Empire of the Suns live: Reacting to Phoenix Suns free agency moves
e e Suns fans you know what time it is in the PHX Empire of the Sun Suns Phenix Suns Empire of the Suns emps hello there and welcome to the Empire of the Suns podcast my name is Kellen olon he’s joined by Kevin Zimmer man what’s up dude he’s joined you’re joined I’m joined I went second person that’s not third person or first person is that second person is that what second person is I always know first and third person what is second person different person what about fourth person do we go that high it’s in your there are three new persons on the Phoenix Suns basketball team two new persons on the Phoenix Suns basketball team a couple returnees we’re going to talk about for agency the Suns did some stuff it was um mildly consequential to inconsequential depending on how you want to react to it which is what we are going to do right now uh there was no surprise big move as of now there was no trade out of nowhere that we didn’t see for now they did what we expected them to do which was grab a backup point guard grab a backup center I think that Center was a spot where at the end of last episode I was wondering maybe they won’t add a veteran makes sense they would add a veteran and where I will start Kevin is I see a clear shift in directive last year it was youngish players who were in these situations where they were in their mid to late 20s had come off of a career year quote unquote but they hadn’t done so yet on a winner and it was the Suns presenting idat Nai K bat Di by trade Jordan Goodwin uh some of these guys the opportunity to show themselves on a winner Drew Eubanks and then if they did so they were going to be in for a big payday there was kind of a strategy there in mind it did not go well this time I think it was a lot more intentional that we’re just going to get Mason plumbley 10 plus year vet we’re going to get Monte Morris who’s been around a long time and we’re just going to get two proven Commodities where maybe they’re not the players they once were at this stage of their careers but they’re still going to be effective for what we need out of them which ultimately is not that much yeah I think the word for me is reliability can you rely on this person to do what’s asked of them to move the ball to the big three to burn minutes to be honest um because you know last year it was a matter of you couldn’t find the wing to just take some minutes you couldn’t find a backup center who you could trust without being frustrated and watching for more than five minutes or a couple possessions even like right as right as Drew Eubanks would come in he might have two mistakes off the bat and you just can’t play even 15 minutes doing that it’s detrimental so I I think like when you look at the whole roster as like who do you rely upon who’s trustworthy I think they’re following kind of the like what the Clippers have done the past few years now obviously they had a lot of other issues with their big couple of stars and injuries and all that but around them like there’s a reason Nick patum stays in this league so long for one example exle there’s a reason even Mike Conley’s probably still pretty good there’s a reason that he’s underrated consistently um at his level because like just doing the right thing is so undervalued and not talked about enough and it might not be flashy neither of these guys are flashy um neither of these guys may end up playing more than 15 minutes I I think they both could a little bit a tick above in different instances but yeah it’s just about we have added two guys we can rely upon I’ll start with Monte Morris we’ll start with a point guard everyone that has been calling for a point guard you got a point guard you didn’t even get a point guard who’s not really a point guard Monte Morris is in fact a point guard the point guard that you got used to be one of the best backup point guards in the league five six years ago Monte Morris breaks through with the Denver Nuggets immediately establishes himself like I said as maybe the best backup point guard in basketball I think a lot of people were fans of that I think if you’ve heard us talk about the Denver Nuggets in the past before they dealt Monte Morris you and I were both very high on the skill set that he provided runs your stuff can hit open shots can put pressure on the rim but just more so as a smaller undersized point guard is an orchestrator a point guards point guard assist of turnover ratio out of the Wazoo him and Ty Jones have been the two guys that have run away with that category over the last five years I think his career assist to turnover ratio is somewhere in the low fives which is crazy he only had a believe seven turnovers All Season uh last year and 60 something assist his assist to turn turnover ratio is nearly nine I think takes care of the ball uh but then things got weird he got dealt by Detroit to Washington where he played with Bradley Beal so when you talk about this backup point guard and where I’ve been slotting him in in my theoretical minutes rotation distribution it’s been playing with Bradley Beal at the start of quarters and wouldn’t you know it that’s where Bradley Beal is going to be playing with Monte Morris and they I think it was brenon clean from