Miami Heat: 2015 Draft Revisited — Justise not better? | Five on the Floor

Miami Heat: 2015 Draft Revisited — Justise not better? | Five on the Floor

welcome latest episode of five on the floor in the five reason Sports Network thanks for joining us on your favorite podcast app Android recommend Spotify or the Five Reasons YouTube channel on Apple Apple podcast also check out off the floor get all the latest Miami Heat information without having to scroll through Twitter $22.99 per month you can find the link right here in the description on the podcast feed and on the YouTube channel also check out the great sponsors five Reon sports that includes our friends over at prize picks legal again in the State of Florida we know that some of the sports that you follow are winding but there are others still going on you can still play MMA there’s tennis there’s golf there’s WNBA there’s lots of stuff to do on prize picks so get your fix in use the code five FIV get that initial deposit matched up to $100 and the code is five FIV football will be here soon enough you want to be on there before then and now today’s episode five on the floor ride for my dogs where here the thing you can check the score Hustle Hard couple scars we bubble frogs just like brother said you in trouble yo check the Flor play got a all B y’all seen the block stop with one hand and P trust it’s SP have the guts we here to bring the heat y’all can hang it up welcome to five on the floor a daily Insider show on the Miami Heat and the NBA featuring Ethan scholet Greg sander and Alex Toledo plus others from the five reasons Sports Network all right welcome back to five on the floor here’s today’s floor plan I’m Ethan skullnick and follow me Ethan J skolnick and at five Reon Sports we got Greg sander you can follow me at Greg sander we got Alex too you can follow him at Tropical blanket I apologize if I’m a little distracted I’m currently getting videos from my daughter’s first day at heat camp and I can tell you she’s already got the Jason Tatum push off uh perfected here not sure about what else has been perfected uh watching this but Tony fantino told me he was going to make a run today so we’ll see how that see how that goes I want to appreciate the the folks at heat camp for taking good care of my daughter today and again check it out at heat.com all the junior heat camps that they’ve got going on Tony runs a tight [ __ ] man I I was there this morning and uh you know they let the parents stay and watch I couldn’t stay the whole time I’ll go more tomorrow and uh I’m watching it he got lined up it’s like drill sergeant stuff he’s got them in the age groups and then Tony’s telling them they better make their bed which thank you because my daughter’s not made her bed in about eight months um and there’s like a pile of laundry on top of her hamper that she blamed me for cuz she says I don’t get to it soon enough so she just throws the clean that the dirty stuff on top of it it’s not my job um so I want to appreciate Tony doing that for me but we’ll see how that goes uh at heat Camp of course our Sean Rochester is a proud graduate of uh of heat Camp uh as well all right um someone who won’t be at heat Camp speaking is although uh you know he’s a nice guy and he comes back uh around these ways sometimes Justice Winslow we’re going to talk about the 2015 draft make sure that you check out uh the previous episodes we’ve done 2003 on Dwayne draft 2008 on the Michael Beasley draft also the guys on playback have already done the Tyler hero draft which was 2019 and I believe they might do the haime hakz draft uh before we get started there maybe even the BAM draft but on this one we’re going to talk about the Justice Winslow draft and I’ll just tell you this because again there’s a lot of uh as we go go to Greg and uh and Alex on this there’s a lot of revisionist history going on here um because at the time Heat fans wanted Justice Winslow uh and did not think Justice Winslow was going to fall and I can tell you that I was in Chicago uh for pre-draft camp and talked to a lot of players there and I can tell you that a certain heat uh executive texted me because he felt I was spending too much time and tweeting too much about Stanley Johnson uh and that this was going to give away the Heat’s uh you know desires prior to the draft please stop tweeting so much about Stanley Johnson um I I don’t really take direction that but it was kind of funny he was joking uh but of course Stanley Johnson uh was projected by most people to be the Heat’s pick at 10 because Justice winow was projected by some to go in the top five um and I’ll go through the draft here again Carl Anthony towns first D’Angelo Russell second Jalil okaf for third Chris chops porzingis new NBA champion fourth Mario honia fifth Willie KY Stein sixth Emanuel moodier I was wrong about him I loved him at Summer League uh seventh Stanley Johnson eighth Frank Kaminsky ninth Justice Winslow 10th to Miami Miles Turner to Indie Trey Lyles to Utah and of course Devin Booker 13th by the way Terry Rosier went 16th in that draft uh to uh to Boston but and D went like right after Terry I think if I remember correct he he did he went um well not right after but he did go where was it uh I want to say like 20th yeah 20th he went four picks later and I remember being at at a 790 The Ticket draft party um I think at Gulf Stream or something like that and um and I remember people were actively