to build off of that in the playoffs the reason it worked is their defense was actually good in those by rating it was not good in in practice we watch the games it was a 112 defensive rating in the playoffs 117.8 on offense so that’s much better so is that actually a thing is it actually better in a playoff setting or is it just a small sample thing where because we saw it in the Celtics series that lineup could not defend at all it was useless against Boston so what what that lineup’s utility is kind of says a lot about what topen can be for this team in the future because of what they have in the front corner they could have in future seasons can I ask a question that I don’t have the number in front of me but maybe you do I’ll try to pull it up as fast as possible if I don’t go ahead what were the numbers with Obi at the five when Pascal was out there too I’m on it without another play regular season or both either one okay uh yes respond to what I just said while I typed that in very quickly I think that it was def I mean after game one against Milwaukee I was very adant that they needed to not play Jaylen or IX again and part because you know Bobby poris at the five galinari at the five they were doing a lot of switching it felt like a situation of the Pacers are going to need to go smaller and see if they can outscore those units which is what it ended up happening I also felt like it was useful at times potentially against Boston with the difference being is I felt like they both under reacted and overreacted to when the Celtics made the adjustment to play O’Shea Brett at the five like just because they’re playing a spread unit doesn’t mean that you need to spread the defense out that far and pay that level of respect OA when he’s standing out beyond the three-point line and then meanwhile they weren’t necessarily leveraging their size heavily during those minutes and it was somewhat telling again that like there’s a unit out there with you know Pascal Obie whoever and it’s Ben Shepard guarding Jason Tatum instead of either one of them but like to your point there’s going to be two things about Obi toppin in the playoffs that I take away and I’m going to remember and be thinking about when if they potentially resign and keep Obi toppen as a restricted free agent game six against Milwaukee because that series went from you know Pascal in games one and two really punishing the cross match against Brook Lopez to the point where they put Brook Lopez back on Miles then for like the next couple games it became very much about the Tyrese Brook Lopez pick and roll threat combination until Doc Rivers is like Hey we’re g to switch everything and then in that game six it became very much about the role players and what Aaron D Smith and TJ and Obie did because of that and that was valuable to the Pacers that they had that degree of depth where it’s like hey we just need to be more egalitarian get the ball moving against these switches and those guys show up when they needed him to to the point where we’re watching Obie like hit a couple transition threes we’re seeing him make the push shot in the lane he’s running out he’s dribbling up hill and making a pass around Chris Middleton’s ear with his left hand where that’s another thing about Obie he keeps the ball moving very well and and connects to the next play as a connector in ways that I don’t think he always gets credit for but then the other thing that sticks out in my mind as you referenced is that game four against Boston where the Pacers didn’t feel comfortable playing Miles Turner they took him out with 354 to play because of the back stiffness or whatever else was going on and they went small with Obi and Pascal out there and two possessions in a row Obie’s guarding Al Horford they went and had Al Horford be the screener so that then they could run High split action and Obi ends up getting beat Tatum attacks him in space he’s at The Rim next possession Jaylen Brown does exactly the same thing and like what I mentioned before is that like seum is a guy who can defend the screener and switch out to the ball and you’re okay with him and contain that doesn’t necessarily apply to Obi in these situations so like According to second Spectrum when top was the The Defender switching out as the screener defender in the playoffs the PAC gave up 1.36 points per chance for seak that was 0.813 points per chance so that Series against Boston was going to be tough for Obi because for certain physical limitations like I told you it’s almost like he doesn’t have hips he’s very incredibly athletic at moving in straight lines he struggles with backward mobility and especially when he has to change directions with backward Mobility so the Pacers needed to be able to switch they couldn’t really do that with Miles Turner they couldn’t really do it with Obi but also for necessary reasons because they were struggling to score at the end of those games they went with Obie rather than Isaiah Jackson because they wanted to be able to still juice their offense and it just that didn’t play in their favor yeah in my own head that’s what I would have done and I said that throughout the series like I would always be adjusting for offense but clearly it did not work in the Celtics because they’re the Celtics and they’re the best team right just picked it apart so to answer the question you asked um there were only two minutes that he played at the five without Pascal the whole playoffs so basically the numbers I said are exactly okay in those settings I actually can’t believe there were two minutes that that happened because I don’t remember them and now I want to figure out what the lineup actually was in the regular season if you make sure Pascal’s involved instead of a plus very small net rating it’s a 131.5 offensive rating that’s phenomenal and a 122 defensive rating so that pairing is very good right but what does that mean who isn’t in the game is also a question about what that means and I mean and that’s a part why I kind of when we did the Cent one I kind of anticipated whenever we were talking about it like hey Jaylen Smith very well might not take his player option because Isaiah already usurped him during the playoff run and the Pacers felt comfortable enough to be playing Obi Pascal at this five position and another thing that we didn’t necessarily talk about