Lockdown Suns had it down that that one year they had a offensive rating north of 120 together in the minutes that they played so offensively they were quite good together I think Monte basically played the brain of basketball there that we were used to then he gets dealt to Detroit and then he has a serious quad injury come down misses a couple of months comes back for I believe nine games it was under 10 games with Detroit shows enough to get traded to Minnesota Minnesota has this huge opening at backup point guard I’m sure it’s something that we brought up at the trade deadline pod then and we brought it up previewing the series as well he did not really solidify his role enough to be in the rotation for the playoffs consistently it was kind of like okay what’s going on there this seemed like the perfect guy for you guys who haven’t had a good backup point guard for a while now what’s going on um John krinski who covers the misso turn for the athletic and mostly just does uh League wide stuff for the athletic now tweeted that Morris was basically just trying to ramp himself up in the middle of the season and that he expects him to play much better this year uh that was the only reason why I didn’t have him in my my like Kyle lry campaign break off of like the rest of these point guards and why I had Monte Morris lumped in with those guys is because I just didn’t really know what happened in this last two years and how well he played in those other situations where is he already starting to decline is he still the player that he was is he just a little worse than that you do not need him to be the best backup point guard in basketball even one of the best you just need him to be solid reliable and the great thing is he takes care of the ball and he shoots it well I looked up his career catch and shoot numbers over the course of his career 41.5% from three that’s pretty darn good we mentioned the assist turnover ratio already and the one thing I did notice from Minnesota and watching those games back with Phoenix um in the playoff games like he was there uh pigeon on defense don’t get me wrong when he was out there occasionally but I thought he held up and at least like did the work defensively as a as as an undersized backup point guard so checks for me all the way around and most importantly I think is at a stage in his career right now where he’s not going to come in and if his minutes drop to eight one game I don’t think he’s going to be upset about it because you could have gotten really uh inspirational and Wishful with the type of point guard that you wanted to get but you needed to get a guy who was going to be okay with the role that he has and it seems like this is the perfect fit where he resets he reestablishes what he is in the league plays here for a year and then he starts to get paid a lot more money like he should after this year this might be crazy talk and I’m not trying to like completely overvalue him because I thought okay he’s he was with Kyle Lowry is my I think he should be a minimum guy but it’s possible he could get paid a little more especially cuz he’s you know 28 29 and is it crazy to ask the question if he could start at point guard because okay why H why uh Bradley Beal makes over $50 million a year one Bradley Beal is a top 50 player in the league at minimum when fully healthy and fully with himself two three I thought Bradley Beal over several different from or several different times of the year that I outlined on this podcast plenty played pretty well and showed an ability to play uh there but you and you can’t just Breeze by one like it the NBA works the way that it does he is not at the stage of his career yet where he should be considering coming off the bench nor should he come off the bench I wasn’t talking about him you’re talking about Grayson Allen yeah and going that small [Music] mhm because that’s an easier conversation to have Grayson Allen coming off the bench but I I I’m just bringing this up because I think there’s a lot of value in bumping one of those guys to the bench and I don’t think you can do it with Beal and the issue is how book defended last year be defended fine last year it was not the same for book my yeah I I think the big question there is defense and if Monte Morris can like even tread water there or take on like if dear and fox like you would have to defend him with Monte Morris and that’s my biggest thing but like offensively I think it would be helpful to move Grayson to the bench um but but I also see your point like and I think it makes sense for him to be the starter or the point guard second quarter start with Beal that kind of thing and that’s where him starting might not make sense now you could start him and just and I’m not saying play him 30 minutes even I’m saying no I get I get what you’re saying um but what I would need is I need Grayson to start too because we need to get threes up I need him Deon Booker and Bradley be able to combine for at least 23es a game if that sounds like an outlandish number it is something a couple of trios across the league have already done and you’re talking about three of the best Shooters in the world Grayson like if if um book can get to seven or eight if Beal can get to seven or eight that just requires Grayson to take the