What’s Next for Jarrett Allen? (Fear the Fro) Cleveland Cavaliers news, Cavs

What’s Next for Jarrett Allen? (Fear the Fro) Cleveland Cavaliers news, Cavs

this is the moment we’ve all been waiting for for the thousands independants and the millions watching around the [Applause] world let’s get ready [Applause] [Music] for Welcome to the junkyard pod today we are continuing our series of what’s next where we take a look at what to expect from various Cav players moving into the summer joining me today alongside my co-host Jackson Flickinger I could think of no one better to have on the show to discuss the future of Jared Allen than someone who the future of the fro May directly impact and that would be Bob Schmidt of the fear the fro podcast Bob thanks so much for joining today feel like this collab was long overdue absolutely I’m excited to be here I I’ve wanted to talk with you guys for quite a while yeah say here I mean I’ve really been looking forward to this and this was just the perfect way for us to do it and look Bob is one of the best Twitter follows truly one of the most creative people covering the Cavs if you really want some fun and unique Cavs coverage I can’t recommend the fear the fro podcast enough and hey I’ll have the links in the description to his Twitter just in case there’s a brand change that becomes necessary but we’ll get into that soon enough because I do want to say quickly before we get started today that if you enjoy the junkyard pod please consider hitting subscribe and and dropping a like to help out the channel we truly appreciate it and just doing those two things goes a long way to support this content so thank you so much in advance and getting back to the matter at hand uh I’d like to start each one of these episodes by briefly summarizing the season that we just saw for Jared Allen especially I would say it was a Bittersweet one uh so I want to pass this off to Bob and get us started can you just give us your general thoughts on the season we just saw from Jared Allen I thought it was fantastic up until you know the last week and a half two weeks unfortunately which uh it it that’s the rough part is that I spent so much of last summer frustrated with all the discourse surrounding him uh and his place on the team and his value to the team that I can’t think of a season going much better than this one did for Allen up until he got hurt in the playoffs because the regular season not only were the numbers great but his impact in that time when we needed him and Mitchell the most to be great he strung together a fantastic run of basketball He was largely healthy outside of those first five games or so uh until the very end I mean he strung together what 81 games in a row and then to have it end like it did uh it’s disappointing but on on the bright side I do think that regardless of how Cavs fans feel necessarily I know there’s a lot of them who are have their criticisms of his toughness or or just think that his fit isn’t right and so in that way maybe they’re not as high on him as Outsiders would be I think that’s the nice part is that I don’t think the injury or his willingness to you know take a shot or any of those storylines I don’t think that those are really prominent storylines amongst people who would be interested in acquiring a Jared Allen so if there is a positive it’s that I can understand the disappointment I’m disappointed too he was absolutely murdering people uh in that or Orlando series and the early part of this playoff so I thought that we were going to escape this season with him having dispatched all of the criticisms that lingered from the Knick series um I don’t think we have now but uh I also don’t think that’s entirely warranted so I I was very happy uh with Jared Allen because if we’re in a world where we’re talking about him as a possible Expendable piece and he’s coming off arguably his best season then I don’t think that’s a bad position to be in as a Cavalier fan even if you are primarily a Jared Allen fan maybe that’s a worst position to be in but as a Cavalier fan as a whole I don’t think it’s a bad situation to be in I think it’s really good that you started talking about where we were at this time last year and where people thought he needed to improve and I think like rebounding is something that I thought he did an exceptional job of this season uh you just look at the numbers uh the Cs were in a 75th percentile in defensive rebounds when he was on the floor that is huge they also like we saw in that stretch especially that stretch without moley in the middle of the Season he did a much better job of I thought handling the ball especially uh with those dribble handoffs at like the top of the arc and I thought he was a lot more comfortable in those positions and that’s something that I think Moy and him struggled with in that Series against the Knicks so with someone like Jared Allen you’re not going to see like the huge jumps in terms of like oh he’s now a three-point shooter oh now he’s added this crazy thing to his Arsenal but you just want him to keep getting better at the things that he’s already good at and I think we did I think he did that this season and I think that’s what is most encouraging and and that run in the middle of the Season really solidified that he can be you know if he’s on a team with more spacing I think he just looks even better yeah you I mean you spoke to even just the marginal improvements stuff that we don’t turn to him to always have to do but nearly doubled his assist percentage lowest turnover percentage of his career all those things were I mean they’re not they don’t they don’t get the headlines but they’re all big parts of being able to and and this is I mean this is one of the subjects that makes the whole topic of of breaking up the front Court um difficult to to think of is because while there’s obviously going to be definite upsides from taking any player at Jared Allen’s level and shopping him and seeing okay well is there other people that could come