The Case For Why the Phoenix Suns Were Right To Run It Back This Offseason

The Case For Why the Phoenix Suns Were Right To Run It Back This Offseason

today on locked on Phoenix Suns James Jones Matt ispia they told us back in May that they were basically going to stand Pat Tinker on the margins believe in continuity and after most of the Dust has cleared on the off season well it looks like that’s exactly what they did so allow me to make the case for holding steady let’s go you are locked on suns your daily Phoenix Suns podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day and we’re back this is locked on Phoenix Suns part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day I’m Brendan clean your host as well as a credential media member who has covered the Suns for the past seven seasons and the host of the just basketball show Welcome in thank you for making locked on Sons your first listen to kick off your Tuesday one day closer to Summer League I’m excited I hope you are hit follow or subscribe if you have not already we’re free and available on all podcast platforms including YouTube all you got to do is hit that button stay in the know get locked on to the Phoenix Suns each and every day Monday through Friday all offseason long becoming every dayer right here with the show today’s episode is brought to you by FanDuel America’s number one sports book and the official sports book of the lockdown podcast network is the playoffs wind down across Sports they’re not quite what we want them to be this time of year the sports just aren’t there but this summer fanduel’s hooking everybody up with a boost or a bonus every day that’s right there’s something for everybody every day all summer long at FanDuel visit fanduel.com to get started okay let’s roll here so the Suns have one roster spot left after after two draft picks two free agent signings two reigning well three in O’Neal bow and Lee we heard on two on Monday morning that the suns were in on Haywood heith the sort of combo forward defensive athletic guy from Miami he ended up going back to the heat on more than the Suns could have offered apparently even got a call a personal call from Damen Lillard as the Bucks pursued him as well but we’ll see what that final roster spot ends up entailing clearly it’s not set in stone might end up just being Josh shogi but for the most part you’re looking at a team where the top seven from last year’s playoffs in the big three O’Neal Allen and nurkic um I guess that’s six and then B we’ll call Seven are basically coming back on top of that the additions that they’ve made have been pretty standard right to rookies that Phill needs to veteran minimum role players who basically kind of fill in the gaps and add some depth and experience and raise the floor that’s running it back for now so today we’re going to make the case for why that made sense tomorrow I’ll look at maybe the pessimistic angle a little bit as far as it did not make sense to do that but I think there’s a lot of value to what they did and so I want to start with the positive and start with the the rose-colored glasses here a little bit when it comes to their off season here in Phoenix so number one the case for standing Pat maybe the nerk plus pick trade that we all argued about and debated and concocted in our brains just wasn’t there maybe just wasn’t there right I look at the summer so far and we just haven’t seen a trade like that frankly the closest thing moved Devon Grahams $3 million guaranteed to Charlotte for one second round pick we saw uh the the the Nuggets do the same thing to move Reggie Jackson with three second round picks he was at about $6 million the naav sort of did it with one trade in they put Josh Green to the Hornets for some sort of price and then ended up getting Clay Thompson the same thing sort of happened with the Spurs where that’s I’m sorry with the Kings where that’s probably the closest and in that case the Spurs were the ones that were um being on the receiving end of the D rozan Chicago sign and trade situation where the Spurs take back Harrison Barnes kind of a nage type contract where he’s an older player doesn’t have a ton ton ton of value on the court and is a little expensive and then the Kings gave up a 2031 that sounds familiar right pick swap on protected in order to send Barnes to the Spurs and be able to get back to Rosen however even that’s not a one toone comparison to what the Suns would have been looking at with nurkic because one that was a sign and trade which the suns are not allowed to do and two part of how that all ended up shaping out is the kings were able to give d rozan a bigger contract than what Barnes had which is again not something the Suns would legally be allowed to do under those second apron rules so there’s not a one toone comparison one other option that doesn’t involve nurkic but could have been utilizing this 2031 pick which is still in the sun’s Treasure Chest right now is what Minnesota did right where they just sort of created a pick out of thin air high up in the lottery that they wouldn’t have had access to elsewhere by trading 2030s um a pick or I’m sorry I think a swap in 2030 and then a pick in 31 either way those two assets together which the Suns couldn’t quite do themselves but maybe you could have moved up from pick number 22 where the sun started out into the lottery if you gave up the 2031 pick but of course the question becomes for who right so that trade didn’t happen anywhere else in the NBA these you know the the Bucks didn’t get off of Brook Lopez the way that they might have wanted to we didn’t see a you know Michael Porter Jr trade from the Nuggets like and they’re not even in the second apron but you know like we might have thought the Celtics of course weren’t in that camp at all they’re resigning