Is Kyrie Irving still good enough to be a No. 2 on a championship team? | NBA | SPEAK

Is Kyrie Irving still good enough to be a No. 2 on a championship team? | NBA | SPEAK

I don’t think Kyrie’s still a good enough number two on a championship team I was thinking about it slick and and you challenge me more than anybody to do my basketball homework I love having played in the NFL because highkey then you got to study more as a pertains to basketball basketball was probably my second true love to track and field football being my third love but you got to go back and study when I prepared to do a basketball show to do a Daily Show I had to really study I had to go back and watch the docks I had to go back and watch the tapes somewhere in black and I really have to do my homework I didn’t just lean back on oh I know this cuz I played NBA Live and 03 with J kid on the cover no no no I really had to do my homework shady and doing my homework I realized over the last 10 years or so the number twos on championship teams they’re either really good two-way players or they can give you 40 on a moment’s notice and a dub I think about Andrew Wiggins really really really good two-way player I think about Pascal cakam good two-way player I think about Anthony Davis really good two-way player I think about a dude like Jamal Murray we’ll focus on him because he was the number two on last year’s championship team y’all do realize that Jamal Murray the second best player for the Denver Nuggets severely outplayed Jaylen Brown as it pertains to offensive output and you could argue in totality output and he was the second best player on that team 216 and 10 and I believe it was uh 50 40 and 90 shooting meanwhile Jaylen Brown had 25 and five on what I believe was 40 20 and 70 shooting so that was what a number two on a championship team currently looks like the man to your left he’s either the number two or the number one that’s what number twos on championship teams currently look like we have to update our modems update our mindsets update our mantras Kyrie Irving is an incredible player offensively at least he was obviously incredibly is what he can do with the ball in his hands but Shady when I think about it he’s not an elite two-way player not like Andrew Wiggins not like Anthony Davis obviously Pascal sakam just got a bag today shout out to him so he’s not an elite two-way player and he can no longer give you that walking 40-point game that we all think he can Chris Middleton game four dropped 40 Giannis only had 24 helped the Bucs even up the series two to two the Bucks would go on and win the series four to two that’s what number twos do these days family they put the team on their back when the number one ain’t there to do it and we haven’t seen Kyrie do it in seven years now so I no longer know that he’s still good enough he was good enough I don’t know if he’s still I disagree with that and even the guys that you just showed um on the diagram here like other than Anthony Davis and maybe Brown you tell me you would take them dudes over Kyrie Irving you think Chris over kby Irving are you saying Jaylen Brown Jaylen Brown did you just name Jaylen Brown as the number two I just want to make sure I got my my my scorecard correct I’m say what I’m saying AO show the the the the diagram of all the number two players and his his opinion so what I’m saying is brown who up was up there was up there was up there all these other guys though right my Warriors you telling me Andrew Wiggins you would take before you take Kyrie IR 2022 Wiggins yes sir you remember Jamal Jamal maray you tell me if you take if you take Jamal Murray off the off the Nuggets you put Kyrie Irving there you don’t think they have better team Jamal Murray beat the Dallas beat the Los Angeles ask I’m asking you a question I’m asking you a question I would take Andrew Wiggins I would take Anthony Davis and I would take Jamal Murray the last two years over Kyrie IR okay that’s your opinion I’ll just say this man I totally disagree with everything you’re saying um we gotta understand that yo Kyrie Irving and Luca we were just arguing where they one of the best back courts of history in basketball right that happened for a reason lot is Luca ladz Kyrie these guys just went to the finals that did just happen did I will say this I think as I watched more tape on the games from game one all the way down to the last one is that we got to give more credit to Boston for the defense right because they they they pushed Luca just as well as they push Kyrie Curry did not have a good series he did not but when you go against all defensive players like like Drew holiday that matters right Derek white that happens then JB the way he plays that happens so all these different matchups I gotta give them more credit for what they did I think we’re not giving boss enough credit for how the defense they played so that’s one part and the second part is if you take this series away the the other series that Kyrie Irving was was playing in I mean he almost averaged 50% from the field is that good or is that what is that so as much as you trying to tell me that Kyrie Irving is not good enough as a number two to win a championship is crazy he took the the freaking dallis Mavericks to the finals like that did happen it did it did if we’re gonna give the Celtics credit for defense which I think we