Thunder Have Lightning Start to NBA Free Agency, Donovan Mitchell extends in Cleveland

Thunder Have Lightning Start to NBA Free Agency, Donovan Mitchell extends in Cleveland

hello and welcome to Game Theory I’m your host s Vini today Andrew schle is in the building first for a two-part episode the first part is GNA be Andrew talking about Isaiah hartenstein as well as Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins signing extensions does this make the Oklahom City Thunder the favorite to win the title and then Bryce Simon and I are gonna run through all of the moves that we missed yesterday when talking with LA Murray about Paul George and Klay Thompson but first let’s hit the [Music] music they do have a timeout decide not to use it way down than thanks what’s this going to be are you kidding me hello and welcome to game three podcast I’m your but if you watch the tape what you will see completely orchestrated this [Music] game Andrew sleck what is going on buddy ah a little bit of everything Sam it’s that time of year it is that time of year but I had to have you on because the Oklahoma City Thunder are not the biggest winner of the early free agency period but I would say they are in the top three or four to be sure along with the Orlando Magic the Philadelphia 76 Sixers couple other teams that have done a really really good job I think the Mavs are probably interested at least in what they’ve been able to accomplish so far with Naji Marshall and Klay Thompson but the thunder made their biggest foray into free agency ever by I think it’s a factor of six if I remember correctly uh their previous biggest free agency acquisition was Patrick Patterson back in the day for a 16 million deal this time they went just a little bit bigger Isaiah hartenstein has signed a three-year 87 million contract that deal is front-loaded it has a team option or a non-g guarantee I can’t remember what the structure is exactly uh off of that third season so they will be able to get off of that deal if they need to heading into Chad holgren and Jaylen Williams’s massive long extensions that will assuredly be forth coming next offse I’ll just ask this question from the jump Andrew what problems does Isaiah hartenstein solve for the Oklahoma City Thunder that they felt like they needed to fix heading into the off season yeah I think it it kind of starts with the backup position for them in general in that they had Jay will the other Jaylen Williams playing that spot and he’s a nice player I actually really like it him I think that he’s he has great energy he can really pass but he’s not a great Rim Defender and I think that whenever chat was off the court they just really struggled to protect the paint and so they they solved that immediately you get 48 minutes of good Center play I also think he adds depth to the team that they needed I think that they got into that Playoff round with Dallas and they just didn’t have enough guys like period like I just think they didn’t have I think they had like four guys that you felt like they could really count on and I think that number will increase just by the age of the team as well next year but just adding somebody else and then of course the rebounding I mean he they have struggled on the boards and part of that is the backup center position part of that was that they didn’t feel like they had a look that they could consistently go to they had double bigs they they played Jay will and Chad together only 2% of the available minutes dur in the regular season yeah and I think that that shows that there there’s some hesitance there to use that they did a little bit in the playoffs now with hartenstein he’s a real passer he’s a real ball mover he’s a guy that can get rebounds he’s a guy that sets screens he’s somebody that was amazing with guys like Jaylen Brunson and Josh Hart and if he’s helping run second units setting screens for guys like jdub and allowing him to get to the to the hoop you do like dhos with him you kind of let Isaiah occupy the middle of the floor as like this like middle mini Hub I mean there’s just a lot you can do with him and I think just being able to increase your talent level without giving up any assets is like that’s that can be the lifeblood and how like teams take a step up in the NBA without I mean they didn’t they haven’t sacrificed a first- round pick all all summer so far and they’ve been able to upgrade their roster so yeah I think th those are a few of the things that I think that he addresses yeah it’s really interesting to me you know this is a team that has now added five new players this offseason right between Alex kuso and Isaiah hartenstein in addition to their three draft picks uh Nicola topic Dylan Jones and AJ Mitchell and I’m glad you brought up the whole idea of them not having given up a first round pick yet this is a team that has a million first round picks they can do whatever they want League wide yeah and they’re finding ways on the margins to get better without actually giving up that asset value of pick Capital which is important for them moving forward because a they’re gonna get expensive like more than anything this team is going to be very expensive and we’re all aware of that b as we’re seeing within this new construction of the collective bargaining agreement where teams are avoiding the second apron like the plague it feels like yeah this team is hopefully going to be able to use those picks to be able to get you know lower cost talent in the building yeah course of their core which is really important for them moving forward the big thing that this deal does For Me Above All Is people will look at Isaiah hartstein he averages like what six points seven points a game whatever it is he was to me a top five defensive player in the league among centers last season yeah I thought he was outstanding you look at any impact metric he was just an elite elite elite defensive Center you added the rebounding issue they were I think the worst rebounding team in the league this year if they weren’t they were in the bottom two yeah they finished 27th I believe yeah 27th that was just in defensive rebounding rate though I think they were pretty bad on the offensive class as well yeah right yeah they definitely struggled they got better as the year went on but it’s clearly an issue yeah it was just a significant significant issue and what Isaiah hartstein does more than anything in my opinion is he allows them to be multiple now yeah they have a different look for any situation you can imagine and part of this is Caruso as well yep having Caruso and hartenstein they can go pretty small if they want to they can go uh you know and their small is six foot five across the board by the way in the back court but like Shay Alexander Jaylen Williams Alex Caruso with you know whoever they want at the four and Chad holgren at the five or they can go Chad and Isaiah which I would imagine they won’t do a crazy amount of necessarily but I would guess they’ll do it for maybe five minutes a game something like that uh on average and then you can play Shay Jaylen Alex cruso Lou Dort whoever you want to do you still have L Dort on this roster you still have case Wallace on this roster obviously they just have so much flexibility here in terms of the lineups that they can run out on top of that the thing that they were missing probably more than anything was a big body to throw at niik leic to throw at Carl Anthony towns Chet’s gonna be unbelievable I think Chet’s going to be you know seriously like the the level to which I think chat’s going to be unbelievable is like Hall of Fame quality uh I think his future is a incredibly incredibly High uh as we continue to watch him grow and mature within basketball but he’s going to struggle early on in his career dealing with these types of players who can just move him right in playoff settings who can hopefully get him in foul trouble and once that would happen they would really be in trouble with their five out structures having hartenstein there and being able to play him with Chad at times in bigger lineups in you know situations where you can go four out one in five out totally hartenstein his ability to run dribble handoffs his ability to really uh pass from the high post hit Cutters hit kickouts it’s a per it’s to me it’s a perfect fit it it it accomplishes everything you’re looking for from filling genuine needs that this team needed to fill from rebounding and like interior defense perspective as well as fitting the structure of the team it’s why like I never really bought for instance like the Zack Edy thing for them right uh Zack a lot of things and I think that Zack is going to be like one of the 10 most valuable players to come out of this draft in terms of like regular season value but Zack isn’t like a great distributor perimeter player High post passer I kind of got turned around on the Donovan kingan idea I think Clingan has some of that ability that hartenstein has that would have been like kind of interesting for them if they’d been able to move up if they had wanted to potentially his ability to really pass and playmake just kind of gives him that like five out look that is going to be really impressive for them moving forward yeah and I think when you when you when you take giddy out of the picture who yeah would take possessions you know and would take shots and you add in two guys that are very low usage but the thing about the thing about Caruso and hartenstein is that they accentuate what this roster does rather than with giddy it was always like okay how do we make this work how do we fit him in like he’s another ball handler he’s another driver he’s another he we got to get him his touches we got to figure out how this works it’s kind of how it felt all year and I think there was like a genuine curiosity about how to do that that existed throughout the entire season into into the playoffs and I think they really wanted it to work you don’t really have to worry about that with these two like these guys are pretty low maintenance players they’re guys that want to win they know how to play the right way you just kind of plug them in and I think they’re going to work really well and they’re not going to take shots away from guys because the thing about it is there there’s the Larry Marin and stuff and there’s people that think like the Thunder could have acquired some kind of like additional like bigger usage score for them and the thing with that was always that man you just kind of want to see what Shay jayd and Chad can do as a trio and the minute that you add a big name shot Creator into the mix well you’re taking something off the table for one of those guys and like ego comes into play and like all the things about the NBA that kind of eat up a roster you’re just like fast forwarding that immediately this actually allows things to slow down for those three allows them to kind of find themselves a little bit and gives them players that are going to take pressure off them defensively and that are going to help them offensively because like two things they needed to do better in the playoffs was pass and relocate and get the ball back and they just didn’t do a very good job of that and I think some of that was inexperience guys that didn’t really know what they were doing you had these younger guys that had never been in the playoffs too that are receiving the ball that didn’t quite know what to do with it either so now you had two guys with experience you get the experience of the playoffs for these guys and you just have a roster that makes more sense now like you look up and down the roster like there’s not really a like a super weak link defensively it’s probably Isaiah Joe who improved quite a bit last year you know there’s not somebody that you can like truly Target over and over again that I think they’re going to close with and so I think the fact that they improve