How Donovan Clingan Fits with the Portland Trail Blazers and Deandre Ayton

How Donovan Clingan Fits with the Portland Trail Blazers and Deandre Ayton

in today’s show we talk all things Donovan kingan his day one fit and whether he can really play next to DeAndre Aon welcome to lockdown Blazers let’s get into [Music] it you are locked on Trailblazers your daily Portland Trailblazers podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team everyday what what up world it’s your past first point guard and Trailblazers reporter Mike Richmond you are listening to another episode of Locked on Blazers part of the locked on podcast network available wherever you get Podcast and also on YouTube thanks for making this show your first listen coming at you each and every weekday Monday through Friday so make it a part of your daily routine make your first list and tell your friends to do the same it’s lock on Blazers your team every day in today’s show we’re talking Donovan cing and the Blazers new big rookie the number seven pick in the 2024 NBA draft I want to talk about his immediate day one fit as a rookie in the league I want to talk about his fit with DeAndre Aon and what that means for DA’s future and also there is a lot of scuttle butt in the sort of Blazers fan world and it was addressed by uh chony bips Joe Cronin at the at Donovan kingan’s introductory press conference about the the the reality of trying Donovan kingan and DeAndre Aon together in a two towers one Center Court lineup of everyone’s dreams talk about all of that in today’s show um I’m spend some time talking about you know the league going bigger and all of those things um the Blazers certainly got bigger with with um with Donovan kinging I don’t think the League’s may be going bigger o overall um size has always been incredibly valuable what’s changed in the modern NBA is that size and plus skill is incredibly valuable it’s like you just would need more dribble pass and shoot guys who are 6 foot eight um it’s just it’s uh it’s size has always been a premium for since the league has existed um it’s just changed in what ways we put a premium on very tall people to be skilled but Donovan kingan is huge uh north of 71 Barefoot 280 PBS I think on a show last week on draft night I called him 240 a couple times 280 280 he’s huge right measured measured uh weighed over 280 lbs at the draft combine he’s he’s a giant person he’s going to wear number 23 flip-flopping his college number from 32 because 32 of course is retired belong to Bill Walton the man uh right over my right shoulder had to check check and make sure he was still there um he is what Chon phips called the best rim protector in the draft um probably depending on what Alex SAR becomes and I think sar’s defense might be in a different spot but certainly one of the best defensive bigs in his draft class taken number seven overall his like I mentioned when he got drafted drafted that I think the um drafting a a center at seven with DeAndre Aon you know in after one year with the team heading into this season and next on his deals that it it it it’s it would be very curious if the Blazers would offer DeAndre like a contract extension it’ be very curious if they were to sign him to a big fat multi-year deal after this and that the the addition of Clingan probably means the long-term marriage between DeAndre and and the Blazers is is not particularly likely but that’s a ways away from that decision being made they’re not going to make it this year it would be probably irresponsible to kind of like clear the decks for Donovan kingan to play someone who didn’t even play that much in college to play a ton of minutes in the NBA the blazes are are pretty crowded at Center if um if Robert Williams is healthy and able to play a bunch this season but if not then they’ll have three centers which is a totally reasonable number like reasonable and correct number and maybe um some other sping on what they do with with the two-way spots but even if the drafting of Donovan kingan means the sort of overall long-term couple years down the line that deand drton is not going to be you know back on a big money contract to play for the Portland triple agers the the the night one fit is that Donovan kingan is a backup center right like he’s that part is really simple don’t overthink it right like don’t overthink it DeAndre Aon is not an old person uh he’s 25 turning 26 like he was pretty good the last couple months of the season after a very Rocky beginning in Portland but he but kind of found his stride and figured out um some ways to be more impactful and like I think kingan just in terms of um organizational Investments is going to easily Leap Frog do up reath um reath is a really interesting fun guy to root for but like he’s not a very good defensive player and um he’s not good enough on offense to offset that and he’s also like a 28-year-old second-year player making $2 million he wasn’t the seventh pick in the draft there are going to be nights when it’s really useful to have du up wreath uh his skill set is unique and valuable on the roster