End of era: Assessing DeMar DeRozan’s Bulls tenure and sign-and-trade return

End of era: Assessing DeMar DeRozan’s Bulls tenure and sign-and-trade return

[Music] hi everybody welcome into the Bulls Talk podcast brought to you by Toyota Let’s go places I am Kevin Anderson joined by my good friend Casey Johnson our Insider for Chicago Bulls at NBC Sports Chicago and nbcsports chicago.com this is a Sunday Morning Edition of the Bulls Talk podcast because on Saturday Demar D rozan got traded to the Sacramento Kings in a three- team the Bulls in return got two second round picks quis dwarte who is a uh Wing coming on in final year of a deal entering the final year of his rookie contract that is and they got a massive trade exception worth uh 17.6 million uh and some cash considerations as well Casey give us your reaction to the deal overall what it means for the Bulls well quickly about that trade exception I mean they’re like 4 million from the luxury tax line so I don’t see them using all of that uh you can anyway that’s a that’s a smaller separate Point uh you know look it’s it’s one of the most palatable options of bad options I mean to me if you look at it here’s the scenario I’ve got ranked ideal one would have been to trade him in February 2023 or February 2024 when we’ve all long been saying this core had a ceiling um this is the second best a sign in trade to me the Third best or second worst is let him walk for nothing and I will say this is where it’s good the worst option in my opinion would have been uh overpay him to to return now that deal that he signed in Sacramento is not overpay and it’s not a bad deal especially because the third year is not fully guaranteed and this is where I struggle with giving them too much credit or giving the Bulls too much credit because like you know I’ve talked about this in the podcast before and I I’ve said I reported this that they they were having inter discussions about extending them at a high annual salary um for a short-term deal and that was when they thought they’re going to have a Zack LaVine trade so this to me is they are leaning into this now and they are you know I that that we can separate and talk about in a second I think it’s good I think they’ve actually made some decent moves in terms of personnel they’ve gotten to lean into this new Direction but I don’t think this was their you know two months ago I don’t think this was their first choice I think Zack trade and bringing Demar back and and I I’ve said this I’ve written this I’ve reported this dear worked under the impression throughout all of last season he was coming back that that he this is this has turned since the end of the season and look franchises can change their mind uh this happens but um yeah um I I I don’t think it’s the best case scenario but it’s also not the worst case scenario how much of an impact do you think the lack of a trademark market for LaVine has had on this like is that the Catalyst because in my mind it’s significant but in your opinion is it well I’m not the only one who’s reported that the their number one offseason priority was finding a trade for LaVine and that hasn’t happened so they’ve moved on to other things and you know we podcasted right after the Caruso trade and none no one expected that to be the first Domino to fall so now you know now that they are dismantling this and moving forward with a new Direction this this move is fine it’s just just like the Caruso for giddy trade you can nitpick it you know bull should have got draft capital for Caruso don’t love getting a guy who starts a contract lock right away but Josh Kidd’s a good player so that’s fine and then you know this is good in the sense they didn’t take on long-term money so they keep their books clean as they kind of move into this new roster iteration DTE you take a flyer on them and then you let them go if you don’t like it or you you know have them have control of them in restricted free AG see I doubt they extend him between now and October um you know he had a very good rookie season with Indiana he hasn’t obviously found his footing since then so there’s there’s a flyer that kind of fits with your timeline um and you get some draft Capital back albeit you know second rounders but that’s you know assets is what it’s going to take to get off LaVine um which I know we’ll get into in a little bit so you know this trade is fine um but um I think ultimately you could have probably found a way to do this where you still kind of lean into this Direction with d rozan serving as the veteran Mentor floor raiser and kind of do a rebuild a retool on the Fly um and I know that’s one thing that they was internally discussed because at one point they were talking about you know bringing them back at a at a high annual number for a short-term deal I think anytime that you can get anything of value in return for an unrestricted free agent it’s a win 100% certainly you are I I completely agree with you in terms of your scenario rankings in terms of best case and worst case scenario they got two second round picks and and that’s not nothing it shouldn’t be discarded those like you said may be part of a deal that needs to incentivize another trade uh the trade exception I agree is something that’s unlikely to be used uh however trade exceptions are really good at the trade deadline if you need to