defensively and then offensively this should just give them room to breathe you know and give these guys room to kind of become the players they’re supposed to be and I think like that that to me is kind of the secret sauce of both of these deals yeah I mean so this team had has a wing in Jaylen Williams that is rapidly improving yeah if you told me that he comes into next season in his Jaylen Brown level yeah I wouldn’t be stunned by that at least I don’t know that that will happen necessarily but his ascent and his work ethic is such that you can’t rule that out they have Shay right Shay is at the very least like on Jason Tatum’s level if not a little bit higher certainly in the last two regular seasons at the very least you have Chad holgren who again rapidly ascending looks like an unbelievable player moving forward for them and you look at how Boston won the title this year it goes back to that idea of being multiple in terms of lineup construction they can go you know four out around Al Horford who can certainly shoot as a fifth man they can go two bigs with Horford and porzingis if you want to they can certainly go smaller in in the front Court they have the rim protection at all times they have the elite level perimeter defense with by the way Jaylen Williams Alex kuso all defense guy certainly uh sh Alexander is like this incredible like center fielder who does an incredible job in help defense across the board and is good enough certainly on the ball Y and then you still have case Wallace who is g to be an extremely high level Defender as well there’s just so many different ways that they can solve this this problem right now they can solve any problem that defenses or offenses present to them with a number of different two-way players in addition to a number of different lineup constructions so I’ll just say this up front they’re my favorite to win the title right now Point Blank oh man they are yeah I I I I it’s either it’s either them or Boston I’ll say yeah I think them and Boston are about equal to me yeah yeah and you and you just bake in the Improvement like you talked about of these guys and and I just there’s part of you that like didn’t want things to end so B bitterly for the Thunder where they like lose on this final play where you could you have a chance to go to game seven and Shay like in the post game was like blaming himself you know and those are moments you know just as like people like we we learn through failure we learn through kind of stubbing our toe on things and like just that’s how we get better you know you don’t get better just by everything being awesome and so I really think that moment stung for them like in a in a real way and I think you already have like the work that this these guys have put in has been tremendous but I would not be shocked to see like that Trio come back and like be quite a bit better just from the experience and then just from knowing like getting a taste of it and knowing that we were that they were that close to get into a game seven and going back to OKC and then like you just don’t know what happens and so I I think it’s good for them to kind of taste their own blood in that way and for them to go into next season and to get better I I like their depth I think that at like we haven’t talked about the Isaiah Joe or Wiggins deals yet which I think are tremendous they get to keep those guys I do think that there is an appetite to give Cas Wallace more possessions as far as like creation and with the ball in his hands and so I think that with the absence of Josh giddy I think there are there are going to be times where they try to give him those developmental minutes yeah um and I think that that is another thing there’s a there’s a belief in Cas Wallace that he can be a lot more than he was more than just like a spot up guy more than I mean there were times where he was setting screens and you know rolling to the hoop and stuff like that but I do think that there’s more on ball opportunities for him that will exist next season and they want to see if he can can handle it yeah no I think that’s right uh I’m really really excited to watch this basketball team and the piece of that that you brought up that I was about to transition to is the Isaiah Joe and Aaron Wiggins extension numbers these are ridiculous numbers for these players like they get Isaiah Joe at four years 48 million they get Aaron Wiggins at five years is it five years 40 5447 47 five five for 47 yeah that’s so like here’s the reason that they can do that it’s because they’re essentially adding in Isaiah Joe’s case something like $8 million $9 million to his number this season and then Aaron Wiggins they’re adding essentially $6 million to his number this season so in terms of like effective money these guys are getting drastically more than what they would have had the team just decided to opt into their team option that they had on both of those players yep which in the long term gives both of those those guys more financial upside despite the fact that they’re making a little bit less over the life of the deal you have to remember that they’re making eight million more this year which means that for Isaiah Joe for instance you can add two million per season over the life of his four-year deal if he had signed you know if he had locked into this number and then sign like a four-year deal after it it’s like the equivalent of like a 456 deal basically Aaron Wiggins same deal it’s like a four uh you know what would that be 1.2 so you’d be adding uh 1.2 times six you know four or 553 deal or something like that which the the Wiggins number is the one that’s like completely like I’m surprised by I’m suris I’m honestly a little bit surprised yeah if I’m him like I I get that he probably wants to be in Oklahoma City because they took care of him developed him but like if I’m him I might think that I have like starter upside somewhere yeah like he he could have been this year’s Nai Marshall to me right where know he goes out on the market and gets real money but here’s the thing Oklahoma City just paid him like Naji Marshall yeah they just got n million deal yeah they got about the same deal so yeah yeah I thought Wiggins would get closer to a mid level and and probably maybe could have if he was out on the market and then I thought that Joe could get probably closer to like what L Dort got which is like 14 15ish um that’s kind of where I thought this was going with both those guys and some of it is I just think the culture of the team and that just like a desire to to stay together and to do this together I think like that really exists with this group and I think that both those guys willingness to kind of be team players in that way um bodess well for the team moving forward and just like these are just rotation guys like I think they’ve both proven that that these are both valuable rotation pieces that can play I mean Wiggins had an amazing game one against the Mavs and was like one of the big reasons why they won that game and then like we all know what Isaiah Joe does and like he’s an onoff Maniac for OKC and so it continues to give them like a different look when you add those guys in and now that you have Caruso and hartenstein I mean they just become like super quality depth pieces for you that for some teams would might be their like fourth and fifth best guys but and the reason and part of the reason why I think that some people will pick like you did the Thunder to be a championship favorite is because these guys are like your eighth guys now this is like your eighth and Ninth best player on your team and when those guys are and their quality very quality rotation pieces I mean that’s that’s how you get through an entire regular season without tiring everybody out like Denver did um you can spread the minutes out throughout the entire season they they actually did a really good job of that this past year and I think they can do an even better job this go around and so yeah and they’re both really good guys too like down to earth just good people and like good people to have around the locker room so you know good on them and their stories are just just fantastic you know just just knowing that Isaiah Joe was cut by the Sixers and got to the Thunder and now has this big NBA deal and then Wiggins the 55th pick in the draft and he wasn’t supposed to here this wasn’t supposed to happen and he and credit to him and credit and I give so much credit to mark dnal for his development because he knew exactly how to use Aaron Wiggins he knew exactly how to put him in position to be successful and it it helped Aaron a tremendous amount and I think that he’s he’s evolved and he’s gotten better and I think he’s somebody that can continue to get better too he’s he’s a very valuable piece do you know what ranking Jay dub is gonna have next season in terms of salary on the Oklahoma City Thunder oh my gosh I it it’s it’s probably embarrassingly low I don’t know off the top of my head though he’s going to be making the 11th most money oh my gosh yeah he he tweeted at both those guys he was like now I know who’s going to buy my dinner on the road so like he’s still I mean look that dude’s going to get maxed out the second that he hits his extension number next summer it’s the easiest decision in the world but yeah I mean him at 4775 million is gonna be less than niika toic at 4.9 million next year uh this is the way the rookie scale moves up a little bit every single season both by the way if I remember correctly 12th overall picks right yeah both 12 or was jayb 13 I can’t he was 12 yeah yeah so you know just continually every year continue to move up and move up and move up yeah look this is a home run across the board this is a home run off season for the Oklahoma City Thunder they’ve accomplished every single task already within the first two days of free agency that they were looking to do uh yeah this to me is along with the Boston Celtics the clear title favorite especially in an West Conference where a few of the teams like Denver is certainly taking a step back without kavus cobwell Pope yep uh Dallas will see like it’s just a different team to me now uh you know replacing the high-end defensive energy of a Derek Jones and you know the athleticism of a Josh green with the elite shooting of Klay Thompson and you know the toughness that Naji Marshall brings uh you know Minnesota you know going to be integrating Rob Dillingham uh to an extent this summer but losing KY Anderson in all likelihood uh you know a team that probably isn’t going to take a massive leap unless Dillingham is this incredible player from the jump which I don’t know I love the fit I’ll say that I love the Dillingham fit to Minnesota so yeah like this is just a really really fun Eastern Conference or Western Conference that is going to be incredible to watch uh this season and the Oklahoma City Thunder I think are going to be at the Apex of that Western Conference so uh Andrew do you have any other takes you have to get off your chest about free agency before we transition over to Bryce uh I’m just kind of sad about clay to be honest yeah it just seems so strange just so strange to see him and I you hate to hear that like a legend feels disrespected at the end of know he’s not the first one this has happened many times throughout NBA history it doesn’t make it any less sad I’ll say that yeah like I was talking about this with LA Murray yesterday and I’m typically like pretty I don’t want to say like cold-hearted but like you know this is a business right like I’m pretty like this is a business and I get it this is the first one in a while where I’ve been like man you guys couldn’t do something I know you couldn’t just like sit down and meet but I know hey I mean this is where we’re at so schle thank you for coming on I appreciate you buddy thanks for having me Bryce what’s going on buddy what’s up Sam how are you doing