back uh having so there’s a lot of things in which the redundancy proved to be such a blessing to be able I don’t know if anyone going into that stretch where Moy went down thought that Allen was G to be as integral in running stuff from the high post as he was during that whole stretch and we’ve always known you know he’s a better screener than Moy at this point but the passing in that stretch and the dribble handoff game that he brought when we were very short-handed was so much Beyond any that I expected it it’s similar in a way to how I kind of felt coming into the season withu where we had this idea of what he would be or or our our purpose behind getting him as far as you know movement shooting and gravity and all that and then for him to bring all the the ancillary skills the creation the you know pick and roll game with Moy and then with Allen and the secondary rebounding and all that stuff that was stuff that was you know found money and I thought we got a lot of that with Jared Allen in that injury stretch too when it came to his ability to kind of operate with the ball in his hands a little bit at the high post I think also it’s really good to also point out how much chemistry he showed with Mitchell and how that really just spurred on everything I feel like we’ve seen at times and this is maybe more of a Mitchell conversation that he’s sort of struggled to get the big men involved but he really found a nice flow with Jared Allen there in the middle of the season and that kind of brought out the best of both players in a way that you you want your best players to do and I think that’s when we’re trying to evaluate the Cavs that’s one of the things that is really important to come back to is that like probably the best Chemistry Between the core 4 was really between Mitchell and Allen this season and if you’re going to you know take take Allen out of the picture then you are losing something that was really impactful yeah no absolutely it’s it’s one of oh I’m sorry Tony I didn’t mean to step on Oh no you’re good I was just gonna make a joke I was going to say in a season where the power of friendship was so vital the two best friends Allan and Mitchell they really helped steer the ship especially during that stretch when Moy and Garling went down yeah and I think it speaks to you know so much focus goes on the numbers and the pairings and the you know the Staggering the Garland and and you know uh Moy are better and Allen and Mitchell are better but Allen and Mitchell are the only ones consistently when those two on with the other two off that just despite relatively disappointing analytics from both playoff runs they’ve done so well together in the minutes that they’ve amassed in the regular season that all of the samples the combined sample the regular season sample the playoff sample all of them are you know north of a plus seven net rating so that that’s definitely something that I think a lot of people just Cruise past um but I don’t think people should take it for granted this idea that the future is Mitchell and Moy I’m not saying that that can’t work and I don’t put everything in into net ratings but I do think that there’s a certain element of taking how good Allen is for granted because he’s not some you know New Breed stretch five type he he gets things the oldfashioned way I think it’s really important to highlight that little piece that you did about Moy and Mitchell just you can’t just assume that because it worked with Allen it can work with with um Mo just because we’ve seen throughout Mitchell’s career you know he struggled with Rudy goar and the times that he has played with just Moy out there I think they haven’t found that same chemistry and that’s not saying that they won’t ever find that same chemistry or that they couldn’t find that same chemistry but you can’t assume certain things and I think that’s just really important to keep in the front of your mind when you’re talking about splitting uh like splitting up this core yeah and I mean we’ve talked to the strength of both tandems together that’s another thing is that you know you don’t even regardless of who gets whether it’s Allen whether it’s Garland whether it’s Allen and Garland whether it’s nobody um they this idea that it’s like okay you’re not just then focusing on that Twan pairing whoever it may be whether it’s Mitchell and Moy or whether it’s Garland and Moy you’re taking away one of the biggest strengths at least analytically speaking of this Cavs team in the past two years is that they have consistantly been able to separate those pairings stagger their minutes and generate very posit POS lineups even when the other two members of the core were off the floor which I get can be argued as a negative you’re saying well we’re wasting you know money allotment and and positional versatility on guys that are essentially you know Supreme staggering options um but I would say that I I I wouldn’t fight anyone who feels definitively that way on that opinion I would just say that it shouldn’t just be cast out again because we’ve grown accustomed to it because we live through the years when you know the moment LeBron was off the floor it was just a slow bleed until we had to ask him to you know play Hero again and I do think there’s a certain amount of we know our health is not something that we can guarantee so this idea that you know we have Expendable pieces of the core four it’s a risk it’s a risk that last year when Mo and Garland went down on basically hours apart uh we could find ourselves in a future situation where we have even less to prop up those rosters uh if we decide to do this fundamental shift of top end talent for you know overall role player depth that some people seem that they would prefer yeah I think that was very well said both of you really hit on basic that was a perfect recap of Allen season and how valuable he was I mean something that I’ve been saying a lot is that last year if you go back and imagine if they had traded Allen and then this season