Grading the Alex Caruso for Josh Giddey trade…did the Bulls get fleeced? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

Grading the Alex Caruso for Josh Giddey trade…did the Bulls get fleeced? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

[Music] wo what’s going on bulls Nation welcome into the Cho Bulls podcast coming to you live on Friday afternoon June 21st summer is here and maybe so is a bulls rebuild I am peek Bulls Peg joined by my guys big Day Pow bwl Sports will the goat goly willor goly we got our producers Joey and Stephen hanging out with us in the background well we have all had about 24 hours now to process the uh jarring trade the Bulls sending Alex Caruso their defensive ace to the Oklahoma City Thunder getting Josh giddy in return the young Prospect who has flashed some potential but seemed to have lost a sizable portion of his role on a rapidly growing and and changing Thunder team that uh is at the top of the West uh and looking pretty darn good right now lots of reactions from all over the NBA world when this tree went down yesterday afternoon we were lucky enough to be joined by our guy Kendall Gill who was in studio with us yesterday right as the news broke uh go check out yesterday’s episode for our immediate reaction after Today’s show if you didn’t get to that one yet gentlemen let me just check in with you guys first like how’s everybody doing uh I my brain is still kind of fried and and scrambled right now goat how you doing I’m doing all right I think like look I don’t love this trade I think I like it a little bit more than some of what the reaction I’ve seen on Twitter um and I can like kind of lay out all the reasons if you want to like really get into it but look I think at the end of the day the Bulls really need to start making changes in getting themselves more towards like a younger core of players with upside and I think it’s possible that they could have done better on the trade market had they made a trade you know prior to the deadline when they had better offers I also think it’s possible that those same kind of offers weren’t as available for the Bulls now that cuso has only one playoff run on his contract as compared to two so it’s reasonable to assume that maybe the same kind of offers weren’t out there um and also I think like AK clearly targeted giddy specifically like you know for you can say what you want about him as a player we can agree or disagree on how good he is where his potential is but I think AK clearly was after that kind of a skill set that kind of player and he went after his guy now again we can agree just disagree about him as a player whether that was the smart move uh the business behind it the process behind it I don’t necessarily agree with all that but um he clearly was going after a certain guy that he valued more than picks and so I think that helps just kind of frame the grade more so than like you know make excuses for it or try to justify it in a certain way um because at the end of the day I don’t love the trade but I do think it was a good move to get themselves you know to open up some other moves for themselves to do and we’ll see what those look like as the uh next few weeks unfold here but are you doing all right will yeah I’m doing good I’m just I’m I’m just thinking through it thinking my way through it I know this is your process I understand it I just checking in on you man because I saw you and Matt when I walked in here it was like y’all in a rager the night before do I’m just checking y’all out making sure y’all okay I see Matt talking about making a double already like just want y’all know the Sun is out the weekend is coming everything’s cool and all right I’m doing great like I’m I’m much better than I was yesterday because I went to sleep on it and laughed with some family and friends yesterday so you know I’m completely fine with it but I I’ll get into the details of all this uh on the show for sure uh I saw Jamie in the comment saying I saw a lot of C minus D and F trade grades for the Bulls A+ for OKC um so like I we’ll get to our gr grades uh in a little bit but I I am curious the fact that it seemed most everybody who was talking yesterday NBA media uh from all over had similar opinions on like wow did Sam presy really just get Alex cruso for Josh Giddy and no picks like how is that possible and there’s been some discourse yesterday and into today uh some of which I’ve been engaging with uh my fellow Bulls fans on Twitter about which is like who had the leverage or who had more leverage when these two teams and these two Executives came to the negotiating table because from my vantage point I can see some leverage from the Thunder which is hey we know that the Bulls need to get something for Alex kuso before they lose him for nothing and we probably have leverage in that I am more confident in my negotiating skills than the man sitting across the table from me I thought that the Bulls had more leverage in this situation the Thunder don’t need Josh giddy they don’t want Josh Giddy and according to Sam prey’s comments in his press release Josh giddy essentially requested a trade so how is it then that the Bulls have the player that Sam presty has been pining after for years and you still come out draw at best when it seemed to me like the Bulls had more leverage than the Thunder did in the situation I mean I think it’s because the Bulls really coveted Josh giddy I mean when you read Jake Fischer’s report this morning there were kind of Rumblings around the league that the Bulls were focused on giddy that you know rival Executives thought that there might be a sign and trade for Patrick Williams in the works and not you know an Alex cuso deal um but I think when the Bulls kind of locked in on giddy it took away a lot of the leverage that they had to get as much value as they could for Caruso and I think that is a problem with the way that card chovis has operated so far it seems that he is hyperfocused on replicating the style of basketball this blueprint that he put together that worked for the first 60 games of the 2021 season and he’s trying to like figure out a way to replicate that in lie of actually maximizing his value um for his assets and so um when you say this is the guy I want not let’s take the best offer I can get you know the price goes down a little bit and I think that’s kind of what happened there so um I think again you can talk about the way that the approach you know the way that kov has approached it you can talk about how good giddy is as a player you can talk about the cap flexibility and you know basically running out the clock on a rookie scale contract and having to pay gidy next year there’s so many layers to this but I think at the end of the day the reason why this deal happened is because AK wanted Giddy and if he was just in the market for as many assets as possible I don’t think this is the deal that they would have taken I think he really valued giddy above some first round picks this year above you know some Lottery you know mid to late Lottery uh multiple first round picks like down the road that were protected kind of stuff that he was able to get before like he preferred to get the talent the specific talent that he wanted and again we can disagree with how good we think giddy is or you know how much potential he has to get better but at the end of the