but I think kingan just by virtue of of of the amount of investment that they’ve put into him by drafting him in the lottery leap flog Leap Frogs to uath the other complication here is Rob Williams I am sort of going to move forward in the rest of this episode um assuming that Rob Williams like I don’t know what his health is going to be like I know there’s been some speculation that he’ll be ready for were uh ready for training camp but I I will say that his ex at his exit interview he was very cautious about putting a timeline on it um and the Blazers could obviously trade him he seems like the most of the of the big like the most obvious uh trade chip but I think like he’s a he’s a trade candidate and there’s health concerns about him just in terms of like General like high level you know long you know big minute availability so let’s move forward in this discussion with the assumption that that Rob Williams is probably not part of like a um a long long longterm plan like a full season plan for the Blazers one way or another whether he’s whatever that might mean for him so kingan you know if if Rob Williams is healthy and good to go I do think that puts a little that confuses things but that’s not a conversation for um early July that’s a conversation that we’ll have in the fall I promise I do this every day we’ll talk about it in the fall if Rob Williams is still on the roster um so Clingan is going to play something like 18 to 20 minutes a night you know DeAndre aen played between you know depending on kind of he he played started to play more at the end of the season but like 32 to 34 minutes typical starter minutes in that 32-minute range um so there’s like 16 plus minutes for for Clingan um just naturally in the lineup plus if they do play any minutes together say they play you know three minutes a game a very small sample against the right lineup a game he’s playing like 20ish minutes a night and if he has it rolling he plays a little bit longer etc etc right like so like 18 to 20 17 to 20 a night I think is a pretty reasonable guess for what for what clingan’s night one role looks like that’s fine like that’s fine he played 13 minutes a game as a freshman um at Yukon he was behind Adam sonogo like and he was not nearly as good of him he was as good as him he was a really intriguing backup center and they were gigantic um and they won the national championship and Clingan was like H wow I can’t believe they have another someone that big and that skilled behind um like that talented behind him but um even in year two when he was the clear-cut starter Samson Johnson was playing a bunch of minutes and and kingan only played 22 and a half minutes a game as a sophomore like he was not a big minute College college basketball player so expecting him to translate to be like a 30 minute night NBA guy in year one is it doesn’t make sense the I think foul trouble is going to be an issue for him foul trouble is usually an issue for every rookie and particularly Bigs like I like is he going to be able to be on the court enough to play 30 minutes you’d hope so he hope he figures it out unless he like really um effective in that way but like it would be very normal if he just like was about about capable of playing at the most when the half the game and most nights he played less than that I think that’s a very very normal role and I’ll say this uh kingan was introduced on Saturday at the Blazers practice facility in his um uh in his introductory press conference and he says the right things he’s about winning he’s won two High School championships and won two college championships he’s won a lot in the his last four years of playing basketball he says the right things he’s about winning that’s what he cares about and his role is to help the team win and he’ll do those things and he love uh when as about Jason quick why he he loves defense or sort of his appr where his appreciation for defense he said his mom helps him grow an appreciation for for defense his mother passed away in 2018 and and and Clingan uh has spoken openly many times in the media about what an inspiration sort of um his mother’s memory has been to him in his basketball Journey she herself was a very good basketball player he says the right things he’s easy to root for this is a dude you can you could like but he is on day one backup center for now I think that is a very reasonable responsible probably the correct role for him is that you don’t throw him into a big minute role where he’s going to struggle you kind of narrow his ask keep him in a silo and say if you do these things you know you can you’ll stack the Grain and get to the top but but kind of keep it keep it relatively simple for a young guy and we worry so much about what prospects can’t what young players and NBA players in general what they can’t do the best thing for development is to figure out what you do really well and do that and then parts to that but like figure out what you do really well and in theory Don MC what he’s going to really do well is be gigantic and protect the rim and I think he has a chance