should got to we have to then we got to start giving more credit to defense because Kyrie Irving is not an elite defensive player he borderlines being a good defensive player this year for the first time in his career and he said he was watching the playoffs last year when he got sent home and he realized he had to play better defense so if we got to give credit to defense then let’s not just do it on a macro level let’s do it on a micro level too but this is crazy to me because you letting one series change the whole view of Kyrie Irving in your eyes that’s what you’re doing no no it’s yes sir because you took Kyrie Irving and Luca in the best duo matchup I did and you took that for a reason because you have watched with your eyes of what Kyrie Irving has been doing in the playoffs seven 30-point games had a 40-point game him and Luca this season the second highest in the history of the game averaging 60 points together a backcourt Duo that’s why we took them so we can’t sit here and let one series and yes Kyrie Irving and Luca both did not shoot the ball well and yes they had some wide opens yes it was some good defense on both but we cannot let one series change the way we view Kyrie Irving after all the special stuff that he has done this season especially in the postseason Luca and Kyrie Irving were the best duo scoring wise in the postseason including JB including Tatum including M including all these dudes they was the best can I ask my question see James the reason I get in so much trouble along with other reasons in society the reason I get so much trouble in society with everybody I’m sure y’all hate me at times honestly I don’t like me all the time is because I’m fair I’m honest we can’t let one series change our opinion of Kyrie we did in 2016 the shot the shot that one series family it’s changed our opinion of Kyrie forever 2015 he was hurt 2017 they got beat down 4 to1 I went to the game in Cleveland 2018 he left he went to Boston he went to Boston Boston the year before had gone to the Conference Finals he goes up to Boston and he gets hurt Boston goes to the Conference Finals he plays they lose in the semis he leaves they go back to the Conference Finals he goes to Brooklyn he gets swept by Boston one Series has already changed our opinion of Kai so James Jones if you’re going to tell me I can’t let one series change my opinion of Kai all say fair but then you can’t either you can’t let that 2016 series change your opinion so let’s take out this finals appearance let’s take out that finals appearance and then who’s Kyrie see for me I’m not worried about one series whether he won whether he bowled whether he didn’t ball whether he lost I’m looking at Kyrie Irving since Kyrie Irving has walked into the NBA he’s been one of the baddest men on the planet he was one of the baddest man on the Cleveland Cavaliers when they won it and when they went back to it and lost and he was one of the baddest man in the world this year on the Dallas Mavericks so we can’t let the way he played in this finals cuz you was just on his team too with me a week ago you know what I’m saying so all I’m saying is is Kyrie had a heck of a postseason did he he had two good series two Bad series don’t forget the Thunder series fam James stop being biased sir he had eight games under 30 point under in the teens he had seven games in the 30s Kyrie iring was more likely to score in the teens in the postseason then he want to score 30 or more you can’t be biased B do irvan had seven 30 plus point games and he had eight in the teams there was more likely to score in the teenss than he was to score 30 that’s just a fact I just feel like no I feel like we’re having a number one argument right now if you are looking at this man’s numbers with what he did and he’s the robin what we talking about a man had seven plus 30o games and a 40p pointer as the Rodman that’s what we say right we say Luca’s the best we saying a number two player I think you trying to view Kyrie as the number one option that’s fair a number two option with what Kyrie has shown this postseason and this season anybody will take that as a number two option on your basketball team I don’t think the Celtics would Rick buer I don’t think the Celtics would you make a very compelling point I triy shady and and James you do as well uh but let me ask you this if you if if Kyrie had been a better two do they win this championship no no no they push it no they push it to seven to six push to six at least that trying to six is a lot we know they put you to six that for me is the issue here is that it’s hard for me to look at num at at Kyrie as the number two and say if only he were a legitimate number two then everything would be different because the number one wasn’t good enough as number one thank you and and the number three I don’t even know who you have as a candidate for that when it was coming up it was PJ Washington looking like that against Minnesota right y he got exposed in the finals so as I look at it and it’s the same with when I look at the Milwaukee Bucks like Chris Middleton as good as he might have been he wasn’t good enough as a two to win a championship until you added Drew holiday cor Y and when I look at how they won that Championship there are instances where I’d say drew holiday if not the true number two was the second best player on that team in winning the