day like that’s the reason I think why this trade happened and it’s why the Bulls couldn’t get more because as soon as you say this is the guy I want and I’m not budging off that now your ability to ask for more is gone because you know as much as I’m sure OKC wanted cruso and coveted him if AK is locked in on Giddy and like that’s the prize for him then of course you don’t have to add more picks to get a deal done because he’s already getting what he wants yeah well that’s the part and that those are the arguments well I shouldn’t say arguments but the debates and disagreements I was on with uh everybody who who was on social media with Twitter shout out to y’all um it they kept coming to me saying but giddy is a good player but I like giddy but I I like his upside I like his Youth and I continued to say listen it has nothing to do with giddy me there has nothing to do with him like I I want yes I want giddy to be a good player like they went and got somebody that they wanted they saw him they coveted him they like okay we think he can help our team fine I have no problem with that you got the player that you wanted I’m talking about uh about selling basically selling high on somebody that was you know selling low buying high on somebody that was selling low pretty much so giddy like you just mentioned was already out of there like they know they didn’t want giddy they showed you they didn’t want giddy he went to him they were looking for trades to get rid of him we all understood that so when you come to the Bulls and you know and I don’t know how they didn’t know this but if you know that they are trying to get rid of an asset well you want to maximize that’s exactly what you do you say okay fine give me this and then give me this with it that’s how it’s supposed to work a player for player swap is the only issue I had if you’re going to give me a pick with this yes okay fine now now I’m like we can move forward bet I got some assets if you want to give me cash with that fine great I can move forward I got something extra this is not something I would do player for player because the highest value person was on my team that’s who you guys wanted so if that’s what you want then you going to have to give me a little bit extra on that like you didn’t have an asset that was more valuable on the Bulls than Alex kuso so like if that’s the case you want to like maximize and capitalize on what you can get for your highest value player and how the pick wasn’t attached with that from a team that is drowning in picks it was just I just can’t wrap my head around I still haven’t been able to even after I sat and thought about it and it took my time with it all that that’s my only main issue with that it’s not so much Josh giddy because of course I’m he’s on my team now I want him to be better I want him to be good whoever they traded for kuso you know I don’t know what kind of player they were gonna get so you might as well get the one that you really want fine but the fact that that was it and you attach nothing else to that that’s what I can’t get with and that’s where I was like what the hell are y’all doing so a couple more things on that because I think you brought up some really good points Dave um number one is like again Caruso’s value was not as high as it was at the trade deadline I think they could have gotten more for him then so you know like I said one playoff run on his contract before you have to extend him one more year you know he’s one year older like those things go against you when you’re talking about how valuable is Caruso um so I think like based on my understanding and knowledge of what the pre- deadline trade offers were is this a little bit less than I think the Bulls would have gotten yes um but I don’t think it’s that far off from like the value that they were looking at when you factor that into consideration um I think you you bring up a really good point Dave that like they were trying to get rid of giddy too like he was a liability to them they knew they had to move him they didn’t want to be the team that extended him so I still think there’s leverage to be had there when you’re making those negotiations like yeah I value this guy but you don’t and you’re trying to get off of him like I need to capitalize on Caruso you know as much as I like giddy like I’m going to go elsewhere because a pick is valuable to me here too the problem is the pick wasn’t valuable to urist at least in this draft and so exactly um but I but I think that’s a problem and then you know the other thing is the other thing is like with with giddy again I I think the the real reason that this is a challenging situation now is because you are now on the clock where you have to extend him now before like while his value is still down um to try to get good deal on him and then hope that he exceeds that value as he becomes a bull and starts play or you let this season run out you let him put up a lot of big numbers and big box score stats on a team that I think is going to struggle a lot more than they did last year it’s GNA make him look good because he’s putting up big numbers and then you’re gonna have to overpay for a guy that’s kind of putting up inflated stats and so I do think that him G getting a deal done on him now is really important obviously some other dominoes need to fall in order to clear space to do that um but then the last thing is look if this does make you worse um and maybe that affects D rozen’s decision maybe he wants to leave or maybe not but at the end of the day like you are trading in your most valuable defensive player you are trading in a guy who stretches the floor shoots 40% on almost five threes a game who was your best plus minus guy for the last three years for a guy that’s been a negative plus minus guy who has been a shooting liability who doesn’t shoot it um and who you know just has a lot of flaws as a player you are going to be a worst team and so does that uh is the fact that you have this outgoing top 10 protected pick to the Spurs a part of that I think if the Bulls are able to keep their pick next year going to the Spurs as a result of this trade I think that’s a really good thing but at the same time if you know that you are going to be worse if you know you’re are going to be going towards the bottom to try to protect yourself against losing that pick that even more reason to get future draft Capital because you know they you’re going to need that when you enter rebuild you cannot go into a rebuild without any future picks like that is the problem with how the last rebuild worked out Caruso was your one chance to get future picks and you prioritized a player that you’re gonna have to pay instead so from the business perspective from the value perspective I don’t think this was a a good deal but at the same time like you know you do have a younger player with upside I understand why they wanted to go this direction as opposed to just getting pure draft capital and or protected draft Capital um but I think they left a lot on the table and I think that’s a real problem now because you’re looking at a team that has basically no Avenues to get future picks now we we got to take our first break uh but I do want to kind of continue uh that point you were making will about like if this signifies the Bulls are actually kind of secretly planning on being a worst team