five or six that he did last year and I think he’ll take even more I think butd will make this a priority but if you formulate that number like I would say 22 I want 22 out of those three guys okay now you get Damen Lee Off the Bench who’s your shooter will talk about that in a bit you get four a game out of him now you’re at 26 before even getting to anyone else on the roster now you’re mid-30s now you’re there like that that’s how you get to that number so I need Grace n to be starting for that reason alone I know Monte would take a couple and he wouldn’t be shy about taking threes but I thought Grayson just was out of this world last year for what you needed out of him and again needing the three-point shooting with Eric Gordon gone losing that volume you need Grayson to take even more this year I think so I need him in there but I’m not like sliding it because of who Monte Morris is as as a player which speaks to the value of the signing they bring in Mason plumbley at Center 34 years old I I was watching some of the not highlights but just like his baskets last year and is not moving the way that he used to he moves like a 34 yearold in the way that you would expect and to be clear Mason plumbley was hyper athletic coming out of college and in the first seven eight years he still moves pretty well but it’s just the dynamite athleticism that you remember from his career earlier in the year uh in his time that’s just not who he is anymore uh you are basically getting a replicate of what a worse version of what Yousef nurkic does on the floor you are getting a very big body who is going to rebound screen roll make good passes here and there and move a little bit better defensively than you would expect uh but that’s all you’re getting so you’re not getting some missing Dynamic if you think that his passing is going to be this huge thing it’s very erratic and he is comfortable with the ball is the way that I put it now he sometimes is sometimes it’s too comfortable with the ball guess what Yousef nurkic is the same way I think it’s very interesting that not only do they have three playmaking bigs but they have a just a basically a replicate again I thought they could have gone this is why I never thought the Andre Drummond signing made sense to me because it’s basically the two same basketball players drumin not the playmaker that nerkish is but is still a guy who can pass uh but I um it’s not that I’m against the signing it makes sense but I just think it’s an interesting strategy to not look for that extra yeah different set because with igodo you get a little bit of a lob threat where he is a lob threat in some ways not explosive but a lob threat nonetheless and then defensive versatility uh with his ability to switch get out there a lot better um plumbley is not going to bring that but I think that they just valued again to your point was it stability Rel relability what you used whatever I was listening same thing same thing that’s what they’re valuing here over like a a new skill set right yeah I law Murray uh from the athletic was on I think it was ble am Mara for us uh maybe it was Burns and gambo I’m sorry if I’m forgetting it’s been a short long week but he was basically like this is the best passing three Summit Center that no other team has but that’s weird to me to your point because when Mike buholzer was introduced it was it was to the point guard he was asked about point guard and his answer was we need to be able to do different things and to me their Center rotation does not do different things um now obviously like relatively um but we’ve spent all the offseason talking about they either need a spacer at five or a guy who’s just gonna oh my gosh train running down the tracks heading to the rim we need to cover him and that’s going to open up Shooters they got none of those um again like the the floor spacing stuff with this team and this this roster how it’s coming together is a bit concerning now the Morris part like he’s again to your point 38 39% shooter over his career that’s good like there are a bunch of pretty good point guards still out on the market who are probably better point guards better Defenders you know Dennis Smith Juniors that type but only one plus shooter Off the Bench but there are no good Shooters and they got the it was him and Lowry were the shooters and maybe you could throw Reggie Jackson in there if he gets or whatever from Charlotte but Roy is a trustworthy shooter but is he someone that the defense is going to choose to leave open yes yes as we saw in the playoffs it was not good in those limited minutes and he was getting extended run with Grayson hurt in that Series this past year so yeah um this team is going to have to figure out the shooting thing and um I guess that’s where I’ll just again mention Damen Lee’s return assuming he’s pretty healthy and stuff after this past year off like he got the full year he’ll be good super important to this team okay roster wise uh this team has 14 slots filled assuming Osa uodo is indeed coming in on a standard contract which when you’re selected that high in the second round maybe some second rounder selected later go on a two-way uh I don’t think he will think he’ll be back on a standard deal at least 14 slots there’s a lot of reporting out