What’s the holdup on Sacramento Kings trade with Jazz or Pelicans?

What’s the holdup on Sacramento Kings trade with Jazz or Pelicans?

I have a trade idea yeah not a trade rumor not a trade report uh a writer throwing out an idea and talking about it um Kevin o Constantinople writes for the ringer took the Jake fiser reporting that the kings were in on Lorie Markin in and said here’s what I would do if I was the Kings in acquiring Lori Markin in Kevin o constantinople’s trade the Kings get Lori marinin and Center Walker Kessler in exchange for Keegan Murray Kevin herder and then it just says picks it’s not specified so let’s call it two first round picks let’s just we’ll we’ll we’ll say that for the sake of our discussion here because I don’t think that Kevin hder or the pi would be the hangup here it’s very obvious ly Keegan Murray yeah and I’ve had a change of heart on this because for a while I’ve I’ve never been like you need to put Keegan on the table you need to trade him that’s like that’s insane that’s just that’s objectively insane but I’ve been very like well if they think there’s a star level player and they are worried that Keegan’s ceiling is below that and they think that this helps them long term then I I mean then you kind of have to to do that even if but now I’m I’m I’m fullblown at the point where I’m just not moving Keegan not for any realistic deal not in a Brandon Ingram deal I’m not doing it in a Lori Markin deal um I I think the name we would always bring up is Jaylen brown right if somebody like Jaylen Brown becomes available Don Mitchell yeah then let’s put fine but in any of these trades that we’ve talked about whether it’s Kyle kosma Brandon Ingram or Lorie marinin I’ve just reached a point where Keegan is entirely off the table to me there’s no thought process to me that could come from the Kings front office that would make that make sense because the only way Lori marinin puts you in that position where you are Shire like definitely a playoff team and maybe contending in the west or Brandon Ingram doing the same the only way that works to me is if it also means Keegan Murray is in your starting lineup with that player Lori marinin and Brandon ingr make the most for the Kings alongside Keegan Murray and Malik Monk and Daren Fox and de sabonis it makes way less sense and you feel way less good about the Kings short and long term if it’s one of those guys no Keegan and dear and and domas and and Malle I agree 100% I’m now out I I don’t I’m I’m taking it entirely off the table yeah it has to be a superstar level or a like a legitimate long-term allar AR like possibility I would agree with you yeah and I mean like look Lori Markin and made an All-Star team Brandon Ingram made an All-Star team but they aren’t all stars right now and even though they’re 26 and 27 years old I still have a tough time and part of it they’re it’s complicated because it’s not just who you would be giving up there are strings attached everywhere with this right so so first and foremost what does that do with your relationship to dearon Fox and and I know at the end of the day a player like dearon Fox should is always going to be concerned about like who he is and what he is and his legacy but also like the people around him and how are you building the team and so there’s always possibility that you’re able to get someone that’s so good that that it makes it make sense but you also have to understand that there’s a very good relationship there that that Keegan Murray is part of the Fox Family at this point and that like moving Keegan Murray is not something that dearon fox would recommend at least not that I know unless it like again unless it’s such a no-brainer that you have to do it right so that’s number one number two the contractual issue it you can’t Overlook it like the fact that you cannot sign Lori Market into to an extension right now and the Utah Jazz cannot sign him to an extension and then trade him to you you can you can give him an extension but the extension he’s not signing yeah it’s very short of what he’s going to make on the open market it’s based off of his $18 million a year uh salary and it comes with a small raise and then only 5% raises over the two years that’s all you can give him he’s not taking that deal no chance there’s no way he’s going to go back into free agency at 29 feeling good about what just happened so that’s something that I would point out and the the fact is that Keegan Murray is gonna get a rookie scale extension next summer and that we don’t know what that dollar amount will be but guarantee you it’s going to be way less because financially per the NBA you can only make a certain amount for years of service in the league so a fifth year player can their maximum they can make is a little over 30 million bucks that’s two years from now he can make a little over 30 million bucks maybe it’s 32 by that point right sure Lori marinin is gonna make 4050 at that point oh at least he’s going to want that next summer you’re going to be paying him a four-year $200 million deal right that or fiveyear $20 and something million dollar deal that’s it’s written it’s it’s done it’s over that’s what you’re giving him right and so you’re going to take away your control of a young asset that you will have control over for the next six or seven years and trade that for onee potential of a player it’s not happening it doesn’t it doesn’t make a lot of sense and what you said like it it we can put all of these guys up on on a whiteboard like what the Kings have right there is no way I’m taking Lori marinen and no Keegan Murray over over Keegan Murray and KY kusma or ke Keegan Murray and Brandon Ingram if I gotta give up a little bit more to get a Brandon Ingram or I gotta give up a little