because of the net contributions you’ve gotten from Caruso versus what you might expect to get from giddy uh but uh before we break Daniel MDK in the comments saying draft piics are overrated I saw plenty of bulls fans trying to spin this or maybe not necessarily even trying to spin it but just putting you know uh looking at the positive side of things saying hey well what would you rather have an unknown from this draft class pick in the teens in the 20s or maybe even you get two picks in the 20s compared to the player that we know who Josh giddy is right now who is by the way still just a 21y old NBA player who has a few years of NBA experience under his belt already and I understand the logic of that point but two things well mentioned will you got to pay giddy before next season and you’re paying him more than you would pay a rookie scale contract if you were getting picks instead of that young player and it’s like it’s not just about well this is a weak draft class so I would rather have Josh GID than some pick in this year’s draft class no it’s I think you mentioned Dave the the volume of picks that OKC has they can’t use them all they have 27 picks over the next seven years coming their way either their own or picks owed to them from other teams from other trades like if you are in fact starting this rebuild you need picks to do that not just one player who needs a change of scenery you need picks to do that so maybe draft picks are overrated in certain ways but when you’re talking about the specifics of this trade and what the Bulls got and the road that they are staring down man it is crazy and I think bad that they got no draft Capital out of this trade um okay we have to take our first break there we will come back continue this conversation on the other side while we are doing that hit that Thumbs Up Button if you’re hanging out with us on YouTube we appreciate you spending your Friday afternoon with us make sure you also subscribe to chj sports YouTube channel Big Dave who’s first oh I’m G tell you what is very exciting and I know why will is here because he’s very excited to talk about this because ladies and gentlemen it’s my pleasure to announce it’s that trip s season that smooth sack summer is in full effect ladies and gents and as of course that’s our people at mans gate because when you’re playing in the 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promo code chdo Bulls to get 20% off your first order Lucy offers free shipping and has a 30-day refund policy if you change your mind that’s lucy. and use promo code chgo Bulls to get 20% off and always free shipping and here comes the fine print ladies and gentlemen Lucy products are only for adults of legal age every order is age verified warning this product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical losing nicotine check them out um all right so continuing that conversation uh so to to your point will about this move player for player and like what you’re getting on the court it certainly seems like this trade will make the Bulls worse if you if you change no other pieces around taking out Caruso and putting in Josh giddy the Bulls will be a worst team next season I agree with that it kind of makes you wonder if this is in fact the first of several moves that AK has up his sleeve because they are in a way gearing towards something different maybe he doesn’t feel like calling it a rebuild because that’s like a no no word that’s like taboo for AK I’m sure it’s probably also taboo for Bull’s ownership who wants to keep their Stadium full next season but to me that’s the only way this makes sense can you see Josh giddy Demar de rozan and Nicole a vuich sharing the floor together for large stretches games next season because that to me makes no freaking sense yeah and look I mean it doesn’t help either that they didn’t get off of any money in this trade so you know even just in order to continue to make these moves like the Zach situation Still Remains they have to get off of Zack in order to bring back dear do they even want to bring back dear any anymore uh we’ve heard a couple of teams now having interest in Patrick Williams so to me like if you weren’t going to get picks and I think you should have been if you weren’t going to get you know multiple young players and I think you probably could have at least then toss them another bad contract whether it’s Vu or Javon Carter um you know they probably weren’t gonna go for Zack LaVine but like you have such a bad financial cap crunch right now that you need to sort out and you didn’t help yourself at all with your best asset so I’m not saying the Bulls had to use cruso in order to clear up some space for them to be able to do other things but that was one way to clear up some space to be able to do other things now they don’t have that so does that mean you’re going to have to attach IO or a pick in order to move off of Zack LaVine in order to bring Demar back like and what what does that say about the direction you’re going I mean even if you bring back dear at this point if you remove IO and Zach from the rotation well you’re still G to be a much worse team because you’re losing now two of your best defensive players in IO and Caruso so um I think this was a opportunity to do a couple of different things to clear out cap space to make your you know cap future a little bit more clean and easy it was an opportunity to get multiple first round picks um or a young player and a first round pick in order to help Kickstart your rebuild but the fact that like d rozan could still be back in the fold the fact that they weren’t able to offload any other money the fact that they weren’t able to get any other picks um like I said maybe giddy ends up being a great player maybe he ends up being a better player in the next four years than Caruso I’m not like removing that from the the list of possible outcomes I don’t think it’s likely but let’s say that that is the case well you still lost the deal because you had an opportunity to get more or to offload more money and I think that’s like a AK the only deal you could like really point to and say AK won this deal was Caruso on the mid-level exception three years ago and now he’s turned that into a loss deal so if you are losing every deal by 15 20% like it’s not the end of the world because yeah maybe giddy outplays it and he ends up looking really good and you get him on a manageable extension and it looks great but at the end of the day you still lost that trade by 20% because you weren’t able to offload a bad contract or you weren’t able to acquire an additional pick or both and I think if they weren’t so fixated on giddy that may have been an option I’m not saying I know all the potential trade out there I did clarify this this morning on Twitter that like the trades that I had reported about those were trades that happened before the trade deadline I it’s very unlikely to me that Caruso would have had the same value today is he had pre-trade deadline just because the fact that he’s older and has one less year on his contract but again that just goes to show you that you have to maximize your potential to capitalize on guys when you have the chance you can’t wait until they’re at the ner of their value where they’re they’ve lost 50% of their value because now when you try to reset things well you you can’t get as much