I’m good you guys just got to see Andrew and I talking about the Oklahoma City Thunder for like 25 minutes which is something that I enjoy doing with Andrew about as much as uh any team that I can talk to any single person about in the league Andrew is just the best here’s where we’re going to go now though because we have a nice little mix of signings that have occurred over the course of the last 48 hours outside of the Paul George and Klay Thompson deals if you want to listen to us breakdown the Paul George and Klay Thompson deals La Murray and I talked about those deals yesterday go look it all of that you can watch law and I talk extensively about those two things particularly the Paul George deal where we’re going to start though is the Donovan Mitchell deal Donovan Mitchell has made his extension number official in Cleveland he is there for three more years at least he has added three years onto his deal at three years 150 it includes a player option for the 2027 2028 season and I’m really interested to see now how Cleveland builds around Donovan Mitchell because they can actually build around Donovan and then kind of decide hey is this the right is Jared Allen the right center is Darius Garland the Right Guard to have with him that’s where I’m like really really intrigued yeah I mean that’s what I like for Cleveland here is now they can pick a path and go with it we’ve talked a lot about the Cavs off season in terms of does Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland make sense if not then what do you do because if you don’t know that you have Donovan Mitchell signed up long term then that complicates things a little bit can you do you need the two bigs to insulate these two smaller guards well if now that they know they have Donovan Mitchell if that means they’re going to move off of Darius Garland then do you have to have both of the bigs or does it work better now that one of them’s gone maybe you run it back I don’t know maybe that’s what they will do I love that they were able to keep Donovan Mitchell in Cleveland I think he’s really really good so this makes a lot of sense to me and it just gives them a little bit of okay this is in place Donovan Mitchell’s in place I would assume Evan Mo’s in place now we can decide do we like this back court do we like this front Court do we try it one more year do we try it for 50 games and then make a decision but at least you have this domino in place to start building out the rest of your roster in the way that makes the most sense Sam I think you’re muted yeah this was a big one I was muted uh this is a big one just in order to confirm how you can go about building your roster with Donovan Mitchell now in place you don’t have to worry about trading him this Summer it gives you a longer like timeline here it extends out that amount of time that you have in order to figure out who your best players are and what the best core is for this guy it gives you another year potentially you know they have Evan Mobley who weirdly still hasn’t signed an extension yet I’m sure that they were just focused on the Donovan Mitchell extension first and we’ll probably find out like in the next day or so that Evan Mo’s goingon to get an extension but like you have time now to be able to figure out okay what if Jared Allen is just like the better fit with Donovan Mitchell than what Evan Mobley is because we know we can get more more on the trade market for Evan Moy than we can for Donovan Mitchell or for uh well honestly probably for Donan Mitchell but more so than that uh than Jared Allen is Darius Garland the right fit yeah you’ve won yourself one more year now to see if what these guys look like under Kenny Atkinson right maybe every Cavs fan dream that it was all JB bicker staff and that he was the reason why this team like couldn’t advance past a certain point maybe that proves to be right and Kenny Atkinson proves to be the right guy right right or maybe Evan Moy shows Improvement in terms of his perimeter game it gives you more time it gives Evan more time it gives the organization more time just to figure things out at the end of the day and that’s it like that that’s what they needed I’m kind of assuming that they run this back now because if you look around the league who needs a big now certainly the Pelicans if the Pelicans wanted to do something along the lines of one of the Wings you know Brandon Ingram it doesn’t seem like they’re interested in trading herb Jones or Trey Murphy but one of the wings for Jared Allen that that’s an interesting deal construction but they’re like they’re one of the few where I think that you can like make that case a big that that is that good right I mean I think there’s an argument the Knicks need a big now that hardstein Stein left but are they going to make a move for a big that’s that good I mean it would be great but what it’s going to take to move him or to acquire him the magic have like four they’re definitely not one um who else nobody else in the East that stands out that’s a contender I mean look like the Bulls could just always use yeah sure Talent right Brooklyn just signed Nick Claxton so they’re out um Charlotte has Mark Williams it seems like they’re pretty attached to Mark Williams uh you know look like Detroit it seems like is attached to Jaylen Duren uh I mean like it’s it’s hard to find the team there’s team team Memphis would be interesting but they have Brandon Clark to and they just took Edy in the top 10 you know there’s teams that need like the Lakers could the Lakers use depth sure but are they gonna make a move and could they even acquire Jared Allen could the Kings use the rim protection of Jar Al like obviously they could but it’s like the pel are the one team that really stands out to me that that would make the most sense yeah no that sounds right and then the other side of that is Darius Garland yeah and you know just again looking around the league there aren’t a ton of teams that need lead ball handlers right now you know Washington maybe but they just drafted bub Carrington like like they could easily they could easily take him right but what what are you getting in return the end of the day they traded Denny AIA like that would have been actually like a fairly interesting deal construction would have been like Darius Garland for Denny AIA like and other stuff like that that would have potentially worked Orlando it seems like is going to go a little bit more into like the Suggs calwell Pope thing uh maybe they could decide to do something but I don’t know like I I’m I’m not sold that they’re going to a lot of the teams it feels like that could have been in this market maybe you could sell me like again just from a talent perspective Detroit does it but I I don’t think that they will maybe Brooklyn like another team they’re the one I was gonna bring up Brooklyn and Washington but are those teams I love the idea of him there for those younger teams but are they in such a rebuild that I’m not saying Darius Garland’s on a bad contract but do they want to lock in that type of money right now with where they’re at maybe they would maybe it would be worth it for Brooklyn to bring this guy in and just let him cook and know you have him locked up long term and just get an early piece of the rebuild a couple years before right and I don’t think Darius Garing goes there and makes that team and completely takes you out of the Cooper flag Ace Bailey sweep Stakes right I don’t think it’s just gonna be that big of a difference so maybe Brooklyn could do that and they have some interesting pieces that I think would make sense to Cleveland no like cam Johnson Wing Dorian FY Smith a wing you know those guys would make sense you’d have to attach some other things there maybe a pick or something but yeah like that would be that’s the team that makes the most sense to me if I’m Washington I don’t want to supplant Bob Carrington right off the bats I mean maybe I would I would want to get him into my organization and see before I go trade for somebody that’s gonna be making what is it roughly $40 million on average for the next three four years so Brooklyn is the team that really stands out the most um but I’m not I’m just not sold that they decide to go down that road doesn’t make sense Sam right like him and keante is such a small back court that doesn’t work in Utah they just drafted call year like yeah yeah I’m not saying that like you can’t you know just you know have what about San Antonio like still San Antonio’s always been the team for me I’m kind of assuming that this Chris Paul move is basically just to give them another year to figure out what they have right like I think that they want to explore hey we’ve got this like really great floor General here now let’s figure out what it looks like with all these players when they’re in the right positions and like we have a guy out there that’s like organizing everything in a really substantial way on the court so I I don’t think they’re going to be interested in a Garland move at this juncture I will say this him and would be a lot of fun in a back court though cuz Castle could take all of those defensive matchups he with his passing and his connectivity and Garland has his gravity for the shoot I’m just saying I could get behind that that would be interesting to me I think I agree with you that they just let Chris Paul come be the point guard they need to figure things out maybe they don’t make this move now here’s the other do we think Cleveland should make this move we’ve talked about this a lot or would you run it back for at least 50 games and see until the allstar break I understand why they would be inclined to run it back in just hope that Evan Mobley improves sure uh if Evan does take a leap on offense it solves a lot of their issues it solves a lot of like if he can like become the perimeter know offensive player even that like Anthony Davis is like so not a not to say Anthony Davis is some incredible perimeter player but he’s just like a level above what Moy is right if he can become like even that guy let alone the post game that ad has and everything but just become more comfortable out on the perimeter I think it would solve a lot of the issues I ultimately think that in an Eastern conference with Boston with all of their wings in great backourt Defenders and New York with all of their great Wings in backourt Defenders that this roster with Garland and Mitchell is probably not well suited to to be able to match up well with those teams now I think there is a reasonable case to be made that those are like future facing problems and you don’t have to worry about those quite yet and you can give it another year and see what it looks like but I would probably rather do this early than later so I would probably make the move if I was honest with you uh if I could find a team that would give me like a great defensive wing and like a great bigger Wing I would probably rather do that but I understand their hesitancy to do it and I understand their desire to give this another shot under a different coach yeah that’s a good point there too right with Kenny Atkinson and maybe the offensive creativity that he’s able to figure out to make those two things work I I feel like my gut has always been go ahead and move garlands let Don just knowing that you know you’re let Donovan cook and try this out with Moy and Allen for another year or at least 50 games and see because that front court is so impressive defensively if you can make it work on the offensive end but I will always give these caveats it also depends on what the return is for Darius Garland you know is Darius Garland worth what I think he would be worth on the market especially at this point in the offseason right I would assume at this point you have a bunch of teams who feel really good about what they’ve done they feel like they’ve done their thing in free agency but maybe you