Knicks Offseason Review, Best Remaining Free Agents & Team USA’s Roster with Fred Katz

Knicks Offseason Review, Best Remaining Free Agents & Team USA’s Roster with Fred Katz

[Music] they say oh magicians are so good at getting women I’ll show you how empty pan cover it up now we got [Music] welcome to no dunks here on the athletic podcast Network I’m Tas melis with me it’s the man in the middle it’s Trey kiry hey hey and the man making the magic happen with a great AO coming from him today super producer JD got to step up Tas got to step up you really did yeah we don’t have ski here today although he was with us yesterday for an emergency podcast because demard de r rozan signed and traded from the Chicago Bulls to the Sacramento Kings such a hot debate as to whether or not demard de rozan warrants an emergency podcast I mean come on it’s Demar Rose I saw people saying you did a cam reddish emergency podcast when that’s the bar it could be anybody yeah that’s totally true uh later on today we will talk about free agency moves those left and some other minor moves we know that 12 men’s teams going to play at the Olympics so we’ll talk about that who starts for the USA team just a shout out to yanmo you’re a freaking hero every single time we’ll get to that but we are lucky enough to have Fred Katz join us to talk about the New York Knicks everything Nicks he’s the beat writer for the Knicks on the athletic he does some podcasting work as well he’s on the athletic NBA show sometimes and he’s host of cats and shoot a twice a week Nicks and NBA podcast hey Fred hey so happy to be here thrilled to be here as always thank you for coming on um just quick question does Demar de rozan warrant an emergency podcast if he’s dealt only if you entitle it the podcast otherwise no this guy loves to name a podcast after somebody else’s name doesn’t he cats and shoot Fred are you a good shooter I’m a good shooter compared to all of my other basketball skills it’s easily my best skill but I would say that my NBA comp is like if Reggie Evans weren’t a good rebounder and it’s somewhere in good team guy toughness and physicality I’ll set I’ll set a wildly illegal screen and pick up per and that’ll be about it nobody’s calling that gets your guy wide open Great Stuff exactly exactly it’s why you get punched in the face so much you know I would have said it’s just Shadows you know yeah this is a light Shadow if you’re with her on YouTube with this is a light Shadow on Fred although you shadow although I think I got a sty coming in we’re getting really attractive to start off right now wow big fre signing huh you got a sty in your eye people said he wouldn’t go over the mid-level exception for the sty but look at him now I had no idea that there was a sty coming um so you just gave people some information that they would not have gotten even if they looked at you for many minutes here on our YouTube I would say but that’s what reporters do we’re supposed to tell the story behind the story you can’t see up front damn right so I I want to hear the story here’s a segue of Mel Bridges because let’s just start big picture the New York Knicks go and get this guy after their playoff run from the little brother team from the Brooklyn Nets they go and pluck their best player yeah they had to give up a lot of draft picks but who cares they go get Mel Bridges so I want to hear from you Fred just the details of when they acquired him from both the front offices perspective and from just the city and how they’ve absorbed everything Mikel bridges yeah I mean look I think this was something that they had as an objective for a while and maybe it wasn’t always Mel Bridges being the guy but it was always somebody right like when lion Rose took over this front office in April of 2020 the goal was that they were going to put together tradable contracts they were going to hold on to their draft picks they were going to acquire draft picks from other teams and they were going to be open to flexibility to trade for a star and we saw what played out a couple of summers ago with Donovan Mitchell when they deemed the package that Utah wanted just too much in order to trade for Donovan Mitchell and they backed away and it turns out in retrospect that was a good move Jaylen Brunson breaks out and becomes a star they still have all of these pieces and good players left over they’re able to flip RJ Barrett and Emanuel quickley for OG anobi they’re able to sign Dante dant chenzo and now they’re able to make this Mikel Bridges trade and put together this this roster of extremely switchable athletic defensive minded Wings where even Josh Hart and Dante dienzo project as guys who were going to come off the bench I think the attracted the attraction the bridges was there in part because of you know it’s hard to ignore the Nova stuff but it’s also just how much of a great basketball fit he is you look at him and anobi on the wings and I think there’s a really good argument that’s the best defensive Wing combination in the NBA right now when you just look at their length their versatility and can guard one through five Bridges you can put him on guards you can put him on awesome big wings and you’re in really good shape and then you have Mitchell Robinson on the back side basically helping however and he is he was playing the best defense of his life until he got hurt last year I think I think they’re capable of playing a lot of different styles a lot of different lineups now and this was their move this was them saying like we get the bridges is a zero time Allstar but this we think is going to make us a championship Contender and so they pushed everything into the middle and they have very little trade stuff left over uh but but they think this top eight that they have right now is is good enough to contem for a title when do you think this became a realistic possibility for the Knicks because like you’re saying they’ve had this package ready for whichever star might become available whether it be Mitchell or if Carl Anthony towns would have become available if the Timberwolves season didn’t go as well as it did they made the move for OG at the trade deadline and then it just felt like a whole lot of flirting between all the Nova guys on various podcasts is that when like the groundwork was really being laid here over podcasts and you know like hop staying on the zoom a little bit extra at the end I think it wasn’t just the podcast I think it’s fair to say that Josh Hart was uh having having some commentary for Mikel Bridges behind the scenes there’s a point this year you know you know the Squidward meme from SpongeBob oh where with which for those who don’t know because you have a life and you don’t live online all the time Squidward meme is this you really know that you live online all the time if you’re someone like me who has never seen one second of SpongeBob but knows exactly what the Squidward me and it’s it’s a character from SpongeBob looking out through a window list f as two of his friends SpongeBob and Patrick Star play on the outside obviously yearning to want to play for them and Josh Hart on the record to a reporter earlier this year referred to Mel as Squidward referencing that Meme just looking across the bridge fromn wanting to play with his Villanova buddies in New York they were recruiting him pretty damn hard and extremely shamelessly I I think it’s possible that Josh Hart is now responsible for the most unabashed case of camperon in NBA history and I think he’s very proud of that uh I I I think this is something the players have pushed for for a while I was always honestly very wary of if it was going to happen because I thought the Knicks could offer the Nets a package that would make a ton of sense for them if they decided you know what 50 Lost season not worth it trying to get another