to be I I I believe eventually he’ll be just like a straight up good defender in the NBA um it would be interesting to see how quickly he can get to being a passable defender in the NBA but there’s a world in which being 72 280 and having some good basketball instincts helps you kind of accelerate the learning curve for one specific thing Spain defense I think he can get there quickly uh relatively quickly and um obviously on a team as talented as a Blazers it’s like we’re grading on a curve but when Joe Cronin drafted Donovan kingan he he he knew that this wasn’t he knew what you and I knew right so when I said on the show like that night of the draft it’s like huh that doesn’t seem like it’s a long-term doesn’t seem like that that is a long-term commitment to DeAndre seems like the clock is ticking and and I still believe that 100% I still believe that hasn’t changed in a few days and Cronin knew that too so he called DeAndre Aon who’s warming up uh for the Olympics season a tuneup Olympic qualifying tuneup before they go to Spain in uh next week or maybe the week yeah next week um to see if the Bahamas can qualify for the Olympics uh CH phips according to Jason quick is headed to Spain he’s going to watch Da in in those qualifiers um they uh I believe they played even this week I said next week this week as uh this coming Tuesday is when it starts um so DA’s on the phone and he says yeah I’m into it I’m excited I want I I want I want to find out what Donovan Clint can do to help me what I can do to help him and how we can both help the team together like I said the simplest thing is that you split them up d008 plays 32 minutes you get uh 16 minutes from Donovan cling and each and that’s what you do each night and that’s the plan and as guys grow you make decisions from there but that’s like the simplest plan but the Blazers are going to play these dudes together at least a little bit they’re going to experiment with it and I think not only is am I in favor of it I think they have to let’s talk about why they have to and uh and what it’s going to look like in the second segment join me there won’t you first though I want to tell you that Today’s Show is brought to you by FanDuel it’s America’s number one sports book and just because Sports slow down a little bit in the summertime we got WNBA action today we got MLB games today my beloved Rockies won a baseball game in 13 Innings um but even with even with a you know a slightly a slightly less full day of sports FanDuel is still making it worth your while each and every day all summer long cuz they’re hooking up all customers not new customers old customers season vets to the FanDuel World anybody who messes around with FanDuel all customers with a Bo a boost or a bonus daily that’s right there’s something for everyone every day all summer long so head over to fanduel.com lockon and start making the most of your summer that’s FanDuel official sports betting partner of Major League [Music] Baseball all right F so it’s it’s going to happen DeAndre Aon and Donovan cling are going to play together how much they play together I think will be largely determined by its overall quality impact but um I mentioned this last year heading into the season that when it was pretty clear that the blazes were going to at least experiment a little bit but not a lot but a little bits with the Rob Williams and DeAndre Aon pairing is that do it do it why would you not do it this this is incredibly important to this sort of like where the Blazers are if nothing else like if if you if you you know obviously they’re they’re probably not going to be a particularly good basketball team next year although I think they’ve like just like today they’re probably better than they were uh than when they were last season if you just replace Donovan like Moses Brown’s minutes with Donovan kingan um and Denny AIA I think is going to help a lot like if you just like start today probably better right probably better but like not meaningfully better and if you’re not meaningfully better if you’re still one of the bad teams in the league why not be a a place an incubator program a place to experiment a place to a place to find out what you are and maybe maybe not even what you are but like what you could be like truly experiment with things because you you have you’ve created this Lane for yourselves to like truly mess around so do I think like you know do I think Donan clingin and DeAndre hton can be like the long-term starters on this Team Hell No no no they can’t start next to each other I don’t even think they could play Big minutes next to each other in most NBA games because too many teams have put four ball handlers out in the court and that’s going to be a problem but they should absolutely give it a shot and I and by by a shot I mean like commit to it for you know in the right matchups commit to it pretty heavily say okay let’s see if this works we’re playing we’re playing you know we’re playing Minnesota we’re playing Cleveland obviously the rosters can change but we’re playing teams that go big um and and I play with two