help facilitate a third team in a deal and bring back money so that does add some flexibility there and that end D rozan walk me through what the Bulls are going to miss with him not on this roster well I mean you can first of all I’ll say it here but you can also go to NBC Sports chicago.com I actually just wrote a column of appreciation for him um and to me you know the on the court stuff is there for everyone want to see I think what you’re going to miss even more is the off the court behind the scenes stuff the quieter moments I mean it’s him driving down to University of Illinois to watch out assum get his college jersey retired it’s him inviting Dale and Terry and Patrick Williams out to Southern California for his 5 AM offseason workouts it’s him you know coming in with to the with the same personality every day that quiet kind of steady leadership that Billy Donovan always talked about this guy Drew praise from everyone on business operation side to basketball operation side just because of his steady consistent personality um you know he’s not perfect he had moments where he showed frustration I reported he had a high-profile incident with jaman Carter last season that he talked about could have torpedoed the season and the fact that it didn’t kind of brought them closer um so you know but it’s just um he he’s he’s just a he’s he’s a Hall of Fame player I mean and you know he’s got the second highest scoring average in a shorter amount of time career scoring average in a bull’s uniform to Michael Jordan um the fourth quarter heroics the high-profile game when he shots that’s all the on the court stuff he’s just a a go-to person for pretty much anyone in the organization because of his personality his and his his durability I mean he led the league in minutes played last year at age 34 so they’re going to miss a lot um and you know they’re clearly leaning into a new Direction in a youth movement and I think that’s good to to try something different after what’s you know not worked the last two and a half Seasons how would you evaluate dear’s tenure in Chicago spectacular I mean completely I the question you know right when the and and a quick shout out a quick aside um you know I’ve known uh dear’s agent for a long time I don’t usually shout out agents I’m not really Shou him out I’m just saying like you got to give that dude credit like second free agency in a row where it looks like everything’s dried up and boom there’s a nice deal out of nowhere uh I go back with Aaron Goodwin to the Jamal Crawford days uh so I mean but the reason I bring that up is because you asked me Val his tenure remember when he signed an August 2021 immediately all the headlines were negative oh terrible fit this isn’t gonna work uh worst off season move for the the entire league I remember that one bad fit with LaVine and uh you know best days behind and all he did was come in and ball out two All-Star games one all NBA clutch Player of the Year finals two years in a row um again durability fourth quarter heroics and you can say ultimately the fit with LaVine wasn’t great but that’s post Lonzo ball with Lonzo ball that fit was looking fantastic um so yeah I mean I’m gonna remember it I’ve covered obviously this team for a long time I’m going to remember it extremely fondly and then I wrote this in the column I do want to say this quickly as a as a quick aside like this may seem like a small thing to some people let me emphasize it should not be for those of you if you’re a fan and you’re listening like in this day and age of restricted media access DeMar rosen never once said no to me in three years and I’m talking morning shoot around pregame postgame hallway he he never once turned me down for an interview and it’s not even me it’s it’s everybody I mean like that’s just his approach to media that is so rare in this day and age for particularly of a player of his caliber and his stature um and I I don’t think that should go unnoticed that is that is impressive stuff um there’s an award that the professional basketball writers association gives out every year it’s called The Magic Johnson Award it’s awarded to the player who combines onc Court Excellence with cooperation with media and fans and he won it in 2018 when he was with the Raptors he was a finalist again this year I mean he he he should be a finalist every year there’s guys like him Damen Lillard um Steph Curry you know guys just get it and they’re old school guys and then that should be I think briefly recognized so thank you for listening uh let’s dive into quis dwarte a little bit and what the Bulls are getting in him he’s a 27y old 66 Wing uh can play shooting guard small forward he’s got a career 347 3point percentage uh which is not great it’s average he’s been kind of inconsistent uh from Beyond the three-point line in his three seasons again like KY said with the Pacers initially than with Sacramento last year uh he started a significant number of games for both the Pacers and Kings so he is used to getting significant minutes however last year his minutes dipped by quite a bit uh was just over 12 minutes a game with Sacramento on a pretty good team I think as most people know defensively he’s uh a plus two in terms of estimated defense plus minus which is slightly above average so they are getting an above average defender in dwarte offensively when