St to put next to Bridges let’s break this whole thing down and I thought the Knicks could offer a really good package when they did with tons of draft picks going their way and basically just matching salary with boam bogdanovich but these two teams had not made a trade since 1983 and there was a reason for that like there is there is non basketball non-nba stuff that happens with two teams in the same City and fighting for back pages and not wanting to be the team that gave the other team the pick that ended up number one or not wanting to be the team that gave the other team the star that won its team the title like there’s there’s all of that sort of politics that ends up happening and the Nets and the Knicks had not made a trade since 1983 I think it was a len Elmore trade big big trade podcast were going crazy for that one afterwards that is enormous do this change the playoffs yeah they let they lent Elmore yes yes yes yes yes Fred the pun King is here 40 plus years Len was no more there that was the last time it happened and I just was not convinced it was going to happen again so I was super skeptical and clearly I was incorrect because these teams ended up working something out that I think makes sense for both sides I’m so happy that I haven’t spent enough time online to know that they made a trade in 1983 the last time because because I think I mean maybe it’s it’s not as public as Squidward or not as online as Squidward Squidward is more popular than Len Elmore I would I would say so but uh you know when nothing’s happening in the NBA these facts get spread a lot so I would have found out if I was geeking it out online that they hadn’t made it trade since 1983 that’s freaking unbelievable considering you know they’re just close enough you just would think that you mentioned tampering like there’ be enough front office conversations that happen here or there and they would just get something done there definitely have been guys that have played for the Knicks and the Nets but like that rivalry that we don’t want you getting the best of us is that part of the reason why the Knicks had to pay so much for a guy that hasn’t ever made an All-Star team that I’m not so sure I honestly think it’s more because the Nets were in a position where they had said like we don’t have to trade him at this second okay I don’t think the Nets decided okay we are trading Mikel Bridges at some point in the next day or week or coming months or we have to trade them before the start of the next season I think the Nets decided they came to a point where they were like if a really good offer presents itself then we’re going to take the really good offer and they had had really good offers before right like immediately after trading for him they received him in the KD deal immediately after trading for him there were reports they were offered four first rounders for him and they turned it down you know the Rockets made a play for him and the what the actual package that they offered is is Up For Debate depending on who you talk to right but it’s it it included some mix of their own picks back maybe it included Jaylen green like it was a real offer and and they said no to that and their plan all along was they wanted to go use the extra draft picks they had because they have Phoenix’s picks they have some Philadelphia picks and they wanted to be able to use those picks in order to trade for another star maybe a Donovan Mitchell and put him next to Mel Bridges and then be able to compete with those two guys at the top of your roster once they deemed that just not a viable move anymore especially because Mitchell just extended with Cleveland I think they’re more open to moving him but they weren’t like in a place where they have to do it now because he still got two years left and the thing with Bridges is he is the maybe when you go through trade value it’s not just about how good you are it’s about how good you are and how well you fit and the thing with Brides is that he is one of the best players in the NBA who you can plop on to any team in the league and he would make them better on both sides of the ball without disrupting their ecosystem on either side of the ball yeah you know like if you have if you take LeBron James obviously he’s a better player than Mel Bridges but you’re gonna change some stuff on your roster like you’re gonna change some things around you’ll be like we have LeBron James let’s change how we run our offense to optimize LeBron James and I think the value in bridges and and it’s similarly in oan noi is that you can throw him onto your roster and you don’t have to change a thing about your offense or your defense and he’s going to make both sides substantially better and and and I think that’s something when you have a player like that who is that High Caliber of a player and fits that description that guy can go for a ton of money and be insanely valuable or in this case for a ton of draft picks yeah absolutely no burden uh on the roster because of what they’ve done both together as a unit as in Villanova where they won a title with d Dev chenzo and Hart and Brunson and I want to get to that part because you you did mention that you think that Hart and D venzo will likely come off the bench and it sure feels that way you know obviously Brunson starts and then it’s going to be most likely Bridges ogan and Obi and Randall as your 2 three4 beside Mitchell Robinson that’s a monstrous wings those are monstrous wings um they’re huge but is that I mean is that a given is is har and Devon chenzo just the the top two guys coming off the bench essentially I mean I I I can’t think of a situation unless somebody’s hurt where that wouldn’t be the case yeah I mean neither can I Anon noi’s going to start Randall’s gonna start Bridges is gonna start yeah you don’t pay anobi $212 million not to start Julius Randle is a two-time all NBA player still in his 20s you don’t pay you don’t pay four unprotected first round picks and another first and another swap for Bridges not to start so I I anticipate those guys starting and I anticipate D jenzo seeing a lot of minutes off the bench Hart seeing a lot of minutes off the bench you know it’s not like Hart walked into last season as a starter he ended up entering the starting lineup out of necessity for the most part you know and their opening days starting lineup their two and their three were were Quinton Grimes and RJ Barrett and then they had Randall at the four and Hart was kind of their backup four and was going to play 25ish minutes off the bench and I see maybe him entering somewhat of a similar role with all the injuries last year they got to a point where hardt had to play 48 in every playoff game MH that’s a really deep team it’s a really good problem to have when you’re six and your seventh guys are starter quality players and we’ve seen those guys can be starters on good teams because just last year they were starters on a team that came one win away from the Eastern Conference Finals so I think that’s a really good problem to have I don’t anticipate either of those guys being you know causing problems because they’re not starting Josh hark complains about everything no matter what if he were starting for real no I’m not even kidding if he were starting he would complain constantly on the record to reporters that he was playing too many minutes and if he were coming off the bench he would complain that his role wasn’t big enough and he would do all of it purely just to troll tibs because I don’t think that there is an activity that any NBA player loves more than Josh Hart loves to troll Tom Tibido in the public media so like he’s going to complain no matter what you do and everybody’s going to laugh him off and I think dvon chenzo is going to play the role I mean it probably also helps that like Hart