sort of more traditional bigs particularly Minnesota it’s like let’s try it let what if we did this for 17 minutes tonight like what if they did share the court for like big chunks of the second and third quarters give it a shot like TR try it try it I think it’s incredibly important however I’m pretty pretty skeptical of it being effective that’s not why I’m not like I’m I’m in favor of trying it because um I think finding out you’re wrong about stuff is the interesting part of basketball um and like being having the freedom to experiment without the pressure to win games is like gives you more and more reason to try things that even you might not think they work but let’s see what they do maybe we can learn something else or figure out these other things why I’m skeptical of the pairing working right like I think the night one just like SPL split their minutes have them not play together it’s a modern NBA it’s Pace in space like and I I think it’s like the the reason that you would like theoretically do it right and I think the reason that that folks talk about the two big lineups is because of Defense you’re going to play defense and and to be clear like um being big is very valuable um it’s still in the league stopping teams from making layups like defending the rim is still the most valuable thing you can do you can’t really prevent teams from shooting threes you can kind of take away certain types of Threes you can you can do a better job of taking away Corner threes or catch and shoot three like you limit some catch and shoot threes not all of them but some right but like you know you can maybe take a team maybe usually takes 35 you can probably hold to 28 right and that’s um and and maybe not always depending on the type of Shooters they have right but the thing you can do like schematically do is shut down the rim right you could shut down the rim so like be being big seems to help that but I am in general skeptical of a two Center pairing on defense because just the mobility of of Aon and kinging together seems dicey um it really does and I I’ll give some sort of other examples later in the show but like kingan’s not mobile he’s big and he has good he has like a fast brain like is he clearly can like process defense quickly but his feet don’t move that fast in fact early in the season when I watched Yukon in one of those early season tournaments and also against uh they played Carolina early in the year as well it’s like I thought Clingan was really big but I thought he was slow like and he was coming back from injury and like and maybe that’s like a fitness and and um an injury thing and it’s like if he doesn’t if he can stay healthy and get continue to get his Fitness up maybe he can continue to like get in shape and be and be um able to move L for long stretches but like maybe he just some really big guys like him are going to be slow that’s life um and you know he’s probably he he’s got a he’s got a good processing speed but he’s just never going to be hyper mobile and da is pretty mobile for a seven-footer but he’s not mobile for like an NBA player right like he’s not mobile like relative to the mean he’s he’s just mobile for like someone his size like he’s he does have pretty good lateral Mobility for someone his size but he’s not this like Chase around screens crazy versatile Defender like he’s a drop big also so if you’re playing them two together um I’m worried about the mobility in the half court and I’m really the other thing I I think is like the big one that I maybe people don’t always circle is like transition defense is tough with two guys have that top speed like da can run but he’s not a flyer and kingan is not fast um and it’s just like if the other team’s going to knows that you’re big and they’re going to run run run run run run run run run like you are going to give up transition points and then you’re going to scramble in transition and get in bad matchups and like the whole thing about being big would be like to get in the right matchups and match up and use your size because it works against a certain team and when teams run they can kind of blow that up um so I’m worried about mobility in the half court and transition defense and like this is a different thing and it’s not a perfect comparison but in the very very very limited minutes that we saw the Blazers try two big lineups with both duop reath and Rob Williams they got shredded now the they’re like two man Twan pairings like lineup data is already kind of busy in like noisy in and of itself it’s maybe not the most useful data um but like two man pairings is even noisier it’s just like so it’s so susceptible because it’s a small sample size and kind of and just the randomness of it like it’s so susceptible to like dude made a shot oh we look like we’re bad on defense now dude missed a shot hey we’re a pretty good defensive team in the way that like um you know I think Kevin Pelton from ESPN had a thing about how like it’s about 500 minutes together as has a fiveman unit for it to be start to get a little bit less noisy um so like it’s just like you’re never