everybody and then the Wolves so maybe it wasn’t there that’s a good case for why you do this is you can’t make something out of nothing and if it was going to be there the value probably would have been terrible I think in the league right now you’re also well we’ll kind of get there later but the the point is the league you’re seeing the value of cap space for teams be a little bit more valuable than it used to be just by way of taking on the money of teams like the Suns so that those teams can be more flexible and so there’s no need to have your move be to take nerkish back if you might like some of the other options that are similar out there like what the Spurs did with Barnes or what the Hornets did in a few spots or the Pistons did in a few spots that can be better but on the other hand the Suns maximized everything else which is another feather in the cap another sort of you know a W for the Fe people who kind of wanted to run it back a little bit here which is that they started the draft with pick 22 they ended it with Ryan Dunn osoi Garo and two extra second round picks I mean that is four assets out of one pretty incredible they did trade uh some other stuff along the way but that’s pretty nice I mean that’s very they got it they should get an A for the draft they added experienced High floor depth pieces to kind of Cobble together and and protect the big three a little bit just from a workload standpoint and a a floor standpoint and they stayed older while adding youth if that makes sense and here’s what I mean by that the average age last season heading into the year for the Suns was 28.1 they were like the fourth or fifth oldest team in the NBA that you know had been in the league for a while this year Royce O’Neal is obviously there so that sort of changes things but they got plumbley they got Morris so all of that will be able to just sort of start the season off in a good spot with stability but also they now have some developmental projects like done igodo and the two two-way guys and you know maybe after summer league somebody like Boo buoy or whatever will become another two-way option so the trade they might so if you had told me that heading into the summer and then you said you know so all in all they ended up standing Pat I kind of would have understood it the other reason the other case for standing pad is that the sun’s onc Court product their best players together worked pretty well I’ll break down how it could look with even more time together and what the optionality is that they now have after their moves this summer coming up next first Today’s Show brought to you by better help better help is making therapy easier more accessible on your schedule really no excuse not to go with it comparison is a thief of joy for a lot of us it’s easy to Envy other people’s lives it might look like your best life as I’ve said before therapy does not have to be about an emergency or something severe or scary or painful in your life it can just be about coping setting boundaries empowering yourself dealing with everyday life if you’re thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it’s online convenient flexible and suited to your schedule all you got to do to get started is fill out a 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their guys were on the court they were really hard to to stop they were really hard to beat and when all of those players scored well and were in a rhythm together I’m not going to say it was impossible to beat them but they were one of the better teams in the NBA numbers wise they had a 124 offensive rating and a plus 7 net rating with the big three on by themselves that’s not as good of a number as you honestly would have liked to see necessarily but we know that when you add Grayson Allen into that the offensive rating was absolutely off the charts and even the starting lineup the kind of you know that let’s say the playoff starting lineup when Grayson was healthy that first round series of the big three Allen and nurkic had a 127 offensive rating and a plus 10 net rating those are very very good numbers now I’m not going to sit here and lie to you and say they’re the most elite numbers you could possibly find they aren’t but they’re a good place to start from and you know hope that chemistry Health depth can make that even better when these guys are playing off of each other at a higher level and you know maybe at their physical best when they are playing now Matt isia said in his post post season press conference back in may he said quote one of the things we talked about at the beginning of the year so think back to last October is quote can we get our guys to play 60 to 65 games together I think we played less than 40 that continuity does affect it now it doesn’t mean that’s why we lost it just means it’s something we have to be aware of I couldn’t find the exact quote of ishbia or I believe it was ishbia who said that their plan was to keep the starting five together but I found that quote and that that speaks to it right and so kind of take them at their word if they believed and remember we didn’t know it we didn’t know the Suns had this eight and trade in their back pocket all last summer but as much as you can say they didn’t have training camp together and the Damian Lillard Aon trade ended up being this kind of bomb that went off right before everything started up in the fall the sun’s kind of knew it now the timing and the the time together of all of that of course matters I’m not going to pretend like that was insignificant but just think from a team building standpoint the Suns knew nurkic was going to be their starting center for a lot longer than the rest of us did they didn’t know the Allen on part of it they thought it might be Victor Oladipo which is sort of crazy to think