Top 25 NBA Players: Kyrie Irving is still ELITE, why De’Aaron Fox is underrated | Hoops Tonight
Jason Timpf begins his rankings of the Top 25 NBA Players with Kyrie Irving of the Dallas Mavericks and De’Aaron Fox of the Sacramento Kings. Jason breaks down both players’ biggest strengths and weaknesses and shares what he expects during the 2024 NBA season. Will Kyrie and Luka Doncic keep the Mavericks in NBA Finals contention? Is there another level for De’Aaron Fox and the Kings?
Players 25-24:
00:00 – Introduction to Player Rankings
13:00 – Jason’s Tiers for Rankings
15:36 – Players in Contention for Top 25
17:35 – #25: Kyrie Irving
26:17 – #24: De’Aaron Fox
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42 Comments
Hey Jason, I love the format, criteria breakdown, and pretty much 99% of the vid. My only glaring issue with the list is the lack of honorable mention for Rudy Gobert. I understand he has severe offensive limitations, but in a vacuum he’s a DPOY caliber player(doesn’t mean he should or shouldn’t win it or is who I believe to be the best defender in the world definitively), and without any on-ball creating usage he’s not bleeding value to a teams offense. I don’t even believe he has to be top 25, he can be 45 for all I care, but he does need to be mentioned as one of the players capable to make the list, especially if players like Dejounte Murray are capable of making the list. Rudy’s a walking top 5-10 defense in the regular season on any given team, very durable, offensively he can be hard to build around but defensively it doesn’t take much help in order to sustain a good team defense with Gobert(2018-2022 for example), the only criteria point he misses completely in my opinion is not hitting his ceiling enough. He fits 2-3 out of your 4 criteria points.
Love the content, keep up the great work!
TOP 25:
Tier 1 –
1. jok
2. giannis
these guys are unstoppable. they have a huge impact on winning even on their worst nights. this is my first time putting jok > giannis. this is mostly based off availability
Tier 1.5 –
3. embiid
impossible to rank. when healthy hes up there w jokic n giannis. when hes banged up or out of shape his off nights look like the off nights from the guys in tier 2
Tier 2 –
4. jt
5. sga
6. luka
these are all #1s on a title team level guys. all of them are hugely impactful but have their flaws. jt lacks shooting consistency. sga lacks versatility on both ends (pretty heliocentric on O and not great at poa across positions defensively). luka lacks versatility on offense (extremely heliocentric) and lacks damn near everything on defense (is only average on ball v big n relatively slower offensive players)
Tier 3 –
7. ad
8. bron
9. kd
10. steph
all great players but for 1 reason or another they cant shoulder the load of being a full-time #1. ad just doesnt have the offensive bag scoring or playmaking. the others are wrestling father time. they can be good enough for the #1 role over short periods but cant sustain it night in night out for 82 games + post szn
tier 4 –
11. book
12. j brown
13. ant
14. dmitch
15. j brunson
all these guys have flashed #1 upside on a title team but don't do it consistently enough to be considered even a part-time #1 on a title team. book lacks size and doesn't create enough easy buckets – relies on pull ups too much. jaylen brown is a great versatile defender n scores like a #1 but lacks the playmaking chops. ant lacks great shot selection, playmaking chops, and is a lil lazy defending off ball. dmitch also relies on pull ups too much n isnt great on defense. brunson doesnt apply enough rim pressure n is not great on defense.
tier 5
16. wemby
17. zion
18. bam
19. haliburton
20. kawhi
these are guys that have briefly shown #1 upside but lack availability (zion hali kawhi) OR extremely high level defensive guys w/ a secondary/tertiary offensive skillset(wemby n bam).