going to get there with with these these groups that said the advanced stats behind wreath and and uh Rob Williams sharing two like two big lineups with Aon were awful and just your eyeballs particularly with wreath your eyeballs like nope that doesn’t work kingan is different than duop wreath defensively just a totally different player he’s just way bigger he’s going to protect the rim a lot better he’s just he’s the verticality um reath is slower and smaller and his Val on offense and and clinging is is bigger and larger his values on defense it’s just different um and Rob Williams just play he played so few games that it’s not super meaningful but I watched it and it got shredded absolutely absolutely shredded that’s my that I’m worried on defense but I’m in favor of trying it on offense though my skepticism is that it starts with the shooting the obvious thing it starts with the spacing these dudes aren’t exactly spacers they’re not exactly dudes who who who are known for stretching it out Le let’s talk a little bit about that in the second segment because there is this belief and optimism that Donovan kingan’s going to become a shooter and if you remember this show if you’re an everyday or there was some belief and optimism from this very podcaster that DeAndre Aton maybe was going to become a shooter last fall well that didn’t exactly happened let’s talk about the big guys in shooting and my other concerns about where this fits on offense and then I want to offer some some examples of um of of two big lineups across the NBA and and one that I think the Blazer or the Blazers can maybe try to emulate one that I think is actually attainable um like a goal for them to try to push towards join me in that third segment won’t you still a pass vers point guard I’m still Mike Richmond you are still listening to lockon Blazers uh as I mentioned like the number one concern with was sort of the offense of the offensive pairing sharing the with Aon and cling and again I don’t think they’re going to do this a bunch but I think people are curious enough about it that I want to dive deep in here um it’s it’s a fun it’s sort of a topic that’s on been on my mind I think it’s on the mind of a bunch of listeners I don’t think they’re going to play a ton together and Chon buls has said as much but one of the reasons I’m concerned about their offense is the main reason I’m concerned about their offense I think is it starts with shooting certainly it’s one of my concerns it starts with shooting it’s not the only thing but it starts with shooting Clingan took nine threes in college in two years he took nine threes one is freshman year at his sophomore season there’s some optimism about um his shooting development CH phips mentioned that when he came to work out for the Blazers and the Blazers have released the released the highlight tape of his private workout with the Blazers um when when when Bill said he came and worked out it’s like he was getting shots up and they looked clean and easy like they he looked like someone who could shoot threes with with relative ease sure you know and I think Jonathan gavone of ESPN has mentioned that in a couple places that teams and I think count the Blazers among teams maybe it’s Team without the S teams um are had some faith that kinging could develop into a three-point shooter sure he might he also shot 55.8% from the free throw line in college 58% from his sophomore season let’s just let’s round up let’s call let’s only count his sophomore season he shot 58% from the free throw line of sophomore season does that scream to you someone who’s an elite jump shooter or even like a elite shooting touch period I think there’s an eventuality where Donovan kingan shoots threes um I don’t like I said in the earlier in the show I don’t want him to worry about what he can’t do I want the I want it to be narrow in a silo build up build up what you do don’t don’t don’t try to spread that that lateral uh expansion right like just it’s um there there’s no need for the horizontal integration of your skills like just just do what you do well is there an eventuality where I think kingan could be like a standstill good three-point shooter sure right like scouting people are probably better at understanding what guys can grow into and gavon is like really good at this like I’m I’m not going to um and and and bips obviously like NOS ball um but like I’m a little skeptical eventually he can get there but is he going to do it in the first two seasons the the two years that he’s like at this point guaranteed to play next to Andre Aton is he going to be a meaningful NBA shooter in years one or two in the NBA no come on no no because it’s not just shooting them and making them it’s putting up enough volume that they worry about it and it’s putting up with enough volume and enough speed that they actually guard you um like nerk started to shoot threes and he start to make threes but they never cared about it no one cared about it it was a really slow release and it just and the teams just say okay shoot it shoot it great like we’ll live we will