and Devon chenzo and Brunson like these guys are recruiting Bridges to New York they wanted this I don’t think they were thinking oh well Bridges will come and they’ll come off the bench you know I don’t think that was I don’t think that was that was the Cell at all so I don’t think anyone’s caught by surprise on this one at all yeah that would be pretty rude of them to go Squidward meme with the starters in the bench when M Brides gets here they’re like sorry man you got to always be Squidward but it is like these guys have grown since their time at Villanova you know Brunson was a star but Dante D venzo the Michael Jordan of Delaware I think he was the mop uh the year one of the years they won the championship Bridges became a number one option like these guys were draft prospects way back when it’s easier to get along when you’re 19 and 20 years old all fighting for the same thing things have changed a little bit now but you got the the power of friendship to fall back on is that just what these guys are assuming we’re back in college having fun winning games that is what they’re assuming yeah I mean look there there were examples last year of stories that I heard because remember Ryan Archie diako was on the roster for most of the last year too he was the he was the point guard for that Noah team and there were there were times last year where you know I would talk to Ryan Archie diako in the locker room or talk to Josh Hart in the locker room or whatever and just casual conversation what’ you do this weekend or on your day or whatever and and one of them would say yeah you know I was walking around Greenwich and the other one FaceTime me and was like where are you I’m coming and then the wives were like we’re coming too and they all just they all just end up meeting up and walking it’s like no one was even invited to this they’re just they’re just intruding on each other’s plans all the time they’re just hanging out so I think it’s very very genuine how close that crew is I think in a lot of cases there could be jealousy and there could be stuff that changes in terms of like you know somebody used to be the star and now they’re the role player vice versa and that could cause friction maybe it happens for all we know however I don’t haven’t really seen any evidence of it happening I’ve kind of only seen evidence of of the opposite I think those guys are genuinely really close and I don’t think there’s any way the Knicks would have leaned into this as hard as they did if that weren’t the case right too bad too bad I was trying to tear them apart from the inside before they even started together but uh makes sense yeah I think the only guy that’s uh a little bit upset by this is tibs because he can’t play everybody 48 minutes I mean there’s just not enough minutes to go around there too many players there’s too many players uh oh he’ll find a way he’ll find a way yeah I I do wonder about he’ll play seven overtimes if they have to tibs always finds a way what’s a guy like Tom tho even do in the offseason like how does he relax just work yeah just work I think he I think he goes I think he goes goes away somewhere to an undisclosed location yeah doesn’t tell anybody and I think he goes away somewhere but I imagine when he’s away I think he’s just watching film and game planning he spends a ton of it legitimately just at the Knicks practice facility he’s there all the time it’s it’s the legends about tibs always being at the practice facility they’re very true and they are yearround you hear players say like I went into the practice facility on July 88th to get shots up and tibs was just sitting there in his office and then I left and I was there till 10 p.m. and tibs was still sitting there in his office and I just saw him in the office the whole time and it’s like he is just always there he really is I’ve heard a rumor that he works at a Mike and IES Factory in the offseason cuz Josh Hart just loves Mike and IES jelly beans they’re not jelly beans I shouldn’t call them that they’re candy um that’s the thing going around that the because things are just so dead right now on on the in social media there’s a rumor there’s a rumor that that’s where tibs is making Mike X that’s just a bad joke and a bad with NBA with NBA salaries where they are for for head coaches clearly he needs a side hustle good call he got he’s got to appease got to appease Josh Hart Josh Hart and his addiction to Mike and IES is next level step Stephan Bondi had the best Josh Hart Mike and Ikes anecdote where he wrote in a story earlier this year that when part was at the bubble cuz he’s gotten like a gazillion root canals unsurprisingly cuz he eats Mike and when he was at the bubble he had some sort of mouth thing I forget if it was a root canal or something else he had a crown put in maybe and they had told him you can’t have soft candies you can’t have chewy candies because you just had this and he went to the bubble and right when he got to the bubble he said screw it I’m addicted to Mike and IES I need Mike and IES had a Mike and ie ripped out his crown and then had to and they were in the bubble and they weren’t like bringing in a dentist for an elective Crown Surgery and so he had to go through the bubble without his crown just with a massive toothache the whole time because he couldn’t stay away from Mikan knes so tibs might really be you know have some sort of Advantage by working at mik that’s amazing that is a great story that I never heard of from Stephen Bon that’s awesome um not awesome cuz yeah yeah a fun story for us for us absolutely uh let’s get to uh The Bigs the fact that Isaiah hartenstein is gone from the New York Knicks after starting for many of the postseason Games Mitch Robinson obviously filling in at Center I know you’ve gone into detail what the Knicks may do to fill out that backup center spot whether pretus atua comes back or they go and get another big I’m curious if there are any just this this idea that well we don’t have Isaiah hartenstein that’s that’s such a Negative in in in the Lo room like if that is just something that will be some sort of problem for them or is there number one I’m sure there’s faith in Precious Chua and others but is there a world where Julius Randall plays backup five minutes or or one of the OG or muel Bridges is is that a possibility I think it’s a possibility I don’t think it’s a thing that we’re going to see baked into the roster construction though like I think they will have some sort of conventional backup five that got Jericho Sims on the roster right now my guess is Sims will enter the year as the third string Center I think that’s probably the preference and I think most likely is like like you just said precious aoua is still a free agent I think the Knicks are very open to bringing him back depending on the price the way that they constructed the bridges trade it gave them a good amount of wiggle room under the second apron so they’re able to sign a Chua and they’re even able to use their taxpayer midlevel exception on top of signing a Chua so they can they can they have the money they can make some moves and I do anticipate some sort of more conventional backup five even though a you is not necessarily like your conventional super big rim protect five he’s someone who can play the five I do expect someone like that to be in that slot that being said I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw small ball more than we ever have from tibs with this year’s team and part of the reason why is because of OG an anobi and people talk all the time about Randall at the five lineups and I think ultimately what it would be is even if randle’s out there it would more be anobi at the five lineups because that’s what’s giving you the versatility anobi and maybe bridges that was something that tibs was I think