Could the Chicago Bulls have gotten more in the DeMar DeRozan trade with Kings? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

Could the Chicago Bulls have gotten more in the DeMar DeRozan trade with Kings? | CHGO Bulls Podcast

[Music] he [Music] what’s going on bulls Nation welcome in to the Cho Bulls podcast presented by Kors light make the most of times you choose chill grab an icy cold Kors light get one delivered straight to your door with insta card go to cores light.com show basketball celebrate responsibly course Brewing comedy Golden Colorado I’m PE Bulls big day B bwl Sports will the go GOI willor goly and the one and only S Bear on control what’s up there happy Monday everybody hope everyone had a wonderful holiday weekend hope everyone still has all 20 digits uh if you were playing with them fireworks yes uh shout out to everybody who joined us for our emergency podcast Saturday night they were deep in there Saturday night of Fourth of July weekend yeah of course is when the Bulls are like okay here’s the Demar signing trade yes huge turnout shout out to everybody who joined us talking about that we’re going to talk a bit more about that Demar s trade on today’s show uh dive a little bit deeper into what the Bulls got whether or not it was enough and then also a deeper dive on the player they got in that signing trade uh third-year player Chris Duarte um I do have a question for you go for it Dave what was your anger level seeing the meter parking when you pulled up uh I wasn’t going to bring it up because I’m really salty about it okay so thanks for reminding me that’s what I do there was like five cars with tickets when I walked up really yeah all across that street there was five orange like envelopes on people’s cars they about to clean up over there how do they get to do that they just decide actually you know what this is going to be me the whole time we’ve been here it’s been just free street parking and then all of a sudden actually this is going to be me Park how how does Jerry how does Jerry still get to own the Chicago Bulls life’s not fair for some of us sometimes when it’s privatized you can do it how you feel man I mean they just better not do it on both sides of the street that’s what’s G that’s what’s gonna scare me if they start because if they do I legit might just quit bye everybody pay for parking four days a week the hell with that you could park a little just one man just a man still I am one man don’t want to pay parking I understand your anger I get it but did you find parking I did I got lucky there you go I got lucky there was a spot on the other side parking okay we found parking we have conquered the day no I mean like meter parking I’ll get over that I’m more cranky that I’m here I mean I love you but yeah no I don’t I don’t get that one Sarah’s happy I’m here happy happy is happy tell us why you cranky P because my nieces are still in Michigan and I have fomo okay okay I can’t do nothing about that I can’t do nothing about that they were not happy that Uncle M had to leave your brother sent me a picture too of course he did of course he did he said doing this what you want I was like bro I’m not gonna do nothing this well if he thinks it’s like blackmail to send you a picture of me looking all cute with nie it was adorable it was I was like look how that’s why I told I was like dude look how happy my man is right here he is so happy look at him D yes and that’s why I’m cranky I was very happy for you and that’s why I’m cranky I was ripped away from my happy place having this here to work nice shirt Sarah by the way oh thank you Thrift um 91 Bulls the Bulls championship shirt 91 Bulls championship shirt very nice park um there’s a vintage stuff what is it round two I think it’s called yeah they had they had a bunch of bull stuff it’s $50 oh that’s a that’s a steal actually 50 is a steal for that really to be real with I thought I was getting ripped off no that’s a good that is a good deal that’s a good deal well speaking of which shout out to our friend Simon Finders Keepers check him out on Instagram the only place you’re looking for awesome OG bull stuff that’s right shout out to both Matts Daniel Alonzo uh Devon everybody hanging out in the comments thanks for joining us uh and uh yes follow lonzo’s advice hit that like button y’all if you’re hanging out with us yes uh all right guys so let let’s dive back into this Demar stuff we talked a little bit about it in our emergency podcast on Saturday night initial reactions but goat I know you wanted to get a bit deeper into into the uh the draft Capital that exchanged hands uh in this Demar trade specifically the Bulls walk away with two second round picks I think nobody in the world except maybe AK and maybe Everly know what years those second round picks are coming from uh probably Monty McNair too but okay right yeah whoever sent them that uh from from Sacramento probably knows also but you were more interested in the fact that San Antonio got a pick swap out of this unprotected pick swap in 2031 one uh from Sacramento the Bulls got no such pick swap why why are you harping on that when we are all kind of in the aftermath of this sign in trade well I think number one is I didn’t really there was just so much chaos when it happened and I feel like I either missed that or it was somebody reported it wrong as a second round pick I thought I was in the impression that it was a second round pick going to the Spurs and like that didn’t feel like too much I mean they had given up a second round pick to get off of Devonte Graham which they need needed to do in order to take in Harrison Barnes you figure Barnes is an upgrade over Devonte Graham so maybe they call it a wash in that way but they did get an unprotected swap in 2031 and that’s the like valuable asset in this deal to me I mean the Kings they’re signing this guy who’s 35 years old sure 2031 is seven years from now he’s probably Demar is not going to be in the league at that point you’ve got Fox who’s a young player but still I mean he’d be past his Prime at that point sabonis same thing so that’s in an era where you expect the Kings to be rebuilding and that could be super valuable especially for a Spurs team who has a ton of picks already and now they’re just trying to you know maximize the quality of those picks and so swaps I think in that way can be super valuable and I feel like if the Bulls had been willing to take on salary in this deal they could have had a swap or even better because you have to consider too like if the Bulls had been the one taking Harrison barnes’s 18 million dollar back in salary and of course that would push them into the luxury tax they could have gotten a first round pick I I believe because they wouldn’t have also gotten the seconds and so when you take that third team out of the equation and you take the seconds out of the equation that could have been a first- round pick coming back to the Bulls which would have been great going into a rebuild now I’m not saying like I can guarantee you that’s what it would have been and also it would have push the team into luxury tax which we know wasn’t going to happen but I just feel like at this point you know you have nine or so million dollars before the luxury tax you got to be using that space to bring in bad contracts and take on picks you’re already in a position where you may lose your pick next year and I feel like to me like I would rather have Harrison Barnes in a first round pick than Jaylen Smith that that to me would have been a better use of that cap space that they had this summer and I just feel like it was a move that I don’t want to say it was like a cheap decision but it was I thought it lacked foresight because yes it’s good to like keep the books clear of bad contracts right now but the whole point of doing that is so that you have space to take in bad contracts for money because because that