plays out the way it did with Moy and Garing getting injured I don’t know how well they’re able to keep things uh float if that happens now of course that’s a big hypothetical but really uh if you just look back at how low everyone had fallen on Allen last year for him to return and dispel all those narratives throughout the year perhaps he would have totally did it had it not been for the vagnar hitting him with a few elbows but uh all throughout the year Allen was gritty he was tough he was reliable he was durable again until right up to the end and all of those adjectives that were used against him last year became his strengths and really it is it’s just a shame that his playoff run was cut short because he was having such a dominant start to the postseason and I can only imagine what he might have looked like against Boston with their lack of Rim protection and that series uh nonetheless Allen in my book I think completely redeemed himself uh and to even go further just his time here in Cleveland so far he’s been one of the most enjoyable players I can recall being a Cavalier and so I’ve really was a great year for Allen uh surpassed my expectations I I was hoping for him to have a bounceback season and I think he did even better than I would have imagined uh to transition to something already one one thing real quick to I think bringing up that Celtics series I think is a really interesting hypothetical because it felt like the Cavs had an advantage inside especially you know since since porzingis was out and one of the things that we don’t know is like if you are playing those two big lineups can you really take advantage of a smaller team like that in a in a playoff setting and I think that would have been really important because when I think about you know some of the things that Bob was talking about with like the depth of being able to stagger guys and stuff I think of that being more of a regular season Advantage where it’s like you know what you’re getting every night you know you’re going to be able to put out 48 good minutes of you know basketball whereas in the playoffs you kind of want to Max maximize your five best players or like your like your group of best five guys and seeing a playoff where like a playoff series against a better team but one that you might have an advantage against I think would have been really helpful and it’s just a shame that Kobe’s going to have to go into this offseason and make some decisions based off of something that he you know we weren’t able to actually see yeah I I felt a lot of that watching the kind of success that Moy had against Derek white because when we got into those regular season series against the Celtics and we would see how frequently the Celtics will just switch everything regardless of you know size mismatches and disadvantages you would you would get guards you would get guys like holiday and I know holiday and wher you know they’re exceptional Defenders but I would have loved to have the ability to try to to punish that just as an alternative to what’s a very difficult ask of even if Donovan was healthy having to go against the kind of length and Wing Defenders that that team could Trot out it is the other thing that’s an interesting parallel is now with Chris TAPS in this situation he’s in I know they’re up 20 but I wonder if he’s going to get I I don’t really wonder he won’t but because people have come to expect him being hurt but this whole conversation about taking shots and playing through the pain and what when do you bring him back like do you ask him to do it if Dallas rips off a win or a couple wins here um that’s something I’m interested to see how it plays out because in some ways it is similar to I feel like the criticism for Allan grew as our Outlook got Bleaker so you know justifiably so I understand but it’s disappointing and this episode will go up after the finals so it’s good you didn’t make any bold predictions there because it could have came back to haunt you but uh no I think you made a good point there and really that’s that’s the most frustrating part of not only Allen season but the way the Cav season ended in general is just that they had a prime opportunity to really see what this core for could do in that series and just kind of lost the opportunity with Mitchell and Allen being injured um but to move us into our next topic and we’ve kind of already touched on this Jackson hit on it at the top something that surprised me was the way that Allen improved I think it’s something that most of us knew was possible but we just kind of assumed that Allen had reached his ceiling during that All-Star campaign but we saw him venture outside of his comfort zone at various points I think of his increased usage operating dribble handoffs his comfort handling the ball occasionally even stepping out to knock down knock down that free throw line jumper uh and I think Allen has consistently grown as a defensive anchor and an offensive player I think he could continue to improve even if it seems like he’s closer to his ceiling than most prospects uh the swing factor of course is always chasing that Dragon of somehow extending his range to the three-point line I wouldn’t predict that again I’m not going to write him off entirely free throw line the free throw uh shooting has always been good for him so it’s not impossible but and you know I think really confidence goes a long way this is a broader complaint we’ve had with the Cavs development but if Allen had the freedom to do more things not only shooting the three-pointer but just handle the ball a little more maybe we would have seen this come out of him sooner I think being able to handle the ball and create plays for others is just as important for a modern big man as the three-point shot if you can operate a triple handoff do some of the Ed stuff with your Center above the break that’s really valuable and I truly think Allen has the coordination to do some of those things now how much better can he get I’m not sure so I want to