back and that hurts you going down the road so when we talk about like rebuilding or you know the team kicking the can down the road and and trying to kind of retool on the fly like all that stuff is a good idea in theory if you’re able to help yourself by getting more picks and the fact that they weren’t able to do that I think it makes this next rebuild this next retool whatever you want to call it that much harder because now they’re doing it with only their own picks and by the way they may not even have their own pick next year and so this just I think retaining that Spurs pick also becomes a huge part of this deal if they’re able to do that you good Matt yeah well I just wanted to like make that quick clarification of like that’s why I think there was so much outrage from fans yesterday is because you know most recently your reporting reminding Bulls fans of what some of those offers for Caruso in the recent past were meaning multiple picks and some of them even multiple first round picks and a young player attached to those picks that is why we were all sitting around like Mr Bean in that gif in a deserted you know tall grass field looking around like where are the picks where’s the follow-up tweet telling us about the picks and that’s why we were all so mad because we could have had so much more if you traded this guy when you should have yeah I mean exactly right and that’s exactly why I mean a year I’ve been you know this talking about trading Caruso but yeah I think uh reading those things especially uh that will Roose so that stays on your brain so you’re like okay well if you’re giving that up then obviously you know you’re going to get something attached to this and not just take a player no you’re not that’s crazy crazy even I’m reading and I was just reading something from Jake Fisher take it how you want it um but I was just reading something from Jake Fisher where he was saying the Bulls were during these processes the Bulls were seeking four unprotected first round picks which is a unserious thing that is completely unserious because we were like like two I don’t think any of us when we were talking about even mocks were like okay two of them would happen you know what I mean like but understood but four unprotected that is just not something I saw as feasable or making any sense I would have been happy with a second rounder in 2026 or 2027 whatever I would have been fine with that but thinking they’re going into this deal like oh you want us well then guess what four of them things that’s what you’re gonna have to give us for Alice Caruso no no team’s doing that that’s an unserious thing to come into the negotiations with and so when you’re asking for Giddy and again I’ll get into Giddy and and how I feel about Josh giddy a little later but when you go to that situation knowing and Matt thank you for putting up what you put up on Twitter uh the differences between the press release from OKC and the ones from uh the Bulls because the OKC press release detailed with actual affection and love for that player that was there and told you everything step by step in the process that happened to lead to this and with kuso it was just a blur at the bottom of the thing like yeah he played here was like yo what was that no man like it could have been worded and done so much better but that’s the only thing that continues to upset us and to get us mad I don’t want to speak for everybody but that’s the thing that is it’s walking away with just simply one player when you had the cards you know I mean it’s like folding with a full house and you know what I mean and they got like a pair that’s it and it’s like dude no man like you had the Full House in your hand you walk away with some with something extra on that and you just that it’s just a bad negotiation to go about something and you don’t have to Value the picks you know what I mean but that’s why I have other people in my staff in office who might see more value in having a pick or doing something like that but you can’t just walk away with nothing somebody was arguing with me on there about man trading even when Lakers traded Shaq you know what I mean look at the guys they got back I’m like yeah but even when they did that they got pick like you walk away with a pick still bro that is how it’s supposed to go in these situations when you have the upper hand when you have the player that has the higher value at that time not to say like like you said will not to say Josh giddy can’t reach that level Alice Caruso we don’t know yet but at this point in time now we know who the higher value player was so if you’re the higher value player guess what you’re gonna have to give up something AK knows this from nicoa vvis trade there was the higher value player to him he was like oh my God that’s the one I want well guess what and what did OK what did uh Orlando do well guess what you gonna have to attach a couple things to that to get him man because they understood the value of what he wanted you know what I mean like and so you have to go in with that kind of mindset and that kind of thing and they did not go in there with that it was overdone saying four unprotected piics and then there was no you know uh nothing to land on nothing sof kind of land on it was completely I’ll stay and that was crazy um uh here’s here’s some optimism from one of our fellow Bulls fans Antoine in the comments saying hopefully uh Josh gidy can become a good player we all at some point doubted Kobe white and look at him now even though he should have gotten some draft picks I believe AK is trying to learn from his mistakes there’s some rosecolor glasses and then the immediate next comment from chocolate salty Bulls is I wouldn’t AK with my dog and a jar of peanut butter so you know there’s the spectrum of bulls fans for you yo uh lovely I don’t know what you’re trying to say there Sal BS I think I might know what you’re trying to say but I I don’t care for it oh man that’s that’s hilarious all right uh also did you guys uh sport Chicago style in the comments just uh put up a Evan cidery tweet that is fairly new I think on the cnba reporter who’s starting to make some he’s the one who’s been tweeting about bulls Jazz a lot apparently he just had a tweet saying Tory Craig is gonna decline his player option uh with the bulls for 2.8 million hit free agency will uh Tory Craig will Garner a lot of interest from contending teams uh yeah in need in need of a Tory Craig um well there’s another interesting wrinkle do we have any people in the front Court left other than the V go ahead willo um yeah I think Casey Johnson alluded to this I don’t think it was like a hard report but I think he kind of assumed that Tori was gonna decline the player option and test for agency um but again like you’re kind of and I think like bringing in giddy now moves Kobe into a different role you remov Caruso from the mix who was obviously a huge piece of what the Bulls did last year and a guy that D rozan really uh appreciated and valued having in the locker room and on the court with him he’s now gone does that affect D rozen’s free agency um you know when when you’re in this kind of situation I do think that more moves are coming just one because they have to but two because I I just think the Dynamics of the team have now changed in a really big way and so I would not it would not surprise