hoping that Justice Winslow would fall the arena went crazy I was at that draft party the arena went nuts when he drafted Justice by the way and this was similar to Karan Butler slipping to 10 uh in 2002 and so I’ll give you the scene and then I’ll set you guys up on this my understanding of what happened that night okay was that they got the phone call okay and it wasn’t just them Charlotte got it too all right Jordan right ahead of them got the call too they ended up taking kinsky which was worse okay got the phone call that there were all these picks that were going to be offered and my understanding of this okay is that Pat turned to Adam Simon and said you always want picks do you want the picks or do you want the player they took the player so this idea again that you know this was you this crazy notion that you would want a guy like justice Winslow who had just performed really well in the tournament and actually had hit a bunch of Threes in the tournament uh which was one of the things I think that attracted them him to that was that they seemed like they could develop that part of the game and they did to a certain degree he shot 38% uh the year before the year he left he actually told me I remember Alex you and I were together but the my audio didn’t work I think we were in Palm Beach and Justice told me walking off the court that he was going to be a sniper that year um but unfortunately he was sniped out of town uh before but but Greg just going back to it like again there’s a lot of revisionist history here because I do not think people were pounding the table for Devin Booker with that pick I think some Heat fans had Devin Booker on the short list I think the heat had Devin Booker on the short list but I just think that this felt like Karan Butler scenario 2.0 where like a guy fell that was just too good you didn’t expect him to be there and so you kind of had to scrap what maybe was your plans and go with the guy that fell to you and yeah now with the benefit of hindsight it’s easy to be like oh well they should have taken Devin Booker or Miles Turner or one of those other guys I think Devon Booker is the one that creeps up on people the most maybe because the Kentucky con connection or some of the comments that have been made since the years after that but on draft night Heat fans felt like they had the best of Two Worlds and they basically got to choose which guy that was Injustice or if there would be you know Devin Booker fans out there but as the person who wrote Justice better for for Miami Heat beat I can tell you that we were super excited about Justice Winslow when he got here and he kind of felt like he was going to be the guy that Dwayne passed the torch to to some degree really early on in in his rookie season it seemed like he was being taken under that wing and so it it aligned initially and then just obviously fell off the rails as we went but I don’t think anyone can look back on draft night in 2015 and say that they were upset that the heat took Justice Winslow when they did no matter what it looks like today go to Alex on the second but you mentioned the Dwayne Justice connection I remember being in the interview room and uh they did a photo shoot together for Sports Illustrated a cover shoot uh the two of them there definitely was uh a push uh to make him the next big thing and he wanted it I mean he talked about being the next face of the franchise to the point of the 2019 season after they’d gotten Jimmy Butler and if you remember Justice had 277 and seven in the season op Jimmy missed the first three games due to personal issues uh with the heat he didn’t actually debut until the fourth game and like justice was acting like it was his team uh and then of course he was traded uh prior to covid uh you know in that that big deal that ended up netting Iguodala Crowder and Solomon Hill but Alex I I guess the reason people were excited about it was first thing he did look good as rookie year I mean whereas a lot of these rookies if you look at this draft okay this was did not turn out to be a great draft okay you’ve got cat D’Angelo Russell who has really I mean he’s had moments but he hasn’t as a winner lived up to the number two pick in the draft he’s been traded a couple times okaf for really didn’t pan out he was kind of you know back to the basket player at a time where it slow it didn’t really play out in the pros porzingis yes obviously honia went ended up going back overseas colie Stein’s been a role player moodier kind of a bust Stanley Johnson kind of a bust has bounced around Kaminsky definitely a bust um I mean if you look at the it’s amazing too because if you look at these guys like like the gamees played like okay you’ve got cat you’ve got Russell and porzingis who hasn’t even been that durable and then a lot of these guys Terry Rosier has played more games here’s a stat for you Terry Rosier has played the most games in his NBA career of any of the top 21 picks in that draft um and which will tell you something like a lot of these guys either became role players there’s one there’s a couple of stars towns and and Booker right so I mean it’s it’s not like the heat made a horrible pick it’s just who they didn’t pick yeah and I think that’s what it comes down to and that’s why it always gets brought up alongside you know precious a couple of years ago it’s like you know the the mistakes I feel like are given more of you know the I guess the expose