gets you picks and when you’re in a situation going into a rebuild picks are the most important thing and to me the Spurs kind of come out Highway robbing both of these teams now getting the best asset in the deal and all they had to do was take on a bad contract for it could you real quick just explain people what a pick swap is yeah basically it just means that you know the Spurs got the right to get the better of their pick and the King’s pick so whichever pick they want they get to swap sometimes you can do like a worst and then the Kings would lose their control of the pick basically giving up that to the Spurs but a lot of times what happens is teams will in some of these big Blockbuster trades they’ll give you a pick in one year a swap in the next year and then another pick because the stean rule and the reason they do that is because of the steppan rule where you can’t give up two picks in back-to-back years so this is a way where you get control of a pick without having to give it up so this the Spurs or I’m sorry the kings in 2031 will still have their pick but it’s will be the worst of those two and so that I think is really powerful it’s not an additional pick but you basically get two shots at the lottery in that in that sense and at that point like the Spurs are going to be really good right that’s going to be W’s like Prime you know 27 years old probably and so that’s when you want to be loading up the roster with you know infusing it with young talent that can come in on cheap contracts because presumably you’re going to have a couple of max players on that roster you know including wom minyama and so that’s a great way to continue to bring in young Talent on cheap cost controlled contracts so I really feel like they were thinking ahead in this and you know I don’t I don’t think Barnes is like a great player but he’s making a lot of money I think he can stabilize and and help add to a core on the Spurs where they just need vets who can like play decent basketball and help make life a little bit easier on wemi so what how can you say it to Bulls fans who everything that you’re saying all they kind of might hear is dude it’s 2031 like the Bulls are stinking right now and they’ve got to take on the assets to still get off of Zack LaVine contract so why what can you tell them when they’re thinking maybe this is the focus of what we’re doing in 2024 and not so much 2031 well I just think you know who knows what what the pick would have been in that situation like I said if you remove the third team from the equation okay maybe you’re getting you don’t you don’t have to take those two suck around picks and that can get it so that you get a whole first round pick or a top 10 protected first- round pick the way the Bulls gave up so to me it’s less about like the timing of it and I get that like oh it’s seven years down the line who knows if the Earth will even exist at that point but at a certain at a certain point like you do need to prioritize bringing in quality picks and so that’s just something that I would have prioritized you know they also did take on Chris Duarte and some cash which presumably will pay for some of that if not all of that that contract so they it’s not like they made a bad move it’s just that I think they could have had more yeah and I think that’s the way I feel with a lot of these moves is like I wouldn’t say it’s like a terrible decision or it was like a disastrous situation same with cruso for giddy like I’m not as low on giddy as as most seem to be I I don’t feel like it was the worst thing in the world but I also feel like they probably could have gotten more and so that’s I think how I feel about this and it just you know they didn’t leave so much space by avoiding taking on barnes’s contract that then they could absorb even more space when they offload Zach so one of the one of the ways that you could have um managed this was to clear out more room in the Demar trade or not take anything back so that leaves you some space to be able to send out Zach’s 43 million and take back 55 million and that helps another team clear off their books and it makes it a little bit easier for that team to say okay we’ll take on Zach’s contract right now you don’t really have a lot more space to be able to take in more money and you also didn’t get the pick and so while you kept your books like relatively clean and and dwarte could be off them next year it just doesn’t really help you to facilitate other things and you missed out on the premium pick uh we got a superj here from football CF candy talking about this pick swap saying uh who would you guys bet on being a two on a championship team in my opinion will you’re dead wrong on the pick swap point that Kings could rebuild two to three years before 2031 uh appreciate the Super Chat as always I I think the point is look if you’re assuming seven years from now 2031 is a pick swap that maybe the Bulls could have gotten um from Sacramento is Sacramento still going to have Jen Fox and sabonis and dear I mean Demar is gonna be like 45 at that point like uh it is an assumption that a seven years into his career Prime wemy and a strong Spurs organization that seems to regularly build winners they have their down years but then they build up winners is a team that maybe just cashed in a great pick swap because they’ll be good in 2031 with wemy as their centerpiece and the Kings might not be right because some combination of the younger stars that the Kings have now will have moved on and the Kings or the Kongs and they’ll probably be a failing organization seven years from now that’s a safe bet it’s fair it’s a much safer bet that the Spurs will be good and the Kings will be bad seven years from now very fair or also like I said I mean if the if the cost the outgoing cost for the Kings was you take on Harrison Barnes we get to Rosen we will give two second round picks and a pick swap yeah what if it was just we’ll take in Rosen we’ll send out Harrison Barnes and instead of two second round picks and the pick swap it’s just a first or top 10 protected first like the price could have changed a little bit it could have been in 2026 or something like that I don’t know I just feel like it could have you could have had a little bit more negotiating power if you were the team that was willing to take on the bad money and the reason the Spurs got the swap from Sacramento is because they were the team that took in the significant salary the polls did not and as you pointed out will like it’s a dead end because bringing in barnes’s contract would have put the Bulls into the salary TA or into the luxury tax we know that that’s not going to happen for a team that’s somewhere between not quite competitive and maybe finally actually admitting that they’re rebuilding can the Bulls afford to have that forsight though will with everything that they’re dealing with right now can they have that foresight woring about 2031 I mean they should I don’t know that it’s I mean it just doesn’t seem like picks are all that valuable to this front office quite frankly like they’ve they’ve passed on opportunities to and I guess that is the bigger issue here that like to me that’s problematic especially as you enter a rebuild and especially as you’re trying to offload a big contract that you don’t want anymore you need picks for that and so even if you don’t necessarily like believe in the power of them or you feel like the draft is a crapshoot or you aren’t like a th% confident in your ability to scout like you’re still in a system where those are extremely valuable and just because you don’t want to use them doesn’t mean another team won’t and so you can use those in other deals and yeah I just to me it’s like there there should have been a little bit more of a willingness I think to take on the money even if it means sacrificing you know maybe you attach a pick to get off of Javon Carter and that