me if you know this kind of informed some of the rest of the free agent moves now right like okay you’ve got some younger guys in the mix like does that mean you want to place more of a priority on keeping Patrick does that mean that some of the older guys are going to potentially want to walk away or move to other teams in fre agency let’s knock out our second ad break right there we’ll come back this conversation we will give our official grades for this Caruso giddy trade take a look at some grades from some other NBA people and then talk about if this was the first Domino which ones could be the next to fall and what those might look like that’s all still ahead on chgo bulls on this Friday afternoon if you didn’t do it the first time around hit that like button now do it for our guys Joey and Steven working behind the controls do it for Alex Caruso as a thank you on his way out of town will tell him that you gave us the like that’s really for him uh Big Dave who’s next do it for our guy Ray at Ray Jr because when it comes to finding your next vehicle make Ray cdjr your number one draft pick because this June stop Chryslers Dodgers jeeps and of course Rams at Ray cdjr in Fox Lake and during the make this The Summer Event find the perfect vehicle and score some huge savs as well for a limited time lease the new 2024 Jeep Wrangler Willie 4 by E I like Willies in there will you sir getting cars named after you now for only 419 per month or shop over 125 Vehicles priced under $220,000 you heard me let the amazing 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to you by our friends at serga if you or someone you know may have a gambling problem just call 800 Gambler that’s 1800 426 2537 text GM to 83234 or visit are you really winning.com all right um so guys let’s talk grades um our guy fish said I give I give this trade a g minus wow that’s that’s not even in the normal number or sequence of letters that people can get grades of uh actually before we do grades uh answer this one question from G um because he he wants to ask like what we think of giddy basically he says Where do we think Josh giddy would go in this draft higher than pick six which he was drafted in 2021 I think we haven’t like really necessarily talked about giddy as a player and what they’re getting and why the Bulls want to take a bet on that I will say before we get into him specifically that like regardless of where he would go in this draft number one you already have three seasons of information about him what his strengths are what his flaws are how far you can kind of play with him being you know a significant part of a rotation um as we saw in this most recent playoff run for them where he was kind of played off the court uh against the Mavericks in the second round of the playoffs so um I don’t think it’s a one for one but I think the the real reason why you can’t do that is because of the contract situation getting in a guy who’s even on like the number one pick in this draft who’s gonna make more money next year than giddy will to have that guy on like 10 to 12 13 million for the next four years is much much more valuable than having giddy for eight and a half million this year and then having to pay him 1820 22 plus million for each of the next four years to keep them and so part of the leverage that the Bulls lost in this deal was the ability to get a player on a really cost controlled contract and I think that um that’s just a big piece of it when you factor in not only getting Financial flexibility for them to make moves this year but also how he may kind of be a fixture in the Bulls cap sheet for years to come now uh but let’s talk about giddy himself as a player I think you know people are really kind of trashing him because of the way that his season ended I think he’s a little bit better than that um you know 68 guard who is a really brilliant and gifted passer very good Vision very creative he’s a fun player to watch he gets out in transition really good rebounder grabbing go guy can get up the floor and just get his team into easy offense um improved as a shooter um and I know people are going to say like you know the Bulls have Peter pad maybe they can make him you know a three-point sniper well the Thunder have chip England who’s like one of the top five most notable shooting coaches of all time um and he has gidy has made strides but it’s not like he’s really become you know a high volume shooter I think like I was listening to some other podcast or saw somebody else talking about it like 80% of his threes were completely unguarded so yeah six feet or more away was the nearest defender on those ones that he was knocking down and the ones where he had a Defender within within six feet of him he shot like 19% on those three-point attempts yeah so so that I think that’s a big weakness like and it seems based on W’s tweets that like the Bulls want to put the ball in his hands to allow him to do some of the stuff that he has really good at right um you know he’s not a great driver I think he can get downhill but it’s more just like straight line drive stuff he’s not like really breaking guys down off the dribble he’s not he doesn’t have like a ton of Wiggle or Shake into in his game where he can like break guys down um I don’t think he necessarily is a very physical driver either he’s got a pretty low free throw attempt rate um so like I I’ve heard people compare the Ben Simmons thing a lot because he’s like a big guard who can’t shoot like Prime Ben Simmons could just like put you in the goal and G’s not really gonna do that so um I I do think giddy is a really creative offensive player and I think with the ball in his hands a little bit more he can be successful and I like I do want to be excited about the upside there again going from a 30-year-old who playing playing his absolute best basketball of his life as like you know a defensive anchor and offensive role player to a 21-year-old who was a former top six pick who has I think some some really gifted parts of his offensive game and just to try to develop that like I do think that’s the kind of move the Bulls should be making with this deal obviously we’ve talked about like you know it would have been great to get a pick it would have been great to get off some money but I like the the fact that they’re going younger here and and hopefully what that kind of indicates so um you know defensively he’s not great I think he’s just not like really athletic so he’s not and I think it works on both sides right like he’s he’s not really Shifty he’s not sliding his feet he’s not necessarily like getting over screens or protecting the rim so he’s a very limited player but I think if you do put the ball in his hands and you do let him create and do the things that he’s good at I I am curious at least about the upside there um so we’ll just kind of have to see how that evolves but again so much of that depends on well is dear still gonna be here and because he’s got the ball in his hands a lot you just made Kobe your you’re starting point guard are you now taking the ball out of his hands um and was that due to his like confidence or trust in the front office and coaching staff you know he’s he’s coming up for a contract in two years now so I think it just leads to a lot of questions but I know for a fact that like there there there are going to have to be