tier 6
21. kat
22. siakam
23. fox
24. kyrie
25. jimmy
these guys all have underrated impact on winning but arent #1 options by any means. kat siakam n kyrie are clearly #2s but have skillsets that greatly impact winning – kat spaces bigs n attacks mismatches, siakam is a versatile defender n great mismatch attacker, kyrie a deadly efficient 3 level scorer. fox is cast as a #1 but doesnt quite have enough impact to win in that role. jimmy is versatile n fronts like a number 1 in moments but isnt available, eats mainly off opportunities in margins, doesnt create easy looks in iso or pnr and therefore burns out in the playoffs when hes asked to carry an offense full time (jimmy has had big series but he has led his team in scoring in many of the series he's won over his two finals runs)
Hey Jason, love the show. For the most part, I agreed with the majority your top 40 ish though there were a few names that I would leave out as noticably worse than the others – names within that 25-35 range that I would probably hear and say they're fringe top 25 players. The big name I noticed you left out was Ja. Is this because he didn't play last season? Because considering that your criteria lists winning the title next season as the big goal, and considering that when healthy Ja was an MVP candidate if I were to construct a team to win a chip Ja would probably make my top ten. Love your videos, keep up the good work
I appreciate you explaining your ranking and reasons… but you don’t have to do that bro… People are going to hate no matter what…
Hey Jason. Some advice to your point about tiers. I’d highly suggest using tiermaker or any tier list creator to help us see how you’re placing the players and keeping the video more engaging 🙂 love your content always ❤
I love that Jason had to warn the soft viewers in the first half of the video cause he knows y’all get too much into your feelings. Didn’t work cause I already see ppl crying, but it’s just funny 😂
Juries on the short list of players that can offensively give to you in almost any way.On ball, off ball, from all three levels.Its Kyrie,kd,d book, and curry.
Fox too low
I can almost guarantee you that LBJ, KD, Anthony Davis, and Steph Curry will all be in his top 10 🤦🏿♂️
Great work as usual.
You're preparing people for steph at 11, we see you xD
We'll just have to remember you prerecorded the video before the end of the Olympics games ^^
Mailbag: who do you think is better pound for pound a 6,6 Cp3 or 6,6 AI
kyrie was 50-40-90 playing next to the most ball dominant player and is a much better defender than fox as we just saw in the playoffs.. what real argument does fox have over kyrie?
I still need to see a glimpse cavs kyrie nest ssn especially against the celtics
Suns in 5. Yeah i care what someone who predicted that thinks the Top 25 players in the NBA are….lmao
It’s so funny cause this format is solely to block out Tatum going up into top 5 based off a championship lmfao
Once you get about 15 minutes in you realize defense is considered. Its literally half the game. Just make the list Top 25 offensive players. What a joke.
Great video excited to see how these guys look this season especially Kyrie with the added spacing of Thompson. The fox fit with a guy who likes to operate in the mid range with the derozen and sabonis will be interesting but sometimes talent Trumps all.
It would be interesting seeing why you ranked a player over another player instead of doing an independent analysis on their abilities and lack thereof without really comparing them to the player you ranked them above. Personally, I agree with Fox over Kyrie. Kyrie is definitely a better shot creator and offball player, but I believe he tends to need the ball for longer to get to his spots, while Fox is much quicker at getting to his spots. This allows Fox to have more time for additional decision making and also makes the offense less stagnant which is definitely a greater necessity from a #1 option. Some insight like this for each ranking would be pretty cool
Jaylen brown is way better than Devin booker. Booker is overrated from 3 (check the stats), average athlete and that’s generous, below average defender (don’t care that he tried hard against euroleaguers in the Olympics). Find it hard to phantom you’d think that’s easier to build around then the two way wing who is an s-tier athlete
just started the video. no doubt LeBalco will be much higher due to his faux gold Olympics medal
i 100% do not be live there are 25 players better than kyrie
I love your insights but I believe you're going to have to go back on something you said in previous years. In previous years you said you awarded the number one slot to the best player on the best team. I can't imagine you could, with a serious face, place Jason Tatum as the #1 player in the world though.
You better have Fox over Sabonis
“Luka was just as destructive to their defense….” You mean the defense that held Boston to 20 PPG below their season average? I mean I know that it looks bad when players go around him, but isn’t the whole point of your defense to limit the points of the other team? It’s amazing how many people act like Boston was running all over them when they average106 in the series.
May I suggest you use a tier list format for your rankings, it's honestly better and provides more in depth analysis than a simple number list
Kyrie at 25 is crazy no explanation needed
I’ll put money up that the 11th guy he was talking about it is KD, as a Kd fan myself I’m struggling to make a case for him
I just don't understand how you think LeBron can get through a full playoff at this point as a top five player. He looked fantastic in the Olympics but that was not as much as a grinder as the conference semifinals/finals. Even in the Olympics he was losing steam by the end of the gold medal game (once again not a slight, he is 39, it is incredible how well he played). LeBron got away with some cruise control in 2023 and really wasn't top 5 LeBron until he realized the Nuggets were not going to let him rest, without Davis there is no way he even gets to the most competitive sweep in NBA history.