live with that if that’s the thing we’re going to give away that we’re happy to live with it you’re not getting offensive rebounds we’re running the other way um like it’s it’s they were they were fine with it even when nurk was shooting pretty well the volume matters the accuracy matters but the volume is really really really important for three-point Shooters if you’re going to take one and a half a game no one’s going to worry DeAndre aon’s taken 93s in six seasons across 358 games and this doofus right here talking in the microphone or if you’re listening if you’re not watching on YouTube this doofus in your ear right now um or I guess you’re in your car that’s still your ear that’s how you listen to stuff that’s how that’s how we all hear things this doofus that you hear right now I thought I thought was like DeAndre Hatton he’s GNA I think he can shoot threes this year he’s going to have he’s going to have a chance to to expand his range he’s you know cart blanch to do whatever he wants on a totally open-ended roster with no rules and all these things and he didn’t take a three for his first 40 appearances in a Trailblazers uniform 40 games that’s half the year 40 games he took one in game 41 40 games he’s taken 93s and 358 NBA appearances he took 10 all of last season he is not going to shoot be someone who shoots threes he’s just not going to if he didn’t do it last year what deandre’s going to take six threes a game next season he just he what DeAndre Ron does he does pretty damn well he shoots between four feet and 20 feet and he he’s he’s really like by some measurements one of the great mid-range Shooters in the history of the NBA he’s he’s excellent at it right um but he’s not going to shoot threes so that that that alone makes the kinging and and Andre pairing tough because it’s not necessarily them like I think you can put kinging on the court with DeAndre Aiden and DeAndre Aiden can get 17 jab step 17 Footers and hit him like I I don’t think aon’s offense would be um would be that big of a problem with Clinging On the court I it’s everybody else it’s the slashers it’s it’s Denny Avia slashing it’s Shaden sharp slashing it’s it’s it’s ant and and Scoot depending on who’s on the roster but like it’s it is it’s it’s clogging the middle for all of the drivers and then you don’t have anything except for DeAndre and 17f Footers because you don’t have the space to get into the paint like that’s the value of of of the three-point Revolution is that you’re leveraging spacing to make layups like that’s what’s changed is how we leverage making layups that’s actually the revolution that’s happened over the last uh you know 10 years or so and with two bigs that don’t really shoot that seems hard can da still get his stuff yeah of course it’s just it it was already a slog on offense last year they’re one of the worst three-point shooting teams in the league um you know I think they were worst they were the worst three-point shooting team in the league unless you go by cleaning the glass and then they were TW they climbed all the way to 28th in the non-garbage time so like one of the worst three-point shooting teams in the league right um they’re just it’s it’s just they need a little more space to make it easier for their young guards who want to get to the rim and for Shaden sharp who wants to take a bunch of Pull-Up midies if the if the whole paint is clogged with two bigs it’s going to be tough I don’t think it’s only shooting though why I why I’m concerned I think the lack of dri Ling matters the lack of like neither neither kingan or da is like an off the dribble guy and particularly da uh this was back in March of this year I I had an episode on this very podcast and if you’re a new listener what’s up I’m so happy to have you uh if you’re a Denny fan who is um just converting to listen to lockdown Blazers I’m so excited to have yall let’s do it uh this is what we do here we dive deep but like back in March I had I had episode like what would I what skill would I add to to some players in the roster and the one I chose was DeAndre as a showand go skill and I and the person I I I gave an example of was was jiren Jackson Jr who I think jiren Jackson has a does a really good job of like hard pump fake show you that pump fake hard pump fake and then big stride Dribble To The Rim he doesn’t have a great handle but he’s really good at leveraging his ability to shoot to get to the rim da doesn’t do that Dia doesn’t do that if you look at the numbers when he dribbles like more than more than three times it’s a nightmare um he’s a no dribble guy he’s a play finisher he’s a no dribble guy what he does he does really well but he hasn’t showed much aptitude to expand his game and like this is year seven in the NBA it’s like you at some point you kind of just like do what you do and you got to figure out how how um it’s it’s on the team to say this is what he does how can we how can we improve it I think the lack of ball handling is a problem and I think DA’s not Al he’s also not much of a passer clinging can pass for sure um but like you know it’s