have a team out there that’s desperate that’s going man we lost this guy or we missed out on that guy we need to really take a swing right here and they’d give you a king’s ransom for Darius Garland and and I want to be clear this is no shot I think Darius Garland is awesome I I really do I think he’s a really good basketball player I just don’t love the Garland Mitchell backc Court and I think they both would flourish even more in you know not on the same team I guess and so that’s where I’m at and that’s where you have to worry about like okay if there are diminishing returns there and that’s kind of why I’d move early as opposed to later honestly if there are diminishing returns there you might be artificially deflating Darius Garland’s value by continuing to have him on your roster because we get further and further away from the year where he made the All-Star Game yeah people forget how good he was and it’s harder for them to see that and remember that yeah yeah and look like you know YouTube user the comments brings up uh Spurs and Cleveland can make a deal deadline move Paul to a contender trade Garland to the Spurs and then you know that asset can go get Cleveland what it needs like in a weird three Team Construction there there are a lot of answers here sure right and that’s why I do like understand them giving this another half season at least before looking at the deadline um yeah like this this is interesting to me at least one thing I will note on the Mitchell extension so like Derrick Reynolds brings up in the comments uh Mitchell’s short extension is very much a force the Cavs to compete right away thing it’s more about so he’s not supermax eligible because he got traded which means that in three years which is when this extension he hits player option status in that fourth year so in three years Donovan Mitchell will then be eligible for the 35% max deal that for instance Jason Tatum just got right so it’s more about maximizing Donovan Mitchell’s long-term finances as opposed to like Hey we’re putting pressure on the organization now you know there’s three years here they have time uh to figure it all out and really it just depends on kind of where everything goes okay speaking of Boston let’s go to them real quick because they made a few moves okay Jason Tatum is now locked in five years super max deal right deal right player to do it on fantastic uh fantastic move on their part they had to lock in Jason they have Jaylen with them it’s G to get expensive we’ll figure that out they also did Derek white on a four-year $126 million extension that I believe is a player option on the end of that this is these are the moves you make whenever you win a title you lock in your core Derek white is always going to have an immense amount of trade value I think christops is like the one that I worry about in terms of trade value just because of the injuries especially given that he’s gonna miss six months here to start the year he’s also on the shortest deal though Sam I mean yes yeah he he’s he’s only locked up for two more years where the rest of these guys go to 28 29 and then Tatum 2930 goodness gracious 7 71 million that’s amazing in Drew holiday is now locked up on the extension he signed in the season in April if I remember correctly so they’re locked up like this is going to be a contender now moving forward at least until next year we’ll see if at some point the luxury tax becomes too onerous for Wick gck uh the other big news out of Boston was that Wick gck is considering you know taking on you know investors or at least you know looking at selling the majority stake of the team so at the very least this confirms that for the next two years I would say Boston is going to be a real Contender now we’ll see what happens after you know the christops deal comes up and you know what happens with ownership here everything like that but this does lock in like a nice two-year window post title to where they’re going to have some Runway to be able to go yeah I mean it makes sense we talked about this with the Nuggets kind of going the other way of not just locking in this core that was really good and paying the tax and figuring it out how to win on the margins and all of that stuff Boston said we’re going to lock in this starting five that is just amazing together I think two years is really the you know Al Horford is 38 going into the last year of his deal porzingis has two years left he’s gonna miss you know what a chunk of next season Drew holidays 34 this team is going two years from now something’s going to have to change because they’re going to start to age out I don’t I don’t know like the expense it’s going to be is going to be crazy along with whatever the I don’t even fully understand the ownerships I mean they’re for sale I understand that part but I was just listening to what the guy said in terms of wants to control the team for three years until something else I I don’t know but a couple years this is the East Conference looks like it’ll go through Boston assuming they stay healthy and then they locked up all you know Tillman’s back Kay’s back cornett’s back I’m interest to see what happens with Hower you add a first round pick it just they’re running it back and it’s you can’t blame him for it because they were pretty darn good last year the crazy thing is that like I think that they can still get like relatively close to the second apron I don’t think that they can actually get beneath the second apron at this point but they can get relatively close if they were to do something like move Payton Pritchard and Jaden spring and bring in like shyan and another Max guy there um or another minimum guy not a Max guy good God minimum guy like that would cut I think like if they signed Anton Watson to like a minimum deal right that would be I think like three and a half versus the I think it’s like 10.7 that Pritchard and Springer owed and that would have them at 13 guys and they’d be like right at the second apron or so like right there they have to bring in like one more player it it’s they’re like they they can maneuver around and like do some things it’s just like do you want the do you want the flexibility in season to be able to move Payton Pritchard and Jaden Springer you know to bring in somebody else kind of that’s what like that’s what’s interesting here is it worth doing in because they’re not going to be able to avoid the second apron next year I mean because the way I would assume I mean Jaylen Brown’s going up four Tatum’s going up 20 you know three between Tatum and Derek white are the big ones Tatum goes up 20 and Dereck white goes up eight so yeah they are and how Horford’s not on the book so you either have to replace him or something so right I I just how much is it worth it to duck under the SEC I wonder how much like how much does that save them in actual cash like ownership and paying the the tax is that significant getting under the second as a or would it just be the flexibil I just wonder this is one of those scenarios where ownerships G have to pay crazy amount eventually I just wonder if they could save a little bit now to be willing to pay a little bit more over those next two seasons yeah but then it becomes really hard to [Music] do to find like the Horford replacement you basically have to do it in the draft at that point as opposed to like being able to combine the well they can’t combine the Pritchard and Springer deals they’d have to send them out separately under new second apron rules but it becomes harder is the answer it becomes considerably considerably harder um the other move they made here is they sign Xavier Tillman to a minimum deal uh like a you know $2.3 million deal it looks like over the next two years 2.4 on average maybe um I’m intrigued at least I think Tillman’s a good role player I think he’s a great bench player I don’t think he’s anything resembling like an Al Horford long-term replacement necessarily but Xavier Tillman you know he’s a guy I’ve always been a fan of I had a first round grade on Tillman that year uh he got drafted by the Memphis Grizzlies I at like 25 or 26 or so I love the defense I love the energy I love how strong he is he’s a great post Defender moves his feet super well on uh the perimeter defensively in ball screen coverages he’s just like a perf like fourth big man third big man to be able to have and be able to come in okay and so I want to clarify something I was thinking that I don’t think ducking under the second aprim doesn’t save actual money other than the amount of like I I didn’t know if the if it was exponentially more being over once you’re over the luxury tax you’re over the luxury tax it doesn’t matter first apron second apron whatever it would the the luxury taxes um level there’s levels to it right so like you know you you’d have to duck all the way under the like luy tax basically which isn’t really something that they can do at this point in order to avoid the repeater tax and then additionally um there are levels to the tax as well where it’s it’s kind of like a tax rate kind of situation where if you’re zero to five million there’s a bracket if you’re six to 10 million over there’s a bra like it it goes up and up and up right um so they would like they would save a lot of money they would save I would I mean like can ballpark it like I would say they’d probably save 25 million by doing they’re still going to be in the repeater the repeater is just whether you’re over under the luxury and there’re there there’s no chance getting under the luxury so that’s correct that’s correct so in my opinion they’re probably just GNA stay over they’ll probably keep these guys and then like look at moving them maybe in season for another replacement and then go from there um yeah look Boston did what it’s supposed to do Boston did exactly what it’s supposed to do here they retained everybody they won the title and now they’re going to run it back and we’re going to see what it looks like okay we have to do it Bryce no we don’t yes we do I’m sorry I apologize for this I’m deeply sorry but we have to talk about the Detroit Pistons the Detroit Pistons side Kane cting ham to a 5-year $226 million deal I’m interested to see if this has you know all NBA language in it in some way I’m interested to see like if they you know decide to include that or if this is just a straight five 226 deal if it’s a 5226 I think it’s a great like it’s great to have avoided the uh Rose rule language it’s really really important for them to have avoided that but this is the deal you have to sign this is the deal that the Pistons have put themselves into and this is a deal that I Comm them for like I think they did a great job getting this done and you’re just betting on Kade Cunningham now yeah I mean I I don’t think they didn’t have a choice so my other thing with the you know the escalators and all that if Kade becomes what you need to become to hit those escalators I’m not that worried about it like if he ends up being that type of player then I’m fine so I just I think they’re in a situation where they have to kind of give Cade what he wants I don’t think you want to play around and make him happy or else you really start this thing all over anyway so I don’t think the Kade Cunningham deal is the one that you want to talk about here at the end of the day yeah so Tobias Harris signed a two-year $52 million deal I don’t want to be overly negative on this I think it’s like a pretty egregious overpay it’s two-year deal deal do we know if it has a team option or anything yet you would know this better than it it does not it’s a straight two-year deal okay so I’m not excited about that but it’s an egregious overpay it is like I think Tobias Harris is worth like 145 million a year something like that maybe like the mid level okay so that’s what I was gonna say if you take Detroit out of the NBA this offseason what do you think Tobias Harris