that was something that tibs spoke about as something he wanted to try out more during the regular season last year but he wanted to get anobi situated first and what happened was anobi came over on the trade played his first game January 1 anded up getting hurt in January missed a month and a half came back from elbow surgery got hurt again came back just in time for the playoffs got hurt again and so tibs wanted to get him situated in his new role and then start trying out some other stuff which maybe would have had him guarding more fives playing small ball with him at the five against certain types of lineups not all the time not as a regular thing but more than tibs will normally go to that kind of stuff and he never really got the opportunity to do it we saw it some during the Philadelphia Series in the first round of the playoffs they closed game four with auua and anobi at the four and the five and and what really happened was auua was guarding guys in the perimeter and in anobi was guarding Joel embiid and I think we might see stuff like that pop up a little bit more especially if the Knicks start to have success because it’s not just OG there now it’s also Bridges and if you can have a lineup with Bridges and anobi and whether it’s Steven shenzo or Hart like these are good defensive players guys who can defend the Rimer who are perimeter who are good help ERS who are strong team Defenders who are good at getting into passing Lanes it could be really stifling and offensively if you have that lineup say minus Mitchell Robinson plus Dante devant chenzo offensively that could just be insane and you kind of have Julius Randall as your as your five offensively in terms of setting screens creating threes on the short roll going to the basket out of the short roll and you have all this shooting and cutting around him so I think offensively lineup could be absolutely Dynamic I think it’s possible that we see it more though I don’t think that will prevent them from bringing in a more conventional backup center behind Mitchell Robinson that’s what I wanted to hear I wanted to hear some of that OG combo with Mikel Bridges at times because OG was so good in moments against Joel embiid when he was able to to fight through and unfortunately got health or hurt again and I really hope that doesn’t happen to OG again as it usually does usually does with with Raptors fans I know I know it it was uh it was a talk after he was dealt he was dealt because he got injured and he does get injured from time to time well Fred just mentioned he got injured three times last year he did just on the Knicks um so yeah OG at the five I think is a great idea and you know the Knicks to me are being built very similar to the way the Celtics are built with their perimeter defense kind of feeding into their interior defense you think about the backup big for the Celtics it’s Al Horford he’s more of a switch big than a rim protector just like a Chua is more of a switch big than a rim protector you can see the outlines there and of course they’ll sign Taj Gibson at some point you think that’s before or after 2025 I think it’s both okay yeah I think they they sign him in 2025 and then every year after that for when somebody goes down he’s going to come in and play 30 games off the bench I think it’s going to be I think it’s going to be like 2643 and New York’s going to be underwater and Taj is going to be living in a Little Submarine in Where Brooklyn used to be is going to call him and be like you in shape and they’re going to be good to go they’ll be ready to go with hartenstein the Knicks were kind of capped at what they could offer him and that offer got blown out of the water by the Thunder was there any was there any point in time where it seemed like hartenstein might actually come back give the Knicks the discount just to be a part of this team if the discount was only a small discount yeah I think that was on the table you know he talked about in his intro press conference how difficult of a decision that it was for him to take the Thunder offer I think he really loved playing for this team he had a lot of really good friends on this team and he was obviously a really big part of their success the Brunson hartenstein pick and role was so important for them for numerous reasons he had a great defensive season after entering the starting lineup for Mitchell Robinson when Robinson got hurt in December like he he had a really fantastic season for them but once the money grows that large I think it’s like like it’s not like the Knicks entered free agency on July 1st and we’re like man we got a chance with hartenstein right their offer was still out there but I think they knew he was gone well before that uh you know I had reported in the days leading up to free agency that you know they had sensed that he was going to get much bigger offers they weren’t going to be able to compete with and I think they were ready to move on to a plan B at that point so I it kind of depends on how you want to phrase it did hartenstein want to come back I’m sure he did but you know sometimes the money is just just too big yeah 30 million versus what 17 and a half 18 million I think is what the Knicks were going to be able to offer that’s really tough uh to make back especially the first big contract of Haren Stein’s career but you mentioned a couple of times Julius Randall you said he’s still in his 20s he’s a two-time all NBA player and there are definitely times when you watch the Knicks and you’re like they don’t necessarily need uh Julius Randall so you say he’s going to be starting at the four coming in he might see minutes at the back up five depending on how you’re name in the positions there is Randall locked in as a member of this Knicks team here he didn’t go to Villanova so he doesn’t have that wild cat connection uh he was a wild cat at Kentucky different breeds of course but to me Randall seems like a guy who could go either way with the Knicks he could be part of this team going a little bit further or he could be a guy they move to beef up some other spots he’s just a lowercase wild cat on the Court too yeah yeah just just plays like a wild cat slamming oh yeah that’s what wild cats do they spin and they slam everybody everybody knows that everyone who knows anything about cats knows that they spin and they slam I think I think with Randall it’s a little bit more up in the air I can’t say he’s a sure locked in guy and the reason why is because he’s entering the final year of his contract he’s eligible for an extension on August 3rd it’s going to be very interesting to see how that goes but he’s entering the final year of his deal he’s due for a raise the thing with Randall that is so interesting to me and I don’t know how this is going to go but after they got anobi in January he really started to play a different brand of ball the Knicks go 12-2 in those first 14 games when they have you know after they acquire anobi and that’s before Randall dislocates his shoulder and goes down for the year and they’re not just 12-2 against crappy teams they beat some bad teams but they also won in Philadelphia by 36 and that was fully healthy Philadelphia Joel embiid plays in that game they beat Philadelphia by 36 in Philadelphia they beat Denver Denver’s at the end of a road trip but it’s still Denver they beat Denver by 38 they beat Minnesota in that stretch as well and they’re playing beautiful basketball right off the bat offensively there’s movement and there’s cutting and there’s there’s ball movement it’s just it’s just beautiful basketball and defensively they’re basically playing on a string the whole time and I think Randall really bought into it after that first game with anobi Randall just looked like he had found God it was it was a totally different kind of reaction than you’re