considering he didn’t play last season but they believed in nkit for a full 12 months now let alone whatever happened in the season and then he had a pretty decent season and a lot of the numbers would tell you I know eubank’s being so bad was part of why the numbers look better for nurkic I get that but the numbers would tell you that him plus the big three was really really positive stuff and then of course we know Allen had a great year so what they went ahead and did is they basically so far have kept it together and they bu built more optionality into the structures that that big three is going to be in right just think right now as things currently stand the Suns can run a big three a lineup featuring The Big Three Plus a point guard in Monte Morris and any sort of other fifth guy that you want they can run the big three in a smaller uh version with more either defense or shooting or whatever they want to do where they could put you know depending on if you call bullbull small ball you could put him out there you could put Durant as maybe the biggest guy and have Ryan Dunn and let’s say Royce O’Neal out there as the other two guys around the big three and kind of have that you know nobody smaller than 65 nobody bigger than 610 type of mix in there you could go huge and go the big three with two bigger guys let’s say bow and nurkic or Roy and dir nkit or d and nkit or whatever the goal is to get more out of the big three with better depth and defined roles for the rest of the players and frankly more defined roles for the big three I know that sounds dumb but you just listen to the interview that um Kevin Durant did with Vince Goodwill on Yahoo sports this week that Brandon Dess and I talked about on Monday’s episode here on the show where you know we focused on the trade aspects of it and him refuting all the rumors and everything but in that interview he talked about a role he talked about how he he’s comfortable filling any sort of role to me with just focusing on KD for a second the problem with him like Brandon said this on the show yesterday and we didn’t have time to dig too deep into it because we had a lot of stuff to get to but you know he said Durant had a great defensive season I think Durant had a very good defensive season season I think he had a great two or three months on defense in the middle of the season when the team got healthy but before that end of the year last month or so and things started to get wonky so let’s say from like late December to let’s say just after the All-Star break I thought Durant was great on defense the rest of the time I think he was just being pulled in a lot of different directions and he wasn’t able to do that consistently be a on ball stopper be an off ball helper be a great defensive rebounder those things weren’t always possible because he’s having to take a bunch of shots this game and he’s spacing the floor this other game and whatever the case may be obviously we know from a ball handling standpoint there’s a lot to sort out with Booker and Beal and then whatever role you know Allen or Monte Morris or the bit the centers now are going to play in terms of initiating and then who’s what are the matchups and what’s kind of the pecking order on the defensive end these are all things we didn’t know going into last season we still might not know for sure but with Morris with plumbley with a step forward from B with Lee coming back as a shooter Allan O’Neal I think we have a better idea of what everybody will be doing one through 10 1 through 15 when they’re on the court here’s what James Jones said in may quote it’s important to remember that we’re starting with six seven eight really good core players when you’re talking about building on the margins I think we have more than enough to do that effectively I I mean I think that’s been proven out right he he he told us exactly what was going to happen and we all just you know again I’m totally good if you still think they haven’t done enough I’m just trying to say that this was their goal and they pretty much achieved it they turned the draft pick into multiple contributors and multiple assets they got very solid players on the minimum Market they resigned the players we all knew were the most important ones to bring back check check check you know now let’s look forward because obviously just saying St Pat is great because this and that that’s all theoretical things can change as the season goes along but I actually think that’s part of what the suns are betting on is that they get more time to evaluate this whole thing before they rush into a decision I’ll tell you what I mean coming up next we all love sports but sometimes during the summer they just fizzle out and unfortunately they’re not quite what we want them to be FanDuel is stepping in to fix that problem they let you keep the sports going whenever you want all summer all you got to do is open the app dream up bets anytime you’re in the mood and this summer FanDuel is hooking up all customers with a boost or a bonus daily that’s right there’s something for everybody every day all SU long so head over to fanduel.com and start making the most out of your summer I have told you the soccer is what my eyes are on there’s also WNBA stuff going on constantly the Home Run Derby’s honestly like a fun one to bet on uh I love anytime goal scores and soccer because you get plus odds on everybody you can get a little uh boost you can get a little better likelihood cuz soccer can be random but if you just bet on the guy most the best goal scorer on each team that’s pretty solid odds at the end of the day Colombia Argentina Canada Uruguay France all of it FanDuel America’s number one sports book and an official sports betting partner of Major League Baseball all right let’s close out the show let’s look