gets cuz that’s I was like you know what maybe TW maybe he would get 20 and then the more I thought about it the more I was like I wonder if he actually just ends up having to take the non- tax mle do you think he gets more than that I don’t personally I don’t know who would have given him that yeah like who would have given him 20 million it’s yeah who would have given who would have given him 18 or 20 right because like that’s the middle ground here Orlando’s not doing that Oklahoma City wasn’t doing that no Utah’s not gonna like I don’t think he makes sense in Utah with who they have right now like in general so like Utah’s just like you know if if Utah was to move Lowry and maybe we’ll talk about that at the end a little bit there would be a case I think for for them having space but there’s no reason for Detroit to play against that market you know what I mean yeah I mean and so those are that’s it I think that could they were playing in in that way I mean obviously he wasn’t going back to Philly yeah like yeah Philly was done as soon as they signed Paul George so like that I don’t want to get over negative about this Tobias Harris is a fine player who will solve the shooting issue that I have been begging them to solve for a long time he is a genuine like three-point shooter who can hit somewhere between 38 and 41% from three most years uh last year he hit 35% but if you look back over the course of the previous what is this six years he was at 39% from three his issue I will say this he is not a volume thre point shooter yep like I think people have this idea that he is you know a guy that can you know just fire from three all the time he doesn’t really do that like he had a year in La where like yes he did do that and he had a year in Philly where he made took five threes a game but the last you know three years basically he’s been at four threes per game and this year he was at like 3.7 while playing for a coach and Nick nurse that would have loved for him to be chucking those threes up right so I think that there is like you do have to guard him out there but the release is a little bit slower and you can close out a little bit later on him but you do have to guard him out there that’s the important thing it’s a it’s a fit that is necessary and helps them he will start for them he will help facilitate growth in Kade Cunningham I don’t know who they were bidding against I think it’s an overpay Maybe by like a factor of two I I worry about the fit a little bit more maybe than some do just because he does like to get into that mid-range area and shoot a little bit more often than what I think the prevailing opinion is it’s a bad contract and I am surprised that the Pistons did it at the end of the day I am surprised the Pistons did it even if I understand why they did it so I’ve I’ve said I’m fine with it like I’m fine and like some Pistons fans got on me today we just recorded the Pistons pulse a few hours ago and people got mad at me like this is ridiculous so like why why don’t you like it more and I’m like so my I’ll start with the negatives he is older I’m a little bit nervous that he’s going to turn 32 in a couple weeks weeks and you know he’s not a younger player I don’t like defensively he’s definitely not a plus where’s Tobias defensively at this point in his career as a fourman is he a complete negative is he complete negative uh I mean not like a catastrophic Defender is he better than Buon though yes Boon was catastrophic to me um he’s like the level uh he’s like a level and a half above Buon he’s a negative Defender but he’s not like a disastrous Defender and so it’s not like true three and d and the contract was was more than what I would have guessed incl honestly I don’t care that it’s 26 million if it would have had a team option on year two now here’s the thing maybe they get into next year and and here’s how this could play out really nicely so I’ll play the positive things you brought up the numbers I will say over the last Five Seasons Tobias Harris has been very consistent it’s essentially 17 and a half six and a half three assists under a Ste like one and a half stocks one and a half turnovers plays over 30 minutes plays 70 games a year 50 37 38 shoots good from the free throw line all of that stuff like that’s that’s who he’s been hopefully he’ll be that for two more years I could see this working out nicely if Detroit gets to a situation where hey we want to go trade for player X and there’s $26 million to put in that trade along with a couple young assets if that’s what they get to like they have that contract on the books I’ve said that before with contracts I was trying to justify and it never turned out that way so like I’m kind of scared to justify it in that way anymore if there was a team option on this I almost wouldn’t even care because oh no if there was a team option I would say this is totally fine because what else were they going to do to 26 million this year right they still have 25 that we don’t know what they’re going to do with the opportunity cost is a good question right yeah because to me and I’m sure tra based off of everything trj and Langton has said in his comments in you know public facing things and like from what I’ve been told like privately he has definitely gone out and like tried to explore the market of taking on money in order to get assets like very very clearly you know what I mean yeah so I do want to be very clear that I think he is trying to do that and he still has time to do that he still has enough money to do that to be sure it’s all kind of cyclical for me though in terms of this stuff like you probably are paying Tobias Harris to pay for the development of the young players sure right like that’s your goal you’re trying to just help these kids out get them is a bad way to spend your money 100% idea of it but and this is something that trun perpetuated by drafting Ron Holland not totally his fault though and like honestly like 7% his fault uh like very very little his fault you need Shooters within the young core that you’re playing sure the reason that you end up having to go out and pay Tobias Harris as much as you do is because you haven’t accounted for fit within the young core of what you’ve already built you just keep drafting guys you’re just like oh yeah upside upside upside let’s just draft the upside guy right but you need to account for fit within how all of this works because fit is what ultimately Fosters the development of all of these young players together and instead now you’re forced to go out and pay Tobias Harris 2x but he’s worth right and on top of that like you’re blocking minutes from Ron Holland to SAR Thompson everything like that that’s why drafting young players that fit together is important because if they’re good enough to play together they can all like learn together and figure it out on the fly together and you know yeah you’re going to go through losses and everything but you’re eventually going to figure out you know what you have right now because they have to play Tobias Harris probably 30 minutes a night right you know that’s 30 minutes at the three and the four that you know assar Thompson is unavailable for assar Thompson is unavailable for Ron Holland is you know unavailable for you know whatever they’re going to do with Isaiah Stewart because I’m truly interested in that one uh is he just like the backup like swing big man right which is what he should be maybe it’s it’s what he should be no I agree with you like I I think that the price point they have him at now 15 million that’s like totally fine to be like the swing big man for this team right um do you look to move him maybe that’s what you do maybe you look to move Isaiah Stewart to honestly like a really fun move would be moving him to the Pelicans right that’s another like Center answer to me for New Orleans like is there a world where you could take back I mean like here here’s the fun one the the problem is that like I would love to take it back like bad salary from New Orleans but like CJ McCollum is still like pretty good at basketball right as soon as the dejonte trade happened I started thinking about CJ for Detroit just as this off ball bucket getter floor spacer play as a spot up guy defensively that would be so horrendous between you know what they would do this off season but offensively you would be able to figure out about some of these guys so yeah um maybe there is like an Isaiah Stewart CJ McCullum deal that would make sense for everybody right yeah I I don’t know I I my problem with this and obviously CJ is I think Isaiah Seward’s finally getting in the role that he should be in the NBA and I think that’s a valuable role there yeah the one thing I’ll say about Tobias is there are no true fours on this team well assar needs to be a four right now because he can’t shoot but I do think that this is a role and a archetype that the Detroit does not have so he fits there and I don’t know who else on the market would have made sense and I think in some ways as bad as this roster is somebody could say well you take that 26 million and go sign two guys or three guys they don’t they they have too many guys to play to have done that so I think putting it all into one guy makes sense I just again I’m fine I’m I’m fine with it it was fine it it it’s fine that that that’s where I’m at with it um we’ll see we’ll see if I hope he doesn’t age maybe I’m a little bit nervous about that after watching it happen with other guys and he does turn 32 in in just a couple weeks here the one thing I will say like he was awful in the playoffs but he’s been very consistent in the regular season and his three playoff runs before this he was really good stats-wise 18 points 50 38 shooting splits 37 minutes a night and the Detroit’s not going to sniff the playoffs while Tobias Harris is there so as long as he can do and replicate what he’s been doing in the regular season like if he does that and then they use him as a trade matching next year Sam this ends up being okay right if he averages 17 6 and a half on 49 37 88 and then he’s attached to a couple assets to match salary in in a move like we don’t look back at this and go oh man that was catastrophic what’s the catastrophic outcome what what’s the super negative outcome that that worries you here is it him aging is it like that yeah he he was really bad in the playoffs price no no I he was like unplayable by the end of his tenure in but was that because of age was it because of pressure in the play offs what you know like that’s my thing was you know what I mean um that’s what I’m trying to figure out is like what’s the obviously him to me it’s it’s it’s all opportunity cost right like it’s what else could you do with this and it’s hard to find an answer to that I’m not GNA dispute that um but to me like it all Cycles together in terms of you feeling like you need to do this in order to Foster the development of the young guys because you’re not building the young roster in the proper way you know what I mean like you’re just blocking minutes you’re you know continuing to you know build improperly kind of the the thing I’m trying to find now is like a deal where is there a way for them to take back bad salary involving like an Isaiah Stewart deal like could you could you move like Isaiah Stewart to the Clippers and take back like the PJ Tucker in Norm Powell money or something like that so so here’s my thing like Norm pal aren’t you starting to block ji though between Tim Hardway Jr and no 100% to me you just be like you’d be trying to move po immediately after that okay okay um is there like a three- team weirdo construction where Brook Lopez goes somewhere Isaiah Stewart goes [Music] to uh goes to where do I want to send him I want to send him to Milwaukee maybe you could send Brook Lopez to New Orleans or Houston send Isaiah Stewart to Milwaukee that way they would get like a more versatile