championship which allowed Chris Middleton to be up and down to give you like a great performance and then be off in another performance because you had that steadying influence I’d even say that with the Boston Celtics like do you have a true number two we’re still debating who the number one is right so I believe that the the the template for winning a championship has changed and that it really doesn’t come down to having a certain number one and a certain number two if you look at the championship teams of the last few years like I go back to Jamal Murray yeah offensively can give you bigger performance and and has given you bigger performance in recent times than Kyrie has overall right but Jamal Murray they people are attacking him defensively all the time and Kyrie showed outside even in this series but particularly outside of this series he can be a very good Defender he’s a much better two he’s been the best two-way player that I’ve ever seen him be so you make a very compelling point I mean I I I I I actually love it because it does raise that question in terms of where we put Kyrie as a number two at this stage but I just I I my answer is yes you can win with him is the number two if the number one is better and you find a number three and let me say this real quick so you touched on a little bit FSE is that Luca was not that great this this finals he was not right on defense couldn’t stop any by no hustle no effort none of that so as much as you want to blame Kyrie for not delivering as the number two our number one didn’t show up either though and he was the weakest thing on the court the other team’s game plan yo wherever their best player is who was Luca we going at him like mentally that has to strike you a certain like yo and they didn’t go at Kyrie and they didn’t go at Kyrie and another thing is offensively you ever watch now this is the whole playoffs you ever watch the Mavericks right and Luca is dribbling the hell out that ball now to his right he can do that because he is that good right will you ever see times where Kyrie get a little spark going on right and you’re like dang I want to see more of that nope the go the ball goes back to LCA you ever see we like man maybe I should go to KY a little bit more maybe give him a couple more possessions I’ve been like that I’ve seen that I’ve been like yo why not give Kye maybe a couple more possessions to get the ball and get going let the offense run through him a little bit so when you talking about him not okay play as well I think something has to do with the Rhythm a lot of times I watch the Mavericks I’m like yo won’t Jason okay better yet Jason K said this he said you know typically in the second half Kyrie gets going right he lets Luca do his thing he said but I want Luka I want Kyrie to start getting going earlier so when he said that I’m like yo he’s right because I feel the same way there needs to be a time for these two ball dominant players right because Kyrie’s learning how to play um without the ball right he had to with Luka right there needs to be some times where Kyrie Irving needs to go three four five possessions of just letting him run get comfortable one-on ones pick and rolls the same way they do with luuka so when you ask him about these questions with Kyrie Irving some of that to me is I think the Rhythm and him not having a lot of offensive possessions because if you look at the way he shoots the ball he ain’t shooting the ball a lot either though that’s another thing we need to talk about you watch Luca he’s putting that ball up over and over again where Kyrie’s not shooting the ball as much and you know in any sport when you getting more comfortable more carries more catches more passes you’re a better player the the thing though for me is like Kyrie tried let’s not get it twisted like Kyrie’s not the scorer that Luca is he’s just not since Kyrie came into the league after his first year the lowest points per game he’s had is 27.7 that’s the lowest he had 33 this year you after his rookie year LCA doning ky ky exactly that’s the point I’m making Kyrie’s highest is Luca’s lowest Kyrie’s ceiling is Lucas floor as it pertains to scoring offensively shooting the ball of course I’m sure that of course Luka shooting more but if it’s you or me and we got hey we need to go get a bucket I want Luka to go get but but I’m saying say that again Kyrie’s highest points per game in the season Luca’s lowest so of course what are we saying Kyrie irban is right now a number two of course so why we even trying to compare him to a number one the number one days we can say for Kyrie is sure over a number two with what you’re saying right now who wouldn’t take that that’s all I’m saying and Lucas shoots that ball no no question man let let me we we had this question several shows ago and but I’m wondering what your answer is now because mine it Remains the Same in terms of the duo of Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum versus Kyrie Irving and Luca donin take everything else away right just those two versus those two I want the Ma I’m I’ve switched mine hasn’t changed I would still go with Luca and Kyrie because if you gave me imagine if you gave me Luca and Kyrie with Derek white Drew holiday Christ porzingis and Al Horford goodness gracious but here’s how things change though things change because what was beautiful about the Celtics