bit more than I’m comfortable to give up for Kyle kosma because he’s under contract for three years you know wisewise I’m punting I don’t take whatever picks yeah that that doesn’t matter the the Keegan thing is now to me completely off the table just The more I’ve kind of thought about this and and like you talk about with the contract stuff it just from a basketball standpoint I don’t like it from a financial standpoint I definitely don’t like it so that just doesn’t and and the Walker Kessler aspect of this like okay fine like I that’s that’s cool as your as your backup center but it’s not it’s not worth giving up Keegan Murray and part of me part of me is because I I still believe that if there’s a leap Keegan’s going to have to make if the kings are going to maximize themselves it relies heavily on number 13 and taking a significant step toward being an All-Star caliber player and whether he makes an All-Star team or not I don’t know the Sacramento thing is weird but he has to be that caliber of player where we’re looking at it and going like he should be on the All-Star team he should and if he’s not he’s going to be on the top of everyone’s list of snubs the same way Dean Fox and Demus sabonis were this year so I think he has to get to that level of player and I think the the kings are are relying on that and I think there’s a lot of people who are still optimistic that he can get there this isn’t a situation bogdon bogdanovich is a situation that in his first year he was really good but then in year two he was a little better but you looked at it and you went he’s 26 yeah like he’s probably just kind of the player he’s going to be and sure enough he is sitting at his career averages are right about what he averages first two years Keegan Murray is not that is he a little bit older than a typical rookie yes but he’s not 25 he’s not 26 yeah and you bring a bogy bogdanovich had been a pro for like 10 years at that point he had been a pro since the time he was like 15 so he was refined in who he was just like Sasha venkov could have got a little bit better statistically than what he did the year before but trying to convert Sasha venkov into a much better defensive player over a summer when he’s going from his 28 to 29 year season yeah like what do you that that’s not going to happen no but there’s but by this point yeah you’re not developing your your skills in that way typically you’re G to make marginal improvements on on you know whether it’s your lateral quickness or maybe your free throw percentage or your three-point percentage but yeah you’re not you’re not taking a leap into an elite Defender overnight from age 28 to 29 no suck he can do it from age 21 to 22 yeah took a took a nice little jump so yeah I think there’s an offensive step or steps he needs to take still but it’s not at the point where I’m going man the Kings need to sell High well yeah but I would also point out that if you were to add a Brandon Ingram to to a Keegan Murray lineup it not only does that give Keegan more time to develop into that player but it also allows Keegan Murray not to have that type of ceiling that you you need him to have today and so today you need him to have a ceiling as a 20 a 20 and six guy who plays spectacular defense yeah who shoots 38 to 40% from three right right in a world where you have a Brandon Ingram all of a sudden Keegan Murray at 18 points and six rebounds or even seven rebounds he could probably be a better rebounder if he’s if he’s not if he doesn’t have to be the same type of offensive player that’s fine and that’s okay if that’s who he is and all of a sudden you’ve got two guys that you that are interchangeable and that can you know really support you in the right way but that’s like right now the expectations that you have to have for keeg and Murray way higher than they would even if you had a Kyma that’s it like the only way for the Kings today to take the The Leap Forward is for Keegan to take this really spectacular leap and become Chris Middleton that’s it right yep the bar comes down so far when you’re adding an All-Star caliber player to the Kings yes yes because now that that onus doesn’t fall on Keegan well and he can be your fourth or fifth best player today with the potential to be your third best player down the road but the immediate like I need you to be this person today is gone and that’s good that’s good I that’s where I think that if you’re the Kings I I believe they know that as well like these are smart basketball people yeah and like whatever we think about like their waiting game and all that stuff there’s there’s usually a reason why it happened you know like I don’t like some of the games and stuff like that um I don’t like hearing some of the the postmortem on the the uh Pascal yakum stuff that our friend Sam a Amic has put out from the athletic uh like that stuff is kind of wonky and and not real great but at the end of the day like the this is a a group of of basketball mins they have an entire analytics team that’s very good at what they do that have sought out really good players it’s not a like it wasn’t random that this team took a leap uh like the fact that they took an 18 game leap in one season is crazy but it it wasn’t by accident I mean they they did their homework on what the type of player you want to put next to damont aonis and dear and fox they made the moves they made the draft picks to make all of that happen now you have to keep you know growing and morphing your your team into a better team than it was the year before I do kind of wonder if sticking on the Keegan and Lori marinan thing for a second I do kind of wonder if Keegan Murray being off the table is is ultimately what what hangs up that deal well I would think sure yeah because the Jazz