helps you be able to take something back um not taking dwarte or not signing Jaylen Smith so that you’d have more space I just feel like in a certain sense like that that extra space is an asset that they could have used and instead of using it to take on picks they used it to avoid taking on picks and take on players that could help them now when they don’t want to be good now I think there’s still lots to this conversation about the Bulls front office valuing draft picks or or not and where they are right now with that draft cupboard as they are embarking on this rebuild um and what they got from DeMar and not only Demar but Caruso and and Drummond as well some of their key players departing kind of putting them in this position so that still ahead as well as a bit more talk on Chris Duarte the newest Chicago Bull still ahead on chg bulls but right now we got to talk about the wonderful people with the wonderful app at Circa Sportsbook offering those Tight money line splits and their lwh hold model striving always to have minus 110 odds out of the gate whatever it is that you’re betting on point total over unders game spreads you know we’re really close to having NFL football back right there NFL games to bet on is seriously just so 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is a bulls quote unquote rebuild there is a lot of young talent that you can like that’s still here whether it be kobby white coming off of a near most improved player season arguably maybe should have won that award I would assume really strong bounceback year after a sophomore slump Josh giddy the newcomer via trade Dal and Terry working on a shot a lot this summer uh the number 11 pick who just arrived madis bazis uh my speed special boy Julian Phillips it’s like okay it’s a lot of good young pieces but where’s the piece and I think uh our guy football CF candy brought that up in the comments after we addressed to Super Chat saying that thought about whether or not the Bulls even have a number two on a potential future championship team team right now with any of these young people that they have assembled on this roster cuz I would say flatly no they don’t I don’t see that for any of the young guys that are on this Corp as the rebuild is taking shape uh go what do what do you make of the fact that like this this rebuild after the Demar San trade looks like it’s starting from kind of a rocky place with not a lot of assets well I think they are banking on the young talent that they have like like we kind of talked about before I think the idea here is we have Josh GID we have buis we have Kobe we have a we have Patrick Williams now locked in that’s a core that we can build forward with and so they didn’t want to go through the process of stripping it all down getting a bunch of picks having nothing on your roster playing Julian Phillips 36 minutes a night and being the worst team in basketball for the next three or four years they didn’t want to do that and so instead what they prioritized was getting guys who have already been productive in the NBA bringing in Talent who you could be a little bit more excited about and letting them grow together and I think you either get to have that or the draft picks when you’re kind of building from where they were building from had they started to tear this down a year and a half ago when they should have like you could have had a little bit more to work with you could have had some of those young players you would had a earlier look at Patrick sure Kobe could have taken a step forward a little bit earlier and you could have gotten those picks that didn’t it didn’t happen this way so I think a lot of it is just a product of when they decided to actually go for it it’s better late than never but it is still too late and I think that’s why you end up where you are like I said you know you do have to give them credit for going down the path that they need to go down but I do think that they are I don’t want to say like setting themselves up for failure but they’re giving themselves only a very narrow road for Success that they really have to walk at a very fine line because you know you’re gonna have unless something changes you’re going to have V and Zack LaVine and Tory Craig and Javon Carter and a bunch of guys that are like competent NBA players if not really good NBA players in Zach so there’s a chance that this team is better than one of the bottom 10 teams in the league and if you give up that draft pick I think that is that’s like the narrow line that you’re walking right that’s the thing at the end of that narrow walkway that you need to get to because if you trade Zach and can’t get anything for him you ultimately move off of v and maybe it cost you a second round pick you’re going to do that without having that coveted draft pick that’s like the prize here and so that has to be the priority and I think that’s that’s also like that has to be part of the equation when you’re talking about how do you manage this Zack situation justes keeping him push you closer to losing that pick and if the cost of ensuring you get that pick is that Portland pick or another first round pick like is it worth it I don’t know the answer to that but those are the questions that they have to answer for themselves when you’re talking about the like the fine line that they’re walking right now yeah I I agree that the pick is what they’re after and I’m completely okay with them not knowing who’s the number one or number two on this team I I said this on the show on the emergency show this is why I was so excited to go into this season because those questions are gonna get answered One Way Or Another We’re going to know who’s a one who’s a two who’s a four who’s a six like we’re gonna figure it all out uh this season by what happens on on the floor if they had an idea who was a number one I think this would be being built differently and they would actually be trying to do things to win but since they don’t they’re doing everything to try to do those things to lose and I shouldn’t say to lose but to you know go for that pick but will and they have to do that because again they’re operating from that position of weakness so I don’t see them getting back positive gains from certain things I’m just willing to take back whatever you want to give me uh give me that belt give me that roll of tape you know what I mean give me that poster right there I’ll take all of that just hand that to me I I have to be willing to take these L’s because of the position they put this team in and they put the position they put this organization in with not making those moves previously as you guys stated so you have to be okay with and comfortable with them taking these losses because they can operate from a position of strength when they talking about getting rid of Zach or getting rid of Vu or making any of those kind of moves but what it’s about is the young talent that they have that they do believe in they do have faith in a young talent and I have some Faith uh in several of the guys uh on the squad I think we voed was our opinion on which guys we really believe in on this squad again those questions are going to get answered about those guys can Dal Terry shoot can Julian Phillips take a lead forward cam Patrick uh Williams be be a dope player that we think that he should be is Maus buellis that kind of dude with a three-point shot what is gidy gonna look like running the point can Kobe take another step you know I mean another leag can he be a 20-point score in this league what’s IO gonna look like I completely forgot about Tory Craig until will just mentioned him I forgot he was still here kind of uh surprised he picked up this SL op super surprised that he picked up that option man so he must I don’t know what the reason he is look around at the market and was like that could be it I’ll just stay here I’m cool you know what it’s fine the food is