more moves um so it’s hard to kind of like think about giddy in the context of the current team but I do think that he does a lot of stuff well there’s some intering parts of his game and I’m very curious and hopeful to see whether he can improve uh real quick Dave before you uh give us your thoughts on how giddy might fit with the bulls uh shout out to Matt with a super chat who said happy Friday guys I like gidy as a player not a fan of getting zero picks though yeah who is uh I’ll like this trade more if there are more moves to be made a ditto um yeah appreciate the super chat um I feel like that’s a that’s a like very down the middle but maybe with a just a tinge of posit positivity take from uh from Matt with the Super Chat I appreciate it uh all right Dave what what are you what are you thinking you see giddy fit yeah let me throw my 10 my positivity in here because this is actually when I can actually be um because one as will has said and to say the show I feel like this signals that change is coming like there’s no way you putting those guys together on the floor it’s not happening at all that change is coming this dude is 21 as well they just sign him for one year they’re gonna sign him they’re gonna pay this dude he’s gonna be here and it and however your point guard has it will be what the rest of your team is you know what I mean and that’s and we know who he can’t play with we can see already who it’s not going to work with on this team so I think those moves are coming honestly I think the signals change for the Chicago Bulls that they actually talked about we’ll see if they follow through on it but for me that’s where I get some some kind of Happiness about it like okay this is a real signal for me like we’re actually gonna do something more more so than anything I’ve seen them do more so than likeing coaches and stuff like that actually changing the product on the floor means something um but as far as Josh giddy I I mean I don’t hate Josh giddy like I don’t really he doesn’t bother me I I know I agree with everything will was saying I mean you got a guy who can’t score I like guys who can’t score and everybody tells me he can’t score and then I look in the B score and they’ll have 16 points and I’m like well how can you do that you can’t shoot like you you’re not strong enough to get in the drive that says something about your IQ and it says something about your crafty not getting to the free throw line either like he’s not doing it that way e so he’s scoring some kind of way the ball is going into the bucket so I got to give him respect for that that just shows me his craftiness and shows me he has some IQ uh we talk about the SE what he have in his best season was it like 16 seven and eight or or something like that in one of his best seasons um there’s been Improvement and you’re right he is not a high volume three-point shooter but his three-point percentage has gone up every single year um his his efficien his efficient field goal percentage uh went up uh and his turnovers went down uh as well so I I’d like Josh giddy of the flaws are we all know the flaws and that’s why I don’t when people were trying to throw the Lonzo um Rondo or Ben Simmons comparisons okay you’re mentioning three dudes who can actually control both sides of the floor you know what I mean control it on defense as well like that is the big part of this and that is a flaw for uh young Mr giddy right here we’ll see if it can improve but maybe he does need to change of scenery U maybe you know he just needs to hear a different voice we’ve seen that happen a million times to different players hell we saw it happen with Lowry know I mean just getting a different voicing a whole different thing can bring out a different kind of side of you and the fact that he will pretty much have a green light uh here in Chicago because like I said I feel like this would be uh something that is torn down and changed and I feel like they’re going young for sure on this squad so as a player I like him like will said he’s a great passer if you want to go watch those highlights please like he is a really great passer so if we got somebody on the team who wants to cut like he will find you like he’s really good at that he’s really good as will say getting the ball and getting up the floor and starting the transition but I like him in the half court I like his passing in the half court as well uh he’ll give you some o i moments for sure when it comes to his passing so yeah like I I don’t mind and he’s 21 years old like he’ll have more time to grow a little bit and you know see what’s out there form him so no I don’t I don’t dislike Josh gide do I I don’t like well no that’s just because of what I’ve been reading in the chat while you were finishing that thought Rob said the Aussie buying giddy jerseys is going to help the rhin stor Pockets hate that uh Samuel asking Rob did Mar K order his ginea jersey yet the new Bulls Channel yeah no I I’ve I’ve seen some marquet tweets over the last 24 hours he is not a big fan of this not please okay all right but the first thing he dm’ me was do you hate this as much as I do so that tells you what you need to know you should have said you got to be specific just like like real quick as far as as far as the fit like you’re think about you know the Simmons comp will I was also listening to Zack low and Bobby Mark’s talk about this on today’s low post uh that dropped and like Zack low put it in a way that I thought was about as perfect as you could put it when you’re evaluating who Josh giddy is as a player and what he can provide the Bulls and what he can’t uh because of the whole woe tweet about like hey this is a potential future Allstar the Bulls just got here and everybody went really um if you are a guy who is going to be the engine for an NBA offense as that W tweet made it seem like that’s what AK wants with Josh Giddy and you can’t shoot spacing the floor shoot you have to be either really good or ideally great at every other facet of your game if you are going to have the ball in your hands that much and you can’t shoot you have to be like you were saying will you got to be a strong finisher at The Rim you you need a strong mid-range game you need to be able to get to the free throw line and ideally on top of that hold your own and maybe even be above average on the defensive end of the ball if you’re a primary ball handler offensive Creator and initiator who can’t shoot and giddy seems to be a guy who wants to have that role of someone who can be a lead initiator lead Creator on offense who hasn’t found his you know his floor spacing uh you know shooting touch yet at the NBA level and is not good to great in all of those other categories and far from it and that’s what leaves me a little underwhelmed and worried right now I’m not saying that Josh giddy at 21 years of age can’t improve those other elements of his game that are a little bit weaker in the same ways that Ben Simmons is an incomplete player I’m just saying you know there’s there’s one really strongly checked box on what giddy can bring you and all of the other boxes are empty right now and Bulls fans have to hope that this change of scenery is what he needs to maybe grow his game in some of those other areas and and I did uh shout out to our buddy Eli Schuster of Bleacher Nation Bulls I saw a tweet of his either last night