normally used to seeing from him and he kept repeating that OG was the perfect fit he’s the perfect fit it was it was as if he it hit him like man what a this is the way the game is supposed to be played after he had just been yeah and I don’t want to make it seem like he and RJ Barrett didn’t get along that is absolutely not true at all but I do think he and RJ Barrett had conflicting playing Styles both those guys are kind of you know they’re prone to wanting the ball in their hands and and Barrett is is at his best when he kind of has the ball in his hands and Randall is at his best when he has the ball in his hands and they occupy similar parts of the Court neither is an elite three-point shooter and so there was just on court stuff that didn’t mesh two of them they’re not cats but you know they’re Spinners and Slammers y Spinners and Slammers yeah yeah yeah you can’t have too many Spinners and Slammers that’s right and then and then OG is just like this enthusiastic Pomeranian who’s just like cutting away from the ball and he’s good to go you know and I think Randall saw that I think he really bought in and you watch how he played in January and it wasn’t okay let me get the ball and do my thing here he was making the extra pass he was so important for them as somebody who was able to create threes there’s nobody on that roster who who can facilitate three-pointers the way that he can he gives them a completely different way to create offense too so much of their offense without Randall and this is something that I just I banged this drum all season because I know there were people who were wondering are they better without Julius Randall and I just couldn’t bring myself to say that at all and part of the reason why is because when they don’t have Randall their best way to create three-pointers is just drive and kick drive and kick drive and kick and if they don’t have a three on the first driving kick they’re going to drive into the lane again and they’re going to try to create the three again and if a defense is guarding them well they might struggle to get those shots but what Randall does is he gives them a different sort of way to infiltrate the paint it’s not just on a pick him roll to hartenstein and hartenstein creates out of the short roll and it’s not just on like Josh Hart attacking a close out and then kicking out to somebody what you can do with Randall is you can feed him the ball down low in the post he can create a mismatch he can make the defense come over his way and then he can create threes either on the wing or in the opposite corner and we saw him do that time and time again really effectively and I think that’s something that will be really important to the Knicks offense next year especially with Mikel Bridges and with ogan noi there for the whole time uh he just gives them a different a different element he’s incredibly important and and maybe they do see some sort of reason to move on from him but they’re not going to do it to get worse I’ll tell you that much Julius Rand is definitely a player that basketball fans just kind of overlooked after he was gone and just didn’t realize what he had done the first four months of five months uh of the Season he was absolutely fantastic and you just going through everything uh Fred just makes me realize that everybody’s going to overlook the New York Knicks going into next season I we haven’t even talked about Jaylen Bronson there’s just going to be guys as basketball fans that we Overlook with this team uh it just happens on the tweeters and the social medias that is going to happen um so I just want to get from you a man who covers the team your opinion of where the Knicks rank amongst the Eastern Conference teams right now it’s hard to say without knowing Philadelphia’s whole roster I loved the Caleb Martin signing for them the other day I think he’s he’s so good for them bringing back Kelly UB I think was a very necessary move I would say I would slot the Knicks ahead of Phil Philadelphia though for now I I I that’s subject to to change but I would for now just because Paul George and Joel and bead’s health is always going to be a problem or at least a question heading into the postseason and I think the Knicks right now have the deeper roster like you look at the bench lineups the Knicks are going to be able to throw out there in the postseason regardless of who the backup center is they might go to an eight-man rotation in the postseason and their second unit could be comprised of just like dece bride Dante dvan chenzo Josh Hart Mel Bridges and OG an anobi the switchability in that lineup the defensive force with that lineup the speed that lineup can play with the shooting in that lineup against second units I could see their reserves if this team is fully healthy and functioning as it can I could see their reserves just destroying other team second units and I think that will help them a ton their starters last year were so good when they had those 14 games of being able to play together I think they were like plus 15 per 100 possessions now you’re adding bridges into the mix I just I see this team being really good maybe Philadelphia is ahead of them uh obviously Boston is is number one that’s the that’s the implied thing but I think the Knicks have as good of a chance as any to meet Boston in the Conference Finals and they’re designed to play the Celtics that’s what they are they they’re locked and loaded with all these defensive minded tough wings and Mitchell Robinson at Center who is a really good rim protector and pick and roll Defender and they’re armed with that in order to go up against the unbelievably versatile Celtics and when you get into a seven game series I don’t think the Knicks would be the favorite order do I think they should be the favorite in that series but you get to a seven game series and it’s like anything can happen and I think the Knicks have have built themselves to go up against that team yeah I think you nailed it Celtics are clearly the class of the conference will remain to be and then the Knicks versus Sixers is going to be so interesting because the a just played an awesome playoff series against each other people would probably say the best series of the playoffs so far and they’re going into this season with like totally different ways of building their team the Sixers they probably have better high-end Talent they got a Joel embiid the guy’s in MVP if he’s healthy he’s there they basically got three giant Max contracts and embiid Paul George and Maxi then they got to fill out the rest just filling it out however they can using their exceptions and then you got the Knicks who have built around friendship depth chemistry and continuity their contracts are all pretty much Bargains but they’ve got more guys making higher dollars so it’s just cool to see two different ways about building a team to try and knock off uh the Champs we will see how it turns out another guy I want to ask you about Fred pacom daier this was a surprise to me because he got drafted late in the first round and everybody’s like oh this is great for the they’re saving some money on their draft pick they’re not going to have to use them on a roster spot and then like 3 seconds later they’re like actually I’m coming to the NBA right now is this guy really going to be playing and is he any good you really threw a curveball there yeah and you were like there’s one more thing I got to ask you didn’t think it was G be pacome D pacome no no I didn’t at all I never saw that coming I never saw that pacing so yeah I I I think part of it is you guys you guys bring out such a stupid side of me get him out of here J so I I think I think part of it look they they actually signed daier to to a cheap deal for his draft slot I mean we can get really nerdy and talk about they they sign