awesome like I’m cool right here but that’s kind of why I’m excited about it is the unknown but it’s gonna get figured out it’s not going to be a long time it’s just going to be this season and right now they don’t look like a team that’s going to be a winning team if they give 30 wins I would be ecstatic I would be shocked see okay I don’t know about I I wouldn’t be ecstatic I would be a bit shocked I’ll take 30 because 30 you’re still bad you’re still a trash I mean garon in the comments saying like hey the Bulls are like gonna be a 35 win team this coming season 35 or maybe 30 and I’m like excuse me what 35 because I like this Raz right now is a 35 win team and that’s without a serious jump from PE will giddy or Terry they could be back in the playin tournament I I don’t see that you know what I see I see a team that just lost to M rosan and Alex Caruso and those two players together were 30 of your 39 wins this past season pretty much pretty much I I I disagree I think there’s a chance that the Bulls get into the play in mix oh God I mean the Hawks were the 10 seed last year with 36 wins 36 wins gets you into the playin in the Eastern Conference it is bad out there the Pistons won 14 games last year two of them are against the Bulls about that won 15 games Bulls the Hornets won 21 games yeah the Raptors won three of their last 23 games last year these teams are terrible so it’s not going to be easy and that doesn’t even mention the Nets who just traded their best player they did for draft picks and are going to be tanking next year it is not going to be like a guarantee that they get into the play playoffs or I’m sorry into the play um but it’s also not a guarantee that you are in that bottom 10 because in the East alone it’s not hard to make the play in and so they really need to prioritize that because the worst thing that could happen is you know Patrick Williams comes back and plays an 82 Game season and he’s just good enough to push you there and you know Zack line has a bounceback year and V shoots the ball a little bit better and Josh giddy helps some of these guys develop their game a little bit because he’s getting the ball up and down the court a little bit more quickly maybe Lonzo comes back like I I think the pathway to 35 wins is like not that hard to see and this is a year where they cannot afford to win 35 games because that’s that’s how you set yourself back yeah and so I think there should be more moves coming to make things a little bit worse or like not worse for themselves but harder on themselves to win more games I think you know to me like Tory Craig is a perfect example of a guy who is an asset at $2.8 million he’s a contributor at that number and like if you attach him to Zach now you’re getting two players for $46 million in inste of one player for 43 and so I think that’s somebody that they can look to move as kind of sweetener in a Zach deal and also kind of take away from a bit of your ability to have success next year but I just with with the way the East is all of a sudden you’re the 10th seed and you win a game and I don’t know I just that that’s the kind of scary thing if they were in the west this would be no problem sure but it’s not just like who are the bottom 10 teams in the league right it’s the Eastern Conference and staying out of the plan correct Shout I just want to shout out shirtless Wonder to say if they hit 30 wins I’ll give you a shout at the intercontinental belt in a balcony Match Day read that comment and then ask you immediately what I see stand for Intercontinental title yeah yeah yeah so so that is the champion of participants competing from several different continents no no it’s it’s the world it’s the world title and then it’s the Intercontinental title so it’s about how those things different it’s levels to these titles you know what I’m saying World title it’s like the gold the silver and the bronze you know what I’m saying it’s like that it’s just levels to it but InterContinental also means competition between continents which also means the world he’s got the Belt look at him baby oh [ __ ] oh [ __ ] the belt right look at look at shirtless one holding up SE belt look at holding up the Intercontinental Belt D Sarah bear is going to take a picture of it so we can show he’s going clip it onto the balcony oh my goodness right there damn I love him he’s amazing shirtless is all right well so now we need to get to the bottom is Dave would you take that bet because he’s saying if the Bulls get to 30 wins he’ll give you a shot at the intercontinental belt in a to the also I’m very curious to know what a balcony matchon look at him’s he’s egging me on he’s egging me on he’s talking crazy you know what I think I gotta accept this man like you gonna egg me on that way sir you gonna put the title on what competition can we have between the two of you across a Chicago alley I could well a lot I could say I only wrestle for World titles because I have the big gold belt at home baby I I got the ri flat title I wrestle for the big dogs out there but if you want to put your puny title on the line I’ll happily take that off you it’s no problem it’s all right we can do these things I love shirtless Wonder look at the belt that is the real deal too ain’t that the real deal Ryan that’s the real deal look at him dog that is the real dealing up shirtless wonder he went back inside but he left that champ Bel just they’re just just sitting there looking amazing man what is that you can’t make this stuff up you really can’t you know what this kind of reminds me of right now Big Dave is the Hollywood Heights or the the uh Halloween Heights for there’s belt the cumber bun the cumber bun yes just sitting there waiting to be swiped uh Rob in the comments pointing out the uh the good point that uh you know this uh this bull Team kind of overachieved as it was getting to 39 wins this past season um like the clutch record of this team yeah but Zach barely played Pat barely played I don’t know I just think and you can get a boost from playing faster I know we got to go to ad break here but yeah I I don’t know I’m just not that I don’t know I’m a little I’m a little concerned about their ability to overperform okay fair enough I mean it does we all know it doesn’t matter all we’re it doesn’t matter have to noce is will though you got to take that with that the Bulls will be three games under 500 for the rest of time he’s got to be could say uh still more to get to you on today’s show including a deeper look at Chris Duarte the newcomer uh and more of y’all’s thoughts in the comments hit that thumbs up uh let us know what’s on your mind out there in Bulls Nation we’ll get to as many comments as we can but first beer oh yes between work social media and the choices life throws our way it’s no wonder we more worked up Kors light celebrates Rising above and choosing a chill mindset why not turn that rain out barbecue into the will the go got Le man shirtless Wonder first annual karaoke house party in wrestling or after a tough loss subtle scores with the ice cold peace offering full contact karaoke off the top rope make the choice to choose chill and then reach for course like it’s Mountain Cold refreshment because when those mountains turn blue you know just what to do it’s as cold as raah cold ler co- filter and co- package for a smoother finish so when you Embrace a chill mindset it’s a good time to crack open that’s Coors Light and choose chill cuz like I said it’s crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rock make the most out of your times to choose chill choose Kors light get a delivered straight to your door via instacart go to coorslight.com basketball celebrate responsibly cor Brewing Company golden a Colorado C show B today also brought to you by indeed indeed we’re always driven by the search for better but when it comes to hiring the best way to search for a candidate isn’t to search