ahead as we make the case for the sunstanding pat all right reason number one that this could be a sound strategy in terms of their flexibility going forward is that the deadline could simply be a better time to make a move like the ones we want the Suns to make or the ones the only ones they can make might be a better way to put it right nurkic plus a 2031 draft pick but I’ll also remind you I think second round picks attached to some salary tend to be easier to trade at the deadline we see that for multiple years now we’ve seen it often whether that’s ruy haimura Jay Crowder obviously with the Suns Royce O’Neal on and on down the line but on top of that nurkic and nir little won’t be the only salaries that the Suns have by the time the trade deadline comes around in seven months or whatever Grayson Allen will become trade eligible in the fall and Roy NE will become trade eligible in December January when all the new signes get added to that mix okay so there’s just going to be more options is the bottom line here and there’s tangible proof of that this past deadline I know I’ve mentioned this trade a million times but let me just do it one more time PJ Washington for Dallas they go out of their way to re resap their pick basically with the Thunder they turn around they use that pick send it to Charlotte along with Grant Williams who was basically a version of like what their their version of what Royce O’Neal will be for the Suns just a guy that they thought they wanted who maybe ends up being more of a trade chip they attach that pick to Grant send that out and get back PJ Washington not the only one though Terry roier very similar two more maybe of like the Yousef nurkic route but nurkic uh Lowry was was fully expiring at that point so it’s a little bit different but a big salaried player combined with the future first round pick to bring in a Difference Maker that’s what Miami did so those are two different versions of What the Suns could be looking at with nurkic Allen or O’Neal at the deadline along with having more seconds to trade uh with with having those second second round picks to trade and everything else matsh Pia said and this is why I still believe that the Suns will be looking and I would honestly just say before we fully flush the toilet on this summer and a trade and I know I keep ringing the bell but look even as I’m making the case for them standing Pat I got to be myself MattB said quote if fans like to look in the future and say hey I really like that 2031 draft pick because maybe that seventh grader is going to be really good and we’re going to draft them and one day he’s going to be a player you ain’t going to like the Phoenix Suns because we’re going to say draft picks are get great players so they told us they wanted to mostly St Pat back in may they also told us that pick was certainly an opportunity to improve the rest of the roster so you could say they’re talking out of both sides of their mouth maybe they are a little bit but that also just speaks to why I’m not fully moving on from the fact that it could get traded this summer I’m also fully believing that they will exploit trades with that pick in the spring or in the winter at the deadline keep an eye on the Utah Jazz though as this summer continues because if they move low Markin and not only will that create some Ripple effects with other teams rosters like the Warriors if the warriors were to potentially get him but it will also mean that the Jazz are in full tear down mode as we assume the Nets are still right what’s why has cam Johnson and Dorian FY Smith not been in rumors I don’t know so there’s still more to be done the Jazz makes sense as a partner because they would love to have another future future pick and they have a lot of salaries that the Suns could absorb so keep an eye there ishbia said the 2031 pick was not some sort of you know Untouchable asset but it hasn’t gone anywhere yet the last thing I will say is oh actually one more thing on the trade because I said I would return to it when it comes to Charlotte I thought you know Nick Richards Grant Williams there were guys on that uh Cody Martin there were guys on that roster that made some sense even Jaylen McDaniels who ended up going I honestly don’t remember Sacramento is that where he plays now and Charlotte’s a perfect example of why the market for the type of trade with nurkic and a pick that the Suns may have wanted to make was easier said than done what the Hornets basically did is they entered the cap they entered the offseason with a ton of cap space more than a lot of other teams could had and if you even go back to last deadline they did a version of this with um well they took back vasil vasilia mit from Oklahoma City in the Gordon Hayward trade which is a little bit more of obviously Hayward made a lot more money but it was the fact that Hayward was expiring and meich was had money on the books this year as did uh povsky and Davis B this summer and they basically said instead of taking back a highly paid player like nurkic what we’re going to do they also did it with Lowry at the deadline for the rier trade instead of taking back one expensive player like nurkic who really doesn’t factor in for us and everything else what we’re going to do is we’re going to split that up over some players we either like more or just multiple guys where we can add up more and more assets rather than just one pick or one team’s assets we’re going to go in a variety of directions so what they did is they took back Reggie Jackson from Denver for three second round picks they took back um Devonte Graham from the Spurs as I mentioned for I believe one second round pick they took back Josh Green from Dallas for I don’t remember what they got in that trade a handful of seconds for sure I I don’t I don’t believe