than the than the uh good picks right because it’s like you know you could have had Devin Booker who was in the finals a couple of years ago um was the best player on that team I mean you can make a case so is Chris Paul I guess um since they they got so successful after they acquired him but regardless you know was a the main player of a finals team um don’t think any of us any of us thought he was gonna be that good right um he seemed like he was gonna be like a good shooter in the league somebody who could score but um I don’t think a lot of people had him becoming you know one of the best scorers in the league a top 20 or so type of player and somebody who could be the best player on a finals team so I mean um even with the way things have played out since where it’s been a lot of disappointment in Phoenix especially since you know they their their couple of big threes that they’ve trotted out um you know it’s it’s a lot right like because you went from Justice who was a productive player for you was was a helpful player for a playoff team right away um and then had this weird Arc where like they moved him um into being a point guard which is you know what we all thought should have happened because of the skill set that he had where he was better on the ball than off the ball you know became somewhat of a better shooter was a fantastic Defender from the start and frankly just to me like I something I I felt at the time as well was that his his um lack of finishing was a bigger problem than the three-point shooting because I felt like you know he could make a standstill wide openen three but like there was times like he would have the ball he could make a play with it create for others but when he got to the rim himself that to me was the the biggest issue with Justice and so Justice still better right we’re always we’re always in to keepy that gr but yeah it hurts because it’s like the guy is now in the G league and dein Booker is a top 20 player so it’s it’s just hard to overlook these things but man that like when you mentioned when you reminded me of that first game it was like you just brought me back it for like an alternate timeline or something where Justice is going crazy Jimmy hasn’t even played a minute for the heat yet and he’s still the starting point guard like it doesn’t feel like justice was a part of you know the Jimmy era like it feels like distant and it’s like and and at the you know at the end the day since I haven’t thrown one in here he ended up getting you three rotation players two of which were hugely important for you in the playoffs um because he was the main like thing that the that the other team was getting was it the Grizzlies yeah that the Grizzlies were getting back was Justice winow because no they weren’t making that trade for for an older James Johnson or Deion waiters no so you know it could have been worse right like I don’t think it’s as bad as the precious pick if we’re comparing there um because I think Justice was was actually a pretty good player but yeah just looking back on it now all the hindsight it’s unfortunate well I think you look at the arc with him in Miami too is um he made this weird transition from being seen as a total heat culture guy to the not like the rookie season like the whole narrative around him was he plays great defense um and you know you can plug him in anywhere and you know he just he fills all the holes on the court for you okay even if lacks finish yeah lacks some finishing lack some shooting and then ended up getting stuck at Center literally in the last game against Toronto but as the career went on there became these issues behind the scenes about health and you know what I had heard that year was that you know Justice basically thought his injury was worse than the heat did and that you know he went and saw a couple Specialists he didn’t really believe what the Specialists told him and that essentially the relationship became fractured Beyond repair it’s interesting in the context of the availability conversation that has happened over the past few months that at that time I guess the heat had a stricter uh attitude about it which I think they’re going to start to get back to um but it just seemed to people I think inside the organization he didn’t really didn’t want to play um and that it was a little Ben Simmons likee I don’t know if it ever got that bad but I that that is how it was sort of portrayed especially after the trade um that that they made with him uh and and you know the thing is the reality is the Jimmy Justice thing never would have worked Greg I mean because you just didn’t have enough shooting on the floor like I there you know we could talk I mean J Jimmy did everything Justice did better I hate to use that word guys better but he just did he was just a better version of Winslow in all those situ and so it’s like okay you really didn’t need another like that and so I I think his time just kind of passed again we can talk about Booker but let’s let’s close the book on Winslow here I mean do you think there’s any way it could have worked here I think as a rot ational Wing defender in the Jimmy era like there’s a place for him and bring him off the bench yeah Off the Bench there we go but it just to your point I think that there was also you have to remember that to get off Dion Waiters and James Johnson’s contracts like that was a big deal as well so that had a little bit to do with this and um I