pass this off to Jackson do you think Allen can continue to grow as a player and if so where would you like him to focus his development this summer um I mean I don’t think he’s going to develop as a shooter I mean that’s really not a path that you see people his age take unless you’re you know Brook Lopez um which is a oneofone situation so I don’t I wouldn’t say that but I would like to see him kind of operate more in the high post it just makes it kind of tough sometimes when you’re trying to figure out lineups with one Mo and then the lineups without Moy can you know be a little unpredictable in terms of what you’re getting on a nightly basis from some of the Cavs role players so I think that Allen does have a like we’ve complained a lot about some of the Cavs prospects not having the most well-rounded game I think Allen does have a well-rounded game even though it’s in the traditional Center mold so I think just getting better at the things that he’s already good at getting more comfortable you know defending out in space not saying that he’s bad at that but just you know getting more comfortable at that getting more comfortable at attacking switches you know like these little things like that just improving just slightly I think that’s what turned you from a really good player to a great player and that’s that like those are the areas that I’d like to see Allan kind of focus on and that it’s not the most exciting answer but uh that’s just kind of how I see it I I share I share a lot of the same feelings I think my pessimism is just the opportunities he’s gonna have to to get those reps in game because I think to a certain extent we saw when Moy came back a lot of the stuff that was happening in the stretch when he wasn’t there was not stuff we turn to Allen for um you know operating more out of the high post and then even in the dribble handoffs the the volume of those went down significantly after Moy was back in the mix and I think there’s just such a priority on people wanting to see the development from Mo which I don’t always agree with necessarily it’s not an argument I’ll ever win but I think there’s plenty of stuff that we’re looking to get more from the Moy that we already have perhaps a better current version of from Allen even if it’s not an elite high-end one like you know clearly Mo’s a little more fluid and faster moving um but his handle could be improved his ability to I think he’s getting better in the realm of you know creating contact with people and not getting quite as dislodged as he was early on um but Allen still has a size advantage in that regard he’s very good with both hands um in a way that I think you know Moy could get to um but I think Mo’s a little more comfortable kind of fading those like middle of the lane jump shots um for Allen I think I think all the skills are there not in an elite level I think in a lot of ways he’s very good at almost everything uh outside of the range element of it uh it’s just he’s not Elite at any one thing so I don’t know that he’s going to get those opportunities because I still think there’s a certain element of the team banking on the you know the physical profile of an Evan and hoping that with a little bit more agility and and speed that there’s there’s a higher ceiling than what there is maybe on an allen yeah no I mean I I agree with that and that’s why like Allen he just turned 26 uh and so theoretically you assume that he could improve uh but really I think it’s it’s going to be less of taking like any leaps as much as it’s just going to be polishing the stuff that he’s already good at seeing how much better he can get at operating with the ball in his hands now of course he might not get that opportunity in Cleveland and so I do want to transition this conversation to something somewhat related here and let’s frame it this way let’s say Allen does not make any substantial leap meaning you know this most recent season is the peak version of what we can come to expect I think a good question to ask is how valuable is a player like Allen at the end of the day we’re talking essentially a rim Running Center who can anchor an elite defense uh might have some offensive limitations when it comes to coexisting in lineups that don’t feature for other Shooters uh so basically just not a guy who might fit in every situation but is that archetype still something that NBA teams value what’s your take on this Bob well I mean if you want to look at the two guys that are hitting free agency this summer I I definitely think we’re hearing a lot of conversation about what is the worth of of a guy like a hartenstein or Nick Claxton and hartenstein I hear him anywhere from I hear his hometown discount number around 177 million I hear oh if Oklahoma City is gonna lure him in we’re talking 20 mil and up so I definitely think a player like Allen is valuable he may not carstein can pass he’s not necessarily the spacer either but he does a lot of extra things in the offense that I think Allen has shown he can do um to a certain extent when he’s given the opportunity and Allen is of course an elite defensive anchor uh so in that regard I definitely think guys like that have value that’s why I would say my concern is that he’s too valuable that we won’t find oursel in a situation where when he hits his next contract because we there’s no more restricted free agency Advantage we’re going to be bidding against people who are truly giving him offers that are based on them making him the focal big not part of a to Big tandem so you can very much make the argument that his Worth to someone else will be very taxing for us to match when his contract is here so for all the conversations we have about the fit and all these things my advocacy for getting a different big in here would be to just prepare for the future because you essentially have a two-year Runway where he’s still on this $20 million contract and it has nothing to do with my love for his game or my belief that he has a very long-term place a big Runway