he’s not hitting his threes he’s really not as effective uh do you expect him to be a back end of the rotation guy or is it just too early to kind of pinpoint how Billy might use him yeah I think it’s too early um you know my impression most my impressions of them from that rookie season because obviously he had such a strong season and the Bulls played him four times and I he just he looked like a rugged physical kind of driver solid Defender um he’s obviously struggled to find consistency since that strong rookie season I believe he averag 13 points a game that rookie season um not a great shooter but just looked like one of those guys who was tough and knew how to play the game um I’m fine with him because he’s just you know he’s older he was a three or four- year college player he was definitely an older rookie yeah he’s 27 now yeah and and only three years in the league but you know because he’s cheap and you can you don’t you can either let him go next season or set him off in another deal down the line or or you know control his uh status and restricted free agency so it’s a pretty cheap fer and you know maybe in changes scenery um he can fit right in you know he’s gonna it’s clear that they’re going younger and multi-positional and wings and um just throw them out there with those other guys and see what you got so um I I have no problem with that return um especially again you didn’t take on long-term salary or bad contracts and um you got two second round picks I don’t I believe they didn’t have a second round pick until 2029 2028 something sound right so uh and I haven’t seen the years on those yet but uh those second round picks you’ve seen it a lot this summer they are valuable to help move contracts and especially in this new CBA so I think this is a decent return for uh you know for for the situation that that presented itself I mean quite honestly if the Kings didn’t have those two second round picks to facilitate the trade the Bulls probably don’t do the deal so like the the second round picks do help to to get deals done uh dwarte by the way uh will make 5.8 million this season he is a restricted free agent after the 2024 25 season KC what’s the reaction around the League that you’re getting to this trade do the most um experts and people you’ve talked to they feel like the Bulls got the best they could out of an unrestricted free agent yeah I haven’t talked to a lot because I was just busy reporting the story and then writing um what I will say is the dominant impression I got is again dear finding a home out of nowhere I mean you know it’s like this is to me 2021 all over again and a quick shout out to my media Brethren Mark Spears uh who has called uh dear’s free agent destination in 2021 and 2024 he’s obviously very plugged into the D Roan Camp um but uh anyway uh yeah it’s mostly just that Demar got paid again and found a good home and we haven’t really talked about D rozan it’s not really our business because this is a bull Talk podcast but because we have an affinity for D rozan we haven’t really talked about his fit um in Sacramento I mean there are some people just like when he came to Chicago questioning you know that fit uh the mid-range spacing with sabonis working the elbow as much as he does I don’t know he’s clearly an up and this I like Harrison Barnes this is not a knock on Harrison Barnes this clear an upgrade on Harrison Barnes so um you know I I and between him and fox in the fourth quarter you’ve got some significant Firepower there so I I’ll be interested to see how Sacramento plays next season what I like about D rozan on the Kings is certainly they expect to be a play playoff SE playoff team again after um not making the playoffs last season they had that great run in 2022 23 season the year before uh I like his and this is something that Donovan has talked about significant number of times it’s his calming presence in late fourth quarter overtime games he is just this guy who on the floor helps everybody else take take a breath in the moment and he is whether or not he’s taking the last shot he just he seems to add this Dynamic of coolness and level-headedness to these intense clutch situations that happen all the times during the regular season of course in the playoffs he’s had uh you know a lot of playoff games under his belt as well and I think that the Kings as much as it is on the floor and the numbers they’re hoping to get from them stat-wise I get the feeling that they’re really hoping that he kind of adds to the culture of that locker room and his presence on the floor in those late games because for the Bulls that’s something they greatly benefited from him you it’s not just as you wrote about in your column it’s not just like the back-to-back game winners on New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day a couple G years ago it’s just what he brings to the table on the floor in the locker room and just just his presence about him for sure and um you know it’s a veteran Laden team team and they obviously have uh high hopes for improving uh you know after play in appearance last year so I’ll be I’ll be watching I know that uh what does this mean for the Bulls right now the they are they have a set roster they are under the luxury tax where they wanted to be if they make no other moves the youth movement is in full swing despite dwarte