up to 80% they signed up to 80% of the rookie scale which which is pretty damn rare the last first rounder designed for 80% of the rookie scale and the way it works is there’s this suggested salary called the rookie scale for all players drafted in the first round and you can sign for as much as 120% of that salary and for as little as 80% of that salary and players almost always sign for 120% yeah and daier signed for 80% which saved the Knicks about $900,000 of room under the second apron for this year he’s the first guy to do that since Kevin Porter Jr in 2019 before that it was Andre Robertson in 2013 and and uh before that it was I mean I’m sure you guys remember this because it it just took over the world with the news it was Yan Mimi in 2007 oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and you were covering OKC when Andre Robertson was signed to that deal in 2013 is that right did I it was before I was covering OKC but I did Cover Andre Robertson and I covered Yan Mimi in Washington great stuff so so you want hear an incredible Yan Mimi fact yes more than anything did you know that Yan Mimi is the businessman who is responsible for brokering Stak and shak’s entrance into France yeah I did know that no I didn’t isn’t that amazing St and Shake into France I didn’t see that coming period period I didn’t think St and Shack would just be a thing in France yeah it wasn’t until Yan Mimi brought it there I guess he played in Indiana a while so they’re all over the Midwest the Sho fries Smash and I think they started I think they started in Indian and yam Mimi loved Steak and Shake I was like I have a business idea we’re bringing Steak and Shake to France and opened up four Steak and Shake franchises in France that’s a great yamim is the businessman who made that happen well I hope somebody who from the NBA goes to one of them when they’re in Paris you know to pay tribute to Yan maheni because I’m sure they’re always talking about it they’re like man I haven’t had a chance to go to Yan’s Shak and Steak and Shake yet but yeah I mean I thought Pac was going to be the deepest cut but man y me yeah so my point is when you make 80% of the rookie scale you can make it back by opening up your own State no so so so daier they knew daer did not want to be drafted and stashed I think that was something that was kind of kind of out there in The Ether uh I didn’t know about it till after he was drafted but I learned later that it was something that was out there in The Ether like he didn’t want to be drafted and stashed and I think part of the reason why he’s willing to take this money is because this is a team that is is fine with not stashing him I don’t think he’s going to play any amount of meaningful minutes this year I anticipate him spending he’s only 18 years old very raw I anticipate him spending a lot of time in the g-league maybe he’ll spend some time with the Knicks but you know unless it’s just because they have an unbelievable amount of injuries and he has to play I I don’t see him getting any sort of consequential playing time at any point this season uh and so you know we’ll see we’ll see exactly how how it goes but I think he’s more of a long-term guy yeah and I guess because he gets paid that’s all you get 80% uh would [ __ ] doesn’t happen very often in the NBA speaking of free agent signing let’s get to the rest of the league here Fred you mentioned Caleb Martin signing with the Sixers surprising deal good deal for him there’s a ton that have happened buddy hee going to the Golden State Warriors two for 21 we got the frons monster deal uh with the Orlando Magic and I this is a curveball here for so I’ll I’ll start it with Trey if that’s okay uh because this is not Aur this was not prepared for you to ask you the top remaining free agent because there’s just there ain’t that many left um so we’ll go to Trey first who is your to it’s mostly deep cuts at this point Tas like to me the guy that you could get on a veterans minimum right now who might hope your team the most Kyle Lowry I mean he made a ton of money last year it was pretty solid on the 76 decent in the playoffs but he ain’t going he ain’t going to be making $30 million uh this year but he could be helpful for the right team that needs a point guard even the Sixers for nothing minimum back why not yeah I guess the Knicks might be in the mix there since he’s a villain NOA guy and then here’s four other ones that I think can actually play in rotations Marquel folz tus Jones Luke Canard and a guy I wanted to ask you about Fred Paul Reed it seemed to me that people thought Paul Reed was going to become the Knick’s backup center once the Sixers uh decided to release him he’s an energy guy he’s not that much different I don’t think than uh precious auua is as a player but is Paul Reed uh somebody who could be a New York Nick I can’t I can’t say no he’s a really good offensive rebounder and they love good offensive rebounders at that position uh I do he does have probably my favorite jump shooting form in the NBA it’s it’s fantastic it’s so upright and it kind of looks like a T-Rex shooting a jump shot it’s so enjoyable I love it uh I I will say I think with that position they tend to skew defensive and while Chua is not necessarily a rim protector because he’s like 68 and he doesn’t have that size he is a solid reliable switchable guy who can play the four play the five and who I know tibs has respect in his defensive abilities uh I think Reed is not the defensive player that auua is he’s a better offensive player he’s a better offensive rebounder auua is a solid offensive rebounder just the numbers don’t put him on the same level as Reed so I think it’ll probably depend more on number one familiarity how much do the Knicks put how much stock do the Knicks put into the fact that they already know pre AA they already like prua they know he fits into their locker room and all that other stuff and then it’s also going to come down to which style do they prefer because whichever one you prefer I think you can make the argument that one guy is better than the other or vice versa like I think I think it probably just depends on what you prefer in in a player you know right um yeah there’s some some tiny names that have signed just to go through the ones that have actually been signed Dario SAR is going to be jokic’s backup essentially in Denver a two-year $10.6 million deal with the Denver Nuggets PJ doer a former Denver Nugget is signing with Minnesota Timberwolves he got that relationship with Tim connley speaking of the Minnesota Timberwolves they signed Joe Engles kind kind to replace Kyle Anderson as your make everything happen type of guy off the bench also very slow also very old um yeah KY Anderson ain’t old just he’s just Engles is just old could shoot the three a little bit better than KY Anderson and he was really good last year um but yeah that’s an interesting signing for the Wolves to fill out the bench there uh a little bit but yeah guys are guys are being signed uh Alec Burks your Nick’s man last year uh signed with the Miami Heat as well he called I guess does he have heat culture here’s here’s a question so far for the heat I don’t think no no but can he provide heat culture Fred what do you think I think he’ll fit with the heat culture I don’t think the heat culture is very different from the tibs culture he’s a he’s a he’s a two-time tiser so I think he’ll be just fine oh good point two tiser that’d be a great list of players two time tibs I mean Butler is on there uh Taj Gibson is on there Taj forever more like six time TI Alex B Rose Derrick Rose he he might be a three- time tipser he is R you know who else is a three-time tipser Taj Gibson is is Taj Gibson’s technically like a four-time tipser yeah yeah I don’t know how you count the the Stinson New York You could