don’t know that Justice necessarily in the Jimmy era was really given a chance to work out like that it feels like things were fractured by that time and kind of they started to drift apart as the season went on and then obviously the trade happened so I I would say that they could have worked something out but never at the scale that I think Justice had envisioned himself coming in and being for Miami and that’s where the disconnect I think took place is that you had a guy who at one moment was talking about I want to be the face of the franchise to now being kind of an afterthought Off the Bench that just wasn’t the trajectory I think he nor the organization was on expecting does it remind a little bit although Tyler is obvious developed into more of a prominent player for the heat than Justice did but a little bit about a guy sort of feeling that his role and capability is maybe a little different than might be the ideal um because I it does remind me somewhat of that like the Justice feeling face of the franchise he wasn’t a face of the franchise type player he was a he was a really good role guy um you know Tyler has confidently put himself in the class of of Luca and others when really what the heat need from that spot is a really good catch and shoot guy um I I I there there are some similarities here I think you know again Tyler as we discussed uh and we did this on playback there’s no way you can argue that was a bad pick you just can’t I it it was he he he should have in a redraft he shouldn’t have gone 13 he should have gone really no later than sixth um but with Justice you can make arguments even though it didn’t turn out to be a great draft but I think I think there are some similarities uh in those two things all right when we come back we’re going to talk a little bit about Devin Booker here and kind of what everybody missed um before we do I want to mention a great sponsor of the five reason Sports Network don’t miss out uh if you have a leak in your place your home or business reach out to water cleanup of Florida immediately they’ll do the leak detection and if if something happens they’ll do the damage assessment as well clean it up for you completely work with your insurance company and all of that but check them out at wcu.com that’s wcu.com Michael Robert and his team more than 7 fstar reviews on Google again check it out at Water cleanup of Florida wcu.com if you got the schwoz they got the guts all right so Greg what did everybody miss on Devin Booker because if you look at the the numbers here I’m looking at total points from that draft he’s first 14529 career splits of 46 36 and 87 um some of their metrics he’s kind of like the second or third most productive player towns is actually first he’s in there with porzingis by the way Terry Rosier is the top 10 productive player from that draft um in fact you know who else is the top 10 productive player from that draft Corner line of the metrics Josh Richardson who actually the heat got at 40 and we should mention him because uh you know he made a big difference for them he was basically their seventh man they sent him back and forth to sou Falls uh that year and uh and to work on pick and roll stuff and everything else but he had a month where he was absolutely on fire from three shot like 55% from three he could not miss and of course he’s been brought back and he’s one of the more popular players in the organization we expect him to be back next year too most likely on that player option so they did better in that draft than most teams just the fact that they cashed in on a 40th pick uh although everybody’s focused on the 10th pick but Greg what what did everybody miss it wasn’t just them I say this about Maxi too it wasn’t just them I mean uh a lot of a lot of teams could have had but Devon Booker went he was picked 13th seems like the playmaking was a big part of it like that that was a part of his game that he’s developed as time has went on and then just the absolute volume scoring I mean you knew he was a good shooter and a good scorer but a 70 point guy that’s that’s reaching another realm so I think that those are I think his ceiling was was judged in correctly and then just the other parts of his game I think he’s a more complete player than maybe he was given credit for on draft night Alex what did what did everybody miss for sure I think Le pretty much nailed it there like he he he could just straight up do more than any of us pretty much thought that he could you know somebody that can be one of the best scorers in the league do it in a variety of ways whether on or off ball because he doesn’t he’s not just like somebody who needs to have the ball in his hands to score and I think that’s why there was some like appeal and like okay maybe the Suns can’t figure out this whole all offense thing because they’ve got a nice Trio of guys who can play on or off ball with KD beel and Booker all three of those guys can can play on or offs off the ball so I think you know know um Booker just getting to that level I I didn’t see that coming the other thing um that unless I’m wrong here correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure he came off the bench that season for Kentucky that was the year that was the team that uh was like undefeated or whatever if I if I remember correctly that they had the Harrison twins starting cat was in the starting lineup Trey L Stein colie Stein as well and mil and M and