at all no no no don’t search match and match with indeed if you need to hire you need indeed indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million Global monthly visitors according to Indie data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast ditch the busy work use indeed for scheduling screening messaging all you can connect with your candidates faster and indeed doesn’t just help you hire faster 93% of employers agree that indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites according to a recent indeed survey so indeed is giving you speed efficiency and quality boom join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great Talent fast Bulls are you listening hire better people and listeners of the show we’ll get a $75 sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com allity just go to indeed. /all City right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on csgo bulls indeed.com all all City terms and conditions apply need to hire you need indeed [Music] indeed yeah I think because I’m looking at the teams yeah in the East and just going over them as far as you know who’s going to be in the playoffs you know the Celtics will be there the Knicks the Bucks Cavs the magic the Pacers y the 76ers and the heat that’s that’s eight that’s eight so there’ll be two spots for that play in and that’s and it’s going to be the Bulls of the Hawks again Bulls hwks Nets Raptors Hornets Wizards and pistons I do expect the Hornets to be better wow yeah lot bad teams at the bottom of that list a lot of bad the Hornets probably the best one I’ve mentioned because they’re not trying I don’t think the Hornets are trying to lose the Hornets are trying to win they’re going for it they just they’re paying money and making here’s the thing like so that temp seed is open the the Hornets just draft drafted t salon like he is the most raw project in the entire draft okay I think if they were like trying to be more of a win now team they would have gotten a more win now player in the draft same with the Pistons Ron Holland project non-shooter very much like conflicts with assar Thompson who they picked last year they just got Tobias Harris so I don’t know how that changes things but like I just think and and the Wizards are definitely tanking the Nets are definitely tanking I think the Raptors could be a team that tries to take a step forward here with Scotty Barnes now on a max deal um Emanuel quick quickley and RJ Barrett they’re a bit more talented but like it’s going to be between the Hawks the Bulls and the Nets for those final three spots I’m sorry the Hawks the Bulls and the Raptors for those final three spots and the Bulls can’t be the one that gets there because that just puts them in a position of like it’s a complete crapshoot whether you keep your pick or not you can’t like have a down year where you’re supposed to be bad and then not be bad enough I I hear what you’re saying I I still put the Hornets in there though because I think we’re completely disregarding Brandon Miller and how good he is because I think that growth is coming uh this year he will be way better because that dude can play uh it also depends on lamelo Ball’s Health as well that dude can play these are that’s an allar we’re talking about right there uh they they made moves to get better players and even the coach switch that they did like they’re trying to play better and they’re trying to win yeah so I think they’ll be up there uh going for that play in for sure I think they’ll be up there instead of the Raptors are are going to be up there just because they’re the Raptors they’re the velosso Raptors they’ll always be whether they’re trying to or not their downfall always comes in the second half of the season to let you know if they’re trying to or not but in the beginning they’re they’re playing a win that they just can’t help it that’s who they are I hear you I hear the concern though about the Bulls because everybody else that is there you someone said the Pistons might be good trying to win I I don’t know we’ll see they they may be that kind of squad team that won 14 games right and beat the Bulls twice said and now they don’t have you know those guys on that team anymore um so you we know the Wizards aren’t going you know the Nets they traded their best play as well stated um so those two teams I think are the for sure teams that won’t be able to be in that play End everybody else I think is kind of in that Bunch but I think those other teams are better than the Bulls as far as trying to make a play in team the other way and we’ve talked about this before but like the other thing is the way that the lottery Works teams can jump up so if the Bulls finish sixth worst in the league the the lowest they can fall is 10 that guarantees them to keep their pick they seventh they have a non-zero chance of falling out to 11 it’s very small but like less than a percent um but that grows as the further down you go so you know it’s like a half a percent if you’re the eighth it’s three and a half percent if you are nine if you are 10 seed you have a 19% chance of falling to 11 if if you are the 11 seed you have a 78% chance of staying at 11 12 and a half% chance of moving down and that’s like much higher than your combined chance of moving back in so I do think part of it is like the downside exposure to risk where unless you get into that bottom six you do have a chance to lose your pick in the lottery so there’s also like you know in addition to yeah you want to jump up in the lottery there’s just a good a chance of you getting pushed out so even if you do have a bad year and you do tank properly and you are in the bottom seven or eight teams you could still lose out your pick and then it’s like so you just play yeah it’s just just got play gotta be careful with it it’s Gotta play man and it also set well that’s why I’m see the schedule as well because I think how the schedule setup is going to play into that as well is it going to be topheavy to start the season for the Bulls or will they be getting their ass whoop you know later in the season like that’s going to play into it too man I’m talking about the West when I say these things yeah okay so that’s going to play into this also man I’m I’m I’m just very curious I’m very curious hey well hey everybody was sitting around saying what the hell are we doing when the Bulls got out to a 5 and 14 start this past season they got out to a 5 and4 start this coming season I’ll be like all right like that’s how you do all right you see would you what’s up Cooper flag are you R for for the videos of him at the select yeah he’s playing on the USA select team they’re pring getting back in transition breaking up a goahead pass and then coming down and getting a tip slam like he is just giv whe teals over here he’s going to be so good uh meanwhile dysfunctional comment said the Bulls are going to be beating the plane by the Heat and get the 11th pick it’s coming I mean like I’m terrified of that possible scenario that you just kind of laid out will as far as like if the Bulls were bad but not really bad next season and however those ping pong balls bounce sending that pick to San Antonio man yeah I’m just interested to see how the schedule is set up too that’s that’s gonna be very important uh Andrew McCay in the comments saying we have so little faith in Acme we’re asking if the Bulls can be in the five worst teams in the East and we’re not sure if they can do it face palm that is the truth that is the truth like that is I think that’s how a lot of bulls fans feel right now because I mean we we’ve watched whether it’s this regime or the previous regime it’s like this organization can’t even tank properly and yes there’s some luck involved the Bulls got unlucky and ended up picking seventh in the draft three years in a row three years when they moved on from Jimmy Butler uh and then obviously you know doing