ahead of him in the NBA it’s just I think he might be a little bit too valuable for what teams would be willing to pay him where what you’re going to have to ask yourself in a couple of seasons is can we afford to pay this guy who’s in a time share situation with Moy at the five nearly 25 to30 million a season potentially because that with this new cbaa and everything going up every year I don’t think that’s unrealistic to think that he’s pushing that figure barring some you know terrible injury yeah I think the archetype is very valuable I think we kind of the pendulum swung really far when the warriors were doing their thing and you made it think that all right like everyone’s just going to try to get Draymond Green types and really like Draymond Green’s just a oneof one you can’t really replicate what the Warriors or what Draymond Green provided even though he wasn’t even a starter but that’s you know that’s a separate conversation um but what I think this shift how it’s kind of shifted back in a way where traditional centers are really valuable but you can’t be a traditional Center like a Robin Lopez traditional Center that who can’t guard in space who can’t do anything more than kind of protect the basket area you need to have a multifaceted game and be really good at the things that you are good at and I think that’s where Jared Allen fits in really nicely he’s not somebody who you necessarily want switching onto the perimeter at all times but we’ve seen many times that he can stay with guys out there especially when they games on the line remember that right yeah I was thinking who was it that he stayed with with like Trailblazers that was like two years ago that might have been three years ago that was a while ago it was either Dame or mcll but yeah it was it was a while ago but like we’ve seen him do that multiple times we we are like comfortable with him in those situations and I think that’s kind of what you want from your traditional big so there is a market out there for him he’s still really valuable the problem that the Cavs run into is that what they need they may not be able to get with Jared Allen and Jared Allen’s still more valuable on this team than what they could get so that’s where it’s just kind of like a really weird situation and it’s sort of unfair to Mo and I think Bob brought this up a little earlier we were talking about Allan does a lot of things that you’d like Moy to do he does them just better and I think that’s very accurate because like Allen is a better Center he’s a better screen center he’s a better rebounder he’s I think he’s probably even a better interior Defender than Moy at this point um but one of the problems that you’ve had is when you’re trying to split those things with Moy it seems like he’s trying to be a power forward and a center and he’s ending up kind of just not really growing in either area so it’s just like the Cs are just in a really tough position and I don’t think they when they went out and got Allen they weren’t envisioning pairing him with Evan Mobley and I think when they dropped Deon Moy they weren’t thinking okay this is the pairing we’re going to have for the next 10 years it just kind of sort of worked out that way and that’s that’s what makes this whole conversation tough because it’s like you can see it multiple ways but the Cavs do have a problem because you it’s really tough to play with just three Shooters on the court and JB Baker staff wasn’t able to to figure it out you hope that the next coach would be able to figure it out or could provide better Solutions at least so this is where it’s just it’s just a tricky situation that the Cavs are currently in yeah and well originally they were going to pair Allen with Andre Drummond so Moy ended up being an upgrade in the department but I get what you’re saying the issue is and like it’s kind of try to blend the two things that you guys are saying here because they weren’t trying I don’t think they were trying to do that with Andre drum they end doing they offered drum in the contract and he said no and then they traded for Allan so yeah they they you can’t can’t erase the history trying to give the cat some credit for not thinking that I see the issue that you’re bringing up though because and and really it’s it’s such an interesting thing with Allen because he doesn’t get enough credit for his versatility there aren’t as many there’s not many centers who can do the things that he does on offense and defense uh who are that agile and Swift and then you look at his contract 20 million a year for how good he is that’s honestly a steal the role that he has accepted without any complaints uh not many guys that good would accept that contract and play this role where ideally the way the Cavs are structured this isn’t how it’s played out but ideally you would want Allen to be your fourth best player behind Mitchell Garland and Moy now I think he’s arguably been the second or third depending on how you value Garland uh like it depends on what season you’re looking at like 2022 is probably Garland number two most recently it was Allen number two and so when you combine those two things it’s just it’s a really interesting issue the Cavs have because and you hit on this earlier too it’s like the Mitchell Allen pairing has been one of their best Duos and so what do you do with that guy uh but again to to kind of focus on this uh topic right here before we move on to the pros and cons and and kind of the reality of what it might look like if we moved on from Allen I do just want to say again agreeing with a lot of what has already been said he has the coordination to handle the ball and I think do even more than what we’ve seen from him uh even if he doesn’t necessarily improve even if this is the best Allen ever gets I think just about every NBA team could use a guy like Allen someone who can anchor their defense he’s still switchable uh he’s not someone who can only play in drop coverage he can do just about anything defensively uh and the limitations