there that suggests that they want to get Joshua kogi back to your point I don’t think that makes much sense I think you need another shooter you already have enough athletes who are moving around the floor maybe they look at it like David Rody and N little aren’t even playing playable at this point and they’re not even thinking of them in their long-term picture of what the rotation could be so they’re not seeing it as redundant putting a kogi with those two guys as well I don’t know um whatever the case may be they have this open slot and for now you’ve got the starting five which I will pencil in right now is just the five from last year that’s Booker Beal Allan Durant nurkic you’ve got three guys off the bench who are absolutely going to play got Royce O’Neil Mason plumbley and Monte Morris I think there’s a non-zero chance ooso Garo is the back up center from the jump I’m going to say it again I think he has a lot of plug-and-play stuff and again I do I think the redundancy is interesting wouldn’t have done it um hey it’s not a get injured people get injured but he’s going to have a chance to play but basically you’ve got eight guys locked in right now last year it was four like we were sure Grace Allen was going to stick in the rotation probably right Drew Eubanks was the backup Center I guess so that was locked in cuz you had to yeah I guess josha kogi was pretty firmly in the rotation at that point maybe K stop was maybe he wasn’t um but it was a lot less concrete than it is right now so you’ve got eight guys and then you’ve got six guys for now fighting for those fighting for those last um two spots in the rotation the ninth and and the 10th spot got Nas little you got David Rody you got bbo you got OU Garo who am I forgetting Damen Lee’s back and then BB is back as well that’s all the guys they resigned BB we should mention that someone who would have earned a little bit of a pay gr not a not a payday but a pay raise on the market taken multi- years yeah probably would have gotten a two-year deal somewhere at least um but he comes back and it was smart for him and it was a no-brainer for the Suns because he started to look like he was um emerging into something but with your concerns on this team and my concerns with this team yes bbo shooting numbers were good but they weren’t within 10t of him all year and that is going to continue next year teams are going to just leave him open so spacing wise how does that work I think that Ryan dun is someone you want to get the on the court and I think that those two guys will be competing um for a time I mentioned bll twice dun was the other name that I okay forgot um checked out but yeah that that ninth and 10th guy is probably between those two yeah not as little I guess but Gerald’s reporting today suggesting they might consider cutting him if they see the right guy available that that I don’t think they’re going to cut him cuz he makes way too much money but the fact that it’s even being considered tells me that it’s on the outside looking in not only for his trade value but just his chances of playing next year maybe Bud loves him who knows I don’t know um but yeah you need you just need those eight guys so they they’re already in a good spot but if Dunn or bull can emerge and become a serious part of the rotation that would be good for them and then the other name we haven’t mentioned yet I think Damen Lee at this point just has to play cuz they need another shooter so unless they’re going to find another shooter with that final Spot Will we’ll see torian Prince was the wish list item for Suns fans he just got signed by the Bucks while we’re recording this on a minimum deal Joe Engles might have been another guy to consider he was on um a minimum deal a bigger Wing that can shoot those typically aren’t available for the minimum but they could have used they could use one right now um but we’ll see what they do over the next week or two summer league gon to be fun Kong Gillespie signed on a two-way a Villanova guard who does Villanova guard things oh we should probably tease what you’re doing next week but Jaylen Bridges boo buoy Ryan Dunn Oho igodo their best summer league team in a half decade 2019 cam Johnson didn’t even play because I remember being in my hotel room and getting the text that cam Johnson’s not playing it was like a nice heads up from someone that was just like hey I know you’re out here this sucks but Cam’s not playing come on me give me a break I will be in Las Vegas um not for summer league I will be there from Saturday to Wednesday Team USA is holding their mini camp in Las Vegas before going to the Paris Olympics they play Four exhibition games five I want to say uh there’s one here in Vegas it’s against Canada on Wednesday loaded and yeah that’s a really good team too no Zach EDI though I was excited to see Zach e he’s going to do summer league things I guess instead and then they go to like I think I want to say like Abu Dhabi or something for two games and then they go to Paris and play two more games and then it’s the Olympics uh but yeah going to be talking to Deon Booker and Kevin dur about Team USA I’ll be there for all the scrums and stuff so whenever we talk next end of the month start of August or whatever I’m sure we’ll kind of go over what we say