that after moving on from D Rose joem Lu the rest of that core um and and that you know kind of goes back we can Circle back to to this you know where this all started before we move on to darte with the demard Rosen trait yeah like we were sitting there on Saturday night saying hey we could have seen DeMar rosen walk away for nothing and will you said it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if we did if that’s the way that this all got resolved instead they managed to get a couple of second round picks the cash Bulls fans don’t care about not our cash uh and and a young player in need of a change in scenery could it have been more than that and is this the latest example of a bull front office that doesn’t seem to ever get the upper hand in negotiating with other teams front offices because even if you put the rosiest color glasses on I still feel like most people with a sane NBA head on their shoulders say Josh giddy for Caruso straight up really really really you know I’m like I’m surprised that like we signed and traded Demar away and didn’t attach a draft pick with him somehow and it’s crazy and stupid that that’s how I feel as a bulls fan he’s been hurt been hurt before Dave before that that that question is always attached to okay what’s next when bu fans are trying to map out the future yeah well do we have any faith in this team’s front office whether it was the old one or this one to get the upper hand in any of these negotiations I mean obviously their track record is what it is but I do think they are generally heading in the right direction right now I like I I know people will argue that you know maybe they’re not happy with the plan or they disagree with but like I think that their plan is to try to build the young core without having to like tank for the bottom for multiple years try to keep their pick and add one of the Premier young players in next year’s draft I think they probably need to try to keep their pick again in 2026 where there’s another really loaded draft class headlined by AJ deanza and Cameron Boozer who are both going to be you know potential number one picks in most drafts grab it Joe um so they just I think they need to just follow through with this and continue to try to extract value where they can I think the value element of it has been the problem but I think like the Zack LaVine trade is going to be a great example of how they prioritize picks right now because I think if you want to get off of him by any means necessary it’s going to cost you but if you want to play this out and let him try to rehab his value and come back and play well and see if you can trade him at least for neutral value if not try to get a pick at the deadline that could be good for the Bulls and that could help them get themselves a little bit more on track but it also could win them a few more games which we’ve just talked about that being like a thing that they cannot do so um it’s I think they’re just in a tricky spot and I think they’ve they started from a tough spot and then as a result of that result of the decisions that they made they are now in another tricky spot where they’re trying to thread this needle and it’s just going to be difficult so um you know I think in a lot of ways you you want to hope for you want to bet on the process you want to you know stick to a plan and hope that comes through for you I think the odds and probability with this one are just a little bit more narrow than they would be in some other cases but if it works it could work much better because you don’t have to be the Nets where you’re the worst team in the league for the next three four years trying to pray for lottery luck yeah they got a lot of Goodwill to kind of make up um a lot of it of their own doing as far as how their actions and their words uh a lot of it is their own doing on those SI situations so it’s why when they make certain moves people aren’t over the moon about it because they’ve been burned so many times before by things that have occurred and went down and that’s completely understandable I get that all you can do is start where you start at that’s really all you can do about it and make better decisions and be smarter in what in your dealings so you make and that’s I think that’s kind of the issue that a lot of bulls fans are kind of dealing with we see them making the moves that they’re supposed to make but they’re not the 100% correct right thing that we’re looking at like Matt just mentioned Josh and Alex Caruso trade yes Trey Caruso great you got a player back and and you just walked away with the player for a team who has the most draft picks in the NBA and then you saw them give up draft picks I can’t who was that that recouped their pick it was the Knicks who recouped their picks after they gave up all their picks and they recouped those picks during the draft and they were willing and dealing and doing a bunch of smart things that’s how you build good faith you know with your organization because the Knicks already good and then they stockpile picks on top of that that’s how you build that good faith you don’t just sit and say just watch what we do and then do nothing and that’s the issue there with the front office so they got work to do absolutely they are doing the right thing I think I just need them to do more of the right thing if that makes any sense yeah and I think the more of the right thing is the key here like you can’t get into a situation where you’re just sitting on your hands for three more years this is going to take continued moves and like not not not to say that like they refused to do anything I know they were like looking into deals and just nothing ended up being the right move for them but like they’re going to need to continue to build on this and tinker and like try to let guys play well and then trade them and try to like Buy Low and then sell high on players like Chris dwarte for example um that’s just going to need to be like a big part of the next couple of years and I think you have to be okay with the potential of selling high on some of your own young players whether or not you like hope that they can be the building blocks of your next team like if the reward outweighs you know what you have in it if you can get more picks than or you know you feel like you get a really good deal on picks then it should be okay with moving on from guys because you’re going to need to pay them soon and so it’s not just about like I like Kobe and I think he’s a great player it’s like well how much do you want to pay Kobe on his next deal and can you afford to do that if you if you have you know other expensive players coming in so I think they just need to continue to keep going like they just need to keep going with this direction you can’t like pause and like let things sit for too long because that’s when guys start to decline in value uh DK in the comments saying you couldn’t even get giddy for Caruso straight up in NBA 2k seriously you need to attach two picks with Caruso to get that trade smfh dude has straight trash takes uh so well first of all I I I don’t play a lot NBA 2K I don’t pay attention to NBA 2K trades I pay attention to who gets what for which players in the actual National Basketball Association um interesting way to bring up NBA 2K to talk about that clearly if you feel that way you believe in Josh giddy as a young player was still saring upside in front of him he does I see it less that way I see Josh giddy as yes a younger player than Alex Caruso significantly but a flawed player a one-way player whose defense ain’t great who is a flawed player who needs the ball to be effective and can’t shoot but I if if that if if that’s a player that that you need to pay Alex cruso and two first- round picks for in NBA 2k then cool I don’t know what the [ __ ] we’re talking about G yeah I’m a little I’m a little with Will on giddy I’m a little higher on him uh than