they primarily come on offense but even then I think you can build a high-powered offense that includes Allen as an interior scoring threat who can be used in creative ways even if that doesn’t include a three-point shooting option so I just think Allen truly is I of course I’m biased but I think he’s one of the most underrated players in the NBA I think there’s a lot of teams out there if they can get Allen they’re gonna jump on that opportunity Tony I will say that we you need to have a conversation about what underrated means because you think that everybody’s underrated so we need to we need that later I have a theory that that I I believe applies almost universally which is um like in the situation with Mand Allen I think I often wonder I’m like how would our own fan base look at these two guys if Moy was the one we traded for and Allen was the one we drafted because so much of what I see is guys get a lot longer leash in ter terms of loyalty from their most DieHard fans when they’ve been there from day one when they were there on the hype train when after you know watching the draft profiles when they got behind them when they were drafted but we never even seen them play from the summer league and all that to the point where I feel like sometimes guys are at a disadvantage when they come in after already having been Associated uh with other team when it comes to our own fan bases loyalty to some extent um because I don’t know if it’s like whether it’s underrated or just underappreciated or somewhat taken for granted maybe those are the same thing maybe there’s some sort of distinction between the two but I definitely think there’s an element of that um that this is what I the you know the the normal way of things happening would be eventually Allen gets moved and then Moy struggles and everybody turns on Moy you know in the absence that would how it would go way that things go uh but my hope would just be that even if you don’t appreciate Allan even if people think that what he does is fairly replicable that they’re not in a rush to get rid of him until the Cavs have a better man to fill his minutes in place than an ancient Tristan Thompson or you know buyou Marcus Morris so regardless of how anyone feels about Mitchell I think another interesting conversation to have is how to address it because while trade machine stuff is fun uh I think an argument could be made that the Cavaliers they have a twoyear Runway here to figure out what they’re going to do if they do plan to Pivot where when you hit that one year mark I mean you saw it in Toronto a guy can have a ton of value um but his value will diminish the closer he comes to being able to walk away an unrestricted free agency so there’s this like balance that has to be struck between moving on a pivot too soon if that’s the way that things are headed uh you want a chance to try to get some sort of fallback plan in place or some cheaper option that could fill a lot of the void that moving and Allen would create but you don’t want to move him too late to the point that he would walk away in an unrestricted free agency without a chance to use his money to bring back something of value to the thing yeah and it’s I say it’s one of the problems that the Cavs have because they have like essentially three positions on the roster you have like two high two really good centers you have point guards and shooting guards but mostly shooting guards and it’s like if you don’t have like really any or really like no depths at three or the four position or you’re trying to put guys like stru as the starting three and then kind of push him sometimes to play some minutes as your power forward it just makes everything so much more difficult so where the Cav’s currently stand if you were just to you know trade Jared Allen for a Brandon Ingram let’s just say and I don’t think that’s something that would happen anyways but even if that did happen right now you’re still in a really awkward spot where you don’t have a easy answer at power forward and then you don’t have an easy answer at backup power forward depending on how you feel about Nang and that’s just a really difficult position to be in if you’re going to make a move that is you know that changes the trajectory of your team this much see that’s the way I should frame it when people attack Jared Allen I should just say do you want more Yang uh is that yeah I can win them my side it’s all you got to say uh but that Del that balance that delicate balance that you guys are mentioning that’s why we haven’t gotten the report that the Cavs are trading Jared Allen as soon as possible because it’s not that straightforward the Cavs have a lot of things they have to evaluate this summer and so it could take time I mean I I tweeted this but like Dan and Donovan they got traded in September of their respective deal so this could take some time even if the Cavs like they very well might just stick with Allen but if they do decide to move him even if Kobe right now is thinking we are 100% trading one of these members of the core which he hasn’t signaled that’s what he wants to do but even if he was thinking that it’s probably not gonna happen at midnight as soon as it’s available it it’s gonna take them some time and so to officially transition to this topic because look there’s been noise about the Cavs potentially trading Allen fre a long time and it’s that noise has reached a deafening volume where some people are going to be upset if the Cavs run it back next season with the core 4 now I I find myself being more hesitant in that department I understand the urgency to see some changes but uh for me and you guys have already mentioned this but if you trade Allan you are now officially betting on Moy being his best when he’s playing the five uh and I think it’s vital that you would get another big who could back him up and eat some of those minut but if you trade Allen you’re betting that Mo ceiling comes with him playing at Center so that’s the primary thing you’re hoping to accomplish