they got a first for it because he’s a good player but at at at the end of the day like I can’t fault them you know they get back Josh Green who is a much better use of money then as a young player who could still get better than nurkic they get meich who’s a good capable backup point guard dating back to last trade deadline and then they cut Devonte Graham and Davis ber to basically just say we’ll eat the money but they’re not even going to factor into our roster you can’t really do that with nurkic when he has two full years left on his deal and then you know for all we know Reggie Jackson could still play for them and he’s the only guy that kind of fits that nerkish mold as maybe in the older Camp although I would say I mean nerkach is a much better player than Reggie Jackson but still when when Reggie Jackson only makes 5.2 million you can get away with it even if he’s just sort of a guy that you trust to go out there and like make some open threes then you can deal with with that when that’s the price tag so again I think teams were just a little bit more likely to say we’re going to use our cap space and we can afford to be choosy taking back other teams mistakes or other teams bloated contracts rather than doing the Suns a favor just to get this magical 2031 pick if teams didn’t like nurkic as a player if teams thought they had better options if teams just didn’t want to deal with that much money and wanted to take smaller bites at that Apple what are the Suns really going to do about that at the end of the day so the deadline can have those opportunities for them last but not least I think another part of the case for standing Pat is that could just be a better team for Player Development this year here in Phoenix right I mean last year it’s it’s easy to say this in hindsight I’m not going to pretend and I don’t think I have pretended as I’ve been talking and beating drum but I was all on board with the way that the Suns built out last year’s roster I liked a lot of the guys but this year moving away from those mid Prime veterans in favor of higher floor more experienced certain stable depth pieces creates an environment where the players who are here to develop are here to develop and that’s kind of it just built into the team last year almost everybody was in a competitive environment to grow earn minutes beat beat each other out right where I mean even in in into opening night it was like is nir little going to get that other fifth spot is kab Bates Diop gonna become that guy who’s the backup center is bub going to get any time can Jordan Goodwin be the answer of this backup point guard on and on everybody in in the mix was fighting for their spot now the Vets are the Vets the young guys are the young guys I’m not saying I can read Mason plumley’s mind but in his 30s now I think he’s 34 years old he’s on a minimum contract he understands the point of his career that he is at if Oso eodo beats him out by the end of the year for the backup center spot I do not think there’s going to be a bunch of hard feelings if Monte Morris gets 8 minutes like he just was doing in the playoffs for Minnesota because you know Colin Gillespie gets called up out of nowhere and looks like a freak future building block I mean I’m just making stuff up but or the Suns trade for another player and that guy supersedes any of these dudes even Royce O’Neal for that matter a little bit in the rotation and they lose minutes I just have a feeling that they’ve all accomplished enough that it’s going to be fine and in practice a today it’s clear D igodo the two-way guys bottom of the tot totem pole everybody else somewhere in between and that’s all it’s going to be bull will likely be in contention for rotation spot right away Don and Oso have clear ways that they can step in fill a roll and prove themselves and it’ll all just sort of make a lot more sense you know I think also just the fact of not having remember Bradley Beal missed all the preseason forget the playing it’s also practice time training you know installing stuff getting comfortable with each other he missed all of that the eight and trade with nurkic and all that Allen those guys came in and had to learn on the Fly roles were changing rapidly you can’t predict Health but if the Suns have even a normal first half of the Season healthwise even if you assume people will miss some games here and there the continuity and the and the roll Clarity will just be so much better and you can afford to develop Talent this way when you have a full rotation right when you don’t suddenly have have to press guys that are not ready into action when you have multiple dudes who are veterans who can step in and even if for some reason nir little Ryan Dunn igodo the two-way players are are forced to step in they’re doing it as ninth tenth men rather than starters which is what we saw last year also helps to have a g- league team by the way so there you go more future flexibility Market didn’t develop the big three in the core has a history of proving that they can be successful together and everything just makes more sense there’s your case hit follow subscribe more episodes throughout the week I’ll maybe make the case against it not a full episode I don’t want to be a downer but I’ll do a little bit of that tomorrow we’ll keep up with the news in Phoenix and around the NBA as we get ready for summer league so hit follow or sub subscribe if you have not already get all that in your feed this week and Beyond and I’ll catch you guys tomorrow

The Phoenix Suns did not make a major move this summer (yet), but they did the best they could on the margins.

Brendon Kleen of @justbasketballfans makes the case for why the Suns standing pat was smart and how it could help them this season.

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