being 27 you know I think some people would like him to be a little younger in that respect but we don’t know if he’s going to be major part of the future of this franchise right now where the roster is today where is this Bulls team right now well I mean to me it’s the same it’s the same storyline because what’s left is trying to find a trade destination for Zack LaVine um and obviously we talked about that that possibility and we can explore a little bit more there not a lot of updates but you know on the last podcast because um of my phone inter conversation with Rich Paul his agent um but they’ve got 15 contracts one of those is not guaranteed and or isn’t doesn’t become fully guaranteed until January next season and and owner off the team um or bitum I can’t remember how we landed on pronunciation it is the offseason I think it’s bitum anyway got 15 um they’ve got a backup center you know they’re four million under the tax or so so this roster currently is done other than the LaVine trade what is interesting is before they had well I guess they still hav they can make an uneven trade because bidm can be waved right so I was going to bring up that they have 15 contracts now they only had 14 before but they really only have 14 they had 13 before so they can still make an uneven trade for Zach and you know I I know that there’s the perception and I think it’s reality that that V is available for the right trade and they that his name is out there but I I don’t see that happening um so this could be the roster um you know barring a Zach trade I’m going to hypothetically say that if Zach is on this roster the starting lineup next season will be a backcourt of Kobe and Zach with the small forward spot uh being giddy playing point forward and P will at the four and V at the five U that certainly could change and you know I know that Billy Donovan doesn’t like to commit to anything from a starting lineup wise but I don’t see Kobe taking a backseat like coming off the bench with his development and you trade for Giddy and you know that he needs the ball in his hands to really Thrive and succeed so he’s starting and I don’t see any way in hell Zack lavine’s coming off the bench in any situation for that you know so like to to what you raised last podcast Casey you know the best thing for this organization and maybe for Zach is to help facilitate a trade where we stand right now are you still give me a confidence level of Zach being traded between now in mid- October when the season starts um before I answer that you I agree with your starting lineup and that that leaves the bench uh Billy usually only to go nine deep but he has possibility of going 10 Deep I’m throwing bench names of Bellis Julian Phillips Jaylen Smith isumu um dalen Terry Chris Chris warte that’s 11 so he’s got and Tory Craig and Tory Craig Craig 12 he’s got 12 options so yeah can’t play them all so yeah I mean this is why like this team is still gonna be like I know the the East has gotten better on paper the top end for for sure I mean I love what Philly’s done in free agency I love what the Knicks have done um but you know I still think the Bulls are going to be in that you know playing range at 8 n 10 11 range I I really do so that’s that’s optimistic to hear you say that I’m a little surprised by that all right well we’ll say that for another podcast uh to your question about Zach speaking of guessing I mean here’s what I would say right now I don’t see a lot of Pathway to a deal but like the fact that both sides are as motivated as they are I just have to leave it at 5050 between now and October because everyone knows this would not be a good situation if Zach is back it just wouldn’t it would take the way the momentum what of what they’re trying to do it’s not where Zach would prefer to be um it would just be it would just be messy they’ve got plenty of people to play without Zach they’re not really they haven’t said this but you know I don’t really see them going hard for another playing spot I think they’d prefer to keep that um top 10 pick top 10 protected pick that’s headed to San Antonio so um I I would just leave it at 50-50 I know that’s lame but it’s just I don’t see a scenario right now you know the Warriors and Kings two teams have been reporting have dried up um and uh but just because it’s such a priority for both sides I just you have to leave open the possibility that something happens I I do know that someone I talk to is that is pretty tight with a powerful person with the bulls told me that it’s his impression or his understand his belief that Zach will be on the team next year so internally they’re preparing for his return but you know it’s pretty clear from my conversation with Rich Paul my conversations with people within the organization that it’s still a priority for both sides like a mutual understanding like let’s let’s try to find a home for Zack uh it’s interesting that your One Source believes that they are preparing because I I’ve kind of felt all along that what they’ve done this off season is preparing for the possibility or likelihood whatever word you want to use that Zach is on this roster um now to me do not discount the two second round picks they got in the sign and trade with Sacramento and do not discount Tory Craig is possibly being included in any Zach deal right now Craig being on the final year