I think you are greatly underestimating how much of a buzzsaw the NBA playoffs are especially after an NBA season (and for the Lakers a play in). You see a bunch of young players run up and not realize what they are getting into. I think there are two levels, the physical which is second and third round and mental buzzsaw in the finals itself. I think Ant ran into the first one last year and Luka ran into the second. LeBron obviously knows hence the cruise control in 2023 (in 2024 he knew the Nuggets would crush him if he didn't try).
I would add having this playoff experience to rankings because I think it is important for players to learn this as well as additional durability (think about ll the players who didn't make through the playoff grinder). Even Jordan had to learn about this. Ant is better for experience it and possibly Luka. I suppose it is a plus that LeBron knows this. I also think this helped Curry in 2022 a lot. There is definitely something to a superstar getting to the finals and experiencing the pacing.
lol funny how Tatum wins and the criteria changes away from “Team success”. Kinda hard to ignore the coincidence
Jason I have to disagree with you for not putting Jrue on the “in contention” list. Dude is one of the few guys with multiple championships on different rosters. Arguably the best perimeter defender in the league. Played more on a stacked USA team than almost anyone else on the contention list. Contributes heavily to winning. Man deserves his flowers, he should get on the POSSIBLE top 25 list.
Jason, I love the content and expertise, but it just sounds like you’re going to over think this. Your choice of Luka last year was justified by his performance this year. He was beat by a better team.
Mailbag:
I have respectful beef with this list.
During the setup for your list rules, you mentioned that you have Devin Booker over Jaylen Brown because you value primary offensive creation over everything else. My issue with this rule is that it only works for the very top offensive engines in the league. If you’re going build a championship offense, you need either a top-5 engine or a down-the-roster talent advantage. Once you get to the “2nd best player on a championship team” phase of this list, you probably already have a primary star and are now looking for a more complimentary guy.
That’s why I’m lower on guys like De’Aaron Fox than you. I don’t want him as my 1st option and if I already have a better initiator, I’d rather invest in a sidekick who defends and plays off-ball better than Fox. I’d take a Paul George over Fox on most championship rosters. He is a phenomenal weak-side help defender. He's a little slower these days, but he still defends big wings well. He spots up efficiently. He makes good quick decisions when swung the ball. He can bail out an offense with ridiculously hard shot-making. And, most importantly, he doesn't loose much value when you put the ball in someone else's hands.
Thanks!
Can you take a second to dive into your decision to consider Jalen Williams in the top 25 but not Gobert? I don’t think Gobert is but he’s definitely a higher impact player than Jalen Williams. Gobert was the foundation of a WCF team built around defense. Also 4 time DPOY.
I would really like a deeper explanation into that.
he's gonna have trae somewhere around 12ish if his ranking is similar to espns or bleacher reports idk which i looked at. but the point is this. who in there right mind thinks trae is better than kai?
dejounte Murray in your top 45, but not Gobert? True hate.
i fuck wit you jason but i swear to god if paul george is left off this list im unsubscribing😭
he snapped his leg in half like a fucking kit kat and came back has lead the league in steals finished top 3 mvp candidate and was JUST the biggest item in free angency being the last left of his entire class. thats grounds for HOF let alone a top 25 list. coming off a near 50/40/90 season and an all star. don’t be one of the brain dead youtubers making this list
My Top 25 in no particular order:
Nikola Jokic
LeBron James
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Stephen Curry
Joel Embiid
Kevin Durant
Jason Tatum
Luka Doncic
Jaylen Brown
Anthony Davis
Devin Booker
Anthony Edwards
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Kawhi Leonard
Dame Lillard
Kyrie Irving
De’Andre Fox
Jamal Murray
Jalen Brunson
Donovan Mitchel
Tyrese Haliburton
Ja Morant
Zion Williamson
Paul George
Jimmy Butler
Only covering 2 dudes in 30 minutes is fine, but from a fan of your videos who comes here solely to enjoy the videos, keep the selections hidden and reveal in the vid. If it was a video covering 10 players with 2 on the thumbnail, who cares. But content watchers like some mystery..
thought on ur coward boss comments on lebron and steph earlier today bub?
So on the one hand you change your entire criteria, but rank the player who went to the finals at 25?
They should include DFox in the 2028 Olympic roster, I mean did you see how deadly Dennis Schroder is in FIBA play? DFox is like the juiced up version of that.
fix ur vids lil bro and audio