defensive big which seemingly might be what Milwaukee wants not to say he’s better than Brooke he’s nowhere near as good as Brooke but like is there a way that you could and then you end up taking back like the pat conon money in some way where like you get like a first round pick from Milwaukee somehow in future assets yeah like you you get back future assets from Milwaukee like Milwaukee Detroit and a third team that wants Brooke is that something that could feasibly land yeah I I just go back to I just here’s the one thing I’ll say about that if Isaiah Stewart gets moved I want to know who the other big coming to the roster is because I need another fivan on this roster outside of Jaylen Duren and preferably one that either really protects the rim or really spaces the floor okay so what if we did what if we did Stephen Adams coming back what if we sent Brook Lopez to the Rockets which was the rumored thing last year you send Isaiah Stewart over to the bucks right the Bucks get to save a bit of money you know you send Pat conon to the Pistons you give them like a future f whatever future first that they trade I don’t I don’t even know if they can trade a future first to be honest with you it’s a crazy thing um well Houston’s the team that would need to give something up in this yeah maybe you get a first from maybe you get one of these firsts that Houston has right let’s like right in this one milwauke is giving up Lopez but getting Stewart and off conon so they’re saving money there maybe they give up like a second or something but then Houston get like Houston’s getting the best player in the deal like they’re the ones that should give up a pick right yeah so maybe it’s maybe it’s that like maybe that’s how you swing something like this is you know they the Pistons take back whatever bad money is on the books from these teams and I mean man that’s valuable for Milwaukee like if they could get off the Conan money like they would love they would love to do that I’m sure and they take back a little bit of extra money and then man that’ be weird to me if they couldn’t figure that out actually because Lopez to Stewart goes down as well what’s Lopez make because Stu’s only on fif on 15 yeah Lopez is 23 but if you do Conan and um if you do what it have to be Adams and then like the jock laale deal basically to the Pistons so like they could take on 15 million get a first round pick and have Stephen Adams to play that yeah and then you have Adams there so basically you’re taking on an extra 15 mil this is what it would look like in theory um here see if I can share this something along these lines where it’s you know Isaiah Stewart that first shouldn’t be going to the Bucks never mind it should be uh Isaiah Stewart going to the Bucks Brook Lopez to the rockets and then Stephen Adams Pat htan jock Londale on a first to the Pistons I’m not like I wouldn’t do that like I I wouldn’t do that if I was the Rockets I’d just be happy with Isaiah Stewart frankly and or I would just be happy with alurn shenon as my big and I wouldn’t do that if the B if I was the Bucks because I Brook Lopez yeah but it seems like the Bucks are interested in moving Brook Lopez and it seems like the rocks are interested in Brook Lopez yeah so you know if we’re just taking on money to get a first for the Pistons I think that’s an interesting way to do it right yeah I would wonder I be I’m interested to see how the Pistons value Stewart I think I’ve always valued what Stuart can be a little bit more than others but I’ve also valued him on a good team and it’s just like how long is it going to be before they’re a good team and I still he’s the only big on this roster who even conceivably spaces the floor in some capacity and that that would worry me not having anybody to do that yeah yeah no I I agree um I definitely don’t disagree this is what it would actually look like here so it’ be Stewart to the Bucks Brook Lopez to the rockets and then Adams conon lale first to the Pistons that that feels like a workable construction for everybody given the incentives that those organizations seemingly have even if I disagree with those incentives let’s say yeah sure that that’s working around the idea of what we think the Rockets may want what the Bucks may want and trying to get into those into those spaces sure yeah no okay uh look like with the Pistons we’ll just see right uh I I would love for this to work out I would love for debias Harris to be great because it would make Kade Cunningham like happier and would hopefully have him have space and I love watching Kade Cunningham operate in ball screens and figure things out the thing I will say is Tobias Harris is good out of the corners sure which is like something that will be useful for Jaylen durren Rim running and being able to find uh a little bit more space that way but yeah I uh I’m intrigued to see what they do let’s run through some of these smaller deals now before we get out of here uh let’s talk about Golden State we actually might have talk a little bit longer about Golden State I’m realizing uh DeAnthony Melton signs a one-year like 13.6 million deal I think that’s full mid-level price and then kie Anderson today signed a three-year $27 million deal on a signning trade uh that they’re fitting in basically to the Klay Thompson exception that they generated uh last year’s non- guaranteed in that Kyle Anderson move so basically replacing Klay Thompson with the Anthony Melton and Kyle Anderson that might be better than clay given what their needs were last year I I like DeAnthony Melton I think he’s a good player I think that was a good signing there bringing Kyle Anderson in I feel like Kyle Anderson uh you know is a guy that plays with the high field and all that like I think he’ll fit into to this roster I mean they’re not they’re not they’re not what the Warriors used to be right like we just we know that’s the situation with them to me the scary thing with the Warriors is you look through this roster I say this all the time about the Pistons Sam who’s the second leading scorer who’s the second leading score next year on this Warriors roster not Wiggins not green yeah honestly is it pods I I mean sure it’s Pro it’s it probably is Wiggins honestly it probably is wig it’s probably kaminga right like they have to turn kaminga loose yeah you might be right it might be what was what was it this how close was he this year uh yeah I mean kaminga was kaming yeah it’s kaminga kaminga averaged 16 points this year yeah look it just depends on like what version we get of Wiggins right like if if Wiggins is back and like is playing well like it would be Wiggins if it’s not it’s probably you’re probably right that it’s Kinga I forgot Kinga like averaged like 16 points a game I thought he was at like 13 or 12 yeah yeah it’s probably it’s probably Kinga I was surprised when I looked it I was surprised when I looked it up that it was as high as what it was I I assumed he was like a little bit lower even than what he ended up he was third for everybody clay was at 18 essentially kaminga 16 Wiggins 13 excuse me then pods I mean listen maybe they let kaminga go crazy and and then you can fill these other guy my point here was I think Milton and Anderson are nice pickups if they can play in the roles they should be in which is fourth options on the floor floor spacer for DeAnthony Melton go defend those type of things and that’s only gonna happen if kaminga is continues to take another step and like you said Andrew Wiggins gets back to what he could potentially be then these things are interesting if that’s not the case then you’re asking these two guys to do way more than what you signed them up for but I liked Anthony Melton I like Kyle Anderson long long way of getting to that I do like those they can make a lot of sense this really hinges on the young guys right Steph staying healthy Draymond getting you know playing basketball Wiggins getting back to it and then pods kaminga Trace Jackson Davis doing stuff off the bench maybe Moses Moody finally gets a chance here and then some of those things hit of those things aren’t going to hit but some of those things hit and then you have two veterans to come in and be really good role players so the Moody one is interesting to me because I think Moody is actually like quite a good fit now with this roster whereas before I felt like there was a lot of overlap with what Klay Thompson is with their back court being Steph pods Melton I think Moody is actually like quite a nice fit at the three I think you do actually need Moody spacing now I would imagine that he’d play like a pretty real amount yeah kaminga is like kind of the Swing piece here to me the upside is enormous like the scoring is very real uh when I watched him last year I was like I thought I guess the reason I thought he scored as you know right around like 12 or 13 per game was because I thought he only played like 22 minutes a game and I realized oh no he played like 26 A Night by the end of the season and you know was moved the scoring up commensurately right he you he really might average 20 a game next year like he is a sick athlete who can really go they need him to like that that’s they need him to go score I I hope they turn these guys loose I would be fascinated to see and Steph needs this from them you know I thought Steph was he looked a little bit worn down towards the end and like yeah he can still average 25 26 a game but I would love you’re losing 18 points a night from Klay thomp say what you want about Klay Thompson but you’re losing 30 minutes and 18 points a night you’re losing nine points a night from Chris Paul so you’re losing eight points from Dario sarich that there are points that need to be made up here and I think kaminga and Moody are the guys I love pods maybe he can take you know a little bit more but I think kaminga and Moody are the guys that have to take a lot and then Melton can come like I said I I like those two guys but they got to be in the right roles to really give the the correct value so here here’s the other thing that’s happening with the Warriors right now they they are seemingly trying to convince Utah at least to part with Lowry marinin y uh Roma versus asked uh what would the price be for marinin I would vure it would take one of kuminga or pods certainly moody in probably four firsts I would say CU he he’s he’s more expensive player than Bridges like he he is a well you know what though he only has the one year left too I I would venture he’s about the same price as what Mel Bridges is basically so if I’m Utah that’s actually a deal that gets me in the door if they’re willing to like sell everything outside of one of kuminga or pods and the reason for that is like I wouldn’t mind shorting this Golden State team long ter sure sure yeah just given where they are right like given that you know you have $80 million or whatever $70 million tied up in you’re probably 80 $80 million tied up in in aging Stephan Curry and Draymond Green you have Andrew wiggins’s money still on the books you’ve just got a lot of things there to do right like you have a lot of flexibility there to be able to bet against them I feel like like yeah I guess they could go out and sign free agents or Golden State you know people might want to play in the bay but I don’t know man that that that’s the one where if they moved him that makes sense to me and I get why Golden State would do it like just wanting to replace clay and you know get a younger version of it and you know he’s obviously way different than clay you more of a big but I I would understand it on both sides to some extent and I think that’s actually one deal with Utah where I’m like okay if I’m trying to short A team’s draft picks that could theoretically get in this like I don’t want to short Oklahoma cities no I could maybe if Oklahoma City’s willing to get in the mix I could maybe short the Clippers picks that’s