of his deal teams love expiring contracts he’s got a pretty low salary he also is a veteran who does add defense and three-point shooting I think if they really really were highly motivated to to move off of Zach they’re going to have to take salary in return I think they know that now I think the the best case scenario like you went through the best case scenarios for for dear and how they could have approached that in the off season the best case scenario for the Bulls this off season would have been for Zach number one trade him to a team with cap bace and take less salary in return given where the league is right now in regards to the uh window for actual signings to begin was yesterday July 6th teams are starting to fill up their actual cap space and not their hypothetical cap space which makes it now more difficult to do a trade I think they are prepared that they are going to have to take on salary in return for Zach trade which is which is fine given where they are right now with the D R roen moov to Sacramento but to me do not discount those two second round picks and Tory Craig is Poss possibly being in there I think it’s up to the Bulls to really decide what are they willing to accept in moving off of Zack LaVine do they feel like from a roster standpoint this team is better with Zack on it with the fit with the rest of the players and where this team sees themselves a year from now two years from now or do they feel like it’s better to make a deal get back some salary that maybe you don’t really love but could be expiring uh I think there are options there I think it’s really up to this front office to decide how much are they willing to accept back and what I mean by that is they’re likely going to lose the trade when it comes to a Zack LaVine deal right now and are they going to be okay with the backlash of that um because a lot of it’s about perception and maybe they say they don’t care what the fans think and what the organization thinks but when it comes to selling seats in the United Center they absolutely do care about that and they don’t want the general overall fan base to be upset with that Zach certainly is the longest tenured bull he is your now most popular Bull and by the argument of who’s the face of this franchise uh there’s now no argument now with d rozan off the team D rozan sold a lot of jerseys Zach is the face of this franchise now again now whether it’s for a week or a month or the rest of his contract we don’t know but this bottom line I think that there is flexibility to move off of Zack if they’re willing to uh include some other stuff in there I don’t see a first round pick being included in that I don’t think they’d be willing to do that but you never know Casey well and Chris SS from TNT and bleacher reported that the Bulls offered uh Zack in a first round pick to the Warriors um I never got that independently confirmed I again like you would personally be surprised unless that’s the Portland pick which is probably gonna be a second round pick and they just they’re not a position especially as as they go into this youth movement to be sacrificing more first round draft Capital so I agree with you about the the win the trade thing and here’s the thing I I think this is just my opinion but like I think I think management might underestimate fans uh Grace like I think fans would think any Zack cavine trade would be a win just because it would like completely signal a new Direction you know what I mean so um you know but yeah I don’t think you can f be focused on winning the trade I think you just need to make a trade and I know that that’s kind of the working assumption from both parties right now this is a full-on youth movement now that the Bulls are in and except for poor V yeah except for poor he’s not actually he’s not poor he’s been paid a lot of money but except for Vu I mean they’ve got some veterans on this team V Zack for now Tory Craig is is a definitely I think you would agree as a leadership within that locker room and on the floor so we’ll see what happens next as of right now the Bulls free agency is over though there is flexibility for them to do something else as KC said that 15th contract of ptim is uh not fully guaranteed so if they did a two for one deal with Zach which I think it would almost have to be a two for one in return unless it’s with another player with a high contract number that A team’s willing to move off of or wants to move off of Brooklyn I’m looking at you it’s probably going to be a two for one one deal where you got two take two players back and return so there is flexibility there uh KC just final thoughts on you know the free agency essentially over uh give me a grade of if if this is it for the Bulls give me a bulls free agency grade of what they’ve done over the past eight days um boy wasn’t prepared for the big picture stuff I know no I’ll just say like uh it’s not it’s not really for agency it’s more like offseason because L wasn’t see um I’ll give them uh b or b a b I mean like I I like that they’re they’re changing it up I mean they arturus sold Us in mid- April change was needed and he’s finally you know following through on that um so I think that I think there’s a solid potential for foundation for the next iteration of this roster um but you know you gotta put it all into the caveat that they they waited too long