you are Matt U but everything you just said I completely understand I get it um it’s just I see him actually getting better at those things but all he can do is you know what he can do and you’re right and I think that’s the point also is he does need to have the ball in his hands and he’s gonna have the ball in his hands so you’re right you’re going to see him be effective but it’s that defense that we need to see the growth in it’s three-point shooting we need to see the growth in again like I said we gonna get all these questions answered this year we don’t have to wait long guys it will not be long before these questions are answered and I’m excited to see and and speaking of questions and speaking of Giddy and his usage next season moving forward football CF candy threw us to Super Chat saying are the Bulls of bottom six team if they lose both Vu and Zach from this roster I don’t think so because you still have like Kobe and IO Patrick like they’re their core of players is so much better than the Nets and so much better than the Wizards and you know they have guys who could blow up a little bit but like I don’t think they’re guaranteed to be in that bottom like 20% depending on who you ask getting Zack and V off this roster would make the Bulls better because Zach is trash and V is trash trash and trash gone and TR team improves CH also PA can we get those Thumbs Up Guys we get them likes going right there there’s over 200 of y’all in here watching this thank you by the way but we going to need those likes give it to the S Bear she needs them likes right there with the dope shirt she got on she need it just Fu say hey just change guiney stats to 99 he could be great 2K baby I love it would how okay I feel like I’m asking your rhetorical question because I’m thinking like how upset would Matt be if he watches Patrick Williams ball out and I know the answer to this question going to be upset he’s he’s not going to be happy watching Patrick Williams if he balls out if he becomes that dude is like oh [ __ ] Patrick Williams why would I be upset by that because that could mean wins oh no for the squad no no no no no him out don’t mean Williams I I think uh a universe exists where we can see Patrick Williams finally take a big step okay production wise okay and it not translate to the Bulls winning too many games next season I hope that’s the case I would love to see it I want to see him be better I want to see him be that dude next season man like I need to see him I need to see that happen this season I mean like if if the question is which would I rather see the Bulls successfully tank and be a bottom five record team next season to you know maximize their opportunity at those Cooper flag Lottery balls or Patrick Williams takes some Giant mooved player leap I might lean P will but no no I mean no stay leaning stay leaning stay over there I’m sorry I I told you man like that I still think that can be a value contract 5 years 90 and I I say that well also feeling as low as I’ve ever felt about Patrick Williams right now Fair that’s fair yeah I just I think like if they make the playin or the playoffs this year like it has to be because Patrick was amazing and like monis was amazing yeah and like if you can guarantee that like the players on your roster are already good yeah it takes away from the pressure to hit a home run in the draft your to me that does you out but why not both like why not you know be in a position where you do keep your pick and you also have promising young players I think that’s what they’re trying to do and I I know there’s risk associated with it I know it’s not like a guarantee I do think that that is going to be like there is a organizational push towards that I would imagine and you’ve seen it with other teams two years ago when Dallas had a top 10 pick going to the Knicks they tank tanked extremely hard their last two games one of them was against the Bulls they got a massive fine for it but you know what that was fine because they got Derk Lively out of it they did and he helped them get to the finals this year he did so like there has to be some organizational like incentive and intention behind being bad and so I think you’re more likely to run into that this year than you were last year for sure uh all right with our remaining time let’s kind of talk about Chris Duarte a little bit um in case you missed Kevin Pelton for ESPN plus did trade grades uh throughout this free agency window um in the three- team trade he gave the Kings a C+ he gave the Bulls a c gave the Spurs an A and on Duarte uh peldon had this thought reminding people lottery pick at age 24 when he was taken by the Pacers at the end of the lottery in 2021 Duarte is trending in the wrong direction after a strong rookie year with the Pacers over the past two years dwarte has posted a dismal 502 true shooting percentage without providing the kind of defense that would be needed to stay on the court without scoring either at volume or efficiency it’s the last year of D’s rookie contract so the Bulls can walk away at season’s end if his career doesn’t turn around uh a lot of people in Bulls Nation on Twitter laugh pointing out and laughing at the fact that he was along with aumu and other new bull Josh giddy all rookie second team in that impressive rookie year that Kevin P mentioned but those uh those shooting splits are are not great uh you know his rookie year he averaged 13 points a game on 43 3780 that’s respectable uh this past season with the Kings when his minutes fell all the way to 12 minutes compared to you know when he was playing his rookie year in Indiana he played a lot yeah uh shooting splits 38% from the field 34% from three okay low volume of attempts um 79 from the free throw line like what do you make of Duarte as his role this upcoming season will is he going to play where is he going to play should he play is the Bulls giving him an opportunity for a fresh start something that could lead to the Bulls resigning this guy or was it just like well we’ll take this guy because we have to take this guy I mean I think you got to leave your options open um you know he did have a good season in his rookie year and just did not really fixure get kind of set into the rotation with Sacramento he’s only playing 12 minutes a game and I think when your minutes go down and your usage goes down it makes every shot that you take matter a little bit more puts a little bit more pressure on you to make those shots and I think that can be hard for a lot of players so hopefully with a little bit more room to run he can regain his shooting form a little bit uh continue to play better defense but I think the Bulls for them it’s just like you need to get value and so if it if that means DTE turns into like a rotation player and he’s great and he’s a fixure of your rotation you want to bring him back on a reasonable deal fine if it means you’ve got a $5.8 million expiring contract and a guy who could be useful to a contending team because he’s 27 years old and in the prime of his career yeah and could get you a pick you got to be open to that too yeah and so I think that’s kind of the mentality that the Bulls should move forward with whether it’s talking about Chris DTE or anybody else on the roster you have to be thinking about maximizing value and I think so far the way that they’ve kind of gone about things with the rebuild is we want to get a Core together right we want to get Kobe and IO and Patrick and Giddy and Maus yeah that’s our core so we’re gonna have to spend a little bit more than we maybe want in order to like set things in place get that Foundation laid but now you’re in a point where okay you’ve got your guys the priority now becomes shifting towards picks and like mobility and flexibility and value that has to be the already moving forward you know and if he becomes a fixture of the rotation that’s awesome but I just don’t I don’t