here too is is in the nick series Obie was playing a lot at the three like they were playing Isaiah Pascal and Obie at the same time right so they they had flexibility offensively with the two of them and things that they did not necessarily tons of defensive flexibility with either one of them albeit for much different reasons and that’s why I wonder about it because we hinted at it and I’ve talked about it like it one way to play jarus would be Obi at the five in the future is this actually a tenable thing well with Pascal it seems like it but without him no not really so that is part of I think has to be part of their Calculus if they do that sort of thing and how they prioritize that um okay so to answer a question I just asked myself would you like to know the two lineups that featured at the five without Pascal in the postseason I’m guessing that it might have been like during garbage time when jerus was playing or when they like one was kend brown out there one what one does have Kendall Brown okay this one was not garbage time but I don’t remember it one was halberton nard Walker Shephard toppen that was in game two game one uh April 23rd against the Bucks and the other one yes was McConnell Shepard Walker Brown and top and that one is very clearly garbage time I don’t remember this first one at all I’d have to go back and look anyway that did happen these are lineups that existed in aosst season setting uh okay as we do here when I don’t know what to talk about and it’s not that I don’t know what to talk about it’s that this is kind of the best indication of was what they did good enough to firmly plant their flag as a Pacer long term are over under can be two things uh I’ll make it the easy one it’s one it’s a 0. five contract signed with the Pacers this summer [Music] I lean the over I think that they will likely think that he fits their strengths well enough to retain him and to the front office’s credit obviously you track things about the salary cap in front office moves much more closely than I do but I can’t think of many bad contracts that the Indiana Pacers have signed in this front office’s tenure so I’m guessing it’s a reasonable one that will lend them flexibility if they think that they need to make a different move somewhere down the line being said when I was watching that Celtic series and it certainly is not fair to pair or to pin all of the defensive issues on Obi even in those late game situations I can squint my eyes and think of a future where if they were back in that situation again where if jarus reaches what you think jarus can be that as an archetype he would have made more sense in some of those lineups so it’s interesting in that regard that maybe maybe what Chad said ends up being correct that maybe they find a way to play jarus some at the three next year but I don’t think Boston’s really going anywhere and I don’t think you necessarily shape your roster around one specific opponent because you may not play that opponent again but I do think that the Celtics are going to be there and they need to have a more feasible way to switch and that was very difficult with Miles and Obi in that Series yeah so to your first point I mean all their worst contracts they’ve had with this front office because Monte Alis was the old one which is no not worthy because that’s the worst one they’ve had in 15 years probably are ones that they either drafted like TJ Lee for googa or traded for like Tristan Thompson uh that’s not even that bad I guess Ty the other Celtics guys they got in that deal so they don’t sign or they have not signed and they’ve shown good restraint too bad deals probably the worst one they’ve signed was a one-year Tyre Gans deal right like I just flip back through all the years that I’ve had it I don’t know I I’m sure I could pick something else maybe but you know like the worst one I thought they signed was McConnell’s current deal and that looks awesome right like this front office has been pretty good with foresight of the deals they’ve signed maybe you could argue mcdermit I I don’t know anyway all this to say I do agree that they are very good at picking and choosing the right battles and setting hard limits when it comes to negotiating so with toen is a restricted free agent it’s hard for me to imagine where it gets too high because he’s not in the tier of restricted free agent where teams are like tripping all over themselves for an offer sheet and offer sheets keep going down and down every year so it seems like the route to the him being on a reasonably priced deal with the Pacers is there and I kind of think in the Pacers Market if you have a at worst neutral value contract you keep the player rights especially if you like the way they fit and to and Chad banan said the business part matters but they would like to continue their relationship and all the reasons they acquired Obi toppen came to fruition more also happened now granted they made it so far right the Peter principal comes into play they made it so far they got enough promotions that they hit their cap of what topin Effectiveness was so does that deter them from doing it and then the jerus Walker factor is the other one of like you just drafted this guy in the lottery how but to me where jarus comes in is where you set your price limit right like if it’s such a good deal then you just do it anyway so I am with you I lean over I think he’s a good fit what I what I think the most interesting part of Obie’s contract will be is how long it is not how much it is because maybe he plays well again and he can be restricted and get more maybe he wants to get to seven years I I don’t know and he’s 26 already so that is more interesting to me than the number because he’s restricted I will be very curious where it lands but my current prediction is that it is with the facers so I’ll say one despite the stuff we talked about I mean I think that the jarus question with regards to both Pascal and Obie is probably the most interesting one and especially with Obie’s deal because can you still find ways for him to play is he ready to play like I’ll I’ll be able to provide more of an update on that once I’ve seen him at Summer League I think that will be sorry to cut you off but that’s why I brought up the center numbers because that would be the easiest route but it might not even exist I mean otherwise