or this morning that that was a thought that hadn’t yet occurred to me which was Bulls fans always complain about losing those young players who we draft and failed to develop and then they need to change of scenery and then they go and flourish and Blossom somewhere else giddy could be an opportunity for the Bulls to as Eli said it in his TW flip that script and be the beneficiaries the benefactors of like hey giddy needed to change a scenery he was lost in OKC with all those other pieces maybe there’s an untapped version of Josh giddy that we’re GNA see now in a Bulls jersey instead of a thunder Jersey I’m I’m not saying I think that that’s the most likely thing to happen I’m saying that’s a thought that hadn’t yet occurred to me and it did make me feel a little bit better for about 12 minutes well I think the other thing is like we’re talking about giddy’s flaws at the highest level of the NBA game right we’re talking about is he going to get played off the court in the fourth quarter and clutch minutes of the second round of the playoffs like the Bulls are nowhere close to playing at that level and I do think when you reduce the standards a little bit and you just kind of let him run free especially if dear moves on um he’s gonna have the ball in his hands a lot I think he’s gonna be able to do some creative stuff and I think he’s gonna be able to put up some big numbers the way that he did in OKC his first two seasons um and and look when you make a trade for your best ass set you want to be able to get a guy who’s going to be able to like play at the highest level right like that’s kind of the the tradeoff that you’re taking you’re trading when now production for potential to be able to do that and I think the Bulls are obviously hoping and betting that giddy can do that um he has not been able to do it so far but I agree that like that doesn’t necessarily mean that he can’t continue to improve with the change of scenery so again I’m I’m optimistic for giddy I don’t think he’s gonna be like the best player in a championship team I don’t necessarily think he’s gonna be like a multi-time Allstar but I think he’s going to put up some big numbers I think he’s going to play a creative brand of basketball I think he’s going to be exciting to watch it’s going to be nice to just have young players that can get better that aren’t like at or past their Prime um so I think from that perspective like and again just making a move towards like a long-term thought about where this team can go I think is really important and um you know again I’m not saying he’s going to be a superstar but I like the that they went with this would have been great to get more picks it would have been great to get off more salary it would have been great to get a guy under team control there were definitely a lot of flaws in the process here um and the B from like a business side I think they lost the deal but I do appreciate and like the fact that they’re getting young guys with upside who were high draft picks as distressed assets that’s that’s how they should be moving forward especially as a team without additional future picks like that’s how you have to go about rebuilding and kind of just getting yourselves back on track here with with a younger core all right well just just in case giddy turns into an all NBA superstar down the road um let’s let’s make sure the receipts are out there so that if we’re wrong or partly wrong people will be able to call us out about it what are our official grades for this Alex kuso for Josh giddy player for player straight up swap um because there are a lot of grades going around shout out to our guy Ricky of as Nation he gave the Bulls an f and the Thunder an A+ Uh Kevin Pelton did a great for ESPN plus that I saw this morning he gave the Thunder an A and the Bull’s a c minus so a little bit Kinder than Ricky um I don’t know if Joey you you were able to make that graphic or not but anyway I uh I obviously also gave the Thunder an a uh oh I gave him an A+ yeah no okay that checks out I think like Caruso is the like the perfect piece to add to that team that is contending for a championship right now and I I wasn’t quite as harsh as Ricky I gave I gave aka the Bulls a D minus um the D minus is instead of an F because I am hopeful it means that there are more moves following this one and that they are finally actually going to try something else hey congratulations you made your first trade in three years yes D minus that’s a special um but the reasons that you said Matt um are the reasons why I get gave the Bulls the C+ um because I do think it means change I do think it signals that I think that it’s going to be better um and I don’t hate giddy like I just don’t I don’t hate giddy at all and the potential he has the potential to make that C+ actually be actual B+ like he has that kind of potential if he comes out he does his thing like that but it’s the fact that for me this signals that okay we recognize what we did and we are going to be true to our word out here and actually start the hell over and and bring something new in here and have some younger guys as will said get in here and run around and you know see what we got because we can’t run this same thing back out on the floor that’s what the C+ honestly was for um for for for that move right there and for the fact that I actually little higher on giddy than than uh most people are I guess I should say most people than Matt is um a little higher uh on him uh as far as his potential is concerned what he could be just because he’ll have the basketball and have a chance to show everyone exactly uh what he can do because he’s not coming off the floor and it and he stays on the floor and you know I Believe season two he played 76 and last season he played what 80 or something like that but he’s gonna play and he’s gonna get his opportunity his minutes are G to be up so that means his uh numbers are gon to be up too but yeah like that’s why I gave it man that’s exactly why I gave him that c plus because you’re actually telling oh man okay fine we’re actually GNA do some [ __ ] that that’s worthy of his plus Reagan in the comments said man I wish any of my teachers in school graded like Big Dave does a C+ what they deserve regardless of what the trade return was for Caruso at this point they flat out deserve an F for waiting this long to do it that alone makes them worthy of an F I gave him a D minus out of Charity in the hope that this finally means we’re going to see change around here will that’s nice of you but you gave him some charity and I did too just your charity that time was this still charity I I think I gave OKC an A+ and uh maybe a d for the Bulls maybe I’m maybe I want to move it up to a D+ um look in a vacuum the Bulls lost this trade in a big way I think they had opportunities to get a better deal for Caruso and didn’t um I think they as we’ve kind of talked about ad nauseum here like I think they lost on negotiations I think this does not help them from a cap standpoint I think they missed opportunities to get picks or dumb bad salary uh they they lost out on opportunities to attach Caruso to LaVine in order to move him which I don’t necessarily think is that big of a problem but now that’s off the table um but again I do think I’m a little bit higher on giddy than some I like the fact that they’re going younger they