is he the high level enough playmaker to unlock two big lineups I don’t know there are some teams that play Big when CH was asked about it he said you know I’m not going to do this against every team I’m not going to have freaking DeAndre and guarding Jason Tatum and and Kevin Kevin Durant like you know super crazy mobile fors yeah like like OKC having him guard like jayd duub right um when they when they go five outs it’s not going to work and and and bips won’t do that it’s going to be lineup specific teams you mentioned where Cleveland uh Denver and Memphis I don’t know Denver doesn’t do this I don’t understand where Denver has nickel yic for sure but they don’t play big they other big is Aaron Gordon I guess he doesn’t shoot but like I I think you could maybe get away with it but I wouldn’t I wouldn’t recommend it um because they play with they cut and space and cut and space um seems like it would be a nightmare but Cleveland is a good example they play with Evan Moy and and Jared Allen they kind of through injury this year clearly were better when they only had one of those dudes on the court and they could play with a one traditional Center and more space for Donovan Mitchell and dar’s Garland to attack particularly Mitchell um pace and space how do you leverage layups um Memphis like they’ve done it with um with Steven Adams and and uh and jiren Jackson Jr and part of the big like the ability the reason why it works is because Stephen Adams can pass and jiren Jackson Jr is very comfortable as a spot up shooting three-point you know big man and also Memphis has one of the worst halfcourt offenses in the league it doesn’t it works in a specific way on the other end on defense um and like the big one that that bips didn’t mention was Minnesota Minnesota is the is the name you’re thinking of when you’re thinking about this why I don’t think you can duplicate Minnesota is because Rudy goar is one of the best defensive players in the history of the NBA obviously he has had some well publicized I would say poorly covered but well publicized struggles in the playoffs and sometimes teams have been able to spread them out and and and take advantage of them um some of that I think was some scheme and Personnel stuff in Utah and this year like it’s like oh man Rudy goar couldn’t guard luuka donic in space okay um he was great in the playoffs Rudy goer was great in the playoffs um he he he he was very very very good uh I think he’s fine I don’t think you could duplicate that maybe kingan becomes that one day four-time Defensive Player of the Year okay I don’t maybe that’s a little rich but like maybe he becomes a very very impactful defensive player this is kind of what I’m saying he’s not going to be that in year one he’s not going to be that in year two eventually he could get there and the the reason it works for Minnesota is cuz cat’s unique skill set he is just mobile enough to kind of get away with it and the other Wings they have on defense like uh jadeen McDaniels and and ant really stay attached in drop coverage they fight so they never have to do you know get forced into late switches they they really really stay attached um they’re really when they’re locked in really good at that um which allows them not to kind of get caught they’ll switch a little and Rudy goar will show up show at the the level every so often for the most part they play drop they stay attached they’ve got the Personnel to do it um maybe eventually the Blazers have that maybe they do like with tumani and Denny maybe they’re maybe they’re getting there but they don’t have that now and kingan’s not going to be that and Cat and da could not be more different on offense in January of 2024 Carl Anthony towns took 97 three-pointers in 17 games 97 in 17 games in in January Donovan CL Deandre aen has taken 93s in 358 games 93s in six NBA Seasons across 358 games and Carl Anthony towns took 97 in January they’re just not the same and Carl Anthony towns has some has some off the dribble game when they go big with NZ Reed NZ Reed has great off the dribble game it’s like what makes him so special is because big can attack like that works here’s the thing those are examples that even Evan Moy has a little more off the dribble juice than than than than da and again like that Cleveland it maybe doesn’t work it works okay on defense maybe maybe it hasn’t worked and I think da is much more impactful as an offensive player than he as a defensive player um in terms of positive impact here’s an example though that that that didn’t get brought up in the press conference that I think the Blazers could actually try to emulate Chicago last season Chicago last season they played 402 possessions together with Nic lavich Andre Drummond on the court quietly they started they started experimenting with two big lineups and who did they do it against Minnesota and Cleveland other teams that go big and those were their most effective games they won both of those games I believe both them in overtime in the right in certain matchups this is um you know vich is a little different from da d vuch i over