are in such a weird spot with this I don’t know what they want they have Lori marinin is probably not resigning there right well the the word is that he would like to resign but I’m not sure like there’s a big difference between wanting to resign right now and wanting to resign like him and Will Hardy have a very good relationship but again sure who knows if Will Hardy is the head coach of that team two years from now like so as a player you need to think of that he’s gonna go into next year’s free agency as one of the hottest ticket dudes out there th% like he’s gonna make a ton of money on it team they could probably compete yeah and that’s where I I don’t know what the Jazz are are doing as far as because his price was crazy high at last trade deadline uhuh and now it’s apparently crazy high again so they don’t apparently want to get rid of him well but the price has to come down because he’s on a one-year deal right but that’s what right but that’s what I’m saying it’s so they not want to get rid of him unless they’re it’s like the Brandon iuk thing with the 49ers yeah the 49ers had trade talks about Brandon iuk in the event that the commanders wanted to give them the second overall pick for auk and they would go okay fine if we if we’re gonna fleece you in the deal we’ll take it yeah so I think that’s what the Jazz are looking for like yeah if we can fleece somebody in this deal then we’ll take it we don’t want to get rid of the guy which is like okay so cool the Kings have made calls on him but if if if they’re going yeah Keegan Murray all of your first and uh also Devin Carter like ju punt yeah so and and it’s okay to punt it’s also okay if you’re in a negotiation with the team for someone like Brandon Ingram and you get to the point in the negotiations where it’s getting sticky and you’re like okay this is uncomfortable okay we’re going to shift gears and go talk to Utah for a few minutes about Lor marke in and we might get back to you and if we don’t like good luck with that because you know we can chase him next year in free agency or whatever we can try to clear cap space we can try to do a signning trade what we can revisit this down the road but for today like we might have to go shopping somewhere else and that’s part of why I think you know the NBA it it is a negotiation everything is a negotiation and sometimes you’re using another team against another team you’re using the idea of a Lori market and against the Pelicans and like okay well this is a pretty good deal the kings are giving us or it’s not you know like sure we’ve already heard they would they would very much so like to have a guy like Harrison Barnes on their team right and why wouldn’t they it’s their ethos yeah he’s 6 foot eight rangy switchable defensively can hit a three sh a three uh and here’s the other the thing that I I don’t want to say he’s good defend yeah he’s definitely switchable I don’t know if he’s a great defender he’s he’s solid enough like League average Defender um I I would say though with with the uh with Harrison the thing that really makes a lot of sense for for them with him is the fact that he doesn’t miss games and they’re a team that every single time you know Zion Williamson goes out for weeks and weeks they’re in trouble and Brandon Ingram is a guy who gets hurt and every single time he goes out you’re in trouble yep that that wouldn’t be the you would at least have some sort of identity without him you would at least have a player who can sure can man the position and will be healthy and who’s proven that over the last what four years he hasn’t missed a game like so there’s a lot of positives okay so I’m gonna assume for now that Keegan Murray is the sticking point in any Lori marketing deal I’m guessing the Jazz are asking for the moon yeah what do you think it would be with Brandon Ingram like if the Kings if the Kings right now have been in talks with with the Pelicans and there’s a deal on the table and the Kings have not pulled the trigger on that deal what do you think would be the hangup for them okay so this is always get it’s been the hang-up since the beginning with with uh the Pelicans like when we were looking at this potential deal early on like hey what would it take to get Brandon Ingram out right it always depended on a three team deal you need a third team if you’re the Kings because the one thing we did he is at the trade deadline that there was some conversations about potentially swapping Brandon Ingram for Jared Allen with the the Cavs right mhm and so you knew that they wanted a center upgrade you knew that they were going to lose valent chunis like they just did they need a center the Kings don’t have an extra Center to offer them so if you’re the Kings you need to find or or if you’re if you’re the Pelicans you need to find a third team that’s willing to play and whether that costs them you know again there’s varying degrees of centers there’s you know could you get an Isaiah Stewart out of the the Pistons who makes million bucks a year okay maybe they they all of a sudden have a bunch of extra power forwards and centers again right is that is that a player that might make sense there okay and could you get a Clint capella out of Atlanta um but can the Kings be part of a three team trade sure that puts a player in another spot and when you’re doing this you’re usually looking for a team that isn’t looking to get better today but who’s willing to take some of that draft Capital right and of those players and and again I think the Pelicans like sure they would love a first round pick from the Kings right but I also think the Pelicans would love a better Center option and if the first- round pick went to a different team that might work as well and yeah what what are the what are the