kind of interesting to me yeah but yeah I uh I’m inrig you’d almost you almost take that’s a good that’s that’s an interesting option I’d almost take less Warriors picks in the future than Oklahoma City picks like it would it would take me less just because I feel like yeah with Steph at 36 Draymond to 34 you know Lowry makes a ton of sense there like I I love the idea of him there it’s just you know once it’s over for those two is he is he is him and who did you put in the deal what actual players did you put in the deal uh one of PODS or kuminga and Moody and Moody plus the pcks so it’s like is Lowry plus kaminga enough to usher in the next you know iteration of this Warriors team or is it you know to me this would almost be like we’re trying to do this one time you know for the next two years next three years yeah and then we’re going to have to trade off Lowry once Steph and Draymond are completely done and all yeah and the other thing you could try and short are hawks picks right like th those are the interesting options on the market to me you could try and short Hawks picks from San Antonio you could try to short Golden State picks from Golden State or you could try and short Clippers picks from Oklahoma City like th those are the ones that get me in the door at least if I’m Danny a and Justin zanic you know what I mean like th those are the ones where I’m like okay if I’m moving a guy that I think is like a top 25 player in the league I need those kind of picks basically the ones that have like a super high upside and they would have to be like unprotected essentially that that is those are the kind of deals that get me in the door I would say yep no that makes sense um yeah we’ll see we’ll see what Utah does with Lowry I I think that they should try and renegotiate and extend him this Summer if I’m them um you know you’re hoping that like I don’t think he makes them so good that they can’t tank this year so I would be trying to do that and I’d probably try and move like Clarkson or something like that even though the thing about Jordan Clarkson is he’s like an unbelievable guy to like having a locker room like literally everybody will tell you that so like you don’t want to move too many of those guys away yeah um okay the Clippers have made some moves to account for Paul George parting they have signed Nick pum to a two-year $10 million deal Derrick Jones do a threeyear $30 million deal they’ve sign they’re going to sign Chris Dunn seemingly according to Chris Haynes and then moamba on a one-year minimum deal look these are all you know the kind of deals that make sense for the Clippers they’re all tough they’re all defensively minded I’m sure tyou is going to love having like all of these players on the roster yeah no I mean it makes sense they you have kawhai on the roster you have James Harden on the roster you’re moving to a new Arena you had to try to continue to be as competitive as possible you know everybody would agree that you know they’ve taken a huge hit by losing Paul George for nothing and as you know the Thunder have gotten better the Mavericks you I guess have gotten better I mean I guess you could quab with that or whatever but they’ve gone the other direction they they can’t go tank like they can’t trade off these guys and so you bring in some quality players and Derrick Jones Jr Nick Batum Chris dun yeah it’s fine you know this is what they had to do as they had to Pivot away from Paul George not being there yeah uh these are just flexible versatile wings that are going to make them really hard to play against at least like that’s that’s one like real benefit to it yeah you could put out a lineup out there with some of these guys that can really really guard between dun Batum Jones man Kawai zubot like yeah that’s you could put out a lineup out there that that can really guard Jaylen Smith signs a three-year $27 million deal uh look I I’m not like the biggest Jaylen Smith fan but like undeniably he’s improved a lot over the course of his last couple couple of years I do worry that he’s like a little bit stiff to ever be a starter defensively but you know he’s improved as as a shooter in the way that I think people hoped that he would coming into the dra or yeah when he was in the draft and Phoenix crazily took him in the lottery uh and then let go of him after two years but like I’m you know this is a $9 million deal for a spacing Center which is what you desperately need if you’re gonna have Josh giddy on your roster and a team that has no backup center you know they let Andre Drummond walk for nothing he’s in Philadelphia now and you just look at this roster you have Vu you have Patrick Williams who’s you know not playing any minutes at the five he’s a four he’s a forward and then you have like your next biggest player is you know Josh giddy Julian you know like there’s there’s no bigs so this is a move I actually think is fine for the Bulls it makes sense he spaces the floor he gives you a backup big on$ n million like cool you know I’m fine with that yeah look it’s not like a home run or anything for me but it’s a deal that makes sense uh for them to chase a big that can be a third big and space the court so I’m in on that speaking of you know eight million n million deals for Bigs Orlando signed Goa bad again uh and then also resign Gary Harris to a two-year 144 million deal Bryce any thoughts here what is going on I’m confused is this a Windell Carter Jr trade I think that they just so they also resigned Mo Vagner to a two-year $22 million deal no I think it’s that goo was probably too good to let go for nothing right like why did he go back then was there no Market I’m listen me it’s more that like I would I would venture that no team was going to offer him eight which is is an early bird free agent like you know what Orlando was capable of offering him he was also on like a minimum cap hold there so he didn’t affect their cap space and doesn’t affect their cap space so they can offer him more money essentially than like for instance like Russell Thomas brings up the Knicks right they can just offer him more money than the Knicks do like the Knicks I think have five and they were able to offer him eight right so if you’re h and you haven’t made crazy money yet like he’s probably made 15 or so I would venture yeah 14.25 so far yeah like you want to max out your money in whatever you can and the Pelicans don’t have that they they’re in the same boat all they have is the taxpayer mle okay yeah I don’t know I just I didn’t think there was any way he’d end up back in Orlando and and listen I I that sounded wrong with Orlando I love Orlando keeping good players I I love the idea of them keeping good players and having this depth and all of that it just I guess I was surprised I didn’t think there was any way all of these bigs would come back to Orlando in terms of Mo googa and you know then you also have Wendell carer Jr already there on an insane contract they extended Jonathan Isaac as well I know he plays you know more at the four but um I guess I was just interested I thought baz would end up somewhere else where he would at least be this the second Center on a team so I was a little bit surprised I guess more than anything with how this played out yeah look if I’m I’m a little bit surprised that it’s like three years to be honest like more than anything uh yeah I mean like you could make a case that maybe him trying to take like a $6 million deal in New Orleans and just being like I can maybe be the starting center here maybe that like maximizes his potential value but it’s it’s hard to turn down 25 I would guess especially in uh Florida where you know the taxes are a little bit better uh for other guys so and I yeah I mean I guess for Orlando it’s it’s not a bad deal to have on your books it’s a tradable asset if you need it it you know so yeah I guess it makes more sense if you move wend Carter as well depth yeah I mean again this really came down to I just when he kind of felt out of the rotation I just assumed he would move on and get a chance somewhere else maybe that’s what I’m more surprised by then Orlando bringing him back it’s that somebody else didn’t value him or prioritize him in a way to get him out of Orlando uh so Jonathan Isaac has renegotiated and extended his deal for five years it looks like I’m guessing given that it’s been structured as a renegotiation extension according to wge that this will be a descending contract where they you know give him the most that they can this year and then have it like extend it out into the future and have that number go down by the percentage at 8% each year I’m also betting that there is injury protection in here I I don’t know this this is me totally speculating uh I am guessing in some respect that the magic will be covered for if his like career and up you know in a problematic place injury-wise look Jonathan Isaac if he’s healthy is worth like way more than this I think I know he averaged like seven points a game last year but when he’s healthy he’s one of the best defensive players in the league like Point Blank so is depending on the injury protection it’s kind of why I didn’t bring him up initially with the magic like it just really depends on the injury protection and like how covered they are in that respect because that’s just like something we don’t have information on yet uh I like the idea though of giving him the most money that they can for this year coming up before they have to pay Paulo and fron and Jaylen and then having that number descend if you want to keep him on your roster which it seems like they do yeah no he’s real interesting player defensive impact um yeah I would not be surprised like you said if there’s some injury things that are involved in that one yeah uh was really like pretty solid in the playoffs like played over 20 minutes a night and like they started him at center right like he’s just very versatile on the defensive end in a way that is very very helpful okay yeah he shot 37% on almost four attempts from three in the playoffs as well so I mean you add that aspect um you know in the regular season 38% much lower volume but that’s a real Valuable Player if he can space the floor and then provide the defensive impact that he’s capable of yeah and you’re just hoping that as he gets further and further away from those catastrophic injuries that he had that he keeps getting more athletic and stays healthy you know whether or not that occurs we’ll see but you know it’s a it’s an interesting bet to take given the structure of what the deal is going to be I’m assuming based off of the way it’s been reported y um D writes Milwaukee sure good guard depth you know defensive guard he was a guy that we talked about the deadline that I thought they should have targeted right um to go get him now is smart Aaron holiday two years 10 million I’m a little bit surprised that they did this just because you draft Reed Shepard I think Reed’s gonna be able to come in and play immediately but maybe they just wanted the backing Drew Eubanks 210 to Utah is like kind of baffling to me I think he’s very clearly a minimum Center uh and honestly like maybe not a center I would want but you know sure Utah uh I think that’s all the deals that we’ve got here Bryce I like the Delon right move I think that makes a lot of sense for them giving them that depth there who is is there a guy left that you’re interested to see I mean d rozan is the biggest name yep that there’s quite a few teams left with the non-t taxpayer mle one two three four five six not as many as I thought seven teams with the non-t taxpayer mle out there six or seven something like that depending on is there names out there that you really like that fit into that kind of sure so so the big names left here well look like LeBron whatever LeBron’s gonna do so let’s remove him from this conversation yeah uh Demar de rozan is a big name for