should have gotten picks um but those weren’t a available in this scenario and so um this is much better than if they were to have gone after like you know an older player to continue to try to like win now or broken this up into multiple older players to try to keep on swinging here and maybe it’s still gonna happen that way like as uh Jake fiser noted there’s like maybe some potential interest in kcp uh there’s still reported interest in Demar and bringing him back um so like I think the the outside context of what will come does have an effect on this but in a vacuum I think the Bulls lost this trade badly uh they have a they have potential to make it better they have potential to make it worse but I think the the real issue to me here is that like it’s another example of AK losing a deal on the margins and not capitalizing when you had a chance so for that reason I think it’s like not a passing grade by any means I like I think they could have done a lot better I would have maybe gone a couple of different directions just in general because again I think I’m a little bit higher than giddy but like doesn’t necessarily mean I think he’s you know a franchise pillar so that was my grade um you know I think somebody mentioned Lonzo in the comments and how he factors in here too I thought that was an interesting kind of wrinkle from what w tweeted I was gonna say Darnell made a little note in his write up about all of this it sounds like Lonzo could be on his way out yeah yeah so you know we’ll see how much do they extend gidy for what other moves do they make I think that all that stuff matters and does impact the Bulls score in this regard but just in a vacuum don’t don’t love the deal uh Colin in the comments saying I’m not giving AK a passing grade for learning algebra at age 50 meanwhile Rockstar 80 saying giddy will be the superior player over cruso by next year book it um wow how about that uh also it sounds like we got a thunder fan in the chat the great Duke brother brother saying I was pretty shocked we didn’t give you any draft piics along with Josh gidy um yeah yeah so yeah so so are we um real quick before we get out of here we are about out of time so does are are the three of us on the same page that if this was the first of many moves that AKA plans on making to shake up this roster like he said uh when the bull season concluded are are we all in agre ment that the next Domino is going to be a salary dump trade for Zack LaVine now that Zack LaVine and Caruso cannot be packaged together and second part of that question do we think that Zack LaVine trades happens between now and draft night on Wednesday I’ll answer first because I’ll be quick yes Sacrament he’s going to Sacramento it’s done he’s out next go ahead will I love you Dave um I think a couple of things now after having after having executed this trade I think a couple of future Things become even more important number one you cannot give up assets to move Zack LaVine you absolutely cannot do it um if that means you got to keep Zach and let Demar walk so be it but like the fact that you did not get future assets for Caruso means that if you give up picks to move Zach you’re going into a rebuild with negative picks you absolutely cannot do that um if they had gotten a ton of picks for curo and then could attach one of them to move Zach okay maybe a little bit more pal palatable but like you cannot go into a rebuild with negative picks that would be a dis so I think that’s one big key here I think keeping their pick next year in the draft top 10 protected to the Spurs in the 2025 draft supposed to be a loaded class I think even if they’re drafting like five or six that could be better than maybe the number one pick in this draft absolutely critical to keep your pick and again go into next season Kobe IO Patrick giddy Dal Terry Julian Phillips number 11 pick this year and a number you know five or 10 pick you know a top 10 pick in next year’s draft that’s a young core I think fans can be excited about that’s a direction I think fans can be excited about if those things happen I think that again this trade looks a lot better even if they maybe lost on the margins um as for Zach again you just cannot let him go you cannot attach assets to dump him I I think that would be a disaster and so um we’ll see if they do that but like to me I would much rather keep him than then force that deal just to create the space that you need to bring back tomorrow I think somebody in the comments a minute ago was mentioning like another reason that you would have liked to get a pick of some kind in the Caruso deal is that it would sting less if the Bulls do end up having to attach an asset to Zach and now if you do you’re you’re giving up something that is yours and not something that you just got in a trade and aren’t too attached to yet um yeah which is unfortunate all right uh sadly we are out of time for the day we are out of time for the week uh thank you for tuning in to Today’s Show thanks for tuning in all week like I said uh we went live right when this news broke yesterday we had Kendall Gillan studio with us if youve missed that Thursday episode go give it a watch now or any point this weekend when you got a free hour and want to torture your Bulls fan brain a little bit more because today wasn’t enough um we we’ll be back next week starting Monday with a fresh episode and another fun special guest in studio with us on Monday we’re going to have a couple of guests next week leading into the draft on Wednesday night which by the way quick reminder and plug come hang out with us PB&J in the West Loop live csj Bulls draft party night draft party show we will go live at 7pm Central right when the NBA draft kicks off we’ll see what the heck the Bulls are going to do with the 11th pick um on that Wednesday night come hang out with us at PB&J free entry come hang out great deals from our friends at Kors light presenting sponsors for all of our draft coverage next week and into other parts of the offseason in the meantime this weekend uh read all of goat stuff over the last week allo.com follow him willor Godly Big Dave is at B bawl Sports what your people go listen to this weekend Dave oh why Lord about no worries go listen that G to get right now go listen to it shout out CR incredible as well listen to the man who knows all the music uh big day bwl Sports on bulls we are chuor bulls shout out to our producers Joey and stepen behind the controls we will talk to you on Monday next week have a wonderful weekend Chicago happy birthday brother Dave shout out bro love you see you next time Bulls Nation see be good get some sleep wheel

The CHGO Bulls crew evaluates the trade that brought Josh Giddey to the Chicago Bulls for Alex Caruso in a player-for-player deal on Thursday. Most were shocked that the Bulls got no draft compensation from the Oklahoma City Thunder in the deal. Did Sam Presti get the better of Arturas Karnisovas in this negotiation? Matt, Big Dave and Will give their grades for the trade. Plus, the guys discuss how each team’s PR handled the news of the trade and how the Bulls are being perceived in NBA circles. And if the Caruso trade signifies a rebuild beginning, what is the next domino to fall? Zach LaVine to the Kings, a DeMar DeRozan sign-and-trade, waiving Lonzo Ball?

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