argue he’s a four-time tipser Ryan archu diako is a three-time tipser I think big time great stats uh one guy who’s not a notime tipser but I saw you mentioned this on a podcast it’s true that that Luke cornette intentionally wanted to be the first free agent signed this Summer that is what I was told I was I was I was told that because because look it doesn’t make any sense otherwise no so I because he can negotiate the rules of change you can negotiate with your own team as soon as the finals are over so it doesn’t make any sense that a guy resigning with his own team would be the first deal exactly at 6 o’ so I was like what the hell happened here and I know Luke cornette has a reputation for being a funny guy yeah and and a person was like yeah he thought it would be funny if he was the the first deal right at free agency so he’s right I think I think I look I didn’t exactly uh go a pursue that story with the same amount of journalistic vigor as I might a trade and get various sources all the way at the top however I want to believe that’s true I was told it was true and I think I’m just going to believe it’s true it’s true to me it should become a thing like somebody should every year want to be the first one like Jimmy Butler’s the only guy who shows up at uh media days right now in costume but I could see that catching on I think this is kind of similar like who’s going to be the first announced signing who’s going to put their team just a little bit at risk of being busted for tampering thank you to Luke cornette for taking the first step that guy’s very funny uh the next thing you got to get to the bottom of Fred though is uh who did that Nicks fart in the playoffs because we’re getting tiny tiny pieces of the story here and now it’s just people coming out and saying it wasn’t me it wasn’t me it wasn’t me uh you think you’ll ever get to the literal bottom of that one oh I know who it was oh I know exactly who it was I’ve just elected not to share because I’m because while I’m a reporter I’m not a snitch yeah yeah that’s true so true nobody wants to be told on new the news the news is the fart that’s the news that’s that’s the responsible thing that I have to put out there the newsworthiness is who did it says you I don’t have to says you moving on to a place where I’m sure there are plenty of farts that will happen in Late July and early August because that’s the home of Steak and Shake it’s France where the Olympics will happen it’s got to it’s got to Stak and Shake I I when I see those doors I don’t walk in because I think I don’t want to fart uh I just don’t want to be clogged up by Steak and Shake uh but on to the Olympics here we know the final four teams playing at the men’s Olympic tournament they happened just this past weekend in four different tournaments so joining us Canada France Serbia Germany Australia Japan and South Sudan as we already knew are Greece yasur Yani Brazil Spain and Puerto Rico uh in four very fun games actually I’d love to take you through all of them if you want but first let’s hear any uh any random comments about the those four teams joining the Olympics uh Trey the two things that stood out to me were giannis’s reaction to going to the Olympics for the very first time that was very cool to see he looks awesome right now this guy is dominating we know that he was out of the playoffs for the bucks so I guess you got a little bit of rest time not going as deep into the postseason uh could be a Giannis Revenge season coming next year I thought that was very cool and then Jos Alvarado very similar the way he was celebrating in Puerto Rico’s upset of Lithuania had his daughters out there then they presented him with the MVP trophy they’re all dancing and growing crazy those were uh two Great Moments and yeah I mean I think it’s cool I mean we were going to get a great player out of the Greece region right it could have been Luca uh but jannis bounced them but anytime you’re getting MVPs to play in the Olympics awesome yeah this will be janis’s first Olympics the last time Greece played basketball in one yanis was just 13 years old back in 2008 so y was crying then they took a great photo with their family as well Greece joins Australia Canada and Spain in group Bay at Paris in 2024 other little notes Brazil over lvia in lvia was big for them that was the only win to happen you know on the road in the team’s uh tournament country uh and Bruno kaboko hit a monstrous shot at the end of a first quarter grabbed a rebound and then from his own home three-point line was able to hit a contested three and his team just celebrated like crazy for that guy that’s pretty cool to see old guy Marcelo hueras being played in the Olympics for Brazil a g Santos hel Netto will be on Brazil as they join excuse me Japan Germany and France in group b and then as you said Jose Alvarado who was awesome he had 23 points and six rebounds to finish off Lithuania he also had 29 earlier in this uh tournament and he was doing his dancing I mean Jose Alvarado he’s got a little bit of the Evan forier turns into a All-Star type of player here in these types of tournaments so Puerto Rico will be there in the US’s uh group along with Serbia and South Sudan um so I just wanted to get a little bit of background on the US national team as they undergo their get together uh it’s happening right now in Las Vegas uh they’re getting ready uh for the the tournament just wanted to hear who you think is starting for this team I mean they’re just so damn good uh team’s pretty loaded oh my God yeah they’re benches loaded it’s Nixie it’s not quite Nixie but it’s it’s I mean it’s amazing they’ve got so many MVPs on that team Team USA looking a lot like the Knicks right now I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody say that see a video of all of Team USA trying to spin a ball on their finger you know Harlem glow trout style I can’t believe stephh Curry can’t spin the ball at his finger interesting he’s literally like I can do a lot with a basketball but I can’t do that all right Meatloaf I think Steph starts though uh you know his coach is is the coach so I think Steph is locked in and then I think KD and Lebron are locked in as well KD I guess is suffering through a calf injury right now though doesn’t seem to be very serious um more of a precautionary measure for him but he’s the Team USA all-time leading scorer I think he’ll start LeBron he’s a legend I think he will start so the two questions are like basically who starts at the two Anthony Edwards was going around at mini camp saying he’s the number one option even though he’s playing with all these Hall of Famers and then so the question there would be Drew holiday Edwards or Booker and then at Center I think it’ll be embiid they went underwent the entire recruiting process but I suppose it’s possible Anthony Davis is the guy who gets the start at Center I think it’ll be embiid though another curve ball for you Fred uh any thoughts here on the Team USA SL Olympics that we will be seeing this month yeah I mean I don’t know if this is what’s actually going to happen I I feel like it’ll be Edwards or Booker at the two but I would be paying serious consideration to starting Drew holiday like he he is going to give you so much more help defensively that you’re not necessarily gonna get next to Steph and Edwards can can really guard and Booker can really shoot and he might give you that extra off ball shooting that would help but I just think man holiday just being able to basically play the role that he played for the Celtics and just be able to guard legitimately everybody and switch on to anyone and and and maintain that really physical style that’s played internationally like that that would be hard for me to turn away from even though I’m not totally convinced that’s what they’ll end up doing