Pelicans going to do with draft picks I think they’re in the same spot as the Kings yeah maybe where you’re punting on your picks Le for the for the near future and we talk about this all the time when when you’re going out and making trades MH as much as as it is the player that you’re chasing it’s the wants and needs of the team that you’re dealing with yeah like when you’re when you’re selling something right so I I don’t know people out there have ever done sales if you’re out there just pitching pitching pitching pitching what you have to offer you’re missing the boat sales is is very much about having a conversation letting somebody else tell you what it is that they need from you or what they need and then your job is to find a way to work your needs and their needs if you’re listening right your needs and their needs into one package and that’s not that hard to do if you’re listening if you’re making the right if you’re asking the right questions of the other team so that’s the question at this point the Pelicans who do you want who is the center that you want that’s out there and let me see if there’s a way for us to go get that Center into this three team deal right and and I don’t know if that’s possible maybe it is maybe the Kings and and Jazz have talked because Walker Kessler is a guy that the New Orleans Pelicans would like to get their hands on and could is there a possibility that you could move a Kevin hurler to one team and another guy to another team or whatever the deal is they get another draft pick Kesler goes somewhere else uh to the Pelicans and you get the guy that you want so that’s what this is about it’s about listening it’s about finding out what it is that the other team is trying to get and then trying to build a trade that makes sense for everybody not where you’re ripping somebody off right and like look there is a danger in drafting in trading for for Brandon Ingram not only is he on a short-term deal but he plays 65 games a year yeah there’s a danger in it just like there Lori marinan they can say all they want about how good Lori marinan is Lorie marinin plays 65 games a year at best and and so that’s a problem like if you’re a team like the Kings and you have aspirations of going deep into the playoffs and you got a guy who can’t even get through an 82 Game season and you’re now banking on him to maybe get through another 15 games after that sure that’s not always great so so all of these things have risks and that’s why like I understand the cautious approach but I also you don’t want to be teren long I’ll just like yeah well that’s right and that’s I guess where again earlier like we opened the show talking about patience is and we’ve you and I discussed this a lot yesterday because the deal didn’t happen on July 1 doesn’t mean there’s no deal to be had oh yeah same thing on July two same thing on July 3 but if the waiting around is because they’re trying to find a center and they’re trying to make this a three- team deal okay fine but if they’re waiting around is because they are going H there’s some risk here h i I don’t want to give up two first I only want to give up one right if if if it’s that then what are we doing here if you’re trying to eliminate any risk from these deals I know you want to minimize it for sure but if it’s oh two first and hey he might not play 67 games well okay if you’re waiting for the perfect player then you’re never going to make a deal the perfect player doesn’t become available because a team that has a perfect player doesn’t ever let go of them there is not going to be a time where Victor Wim Bama will play for the Sacramento Kings no no that’s it NOP there’s not and I don’t know if he’ll play his entire career in San Antonio but there ain’t going to be a time where he plays in Sacramento no unless he completely falls apart and you get like the Ralph Samson 2.0 deal from like 1986 sure sure and you’re taking on a guy who’s got no knees left and you hope that he just his brand name will sell something are you rep are you reporting this yeah Victor wanyama is not gonna play for the Kings yeah that’s it but I mean like look perfect players they they don’t exist right they get Max contracts from their teams or they tell their team hey I want out and I would like to go to this place yeah they they or they take their talents to South Beach yes that’s it that’s it so so look like again and the other aspect to this is I know so many people are upset about the free agency stuff the Kings don’t get free agents they don’t and when they do trade they do get free agents well they never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever live up to their contract outside of Malik monk thank you and outside of Vlad shut up Malik and vad that’s it how many times do I have to see Marco banelli and George Kobe Bryant and like so many players come through Sacramento that just take the money and cannot play at once they they they forget how to play basketball once they get to Sacramento so ideally that is Shifting ideally there is a culture and a program being built that that moves that but that’s historically how it’s been and I think if you’re the Kings you have to ride on that wave until it’s proven otherwise well Kyle and even if it does change operate under that assumption I should say even if you’re operating under that assumption you you don’t have any Gap space anyways right so you’re not going to be a player there Paul Geor ain’t walking through that door nope sorry you don’t think Paul George take a minimum no to play for the Kings well we tried well if you would have drafted bronny this whole thing would be different did the kings make a mistake not drafting bronny James we’ll talk about it

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