sure I am fascinated because it seems like the Bulls are probably going to go in a different direction uh where does he slide in can he figure out a spot to slide in is it like a one-year deal right tus Jones is a name that I’m really interested in tracking Gary Trent is a name that like I don’t know where he ends up but he healed obviously like coming off of a really strong start to the season and then like a very poor end to the season like middle and end basically uh but still like one of the best Shooters in league history uh I like other name here I mean Caleb Martin’s a great name Isaac aoro is a great name uh fono I’m just assuming that gets done in Detroit at some point right I think that’s an order of operations thing his cap hold was so low they can afford to do all of these other things and then do his deal at the end after they’ve used cap space yeah but like you can still announce what that deal is once you have anyway like no that’s true a little bit weird to me um yeah Caleb Martin AG great name there sadique Bay like coming off the injury he’s a guy that I think like could be really interesting but we just don’t know enough about the injury and what that looks like uh the big one though miles Bridges and like I don’t want to get into like a whole miles Bridges thing here but you know where he ends up and how he ends up somewhere is interesting and do does Charlotte just retain him is going to be interesting so looking at the potential non-t taxpayer ml this is a tweet from ke Smith I believe it was this morning or maybe this afternoon so this may have changed a little bit but teams that are like competitive teams you have Cleveland you have Houston you have Indiana potentially the Lakers depending on the LeBron stuff and Memphis so those are the teams right now that have that 12.8 million non-t taxpayer mle how does Memphis have that interesting okay I’m sure Keith’s right I’m I’m not I’m not questioning Keith Keith is very good at this and I will say he followed up that tweet with a clarification that like based on his projections or because you know you know how some of these mechanisms can hit a little bit different I was trying to find exactly how he but those are the teams that he had in that tweet so yeah Keith is actually yeah looking at memphis’s space there are ways for them to get that for sure like look they could move Contra like here’s the other team that could like very easily move people into the Piston space right he said real quick he said please note this is very much my best estimate nothing is actually signed nor are most trades official yet but this should be pretty close to where each team is at for adding outside Talent yeah so like Memphis has 13 million in space against the tax and 14 no 12 players signed they also have Edy to come in and whatever they’re going to do with Canard as well that that’s the that’s the thing that like throws it is Canard um they will lose that if they bring back Canard which uh I think Jake Fischer said that they’re like kind of working on something potentially to bring back Canard shout out Jake uh you know I would think that that actually goes away basically so then there’s a lot of taxpayers OKC has the [Music] room um and then obviously like Orlando still has cap room this may have been before the moves today though that was this morning so that’s probably changed so scratch that Philly has a little bit of cap room Philly’s the other one yeah like what does Philly do 9.2 is his estimate sack has the partial non-t taxpayer mle he has it at 9.5 San antoni’s is kind of wonky because of how they want to operate Utah with a bunch of cap space Detroit with a bunch of cap space so yeah like Philly to me should be trying to get like chuma o Kiki uh you know I’m just trying to think of like bigger defensive bodies Heywood heith is the name I would Chase if I was them yeah I’d try and Chase Kesler Edwards I think uh the other thing that Philly can do is give KJ Martin like a big balloon payment and use him to go get a deal like like like they canay pay KJ Martin up to like 19 million or something wild and then like keep that deal for the trade deadline and then use that expiring deal to go get like another guy and have like a bunch of picks and everything to be able to do that um one other Monte Morris to the Suns thoughts on that at all yeah good backup point guard for them who can like keep them organized in bench units like they were missing that at times this year so having more more of that is interesting he’s just not a great defender at this point and I felt like it was a little bit difficult to have him on the court at times thoughts on the potential Russ to Denver talks I if Russ is going to work I’m intrigued by having a spacing big like yic around with him and donon Holmes like is a backup like spacing big with him I do worry about like kind of upsetting the apple cart a little bit there where like this is a team that has had such good chemistry and Synergy recently and you know you’re I don’t mean this negatively toward Russ’s like personality at all I just mean it in terms of like on the court Russ is a force cre yes uh Fair like he’s just a very very you know pushing the ball uptempo like he’s gonna have the ball in his hands that’s who he is uh so it’s it’s a little bit of a different player type than has worked for them I guess is what I would say yeah and lastly I’m sure you have thoughts on James wisman to the Pacers yeah um if he’s going to rehabilitate whatever you know is left of his talent I think that that’s the best possible place to do it he is so bad in ball screen coverages still that I don’t love it for Indiana because Indiana was also not particularly good in ball screen coverages this year uh especially when Turner was out so that would be my worry um but in [Music] general yeah like I’m happy for him I guess that he’s gonna get another shot and I’m happy that uh it’s such a perfect fit you know like catching lobs from tyres halberton and Andrew nard in that offense like that that’s the thing I think he can do so yeah I mean look we’re we’re yeah look at he’s probably a minimum guy like you know we’ll see where it goes yeah no I thought it was that was my thought with him as well like hey if there’s a place that’s going to work playing there in Indiana I don’t know that where the minutes come but maybe he come you know if Isaiah Jackson whatever maybe he fills into that role and he actually get he’s like pure depth big here yeah like there’s no like I would imagine they would play Obi toen at Center over him or like play uh certainly Isaiah Jackson over him for sure yeah like to me like pure depth big and we’ll see where it goes kind of thing I would imagine that it’s not uh not like a big investment or like a big sure role that they’re anticipating for him who are your favorite I mean I I know OKC is you know like who who Who’s off Seasons thus far we still have a lot there’s still a lot of stuff to go and so like that’s why I’m not gonna ask you like who’s the favorite in the west and stuff like that like I I don’t we still got some things to shake out outside of Oklahoma City you know those res signings the trit Caruso heart you know is it the Mavs the magic the Sixers obviously have to be in some capacity with Paul George is there another team it’s the Sixers in Oklahoma City so far to me um you know they’re the two teams that I think have lifted themselves in a big way right now the two teams Dallas then Dallas I think is going going to have to change its style of play like kind of in an intriguing way like you’re going to have to run more like sets kind of to get the most out of clay and that could be really good and then like defensively I just don’t know what Dallas is gonna do right because their starting lineup has to be Luca Kyrie clay like that that has to be what is in the back court and then PJ and Lively right so you’re bringing na Off the Bench probably I I think think that has a chance to be like a catastrophic defense like as a starting unit as your five that you’re going into games with in all likelihood but if you can kind of mix and match around it a little bit better um I I like their I like their flexibility still I just worry that having clay like implemented at all times into that group with Kyrie and Luca might be a real issue on defense um even if um even if like I think that the shooting is just going to create like so much gravity for those guys on offense like they may they might like really blow away teams on offense yeah I mean that’s that’s incredible offensively can they hold up defensively in those minutes be even more important for PJ Washington and then the rim protection from Lively and Gafford because like if if PJ has a good shooting season they might like set the record for offensive efficiency is kind of where I’m at especially if Lively like takes another like step forward and if Nai Off the Bench is able to replicate what he did spacing the floor and if Quinton Grimes is able to come back and replicate what he did his second year with the Knicks not as much what we saw last year they do have some interesting defensive pieces Off the Bench right with Dante exam potentially with Grimes Naji Marshall like you know I know there’s been Dennis Smith Jr com you know about rounding out this roster as another piece there at the guard position so maybe they could mix in some defensive pieces there Off the Bench but yeah maybe they can just blow people people out offensively with their starters and then start to mix in some better defense um or maybe Sean Sweeney would just be incredible as a defensive coach but it’s possible but uh Bryce my dog is looking up at me telling me hey it’s time it’s time for the podcast to end yep has the the looking her eyes is like okay like I’ve heard you talk now for two hours it’s time to go uh Bryce tell the people where they can find your work tell the people what’s going on yes oh my bad Motor City Hoops on Twitter I don’t know what that was uh Motor City Hoops on Twitter that’s where you can find my substack stuff other podcasts I go on the Pistons podcast if we just released one if you want to hear us talk about Tobias Harris Tim Hardway Jr and JB bicker staff we talked about it for over an hour if you’re interested in that and yeah just follow over there you can find all of that otherwise I’m here at the game theory podcast with s bini go to the athletic keep me employed over there we will be back uh I don’t know if we’ll be back tomorrow my guess is actually that we probably will not record tomorrow uh now that we’ve gone three days in a row podcasting about the free agency situation across the league we’re now caught up on every deal that has occurred unless something crazy happens like we will probably not go live tomorrow and then maybe the next day or the day after that and we’ll figure it out from there um but yeah go to the athletic you know go read all the draft coverage I did go read all of the great writing that uh the folks over there are doing about the signings in free agency and things like that and trades I might do a thing on like some of the younger guys that have moved teams like I really kind of want to write about Dyson Daniels is my thing right now uh he is awesome on defense and I really like that fit that they’re kind of going for so I might do that but we will we will see whether or not that gets done until next time though we’ll talk soon bye

The Oklahoma City Thunder added former Knicks center Isaiah Hartenstein and resigned key reserve Aaron Wiggins.

Then, we’ll talk Donovan Mitchell, Tobias Harris, Cade Cunningham, Derrick White, Jayson Tatum, De’Anthony Melton and more.

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Sam Vecenie, a Senior NBA Writer at The Athletic, talks all about basketball. From the NBA, to the NBA Draft, to college hoops and even some high school, Vecenie has you covered in this show.