think you can really get married to anybody on the roster to the point where you’re not doing anything for the next three years because you’re just so far away and I think they know that I think that’s why they went out and got giddy instead of a pick package for for Caruso because it was like we know we’re gonna have a hard time offloading Zach we know we’re not going to get you know a massive hall for D rozan if we want to get a young player that fits this timeline in this core Caruso is our only way to do that so let’s go do that this way and then let’s start to you know get value in other places I think that is that has to be kind of the approach of uh Urus when he’s talking about Duarte and with anybody else in the roster first of all shout Jo was it Joshua Simmons who called him the the Puerto Rican Chris Duhan which is hilarious by the way I died laughing do I was cracking up read that that is funny um also South garon is kind of where I want to start this where he says he put up numbers on a bad team he said wave them that’s that wave him wasn’t my thought but the put up numbers on a bad team and I think that may be something to that because he he was on a bad team and he had the ball in his hands and he was able to do a lot that he wanted to do that rookie season when they started getting a little bit better that next year you saw his numbers dip and obviously he went to the Kings and I don’t I don’t watch a ton of uh Sacramento I didn’t watch a ton of Sacramento uh this past year but I do know that they have several guards on that Squad and Mitchell couldn’t even really get tick and I love Daven Mitchell he’s not even there anymore but he couldn’t even get tick on that Squad so I don’t so I might it might be something to that but guess what now he’s coming to a team that’s suspected to be a bad team so maybe his numbers get a little bit better maybe he does some things uh he’s 65 he’s fiery he’s not scared of the shot he wants the ball you know in those clutch moments um he enjoys that pressure uh this is him talking about these things but I’ve seen him also but he wants that kind of pressure and he’s solid he’s not a passer per se like that at at the point guard position he’s kind of more of a score scorer at that position but he’ll give you about four assists you know on a good day he’ll give you about five rebounds something like that I believe his highest from three was what 37% with that rookie season he shot about that so and then just kind of fell off a cliff uh those next two years 31 A2 his second year 34 and A2 is third year yeah that’s falling off of that Cliff there so we’ll see if he can uh regain it and get it back up because that’s also another question that’s still a question for this Bulls team is threep point shooting still a question which is why I’m not concerned about the losing because you can’t shoot threes in this league You’re Gonna Lose that’s how that works but I’m interested to see and is he still someone that the Bulls can trade in the upcoming season or do they have to hold on to him I believe the way that this works with trade uh with players that you get via trade is that they cannot be aggregated in another trade so like the Bulls couldn’t say let’s put dwarte and Javon Carter together 5.8 for dwarte six million six and a half for Javon Carter let’s go get a12 million player I don’t think you could do that for I believe it’s three months okay um so like September but they could trade him one for one or you know put him into another team’s space and get a pick back something like that okay so um that’s I think you know I we were talking about Zack earlier and I saw somebody bring up the Pistons like they just don’t have a lot of movable salary right now one of the guys that they do have that they could move is Tim Hardway Jr but since they just traded for him you can’t aggregate him with another salary for another few months and so that’s that could be kind of a hold up with something getting done with the Pistons if if that’s possible I’m not saying it is yeah uh Flex Bernardo Jr in the comments pointing out DTE has been playing well in these Olympic trial games um uh shout out to Emilio the bo who made the correction on the comments DTE is Dominican not Puerto Rican yeah still funny still funny yo I’m Cuban be you’re Cuban yes Cuban be yes SC me uh yeah I’m I’m curious to see where he fits into this puzzle uh that that Billy Donovan has to figure out uh this this uh upcoming season and training camp like and the thing is like oh good young player just needs to change scenery like I had forgotten that Duarte was a 24 year old rookie yes until he just said it like completely forgot it yeah absolutely right that’s what this player is this player yeah and he’s playing well right now for for his home team you know that but that’s usually how we kind of see things you know right like the average player in the NBA is just Elite when they start playing that world basketball um so I’m interested to see but I can’t take that away from him he’s playing very well uh for for his uh Home Country right now uh we are just about out of time uh thank you everybody for joining us hit the like button on your way out if you didn’t do it yet uh just a reminder that we still got plenty of fun offseason content for yall ahead free agency kind of winding down Bull’s roster looks fairly set and less an unexpected LaVine trade happens or vo trade happens in the coming days or weeks if it does we will be here emergency pods as always uh just like we did with for Demar s and trade Saturday in the meantime free agency check summer league on Deck uh we are all heading out to Vegas Friday morning uh we will be there for the Bulls first two games of Summer League Saturday and Sunday we will have shows for yall from Vegas Friday Saturday Sunday Monday and that being the case uh we are going a little bit lighter through the first part of this week so we’re actually off tomorrow we’ll be back Wednesday with a fantastic episode somebody the Bulls fans are probably going to be very interested to hear from uh who is connected to that number 11 overall pi mod bazis uh so make sure you tune in for that on Wednesday uh in the meantime make sure you read will stuffall show.com Big Dave is at Bow bawl Sports wills at will _ GOI shout out and thanks to our wonderful producer Sarah on the controls today Joey has been on vacay he will be back later this week excited to get him back on the crew uh and he will be out there in Vegas with us having a times he will I am so excited to take an of AG Joyce bath is out to Vegas that just sounds wrong go ahead all right I’m just saying Joey hasn’t gotten to go with us the first two years it was just a lean crew year one and then he was off at Camp year two that’s true and now it goes from Camp to a roulette table it’s kind of how you’re looking at that not fooling me kind of like Camp kind of like Camp it’s kind of like Camp because you camping out right there at the table that’s right uh everybody have a great Monday evening have a great Tuesday we will talk to you on Wednesday unless something crazy happens tomorrow working emergency pod in the meantime see rby good St there [Music] peace we like the May

The CHGO Bulls crew discuss the DeMar DeRozan sign-and-trade deal with the Kings and Spurs in greater detail. In the wake of the trade going down last Saturday night, Bulls fans are wondering if this deal was the best possible outcome for ending the DeRozan Era. Getting something for your best player, who could’ve walked for nothing as an unrestricted free agent, is an achievement. But did the Bulls front office still walk away with the short end of the trade? Could they have gotten a pick swap like the Spurs did? Matt, Big Dave and Will also review the up-and-down start to Chris Duarte’s career and contemplate his role on the team next season.

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