if trading Allen is your prerogative the other thing of course is just opening the floor in general uh it’s an oversimplification but it is true having two non-shooting bigs uh it makes for spacing a little more difficult uh an easy solution would be trading Allen and bringing in another shooter uh and finally you would hope that that shooter is a small forward who can play a little defense uh so the ultimate objective there is you want to open the floor get a wing and open space for Moy and look I agree that under the right circumstances that could be a home run move uh but my concern centers around what you lose when you trade Allen and that’s one of the best defensive bigs in the NBA a true defensive anchor someone who is one of the most efficient dominant interior finishes you can find he’s an elite lab threat he can set screens he can roll to the rim with authority and to tie all this together something that has been said many times about Allen throughout the years you might not always notice him on the court but you sure do miss him when he isn’t available and that’s a sentiment that could come back to haunt the Cavs if they move him this Summer and it doesn’t pan out the way you would hope I think you’re just describing a center that would fit perfectly with Trey young here we go waited till the 37 minute Mark to get us into that one you that’s all that’s all to say I waited pretty long yeah sure sure ridicul I don’t I don’t want to tie fro to Trey young that would be very disappointing outcome it’s like what’s next add Draymond Green to the team and just have fro prop all of them up well I mean I don’t want to speak about Draymond Green because that’s that’s not what I’m here for but you know but Trey young and Jared Allen that’s a pretty good pairing but you know we’ll talk about that some other time I’m not a dere I don’t like dere white anyways anyway anyway about that I kind of think already answered this for the most part but does anyone have any final comments about the pros and cons of what would happen if you traded Allen I mean I I again it’s like it’s hard to evaluate it without knowing what’s coming back because you know there’s not ever going to be a trade in the NBA that improves one area but doesn’t open up some questions in others not with a player not with any of these players at the magnitude of our core for um but that being said it would just really kind of depend what what I don’t we in this period now where you see a lot of talk about stuff for just unproven guys and that’s the most risky form of a Jared Island trade for me uh so many times opposing fan base suggestions or reporter suggestions or just Bleacher Report mock trade articles will they’ll ignore whatever the Cavaliers would be trying to accomplish in a trade of a of a Darius Garland or a Jared Allen and I think we can all agree nobody’s looking to a massive bunch of picks when you’re trying to convince Donovan Mitchell why he should want to stay here they would need to be bringing Talent back in an area that they feel like improving that area would more than make up for what we’re going to lose in trading whether it be Allen or whether it be Garland or whether it be whoever um and that’s that’s the thing that I would say is that I know we haven’t talked about specific players but even when you allude to things like Brandon Ingram and some of those other situations is regardless of how you feel about Ingram as a player uh he’s still a very productive player on an NBA level who does a lot of things very well even if he has holes in his game so those are the types of constructions that I’m I’d be way more willing to assess than talking about things like oh we want to get into the late lottery so let’s send Jered Allen to Memphis for the number nine pick and then you know maybe one of these rookies will be as good as like that’s the type of gamble that I have no interest in making that’s a huge gamble that they they they’re just not in a position to where they need to make that at all in my opinion well it’ll be interesting to see how the Cavs handle free agency because I don’t think we’re going to get a you know a Draft Day Jared Allen trade or anything like that so if you were planning on trading Jared Allen you would want to use your midlevel on presumably a four or a five uh you may want to use it at on a four anyways but Shing up the front court is definitely something that you would really need to do if you’re planning on trading Jared Allen so kind of how they handle free agency and how they handled the draft too although you’re not you’re not going to get an NBA minutes from 20 at least unless you know you hit a home run never the rare anomaly but yeah I I don’t think anyone’s banking on that we talk we talked a little bit about this before the cameras are on though about like expectations of what you get out of that pick um and and quite frankly I would just be happy with somebody who in their first year doesn’t look overwhelmed when they play backup minutes you know ultimately down the line like yeah I would I’m hoping for a best case scenario of a top eight rotation player maybe even a starter in the future but for the time being uh I think if you can even get playable minutes during the course of the regular season where they’re consistently finding their way in the games that’s about as much as you could hope for and if we get more than that then fantastic because I hear you know when people talk about the draft there’s so much conversation about well there’s not Elite topend Talent but there’s a lot of guys in that you know whatever you want to call it tier of players where it’s like if everybody’s roughly kind of viewed with the same potential then you you never know certain guys in certain situations just kind of opportunity is a huge part of that and I certainly think that there’s areas due to injuries or otherwise where the Cavaliers consistently have opportunities there for the taking if a buyout guy can walk in and give us a season high in the playoffs