his last five seasons has taken about five threes a game 4.7 by my math over his last five seasons not a great shooter but a willing three-point shooter willing in volume more important than than accuracy sometimes and at earlier in his in his Chicago stint he was had been more accurate than he has been the last two seasons Drummond’s not that right like he’s he’s he’s like got a little bit of open court transition game to him but he’s just like big and he and he punishes you on offense on the offensive boards like he’s he’s said all-timer on on the glass all Legend in the Box Score that’s where you’d win to me and I think this is the key is that when you look at the Blazers when they’ve had pairings with da and The Bigs uh and and and two other bigs with doop and and and Rob Williams they’ve been awful on off on defense on defense awful the numbers awful but pretty good intriguingly good on offense and it’s like oh it might work so I think where you win with this pairing is on the glass you punish teams on the glass that’s how you win that’s how it would work um with vich and Drummond in the game the Bulls got an absurd 42.9% offensive rebound rate that means they grabed 43% of their misses it’s basically half the shots that went up 43% of their misses they were getting offensive rebounds on they punished teams on the glass they finished the the th those 42 possessions according to cleaning the glass with a minus 1.6 net rate in slightly negative but killed on offense 121 and we’re not good on defense 122 I think that’s the model for the Blazers a neutral pairing that in the right scenarios really mashes and otherwise it’s like how do they get away with this oh they don’t get it out of there stop experimenting but I think where you win is not as like an elite defensive team I think it’s on offense I think you win this by being like if if this is going to work and I’m again skeptical but if it’s going to work you’re going to win on the glass you’re going to win by having two seven-footers on the court being physical deandre’s a good rebounder um you you know he like I said he can still kind of do what he does and and and kingan crushes the glass the Blazers are a really aggressive offensive rebounding team to a fault probably but they’re really they’re a crash team and they’re a heavy crash team they crash the glass hard um sometimes with four Dudes and both dudes from the corners and nobody runs back on defense what um but like uh it’s there is I think I think there’s been a revolution over the last maybe five six seasons where teams are like oh yeah crashing the glass does have value you don’t have to ignore it like you did um maybe in like 2014 uh but like it’s there’s a world in which the this works much like the vich and Drummond thing in very specific scenarios against the right team and overall it’s probably a slight negative or it’s a neutral pairing but it can work in small like if the Blazers had a a two-man pairing like and the two- Center pairing that was like basically a neutral on Court that’d be a hugee win they’re not a very good basketball team um so it might not be exactly that but but I think that’s I I think that’s the one to think about when you’re thinking about this because that’s like two guys who aren’t super mobile they’re not going to dribble and and attack from the from the uh from the three-point line vous shot like under 33% from three he shot volume but not particularly accuracy and he’s he’s a good mid-range shooter much like much like da like I think that’s the that’s the one to Circle and model um they should try it without a they should try it they should try it there’s there’s literally no doubt in my mind that that they should experiment with this like pretty heavily I I they they need to look into it I’m skeptical it work it can work but what if I’m wrong I’ve been wrong about all types of things in my life I would love to be wrong about this and at least we’ll get to Point back to this and say hey remember in like July when Mike was talking about how this wasn’t going to work well that’s doofus um yeah I think they should do it I I I don’t know how many minutes like I don’t have a number but like 250 300 minutes of them together and like see if you can see what it looks like figure out what like 150 200 and some possessions of of of of Da and Clingan looks like and then when it clearly doesn’t work then you can abandon it no harm lost and you know no no love lost I mean it’s like no harm it’s just and if it works Wahoo all right uh this was a little bit longer of an episode but that’s because I wanted to talk about this a whole bunch tell your friends about the program come back and do it Tom tomorrow 5 days a week or every get Podcast and also on YouTube free on all platforms tell your friends about the program I appreciate you listening I’ll talk to you soon [Music]

A deep dive into rookie big man Donovan Clingan’s present and future with the Trail Blazers, his fit with Deandre Ayton and whether a Twin Towers at One Center Court lineup could work.

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