I guess we’ll be back if they say some controversial things to me um or in that scrum I doubt that they will I think they’ll just be fun to talk to and it’s a bucket list thing for me man I’m very excited Team USA that’s the dream not going to Paris though that didn’t get past the accounting department here didn’t make it in the budget no okay didn’t qualify it’s okay I’ll be up it um I actually the schedule’s pretty nice it’s 9:00 a.m. noon games nothing crazy I was up at 4:00 a.m. last time watching I didn’t give a crap that’s fun could you do you think that the adjustment with the feea ball is harder than they make it out to be easier than they make it out to be or do you think that their concerns are Justified just hoop man it looks it looks like it’s a different ball because of the colors and it makes me like oh it’s clanking off the rim weird but it’s cuz it has different colors on it it yeah if I used the same type of keyboard for 16 straight years and then had to use a random new keyboard for three weeks I would get used to it after like two weeks but it would take me a while to get used to it that’s good analogy books adjustment last time was tough cuz he gets off the plane and they’re playing like the next day so so he hasn’t he’s been shooting with the NBA ball because our season was still going on yeah but I’m sure he’s already shooting with it now I think it was Tyrese halberton who I saw pictures of who was working out earlier this month um oh and you noticed he had the ball that he had the feeble ball already which is like that’s smart stuff smart stuff way to go Devon’s just been playing cornhole and Flagstaff as he should I’m just kidding he probably does other stuff Caitlin Clark got him to you know not many things probably getting him to come down from Flagstaff rightfully so but he was there to see uh the goat versus the as it was teased wish I could have gone but I was like fre agenc is going to be crazy it always is at the start and yeah we won’t get into that but clearly there was a a memo or something then that was like yo chill out because we waited an hour for Andre Dr don’t don’t drop everything in a mass of scheduled texts tweets this time around guys that’s the fascinating part was it to the reporters was it to the teams was it to the agents like who did they make take the lead or maybe the Drew Eubanks uh controversy this year scared people and that wor that penalty worked I don’t think it’s scared people but I think that the Suns and like the Knicks and teams that have been punished for this recently were like what do you mean everyone does this why are you picking on us so they had to make it fair in some kind of ways I get it but you know next year we know now that at 3:00 we don’t have to be waiting by our keyboard wondering uh we would go on NBA wide kind of coverage here and recap but there’s a lot left to get done it’s only July 3rd but most of the time we’ve seen a ton of stuff but the main thing holding everything up right now appears to be the next big deals uh trades or signings I think dear uh there was the deante Murray deal we’ll talk about on the next episode so that probably means brandan Ingram’s out we’re waiting to see Bruce Brown’s gonna get traded I would think is the Buddy heeled thing like still in the works with the Warriors right now yeah I haven’t seen any updates on that yeah the Warriors are a fun team we’ll talk about later they’ve done some weird stuff they like signed got signed and trade with Kyle Anderson they did a sign and trade with they’re still trying Klay Thompson’s a Dallas Maverick that’s a weird sense um what was the other one there was one more or Cam Johnson is the other name where we’re like it makes a lot of sense that a team should trade for him but we’ll see I would be scared of OKC doing that that’s what I was saying on the radio was like What if they just offer four first round picks for Lowry marinin or whatever and just go like we’re just going to go for it this year even more so hot take the Lakers have done nothing but all things aside about nepotism and such I do think it’s a nice story that a father gets to play with the son that’s super cool seeing James Jr on the back of the Jersey was cool everyone can stop making jokes also about how it looks like a b-rated movie a c-rated movie or whatever you call that Bist C list the bad movies where they make Chris PA the one that was funny was like this looks like a Party City um costume LeBron James costume outline that one was funny um but yeah the jokes are going to be there until they are for the rest of his life unfortunately that sucks so I say on the radio what sucks as if he’s good right away because some people are going to think he’s playing because of his dad it’s like no he’s playing cuz he’s good yeah oh well you know other fish to fry uh we’ll be back in a couple of weeks I think I don’t know I mean if something happens you you can expect us to be here right yeah probably maybe I wish I could pop my back like you man I’m still not very good at it there’s I’ll there’s something waiting back there to get done and it’s just not going to happen all right see you later everyone for
Empire of the Suns live: Reacting to Phoenix Suns free agency moves
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