uh and and Trey lyes they had uh they basically had like four F Five Guys drafted I think because one of the Harrisons was drafted in the second round you’re right and that was part of it I mean Tyler look there was a little of that with Tyler too Tyler really didn’t come on till the second half of his freshman season and then he went but yeah I think that was part of it um I I I think he was view just as a shooter I I I really think that’s the case I don’t think it the playmaking skills and all that it’s funny because a lot of the same things that were said about Tyler was said about Booker and then of course people are going to throw this back in my face because I tweeted this but it’s what an someone in the organization said Tyler was told in his rookie season don’t look at being Devon Booker look at being better than him um and of course that has not happened although Tyler has had moments uh but again it does show you how you know projections can be wrong that guys can develop other skills and he did develop these other skills with Phoenix who knows it would have happened with Miami I tend to believe if it happened with Phoenix it would have happened with Miami um if you look at what they would have had at the time um you know again this was sort of a rebuild for the heat you know the BOS situation was up in the air they still had Dwayne too and you know because this was the 2015 draft and I just I wonder like how would that have looked like people don’t really talk about that but you I guess you’re going to play Booker at the three I’m I try to get away from the position stuff but you know that that was something with Justice it was kind of like okay Justice was kind of position lless like wasn’t a great shooter the point guard thing was really something Miami heatbeat invented uh and then and espe theas right and then it kind of became uh more of a heat thing and a Heat fan thing after that but with Devon there was that question I I think and you know Dwayne was getting older and I know people are gonna say well this was the natural air to Dwayne and all that I I don’t think that anybody was viewing it that way at the time I just think there’s a frustration because the heat have gone to Kentucky and here’s one opportunity they could have gone to Kentucky and got a star star and then there was another one that came up a few years later and they didn’t get either of them and we’re still debating now whether or not the Kentucky guard they have uh can be that guy so anyway Greg I’ll let you close the loop on this we appreciate our sponsors water to cleanup tons of draft coverage coming up this week by the way I do want to mention we will have a playback Wednesday during the draft go to playback download the app playback it’s free playback. TV5 RSN you can watch the draft along with us I’m going to be in New York Alex and Brady will be uh here in Miami Greg will be hosting podcasts we’ve got Ben tovia uh and our our photographer Kevin Rodriguez are going to be out at the draft party at Dolphin Mall so we have everything covered we got a big team of of people that are going to be doing this um Greg I’ll let you close the loop on this listen if the Justice pick could feel so right at the time and now you see what happens it’s just a it shows you that these drafts are unpredictable as hell and no matter who they draft you should keep an open mind because you don’t know which way these things are going to go from one year to the next guys trajectory completely Chang es so I think that it is instructed to see the Winslow draft as one that Heat fans were cheering about on draft night and now look back on with a little more disdain because they think what if uh you may get similar scenarios and sometimes you’re right sometimes you’re wrong but the heat tend to be more right than wrong it appears with these drafts lately the other thing by the way before you wrap this up that’s kind of like re relevant to what we’re talking about here Ethan you mentioned the Kentucky guards and the ones that the heat didn’t take right and now like have a guy this week who in Rob Dillingham who is falling right and could potentially be in the Heat’s range um when they’re on the clock there and could be available and you know he’s a lot smaller than Tyrese Maxi so I don’t know if this is and a lot smaller than Devin Booker and just a lot smaller than pretty much anybody in the league when you look at weight but um yeah like that’s kind of relevant here like as we do this episode is they have another they might have another opportunity with a Kentucky guard like that and you know we’ll see we’ll see if they up on this one we’ll see we did a playback on him as well I’m smiling here because my daughter gave her a review of her first day of uh heat Camp so here maybe she’ll be drafted amazing I love basketball Hearts exclamation points I had so much fun I also learned how to shoot correctly see that’s more than Justice wiow was able to do with the heat a few years all right have a good one everybody thank you for listening to the five on the floor on the five re and Sports Network after all someone needs to listen to my dad

The Miami Heat picked 10th in the NBA Draft in 2015, and no one thought Justise Winslow would slide to them. But he did. And they took him over Devin Booker. Ethan, Alex and Greg review the thinking at the time, and discuss what could have been.

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