is none of their players were getting beat off the dribble at often times if you put Luca back on the Celtics Luca is getting beat off the dribble so now D white has to come you got more Defenders you hide him a little bit more you do but still at the point in which the Celtics has facing so if you take the Celtics and you play the Celtics with Luca and Kyrie and Luka gets beat off the dribble everybody now is one person everybody’s now SC but that’s defensively but offensively if I got Luka and Kyrie with all those floor spaces and I get oper oh but the here here’s why I would switch my answer is because to Shady’s Point earlier on or 10 minutes ago is I’m now valuing defense more and shame on me for having not in the first place if you give me JB and you give me JT you give me two players who will always play with effort who do not complain to the refs who were always running who were athletic who can give you 20 to 30 any a game and who can also D up anybody from the one to the four so now I actually care about that whereas you give me Luca and Kyrie Luc is a liability defensively and though Kyrie has played better defensively Kyrie’s not an elite Defender he’s just Elite himself he’s solid so this my thing when I when I watch all the games especially the finals like Luca sticks out to me from his effort in defense yeah you get what I’m saying so Kyrie maybe he’s not the greatest Defender right he ain’t getting picked on but it’s like when I watch luuka like it’s times when like you you stick out okay you know what I I and I it’s difficult to make this case particularly because I know it’s one on3 here but we have made way way too much of Luca’s defense it has not been consistent no but if you but if you if we talk about what he’s capable of like there are times where Jaylen Brown Jason Tatum they tried they tried to go at him and they couldn’t get it done now it wasn’t consistent so to me luk has to get in better shape so he can be consistent but I don’t think he’s this Turn Style that we’ve made him out to be like it’s impossible to play good defense with LCA donic on the floor because the Dallas Mavericks have done it they did it getting to the finals and they did it at time I agree with theist what about off the ball like what about times when you the freaking rebounds you know no hustling I agree but that’s but that is effort energy bro bro that’s bull crap I don’t care Tire or not one thing about being an athlete when you have up and left you find a way to get it done I know we all been there like how the hell did I do that I know I was dead tired but that he out of all the superstars y telling me we watch from day in and day out you telling me when we watch all these dudes especially in the finals he sticks out more than anybody that’s a mindset no effort no attitude none of that you fall on the ground you stay on the ground they they coming they score they come back you just getting up but Shady don’t you think that’s fatigue big dog you’ve been there I’m saying I’ve been in a situation where you see your fumble on the ground and Coach is like hey a why didn’t you get to it I’m sitting here like coach it’s a 12pl drive G like I was going to get there but the other dude got there faster we in the you know what’s crazy you we talking like this and we in the finals y I agree with you but to me to me it’s all the mindset Luca has never been good at defense at times does he show you yes he can stay in front of nobody but consistently he has never been good at defense that is a mindset when he takes the basketball court his mindset is not I’m going to stop the best player like JB and boys his mindset ain’t I’m going to give the most effort on defense his mindset is I’m going to score the basketball so that’s why you get this this switch that he’s flipping on and off because he’s he’s not built like that mentally isep is Steph Curry a great defender is Steph Curry a great defender he’s gotten better he’s gotten better okay but they still go at him too right but what’s one thing he going to give you though effort he give you effort okay but but that wasn’t always the case and I’ll bring it up again when LeBron James went to the finals in 2007 he was not a good Defender LeBron James became a good Fender he began to care about playing good def here here’s the thing I don’t think talking about though my thought process is let’s be honest about Luca as great as he is offensively Luca is probably the least athletic guard superstar in the since the turn of the century but I’m not having him I don’t my problem 6 230 when you talk about LeBron when you talk about Braun slick when you talk about Jimmy Butler when you talk about uh give me any other guard you want to these are dudes that got 40in verts these are SE are dudes that are I don’t know basketball equivalents that would be 44 43 4 Five Guys Like These are elite elite windmill dunking kind of dude Luca’s not a freak so of course he gonna get beat off the dribble mindset or not subscribe here to get the latest from speak and go watch a few segments from our other shows on FS1

Emmanuel Acho, LeSean McCoy, Ric Bucher and James Jones debate whether Kyrie Irving is still good enough to be a No. 2 option on a championship team after the Dallas Mavericks lost the NBA Finals to the Boston Celtics in a gentleman’s sweep.

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