they waited too long so they didn’t get as much as they could have but now that they’ve made the decision I think they’ve started to make some some potentially solid moves so that’s why it’s a b because like they just they could have got more if they had done this earlier but if you put that aside and just judge what they’re doing I think they’ve Al you know again I I like Josh kidy I think he’s a very good player um I like jayon Smith as a reserve I think he’s solid I think he’s got room to grow I mean I don’t know much about balis but I mean you know one point he was top five pick in the draft so he’s got a lot of potential all these guys have to hit and I just like that they’re you know leaning into Kobe and IO and and those guys that have that have earned the P the runway to try more I’m curious to see what Patrick Williams can do without dear that’s not a knock on dear dear was Patrick Williams biggest champion and quite frankly a lot of Patrick’s growth if it happens it’s going to be because of dear and and the foundation he helped provide but I like that they’re leaning into those guys because I’m I’m curious to see what they can do I give him B minus I think if you’re grading on a curve with where this team was June 1st I think they’ve done as about as well as they possibly could have since that time to your point to me it doesn’t even just go back to cruso it goes back to Andre Drummond they got Drummond left for nothing they could have gotten draft Capital at the trade deadline for Andre Drummond they tried to get to the playoffs with Drummond was obviously a big part of this rotation and this roster last season so you know if you great on the curve I give them B minus I don’t again even you know now several weeks later feel like they should have gotten some draft capital for Caruso especially from Oklahoma City you know even a second round pick would have made me feel a little bit better about it and in addition to Giddy you get draft capital for an unrestricted free agent like d rozan that’s complete win in my mind uh I do like Smith upside certainly for draft Wise buis It’s A B minus right now with the possible incomplete slash to be continued if they do make another move for Zach I think then the offseason will be fully complete and we can truly judge where this team is but like you I’m happy they are now in a direction that there is a clear Direction with this team our tourist promised change was coming to this roster after the season ended change has come to this roster uh it may not be the exact change they would have wanted to make but this team is going to be very very different next season and Beyond which our argument fundamentally from the past year and a half when you and I talk has always been the core of vich doose and LaVine wasn’t working it isn’t working and they needed to Mo move off of that it’s a little bit too late where they held onto their assets a little bit too long but at the same time I’m glad right now where we stand in early July they they are in a youth movement Direction focusing on Kobe and IO and giddy now as being you know part of the the core of this roster uh Casey as we wrap it up any any final Thoughts by you no busy busy stri headed a summer league this week so here we go check out KC’s work at Twitter xkj hoop certainly if a deal for LaVine uh comes to be you’ll want to check out his work and his thoughts on the deal and what it means for this franchise at NBC Sports Chicago and NBC Sports chicago.com thank you everybody for listening for watching on YouTube for subscribing we really appreciate all of you taking time out of your weekend or your weekday to listen to us and we want to hear your thoughts about the D rozan trade if it was good for the Bulls or would you have liked to have seen D rozan back on this roster as it is right now the Bulls are trending to keep that top 10 protected pick that they’re getting from the Spurs and a lot can change between now and mid October but the Bulls certainly are in a direction of a youth movement I think most fans are happy about that we’d love to hear what you think about that as well so for KC I’m Kevin Anderson this has been the Bulls Talk podcast brought to you by toota Let’s Go Places thank you everybody have a great rest of your weekend and go BS all right now that’s over I want to tell you the three keys to being a real Chicago sports fan it takes guts sacrifice and downloading the NBC Sports Chicago app when there’s highlights you can pounce on them when there’s exclusive insights you listen and take notes and you won’t get blindsided with the push alerts so download it

On the latest Bulls Talk Podcast, K.C. Johnson and Kevin Anderson break down DeMar DeRozan’s sign-and-trade to the Sacramento Kings and his three-season tenure in Chicago. They discuss what the Bulls will miss most from DeRozan and assess his fit with the Kings. They also explore the potential for Chris Duarte in Chicago and if the two second-round picks acquired could help facilitate other moves. One of those potential moves is the ongoing trade saga of Zach LaVine. K.C. and Kevin also take an early guess at Billy Donovan’s lineup and potential rotation now that the Bulls have 15 players under contract. It’s another jam-packed episode.

#ChicagoBulls #DeMarDeRozan #SacramentoKings

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