you’re pretty much probably making a choice between him or Ben Shepard exactly in the second unit and like I said they needed somebody who can defend wings and do some switching which is what you’re hoping that at some point Jared can do there were spots where that looked decent for the Pacers certainly in the game against the Clippers it looked like something that a role that jarus will fill there’ll be other games where it looks like he’s pretty far from being able to do that so then it becomes a patience thing like right now you have Obi toppen who suits the things that you do you just made it to the Eastern Conference Finals how long are you willing to wait for jarus to become that but also if you resign Obi toppen and you don’t find a means for jarus to play this is still a need that you have like and you didn’t find another way of addressing it so and it’d be very easy for them to say and not be lying we’re trying to win we’re not trying to develop right now you know like I I’m receptive to that so then what do you do with the guy you just picked in the lottery last year like it it’s kind of unique about their situation what makes this conversation fascina it’s so rare for team to go Lottery Conference Finals right like that that gives your team an odd blend of young development and like oh we’re good like what do we do now and I guess this summer The conse quences of that may not come to Bear Just because their paths are at least pretty simple and don’t have a ton of opportunity cost like next summer especially I think it’s going to be like oh man you know what do we do with this reality if they don’t do something by then even so Obi is currently the face of that but next year the faces of that will be I don’t mean this in any negative way to OB be but like more consequential pieces of the team and so that that is the interesting contract situation that they’re in and why I asked at X interviews like hey you guys just went from like talking about your long-term planning to like in the final four teams in the league and maybe play the Celtics better than anybody like what what do you do how do you how do you how do you handle this and I I kind of feel like Topp in this summer is the face of it so that’s why I sometimes I think the contract stuff can be a not not a cop out I don’t like to pick them for my over under even though they are very revealing but in this case it is the most important one I think and rant I have nothing else to add on the power forwards uh James Johnson was a a great teammate I have little to add on James Johnson power forward he is a great person to be around I very much enjoy talking to him you have any James Johnson analysis I I don’t other than I did think it was funny when he wore the security hat because I did I did tweet out I mean the timing of them bringing him back was quite funny and at the time when I saw it I did tweet looking to beef up the security it seems and then he were look look I understand you might have been working on a deal with James Johnson for a while but you still did sign him one day after that game after like like both things I think are the timing of it was amusing and him wearing the Hat was also amusing over under 1.5 security heads worn next season by James Johnson over under meetings with him in Miami to see if well actually this time the roster spot situation makes it a lot easier to decide that way before Camp so they want back just get it over with uh yeah I have nothing else to add there great dude if they take him back I totally understand four out of five Caitlyn this was great we’ll do point guards for our last one of these and we’ll have it done by next week starting I keep cashing all my podcasts by saying I have no idea what the schedule’s going to be now the finals are over it should be easier but we haven’t as of this time heard much on the free agency front um you are adding way more comments to these the clips and everything we’re saying where can people find all of that right so you can see if you’re watching us on YouTube my ex handles at C2 Cooper the link to my patreons there patreon.com basketball she wrote and what Tony said’s accurate so I’m doing written blurbs on every player where I think that there’s going to be some numbers that you’re going to see in those paragraphs that you aren’t going to find anywhere else and then just addressing some of the things that you’re going to see in the clips especially like if you didn’t fully follow my explanation of what they were doing on some of those empty side pick and rolls I I’ve annotated some of it to give greater in-depth explanation because that that in fact was my favorite play of the playoffs for the reasons that I laid out so that’s unlocked because I want people to be able to read that in addition to watching these videos so head over there that’s the content plann for June and then if I’m lucky I’m gonna try to twist Tony’s arm to come over and do my monthly mail bag with me next week got to get my treats in order um yeah sometimes I feel like when I’m describing like OB top shot faking for people I’m like do I sound like the adult in Charlie Brown to people listening to this podcast right now just oh horn sound of nothing because you can’t actually see what I’m saying but people really do seem to enjoy these uh check out Kaylin’s patreon for everything even Beyond this series as a paid subscriber I cannot recommend it enough and I love that it comes to my email because I used to be a tabs guy for reading and I hated it and emailing has changed my life um to I just said this but tomorrow we’ll see you might be getting this episode you might be getting another player review episode you might be getting uh they signed this guy episode we’ll see uh follow Kaylin’s work I’m on X or whatever at Tony R East sharing nonsense there about the fever and Pacers since the NBA’s done get into the deut it’s a fun season for it thank you all for listening today have a wonderful day see you very soon

Pascal Siakam and Obi Toppin were both valuable for the Inidana Pacers during the 2023-24 season. How were they important? What is next for them? Host Tony East is joined by Caitlin Cooper from Basketball, She Wrote (https://www.patreon.com/basketballshewrote) to continue their season review series and look at two four men.

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