right it it feels like somebody’s not going to play minutes and when you have this many MVPs and this many incredible players I guess it could be someone like Drew or Devin Booker I it’s hard to say really uh with all these former MVP is playing extremely well right now Jason Tatum also not with the team because of personal reasons along with Kevin Durant who’s dealing with an ankle injury but yeah totally should be totally fine so then there’s 10 players right there right there right now and I just see these lineups of LeBron Tyrese halberton Anthony Davis babio and Anthony Edwards against Steph embiid Leonard Devin Booker and Drew holiday that’s just amazing a good team a really good team good team kawhai was hitting threes kawhai apparently hit four threes in his scrimmage that’s good too and a full participant in everything is good as well how are you feeling about the Canada draw group a it looks like a tough one Canada Spain Greece Australia the Canada’s Canada I think they uh should be the favorites as as as strong as a term that is considering Canada in an olympic tournament I I think they they should be the favorites Greece looked really really good uh in the way they beat Croatia and Slovenia that’s for sure um but I think Canada should feel like they’re stronger than Australia and Spain uh and just feel like that’s going to be a very very very good game Canada and Greece I’m not just saying that because they’re my my two nationalities I just saying that’s uh that’s going to be fun um so yeah I think K should walk in with a lot of lot of confidence um in that one it’ll be fun tournament um before we go we got a little tweet of the night tweet of the night wow TW uh tweet of the Night Comes to us from the rock and roll Duo Tenacious D Jack Black and Kyle Gas they presented Drew holiday with his Tenacious D MVP award what I think they said it was the second time they’ve ever given this award but it looks like Drew holiday is in one of these guys houses he is much taller than both of them and Kyle and Jack gave him a trophy that looks like a penis and balls Tass I don’t know if you noticed that that’s the Tenacious D award yes I did notice that would you probably display that in your home of course where would you put that if it was in your home Fred right on the mantle right on the mantle right on the mantle easily I I don’t even have a mantle I would I would actually renovate the home to create a mantle to put it on I mean Drew holiday so dry saying that he loves the trophy and then just just saying with absolutely no smile at all and look how long that shaft is is is incredible it’s just I have watched that video five times now it is so funny him commenting on how long the shaft is and how bronze the balls are so is so bronzy is just it’s phenomenal stuff well done well we want gold balls after the Olympics Drew holiday and the stream team is saying here that apparently it was Drew’s house he just invited those guys over to give him an award yeah la is weird huh pretty weird place yeah I thought that was spectacular that he was talking to them that he was talking to Tenacious D and then it went to a whole other level as Fred just explained everything that he described in his home um last question for you Fred since you talked about the mantle being built in your home is your home in sty vent H uh you brought out the ponds I figured I should I should bring it back um and that’s just we just wrap it up um I’m not forcing you to tell us where your home is by any means tell us your [Music] address I think I think I’m gonna sty me that question before telling you my address styed great puns here uh today thank you very much for joining us Fred um I don’t know if you’re going to be in Vegas uh this weekend but we’ll be doing a live show um not forcing to be on the show but just an FYI we we’re going to be doing one on Friday join us if you’re around at the level up MGM Grand it’s a going to turn into a podcast afterward as well and uh Mato will be joining us that’s for sure what your favorite thing to do in Vegas Fred argue with you about Harry Potter yeah there we go going to have to brainstorm a new podcast uh over the summer I was actually another another dumb question I was going to ask you we just had a bunch of uh you know festivities with July 4th last week what goes into the perfect fruit salad feel like you see one at a barbecue every now and then well it can’t be anything too watery or that becomes too soggy and it can’t be too much melon because then you look cheap so I think you’re going to need some a mix of at least two berries in there preferably ones that don’t get crushed a couple of melons and then you’re going to have to throw a pineapple in there you’re going to have to throw a mango in there for some tropicality and then maybe you throw in one extra type of fruit in order to slice things up just one extra dealer’s Choice one extra dealer’s Choice my friend better not be a mandarin orange those are weird to me when they’re in there so floppy very sloppy and not the right taste that’s great it’s not worthwhile that was wonderful how many fruit you actually threw into the fruit salad yeah that’s chuny that was very nice of you yeah cuz I think at first you go ahead you need diversity you need diversity right but I thought you said melon wasn’t going to be in there cuz you look too cheap and then you threw it in there you don’t want to overdo it with the melon you don’t want a honeydew and a cantaloupe and a watermelon that’s that’s overdone you see all these these pre put together fruit salads at at at the grocery store or whatever and it’s it’s a base it’s like a rice bowl but the rice is honeydew cantaloupe watermelon and then they put like four berries on the top and like one little tiny slice of of pineapple and then you look into it and it’s just melon and they’re tricking you they’re deceitful with their fruit and you don’t wants to be someone who is deceitful with their fruit lest you lose all of your fruit related credibility it’s a risk not all melon we want one melon two berries dealer’s choice tropicality this is how you build a team Fred is like the New York Knicks depth depth of fruit I’m like the Tenacious D trophy is a lot of [Laughter] depth and full of credibility as well so you can find his stuff Fred ability fril I’m in on it too it’s on the athletic and obviously uh as we mentioned off the top he pods as well in a couple different places Fred thank you so much for joining us always thrilled to come on with you guys and as usual we got to do a Clipper Bros you heard it here first have a great time turn up love you guys awesome thanks for joining us and remember Steak and Shake in French steak at Shake just steak at Shake well I think it’s pronounced a shake ET is pronounced steak a shake yeah that’s right we we all right embrace the day people [Music]

On Mon.’s No Dunks, we talk about the Knicks’ offseason with The Athletic’s Fred Katz. Why did New York give up so much for Mikal Bridges? How long will Julius Randle stay with the team? Where does New York rank in the Eastern Conference? Plus top remaining free agents, four more nations qualifying for the Olympic basketball tournament, who will start for Team USA and Tenacious D meeting Jrue Holiday.

0:00 Classic loading
0:20 Cold open
0:29 Show starts
1:40 The Athletic’s Knicks beat writer Fred Katz
3:50 How Mikal Bridges was acquired and how he he fits with Knicks
13:10 Who will start for the Knicks?
21:05 Impact of Isaiah Hartenstein’s departure?
28:45 Is Julius Randle a Knicks lifer?
34:30 Where do Knicks rank in the Eastern Conference?
41:36 Top remaining NBA free agent?
49:00 12 teams in Men’s Olympics Basketball Tournament finalized
52:40 Who starts for Team USA at Olympics?
56:05 Tweet of the Night

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