that like I will never bet on this team not to have situations arise that don’t give guys a chance to shine so in that regard I don’t have these high expectations um but I do think one thing that this draft offers is a very good chance that some of those positions that were some of those archetypes were looking to fill uh there will be options available at 20 how they pan out is you know anybody’s guess um yeah I could talk myself into tons of different prospects just knowing that the alternative is bringing back a Tristan Thompson or bringing back a Marcus I don’t think it’s a super high bar to clear like if if you’re holding guys to an Alan Mo standard prepare to be disappointed but if you’re holding guys to a just be better than Yang just be more available than Dean Wade when we need him if that’s the standard I think it’s very possible that we come away happy that’s exactly what I was gonna say is Hey listen it’s the 20th pick in a draft that is considered a weak draft and so you shouldn’t put too many expectations on it don’t get your hopes up too high but again when you’re looking at the Cav situation the bar is can you give us minutes that are more productive than Nang Morris uh even if it’s not next year a couple years from now what will Tristan Thompson look like next season two years from now if someone can come in and develop into something better than that the bar is pretty low and not to just completely trash Nang or Wade or anything like that if you even just look at them like they’ve had moments throughout their career where they’re productive and I believe Wade was undrafted dang was a late pick you look at Max stru Merill like it’s it’s not the 20th pick isn’t super enticing but it’s not something that you should just throw out the window and say hey it’s whatever it’s the 20th pick there could be potential there now of course it’s a gamble uh i’ I’m not a big draft guy I have found prospects who I enjoy but even then I’m like there’s no telling if they’re going to pan out uh best case scenario usually is even just being a rotational player but again it’s it’s important for any Cavs fans who are feeling pessimistic it’s important to keep that in mind that there are players in every draft who go undrafted or fall into the late first round and do end up being difference makers at some point in their career and if you move on from Jared Allen the need for that 20th pick to be a useful player just it increases you’re gonna have to really hope that that guy can come in and help you at some point uh in the next few years well here I would want to say one other thing too which I am probably irrationally too excited about but this idea that now teams can trade players into exceptions instead of just having to sign them you don’t have to balance trades in that regard where it’s like okay it’s always tough on the market to take these guys who are you know because we’re getting into this era where there’s just this kind of universal clump of okay they’re all about mid-level exception players and now it’s just going to be what Market or what opportunity they pick to you know best showcase their skills so there’s a lot of people with the same exceptions biding for the same talent I think it’s nice to have an alternative avenue where where you know one of the stories we saw in the last week was about V zenov asking out in Sacramento because there wasn’t a role for him there’s going to be situations where guys pop up who don’t have a role on a team who may be getting out of their salary you saw it with the Warriors talking about waving gavon Looney just to avoid the tax those are those are guys who could be productive in the right situations and to have a new Avenue of acquiring them despite your situation with cap space I think it’s going to make for some interesting offseason storylines and some possibly unheralded additions people who can find situations that better suit their skill set where both teams win because some people just will want out of contracts and to be able to do that by trading someone into exceptions where you don’t have to take back salary and return uh could be win-wins for for multiple trade Partners yeah and to that point that’s another reason why the Cavs will probably take their time figuring out these big decisions because they have to explore all their options there’s no I know everyone feels very doomsday but there’s no need to rush this especially if Donovan Mitchell signs that extension which is going to be top priority that’s gonna be the first thing they want to get out of the way Mitchell signs the extension you have some breathing room now you don’t need to rush and panic of course there’s the potential that he gives some conditions with that extension I don’t necessarily expect that I don’t want to dive into that speculation but the point that I’m making is that the Cavs they got some time to to evaluate this now again to round this out it’s unfortunate they didn’t get a true opportunity against Boston to really see what the core for looks like they’re gonna have to make some educated guesses on all of this but that’s what the NBA is at the end of the day you gotta you got to make some some risks you got to take a chance one way or the other whether it’s bringing the core forward back which is a risk in its own or making a trade and so I think we had a great discussion on Jared Allen his season his trade value all that stuff that’s going to do it for this episode of the junkyard pod want to give Bob another special thank you for joining us today it was an honor to finally have you on the show and I want to thank you the person listening or watching to the podcast on YouTube Spotify or apple if you enjoyed the episode again please hit subscribe and drop a like to help support the channel and with all that being said go Cavs I agree goats Brian what do you think about Trey Young

Bob Schmidt of Fear the Fro joins The Junkyard Pod to discuss what comes next for Jarrett Allen

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